Originally posted by twinky:
Nintendo strengthens Wiimote straps.
Edit: eros, sounds like this generation you'll be going with the PSWii combo.
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![[Frown]](frown.gif)
quote:I'm not sure what to think about this tally, assuming it's accurate. I don't think there will be any way to really know which console "won" until several years from now. That said, I don't think it bodes well for the PS3 that the after-market value (is that the right term?) dropped off so quickly despite the incredibly low number of units shipped.
XBOX 360 - 8,096,959
Playstation 3 - 389,200
Wii - 1,218,962
its SO fun!
quote:...I may have just committed to buying a PSP.
I saw an ad on TV about how they released Power Stone for the PSP
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quote:That's fantastic news. I hated the lock-on system, and with the Wiimote, who needs it?
Originally posted by twinky:
Metroid Prime 3 is expected to come out in Q2 of 2007. However, it looks like the developers are abandoning the lock-on targeting system that made the first two Metroid Prime titles so playable.
quote:Yes. The sensitivity isn't my concern, it's the control scheme itself.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
twinky are you aware you can turn up the sensibility of the wiimote so that it moves more smoothly and quickly? I think the default is 3 I turned mine up to 4 and it really does make a difference.
In any case, the link in my 11:38 AM post does contain accurate official U.S. sales figures for the month of November. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
As I said, I'm willing to be convinced in its absence, but if lock-on is there I won't need to be convinced -- I'll be too busy driving to a store to buy a Wii and the game.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
quote:Here's the
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Personally, I preferred Penny Arcade's take on the Wii slipped-out-of-my-hand-and-killed-my-great-aunt hyperbolic insanity.
Unfortunately I can't link to it because it's blocked at work.
quote:--Enigmatic
Nintendo has countered this behavior with a friendly and informative online brochure, whose bipartite wisdom can be expressed as
1. Hold On To The Controller,
and
2. Do Not Let It Go, respectively.
quote:Pretty much. I've had a 360 (stolen by burglars, GRR!) and I'm not ready to commit to the PS3 yet despite my intense love for the playstation series, but the Wii...oh man.
Originally posted by twinky:
Nintendo strengthens Wiimote straps.
Edit: eros, sounds like this generation you'll be going with the PSWii combo.
Now the question is now that I'm up, am I going to go to Best Buy, too. . .
quote:I'd like to read the reviews you mention for SMB that say the controls are crap for most of the minigames. Everything I've read praises it, saying it's far better than using a Gamecube controller, and hence one of the reasons for it being one of the highest rated launch titles for the system.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
twinky, most reviewers consider SMB:BB's controls to be utter garbage in many/most of the minigames. Rayman has some on-rails shooter levels that work really well. CoD got some praise, and Red Steel seems to be emerging as a controls-aren't-too-bad, but-ye-gods,-the-rest-of-the-game-is-bad situation. I think the Wii remote has a good chance of being a good FPS controller... Though we won't really know until someone tries a fixed-reticule scheme.
Also, the 10million shipped (not sold) story was temporarily yanked by Reuters until Microsoft confirms it, so that my not be correct. Check out this Ars thread, 5-6 posts in.
-Bok
quote:This has been a big surprise for us, too. Have you ever tried playing a video game you know decently well against someone who's never touched it? It's pointless, they can't even figure out the controls, much less actually compete. But with the Wii, you hand someone the Wiimote and say "swing it like a racquet" or "hold it and pretend to punch", and they get it. And they're competing right away, maybe even beating the pants off you! We had some friends over to play WiiSports the other night, one of them a serious gamer, the other not, and us both very familiar with the games, and yet even though we were all doing our best, no single person was obviously better than the rest. Maybe at individual sports, no one can hit my pitches in baseball
Of course, part of that was likely due to the fact that my mom threw aq near-perfect cow toss that none of us younguns could even approach. Even better, each of us found a game we excelled at.
, but overall we were all pretty evenly matched. It was a blast.
quote:Anyone who suggests that SE will never "abandon" Sony is delusional.
Originally posted by twinky:
*bump*
For those who said SquareEnix would never abandon Sony, Dragon Quest IX is going to be a Nintendo DS exclusive. Like everyone else, SquareEnix will go where the money is.
Added: To be clear, I'm not suggesting that SquareEnix has -- or even will -- actually abandon Sony. I'm just pointing out that their loyalty shouldn't be taken for granted.
quote:I'm not talking about the minigames themselves; of course some will be good and others will be bad. You were talking about the controls, and that's what I was asking about. The only one of those that complains about the controls is GameSpy, which happens to be considered the retarded little brother of video game publications. Before you posted the thing from GameSpy, I hadn't read a single review complaining about controls; in fact, it's mostly been praised to one degree or another (for example, IGN's review said it controls as well or better, depending on what you're doing, than the analog controller).
Originally posted by Bokonon:
Most are user reviews. A lot of fans of the previous releases also bemoan the lack in some of the old minigames (Monkey Target being a particular example). As for rankings, according to gamerankings.com, SMB:BB averages ~74 out 100. Rayman, averages 78, Zelda 95, Red Steel 65, Trauma Center 84.
As far as the single player game, everyone says it's decent to good. It's just the minigames. Here are some examples I could find (You can find links to them from gamerankings.com):
From Gamespy:
CONS: Touchy remote-control response results in hit-or-miss party games, with far more missing than we'd like.
From Gamespot:
The Bad: Lack of camera control can be frustrating in some boss battles; quality of multiplayer minigames wildly inconsistent; single-player game a little short.
Yahoo! Games spends 3 paragraphs on issues with the mini-games.
From GamesRadar:
That honor belongs to the 50 minigames ready to go from day one. Wii has already become the minigame console king, and it's Banana Blitz that cements that status. Homerun derbies, treasure hunts, UFO attacks, snowboarding... if you can imagine monkeys doing it, it's probably in here. The catch is that only 10 of them are cool enough to play over and over (hammer toss). 10 more pretty much suck hard (trumpet blowing?) and 30 are fun for at least a couple of tries (slingshot shooting).
---
-Bok
quote:
And its HDMI capabilities give you polygons and frames-per-second out the wazoo, if you prefer that stuff to having fun.
Best of all, for every PS3 you buy, we can buy Wiis for two of our employees.
quote:Oh I can only imagine how a company with Sony's intelligent executive leadership could manage to become reliant on a console gaming market share that it just decided to ruin!
Sony's video-game business is easily its crown jewel. At its best, it has provided more than 60% of Sony's operating profit despite hovering around 10% of overall Sony revenue.
quote:I'm finding out those numbers are off, actually. I'd recommend:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
For anyone keeping up with the original tracking site I linked:
XBox 360: 9,397,646
Playstation 3: 846,122
Wii: 2,170,210
quote:Which post(s) would you consider examples of this?* All I see is people posting news about the launches of the systems, pretty objectively for the most part. Sony has has a lot of troubles with this launch, mostly supply issues - that's not "hate". You'll note that people posted about the Wii strap issues on the first page too, also not "hate."
what's with the Sony-hate bandwagoning?
quote:That wasn't directed towards people here, but a general question overall. If you spend time on any video game forum, it's become PS3 fanboys vs. everyone else, basically. Even, who was it, Time or Newsweek, jumped on the bandwagoning and called the PS3 a failure. I think that's rather harsh, as it has some pretty decent games.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
quote:Which post(s) would you consider examples of this? All I see is people posting news about the launches of the systems, pretty objectively for the most part. Sony has has a lot of troubles with this launch, mostly supply issues - that's not "hate". You'll note that people posted about the Wii strap issues on the first page too, also not "hate."
what's with the Sony-hate bandwagoning?
quote:Good points.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
btw, which PS3 games did you get? Favorite one so far?
quote:And that's pretty low-grade Sony bashing. We can't be mollycoddling their public relations record now, wot wot.
