But there will be in an hour.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
An hour!? Damn east coast people. I don't get to watch it for another 2 and 1/2 hours.
Somehow, despite the fact that Lost is perhaps my favorite show right now, this season premiere snuck up on me. I saw a commercial for the premeire on Sunday and thought "What?! Really?!?! Awesome!!!" And yes, I really do think with that level of emphasis.
I hope season 3 is as good or better than season 1.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I watched season 1, but got lost in season 2 Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
Well that was pretty much anticlimactic. I kept hearing radio adverts for it.
"DONT MISS THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OF LOST ON ABC... YOU'LL GET HOOKED ONE MORE TIME!!!!"
Yeah tonite's episode was lame, EXCEPT for the first five minutes.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
hmmmm...nothing really happened! We learned almost nothing new whatsoever! All we got was that The Others were living comfortably in a little village when the plane crashed. And that was in the first 5 minutes!
Seriously. I'm kind of dissapointed.
What happened to Desmond? Are Locke and Echo alive? What's up with Charlie? Is Hurley on his way back? Why Jack, Kate, and Sawyer? Why didn't Jack ask what's her face why her people killed his friends? And those are only questions from last years' season finale. Let alone the tons of other questions from the past two seasons.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
ha. i'm glad i didn't get too upset that i missed it... Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Are we sure they are still not living in suburbia? That was freaky! I think they still are, but have hidden the evidence somehow?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I assume they're still living in suburbia. Maybe they're the next generation of an old Dharma utopia experiment?
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
I want a fish biscuit.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
What was that Dharma logo on the canopy top near Sawyer's zoo cage? It looked to me like a scorpion or something. I would think it would be the Hydra or something though since that's where Jack is being kept.
I really liked this episode. We may not have learned tons of new stuff after the first 5 minutes, but I think that first 5 minutes was just a lot to take in.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
So it's obvious there is tension between Book Club Lady and "Henry Gale," (did I catch that his name is Ben?). So is this chick going to help Jack? Rebel against the others? And where the crap are they getting all their information from?
I was disappointed that the episode focused so much on Jack's relationship with his ex-wife. Good backstory, I suppose, but c'mon, the season premiere?
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I have to say how relieved I am that Jack's Dad wasn't together with Sara...I knew it couldn't be true but it was still niggling in the back of my brain that maybe...
I liked this episode. I thought there were some interesting bits brought up. The shark/dolphin tank. The suburbia was an interesting twist. I have no clue about Sawyer and the fish biscuit though. Do you think much time passed between when we saw Kate on the beach with "Ben" and when she was put in the cage? I didn't get why she was so hungry and teary...maybe I missed something.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
Maybe she was sad about the fish biscuit having to sacrifice itself to Sawyer.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I assumed it was at least a day or two.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Why the heck did Jack make a break for a door which may or may not have led to the outside armed with only a piece of broken plate? I think he would've gotten a lot further had he kept his hostage.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
Jack wasn't thinking straight. He was very hungry, and very dehydrated.
Maybe if he had a fish biscuit, he would have been able to think more clearly.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Frisco, considering how Ben/Henry Gale bailed on her and slammed the door in her face when the deluge started, a hostage might not be worth much.
I wonder what happened to Kate in between the civilized breakfast and when she was put in the cage across from Sawyer with cuts on her wrist? She was wearing the same dress, I assume it was the same day.
Also, what's up with the guy who escaped temporarily? Is he an Other, a former Other, a plant to trick Sawyer into trusting him?
Heh. A Former Other--sounds like an existentialist garage band.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Why do Jack's Ex, Desmond's true love, and this new woman all look the same!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Morbo, I was thinking the same thing about the kid in the cage across from sawyer. As well as about what that Julliete lady was doing the whole episode. I mean, from the beginning they make her out to be different from the other Others, but i still was trying to figure out why she was talking to him, what the purpose was behind it. And I figured it was some sort of test/game, to see if she could get Jack to trust her.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I thought the kid in the cell looked a lot like the guy fixing Juliet's pipes.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Goodwin told AL that he didn't have kids, I believe. But then, when have we been able to trust the Others?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
AP's summary of the Lost premiere.
Posted by RackhamsRazor (Member # 5254) on :
It may have just been me, but did anyone catch the guy on the table when Jack was watching his father talking to Sara in the hospital and Jack's nurse was asking him what to do about the patient? To me, it looked like the other with the fake beard (Tom?). I could be wrong, but I was just wondering if anyone else caught that.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: I thought the kid in the cell looked a lot like the guy fixing Juliet's pipes
The guy fixing her pipes was Ethan from Season 1.
I thought the whole thing was a mind game.
Sawyer is a monkey in a cage doing tricks for food and getting shocked if he does it the wrong way. They let him think he's escaping only to capture him again easily.
They clean Kate up, put her in a nice dress and give her a good breakfast just to say "Oh by the way, the next 2 weeks is going to be hell for you."
Julianne is getting Jack to trust her. The Others knew that Jack and Julianne wouldn't die if he opened the door. But it looks to Jack like they were going to let her die to so maybe, just maybe, she's someone he can trust.
Posted by Mig (Member # 9284) on :
Did anyone else notice the music when they were draging Sawyer back into the cage? Was it it just my imagination, or didn't it sounded a lot like the music from the Planet of the Apes. At least that is how it sounded to me.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I couldn't believe that Jack, Kate, and Sawyer never felt like asking "Why in the heck are you doing this to us? What is wrong with you people?" They all seemed content to let whatever was going on keep going on. No questions for the captives? No serious escape attempts?
I figured Kate for kicking Henry's ass on the beach. Come on Kate, you've got a fork, slap those handcuffs on him and stab him in the face. Jack couldn't pick up the stunner after he grabbed the plate?
I'm still looking forward to the season, but this episode seemed weak in a lot of ways.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: I couldn't believe that Jack, Kate, and Sawyer never felt like asking "Why in the heck are you doing this to us? What is wrong with you people?" They all seemed content to let whatever was going on keep going on. No questions for the captives? No serious escape attempts?
I figured Kate for kicking Henry's ass on the beach. Come on Kate, you've got a fork, slap those handcuffs on him and stab him in the face. Jack couldn't pick up the stunner after he grabbed the plate?
I'm still looking forward to the season, but this episode seemed weak in a lot of ways.
Jack actually did ask "whats going on here". Juliette didnt answer and walked out of the room.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
From the book club bit at the beginning, the guy who was brutalizing the Stephen King book (anyone notice a title?) said, IIRC, "C'mon, I mean I know the host gets to choose the book, but Ben wouldn't wipe his a** with this" or something to that effect, at which Juliet pounced with her statement of, "Well I am the host and this is my favorite book and I'm thrilled that you hate it." It makes it seem like Juliet has some serious issues with people who seem to hero worship "Ben."
My guess is there was some sort of Stalin-esque take over of the remnants of the Dharma inititive. Notice Zeke's big bubbas escorting Kate to the beach? And how Zeke is always really respectful around Ben? Ben's got this secret police force and enough kow-towing idolizers (like book club guy) that he's managed to seize power. But there are dissidents (like Juliet) who have to walk the narrow line between outright dissent and facile cooperation.
Or at least, that's what I'm hoping, cause that would be an interesting arc IMO. BTW, did the lady who manipulated Michael show up anywhere in last night's episode? I didn't see her.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I didn't notice the title of the book, but I did notice a spot where a digital copy of the show and some zoom would be greatly beneficial.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
While Ben/Henry Gale seems to be in charge somewhat, there still has to be someone above him. If you remember in Season 2 when he was locked up, Henry Gale said something like "You have no idea what he'll do." So it looks like the hierarchy goes "him" (who has been referenced several times), then Ben/Henry Gale, then maybe Tom (who Sawyer calls Zeke), and then everyone else. Of course, Henry Gale could have been lying when he said that line when he was locked up, although I find it doubtful as why would he as leader go on the mission to scout out the camp (which was sort of risky what with the deaths of Ethan and Goodwin and all).
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
i was pretty sure he was lying.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: While Ben/Henry Gale seems to be in charge somewhat, there still has to be someone above him. If you remember in Season 2 when he was locked up, Henry Gale said something like "You have no idea what he'll do." So it looks like the hierarchy goes "him" (who has been referenced several times), then Ben/Henry Gale, then maybe Tom (who Sawyer calls Zeke), and then everyone else. Of course, Henry Gale could have been lying when he said that line when he was locked up, although I find it doubtful as why would he as leader go on the mission to scout out the camp (which was sort of risky what with the deaths of Ethan and Goodwin and all).
I dunno, I really think Henry/Ben is "The Man". The Others are all about making things look natural. Ben most likely gave himself up to be captured by Russeau so they could cause a chain reaction, therefore getting the whole 'trade' thing up and running.
Then last night you see how Jack finally (sorta) trusts Juliette, she walks out and then gets a 'good job' from Ben.
I really think he's the leader.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I think some of you have forgotten the pacing in Lost, especially since 2nd season. They didn't start throwing things at you really fast until towards the end of 2nd season. It can be SLOW and it can be FAST. The preview for the next episode seemed to indicate BIG development. It also seemed to indicate that Jack is going to find out just whats going on, as they show a scene with Jack and Henry talking inside Jack's cell.
WHAT WAS UP WITH KATE MAKING OUT WITH SAWYER?!
I never believed Jack's dad was involved with Jack's wife, it just didnt seem to fit right. I hated the fact that it was Jack who drove his father back to the bottle and (unless the show says otherwise) eventually drove him to Sydney and death. It makes me feel so sorry for Jack, he's had it pretty rough IMO.
I agree the blond girls are getting hard to tell apart. I can't quite put my finger down on Julliane, its really hard to figure out what she thinks she is doing.
Are the others trying to break Sawyer, Kate, and Jacks wills so as to recruit them?
I really liked Sawyer in the episode, Sawyer = The Man.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
you do have a point. but at the same time, in the first episode of last season we're introduced to Desmond, the hatch, the training video, the magnetic field, the computer, the button pushing, etc...I was given no new mysterious Island stuff yesterday and I was given no answers to old mysterious island stuff, which = disapointment.
[ October 06, 2006, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I can't wait to get back to Locke and and the rest of em. Next week will be crazy.
Now why would they have bear cages (remember Polar Bear) at the Dharma place to study problem solving, hmmm?
And really, how would the bear have figured out how to trigger all three levers to get the food? The bears wouldn't even understand the significance of the buttons and levers, so why would they care.
That bothered me.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
why wouldn't a bear have been able to figure that out? rats figure out the same type of things. And I think that's why Sawyer asked how many bears there were. Assuming, correctly i'd think, that there was more than one bear in that cage and they had to work together to figure it out and he had to do it by himself.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
If coca-cola ads have taught us anything, it's that polar bears are pretty darn intelligent.
I didn't dislike the episode, but it was far from stellar for a season premiere. Also, I don't really like Jack all that much. To me, he's probably the least interesting person on the island, and his back story sucks. Last night's addition made it ever worse. What kind of idiot would jump to the conclusion that his father was sleeping with his ex-wife based on the evidence (or lack thereof) that Jack had. Are we still supposed to respect his intelligence after this?
I also don't buy his being so obsessed about finding out who his ex-wife is seeing. It doesn't really seem to be in character, and when they were together they didn't seem happy at all.
I'm actually mostly interested in Desmond's story, and I hope they get into that pretty soon.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Oh, and over on ABC's Lost message board, there seems to be unanimous agreement that the Stephen King book was Carrie.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I still have to disagree about him being Ben/Henry Gale. Ben wasn't the only to reference him. If Ben was him, why would Tom and the rest let him go on the spying mission (which again is obviously very dangerous given the fates of Ethan and Goodwin)? I really don't think it was to initiate a trade, since the Others had Michael before Ben got captured by Rousseau (which they could have used in trade or as they intended to capture Jack, Kate, and Sawyer).
If he got captured on purpose to initiate a trade, then why didn't the Others respond to Jack when he and Kate went into the jungle and he yelled for hours? I think it's because they didn't want to trade. They sent Michael back to free Ben (who they now know is captured) and to collect Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley.
As I said, I really don't think Ben was lying about him. Just because we are being lead to believe that he might have been doesn't mean he was (it could very well be misdirection). There's still quite a list of possible candidates for him, and that list will only get narrowed down as we learn more about who the Others really are.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Julianne is getting Jack to trust her. The Others knew that Jack and Julianne wouldn't die if he opened the door. But it looks to Jack like they were going to let her die to so maybe, just maybe, she's someone he can trust."
I agree with this. Also, I think of what a friend of mine said about doing family therapy with very dysfunctional families. She said it is often the person who seems to have it most together who is the craziest.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
I'm with Fitz.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I never read Carrie, but wasn;t she psychic? Ben and co. sort of seem psychic to me. Psychotically so. Is there a term for that? Psychicotic.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
psychotically psychic I like it
edt: spelling lol
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
As for KAte. I had a really bad feeling when they put her in the cage. Was she raped? I was thinking about the handcuffs. Ew. I hope not!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I don't think the show would go there. I assume she was just roughed up a bit. At least I hope so!
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
I was fascinated with the season premiere, and I'd never seen an episode before.
It impressed me. I expected it to be the same dumb primetime stuff. Turns out it's a little smarter than that.
My friends have lent me the first two seasons and given me a week to catch up. I might have to start pencilling "Lost watching" into my daily schedule.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
I can't believe we aren't discussing the fish biscuit. I thought it was one of the most fascinating new characters yet to be introduced, but I want to know more. When did it join the DHARMA Initiative? How did it come to be on the island? Was its fate always to be eaten shortly after being introduced? Does it have any companion biscuits, and when will we see them? What is its significance in the overall narrative?
Truly, a baffling development.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: Also, what's up with the guy who escaped temporarily? Is he an Other, a former Other, a plant to trick Sawyer into trusting him?
I think he's a fake. I think he was the guy working on Juliet's plumbing at the very beginning of the ep.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: From the book club bit at the beginning, the guy who was brutalizing the Stephen King book (anyone notice a title?)
It was Carrie. I thought, from the way it was described, that it was The Stand, but it was too thin. When I ran it back and stop-framed it, it was clearly Carrie.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: So it looks like the hierarchy goes "him" (who has been referenced several times), then Ben/Henry Gale, then maybe Tom (who Sawyer calls Zeke)
Any chance that Tom is Thomas Mittelwerk?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Not in my opinion. I think the two look too different.
As for who was working on Juliet's plumbing at the beginning, I couldn't really tell, but a lot of other people are saying it was Ethan for sure. Take that for what you will.
Posted by akhockey (Member # 8394) on :
I just went back and watched the beginning on iTunes, and there's no question that the pipe-fixer was Ethan. He stands up from the pipes and you can clearly see his face through the fence/bars.
***Spoilers Season 2: Episode 1*** (For anybody who hasn't seen)
Also, this episode isn't *that* much different from the first episode of Season 2. We are introduced to Desmond/The Hatch, we are introduced to Juliette/Hydra Station. We don't see what happened to Sawyer/Jin/Michael, we don't see what happened to Locke/Echo/Charlie. We get a hostage situation with Locke, we get a hostage situation with Juliette. With Locke, Jack says he doesn't care if Desmond kills him. With Julietter, Ben says he doesn't care if Jack kills her.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Is anybody else happy that Nathan Fillion is going to be in 2 episodes of this season of Lost?
I want to know about the danged button. If the Others know the button keeps them safe(if it really does), then why don't they have someone to push it? Or do they use Desmond, the first guy, and now Locke, etc. to push it?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't know that the Others knew about the button before Henry Gale/Ben got captured. They know about it now though. If Ben was telling the truth to Locke though and he didn't push the button during lockdown, then maybe he thinks it's not a real concern (even though we know it is).
