This is exactly the right thing to do. I know Japan had Lunar ambitions and I am sure Europe would be on board this time. Any predictions how much money they will contribute? Will Russia compete or come along? A combined Russian/Chinese mission might actually have the moxie to do something. If they set aside 100 billion now and make it untouchable by future administrations the interest can carry the mission through.
Maybe we can inspire Iraq and perhaps Israel to join in. It would be cool to see us all working together for something.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, like Iraq has the money or the time to worry about space travel at the moment, or Israel.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Iraq could contribute manpower 18 years of training should get them up to speed as astronauts (as long as they do not have to do security...), Israel could spare us their finest 24 Jewish investment bankers to watch the 100 Billion and make sure the interest pays the bills...
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I'd be very excited by a multi-national moon mission. And hey, why not Iraq? They can toss in a few bucks if they want.
I'm not really seeing the possibility of setting aside $100 billion and having that accrue interest so we can afford the $500 - $800 billion required for a permanent settlement (according to the article.
Governments are notoriously bad at setting aside money to earn interest. If we had that kind of discipline, we'd have funded Social Security without any problems. Also, you don't pay the $500 billion at the end...you spend as you go. Setting that money aside means we don't start until the right amount has built up.
Might as well just invest in our economic vitality and just borrow against the future if we're really going to make this a permanent thing. The costs could be amortized over the expected life of the base.
(of course, we also need to look at a maintenance budget, and the cost of resupply...)
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Manpower is hardly an issue, certainly not for astronauts! Computer programmers, maybe, although again the issue of trust arises. Janitors would be more likely.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Wow...are you two just trying to see who can come up with the most blatantly stereotypic generalization or do you really think that kind of statement is funny or clever?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
They could drive that vehicle that pulls the shuttle! or build those block houses that protect from the blast force, they should be dead bang on that...
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Hum? I'm saying that an American Moon effort would be way more likely to hire Iraqis as janitors than as astronauts. I did not say anything about which job Iraqis would be more qualified for.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
I am thinking more of breaking the interest into payouts to competing companies for project development, the way the Japanese government encourages new technology, Offer some sort of extended patent rights incentives and let R&D run wild, reigning the payments in to the company getting the most done toward the objective. This time it needs to be done as much more of a partnership with multinational corporations with clear incentives and entitlements to valuable assets to offset the burden of entry barriers and R&D. The US government gave the Railroads vast amounts of land and in exchange opened up the West all the way to California so there is a precedent.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Just which valuable assets would you like to offer as incentives?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
FOB Shipping Point for one obviously...
Movie rights, mining rights, broadcasting channels, advertising space, patent fast-tracking, tax incentives, draft protection, whatever it takes to get them all gaggling in the right direction.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Don't we have a treaty forbidding mining on the moon, like for Antarctica?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Sort of, it is more like, the body that is able to offer mining rights is the UN not any one nation. It is silly to think of the whole thing as a preserve, it has as much land area then the Earth, the whole thing cannot be a park. Basically we will have to bribe the UN for the rights and then sell them...
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
There's a treaty saying no nation-state owns the moon. Mining rights may or may not be affected. In practice, you probably own whatever parts of the moon you can enforce your claim on; but since it'll only be the rich nation-states going there, and they will have worked out an arrangement for sharing the profit beforehand, the issue should not arise.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
More likely, people will go there and start claiming stuff while such a deal is still being hammered out, hoping to get a big foothold before any deal is finished. It's doubtful that China, the US and Europe, arguably the biggest powers involved in the issue will settle on anything. Russia might be the most advanced other than Europe and the US, but they can't afford to do anything.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Will the moon people dress like Quakers?
Posted by Homestarrunner (Member # 5090) on :
Only when they're inside their pressurized habitats.
My only concern is that some idiot company is going to somehow secure the rights to use the moon as the ultimate billboard.
Posted by Mig (Member # 9284) on :
I just hope that they don't use the moon to store any explosive nuclear materials because that could lead to a terrible accident.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_1999 Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Why should there be a moonbase?