*EDIT: I'd grant Samprimary's second post on this page as Sony-bashing. Still, that's one post.
quote:However, let's not forget how Nintendo boasted their N64 would make visuals that rival the CG in movies. Or their 2 year exclusivity contract forced on developers back in the NES/SNES era, or how they made the SNES CD add-on with Sony, then pulled out of the project not once but twice by telling the public before Sony. Or saying the market "wasn't ready" for CD based games and using cartridges instead for the N64.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:And that's pretty low-grade Sony bashing. We can't be mollycoddling their public relations record now, wot wot.
*EDIT: I'd grant Samprimary's second post on this page as Sony-bashing. Still, that's one post.
quote:You'll please forgive me then; I frequent a board for a Nintendo game I love, but have to constantly put up with fanboys. After a few years, I've developed a knee-jerk.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
Sorry, but your post just reminds me of the "fanboy" sort of thing that annoys me about most gaming forums. Just speaking for myself, I'm not here to root for "my" system and I'd hate to see the thread devolve into that sort of thing.
One thing you mentioned that I am interested in though: exclusivity. Are exclusivity contracts really a "stupid, bad thing"?
--Enigmatic
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quote:In both cases, however, it's bad for consumers.
However, I didn't like the way Nintendo did it where, by publishing a game on their system, it was not allowed to be published o a competitor's system for two years; Sony and Microsoft instead paid money to developers to entice them to make games exclusive, which is good for developers and for them.
quote:LINK
Between design, programming, and art assets, nearly half of a game's total development cost is already spent (see graph). Console license fees, retail markups and other miscellaneous costs just add to this figure—the exact figures are somewhat abstracted as games are typically sold to retailers at a fixed price below retail, and that is represented on the graph as a percentage of a $60 list price. Getting that investment back requires that game publishers sell large quantities of their games—Namco Bandai president Takeo Takasu said his company needs to sell at least 500,000 copies of each PlayStation 3 game it develops to make a profit. Unfortunately, due to console scarcity and higher prices, next-gen console sales are not yet at a point where those numbers are an inevitability. Microsoft claims that 10 million Xbox 360s will be sold by the end of this year, while Sony's most optimistic estimates put only 2 million PS3s in homes by the same time frame. Many game companies are waiting for the next generation to become a bit more ubiquitous before starting development on these platforms
quote:My statement merely reflects my initial response to the video. Every time I see that video, (which was far, far too often because of fanbois in the office), it triggers in me an admittedly irrational response to start playing devils advocate and trash the Wii.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
calaban, my point is that it seems odd to say "That video made me not want to buy a wii" when it's not nintendo putting out the video.
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
quote:
The little DS juggernaut sold 918,000 units in November, bringing life-to-date US sales to 7.6 million units. The PS2 followed as the second-best selling piece of hardware for the month with 664,000 units sold and 35.8 million life-to-date. Third place was held by the never-say-die GameBoy Advance with 641,000 units in November and 34.3 life-to-date.
Xbox 360 was next, with 511,000 units sold, bringing life-to-date US sales to 3.4 million units. The PSP followed with 412,000 sold during the month with 5.7 million sold life-to-date in the US.
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
quote:Actually, GTHD got canned, and the team's moved on to GT5. They did released some of what they finished though as a demo, and it's not bad from what I've heard. It's got maybe 10 cars and a few tracks.
Originally posted by calaban:
So no GTHD for me.
quote:How do you figure? While, yes, it means the consumers have to pay more by buying multiple consoles, it also means all three companies work that much harder to compete, and competition (usually) means lower prices and better quality as companies vie for our dollars with the best things they can offer.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:In both cases, however, it's bad for consumers.
However, I didn't like the way Nintendo did it where, by publishing a game on their system, it was not allowed to be published o a competitor's system for two years; Sony and Microsoft instead paid money to developers to entice them to make games exclusive, which is good for developers and for them.
quote:I couldn't possibly care less about competition between CONSOLES. I care about competition between GAME DEVELOPERS, which is infinitely more important. The canvas isn't exciting to me.
While, yes, it means the consumers have to pay more by buying multiple consoles, it also means all three companies work that much harder to compete...
quote:So, as a consumer, you have to either spend $3000 or decide which one of those three things you really care about. Even though the game developer would, except in a very few cases, be perfectly happy porting its game to the system you already own.
Besides, having several consoles means each one can do a few things really well rather than all of them poorly.
quote:They'd be 26 games per console away from making a profit. (Maybe you should stick with communism instead of trying to figure out capitalism
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Now what happens if they manage to sell 3 games per console?
) quote:It is important. Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control. So yes, console competition is important. Without anyone to compete with, why spend millions on R&D when reiterating the product a small step is all that's needed?
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I couldn't possibly care less about competition between CONSOLES.
While, yes, it means the consumers have to pay more by buying multiple consoles, it also means all three companies work that much harder to compete...
quote:$3000? Hardly; $1250, and that's for the premium versions of two of them. And they'll be getting price cuts in a year or two at that.
So, as a consumer, you have to either spend $3000 or decide which one of those three things you really care about. Even though the game developer would, except in a very few cases, be perfectly happy porting its game to the system you already own.
quote:Don't forget, though, that Sony also has its own in-house development studios, and it probably makes better margins on those games. Also, there are the retro games they'll be selling on the Playstation Network Platform.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
If Sony gets $7 in license fees per copy sold, that's 29 games per 60gig and 43 games per 20gig, just to start turning a profit. That's a whole lot of games for someone to buy for one console.
quote:You realize the PC did all these things first?
Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.
quote:It helped lead to the once-giant getting hosed. They adapted well to their new third-rate status, maintaining profitibility on nearly all ventures, expanding the handheld market, and cruising off of niche marketability and proprietary creativity.
Nintendo's done some stupid, bad things too.
quote:True, yeah, but the push for 3D in consoles came from Sony. Most developers who were shown tech demos of the Playstation and encouraged to develop games for it before it was released didn't understand why they should move from 2D to 3D when 2D was working just fine.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:You realize the PC did all these things first?
Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.
quote:Sounds a lot like how some sections of the music business are being run lately.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
They aren't as spry as the Nintendo structure, and their gaming system has to prop up a money-bleeding megacorp that likes to gamble on proprietary injection and bully experimentation ("we know you're going to love our console, so we're going to fill it exactly with what we want you to want in it").
First I want to see where their market share ends up. I think we'll have a good idea past the release of the flagship titles.
quote:maybe so for you but the big N won't get very far in the console wars that way. they have a chance to gains a huge foothold in the market this cycle, if they fail to capitalize on this opportunity i fear they will play a role similar to modern day sega. man typing on the wii is tough. forget proof reading!
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I would have no problem buying a Wii if all I ever get in support of it is:
A couple Zelda titles
Metroid
Some sort of Mario Kart-ish game
Wario Ware
Mario Party
Castlevania (fingers crossed)
quote:I posted December 2006 sales figures for the U.S. at the bottom of page two:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
So, are there any updated numbers on sales? When would we have to wait until to get a good estimate - end of the quarter?
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
NPD has released the official December 2006 sales figures for North America.
PS2 -- 1.4 million
Xbox 360 -- 1.1 million
Wii -- 604,200
PS3 -- 490,700
DS -- 1.6 million
PSP -- 953,200
GBA -- 850,700
Wireless 360 controller -- 823,800
Wiimote -- 646,700
Nunchuck -- 497,100
Sixaxis -- 336,000
quote:There's VGCharts, which is the best single source for cumulative figures I know of.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I was wondering more about total sales, not just a monthly figure. Specifically, how many of each console has been sold to date.
Is such information available, or only released at certain times, or require a special effort to add together each month's figures?
quote:I would be willing to pay up to and including $500 for this game alone.
hey, even a StarTropics redux...
quote:Eh? That seemed incongruous to me, so I took the liberty of totalling the U.S. and Japanese PS3 and Wii sales for November and December 2006, by way of VGCharts.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
interesting, Wii is outseling PS3 but only by 16%
quote:That's December figures for the U.S. only, as I noted both when I posted it and when I quoted it.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
the quoted figures about 5 posts up put the difference of aout 100,000 units.
quote:I think it is. Nintendo wants you to buy a Wii, yes, but they also want me to buy one.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
The Wii isn't shooting for that market.
quote:Excellent.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
BTW, I read that MP3 will still have lots puzzle-related play (don't know what that means, having never played the new Metroids), not just enemy-blasting, twinky
quote:But I don't think they're really trying to get you to buy one instead of one of the other consoles. They've priced it low enough that it could be an affordable second console.