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Is anybody else happy that Nathan Fillion is going to be in 2 episodes of this season of Lost?
I know I am Does anybody else think that Nathan looks a bit like Ethan?
And their names are almost anagrams.
But Nathan is way cuter.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: I want to know about the danged button.
It's an Easy button. If they press it, staplers and sticky notes will fall from the sky.
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
I think it's official, I'm happy with just "hearing about" what happens now.
That was the weakest season 3 premiere ever. I'm tired of the sheer random bull they're putting in. Yeah it "relates" kinda maybe...
Flashbacks are officially boring now. We KNOW who Jack is we've spent 2 seasons with him. Can we move the story events a little quicker?
Guess not. ABC luvs the cow.
<Edited out profanity --PJ>
[ October 11, 2006, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Crazy stuff, particularly at the end. So it's confirmed that the Others do have contact with the outside world. Also they may have been there for a long time (what with Ben saying he had been there his whole life).
I'm really looking forward to next week's episode as well. While I like my Others stuff, I did want to see the other side of the island again.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I thought it was interesting what Sawyer said about the blond woman, that she would have shot Kate, no problem.
And what is up with the love triangle between the to blond women and that horrid Ben?
Also, I forgot to tape the show for my husban d, an avid Red Sox fan. I am in big, big trouble.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Sayid's plan was ridiculously stupid. If the others have outsmarted them at every turn, how could he possibly think a 2-man ambush was going to be successful?
Leaving Sun in the boat, unprotected...
Needless to say, I groaned.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I agree. When I heard Sayid's plan, I was like "I don't care how much army training you have, you can't pull of a 2 man ambush against an unknown number of Others. It just won't work."
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
First of all, I squealed when Henry Gale/Ben showed the footage of the Red Sox winning the World Series, and I laughed hysterically when Jack didn't believe him at first.
I agree with the fact that Sayid's plan was stupid. Seriously, I would have thought him smarter than that.
I'm not sure about the kid in the other cage, or where he went. I have a feeling he's an Other, but I'm not entirely sure.
The plumber fixing Juliette's house WAS Ethan. I'm sure of it.
The thing I'm really wondering is who blelieves that Sun's child is actually Jin's, or whether it's Jae's. Because, it seems impossible that Jin could father a child from what we've seen, and yet Sun didn't have any morning sickness until about 1.5 months later. How do you explain that?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think Jin is the father. With the sort of healing properties of the island (with Locke being able to walk and Rose's cancer going away), it's not far fetched to believe that Jin's problem was fixed.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
maybe we'll eventually find out that Locke's disability was really all mental the whole time, and that there was nothing physically wrong with him.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The whole Jin/Sun/Sayid part of the episode was a waste. None of the actions made sense, there was no real plot progressions, seemed like a bunch of filler and an excuse to put in more back story for Sun.
I love LOST, but so far, Season 3 is dissapointing me. They're dragging everything out too much. How many scenes do we need of Jack being a cry-baby in the tank and Sawyer hanging out in a cage? Get to the point already! I felt like I was out there breaking rocks.
Speaking of which, even considering that they've been semi-industrious on the island, I don't think Kate could spend several hours working a pick without having her hands completely blistered.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
I don't think Ben knows about Desmond. He didn't know about the sailboat, which shows that there are serious gaps in the Others' espionage machine.
And I'm glad they didn't abandon the fish biscuit. That's totally the best thing about season 3 so far.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I thought Sawyer was hilarious. I love his smart mouth and nick names for everyone. He broke it up enough that I wasn't bored (edit: "bored" probably isn't the right word because I love Lost but it has left a lot to be desired).
I did think it was interesting that Jin can suddenly understand English so well that he could figure out the sabotage the Others plan. It seemed too convenient to the plot that he waited until that point to reveal this rather than gradually as he progressed at learning the language.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
It didn't seem like that big of a shock to me. He's gotten better at English over time, occasionally saying things in English and sort of nodding that he understands when others talk to him (particularly in season 2). Heck, he said "I love you" in English to Sun last season. It doesn't surprise me that he could put things together when overhearing what Sun and Sayid were talking about (I mean pick out key words he probably knows and you get a very rudimentary idea of what's going on and I think Jin's smart enough to extrapolate from there).
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Did anyone notice Trixie was in last night's episode? I kept expecting her to offer to pay for something "Or you can take it out in ****"
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
pfresh85, I guess that's true about Jin getting better and better in his English skills, I would have thought that Sayid and Sun would've tried a little harder to not let him overhear their plans then.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, I would have thought so as well (I mean just because he doesn't speak English doesn't mean he's deaf). I guess they'll have realized that for next time though.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
It was bad writing. Sayid would have known better than to set up an ambush with only 2 people (one of which he had know idea how handy with a gun he was) and left the boat undefended. They all knew the Others had a boat. Why would they assume they'd come by land?
It was a way to make sure they were off the boat. I'd like to think they could have come up with a more plausible reason that they did.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I think it wasn't only overhearing words, but also the *way* in which they were talking and the actions Sayid was taking. I think all those things put together with maybe a few words of English Jin understood helped him figure out what was going on.
I thought the episode was really good, though I am REALLY excited to get back to the other side of the Island and the hatch. But Sawyer was great. Getting a little more inside look at The Other's was interesting. I agree with what Sawyer said about the blonde woman shooting Kate. Even though she's been set up to be really sweet and likeable and at odds with Ben, you can tell there's more going on, especially with that weird love triangle thing. I think it's obvious though that The Others are trying to convert Jack. They've purposefully seperated him from the other two and though he's still locked up, are treating him completely different.
Also, if we can take Rousseau's possible daughter at face value, then the kid we met in the cage across from Sawyer is most likely not an elaborate set up by The Others, but an actual dissenter in The Others community. Which brings up some other questions. Where is Rousseau's daughter living that she's not around for any of this? Where are all the people that The Others have kidnapped?
The Others definitely did NOT know about Desmond. The question is, did they know about what's his face military man that was there?
I was psyched Sun shot that woman. They keep saying THEY'RE the good guys. But they never explain why and keep doing horrible things. If they really were THE GOOD GUYS then they wouldn't have to go about it the way they do.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
"It was bad writing. Sayid would have known better than to set up an ambush with only 2 people (one of which he had know idea how handy with a gun he was) and left the boat undefended. They all knew the Others had a boat. Why would they assume they'd come by land?"
It wasn't exactly that they didn't think they'd come by boat, it's that they thought that capturing them was the objective, not capturing the boat. My guess is that Sayid didn't expect them to just take the boat and run, but find out where he was located. Although, leaving Sun in the boat was rather stupid, even at that.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
"The Others definitely did NOT know about Desmond. The question is, did they know about what's his face military man that was there? "
If they new about the Military man, they would have been keeping tabs on him, and therefor, tabs on Desmond.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
for anyone who wants to have some fun. Go to google and type "Benjamin Linus". click on the sponsored link on the right.
For more fun, click on the "Clients" link at the bottom right.
Read the Newsflash.
For the lazy among us:
quote: Mack Thompson Sues The Hanso Foundation! Mack is proud to finally notify the public that he has formally filed suit againt The Hanso Foundation following the foundation's acquisition of Oceanic Airlines. The lawsuit has been filed against the HansoAir subdivision in the State of California. This lawsuit is the culmination of several years of suspicion surrounding the activities at The Hanso Foundation.
Mack Thompson Law finds this case very important to the people and will release any information we can to the public as it is available. At this time the courts have limited the information that will be released to the public. This is the result of the legal team at Hanso and our legal team will fight this decision. We can release the following information.
On September 29, 2006, our legal team filed a civil suit against a subsidiary of The Hanso Foundation, HansoAir, in the Second District Appellate Court of California. Proceedings will take place in Division Three courts in Los Angeles. You may recall that Los Angeles was to be the destination of Oceanic Airlines Flight 815, a jet liner utilizing a test version of the Artificial Intelligence Piloting System (AIPS) supplied by The hanso Foundation.
Shortly after Oceanic Airlines went backrupt the company was bought out by The Hanso Foundation. Oceanic Airlines and its employees avoided Chapter 11 bankruptcy with the acquisition but many employees found themselves unemployed when the dust settled. Mack Thompson Law has made a connection between each employee terminated and the events surrounding the crash of Flight 815. The allegation put forth is that HansoAir wrongfully terminated over 200 employees due to their possible knowledge of illegal, immoral, and unethical activities committed by The Hanso Foundation.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote: If they new about the Military man, they would have been keeping tabs on him, and therefor, tabs on Desmond.
hmm...good point. But then who did they think was pushing the button?
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: It wasn't exactly that they didn't think they'd come by boat, it's that they thought that capturing them was the objective, not capturing the boat.
He's ex-military. Granted, he's not a tactician, but he should know better than to leave his only means of escape undefended.
I was just wondering about the fact that Desmond caused the plane to come down, but that didn't explain how the plane ended up over the island in the first place. Strider's post clears that up a bit, but that's still a pretty coindidence that the plane's autopilot brought it there just at the right time.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
This show is all about coincidence! It's one of my favorite aspects and I hope it all gets explained in a manner that doesn't suck!
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
quote: I hope it all gets explained in a manner that doesn't suck!
Indeed.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
See I didnt like Sawyers comment about the blond girl being willing to shoot Kate. She had her gun maybe half a foot from Kate's stomach, and she was fixing her eyes on Sawyer.
Kate is a hardened criminal and she definately knows how to handle a gun. How hard would have been for her to disarm the girl holding the gun? Even if not that, simply grabbing at the gun and scuffling for it. Kate knows how to hit people, why would she just stand their helpless and not remove the only obstacle from her and Sawyer having both guns and complete control over that group of others.
Sayids plan was even more pathetic as he had formulated it and not told Sun the details at all. In effect he was planning on ambushing the Others with one of his party completely unaware of his plan. How stupid is that? Did he really think Sun couldnt handle the details?
When Sun had the gun pointed at the woman I felt in my gut that Sun was going to shoot her. It was really satisfying to see Sun step up to the plate and swing. But then that reminded me of Kate just standing their whimpering and I got annoyed again.
The others having access to the outside world completely took me back. I like that development.
I like the show so far, but I will still be happy to get back to Locke, Charlie, Mr Echo, and the defense system/monster.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I understand Sayind not telling Sun until forced. He figured she'd tell Jin, and if so, there was a good chance he'd take the boat home before the ambush. Hence him explaining to her to keep it from Jin a little longer, until there was no going back on the plan.
-Bok
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: I understand Sayind not telling Sun until forced. He figured she'd tell Jin, and if so, there was a good chance he'd take the boat home before the ambush. Hence him explaining to her to keep it from Jin a little longer, until there was no going back on the plan.
-Bok
So his original plan was an ambush with only 1 of the 3 party members aware of the plane? That makes me hate it even more.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
That, or he would only tell them when they had no option to refuse the plan.
-Bok
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:The others having access to the outside world completely took me back. I like that development.
There has been evidence of this for a long time. Last week, the blond girl had an entire folder of information on Jack which she had clearly gotten from the outside. Last season there was food dropped in by parashoot and a washer and dryer in the hatch that were clearly much newer than everything else. There has been evidence for sometime that at least someone in the outside world has been sending stuff to the island.
Even with Ben/Henry's most recent revelation, we have no real evidence of two way communication with the outside world. That is we have reason to believe that the others are getting messages and possibly supplies sent from the outside, but no evidence that they are able to send messages to the outside world.
I would also like to remind people that everything Henry Gale (now Benjamin Linus) said last season, turned out to be a lie. What's more, he was clearly playing mind games with all of the cast aways he met. I see no reason to believe that this is not what he is doing now.
The big problem I see for this show is that for 2+ seasons now, all they have done is introduce questions. Questions about the island, questions about the crash, questions about the others, questions about Dharma . . . They are going to have to start answering these questions soon and as Strider put it "in a manner that doesn't suck". The problem is that it is much harder in fiction to come up with satisfying intriguing answers than to come up with mysterious questions. Somehow the writers need to start revealing parts of the answers enough at a time to make viewers feel like the show is going somewhere and yet not so much to spoil the mystery. Unless they have some sort of over arching plan, that is going to be really hard.
If all they do this season is raise more questions like they did last season, I predict that the show won't have a 4th season and will end up with some really lame 2 hour deus ex machina ending.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
quote: "Lost" (16.6 million, 6.7/17) won the 9 p.m. time period, but was down 2.2 million viewers from last week's season premiere. In the second half, "Criminal Minds" (16.5 million, 4.4/11) outdrew "Lost" by 500,000 viewers. NBC's "The Biggest Loser" averaged 7.4 million viewers and a 3.0/8, while The CW's "One Tree Hill" averaged 3.3 million viewers and a 1.5/4.
I know I'm getting tired of waiting for some sort of answer to at least one of the questons they raised. I can't sustain this level of interest for much longer.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
"hmm...good point. But then who did they think was pushing the button? "
1) He said he has signed up for the Dharma Initiative, which suggest that he worked for The Other's, and therefore they should have known about Desmond.
2) Military Guy was definately under the impression that the button HAD to be pushed, otherwise, he would have told Desmond about the boat and they both could have left. And yet, Ben intentionally tries to get Locke to not push the button. This suggest that Military Guy was not working for the Others.
My guess is that the "Others" didn't exactly know about the Button, or didn't care, which means the button is, unfortunately, meaningless.
It is possible, however, that they were keeping tabs on the military guy and knew about Desmond, BUT the guy NEVER mentioned that the boat was still intact or that he was rebuilding it.
The problem is if they knew about the Button, then they knew about Desmond. If they didn't know about the button, they are not the scientists from the Dharma Initiative.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
My reason for thinking that The Others(or at least Ben) knew about the button is when Ben tries to get Locke to not push it. He says he sat there and watched it count down and nothing happened. It just reset itself. this was obviously a lie. Because we know what happens when the button isn't pushed. I think the reason he told Locke that was all part of the tests they're doing on everybody. And that was a test of Locke's faith.
Also, when Desmond flips the failsafe, Ben is the only one of The Others who seems to know what's going on. The rest are covering their ears and looking around wildly. Ben just looks up with a sort of pissed off look on his face. And then when he can't take the sound anymore covers his ears.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Kate is a hardened criminal and she definately knows how to handle a gun. How hard would have been for her to disarm the girl holding the gun?
My thoughts exactly. She's never shown any difficulty with violent situations in the past. She's shot people, she's fought with people. Unless Juliette has some martial arts training, I don't think Kate would have any problem taking her out. I found it silly that she's been hard as nails up until now, but put her in a dress and she acts submissive.
I was hoping she'd go for the gun and Sawyer would start mowing people down. I'm tired of the others acting like bullies, and the good guys just taking it.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
she'd also been doing hard manual labor for hours. She could've just been exhausted.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I think that the Others didn't know about the button. But, as we saw, this does not make the button meaningless. Perhaps even the Others were duped by that guy in the video. Maybe they all thought it was a psychological experiment, and there's some even bigger authority watching from far away. That's what I betting on. Maybe the Others really AREN'T the bad guys. Hmmmm...... *goes off to ponder this new development*
And also, how did they get those nice suburban houses on the island? Did they hire a construction crew? I'm just a little confused.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Kate is a hardened criminal"
Is she? I thought she shot the person in the bank in more of a panic/self defense situation. I have missed a lot.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
If the others aren't "bad guys", they must be insane. They're certainly not acting like reasonable humans. They kidnap and kill people, stick them in cages, force them to do manual labor, spy on them, etc.
