All right, so I admit it, I cheat and take shortcuts. It's been some time since I've made an actual real chicken soup from scratch.
What I generally end up doing is getting a storebought rotisserie chicken and then saying "what a shame to waste these bones, I think I'll use them for soup." Now I know, I know that they are already cooked and most of the goodness is gone and you can't make a serious stock with them. So I make a semi serious stock and then add my veggies, chicken, whatever, and supplement with a carton or can of chicken broth and some rice or pasta.
And I always strain the "stock" and put it in the fridge and skim off the fat when it's cold. And what's left is generally quite a thick gel. I know that that gelatin is from the chicken bones.
OK, so how come this time when I did it it didn't gel? I boiled those bones forever, along with some veggie scraps as usual -- a quartered onion and couple ribs of celery and some carrots.
Just curious--I'm quite sure nothing important is at stake if I don't get an answer. But since I know there are a number of accomplished cooks here I thought I'd ask.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I use storebought rotisserie chicken bones too. Then I use the stock for rice or pasta. Maybe you boiled it too long? Was it more than an hour?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
've been doin' the same, and been recently wondering "Why doesn't it gel?" myself.
Also noticing a different taste/texture in precooked chicken, which makes me think that brining* is now the industrial standard for storebought rotisserie chicken.
Not experienced enough in gels myself, but perhaps one of our bio/chem people know of the effect of excess salt on gels. Maybe a process that lowers the effective freezing point of water also decreases the temperature at which gels will set.
Then again, there has also been a push toward pressure-treating meat with carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide to preserve a fresh/red appearance**. Even though the industry claims it's just a cosmetic surface treatment, I also wonder if that could be soaking into the cartilage, in turn affecting the gelling process.
* Soaked in a concentrated salt solution, often under high pressure in industrial settings; which incidentally adds about 15% more weight to the finished product than unbrined chicken. Besides that meat adulteration, some consumer groups are complaining that the switch toward brined chicken is having negative consequences for those on sodium-restrictive diets
** Enough so that some consumer groups are complaining that the long-lasting redness may be making it more difficult for the consumer to detect spoiling meat.
[ November 11, 2006, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Sorry. I don't have what this calls for...some kind of stock answer.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Mutant chickens!
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
Um...what's the correct way to make stock? I just take the chicken carcass and boil the living daylights out of it along with veggies :\.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
It probably is the salt content... salt lowers the freezing temperature of water. Since the gel from your stock is probably mostly water, and the gel is probably a "slush" extra salt may have lowered the freezing point enough that the slush never formed.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It's quite possible that you weren't using the pieces with all the cartilage in them (wings and the joint between the thigh and leg, most noticeably.) Also, a lot of that stuff runs out from the store-bought chickens; be sure to dump whatever has run out onto the plate into the pot. Also, I've noticed a lot of cracked bones in the chickens I've been getting, and the liquefied marrow running out. I think that may contribute to the "gel-ness" as well (it certainly does to the taste!)
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote:Originally posted by ladyday: Um...what's the correct way to make stock? I just take the chicken carcass and boil the living daylights out of it along with veggies :\.
I think that the usual technique is to start with an uncooked chicken, some meat still on the bones, to get the optimum flavor.
I just made soup out of it. It kinda tastes weird to me, but my mom says it's good. I think some of the celery I used in the stock was bitter. Also, it was a lemon-pepper rotisserie chicken; usually, I do it with a barbecue flavored chicken. It's very sweet tasting, which I guess is the combination of the lemon and the too much tarragon (oops) that I put in there. But I did something different this time--I added barley to it. I really like it. It's not the pearled barley, nor is it 100% whole grain, but something in between. So it's a bit chewier than the pearled barley.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
When picking out celery at the grocery store, smell the stem. If it smells, it's bitter. If it doesn't smell, it isn't. Posted by BearMountainBooks (Member # 9850) on :
In my experience, the store rotisserie chickens have either honey or sugar in them (or both)--that is partly where you get the sweet taste. Walmart chickens are smaller, saltier and sweeter than some other stories.