Nintendo wants you to buy a Wii, yes, but they also want me to buy one
quote:I guess I don't understand the difference between your position and mine, then. I never said that Nintendo wants me to buy a Wii instead of a PS3 -- I'm sure they don't care whether I buy a PS3 or not. They do, however, want me to buy a Wii. The people you're talking about don't care about Zelda or Metroid; their system-sellers are games like Wii Sports and Wario Ware. But you don't see Nintendo ceasing production on Zelda and Metroid games; indeed, Nintendo has SquareEnix working on a Wii-exclusive Final Fantasy title, and the Wii, while not high definition-capable, does at least support 480p widescreen. They're going after a broader market, yes -- that's exactly what I've been asserting -- but to suggest that they don't particularly care about the hardcore gamers is, I think, a mistake. They do, but hardcore gamers are only a subset of the audience they're after. [Added: That is, the Wii doesn't cater to hardcore gamers, but it courts the broader market much more aggressively than either Microsoft or Sony. However, Sony and Microsoft aren't ignoring the broader market either; look no further than the Xbox Live Arcade and the PlayStation Network.]
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
[Edit: I think I phrased that badly, again. I think they're trying hard to get the people who don't stylize themselves as "gamers". They're also trying to get the younger audience, and the parent audience. They're trying for the disillusioned gamer, too. As for the "hardcore gamer" group - I think they'd be happy to be a 2nd console.]
quote:Exactly. Wii's focus is not on the hardcore gamers - it's willing to come in second or third in that race. It's looking to conquer the non-hardcore market, while Sony/Microsoft are willing to settle for second or third there (so long as they can be #1 in the hardcore market).
That is, the Wii doesn't cater to hardcore gamers, but it courts the broader market much more aggressively than either Microsoft or Sony. However, Sony and Microsoft aren't ignoring the broader market either; look no further than the Xbox Live Arcade and the PlayStation Network.
quote:I understand what you're saying, but the dominance of 3D games is why I haven't wanted a console from the Nintendo 64 generation onward. 3D games are too hard for me to control and too easy for me to get lost in. Thankfully the DS (which I have) hasn't gone all-3D yet.
Originally posted by Hitoshi:
Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.
quote:That's exactly what I've been saying right from my first response to you, only I used the word "superset."
It's sort of like a Venn Diagram - Sony and Microsoft are targeting the same bubble of people, while Nintendo is going for a far larger bubble that includes Sony/MS's bubble.
quote:This I disagree with. I think it's another example of the false "graphics/gameplay" dichotomy -- there's no reason you can't have both. Nintendo could certainly have designed powerful hardware to accompany their new control scheme, but they didn't; the Wii hardware is an extension of the GameCube hardware. Nintendo didn't make that choice in the interests of fun, they did that in the interests of large stacks of money*. The Wii was the only console that launched at a profit in this hardware generation, and their lower pricing certainly didn't hurt their sales.
Why go for hardware supremacy when you can go for fun supremacy?
quote:I think it's a mistake to characterize them as separate races. All three companies have exactly the same goal: profit. All three want to maximize sales of their hardware and software. They're simply pursuing that goal in different ways -- it's a question of emphasis, of degrees, rather than one of strict segmentation.
Wii's focus is not on the hardcore gamers - it's willing to come in second or third in that race. It's looking to conquer the non-hardcore market, while Sony/Microsoft are willing to settle for second or third there (so long as they can be #1 in the hardcore market).
quote:That's interesting, I'm exactly the opposite. I couldn't play NES or SNES-era games, there was just some kind of fundamental disconnect between my brain and those 2D, side-scrolling worlds. I stink at those games without exception. Once they made the transition to 3D, I got interested, and now own three consoles (GC, PS2, Xbox 360).
Originally posted by Omega M.:
quote:I understand what you're saying, but the dominance of 3D games is why I haven't wanted a console from the Nintendo 64 generation onward. 3D games are too hard for me to control and too easy for me to get lost in. Thankfully the DS (which I have) hasn't gone all-3D yet.
Originally posted by Hitoshi:
Without Sega and Sony constantly fighting Nintendo for marketshare, there's no indication when games would've moved into 3D, invented analog control, and then further added motion sensing control.
quote:You're right, they didn't focus on that. It was a marketing choice not to try to fight on that front. Their marketing hasn't been "look how fast we can go" but "look how much fun we can be". They're selling their machine on the idea that it's new, different, fun, and interesting. They're not banking on the "we're more hardcore than the other guys" strategy (which PS3 and XBox are already slugging away at).
This I disagree with. I think it's another example of the false "graphics/gameplay" dichotomy -- there's no reason you can't have both. Nintendo could certainly have designed powerful hardware to accompany their new control scheme, but they didn't; the Wii hardware is an extension of the GameCube hardware. Nintendo didn't make that choice in the interests of fun, they did that in the interests of large stacks of money*. (emphasis added
quote:Exactly. But that doesn't mean they are in direct competition. There's plenty of profit to be had in the gaming market. Warhammer isn't xactly in direct competition with Dungeons and Dragons, for instance, though there is some overlap. While D&D does do a decent miniature trade, it's not their primary focus - whereas for Warhammer, miniatures are their primary moneymaker.
think it's a mistake to characterize them as separate races. All three companies have exactly the same goal: profit.
quote:That's largely true. A lot of my points are minor with respect to the overall subject. Still, I enjoy talking about this stuff.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I think we agree on most things, twinky, but are just using different words.
quote:What I'm saying is that it was a design choice, and that the design choice was made first; it made the marketing choice you describe a no-brainer. I think the design choice was made to keep R&D and production costs down -- that is, in the interests of profitability.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
You're right, they didn't focus on that. It was a marketing choice not to try to fight on that front.
quote:Your analogy holds in terms of what's under the proverbial hood, but the price differential between the Bug and the Ferrari is much more dramatic in real terms than the price differential between the Wii and even the PS3, to a degree that the Ferrari simply cannot be purchased by your average VW Bug purchaser. Given how well extra Wiimotes and nunchucks are selling, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the average Wii purchaser could, if they wanted, buy a PS3 and even the attendant HDTV. I do think cost is a factor, and a significant one -- I think the PS3's cost is turning a lot of people off, but I don't think that means they literally can't afford to buy it. I think it means they just don't want to spend that much on a game console. As the sales figures I've been posting show, the truly cost-conscious and/or cost-constrained consumers are actually still buying PS2s and GBAs.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
It's sort of like cars. All car companies are trying to make money - but the VW Bug isn't trying to make it using the same marketing strategy as the Ferrari. While you could technically say those two cars are in competition (in the car customer market), I wouldn't really say they are in direct competition for the same customers.
quote:A gamer on a limited budget is going to buy one or the other, though, right? That's what I'm getting at -- the Wii's lower cost helps it, because most people who would consider buying a console (and especially ones who never would have considered it before the Wii) would never imagine buying more than one within a single hardware generation. Nintendo's hoping that increased appeal to "everyone else" will offset slightly decreased appeal to traditional gamers. It worked with the DS, and I bet it'll work with the Wii, too. On that, though, we seem to agree.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Exactly. But that doesn't mean they are in direct competition. There's plenty of profit to be had in the gaming market. Warhammer isn't xactly in direct competition with Dungeons and Dragons, for instance, though there is some overlap. While D&D does do a decent miniature trade, it's not their primary focus - whereas for Warhammer, miniatures are their primary moneymaker.
quote:That's true... but wait for the Metroid Prime 3 ads.