Either they're amoral, and don't care about anyone not in their little society, they're mentally unstable, or they're all sociopaths.
If they were good, decent people, they should have helped the passengers, instead of tormented and hunted them.
My current suspicion is that the Others are essentially criminals, and the island is their jail. They're treated well, they get homes, television, etc. But they're not allowed to leave. I think they want to use the passengers as a way to make a prison break, and just use them for their perverse enjoyment in the mean time.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: "Kate is a hardened criminal"
Is she? I thought she shot the person in the bank in more of a panic/self defense situation. I have missed a lot.
She also setup a bomb to blow up her mothers male interest.
She brutally assaulted the cop who was trying to arrest her when the car crashed.
In first season she had no problem getting the gun out of Sawyers hands and into her own. (this was after Sawyer shot the Polar Bear and we found out he even had a gun.)
Either way I have no extensive fighting skills but if somebody had a gun pointed at me that close and had their attention on my friend also with a gun, I know that the advantage the enemy has is very slight and certainly tables can turn.
At worst: I fail to disarm the person and I scuffle around with them for control of the gun (Sawyer could have put a bullet into the girl if he had a good shot during the scuffle) In a scuffle its not as bad as you think. Even then the fact the girl does not have the gun trained on Kate takes away ALL of her control of the situation.
At Best: The gun is knocked out of the girls hands and its on the ground. Sawyer either controls the entire situation or mows everybody else down. Theres alot of ammo in that gun.
If the girl had a gun to the back of kate's head and was using Kate as a shield that would be more believable. The fact she didnt just shoot Sawyer shows they really dont want to kill him or Kate IMO.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
You mean her father.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ah! I missed that. Which season?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Season 2. the episode is called, imaginatively enough, "What Kate Did".
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: You mean her father.
Thats right, its been awhile since I watched that episode, I was getting fuzzy on the details.
edited my post above for more details/thoughts.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
This whole thing with Kate...that's why I was wondering last week if there had been an amount of time that passed between breakfast on the beach to being put in the cage. If she was abused (although all we saw were the sores from the cuffs), I could see that taking a lot of steam out of her confidence. Abuse does bad things to a person, even one who is somewhat used to surviving.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:She also setup a bomb to blow up her mothers male interest.
hah, this made me think of:
Somebody set up us the bomb!!
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: If the others aren't "bad guys", they must be insane. They're certainly not acting like reasonable humans. They kidnap and kill people, stick them in cages, force them to do manual labor, spy on them, etc.
Either they're amoral, and don't care about anyone not in their little society, they're mentally unstable, or they're all sociopaths.
If they were good, decent people, they should have helped the passengers, instead of tormented and hunted them.
My current suspicion is that the Others are essentially criminals, and the island is their jail. They're treated well, they get homes, television, etc. But they're not allowed to leave. I think they want to use the passengers as a way to make a prison break, and just use them for their perverse enjoyment in the mean time.
Technically, they haven't killed anyone.
Boone died of falling off the cliff with the plane due to Locke's faith. Shannon died of a gunshot by Anna Lucia's premptive need to protect herself and those around her. Anna Lucia and Libby were both killed by Michael's need to rescue Walt. Charlie was hung, but didn't die. Claire was kidnapped with baby, but not harmed.
The other passengers from the backside of the plane have not been confirmed as dead.
Have they been the reason deaths have happened? Yes. Have they actually commited the act? No.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
They may not have pulled the trigger, but they're certainly orchestrating events such that people are likely to be killed. They may very well have intended to kill Charlie.
Didn't the tail end people say that the others killed some of their people? I don't remember if they actually said that, or just made it clear that the others attacked them.
That aside for the moment, they're kidnappers, thieves, and quite violent. I don't see how anyone can claim to be one the good guys while stealing a ship at gunpoint.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
No, they kidnapped nine of the tail section survivors, but they didn't kill anyone.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Godsen did kill what's his name after he let him out of the pit.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
My hatred for the Others is making it difficult for me to watch the show. I wish Sawyer and Kate would go ahead and revolt successfully.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: Godsen did kill what's his name after he let him out of the pit.
Goodwin. And that's right; he snapped his neck like a twig.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by T_Smith: Technically, they haven't killed anyone.
You guys are all forgetting, Scott (or was it Steve) who was killed buy the others during the first season. After Claire escaped and returned to the beach, the others threatened to kill one person per day until she was returned. They killed Scott the first night. I'm trying to remember if they killed anyone else before our castaways set the trap and killed Ethan.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
When they kidnapped Walt, I don't think the Others ever intended for Michael, Sawyer and Jin to survive an exploding boat.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
The Others at the moment haven't given us a whole lot to sympathize with, but I can see how (given the circumstances) they could still consider themselves the good guys despite the actions they've taken. I mean with the Lost Experience this summer, we learned that the DHARMA group has recently unleashed a virus or something targetting certain genetic types that will wipe out about 30% of the two villages it's being tested on. That's a lot of deaths, but they justify it by saying that they know "with mathematical certainty" that those deaths can lead to a change in the core factors of the Valenzetti Equation (the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42 which are attributed to the equation which predicts when humanity will destroy itself), which could lead to the ultimate salvation of humanity. If the Others have a similar view point, that what they are doing (even the deaths and such) is done in order to save the human race, then it wouldn't be surprising that they consider themselves the good guys.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I mean with the Lost Experience this summer, we learned that the DHARMA group has recently unleashed a virus or something targetting certain genetic types that will wipe out about 30% of the two villages it's being tested on.
I'm unfamiliar with the Lost experience. Can someone explain? Is this cannon?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
The others also expected Claire to die from the C-section they were going to perform. I was so happy to see one of the smug, 'you are not going to shoot me, you are not that kind of person...' shrinks get shot by Sun, I actually cheered.
It is clear the Others are shrinks, the seemingly meaningless testing makes that clear. An excersize in applied psycology gone wild, however, it is clear they are afraid of Sayid, and it is inreasingly clear that they desperately want to recruit Jack. It will be even more true if the wound that thier leaders wife took was not immediately fatal. They will certainly be forced to either give Jack lots of slack or twist his arm hard enough that it might make him fight.
I think the Others may well be the 'subjects' of a prolonged psycological test, test subjects who revolted against their masters...
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
In response to the Lost Experience question, I had no idea what it was, and so I wikied it. It explains it a little bit, but I have to say, I'm still a little confused.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'll try and explain it the best I can. The Lost Experience was one of these real-life adventure games that ties into a show (other shows have used them in the past, there are certain agencies and groups out there that specialize in them). It is totally in canon, as it was sponsored fully by ABC (almost all the sites involved were hosted by ABC). There were a lot of websites that tied into the game, each one containing many obvious and many hidden clues. There were also real life clues (some people had to call certain phone numbers to get clues, clues were hidden in magazine and television advertisements, etc.). As more and more clues were put together, a sort of overarching story came into play.
The person behind the whole lost experience was a girl named Rachel Blake. She was determined to open up and reveal everything about the Hanso Foundation (the group responsible for the DHARMA Initiative). She released documents from the Hanso Foundation among other things. Finally in the late summer, she started revealing pieces of a large video file with each clue. When put together, this large video contained an orientation video for the DHARMA Initiative. It explained what DHARMA stands for (Department of Heuristics And Research on Material Applications), and what it was trying to do. See apparently (at least in the Lost world), when the world came to the brink of nuclear war, the UN commissioned a study. Led by a man from Italy named Valenzetti, they ended up formulating an equation that calculated the end of humanity, factoring in all possible elements of destruction (nuclear warfare, traditional warfare, overpopulation, biologal warfare, etc.). In the end, the equation came out with the numbers (it's never stated what exactly they stand for but they are listed as factors in the equation). The goal of the DHARMA Initiative is to try and change one of these factors and alter one of the numbers. They set up the research stations on the island and included a radio tower that would broadcast the numbers constantly, including if one was changed. If even one number was changed, humanity could be saved. The orientation video then ended and we saw Thomas Mittlewerk talking to some people (giving further orientation). He said that the DHARMA Initiative had failed up until this point, and so actions had to be taken. This group was to go into the villages being infected with a new virus (as I've already mentioned) and monitor them, including comforting the relatives of the sick and the dead. Apparently they had a deep backstory they were supposed to stick to. Mittlewerk emphasized that the 30% mortality mark had to be hit accurately (not above or below it) if this was to work and save humanity. At this point, Rachel (who was filming the video) was captured by Mittlewerk.
Right before season 3 started, the Lost Experience came to a close. People were being sent Apollo chocolate bars (the same kind seen in Lost) and were registering them on a site called whereisalvar.com (asking where Alvar Hanso is and why he hasn't tried to stop Mittlewerk). After enough were registered, the final elements of the plot came together. Rachel found out where Alvar was being held, and a lot of stuff was revealed. First, Rachel is actually the daughter of Alvar (sort of inconsequential). Second, Alvar had been sort of removed from the Hanso Foundation once Mittlewerk took control. He had no part in any of the recent plots. Finally, the stuff Rachel had found out was going to be put to the public to try and oust Mittlewerk. After all of this was seen, a new Hanso Foundation page opened up, with a letter from Alvar thanking the participants and Rachel for freeing him and helping him to regain control of the Hanso Foundation. The letter made it sound like Mittlewerk had been eliminated, but if you clicked on a certain part of the letter a hacked audio file played from Mittlewerk saying that the battle had been won by Rachel but the war was far from over.
That's about as concise as I can make the whole thing. If you guys have any more questions about it, just post them and I'll try and answer.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Hmm, yeah. I did forget about Steve/Scott and pit dude (from now on, we can all call him Good Ole Pit Dude- man, I miss Good Ole Pit Dude).
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
Question: this lost experience thing sounds cool and all that -- if you are into the whole treasure hunting thing, looking for clues, deciphering codes, whatnot....but since this information is supposedly canon, is any of it actually going to be revealed on the tv show? cause, i mean -- that's some convoluted stuff. and some incredibly relevant stuff. i don't want to have to call phone numbers and pieces pictures together to understand this 8-season show....
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
I'm hoping that it is included in the DVD set for Season 3.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
You don't need to put together all the phone numbers and pieces and such. If you want all the details, go to Lostpedia. What I've said is a pretty decent summary though.
Oh and if you want the video Rachel shot (that included the DHARMA orientation as well as the stuff with Mittlewerk), here's a YouTube link for the fully compiled video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PPCCcXarkc Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
What a superb summary, pfresh85!
Thank you!
Are you pfresh 85 because you graduated from college in 85, or because you were BORN in 85?
On second thought, don;t answer!
Also, how did you get 8085 as your Member number?
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
The link I posted also has links to all of the Rachel Blake videos, as well as a link to Rachel's own FAQ/recap.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Elizabeth, I don't know how I managed to get member number 8085. It was some big coincidence. I like it though.
As for the number at the end, I think some people here know what it stands for, but if you don't want me to tell you, I won't.
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
Thanks for the summary pfresh85!
I am going with the theory that you have 84 other screen names that start with "pfresh" but I am just grasping at tiny little straws.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:I mean with the Lost Experience this summer, we learned that the DHARMA group has recently unleashed a virus or something targetting certain genetic types that will wipe out about 30% of the two villages it's being tested on.
I'm unfamiliar with the Lost experience. Can someone explain? Is this cannon?
No, but it is canon, I believe.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Just watched the episodes last night.
Have to say, I'm getting sick of them taking everything lying down. I'm getting sick of them being in the best possible position and then voluntarily giving up the high ground.
When Sun shot the woman, I was giddy. I'm at that point. They've been pushed beyond I think the limits of rational human endurance, and I'm also sick of the Others always claiming to know everything about the crash victims, and what decisions they will make. She was wrong. Sun had the upper hand and she took advantage of it. Then again, you have to consider her words from before. She said that the only reason she'd need the gun was if Jin and Sayid were dead, so, when she shot the woman, she probably did it thinking it was revenge, at the very least, for Jin's death.
I want them to go back to before when Jack and Ana Lucia were trying to form an army. Gear up, roll out, attack for the love of God. The level of deceit the Others are going to, to try and portray a myriad array of false pretenses is becoming stupidly annoying. I want some answers before this six episode arc is done, I want progress. I've earned it after two years of watching this show.
Incidentally, I don't think the kid in the cage was a plant for Sawyer, unless you assume that the girl who talked to Kate (Rosseau's daughter) was also a plant, which I absolutely don't believe. I think the kid messed up and was trying to escape with his girlfriend.
I don't trust Juliet, but I like her character just because she helps personify the divisions that exist in their little gated community. They AREN'T united, and the crashies can use that against them at some point. I'd like to see the three of them escape using the sailboat that was just captured. I don't even care about Michael and Walt anymore, I hope they just sail away and that's it.
Whatever happened with those people in the research station in Antarctica who were listening for some signal, and heard it, and reported back to that woman...the details are foggy, but that was the most random plot line that was tossed in towards the end of last season, and I don't get the point.
I hope the crash people gear up soon. If I'm at the point where I'm excited about Sun killing a defenseless woman, there's something wrong with the show, not me. It's time for them to fight back. Next time Sawyer gets a gun, he'd better mow people down, and Kate too. Those two are the scrappiest of them all, next to Sayid. Act like it.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
So, what did you think of this week's episode?
I personally was very excited at the return of the polar bears. I don't know why, but the sheer absurdity of the situation makes me happy. Also, it's nice that they went back to the other side of the island. I saw the marijuana coming. I mean, when you see a random green house with lots of fertilizer; you just KNOW that it's going to be pot.
Ecko better be okay, because I was very disappointed that he didn't kick butt in this episode. Plus, where were the polar bear teeth marks on his body? I didn't see anything!
What do you feel about them going back to Jack, Sawyer, and Kate next week? What's going on with Sawyer and why are they torturing him?!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, I assumed the pot thing as well. When Eddie or whoever said blowing something up, I was like "huh? I never thought of that."
I really liked this episode. We've got a possible future-predicting Desmond, the old school Locke back, and all sorts of other stuff.
As for next week, I'm cool with them going back to the other side of the island, as I'm still really interested in the Others stuff. It looked to me like they were torturing Sawyer in order to get Kate to admit she loves him. Why they would do that is beyond me; that's just how it seemed to me.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I really really enjoyed this episode. It was back to the kind of episode that interests me.
I thought the drug greenhouse was pretty obvious too, and made sense why the kid asked about blowing something up given who he was. I also saw that Eddie was setting John up from a mile away. Right away I thought it was interesting that Eddie had issues with his father because it gave him and Locke a connection. Though I didn't think anything was up yet. Then later when Locke and him are talking and Eddie says that that girl likes Locke. And that she's looking for a father figure like everyone else there. Which is partly true of Locke, but I also made the connection right away that Eddie was like Locke's son figure. I started to suspect there I think. And then when Locke told Charlie that bad things happen to people around him, even though they're trying to get you to think something bad was going to happen to Eddie, I automatically realized that the something bad was going to happen to all those people, and that Eddie was setting them up. Anyway, I'm cool. Thouh I feel like every single Locke flashback that doesn't explain how he became an invalid is writers just dangling the fact that we don't know how it happened yet in front of our faces. EVERY flashback I'm like, "Is this the one? What could happen here that could make him lose the power to walk?" frustrating!
So if we take Locke's vision to be legit, should we be worried about something happening to Claire and Charlie soon?