The lack of gel is usually caused by adding too much water/too little bones/chicken.
I make stock from rotisserie chicken all the time--but one chicken doesn't produce much stock--about 4 cups. You can barely cover the chicken with water and then have to let some of that water boil off. The more you boil, the stronger the flavor because you're condensing it.
In general for one pot of soup (for two people with some leftover) I need two rotisserie chickens.
You can also marinate chicken thighs and bake them in the oven.
If you have made your own stock and want to supplement it, just use the swansons chicken broth in the can. It dilutes the flavor, but it can stretch that one rotisserie chicken to enough for a pot of soup.
Also with Thanksgiving coming up, the old turkey carcass is much bigger--and you'll get a nice pot of stock out of it!!! Do the same thing--just barely cover the carcass and let it boil on down. Add a touch of honey, salt to taste, maybe a bit of soy sauce and the veggies and herbs you like (thyme, sage, tarragon, celery).
Yum!
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
KoM, you joke about mutant chickens, but one of my highschool teachers did experiments on mutating chickens or odd breeding programs or somesuch (he had some that were seriously 3' tall or more)
oh Fr. Phil you crazy old coot...
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Uprooted, I have a pot of stock simmering on the stove with the carcass of the rotisserie chicken I bought tonight. I'm blaming you. This is going to keep me up too late until it's done. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Gel? Take a whole, uncut chicken, put it in a pot with water covering it, add an onion and some garlic cloves and a few chopped carrots (if you want), and boil it until the whole thing is incredibly rich and chickeny. Like 8-10 hours, at least.
Then put it in the fridge overnight, and the next day, skim off the fat from the top, and cook it yet some more. Maybe another 4-5 hours.
That's chicken soup. You can strain it if you just want the broth. It's a deep, golden brown, and it will cure anything.
To get it even more amazing, take a turkey, cut out the back and the legs, and use that instead of a chicken. It will melt your heart.
Making a broth from just bones... that seems like making a broth from stones to me. <shrug>
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Try making broth from just meat, and you'll agree that stone soup is the better alternative.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: Uprooted, I have a pot of stock simmering on the stove with the carcass of the rotisserie chicken I bought tonight. I'm blaming you. This is going to keep me up too late until it's done.
I've found a whole new set of scapegoats here at Hatrack for all too many of my work- and sleep-avoiding ways, so by all means, blame away -- I can take it!!
Hope the soup came out good!
Lisa, one of these days I'll actually do that. It really is the best soup.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
If you have a recipe which calls for boneless skinless chicken fillets or for chicken chunks (eg for stir fry), and are willing* to start from whole fresh chicken... Just use the "waste" skin&bones&fat, wing-tips, back, and neck (the most flavorful meat on the chicken) and follow Lisa's recipe. Drain the broth into a separate container, pick out and dispose the remaining unwanted bone, skin etc. Recombine. The result will actually be better than if you had included the filleted/chunked meat.
* The hardest part. I mean c'mon... The bunch of us are so lazy / "ewwww...that was live once" / time-short / ADDed(me) that we ain't willing to roast a chicken from scratch, let alone deepfry, even though home-cooked is MUCH better than any precooked.
[ November 15, 2006, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
We have a George Jr. Of the gadgets we have tried, the George Jr. and our bread machine are probably the biggest timesavers and most often used.
You put foil on the reflector and the tray, impale a whole chicken (you actually need to truss it a bit with string, just so that the legs don't flap out and bump into the heating element, but that's not a big deal), sprinkle it with oregano and garlic powder and black pepper, and let it go. An hour or so later, you have the most incredibly succulent roast/rotisserie chicken in the world. Most of the grease has dripped out onto the tray, so it's actually lower in calories, too.
I'm lazy. I like gadgets that let me be lazy. I'd do an informercial for this one.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Not deepfry, pan fry. So. good. My problem is a combination of lazy and it doesn't seem worth it cooking for one.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Sorry. I don't have what this calls for...some kind of stock answer.
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