Nintendo is shooting for a slightly different aspect of the gamer market than Sony/MicroSoft, and their advertising reflects that. While Nintendo mostly shows actual people playing the games (emphasis on the fun they are having), the other systems mostly show the games themselves (emphasis on graphics and performance).
quote:The Wii's lower cost helps, but a Halo-head ain't gonna buy a Wii because it's cheaper. And someone who's all about EA Sports games isn't going to buy a Wii, either - regardless of price.
A gamer on a limited budget is going to buy one or the other, though, right?
quote:You're right, it was a design choice. The Nintendo developers chose not to try to compete in terms of cutting edge graphics/memory/high-performance hardware. They went for playability.
What I'm saying is that it was a design choice, and that the design choice was made first; it made the marketing choice you describe a no-brainer.
quote:Actually, I saw one of the "We would like to play ads" did have Metroid Prime 3 footage in it. Clearly the game has no release date yet and they aren't really advertising it, but I think they could easily use a similar style of ads for the final advertising campaign.
Originally posted by twinky:
That's true... but wait for the Metroid Prime 3 ads.
quote:I think you're wrong about that. I think a lot of people are waiting for Wii versions of EA sports games -- Madden and Tiger Woods, in particular.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
[QUOTE]And someone who's all about EA Sports games isn't going to buy a Wii, either - regardless of price.
quote:Everything I saw in the Wii launch window points to you being wrong about this, too. I frequent multiple forums populated primarily by "hardcore gamers," and there was massive interest in the Wii, including lots of people camping out to get them, and lots of people who are still looking for one now. The Wii had huge buzz in the "hardcore" community.
Now, Wii has more gamer appeal than the old iMacs, but "hardcore gamers" have either been loving their 360 or jonesin' for their PS3 for months... most weren't up at night checking for updates to the Wii release date.
quote:Yeah, that explains the numerous sites dedicated to tracking Wii releases, and that for weeks after the release date there were lines outside the likely stores two or three times a week well before opening (night before on the weekend) with people looking for Wiis, but in all the lines I stood in not a single person was after a PS3 (and they were technically joint Wii/PS3 lines, according to the stores). The first few times, this befuddled the store employees, then they started assuming it -- "Nobody's here for a PS3, right?"
Now, Wii has more gamer appeal than the old iMacs, but "hardcore gamers" have either been loving their 360 or jonesin' for their PS3 for months... most weren't up at night checking for updates to the Wii release date.
quote:Here is a breakdown of the specs of each console, and you can see that "high performance" was not the goal of the Wii design team. People who geek out over specs and find that the most important indicator in a game system are not the Wii target audience, obviously.
The SIXAXIS wireless controller is basically the same complicated gazillion-button-style controller you know from past PS models, but at least you won’t be fighting Grandma for gaming time. Along with the usual roster of ho-hum games, the PS3 can play CDs, DVDs, and Blu-Ray discs, and the 20GB hard drive can store music, videos, and music videos. It’s certainly, er, rather full-figured, for those of you who want a lot of heft for your money. And its HDMI capabilities give you polygons and frames-per-second out the wazoo, if you prefer that stuff to having fun.
quote:The cost to do both might have forced Nintendo to break with tradition and sell it as a loss leader like the other two console manufacturers. That isn't quite the same thing, and definitely doesn't imply that graphics and gameplay must each come at the other's expense.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
It isn't a false dichotomy, IMO. The cost to do both could have doomed the device
quote:You're mistaken. In America, the PS2 significantly outsold the GameCube in the month of the GameCube's launch, and continued to outsell it for the entire lifespan of both consoles. In Japan, the GameCube sold more in its launch week than the PS2, but by the second week GameCube sales had dropped off and it never caught up. (America, Japan; unfortunately VGCharts won't allow me to generate monthly date-aligned graphs for both regions, nor worldwide, but the graphs make the point all the same).
It's as if, because the Wii is selling well now, that automatically makes the PS3 a commercial flop, when the situation was the same during the time of the Gamecube's release, if I'm not mistaken.
quote:While it's WAY to early to call the system itself a flop (it may very well take off when the big title games finally come out, or when they're able to lower the price) it seems pretty fair to say that the PS3 launch was a flop based on observations that have nothing to do with how well the Wii is selling. As I've said before, Sony had better hope that their long run strategy pays off here. Unfortunately, if their early sales are seen (in the industry, not by us) as disappointing, developers may jump ship, they may miss out on exclusives, so less people buy the system, so more developers leave, etc. It's this kind of snowball effect which really hurt the N64 and Gamecube.
It's as if, because the Wii is selling well now, that automatically makes the PS3 a commercial flop,
quote:Seriously? Unless any of these have been pushed back:
To me, I find both the PS3's and Wii's future lineups far too sparse, particularly the Wii's with Fils-Aime reassuring us we'd have plenty of hits to play, but the lineup through March and April having diddily.
quote:Or raise it
or when they're able to lower the price
quote:I can't fault you for being indirect.
You're mistaken.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Thanks for the correction, I must've switched the sales in my mind somehow.quote:I think this is a big factor actually, yeah, and not even just the lack of killer apps. The price will still be too high for a lot of people until it reaches three or even two hundred dollars. The PS2 didn't really skyrocket its sales until it got the price at and below $200, when the majority of casual gamers finally decided to buy it. That's not to say it wasn't doing well; just that it's been selling like mad with its lower price and established library.
On the other hand, I know plenty of people who are waiting for the big exclusives (MGS4, FFXIII, etc), so I certainly wouldn't count Sony out.
quote:Fair indeed. I doubt it could've gone much worse, actually. Sony needs to get back in touch with its audience. No more crappy launch parties or botched E3 conferences. Underplay the hype and overdeliver; market it strategically with appealing and informative ads showing the games, not abstract crap with it making a Rubik's Cube explode or making a doll cry.
it seems pretty fair to say that the PS3 launch was a flop
quote:I guess the main problem is that none of those games scream "Buy me!" to me. Even SMG. Ever since Mario became 3D and it was running through the same level ten times to collect 125 stars or shines or what have you, I basically decided I wasn't interested. I was raised on Mario and love the game dearly, especially SMB3. To me, that's what Mario is about: running through levels, stomping Goombas, and beating the Hammer Bros. Not a collect 'x' fest.
3/8/07 - Mario Party 8 (I'm not big on these myself, but they seem to always do well.)
3/13/07 - Prince of Persia, Tiger Woods PGA 2007
4/1/07 - Super Mario Galaxy
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
quote:But you get to use the wiimote as a whip! Just like I hope a castlevania game is made that employs the same principle!
Originally posted by twinky:
That's it? Oh well. Never mind, then.
quote:I was wondering if it was going to be a remake of one of the previous PoP games. Fortunately, I've never played Two Thrones, so I'll still be checking this one out when it's available.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
Rival Swords is I believe a remake of Two Thrones. I believe there is some added content, but it's essentially the same game, with Wii remote controls.
-Bok
quote:Very. I see them routinely when I go into Best Buys, Targets, etc.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
How available are PS3s?
quote:Interesting. Ace Combat 6 for the 360, could be a problem because it's consistently one of the PS2's best selling exclusive franchises.
A couple of games go Multi platform-ACE COMBAT 6
quote:GAH, and I just bought a new TV and 360. Crap!
Originally posted by twinky:
I can't follow the source link at work, but it looks like the 120GB black Xbox 360 with HDMI out is for real, at something like US$479. A larger HD for the 360 is definitely a good idea, given the high-def video download service MS has launched in the US. HDMI out is also a plus.
quote:Microsoft technically wouldn't have to do anything.
Maybe it's just a rumor. If not, someone at Microsoft has been very persuasive as of late.
--j_k
quote:While we may disagree on many things, our taste in videogames are strikingly similar.
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
I'd recommend trying out Mario Party before you get it. I figured it would be a lot of zany fun, but instead it was a whole lot of waiting for anything to happen. Maybe if there were 4 players instead of only 2 (+2 computer players). You can play the minigames on their own, but you have to unlock them first by playing the (to me and my girlfriend) incredibly boring main game.