Desmond's new power is interesting. Are we to assume that one or more of the others may have that power? Maybe Ben/Henry DID know that plane was going to crash afterall.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Didn't something already happen to Claire and Charlie? Charlie was hung up by his neck, and Claire was almost killed, so hopefully they've had their quota of crazy things happening to them. Knowing this show, however, I wouldn't bet on anything.
I'm also interested to see what happens on the other side of the island. Why are they trying to be buddy-buddy with Jack while torturing Sawyer. And why do they need Kate to admit that she loves him. Perhaps they want Jack to witness Kate saying she loves Sawyer in order to break him down and bond more with whats-her-face from the Others.
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
Desmond sure looked a lot like an older, thinner Hurley...
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
My favorite part of the episode was where "sawyer-look-alike-castaway 1" and "not-kate-female-castaway 2" thought they could just barge in to the conversation that the important characters were having.
[ October 20, 2006, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Launchywiggin ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
My guess is that the Others need Jack for a specific cause that none of the other Losties can provide them, something that is totally against his character. In order to get Jack to cooperate,
1st) they needed someone within the group that he could trust. Check
2nd) they needed to offer him something he wants. Check.
3rd) They needed to break his loyalty from any of the other survivors.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: I personally was very excited at the return of the polar bears. I don't know why, but the sheer absurdity of the situation makes me happy.
Well, we know that the bears figured out the fish cracker thing in 2 hours, right? Although the cage Sawyer is in looks a mite small for a polar bear.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by gnixing: Desmond sure looked a lot like an older, thinner Hurley...
...with a thick Strine accent.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I'm still thinking about the Copenhagen photo. If that wasn't a hoax, and if the stuff in it has any validity, they actually wanted Jack's father, and have only settled for him because Christian died.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Copenhagen photo? Did i forget something?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I had never heard of it, either, but a quick Google search says it was a hoax.
Does anyone have a link to the picture?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I do. If you want to see it, here is is. Notice on the side where CS was crossed out and JS was penciled in?
But wow! I hadn't seen this post by the guy who perpetrated the hoax. Never mind.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
huh, wow. I remember that picture. Never realized it was a hoax.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"I mean, when you see a random green house with lots of fertilizer; you just KNOW that it's going to be pot."
HA ha. I went right for bombs. Why? Because most indoor growers use organic fertilzers. Plus, as a gardener, I knew a constant supply of that much fertilizer to a fairly small greenhouse was way too much.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
This episode left me annoyed. I'm glad Mr. Echo is ok but really, enough of intense flashbacks already! Switch up some format and get moving with the plot(s).
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I love the detailed back-story! For me, it accentuates the plot. (I love Dickens)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
On this episode, we have for I believe the first time a close up of Mr. Eko's scripture stick.
The key scripture quoted on it is Gen 13:14 "Lift up your eyes and look north". This is very odd scripture for a Catholic priest to carve into a stick. First, it ends and mid verse. The full verse is "look north, south, east and west". Second, it is a command given to Abram (Abraham) as he is promised the land of Israel as an inheritance for his seed. Which is not generally that important, at least to Christians.
The scriptures on the stick are listed only as references, no quotes. They include
Romans 6:12 (Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.)
Acts 4:12 (Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.")
John 3:05 (Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.)
Hab 1:3 (Habakuk 1:3 Why do you make me look at injustice? Why do you tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife, and conflict abounds.)
All of those make some sense within the context of Mr. Eko's back story except the Gen 13:14 quote which seems, at least to me, out of place.
Also, right abouve the jute binding on the stick, we can read 4:8:15:16. I wonder whether Mr. Eko carved those before or after he learned about the button.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Hey, can someone fill me in on like the first minute of the episode? I started when Desmond was offering to fix Claire's roof.
Great episode. I totally saw Sawyer helping out the warden from the beginning, as well as the fact that the drug they gave Sawyer was a bluff. Is it just me or are they getting more obvious? Maybe I just know not trust anything on the surface, especially in a Sawyer episode. Still thought the episode was excellent. Though I was pretty pissed that Jack helped out so readily.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Jack is a doctor. I would not believe it if he didn't help. At least, I would not want to believe it.
I think we are seeing the Others out of control. So, it might be built in that things are obvious because they are losing their edge.
It seemed an extremely violent episode to me, and I looked away for much of it.
Whose spinal cancer? Not Sawyer's...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
One of the Others most likely. Someone around or above the age of 40 (based on Jack's estimate). Hard to say who it will be though. The preview seemed to indicate Ben, but that could easily be a deliberate mislead.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Two islands? The Others have a submarine? Sawyer has a daughter(or was he conned?)? The guy with the eyepatch in next week's preview?
Best episode in a long time. I might have to watch that one again.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
first minute anyone?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You can watch the beginning on ABC.com.
I don't believe that they are on one island and The Others are on another. When they saw the plane pass over and told the guys to go infiltrate them, there's no way they got to the boats, got across the water, got to a point where they could disembark the infiltrators, and got them into the camps that fast. I just don't believe it.
The Others don't have a sub, it's some sort of below water research lab or something.
I think Sawyer got conned, and it worked pretty well too apparently, though I'm surprised that woman was THAT petty afterwards. She got her money back, Sawyer went to jail, even after totally copping to everything. Why go back and hurt him afterwards? She couldn't have known that he had ANY money, let alone however many thousands from the warden. So maybe he didn't get conned, but it's an odd addition to the storyline.
Guy with the eyepatch looks like something out of Saw.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:I don't believe that they are on one island and The Others are on another. When they saw the plane pass over and told the guys to go infiltrate them, there's no way they got to the boats, got across the water, got to a point where they could disembark the infiltrators, and got them into the camps that fast. I just don't believe it.
The Others live on the same island as the Losties, but they do their research on this other island.
quote:The Others don't have a sub, it's some sort of below water research lab or something.
Well, they blatantly said "The sub is back, and there's a situation" right before they brought in Cole...and that might explain how they got to the sailboat and how they go in between islands.
quote:I think Sawyer got conned, and it worked pretty well too apparently, though I'm surprised that woman was THAT petty afterwards. She got her money back, Sawyer went to jail, even after totally copping to everything. Why go back and hurt him afterwards? She couldn't have known that he had ANY money, let alone however many thousands from the warden. So maybe he didn't get conned, but it's an odd addition to the storyline.
I don't think she conned Sawyer before, just turned him in. I'm referring to his supposed daughter. If she knows he's in on the scam with the warden, she might be lying to get him to give money to Clementine, which he does. It's a pretty farfetched idea, though.
quote:Guy with the eyepatch looks like something out of Saw.
He's probably the owner of the glass eye we saw in the Tailies' episode, too.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I agree with Frisco. Except I don't remember anything about that last point you made.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:The Others live on the same island as the Losties, but they do their research on this other island.
When did they say that?
quote:Well, they blatantly said "The sub is back, and there's a situation" right before they brought in Cole...and that might explain how they got to the sailboat and how they go in between islands.
Ah, I missed the part where they said "the sub is back." I figured if they went between islands it's because of the boat they attacked the raft with in the first episode, but the sub (why they have a sub I can't really parse out), explains their willingness to give the boat to Michael, that combined with the fact that now they can just go get it from him when it runs out of gas.
quote:I don't think she conned Sawyer before, just turned him in. I'm referring to his supposed daughter. If she knows he's in on the scam with the warden, she might be lying to get him to give money to Clementine, which he does. It's a pretty farfetched idea, though.
I don't think she conned Sawyer before either, I was referring to his supposed daughter as well. How in the hell would she know he had a scam to get money to the warden? I don't think it's possible she could know about the money, but I think it's possible that she thinks he has money elsewhere, and is trying to con him out of it. But the only other thing is that there really IS a baby, but if there is, and he doesn't care enough to go to her, just to leave her money, why bother dropping that plot point in the show? Just to show he cares? We know he cares somewhere deep down, so why that?
quote:He's probably the owner of the glass eye we saw in the Tailies' episode, too.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. Good memory!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
They didn't. It just seems logical that the place we see the Others living in at the beginning of the first episode this season is a different place from the one they are torturing Jack, Kate and Sawyer in. From what I remember of the village they lived in, it was in a clearing surrounded by trees, possibly by the edge of a mountain or hill.
They have Jack underwater and obviously close to where Sawyer and Kate are. So I don't know that anywhere close to where that village is they could be doing all this.
But mainly just because obviously they DID get to the plane crash quickly so they couldn't have been on this other Island then.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Just for an idea where The Pearl is in comparison to the hatch the Losties are at. Over by C4, it has it as "The Pearl," which I believe is what the chick said it was called. Notice also that on The Other's shirts, it has an octopus looking symbol.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm not entirely sure how logical THAT is. All the facilities thus far built on Isla Lostie island are made by Dharma, as are the facilities on Isla Others, I don't think it's automatic to assume that they are on different islands. He even told Sawyer he was conning him, AGAIN when he brought him there. I don't buy that they all live on Isla Lostie, but work on Isla Others.
Especially since so many of them seem to be on work island, away from home island all the time. Why was french woman's daughter ever moved to Isla Others from Isla Lostie? Why was her boyfriend in a cage there? Why is there a labor camp there? The dual living situation seems to have too many plot holes for it to work. Sawyer's walk with what's his name didn't take that long, and the beach was right below them. I don't see why their facilities can't be right next to the village on Isla Lostie.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
The think is, they lived on their commune before the Losties got there. Now that they have new subjects, the testing is a bit more frequent.
If they are, indeed, living on the test island now (as opposed to commuting), I think there might still be more Others still living on the other island with the Losties.
Anyone else think that there might be or might have once have been a tunnel between the islands? Maybe that hatch that Jack opened was part of a remnant of the tunnel system. I mean, if you're underwater, why have a door that leads to err...certain death?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
My dream house has at least two of those for unsuspecting guest who decide to explore my home. It also has a batcave and a trapdoor with spikes underneath.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I understand the allure of having a "certain death" door, but I would think that it would be more fun to have it just kill the one person who opened it, not everyone in the house. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'd say it isn't a bad idea, but if there WAS a tunnel, it'd totally break suspension of disbelief. That's not exactly a short swim between islands, and it'd take a multi year, multi billion dollar project to build anything approaching a tunnel between islands. I know Dharma has a lot of resources, but I think that stretches feasibility or belief.
Why would there be NEED for a "test island" before the Losties got there? Imagine the whole island was built without any knowledge that anyone was going to crash on the island. If there was a test island beforehand, that supposes that they were testing people on the Lostie island, so why would have have set up their commune there beforehand?
I could have sworn I saw that the houses on the commune were attached to or near to the cages and such that Losties were in, but I could be wrong about that. I guess we'll just have to see more information before we know what is going on.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:I'd say it isn't a bad idea, but if there WAS a tunnel, it'd totally break suspension of disbelief. That's not exactly a short swim between islands, and it'd take a multi year, multi billion dollar project to build anything approaching a tunnel between islands. I know Dharma has a lot of resources, but I think that stretches feasibility or belief.
What if the island wasn't always underwater? What if it's actually a tunnel through rock under a shallow bay? And why, on an island with a smoke monster and polar bears, would the amount of money available for the project be the one thing that unsuspends your disbelief?
quote:Why would there be NEED for a "test island" before the Losties got there? Imagine the whole island was built without any knowledge that anyone was going to crash on the island. If there was a test island beforehand, that supposes that they were testing people on the Lostie island, so why would have have set up their commune there beforehand?
The current test island seems to be set up not to test on humans, but animals. Possibly, the psychological experiment was being performed on the island, and the rest of the harder science experiments were performed on the small island.
I would think that the commune would have been originally part of a Utopian experiment, and that there were living quarters on both islands.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well now you're just pulling stuff out of thin air.
Either way, it'll be interesting to see where this new development takes us.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: You can watch the beginning on ABC.com.
I don't believe that they are on one island and The Others are on another. When they saw the plane pass over and told the guys to go infiltrate them, there's no way they got to the boats, got across the water, got to a point where they could disembark the infiltrators, and got them into the camps that fast. I just don't believe it.
I agree that the village we saw at the beginning of the season premiere is on the same island where the Losties live. But don't you remember the map? There's an offshore/underwater research facility on it, and I think this little island is it.
My question is why Danny was beating on Sawyer asking if Kate loved him. I get that he was grieving over Connie, but the "Do you love him?" thing seemed inexplicable.
Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
Anyone else find it interesting that Sawyer set up an account in Santa Fe, and Kate's bankrobbing escapade was in New Mexico?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I vaguely remember Kate using the name Clementine at the bank. Can anyone help in confirming that?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:What if the island wasn't always underwater? What if it's actually a tunnel through rock under a shallow bay? And why, on an island with a smoke monster and polar bears, would the amount of money available for the project be the one thing that unsuspends your disbelief?
...
The current test island seems to be set up not to test on humans, but animals. Possibly, the psychological experiment was being performed on the island, and the rest of the harder science experiments were performed on the small island.
I would think that the commune would have been originally part of a Utopian experiment, and that there were living quarters on both islands.
quote:Well now you're just pulling stuff out of thin air.
How so? We've seen a ship moored in mid-land, a bunch of seemingly watertight hatches, and a part of a hatch that's flooded. Could the island be not as stationary as we think?
And we already know that zoology and a Utopian society were part of the Dharma Initiative from the orientation videos (also not "thin air").
And Nate, Kate went by the name "Maggie" in the bank-robbing episode ("Whetever The Case May Be").
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
diva -
It was Albuequerque I believe, not Santa Fe.
Frisco -
Sorry, not pulling it out of thin air, but at least making guesses, which is what I, and anyone else here are doing too. You could be right, but I don't see anything obvious that makes your guess any better than mine.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
It's hard to believe that everything's on one island, because when shown the view of the commune, it's clearly on the big island, where the Losties live.
And when Sawyer is walked from the cage to the lookout point (not drugged and transported, just walked), the island they're on is clearly very small, and the island they're looking at is either the Losties' island, or one that looks exactly like it. If there are two islands, the only way I can believe that the second one hasn't been spotted by the Losties is if it's tiny. An island the size of the one Sawyer saw--if it's not the Losties' island, I can't believe that no one would've glimpsed it in their extensive travels, both around the circumference of the island and up the mountains.
The only way I can see it being one island is if the island Sawyer saw was some sort of mirage, which, given Hanso's apparent budget restraints, (a giant mirage-producing machine being pretty expensive) is also beyond the suspension of disbelief to you. Posted by divaesefani (Member # 3763) on :
Thanks for clarifying that, Lyrhawn. Although, I, like T_Smith, thought that the name Clemintine was attached somehow. *shrugs*
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
OH NO THEY DIDN'T!
. . . rip.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
They killed Echo, but added a worthless Lorenzo Lamas lookalike.
This show is going down the drain.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I can't believe they killed off Echo.
I wonder if somehow Juliette and Ben are still playing Jack.
Where was Echo at the end of the episode? The mountain was right there. Are they on the other side of where The Others' village is?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
That dude who tagged along. Yeah. I nicknamed him Scooby after the "well, the toilet still works." Gee, thanks Scooby.
Echo died. Hmm. Well... Bernard is next.
My guess is that all Juliette is doing is making a powerplay for control of The Others. That she is just as manipulative, cunning and deceptive as Ben, but somehow, Ben maintains control.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
J.J. Abrams has finally put the last straw that broke the camel's back by killing Eko. I think I'm done with Lost. It was good while it lasted. I'm going to allocate more time from this show to other interesting shows that have come on.