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I'm really excited about this.
I have what's probably a stupid question, but the article doesn't address it. Will the base grow at least some of it's own food? I'm not a scientist, but isn't it theorectically possible for a base like this to become self sustaining in food an oxygen if crops are growing? Or is that just science fiction?
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: I have what's probably a stupid question, but the article doesn't address it. Will the base grow at least some of it's own food? I'm not a scientist, but isn't it theorectically possible for a base like this to become self sustaining in food an oxygen if crops are growing? Or is that just science fiction?
Thanks! That's really interesting.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
My question is the same as Will B's.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
The first experiment was particularly interesting, even beyond what's mentioned in that link (though hinted at).
The glass used at the project had a particular tint to it that adversely affected Bees abilities to navigate and gather pollen, so as a species in the Biosphere they all but died out. Unfortunately, they were being relied upon to pollinate the various plants they were experimenting with and growing for food. The result is that non-flowering plants become a staple, such as Bananas and Sweet Potatoes mentioned in the article. Even so, the physical health wasn't a concern in the first experiment until low-levels of oxygen deprivation started to occur.
It wasn't mentioned, but the second try at the experiment ended when one of the people inside the Biosphere injured themselves fairly badly, and they opened the door to bring in additional medical personnel. I believe the second try just stopped at that day after the fairly well publicized failure of the first.
Oh, and the lungs used to control expansion / contraction of the building are indeed an incredible feat of engineering and imagination.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
They should just make the biosphere painted like an M&M, the lunar rover covered with Nike Swooshes, and have all the astronauts drink Coke on camera each time we check in on them, and the mission will be fully funded.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
quote:Originally posted by Will B: Why should there be a moonbase?
Because eventually Humans are going to severely damage the earth. This damage likely will not be permanent, but while 100,000 years isn't much to the earth, it'll take its toll on everything living on the planet.
Moonbases (and by extension marsbases and colony ships) are a good way to save species less adaptable than ourselves, if not ourselves if it really hits the fan.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
They should call it Moonbase Alpha.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Nah, it's not like we'd store nuclear waste there. At least not while we have Nevada.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Homestarrunner: Only when they're inside their pressurized habitats.
My only concern is that some idiot company is going to somehow secure the rights to use the moon as the ultimate billboard.
Even if they did...who'd ever see it?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
I think he is talking about "visible from Earth" signs.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Chairface?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
A sign visible from the earth would have to be as big as an entire continent. Why do that?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
sales!
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: and have all the astronauts drink Coke on camera each time we check in on them, and the mission will be fully funded.
I suspect that this is an extremely bad idea in free fall, since all that gas is not going to bubble up and out of your intestines, but instead stay right where it is, and presumably go into the bloodstream and knock you out. Or, if you're lucky, merely make the spaceship somewhat unlivable.
As for the sign as big as a continent, dude, you're expecting rationality from marketing people?
Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
Starbucks already has plans for a store there.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
If the purpose of a moonbase is to save species, I'd recommend more work on the human, and non-human, genome projects, instead, to record the genes. Let's just say Biosphere II suggested we have a long way to go before we can get a stable microecology.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samuel Bush: Starbucks already has plans for a store there.
Well, good. I mean, if I'm gonna live there, I need my frappucinos. I'm not a caveman! Someone point me to the Hard Rock Cafe: Moon.
-pH
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: Chairface?
Heh, I was thinking along those lines too.
Sadly, if Starbucks only got as far as Chairface, it'd probably only say "Star" on it, which wouldn't really help anyone. It'd just be a mislabeled stellar body.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: Chairface?
Heh, I was thinking along those lines too.
Sadly, if Starbucks only got as far as Chairface, it'd probably only say "Star" on it, which wouldn't really help anyone. It'd just be a mislabeled stellar body.
Well, at least Pluto could sit in the back of the Solar System and laugh at the joke.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Can you imagine "This one small step brought to you by Paxil, the little pill that makes eveything better..."