Rayman uses the same unlocking, but you get to the games right away in the main game.
Zelda rocks, by the way.
When it comes out, I highly recommend getting Super Smash Brothers Brawl. The other two in the series where just about the most fun party games I've ever played.
quote:Software:
Nintendo DS: 471K (10.9 million total)
Nintendo Wii: 360K (2.5 million total)
Sony PlayStation 2: 194K (38.2 million total)
Sony PSP: 183K (7.4 million total)
Microsoft Xbox 360: 174K (5.4 million total)
Nintendo Game Boy Advance: 84K (35.7 million total)
Sony PlayStation 3: 82K (1.3 million total)
Nintendo Gamecube: 13K (11.7 million total)
Microsoft Xbox: N/A
quote:All of the major gaming sites carry the numbers, but here's a Joystiq link.
Pokémon Diamond (DS): 1.045M
Pokémon Pearl (DS): 712K
Super Paper Mario (Wii): 352K
Wii Play w/remote (Wii): 249K
Guitar Hero 2 w/guitar (Xbox 360): 197K
Guitar Hero 2 w/guitar (PS2): 142K
Spider-Man 3 (Xbox 360): 117K
Spider-Man 3 (PS2): 105K
God of War II (PS2): 101K
MLB '07: The Show (PS2): 79K
No Wii here yet, though, I'm still 360-only as far as current-gen consoles are concerned. Lately my PS2 has been seeing a lot of use, though, what with finishing Okami and starting Bully. Okami was excellent; Bully's very interesting so far, if somewhat disturbing in its dystopian take on middle school. The drive spindle has been making some weird noises, and it's a launch unit (that I bought used a couple of years ago), so Bully may be its last gasp.
quote:Really? I didn't care for it. The clumsiness of the wiimote control scheme completely killed that game for me. I mean, the beauty of a controller like the wiimote is that if you're going to perform a sword thrust, you can actually physically thrust the controller, right? Instead, all of the sword manuvers are performed by waving the wiimote back and forth in a slashing motion while pressing buttons and using the thumb stick (I think; not utterly sure the thumb stick was involved) on the nunchuck. Completely and unnecessarily non-intuitive.
Zelda rocks, by the way.
(Can't read PA from work.)
quote:I'm a "sit and flick" player. You get much better control that way.
Originally posted by twinky:
Huh. Am I the only one who plays Wii Tennis by flicking my wrist while seated?
quote:Huh--so it is! I've been calling that by the wrong name since I first saw the case.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
Noemon: It's Rayman Raving Rabbids
quote:Any number of sources carry the information, but I can't access most of them from work. Here's a Bloomberg link.
HW Sales
[NDS] 423,150
[WII] 338,278
[PSP] 221,120
[PS2] 187,765
[360] 154,932
[PS3] 81,604
[GBA] 80,554
[NGC] 10,728
Top 10 SW
01. [NDS] Pokemon Diamond (Nintendo) - 331K
02. [WII] Mario Party 8 (Nintendo) - 314k
03. [PS2] Spider-Man 3 (Activision) - 249k
04. [NDS] Pokemon Pearl (Nintendo) - 238k
05. [WII] Wii Play w/remote (Nintendo) - 227k
06. [360] Forza Motorsport 2 (Microsoft) - 217k
07. [360] Guitar Hero II w/guitar (Activision) - 184k
08. [360] Spider-Man 3 (Activision) - 140k
09. [360] Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars (Electronic Arts) - 138k
10. [PS2] Guitar Hero II w/guitar (Activision) - 131k
quote:They'll keep selling for a while yet, good PS2 games are still coming out even now -- God of War 2, Odin Sphere, etc. And the backlist is outstanding.
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
They still sold 180,000 PS2?!
quote:The price of the PS2 (USD$129) is far more affordable for many people than the PS3 (USD$600). Doesn't surprise me in the least that the PS2 is outselling the PS3 at the moment. It'll probably continue to sell fairly well until they stop producing them or games become too scarce, and I don't forsee that happening anytime soon.
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
They still sold 180,000 PS2?!
quote:If you don't understand why, you do not understand the premise behind any sports game.
If I wanted to be doing something with my body, then I'd go outside and get some exercies. For example, why would people buy Wii golf if they could go out and play the real thing?
quote:Same here, plus the fact that my favorite series has jumped ship.
I might get an Xbox 360, but that's a very weak "might". I have no intentions on getting a PS3, and yes, the price is a major reason why.
quote:-Anoop Gantayat (2007). No Final Fantasy For Xbox 360: Square Enix has nothing in the works.. Retrieved on 5 June 2007.
On June 5, 2007 Square Enix's Shinji Hashimoto disclosed information to to Japanese company Nikkei BP that they are not currently planning on releasing any Final Fantasy titles on the Xbox 360, which was the likely destination of Final Fantasy XIII had it been a multiplatform title. Hashimoto stated that while Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers is currently in production for the Wii, plans to develop a Final Fantasy title for the 360 are currently "a blank page"
quote:That is so incredibly stupid. Also if FFXIII bails out Sony just like FFVII did I will be supremely pissed. I don't know why Square is throwing in with Sony all the way. How do they lose by developing for Xbox and PS3? The only people who stand to lose by that arrangement is Sony.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:-Anoop Gantayat (2007). No Final Fantasy For Xbox 360: Square Enix has nothing in the works.. Retrieved on 5 June 2007.
On June 5, 2007 Square Enix's Shinji Hashimoto disclosed information to to Japanese company Nikkei BP that they are not currently planning on releasing any Final Fantasy titles on the Xbox 360, which was the likely destination of Final Fantasy XIII had it been a multiplatform title. Hashimoto stated that while Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers is currently in production for the Wii, plans to develop a Final Fantasy title for the 360 are currently "a blank page"
quote:Can you play golf with a total time investment of 15 minutes at two o'clock in the morning?
For example, why would people buy Wii golf if they could go out and play the real thing?
quote:Final Fantasy XI is already out on the Xbox 360, so the article is factually incorrect.
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:-Anoop Gantayat (2007). No Final Fantasy For Xbox 360: Square Enix has nothing in the works.. Retrieved on 5 June 2007.
On June 5, 2007 Square Enix's Shinji Hashimoto disclosed information to to Japanese company Nikkei BP that they are not currently planning on releasing any Final Fantasy titles on the Xbox 360, which was the likely destination of Final Fantasy XIII had it been a multiplatform title. Hashimoto stated that while Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers is currently in production for the Wii, plans to develop a Final Fantasy title for the 360 are currently "a blank page"
quote:They aren't. The Dragon Quest franchise has moved from the PlayStation2 with DQVIII to the Nintendo DS with the announced DQIX. SquareEnix will go where the money is. In Japan, there isn't much money in the 360. North America, however, is another story, so I'm sure they'll give careful consideration to what they want to do, and if it's a timed exclusive, they probably won't breathe a word of it until a few months after the game launches on PS3.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I don't know why Square is throwing in with Sony all the way.
quote:Still, the PS2 outsells the 360. It's a mad, mad world. In March, the PS2 even outsold the Wii.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The 360 sales are actually pretty steady given that they have already sold units to a major portion of the market.
It's easier to sell consoles to a fresh market, but the sales of 360s right now are very good for a console that has already sold itself to most of the core demographic.
quote:Why? Lots of good games out for the PS2, and for someone who's just now getting into the market, you can get a HECK of a good PS2 library for the cost of a PS3, a controller, and one game.
Still, the PS2 outsells the 360. It's a mad, mad world.
All you need is a DS and, assuming you're willing to go the used-game route for Game Boy Advance games, you'll have more games than you know what to do with. And you don't even notice that the graphics are "worse" than the high-end systems once you're playing.
quote:It's also a decent DVD player, which means it's very appealing to college students who have no money.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Why? Lots of good games out for the PS2, and for someone who's just now getting into the market, you can get a HECK of a good PS2 library for the cost of a PS3, a controller, and one game.