It was a good ride.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Oh, in other news, I predict that the whole side part with Jack is actually tricking him into doing the surgery because they know he can't kill anyone. IE: It's exactly as Ben said it would be. If that's his real name.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Jack's a wus, but I do think Juliette is trying to make a play for power, and that she'll be an even worse leader than Ben. I can't quite figure Ben out yet, but I think he has some good in him, and a bit of honesty, if it serves his purpose. I think Juliette is stone cold, and all about playing games with people's heads.
I can't believe they keep killing off the awesome characters and adding dumb ones. What do the new couple have to add to the show? They seemed so one-dimensional.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I wonder what the difference would be if Jack simply let him die of the tumor, rather than actively getting in there and personally cutting the cord himself.
I think Jack will agree, get in, and realize he can't do it. Though, like Sun's murder, I honestly wouldn't care at this point if he did in fact kill Ben.
Thing is though, it's probably a power plat by Juliet. Either she's just as bad, or worse, than Ben, or it's all part of a plan by someone else in the camp. Sometimes it's fun when nothing is predictable in a show. I think with this show, it's getting damned annoying.
Killing off Eko didn't bother me. Hell, I never liked him to begin with. They explained his character quickly, then killed him off. There were no questions left to be answered. We finally figured out why he was building the church and that was that, bam, he's dead. Though I wonder, he was previously the only character to face off with the Black Smoke like that and live to not talk about it. Why'd the smoke let him live before, only to kill him now?
As an aside, I totally called that the little kid was an altar boy (neither here nor there), and my brother was pissed, when while watching the first ten minutes he said "This show is pissing me off, I mean, look at all the stuff they throw out and never go back to, like the black smoke." Twenty minutes later: "Shut up. I hate you, and this stupid show." Which plastered a grin on my face for an hour or so. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OK, so what is the black thing????
I can't stand Juliette. Plus, it seems like every show these days has a Juliette look-alike. She reminds me of Meredith Grey, whom I don;t like, and she could also be a Desperate Housewife.
I liked Eko.
The couple is boring.(famous last words, I'm sure)
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: OK, so what is the black thing????
It's the 'security system.' Or at least that's what it's been called. No one knows what it really is yet. It's popped up here and there in the first two seasons, and yesterday was the first real good look we had of it. Before we had glimpses of it, and we saw inside it when Ecko faced off with it.
Also, to whoever said Ecko was the only one to face off with it - thats not true. Locke did at the beginning of the show, but he saw a beautiful light.
Locke's comment, coupled with the 'memories' seen inside of it when Ecko first faced off with it - seem to tell us that it's some sort of judgement device (made of what I have no idea). Ecko was (for the sake of argument) a 'bad man', and he was killed for the bad things he's done. What we've seen so far of Locke is that he's a good man that even tried to help his asshole father. Since he saw a beautiful light, maybe it 'judged' him as a good person and didn't kill him.
Who knows for sure? I agree that the story is getting slightly lost (no pun intended). I liked it better when the Others were literally Others, and not some retarded science team gone awry.
Posted by libertygirl (Member # 8761) on :
Yeah, this show is just getting... idk kinda predictably unpredictable and I dont like it. I was so upset when they introduced the dumb characters all I could think was 'oh great they thought the show was to confusing so they introduced idiots to explain everything to us'.
Mr. Eko was awesome = (
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote: Ecko was (for the sake of argument) a 'bad man',
And he also refused to ask for forgiveness.
I had always assumed that things like Jemi were visions or hallucinations, but now I think they are manifestations of the black cloud.
I think the new couple is suppose to represent us tagging along for the ride. The woman pointed at the TV's and said it would make sense that if one TV looks at one station, then shouldn't the other TV's look at other stations. It almost seemed like she was the audence screaming at their TV's to Locke "Why didn't you see that?"
Posted by Abyss (Member # 3086) on :
Locke's description of a beautiful light against Ecko's experiences with the black cloud remind me of the "dark stone, light stone" theme that they dealt with extensively in the first season.
I've been predicting Ecko's death since his introduction, largely on the basis of the Gilgamesh theory. Around the time of Ecko's introduction Gilgamesh came up a bunch of times in the character's crossword puzzles and books they were reading. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh loses a friend, Ekindu, and this inspires him to seek out the secret of immortality. We know that Hanso Corp. was working on a life extension project that created at least one successful immortal, Joop. Also interesting to me, in the Epic the secret of immortality is kept underwater and guarded by a serpent; I don't have any trouble drawing a link there.
Ah well, it's all speculation. It's just interesting to me how much some of it matched up (I mean, come on... Ecko, Ekindu...) .
One of my friends is very upset that Ecko bought the farm, but has been whining throughout Season 2 that Locke lost his touch. After watching the latest episode, I told him to look on the bright side. He got Locke back -- he just had to give something to the island first.
On a side note, I was disappointed when the X-rays turned out to actually belong to Ben. I had a whole theory going that the Others had Alvar Hanso in their base, but needed Jack to get him out of a coma. As a last ditch effort to validate it, I've tenatively decided that this whole thing with Juliette is a vast manipulation by her and Ben to see if Jack will be honest, even when working on someone who is seemingly evil. When he successfully completes his first test with Ben, he'll get to slice and dice the big "H" himself.
But that's probably wishful thinking.
Also, what's up with everyone deciding that the black cloud can shape itself into people? Even people it's never seen, like Jemi and Jack's father? I don't have any proble thinking that Jack and Ecko were just hallucinating. It would have been very cool for Jemi to say, "You speak to me like I am your brother." and the EXPLODE into a massive black cloud and beat the bejeezus out of Ecko, but he didn't, he just walked away.
-Abyss
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
The thing I took away from last night's episode is that anyone on the cast who wants to remain so had better not get arrested for drunk driving.
Oh and the same frustrations as everyone else.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I didn't mind Eko passing. He was interesting but we'd learned all about him.
I get the impression that over the 8 year arc, they're all going to die. the last few episodes we'll have maybe Locke and Kate and Jack (Sawyer will have sacrificed himself for Kate earlier in the season a-la tale of two cities) and probably a coupla people who have come to the forground during the run of the show...
And by the end, they'll all be dead too... maybe kate or locke will walk free... maybe no one will.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote:Also, what's up with everyone deciding that the black cloud can shape itself into people? Even people it's never seen, like Jemi and Jack's father?
We saw last season that the cloud can read minds, see memories, something. When Ecko confronted it before, scenes from his previous life flashed through it. It could easily know what people looked like that it hadn't seen before.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest:
I get the impression that over the 8 year arc,
Eight year? I heard they weren't going to past 5 years. 8 seasons is a bit of overkill for this type of show.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
punj: I heard 8, but I think 5 would better behoove it. I hope you're right.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:I can't believe they keep killing off the awesome characters and adding dumb ones.
Shannon and Ana Lucia were annoying, Boone was blah, and Libby was mildly interesting. Eko is the first one I'm sad to see go.
As for the rest, man...I need time to think about it (I just watched it...had to DVR it so I could watch the BSU game last night).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
5 seasons?
So they're going to be on the island for three or four months?
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I'm telling you, those two are us, the audience. Characters don't have to go to the bathroom in the show - we do. What do you think Kate and Sawyer are doing in their cages in plain view of each other? Nothing I tell you, because characters don't have to go.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:The woman pointed at the TV's and said it would make sense that if one TV looks at one station, then shouldn't the other TV's look at other stations. It almost seemed like she was the audence screaming at their TV's to Locke "Why didn't you see that?"
I assumed Locke knew they all showed different stations, but since none of them were working when he first found the hatch, he assumed they didn't broadcast anymore. I mean, why have all those tvs, yet have to get on hands and knees like Sayid did just to change the channel?
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
His response to her indicated that he hadn't thought of that, though. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: 5 seasons?
So they're going to be on the island for three or four months?
Sure, why not? Honestly I'd rather they ended it soon, I don't want it to drag on and on and on, to where 7 years later we're STILL wondering what the black smoke is; OR they've shown us the black smoke's secrets, but then we have something ELSE that's mysterious.
It would get old after a while. Better that they plan for something short and then end it properly.
Also, I dont see a problem with the people being on the Island for only a few months. A lot of stuff can happen to a (realtively) small group of people in the span of a few months. Look what's happened so far and they've only been there what, 70 days?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:His response to her indicated that he hadn't thought of that, though. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
Well yeah, I was just under the impression that Locke had thought of it, so when it came up, it seemed like a really contrived way of getting the channel changed. I'd rather Locke and Sayid try and figure out why the TVs weren't working than pretend like that stupid extra had the answer.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Why do you blame the producers for Ecko's death? From USAToday "Akinnuoye-Agbaje asked to be written off the series. After losing both parents last year, he wanted to return to his London home and work on a film he'll direct."
It is like Kate in NCIS. She wanted off the show and she wanted the character dead. So the producers accomodated her. In Lost they did the same, since you can not really have Ecko leave the Island. So he dies.
msquared
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
I think that the power source must be on the small island. The first construction, cages for bears and all the rest suggest it is a staging area, the power line to the main island comes from the small island. The power source is likely geo thermal, perhaps the small island was chosen for being more geologically active...
Clear thinking tells us that Jack will do his best to save the leader, but will charge a fee of freedom for Kate, Sawyer and himself. He cannot do less then his best and be a doctor. However I was wondering if Jack's chops might be getting rusty, how about it doctors? Fifty days of manual labor and no fine dextrous activity. Its gotta leave you rusty...
How did we miss the hottest girl on the island all this time? Even my wife was laughing at that...
I think Jack will tell the "Others" to go to heck with their political conivience and plots and return to the island folk.
What I want to see is that elderly couple building their permanant house, now that he knows that she cannot leave he will buckle down and start on it, all those black rocks from the SOS could be the foundation, I wonder how you make decent cement in that environment...
Ecko's death was pretty darn cool, it advanced the understanding of the black smoke for sure, it seems to be almost a cruel AI with a distaste for human kind. Certainly not 1980's tech... (though the TI 99 4a was a fun machine wasn't it?)
Question: is the little island invisble from the big one?
Who is the Eye patch dude?
Quite an episode, it suggest a retrenchment for a long haul but I miss Hurley and we need to see some more Drive Shaft...
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
[quote]I wonder how you make decent cement in that environment...[.quote]
You don't. Making portland cement no only requires Limestone ( a mineral generally abcent on volcanic islands) but it must be heated to extreme temperatures which just can't be acheived without building a kiln first.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Clear thinking tells us that Jack will do his best to save the leader, but will charge a fee of freedom for Kate, Sawyer and himself.
Jack wouldn't be Jack if he agrees to do this surgery without being given an explanation for who the others are, what they are doing on the island, why they have refused to help the survivors of flight 815, how they have contact with the outside world?, how they get their "hamburgers"?
Considering that the others were able to get a full VITA on Jack, as well as books, CDs and hamburgers and who knows what else from the outside. Why can't they leave? If they can leave, why doesn't Ben just go to the Mayo Clinic for his surgery.
If Jack doesn't demand answers to those questions before doing surgery on Ben he isn't Jack and he isn't a responsible doctor. I mean really. Who would choose to do that kind of surgery on a remote island with limited medical equipment (like no paddles) and no qualified assistance if the surgery could be done back in civilization with a crack team and state of the art equipment?
ABC promised to tell us why the survivors are alive but the end of next weeks episode, so perhaps Jack will demand some answers and we will get some too.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Unless the leader goes critical, then Jack has a choice, be a doctor as best he can or violate his oath.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
here's a different trailer for next week that wasn't shown after this past episode.
another one.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Looks like Jack is calling their bluff.
I hope this fighting spirit lasts for awhile. I'm sick of seeing them taking everything lying down, and always being outsmarted.
Lock and Sayid look like they are going on offense, good.
Jack is done being toyed around with, good.
Let's see where this goes.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Did I just see Malcolm Renolds on Lost! Joygasm!
(edit) Wife there, sorry...
[ November 08, 2006, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: General Sax ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
FEBRUARY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I wish it hadn't ended on a debate between Jack and Kate. I wish there was some clue what they were actually going to do. Oh well, you can't always get what you want.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Can the guy ever catch a break? Every time he gets married he ends up drugged and unconcious!
I agree what makes them think I am going to wait...
Okay I know, I have no choice, but I will not watch the show that replaces it, from now on Wendsday is Family Home Evening, until Febuary.
I think that Jack is making a very good move, they will not stop needing him, and he has the strong hand. The big bitter guy needs to die for sure.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
What the hell was that? I read that we were supposed to get answers before this retarded hiatus.
Man I wish I could call up my boss and tell him "Hey boss, I won't be coming in for the next 16 weeks... I'll be taking a hiatus. Can I still get paid and have my job waiting for me when I get back in February? Thanks, see ya!"
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
quote:Every time he gets married he ends up drugged and unconcious!
That's exactly what I said! And I half expected to see Kate go all woozy after she kissed him. Totally ruined the sad moment when I started giggling.
Dude, FINALLY Sawyer and Kate get it on. It also excuses Jack's change from "useless unquestioning guy in cell" to "character I almost started liking again". I mean, seeing his true love snuggling with Kate like that...gotta make a guy start taking risks.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Dude, FINALLY Sawyer and Kate get it on.
Christ. YOU and those like you are the reason we had a 10 minute WASTE of space in this episode.
People want to know what's going on on the island, not whether or not character A has sex with character B. If you want to watch that 'hot action', just watch porn, leave the actual SHOW to the rest of us.
No offense Leah, I don't mean to fly off the handle but I was just LIVID when they pissed away a good 10 minutes of time where we could have seen so much more show. Augh!!! They already cut out a good 17 minutes because of lame-ass commercials!!
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Oh yeah, it went on way too long and *everytime* I watch this $#%$ show I think, last time untill the Black Smoke of Doom is explained...
They could have had sultry look-makeout-clothes off-fade out bam bam bam, 20 seconds and made some sort of rote effort to include the million other characters we haven't seen forever in the show...but they had to have the Kate/Sawyer. At some point the sexual tension just causes the line of continuity to snap if it isn't resolved.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
PUN, really. Is there ever a post where you're not a jerk? Seriously--you're starting to make me look nice and sensitive.
What seemed like 10 minutes to you was actually more like, what, 1? Or are you counting every minute Kate and Sawyer appeared on the show?
Look at this way--the minute that Kate and Sawyer were making out gave them less time to introduce new questions that won't get answered for three years.
Personally, I think if I were stranded on an island with Kate, there'd be a whole lot more lovin' than we've yet seen in the show.
In fact, it's almost gotten to the point where it just seems so contrived that two people so obviously atracted to each other and have so many opportunities to express that haven't really done so until now, almost three months into their Hanso Vacation.
quote:People want to know what's going on on the island, not whether or not character A has sex with character B
Enough people watch the show because they enjoy the character relationships in addition to the mystery that if all you want is questions and answers, then maybe you should watch another show.
If not for the deep characterization we've grown to love (and hate, apparently), this show would be long gone.
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
quote:In fact, it's almost gotten to the point where it just seems so contrived that two people so obviously attracted to each other and have so many opportunities to express that haven't really done so until now, almost three months into their Hanso Vacation.
A. Neither of them are very good with telling the truth and expressing themselves. B. Both of them have had other relationships in very badly.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
There's nothing wrong with character building and relationships, but when a FALL FINALE episode wastes 10 minutes (get your watch checked) on a retarded sex scene that accomplishes what everyone ALREADY KNOWS -that's just asinine. Defending that sort of BS is even more so.
If you're watching show for worthless sex-scenes that accomplish nothing but to make the show they are featured in even worse than it already is- then I would like to take this oppertunity to let you know that Sex and the City has been released on DVD. It seems more to your liking.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Great cliffhanger.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
quote:There's nothing wrong with character building and relationships, but when a FALL FINALE episode wastes 10 minutes (get your watch checked)
If it *happens* (and the writers say it does), then it has to be told. Only 9 of those minutes (if it *was* 10 total), max, could be considered waste no matter how much you hate all the characters.
quote:on a retarded
Really? Did you go there?
quote:sex scene that accomplishes what everyone ALREADY KNOWS
Wait, you KNEW that they had sex this episdoe and you didn't leak the spoilers? That's just mean. Yo, PUN- being sexually attracted and having sex is very different. For example, after Nathan Fillion and I get it on our relationship will be very changed (partially in that I will have met him).
quote:-that's just asinine. Defending that sort of BS is even more so.
Chill out. It's that kind of show. What do you do during the flashback scenes, tune out and read Dostoyevsky?
quote:If you're watching show for worthless sex-scenes that accomplish nothing but to make the show they are featured in even worse than it already is
Why are you posting in this thread? And why are you watching this show? I ask not as a challenge, but to understand. Seriously. I don't particularly like BSG and only watch it when I'm sick, so I don't *read* that thread.
quote:- then I would like to take this oppertunity to let you know that Sex and the City has been released on DVD. It seems more to your liking.
Ooh, cheap shots! Do you like watching the O'Reilley Factor?
*********************************************** Hey, I just did one of those pick-apart posts for the first time! How'd I do, everybody? (edit: obviously not very well because my brackets were all wonky. fixed now!)
Hmm. I should sleep now.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
horrible! fix you quotes so i can read it!
edit - better, but still not there.
edit #2 - there we go.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Aw, go easy on me, I'm shy and nervous. Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
I think you did just fine, and I really enjoyed reading it.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: It also excuses Jack's change from "useless unquestioning guy in cell" to "character I almost started liking again". I mean, seeing his true love snuggling with Kate like that...gotta make a guy start taking risks.
I'm guessing this wasn't intentional, but it made me laugh pretty hard. Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
no, i think that was pretty intentional.
are you saying you haven't seen the hints? I thought they were pretty obvious. The sexual tension is unbearable.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The sexual tension where? I haven't seen anything that's made me think Jack's gay, especially not for Sawyer.
You're going to have to fill me in on what I'm supposed to have missed.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't get why Kate's first words weren't "Jack they have a gun to Sawyer's head and we're stuck on an island."
Hooray for cryptic drama and all, but a little touch of reality every now and then wouldn't hurt anyone. Jack's sacrifice is useless if Kate and Sawyer can't actually go anywhere. And now we get to wait three months to find out where this leads to.
I'm seriously contemplating not watching when the show comes back on.
What happened to Michael? What are the people on the beach doing, just hanging around? When are Lock and the others going to get off their lazy butts and DO something? I thought the go north quote thing from the Jesus Stick might be a clue to Lock as to where The Others' commune is, but who knows? What'll happen to Team Stupid on the other island?
All of these were questions that have existed since the first episode, and none of them have been answered in the last however many episodes. I'll "anxiously" await the first episode of the next season, but unless I get something huge, unless they toss me a BIG bone, I'm done watching.
Lost operates on a carrot and stick method of keeping people interested, and I'm having a major beta carotene deficiency at the moment.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I was so happy when Mal was on the show!! There's still a lot of questions but I think this episode was the best one in a long time. I do kind of wish we knew what happened to Michael. Is there anything that says his actor is off the show? (libertygirl again...I really need to log Strangelove off this computer)
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:but when a FALL FINALE episode wastes 10 minutes (get your watch checked)
Just checked my DVR, and it was indeed 1 minute. If you count the entire sequence, starting when Kate climbs out of her cage and Sawyer tells her about being on another island, it takes a full three minutes.
If a 1 minute "sex" scene is making you so uncomfortable as to feel that it takes up 10, maybe you should close your eyes. It's really not a kids' show, anyway.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco:
If a 1 minute "sex" scene is making you so uncomfortable as to feel that it takes up 10, maybe you should close your eyes. It's really not a kids' show, anyway.
lol you're retarded. I didnt say it made me uncomfortable, I said it was needless and retarded. No one needs to SEE that, what we need is more SHOW and less filler.
If you're content with filler and kissy kissy scenes, thats fine - me, I'm not so simpleminded.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Can you not use 'retarded' as an insult? And maybe...I dunno, try not being insulting? Because you may find that more people are more likely to count your opinion as valid if you don't dismiss them as simpleminded. Similarly to how I might be thinking more about your opinion if I hadn't already dismissed you as a troll.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: I was so happy when Mal was on the show!! There's still a lot of questions but I think this episode was the best one in a long time. I do kind of wish we knew what happened to Michael. Is there anything that says his actor is off the show? (libertygirl again...I really need to log Strangelove off this computer)
Michael and walt seem to have gotten a free ticket off the island at the end of Season 2. They left in a boat, remember? I think the fact that walt was growing to fast for the real-time show, and the fact that the guy who played Michael was worthless and no one even liked him, the character left the island and so now he's gone.
The only good thing michael ever accomplished was killing that MAN michelle rodriguez.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Can you not use 'retarded' as an insult?
Why? That would be: retarded
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Personally, I'm glad we haven't seen Michael. Once he left, I figured we were done with him, and I was glad that we were. I just have this feeling that he was beyond redemption at this point. That's probably just my feeling at the moment though; I know I have several friends who want him to come back and save everyone or something.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Mighty cow, the Jack/Sawyer in my post was totally intentional.
No, there've been no signs that Jack OR Sawyer are gay, but what is internet fandom for?
In all seriousness, I think Jack and Sawyer have a LOT more chemistry than Jack and Kate (not much more than Kate and Sawyer, though). When they're having thier power struggles on the beach back in Seasons 1 and 2, getting in each others' faces...
For me, slashy fandom is all about expectations. If a man and a woman acted towards each other the way Jack and Sawyer do, everyone would assume they're going to be a couple, or at least a love drama. I just find speculation more fun when there's more to speculate on. Maybe Sawyer and Jack are both gay, or bisexual. I mean, there's what, 40 people, so about 20 men, which means it's statisticly likely that 2 of them are gay. I have decided that it's Jack and Sawyer, because they're perfect for each other. Each one an *$$ in his own special way. Kate doesn't deserve either of them (or at least not in 1&2, Sawyer's starting to sort of redeem himself this season), but I think they deserve each other. Plus it would be omg totalli hott!!!111!!!
I understand people who don't dig the soap opera facet of Lost. I get pretty frustrated with it sometimes. Lost's mysteries are being revealed reaaaaaally slowly this season and I'm getting impatient, and what are all the other Losties doing back at the beach? But: It's that kind of show. I mean, they have a mind-reading BLACKSMOKECOLUMN OF DOOM! Supposedly designed in the '80s! If you want a show free of drama...don't watch TV. Ever. Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
In the spirit of OSC, i feel the need to say that "me, I'm not so simpleminded" is a sentence never uttered except to prove its own inaccuracy.
Why do I bother arguing with children? Maybe I am "retarded". I'll stop now.
--------------
That said, I was pretty disappointed with this episode. It was said some things were going to get cleared up before the hiatus, but nothing really did.
I did enjoy Alex and her slingshot, though. When the alarm first sounded, I thought that Rousseau had made it to the island with a shotgun in tow. I think the slingshot was cooler, though. Possibly because I'm rereading the Dark Tower and I'm just finishing Wizard and Glass, where Cuthbert cleans house with his.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
ABC said we would find out by the end of the fall finale why the survivors survived. They lied. No significant answers have been provided in this set of 6 episodes. In fact, they've raised more questions than they have answered.
I enjoy the characters, the drama, and the mysteries but if they don't start providing some hard answers to at least some questions this season, then I for one will stop believing they have any.
I think its a breach of story teller ethics to introduce a mystery without having a resolution to it.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Will B: Great cliffhanger.
What cliffhanger? Omigod, you mean your local ABC affiliate cut it off at 10? That's what they did with the pilot for Alias here in Chicago.
Dude, that's harsh. Wanna hear what happened in the last 10 minutes?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Right after Ben goes under the knife, when Danny and the kid are heading out to shoot Sawyer, Danny says "Shepherd wasn't even on Jacob's list".
Since Ben calls Ethan, Ethan in the season opener, we can't assume that Jacob was Ethan's real name. Is the new guy on the beach who accompanies Locke to the hatch named "Jacob" by any chance.
How is it that they didn't manage to identify Jacob as an other with the passenger manifest?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Maybe Goodwin's first name is Jacob. Though that wouldn't explain why Jack would be expected to be on his list, since Jack isn't a tailie.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Mighty cow, the Jack/Sawyer in my post was totally intentional.
No, there've been no signs that Jack OR Sawyer are gay, but what is internet fandom for?
In all seriousness, I think Jack and Sawyer have a LOT more chemistry than Jack and Kate (not much more than Kate and Sawyer, though). When they're having thier power struggles on the beach back in Seasons 1 and 2, getting in each others' faces...
For me, slashy fandom is all about expectations. If a man and a woman acted towards each other the way Jack and Sawyer do, everyone would assume they're going to be a couple, or at least a love drama. I just find speculation more fun when there's more to speculate on. Maybe Sawyer and Jack are both gay, or bisexual. I mean, there's what, 40 people, so about 20 men, which means it's statisticly likely that 2 of them are gay. I have decided that it's Jack and Sawyer, because they're perfect for each other. Each one an *$$ in his own special way. Kate doesn't deserve either of them (or at least not in 1&2, Sawyer's starting to sort of redeem himself this season), but I think they deserve each other. Plus it would be omg totalli hott!!!111!!!
I understand people who don't dig the soap opera facet of Lost. I get pretty frustrated with it sometimes. Lost's mysteries are being revealed reaaaaaally slowly this season and I'm getting impatient, and what are all the other Losties doing back at the beach? But: It's that kind of show. I mean, they have a mind-reading BLACKSMOKECOLUMN OF DOOM! Supposedly designed in the '80s! If you want a show free of drama...don't watch TV. Ever.
That was wonderful.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
We know that Ethan didn't finish his list, don't we.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: Personally, I'm glad we haven't seen Michael. Once he left, I figured we were done with him, and I was glad that we were. I just have this feeling that he was beyond redemption at this point. That's probably just my feeling at the moment though; I know I have several friends who want him to come back and save everyone or something.
I think he was beyond redemption myself, but the problem with that whole story line, is didn't he kill Libby and Anna Lucia like a week or two ago in Lost Time? Everyone seems to have gotten over it fairly well. If not for Locke's comment about there having been "too many funerals lately," I'd have thought they'd forgotten about the dead entirely.
Michael's storyline was tragic I think. The man was trying his best just to be a father, and he was obviously willing to kill to do so, which makes him tortured, in a sense, as well I think. But Walt leaves a lot of unaswered questions. What did the Others want with him? Did they just want a child to raise, like they did with the Rousseau's daughter? Or did they know about Walt's oddness? And speaking of which, what the hell is up with Walt having any sort of special abilities? If they really do leave Michael and Walt off entirely, then I'm going to stop watching the show. Not because I really want to very much to know what happened to them, but because their willingness to throw mysteries at me with absolutely zero intention of resolving them leads me to believe that they will do the same with plot lines I actually might care about.
And while Michael might be beyond forgiveness for his crimes. I still liked him, it wasn't an episode of Lost for me if I didn't hear him scream "WALT!!! WAAALLLLTT!!" at least once.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote: Not because I really want to very much to know what happened to them, but because their willingness to throw mysteries at me with absolutely zero intention of resolving them leads me to believe that they will do the same with plot lines I actually might care about.
It would also leave us with a major incongruity. When Desmond tried to leave the island following a compass course, he ended up back at the Island. When Ben learns that Sayid et al have a sailboat, he says "So let them sail in circles". These contradict Ben's telling Michael to sail a straight compass course and he "will find rescue."
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Which is why I'm willing to bet that we'll see Michael and Walt again at some point during the second half of the season, in a big "surprise."
I bet Rousseau reappears too for the big hurrah.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't know. I think the problem Desmond had was he was just attempting to sail away and was more or less kept on/near the island. I don't recall them saying he was following the specific compass course out of there. The fact that the Others gave Michael a very specific course to go out on indicated to me that that was the one path out, that going any other way would just result in you going back to the island. Thus the "let them sail in circles" comment would make sense, since it would be a very low chance that Sayid et al would hit the exact course needed to escape and would just go around in circles. I could be totally wrong, this was just how I interpreted it.
I agree Michael's storyline was tragic and all. I just never liked him too much as a character. He was fine in the first season and was right up there with the rest of the characters in my opinion. The whole second season he just got on my nerves. I'm not sure what it was, but something bugged me about him and the way he took action to try and get his son back. By the time he left at the end of season 2, I was thankful he was gone.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote: Not because I really want to very much to know what happened to them, but because their willingness to throw mysteries at me with absolutely zero intention of resolving them leads me to believe that they will do the same with plot lines I actually might care about.
It would also leave us with a major incongruity. When Desmond tried to leave the island following a compass course, he ended up back at the Island. When Ben learns that Sayid et al have a sailboat, he says "So let them sail in circles". These contradict Ben's telling Michael to sail a straight compass course and he "will find rescue."
I think they opened a port for Michael and Walt to use. That's why they were specific about the direction. Lacking that, you'll just sail around in circles.
[Edit: er... or what pfresh said.]
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Michael took the position that their was only his side, not the Others, not the Crash Group. He went out on his own in a major screw-up, was captured and without any torture or particular mistreatment he was turned enough to commit a pair of murders. He then walked away with his prize for treachery. I think he is unredeemable, the fact that he took to murder so quick suggests that he was never a very nice guy.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
The show is starting to read like a John Fowles novel, without the writing skill.
I don't think they have a clue where they are going with this show anymore.
Was no one disturbed by the fact that Kate and Sawyer's love scene was(ugh) watched by the creepy Others?
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
quote:I think he is unredeemable, the fact that he took to murder so quick suggests that he was never a very nice guy.
I didn't care much for Micheal but I have to say that as a parent who would do anything to protect her children, I could totally see how he could jump so quickly to murder to protect his child from a hostile threat.
Ya Elizabeth, I was icked out by that thought.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Also, can this please be a thread where we don't have nasty arguments with each other? It is a discussion about a tv show, for Pete's sake.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I didn't mean that bad, I just just making the point. I will edit the last bit.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I couldn't believe that Kate and Sawyer just stayed in their cages. You can get it on in the jungle. You're free, escape! The other island is in sight, grab some logs and raft your lazy butts over there. Heck, a strong swimmer could make it if her life depended on it.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:Heck, a strong swimmer could make it if her life depended on it.
I was thinking the same thing. Sawyer says it's a couple miles. When I was 12 and in Boy Scouts, to get my swimming merit badge we had to swim a mile.
And my life certainly didn't depend on it. I'll bet I could do a few without drowning. All you really need to know is how to float.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
DOn't you think they will have cameras on the water, too, though? ANd just scoop them up in a boat? Or shoot them from a boat?
COuld it be that the island is not an island at all, but a sort of winding cape?
I could not swim a mile, and who knows what currents would take a floater such as myself?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
A couple empty gas cans for a flotation device, the gas used to burn the docks and ships, and you could float across pretty easy. It isn't rocket surgery, it is a swim, Illian made it with a soccer ball...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I could probably backstroke it if I had to. The only thing I'd be afraid of is sharks.
White tip sharks are in the Pacific. They're like the guided missiles of the shark world.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Currents, folks, currents. A narrow channel between two islands would have a strong, river-like current. I think.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Well wouldn't the current just dump them back at the island? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Or maybe carry them to the other island?