Still, the PS2 outsells the 360. It's a mad, mad world.
quote:Statements like that make me more and more glad I camped out for mine last Thanksgiving.
At some point, of course, supply will catch up with demand. But some analysts don't see this happening until next year.
"I don't think by the holidays," Sebastian said. "But maybe by the middle of next year, perhaps they can add another production line."
quote:Ewww that could actually make things worse as Sony already sells consoles at a loss, and expect to recoup costs with online purchases, games, peripherals, etc.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
In case anyone hadn't heard...
quote:*COUGH*
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
Interesting. I'd figured the eventual price drop might come around the holiday shopping season, not this early. Is there anything big being released for PS3 soon?
quote:This is way too early in a console's market cycle to be standard. This is a reactionary act to attempt to recoup stickiness and market share.
Samp, all I meant by that is everyone knew the price would come down at some point. Every console, even those which started cripplingly under cost, come down in price eventually.
quote:That's true, but it doesn't mean much as a metric of the PS3's success in Japan given how poorly the 360 is selling. Compared to the Wii and DS, the 360 and PS3 are selling very badly.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Also consider that compared to the Xbox 360, the PS3 is selling extremely well in Japan.
quote:This is not entirely true. Blue Dragon created a surge of Xbox purchases in Japan back in December as it was an exclusive game for the 360 designed by the creator of Final Fantasy and drawn by the man who created Dragon Ball. If Microsoft can pull off another exclusive deal of that type the PS3 will be in very sad shape.
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Also consider that compared to the Xbox 360, the PS3 is selling extremely well in Japan. For some reason the Japanese aren't at all receptive to the Xbox. The biggest market is in the US, which I think makes it the best place to compare sales, if you aren't going to do it internationally.
quote:Not anymore! The PS3 project is hurdling them into the red.
this won't be a death knell for Sony's video games division, hell, it's the only thing keeping the company afloat really.
quote:Actually the loyalty ended up forking to Nintendo there. It's just a not all around good situation.
This isn't Dreamcast for them, I think largely because of an extremely loyal base in Japan.
quote:I'm sorry for the snarkiness here, but: Did you read the next sentence after the part you quoted? Because I keep saying that the big deal here is HOW EARLY the price cut is, which is exactly what you're arguing, right? I don't think we're in disagreement here.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:This is way too early in a console's market cycle to be standard. This is a reactionary act to attempt to recoup stickiness and market share.
Samp, all I meant by that is everyone knew the price would come down at some point. Every console, even those which started cripplingly under cost, come down in price eventually.
When you have rollbacks on a console game plan like this, it's emblematic of the 'soft' consoles with limited, lossy cycles: Dreamcast comes to mind.
quote:I know, I'm just expanding on the difference of this drop from the average console lifetime price drop.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
quote:I'm sorry for the snarkiness here, but: Did you read the next sentence after the part you quoted? Because I keep saying that the big deal here is HOW EARLY the price cut is, which is exactly what you're arguing, right? I don't think we're in disagreement here.
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:This is way too early in a console's market cycle to be standard. This is a reactionary act to attempt to recoup stickiness and market share.
Samp, all I meant by that is everyone knew the price would come down at some point. Every console, even those which started cripplingly under cost, come down in price eventually.
When you have rollbacks on a console game plan like this, it's emblematic of the 'soft' consoles with limited, lossy cycles: Dreamcast comes to mind.
--Enigmatic
quote:Sure it does.
Originally posted by twinky:
The new 80GB PS3 does not have hardware backwards compatibility.
quote:Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
quote:I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
quote:You'd be wrong. Authorized retailers and distributors are required to sign contracts indicating that they will abide by the manufacturer's designated Minimum Advertised Price (MAP), or they will not be afforded the opportunity to sell the (current or future) products, and purchases from their stores may not be treated as legitimate, making them ineligible for warranty service.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
quote:Its not THAT bad on the 360 end. Plus Microsoft just dropped 1 billion dollars to address that concern. I'm going with the sentiment, "Buy a Wii and a 360, its just a mere $50 more then a PS3."
Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged:
I wonder will this end the Hardware arms race, the 360 was rushed out and is defective, the PS3 cost to much, but the WII is just right. It's like Goldie locks and the three Video game systems. I say that as a xbox360 owner.
quote:Because then other retailers would also slash $10 or else $15 and the price would drop until its almost not profitable to sell the product at that price.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:You'd be wrong. Authorized retailers and distributors are required to sign contracts indicating that they will abide by the manufacturer's designated Minimum Advertised Price (MAP), or they will not be afforded the opportunity to sell the (current or future) products, and purchases from their stores may not be treated as legitimate, making them ineligible for warranty service.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:I'd disagree with you but I can't even begin to think how I would look this up.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Uhhhhhhh...no, no they can't, without Sony's permission.
How is this a price drop and not just a "Clearance Sale! 60g PS3s 16% off!" which just about ANY retailer can do with or without Sony's permission?
Why on earth else would, say, Best Buy sell the consoles for $599 when they could just as easily slash prices $10 and instantly start selling more than everyone else on the market?
quote:Exactly, which is what MAP policies are designed to prevent. They're an agreement between the manufacturers and the retailers/distributors to protect margins.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Because then other retailers would also slash $10 or else $15 and the price would drop until its almost not profitable to sell the product at that price.
quote:Here's a start.
Not saying you are wrong, you are probably right, but I am not even sure where I could go to read up on this sort of thing.
quote:Right. This did not stop it from happening, and there were and are numerous loopholes allowing manufacturers to dictate the prices their products must be sold at, legally and above board. I don't, unfortunately, have the legalese details: I do, however, know that of the two dozen or so manufacturers I work with routinely, every single one has an MAP policy I've seen enforced: one part of my job is to constantly search for businesses underselling the MAP and alert the manufacturer. Typically, these companies change their pricing within a day.
Until then it was not legal.
quote:Of course, and the understanding for most manufacturers is that if you violate the minimum advertised price, either through your advertising OR by selling the products at a price lower than the MAP, they'll stop selling you products.
What you are talking about, erosomniac, is a Minimum Advertised Price agreement, which is the cause of those advertisements that say the price is too low to advertise.
quote:This is a distinction that I don't think actually exists in the real world.
Sure, and that practice is legal. What's illegal was an agreement to sell above a certain price.
quote:Not to nitpick, but the link you provided confirms what Twinky said: the 80GB PS3 does not have hardware backwards compatibility. The article states compatibility will be handled by software.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Sure it does.
Originally posted by twinky:
The new 80GB PS3 does not have hardware backwards compatibility.
Is hardware BC better than software BC? Does it matter?quote:It's the difference between backwards compatibility on the Xbox 360 and backwards compatibility on the PS2. Hardware BC is much, much more reliable, but at the expense of added hardware.
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
Now, what makes that a nitpick is I have no idea what difference, if any, that really makes.
quote:
562,000 - Nintendo DS (+25%)
381,800 - Nintendo Wii (+13%)
290,100 - Playstation Portable (+24%)
198,400 - Xbox 360 (+28%)
98,500 - Playstation 3 (+20%)
quote:
426,200 - Mario Party 8 (Wii)
293,200 - Wii Play (Wii)
288,400 - Pokemon Diamond (DS)
214,700 - Pokemon Pearl (DS)
197,400 - Forza Motorsport 2 (Xbox 360)
197,350 - Guitar Hero II (PS2)
177,600 - Guitar Hero II - (Xbox 360)
157,900 - Pokemon Battle Revolution (Wii)
quote:
Top 10 Sales, First Half 2007
1. Pokemon Diamond (DS)
2. Wii Play (Wii)
3. Pokemon Pearl (DS)
4. God of War 2 (PS2)
5. Guitar Hero II (PS2)
6. Guitar Hero II (Xbox 360)
7. Mario Party 8 (Wii)
8. Crackdown (Xbox 360)
9. Diddy Kong Racing (DS)
10. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)
quote:Heh.