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
They're on an island-a lot of old bamboo.. makes for great floatation devices!
As for the Michael's ship going in circles: I think they mentioned the electro-magnetic field encompassing the island. When they blew up the area where they had to push the button every 108 minutes, the field collapsed.. and poof, the compass could work normally without EMF interfering with the poles.
I never have liked sexual scenes in any of my media endeavors. I think it can be 'understood' without wasting film on expose'.
And just for fun; Jack has homo-erotic tendencies! Seriously, put it on mute and watch those scenes between Jack and Sawyer! It makes for amusing television!
The REAL question is?: Who Shot JR? *wink*
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
They don't even need to float or swim across at this point.
"What do you mean you can't go because we're on a different island? Then tell them to take you to a boat and call me when you're off the island. You've got one hour.
Oh, and don't forget to damage the other boats so they can't follow you."
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: It would also leave us with a major incongruity. When Desmond tried to leave the island following a compass course, he ended up back at the Island. When Ben learns that Sayid et al have a sailboat, he says "So let them sail in circles". These contradict Ben's telling Michael to sail a straight compass course and he "will find rescue."
I think they opened a port for Michael and Walt to use. That's why they were specific about the direction. Lacking that, you'll just sail around in circles.
[Edit: er... or what pfresh said.] [/QB]
I'm not saying that Michael and Walt are coming back. I'm saying that unless they give us some explanation for why they were able to leave and others weren't, they are leaving a big plot hole. Heck, the most likely thing to have happened to them, given the quality of the boat, is that they were drowned at sea.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: Currents, folks, currents. A narrow channel between two islands would have a strong, river-like current. I think.
Perhaps but not definitely and then only during certain phases of the tide. Swimming the channel would definitely be dangerous without a knowledge of the tides, but then staying on the island isn't exactly safe when you already have someone pointing a gun at your head.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Well, it was a pretty action filled episode, but I miss the other Losties.
So why did they bring Juliet to the island? what was it about her work with impregnating that they needed her skills on the island?
the only part of the episode that REALLY REALLY frustrated me was when Jack left Juliet and Ben alone in the room. There is no way in hell I would've left those two in the room alone. Every word they uttered would be spoken in my presence.
this guy has posted a bunch of close up images of certain parts of the episode, like all the images in the brainwashing scene.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Projects page is cool. Why block pictures from the website though? I didn't notice anything different with the pictures blocked or un-blocked.
As far as the episode, I don't know what to think about Juliet now. Obviously she's willing to do whatever it takes to get what she feels is necessary done. I wonder how many double and triple crosses she's pulling right now.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The Mittelos page doesn't work now... rats.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Projects page is cool. Why block pictures from the website though?
The main site navigation doesn't come up for me unless i block those pictures.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Incredible episode... Lost is finally picking up steam (the first six episodes dragged for me).
quote:So why did they bring Juliet to the island? what was it about her work with impregnating that they needed her skills on the island?
Oh, the Cylons need her in order to... oh, wait.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Well, she impregnated male mice. Maybe Ben wanted to have a baby?
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Well, she impregnated male mice. Maybe Ben wanted to have a baby?
Oh it sooo wasn't a tumor....
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Lisa: That was my thought when the male mouse impregnation was mentioned.
And we know The Others obsess about children because they keep stealing them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It made me take a closer look at Juliet's sister, too.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
The answer is clear, the world altering project is the disease that caused the 27 year old uterus to look 78, with it loose in the world reproduction would halt and humanity would stop stressing out the eco system, then with the treatment that Juliet cooked up, the group could control who can reproduce, thus controlling the world. It is actually a theme that is thick in recent sci-fi. Still like Star Trek did for space opera Lost is bringing it to the TV for the first time.
[ February 08, 2007, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Counter Bean ]
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Wasn't Juliet's sister Jane from Deadwood? They already had Trixie as a guest star...
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Any theories as to why they were brainwashing Carl?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I really wish that site was back up. There are some pretty significant things contained in that website. I'll just throw a spoiler warning and talk about them:
****SPOILERS FOR STUFF THAT I ASSUME WILL COME INTO PLAY LATER IN THE SEASON***
When you go to the projects page on that website and login, it brings up a map of the Island area. Under each Island is a list of things that that particular Island is used for. I don't remember all the specifics...nevermind, found a picture. Probably the biggest bombshell contained in the website:
At the bottom is the video that Juliet has in her inbox. it's pretty crazy too.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
My roommate (avid fan) had rehearsal and walked in on the middle of Wednesday's episode. He had the most hilarious walk back to his room while he covered his ears and shouted "lalalala" while I tried to give away all the twists in the first half of the episode.
That was fun. And I don't feel bad because we taped it for him.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I don't know why but I was surprised that the girl (I forget her name but I always assumed she was the Danielle's daughter and perhaps she is) is Ben's daughter.
The whole idea that Ben's "tumor" was a pregnancy has my brain all wigged out.
Cool links btw.
edit: name change from the mistaken Ethan to the correct Ben
[ February 15, 2007, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: sweetbaboo ]
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Ben. Ethan is the guy from the first season who is dead now.
And I still think she's Danielle's daughter. She's either been lied to and told she's Ben's daughter, or Ben is actually her daddy too(unlikely).
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Thanks Strider---yep Ben.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Yeah, they stole her when she was an infant. They could have told her anything they wanted about her parentage.
--Mel
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, I just assumed after this episode that Ben was Alex's foster father or something (not that we know whether she knows that he's not her real father or whatever).
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Do we know if Ben was always one of the Others? Maybe he really is Alex's father. He could have started out with Rousseau's group, stole Alex, and took over as leader of the Others.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Ben told Jack that he had been on the Island all of his life. Of course he could easily have been lying. He's lied about everything else. Still I think its highly unlikely that he is Alex's biological father. Rousseau has sad that she was pregnant when she came to the island and that all the members of her group died. Ben was caught in one of Rousseau's traps. If he had been the father of her child, wouldn't she have recognized him?
There is of course the possibility that all of Rousseau's story is a lie as well. Perhaps she isn't Alex's mother.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Interesting possibilities. I was under the impression that Rousseau hadn't actually found Ben in her trap yet. I don't imagine that she would have left him there if she had.
Another possibility is that Rousseau is actually working for the Others, either directly or being manipulated by them. Ben in the trap may have been a setup from the start. Perhaps she spent some time in the Wacky Glasses room.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I watched the synopsis episode that came on at 9 and noticed that they didn't mention Michael, Walter, Boone or Shannon at all.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The website has a synopsis as well, and it also doesn't mention those characters. It only briefly shows Mr. Eco. I think they're leaving out characters who are gone, or in Walt and Michael's case, we probably won't see for a while at least, to keep from confusing new viewers.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I have not been very perceptive with this show, so I don't notice very much, especially Easter eggs. There are a few things I was lucky enough to notice from this season, though.
When he was imprisoned by The Others, Jack asked if The Others were trapped, too, just like the survivors were. Ben never answered that challenge. I know that Ben is not a forthcoming person, but he has eventually revealed some truth to Jack, such as his tumor and his real name. Revealing the entire nature of their being thereis a different animal. I think they are trapped, Julia's flashback notwithstanding.
The new boy's name is Karl, like Karl Marx. The Others appear to live in a Communist-style setting (with the punishments that go with it). This is just one more instance of people being named after philosophers whose ideas are on the show.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
The Survivors seem to outnumber the Others, so the losses of still more of them further shifts the balance of power. Also the mask is off the Others, they are not some mysterious force any longer, leaving us with only the mysterious force to be a mysterious force...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Best episode for a very long time.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Sad episode!
I still feel like I am missing gigantuan pieces of this puzzle! I missed last week's show.
Ben's tumor was a baby?!?!? WHAT?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Ben's tumor was a baby?
??
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Charlie is leaving! Sinking Boat boat anyone? Is that kind of whiskey was that and where do I get a shot?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Charlie may be going to die, but this is a show where an entire season can take place over a month or less. I wouldn't say goodbye to him any time soon.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Does anyone see a connection between the people who have died on this show?
The pilot Boone Shannon Ana-Lucia Hurley's girl (the psychologist?) Eko Ethan The guy Ana-Lucia stabbed.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I have mixed feelings about the episode. I really enjoyed it. The Desmond back story was great, even if we did see one a bit altered by the explosion/island. But because the episode focused so much on the back story, practically nothing happened in present time. No interaction with Losties, no island stuff...nothing. And I miss it.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I'm also excited for next week. What do you think happened to those original survivors who where taken? Crazy clockwork orange brainwashing room?
Scott, Libby was her name. And I think I'm more interested in her back story than anyone else's. I really hope it gets told properly. That and how Locke lost his power to walk.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Mind you it was 2AM when I was watching and I was half-asleep, but I really liked this week's episode. The whole struggling to change things and make it work out better and then realizing you really can't do that. It made me really feel for Desmond. As for Charlie dying soon, as someone else pointed out the way the seasons work and all it doesn't have to be this season or next season or anytime real soon in regards to the show for it to be soon within the context of the show. So Charlie could be around for quite a while still.
One question I had: would Charlie have remembered the encounter with Desmond in the redone past? I mean I could see forgetting him and just writing him off as some crazy drunk or something, but I'd think when you encounter him later and he's also acting sort of odd that it might kick start something in the memory (like "Oh, he looks familiar" or something). Then again, there could be explanations for why Charlie doesn't remember.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote: One question I had: would Charlie have remembered the encounter with Desmond in the redone past?
I don't think the past was actually redone. I looked at this weeks flashback more as a dream/hallucination brought about by the island that closely told the actual events that transpired in real life.
The biggest thing going against that course of events is that it would put Desmond in an infinite loop that he would never escape from(think groundhog day). He would never make it past the failsafe in the time line. Also, if it all really happened, then Desmond's whole time on the island then becomes inconsistent. Why was he not able to ever predict future events till after he flipped the failsafe? if he was able to predict events BEFORE he got the island and then AFTER the failsafe. The last thing is that he was returned to consciousness after he was hit with the bat.
Like I said, I think that whole flashback was just a dream...his life flashing before his eyes...but one affected/altered by the island and whatever force was released when the failsafe was flipped. Which after it happened, left him with this power.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I guess. The thing that bothers me with that though is that for the few things he did change (talking to his physics friend in the pub, the discussion with the ring dealer, and all) was his mind just making it all up? Was the ring dealer telling him about the whole "you can change it (people dying, etc.), but it'll just happen again in a different way soon" just the island or whatever trying to explain the limits of his new power?
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
quote: Does anyone see a connection between the people who have died on this show?
DUI's and hard partying in Hawaii?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:Ben's tumor was a baby?
??
Read the preceding posts.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It's hard because the post in question misidentified Ben as Ethan.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Does anyone see a connection between the people who have died on this show?
The pilot Boone Shannon Ana-Lucia Hurley's girl (the psychologist?) Eko Ethan The guy Ana-Lucia stabbed.
They're all dead?
No, I know. They're all women. Except for Eko and Ethan and Boone and the guy Ana Lucia stabbed. Am I right?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote: One question I had: would Charlie have remembered the encounter with Desmond in the redone past?
I don't think the past was actually redone. I looked at this weeks flashback more as a dream/hallucination brought about by the island that closely told the actual events that transpired in real life.
The moment the Oracle (ring lady) started talking to Desmond about the island, I realized that it wasn't really happening.
Then again... his behavior when he met Jack in the stadium was odd. It doesn't prove that he knew Jack was going to save Sarah (it was Sarah, right?), but it certainly seemed that way.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: It's hard because the post in question misidentified Ben as Ethan.
Right. I did not mean, "Leave me alone, Scott, read the posts," if that is how it sounded.
I am just really, really confused, and the Ben/Ethan thing did not help, than you!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Than you, what?
Man, I'm all confundled now...
I was wondering if those people who have been killed are the ones who have been selfish/terrible people and who are also unrepentant.
Who has the island killed specifically?
Boone, maybe. The pilot. Eko.
Are there any character traits shared by these three men that would single them out as the island's enemies?
Also, the science teacher guy that got blown up. I forgot about his death.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
It was cool that Charlie was singing Oasis and the made Drive Shaft a kind of Oasis knock off. I think the island kills those with potential for great violence.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
The Ben/Ethan mix up was corrected in the post immediately folowing my error, I'll switch it now so that it is correct and hopefully less confusing.
[ February 15, 2007, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: sweetbaboo ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Artz, I think. But we don't know anything about the pilot. Yes, as Eric Weiss, he may have killed people, but he worked for the CIA, and that was his job, so it shouldn't count. And as Matt Parkman, he's too ineffectual to harm anyone.
Hell, Sawyer is still alive, right?
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Like right now. And think about what it means in relation to this weeks episode. Could Desmond possibly, for even that short time, actually have been in the past? Could, every time a character has a flasback, atually be transported back in time? Maybe the dont change tings because they think they're just remembering. Or the Hatchplosion have made Desmond the only one with this ability. I could be and probably am 100% wrong but all the same its a nice thought.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
That video was creepy yet neat. Interesting.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Is that real, or is it possible that it has been mixed with the rest of the audio? Of course, it would be hard to hear when the video is run forward.
I don't quite believe that Desmond really has the power of prophesy. His prediction of the lightning could have been intuition, or knowledge of where lightning strikes.
Locke gives lots of speeches, especially when people need a pep talk and an act to rally around, like they did when Desmond predicted his speech. Desmond could have just known that the time was right.
And Charlie did say that Claire was swimming, so Desmond knew that there was a good chance she was drowning as well.
I need to see more before I believe that Desmond can see the future. I don't think he went back in time. He might have been hallucinating, but that doesn't explain the Oracle. The Others, or Dharma itself, may have ways to infiltrate the brain. It looks like they do that in the Clockwork Orange Room.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
In the Science fiction short story "The Death of Dr. Island" the island itself was incarnated as a sophisticated therapist with telepathic powers. Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states... Come to think of it Dr. Island also explains the healing effect. I will see if I can find a link to the story, I read it in an Anthology years ago...
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Reader, I think you have to posit a bit too many "ifs" to say that Desmond doesn't really have the ability to see the future. Seems relatively indisputable to me.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Psychic ability is easy to fake, especially among paranoid and frightened people. Desmond may think he is for real, but that doesn't mean he is. He could merely be delusional.
I'll believe it-or not-after a few more episodes.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I don't remember Charlie say that Claire was swimming. In fact, when they came upon Sun with Aaron, he asked her where Claire was, and she replied that she went for a walk.
And as far as the lightning goes, could anyone really be smart enough to predict not just the very second of a random day it would start raining, but the exact location of lightning?
Really, it takes more of a logical leap to believe that he doesn't see the future.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
edit: changed to the Olde English site, though you can find it on YouTube as well...my crappy connection was having trouble with the site's version, which is why i originally linked to YouTube
[ February 20, 2007, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonide ]
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
That was great, Leonide. Thanks for posting it. I laughed quite a bit.
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
Hehehe. Thanks for that.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ha! The giant turtle idea would work, though, if they brought in a witch who was Native American. (creation myth) And the turtle would be walking, which is why they can;t find the island, and and...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
But what's the turtle standing on?
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
It's Turtles all the way down!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
hey Kira...small request. Can you change the link to the video to one that goes to an official Olde English site. That youtube video was uploaded by someone completely unrelated to them, and I'd like to see them get the traffic they deserve. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: But what's the turtle standing on?
Why, ceremony, of course.