Unlike the other PlayStation 3 models, the new one won't be able to play games made for the PlayStation 2. In a statement, Sony said this was due to a more extensive lineup of games of the PlayStation 3.
quote:Boo
Originally posted by erosomniac:
... one part of my job is to constantly search for businesses underselling the MAP and alert the manufacturer.
code:NPD Monthly Console Hardware Sales
Month | 360 | PS3 | Wii
Nov/2005 | 326,000 | |
Dec/2005 | 281,000 | |
Jan/2006 | 250,000 | |
Feb/2006 | 161,000 | |
Mar/2006 | 192,000 | |
Apr/2006 | 295,000 | |
May/2006 | 221,000 | |
Jun/2006 | 277,000 | |
Jul/2006 | 207,000 | |
Aug/2006 | 205,000 | |
Sep/2006 | 259,000 | |
Oct/2006 | 218,000 | |
Nov/2006 | 511,000 | 197,000 | 476,000
Dec/2006 | 1,100,000 | 491,000 | 604,000
Jan/2007 | 294,000 | 244,000 | 436,000
Feb/2007 | 228,000 | 127,000 | 335,000
Mar/2007 | 199,000 | 130,000 | 259,000
Apr/2007 | 174,000 | 82,000 | 360,000
May/2007 | 155,000 | 82,000 | 338,000
Jun/2007 | 198,000 | 99,000 | 382,000
Jul/2007 | 170,000 | 159,000 | 425,000
Aug/2007 | 277,000 | 131,000 | 404,000
Sep/2007 | 528,000 | 119,000 | 501,000
Total | 6,726,000 | 1,860,000 | 4,520,000
code:The Wii looks set to have another Fall that's about as spectacular as last fall.Month | 360 | PS3 | Wii
Nov/2005 | 81,500 | |
5 wks Dec/2005 | 56,300 | |
Jan/2006 | 62,500 | |
Feb/2006 | 40,250 | |
5 wks Mar/2006 | 38,400 | |
Apr/2006 | 73,750 | |
May/2006 | 55,250 | |
5 wks Jun/2006 | 55,400 | |
Jul/2006 | 51,750 | |
Aug/2006 | 51,250 | |
5 wks Sep/2006 | 51,800 | |
Oct/2006 | 54,500 | |
Nov/2006 | 127,750 | 49,250 | 119,000
5 wks Dec/2006 | 220,000 | 98,200 | 120,800
Jan/2007 | 73,500 | 61,000 | 109,000
Feb/2007 | 57,000 | 31,750 | 83,750
5 wks Mar/2007 | 39,800 | 26,000 | 51,800
Apr/2007 | 43,500 | 20,500 | 90,000
May/2007 | 38,750 | 20,500 | 84,500
5 wks Jun/2007 | 39,600 | 19,800 | 76,400
Jul/2007 | 42,500 | 39,750 | 106,250
Aug/2007 | 69,250 | 32,750 | 101,000
5 wks Sep/2007 | 105,600 | 23,800 | 100,200
Total | 6,726,000 | 1,860,000 | 4,520,000
quote:I think they already have.
If the Wii comes out with another franchise like Pokemon, I think they will win the current generation's console wars.
quote:From a profit standpoint, I absolutely agree.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I think they already have.
If the Wii comes out with another franchise like Pokemon, I think they will win the current generation's console wars.
quote:Absolutely, for gamers the 360 seems to be the overwhelming choice (Including myself).
Originally posted by Alucard...:
I just picked up the "Orange Box" for 360 last night with Half-Life 2, Team Fortress, and all the other goodies, including the instantly addictive game, Portal.
For my money, if I could only own ONE system, it would be a 360.
quote:There are definitely a number of mature titles for the Wii. They aren't advertised as consistently to the general public. Nintendo is conciously targeting non-gaming segments of the population for the Wii and the DS. I was just trying to imply that, after the low tag price, marketing to a much broader audience is probably the primary factor propelling the Wii to the top of the sales demographics. To it's credit, the Wii is something everyone can have fun with.
Well, Manhunt 2 will test the Wii's family-friendly image, I'd imagine.
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
Come on Homeworld: Empire! I also don't like Mario Kart as much as you do -- I haven't played any Mario Kart games since Mario Kart 64, and I don't particularly feel like I'm missing out. My gaming queue is so full of story-driven games that I don't have time for the more casual stuff, except on portables (e.g. Puzzle Quest DS).quote:I don't get what you mean by this. The way I parse it, this is just as easy to do in any other local multiplayer game as it is in Mario Kart: someone hands a controller to someone else.
Plus, it's far easier to rotate people in and out of game play after bouts, so you can easily have 8-10 people constantly involved.
quote:Definitely. I find Halo much more interesting to watch, and most girls I know find both equally uninteresting to watch.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Of course, ymmv.
quote:Oh, okay. That's certainly true with the defaults -- three laps is shorter than first to 50 kills, which is the default setting in the default game type in Halo 3.
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
What I mean is that the games are shorter and faster paced, I think - you get to the finish line and swap out.
quote:It depends on what sorts of games you want to play together -- competitive or co-operative -- but I imagine you know that already. The console I've done the most local co-op gaming on with my girlfriend is the PS2, by far*. We almost never play competitive video games against one another.
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I know that I'm considering buying a Wii only because the time I have available to game is also the time I have to spend with my wife.
[Added: And with the Wii's installed base one would hope you'll be at least reasonably well-served by third-party titles in addition to Nintendo's usual offering of top-notch first-party stuff.]![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
quote:They publish quarterly shipments to retailers -- NPD counts actual retail sales. [Added: Actually, NPD estimates actual retail sales from a combination of counting and educated guesses for retailers who don't report their sales.]
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
The companies will still publish quarterly sales reports, no?
quote:Sarcastic Gamer's take of the Wii Fit was pretty amusing.
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
You might want to wait until that new Wii board comes out.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/11/nintendo-wii-fit-gets-you-stepping/
quote:
precision of the Wiimote's infrared sensor?
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
quote:You know I really think this depends on the game. In some games it has felt quite cluncky, but in others it's very responsive.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
precision of the Wiimote's infrared sensor?
I love my Wii, but let's be real here: the infrared sensor is definitely NOT more precise than an analog stick.
quote:That would be me.
Who wants to scroll through their menus with unpredictable analog sticks when they have the precision of the Wiimote's infrared sensor?
quote:I don't really care about the size or shape of the channels. However, I would LOVE for launching the game in tray to be the default when you turn on the Wii. Or to have auto-launch be an option you could turn on somewhere.
Originally posted by twinky:
The 360 actually defaults to launching the game in the tray on startup, so some people will never even see the Dashboard.
Anyway, as far as I know, you can't change the size or shape of the channels, and they're all uniform, which is my core criticism of the Wii's channel UI.
quote:That's true, and it also helps most people's channel list is sparsely populated, but I think the selection area is too small even so. I'd love it if the "Play game" channel occupied 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire channel listing area, since that's almost always what I want to do when I turn on a Wii.
Originally posted by Bok:
True, but your criticism can be worked around by deleting or moving off the first page unused icons.
quote:I don't have anything against the Wii -- I'm not going to buy one, but that's because my girlfriend owns one and therefore I don't need to
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
I played a couple PS2 third-party titles a few years ago, and abandoned the whole thing altogether because when I tilted the analog stick down to select something on a menu, the thing scrolled so fast I got dizzy.
...
However, I absolutely detest having to tilt an analog stick just the right amount to go to the next button on a column of a dozen buttons. With the Wii (or more preferably, when it comes to menu selection, the DS) it is so much easier for me to just point at the button.
-- but if you're going to claim that the Wii does this or that better than its competition, you should at least try to be accurate in your claims about what the competition does. This is not how -- for example -- the Xbox 360's Dashboard interface works. One flick of the right thumbstick moves you one selection up or down in the menu. Holding the stick in a direction moves you continuously, but very few of the menus are large enough to make that worth doing. My experience with the PS3 has been limited, but I did navigate some menus, and IIRC they worked that way as well. quote:Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
And yes, if you've played one first person shooter, you've played them all.
quote:Even if you don't care about the story, I don't see how this could be construed as true. I don't care for first person shooters all that much, but compare the gameplay in, say, the Quake games, the Thief games, the Descent Games, and Portal.
Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
And yes, if you've played one first person shooter, you've played them all.
quote:Story in FPSs as an actual narrative instead of barely window-dressing is a relatively recent and by no means ubiquitous development. A person could have experience with a reasonably large number of FPSs and still think that they are all basically the same, even with the caring about story thing.
Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
quote:I don't see why one excludes the other here.
Originally posted by twinky:
Though I guess if you're playing Metroid Prime 3 (don't get me wrong, I love Prime and Prime 2, but story-driven they are not) and anticipating Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros, you probably aren't as into games with strong and/or compelling narrative as I am.
quote:Then that makes it a pretty good example of the variety available in the FPS category, wouldn't you say? I think that's what Noemon was getting at.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
Although Portal is built on FPS tech, it's much more like Lost Vikings than any FPS.
quote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote:Story in FPSs as an actual narrative instead of barely window-dressing is a relatively recent and by no means ubiquitous development.
Again, the only way this can be construed as true is if you don't care about story.
quote:That doesn't make the assertion "If you've played one FPS, you've played them all" actually true. That's like listening to Today's Top 40 Pop Hits and then complaining that all modern music sounds the same.
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
A person could have experience with a reasonably large number of FPSs and still think that they are all basically the same, even with the caring about story thing.
quote:Excludes? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. It seemed to me that C3PO's preferences tended away from story-driven games because of the games he listed as his favourites and most anticipated upcoming titles. I definitely don't think that liking story driven games means you can't like storyless games, though.
Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
I don't see why one excludes the other here.
quote:Agreed. I think the tactical shooter is a sub-genre:)
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
Based solely on gameplay, Quake 1/2/3 are nothing like CounterStrike or Rainbow Six. They're so different that one could argue they're different sub-genres even, but they are definitely both First Person Shooters.
quote:This is an opinion, not a fact. There are certainly people -- like me, for instance -- who like at least some of the entertainment to come from the narrative.
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
In a video game, the entertainment should not come from the story at all.
quote:I doubt you're the only one, but I certainly don't do that. If the story, dialogue, or cutscenes are "monotonous" in a single-player game, I'm generally not playing the game at all, save for necessarily storyless games like Tetris and also turn-based strategy games (including strategy RPGs).
Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
Am I the only one here who usually presses the A button or whatever to skip cutscenes or monotonous dialogue as fast as possible so I can get to actually playing the game?
quote:I think I see where you're coming from on that, but I'm going to have to disagree, specifically with this part:
Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Excludes? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. It seemed to me that C3PO's preferences tended away from story-driven games because of the games he listed as his favourites and most anticipated upcoming titles. I definitely don't think that liking story driven games means you can't like storyless games, though.
Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
I don't see why one excludes the other here.
quote:You implied here that because someone is looking forward to a game with minimal to no story, that they probably aren't as interested in games that contain those narrative elements. I disagree that any such corelation exists.
Though I guess if you're playing Metroid Prime 3 (don't get me wrong, I love Prime and Prime 2, but story-driven they are not) and anticipating Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros, you probably aren't as into games with strong and/or compelling narrative as I am.
quote:Do I need to change the thread title?
Originally posted by twinky:
Well, so much for tracking the video game wars.
quote:I can try. If we were talking about fiction and I gave you a few examples of my favourite novels and most anticipated upcoming novels, and every single one of them was science fiction, wouldn't it be reasonable for you to guess that sci-fi is my preferred genre?
Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
It's possible that I misunderstood you. If so, could you please clarify?
My Xbox 360 is sitting packed up...unused...By the time I'll have free time GTA 4 will be out.
quote:eh? how? I went to the store today and they said it does not come out until tomorrow, IGN had it listed as coming out today. I am not sure if I should expend the $50 for it, maybe I'd do better to just rent it and play through it within 2 weeks time.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
I picked up SMG today...but can't open it because it's a present for the girlfriend.
HURRY UP, SQUISH.
quote:Speaking of which, has anyone seen the reviews for it?
I'm having the same problem with Assassin's Creed. It's out today in some places, but Future Shop says the release date is Friday.
quote:The Halo 3 juggernaut continues to top the charts, and the Wii and DS just keep on selling half a million units each month regardless of what's being released.
October 2007 Hardware Sales
* PlayStation 2 -- 184,000
* PlayStation 3 -- 121,000
* PlayStation Portable -- 286,000
* Xbox 360 -- 366,000
* Wii -- 519,000
* Nintendo DS -- 458,000
October 2007 Top Ten Software Sales
1. Halo 3 (Xbox 360) -- 433,800
2. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (Xbox 360) -- 383, 200
3. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (Wii) -- 286,300
4. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/ guitar (PlayStation 2) -- 271,100
5. The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (Nintendo DS) -- 262,800
6. Wii Play w/ remote (Wii) -- 239,700
7. The Orange Box (Xbox 360) -- 238,400
8. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock w/o guitar (PlayStation 2) -- 231,700
9. FIFA Soccer 08 (PlayStation 2) -- 129,700
10. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day (Nintendo DS) -- 116,900
quote:Well, actually Guitar Hero III for the PS2 outsold Halo 3 but they report the game alone separately from the bundle. GHIII totalled 502,800 for the PS2 (something like 1.4 million over all formats) and it was only out for 6 days of this period.
Originally posted by twinky:
The Halo 3 juggernaut continues to top the charts...[/QB]
quote:I agree, but I think he also posts them at NeoGAF.
Originally posted by Bokonon:
ChrisFOM's analysis in ars' forums is better. They should really add him to the staff for these things.
quote:Wait, so the game accurately portrays rock bands?
Originally posted by pooka:
Well, somewhat the band members. The women are scantily clad, but there seems to be just as many complaints about the guys being really creepy looking. Also, the big minotaur with the hammer stage dressing. I think it's actually a devil in some of the "performances" or sometimes an armored knight, which is not as disturbing, but definitely dumb.
quote:My sentiments exactly.
Originally posted by MattP:
quote:Wait, so the game accurately portrays rock bands?
Originally posted by pooka:
Well, somewhat the band members. The women are scantily clad, but there seems to be just as many complaints about the guys being really creepy looking. Also, the big minotaur with the hammer stage dressing. I think it's actually a devil in some of the "performances" or sometimes an armored knight, which is not as disturbing, but definitely dumb.
quote:
Industry Sales
Mar-07 Mar-08 CHG
Total Video Games $1.1B $1.7B 57%
Video Games Hardware $377.9M $551.3M 46%
Video Games Software $579.1M $945.6M 63%
Video Game Accessories $139.5M $220M 58%
HW Sales
Wii 721K
Nintendo DS 698K
PSP 297K
Xbox 360 262K
PlayStation 3 257K
PlayStation 2 216K
SW Sales
WII SUPER SMASH BROS:BRAWL 2700.0K
360 RAINBOW SIX:VEGAS 2 752.3K
360 ARMY OF TWO 606.1K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 409.8K
PSP GOD OF WAR: COO 340.5K
PSP FINAL FANTASY VII:CC 301.6K
WII GUITAR HERO III 264.1K
360 MLB 2K8 237.1K
360 COD4 237.0K
PS3 ARMY OF TWO 224.9K
quote:Not to my knowledge. Harmonix games don't have a history of PC ports. Guitar Hero was the first (and only, so far), and the PC port was done by another company.
Originally posted by Noemon:
Ooh, is Rock Band scheduled to be ported to the PC? If so, I'm going to have to invest in a huge monitor.
quote:Cool. Thanks. I'm pretty close to the "recommended" spec.
Originally posted by MEC:
Sterling:
http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/834/mass-effect-system-requirements-revealed