Posted by Lord Of All Fools (Member # 3841) on :
Oh, yeah-- just to keep up with my "uptight" reputation-- the video contains some strong language. Probably isn't worksafe.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I'm sorry...but tonight's episode?
WHAT!?!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
So what three secrets were really addressed? I mean I know they sort of touched on the people kidnapped, so that might be one. If you stretch it, I guess the meaning of Jack's tattoos is two. So what's the third then?
I was fine with the episode though. I felt like stuff actually happened in it. I'm a little worried about next week though (what with the random key, the van thing, and of course Kate insisting on going after Jack).
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
ummm...the questions they promised to answer weren't really answered. In fact, they pretty much didn't tell us anything more than what they showed in the previews.
Booooooooooo.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I'm sorry, but the Jack we know would never have been attracted to that bizarro tattoo lady.
No. Way.
I think this just proves that the writers might have a storyline and plot arc planned, but they spent zippo time on actual character development
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
That was really disappointing.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:I'm sorry, but the Jack we know would never have been attracted to that bizarro tattoo lady.
No. Way.
Then he'd be the only one on the planet.
But physical attraction aside, she seemed to me to be well within Jack's "type". I really have no idea where you're coming from, Kira.
I really enjoyed the episode, but would rather have found out more from Cindy. And at the end, there's a huge ship off in the distance. Are they taking Jack and Juliette home?
I assumed they were going back to the big island, but I thought *everyone* was going.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I didn't mean physically...that would be a stupid statement to make, wouldn't it? She just acted slutty and trashy, even if she really wasn't...and of course she wasn't, since the whole build up was that jack was supposed to think she was a prostitute. and she was withholding and annoyingly mysterious. nothing like the two women we've seen jack attracted to -- his wife, and Kate. (granted, kate turned out to be withholding and annoyingly mysterious...but she didn't ACT like it -- at least not from the get-go) and she didn't need his "help" which is pretty much a given for Jack to be really into someone. Jack is always trying to fix his girlfriends...i think that has at least been established as a definitive character trait. And this girl didn't seem to need any fixing, in fact, she seemed like she was totally in control and in charge of the relationship. So at least i know where i'm coming from Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I have to agree with Kira there. Jack's savior complex would seem to keep him from getting really into a woman like that. Then again, he's on some island and a sexy Asian lady is all over him...so I can see why he wouldn't say no.
Why was he on that island? When was he on that island?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
This clearly wasn't any sort of boyfriend/girlfriend thing. At one point, Jack mentions her coming to see him at all hours of the night for a month now, and that he still doesn't know anything about her.
Is it really all that out-of-character for Jack, who we already find is having a relaxing vacation on Thailand for some reason, to have a short-term sexual relationship with a hot Thai chick?
I think the problem is that Jack hasn't become some sort of "guy with a savior complex" caricature. I mean, we have one woman who Jack had to save--his wife. He was also attracted to Kate for some reason, presumably Ana Lucia for some reason...possibly many others we don't see in flashbacks. Why do we assume that just because he's been portrayed as a man who likes things to save, doing so is his *only* motivation? And assume that he's been that way all his life?
Is that what TV teaches us? To mentally reject complexity for the comfort of a cardboard cutout character?
In reality, people do surprising things. One day, a girl might be a sweet, teetotaling musical theater nerd--the next, a White Russian guzzling wild woman dating a man with a ferret fetish. Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I thought the episode was pretty good overall, but I did feel ripped off with the teaser that 3 big secrets would be revealed.
1) Jack's tattoo: Pretty lame explanation, I would say, but at least it's an answer.
2 & 3 I'm not even sure. We saw some kidnapped people, but it seemed kind of silly just to have a group wander in, then wander out. Didn't really tell us anything. I don't even remember seeing any of those people. Why do we care about them?
I can't think of another secret really. If they would have never mentioned the big secrets, I would have been much happier with the episode.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
In reality, television shows rarely have deeply realistic characters -- which is why Jack being attracted to this women, as opposed to the others, reads as poor writing rather than complexity of character.
And truthfully, no, I don't see Jack, the Jack that the writers have shown us, at least, continuing a month-long relationship with a woman like the "Hot Thai" (what was her name? I heard "Hature" the first time and "Atura" before her brother beat him up...) and then showing signs that he's starting to have feelings for her.
Regarding the kidnapped people, I think that was a tease and a particularly annoyingly manipulative one, at that. "Oh, we're here to watch" -- no one SAYS things like that. Any normal person would elaborate. Does she assume Jack knows what she's talking about? Doesn't she notice he's in a cage, and therefore obviously not in on what the Others are doing?
I must have hit my television a record number of times last night.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I couldn't understand what "Hot Thai" said she saw in Jack: leadership, a great man and something else.
I also didn't get what his tattoo means. That whole thing was really confusing to me. It may have to do with my hearing loss or that it's late at night for me. Can anyone clarify this for me?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
i think his tattoo means that he's a leader, but a coward? She said something about him being a leader but being afraid...
So did the Hot Thai tell her brother that Jack had forced her to tattoo him, and THAT was why they beat him up? or was it because of the rules of her people? Which were what, exactly? Don't tattoo Americans? Don't "define" the man you're sleeping with? Don't ever, ever, ever wear blue eyeshadow?
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
She said he was a great leader, and that this made him lonely, afraid, and angry.
I don't see it as being completely out of character. This is an earlier version of Jack, and his attraction to Ana Lucia seemed to indicate that he can like the strong, non-broken type of woman as well as the ones who need saving. He ran away to Thailand for some reason, and perhaps when we know what reason his attraction will make more sense.
As far as the kidnapped stewardess commenting on watching, perhaps she thought Jack knew about the judgement. She is obviously not in the loop either, since she doesn't know about Micheal murdering Ana Lucia.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Ana Lucia was a non-broken woman? You can be broken (or maybe bent?) and still be a hard-a$$...Jack knows her, what, a day, and she kills one of his Losties. He must have seen some torment there to feed his fix-it addiction Plus, neither Kate nor his ex-wife were pushovers...the wilted, weak broken woman. They were women with BIG problems...one medical, one personal. And Jack WATCHED Ana Lucia go through a traumatic event, so he had even MORE reason to be attracted to her.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
I meant that Jack was attracted to her immediately when they met at the airport bar. In that setting, she did not seem to be broken.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
"I also didn't get what his tattoo means. That whole thing was really confusing to me. It may have to do with my hearing loss or that it's late at night for me. Can anyone clarify this for me?"
It "says" He walks among us, but is not one of us. In correlation to the leader aspect, it could very well be an Ender type of situation, how Ender as the leader he was never was really like everyone else, even when he was surrounded by friends. His leadership and abilities made him distinguishable and put him outside the crowd.
Or it could be he's God/a God incarnate. Whatever works.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Like right now. And think about what it means in relation to this weeks episode. Could Desmond possibly, for even that short time, actually have been in the past? Could, every time a character has a flasback, atually be transported back in time? Maybe the dont change tings because they think they're just remembering. Or the Hatchplosion have made Desmond the only one with this ability. I could be and probably am 100% wrong but all the same its a nice thought.
How do you make a signature? I want to use that line.
quote:Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states.
No one really commented on this, but I think this is actually a pretty valid theory. I've been independently thinking about it for a week now, and the more I think about it, the more I think it might be true. That the flashbacks each character has are not simply flashbacks, but Island induced flashbacks. Where the island is actually interacting with them in some way. This would even explain the presence of flashback elements on the island itself(Echo's brother, hurley's imaginary friend, Kate's horse, Jack's dad, etc..)
My question is, if this theory is true, is the island ONLY accessing their memories, or is it altering them as well(this could be one explanation for the seemingly unexplainable past connections between all the characters.
Maybe Desmond was just the first person to become actively aware of this island interaction in his flashback due to the failsafe event. We've already posited(or did we?) that the oracle lady was interacting with desmond ala the black smoke interacting with the other characters.
Also, given damien's link, I think that also might be a theory worth considering. It's not the first time we've had backwards talk on this show. And while I originally was only thinking in terms of the island interacting with them during flashbacks, given the "only fools are enslaved by time and space" lines, i'm open to the possibility that there is more going on during the flashbacks, especially given Desmond's new powers
[ February 23, 2007, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
The thing that has really been bugging me about Lost lately is that the characters never push for answers to their questions (if they even ask any of the questions in the first place).
Jack finally asked some questions and challenged the Others on what they were doing - kidnapping, hanging Charlie, etc. but he didn't really press for a real answer. He was a prisoner so I'll cut him some slack for not wanting to rock the boat too much but he should have been pressing on those points while he was doing the surgery on Ben.
Sawyer asked what they work on on the other island and didn't press for details when the answer was "projects".
I could find this believable in the context of a couple hour or even day time period you might get from a horror movie but over the course of weeks or months it gets hard to swallow.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:I meant that Jack was attracted to her immediately when they met at the airport bar. In that setting, she did not seem to be broken.
We're still talking about two separate levels of "attraction" here, which is where the breakdown in communication is happening. I'm talking "compatibility" attraction, you're talking "physical" attraction. Jack has been attracted to: Kate, his ex-wife, Ana lucia, Hot Thai, and presumably Juliette. That's physical. In terms of an attraction that's grown, or in terms of who he would be physically attracted to vs. who he would want to have a relationship with (well, they woudn't necessarily be opposites, but one's a subset of the larger group) only his ex-wife and Kate *really* fit that bill...although Ana lucia had potential. And we're not even talking *healthy* relationships here, we're just talking who Jack, the character, as the show has presented him to us, would be *really* interested in. I just don't see jack putting in the time or effort with Hot Thai, *especially* considering she was bossy and withholding, which are character traits that seem to clash with Jack's personality. Since he's bossy and withholding himself
And i've officially thought about this way too much.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
And the woman he kissed right before his wife told him she was leaving him. Jack gets around.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Perhaps the Island is doing a download when people are flashing back, interacting with them in altered states.
With the exception of Desmond, I have yet to see any evidence that anyone on the island has experienced a "flashback". The fact that we, the audience, see "flashbacks", i.e. episodes from the characters past, does not necessarily imply that those characters are experiencing flashbacks of the same events. There is nothing in the way the episodes are organized which would suggest the characters themselves are experiencing flashbacks. In fact, I think there is evidence to the contrary. For example, In one of the flashbacks involving Hurley, we see Libby in the psych hospital. If Hurley had indeed experienced that flashback, he would have remembered where he had met Libby before but he did not.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I can't list any examples, but there have been numerous episodes where it seemed suggested (to me) that the characters were remembering the particular flashbacks at the same time as we the audience were watching them...
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
The hatch blew up. There is no more button. Did the failsafe defuse whatever it was that kept needing to be reset every 108 minutes?
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!?!?
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Did the failsafe defuse whatever it was that kept needing to be reset every 108 minutes?
That is what was implied. To me the big question is why wasn't the failsafe used years ago? If the failsafe really was capable of difusing the problem, why wasn't it done immediately? There is an implication that there would be some sort of severe negative consequence to using the failsafe rather than hitting the button every 108 minutes. Perhaps something priceless was lost or the consequence for Desmond (or who ever else might have turned the key) was thought to be much greater than anything we are aware of.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:The fact that we, the audience, see "flashbacks", i.e. episodes from the characters past, does not necessarily imply that those characters are experiencing flashbacks of the same events. There is nothing in the way the episodes are organized which would suggest the characters themselves are experiencing flashbacks.
I never thought so either, but Desmond's flashback has made me change my mind. Like I said, it would go a long way to explaining how and why some of the Losties see halucinations on the island that are DIRECTLY related to the flashbacks that are shown for them.
Desmond may just be the first real indicator that this has been going on. And it would explain why his flashback episode was fundementally different from the rest of the flashback episodes, i.e.- it wasn't really. All the flashbacks have been the island interacting with the Losties in some way.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: I can't list any examples, but there have been numerous episodes where it seemed suggested (to me) that the characters were remembering the particular flashbacks at the same time as we the audience were watching them...
But thinking about a past event isn't the same as experiencing a flashback. Desmond talked about his life "flashing before his eyes" and how the "flashes" keep happening. That is something very different from thinking about an event in your past.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider:
quote:There is nothing in the way the episodes are organized which would suggest the characters themselves are experiencing flashbacks.
I never thought so either, but Desmond's flashback has made me change my mind. Like I said, it would go a long way to explaining how and why some of the Losties see halucinations on the island that are DIRECTLY related to the flashbacks that are shown for them.
I suppose it could be that everyone on the island is having flashbacks but I think that as of yet there is little evidence to suggest it. We know that people see things from their past on their island but we don't know whether they are halucinations or some manifestation from the island. In contrast, there just isn't any evidence that anyone but Desmond has had a flashback. We've never seen anyone zone out prior to one of the past episodes nor have we ever seen anyone wake up following a past episode nor has there been any other indication that the losties are having flashbacks.
Like I said, its possible. There isn't any evidence that contradicts it, there just isn't any evidence for it either.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
No comments on last nights episode?
Surprising since I thought it was infinitely better than the previous week's. I was actually really happy with last night's episode. I've said it before, but I really miss the interaction of all the characters, and last night I figured out why. You can always count on certain characters for something. Hurley always gives some much needed levity. Sayid is always very practical and getting information and making plans. Locke is similar, except has more faith in the mystery of the Island. And so on, each character serves a different purpose on that show, and when they are all together interacting, you get all these different elements in one episode.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the episode. And I'm psyched for next week.
Though I did think it was pretty out of character for Kate to not talk to someone like Sayid for help before taking off to find Rousseau herself.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I loved the VW bus sequence.
I have a friend who si a bus lover, and I refer to it as a "bus." He is always working on it, always. It is always breaking down. So I had to let him know that I had seen one in much better shape than his.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
"You found yourself a Hippy Car!"
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Well, for my friend, it is just a car.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"Is there really a hidden galaxy of minds living in seclusion in an inaccessible part of Asia, or is it merely a myth? Shambhala, the "Hidden Kingdom," is thought of in Tibet as a community where perfect and semiperfect beings live and are guiding the evolution of humankind. Shambhala is considered to be the source of the Kalacakra, which is the highest and most esoteric branch of Tibetan mysticism. The Buddha preached the teachings of the Kalacakra to an assembly of holy men in southern India. Afterwards, the teachings remained hidden for 1,000 years until an Indian yogi-scholar went in search of Shambhala and was initiated into the teachings by a holy man he met along the way. The Kalacakra then remained in India until it made its way to Tibet in 1026. Since then the concept of Shambhala has been widely known in Tibet, and Tibetans have been studying the Kalacakra for the least 900 years, learning its science, practicing its meditation, and using its system of astrology to guide their lives. As one Tibetan lama put it, how could Shambhala be the source of something which has affected so many areas of Tibetan life for so long and yet not exist?"
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Here's another snip from the above link:
"By definition Shambhala is hidden. It is thought to exist somewhere between the Gobi Desert and the Himalayas, but it is protected by a psychic barrier so that no one can find the kingdom who is not meant to."
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
To be honest, while I enjoyed the episode I didn't like it as much as other ones. Of course, my interests in Lost relate to DHARMA and the Others and not the people on the beach as much anymore. To me, next week looks like a really exciting episode. The eye-patch man returns! Fun!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Hmm. Dharma. Tibetan lost kingdom(Shambala=Shangrila)
(I am sure this is not a revelation, but hey.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
That was a great episode. Nothing advanced, except our knowledge of Hurley's relationship with his father, but it was fun. That was needed at this point.
I can't wait for one-eye to reappear. This should be good, but I won't get my hopes up.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
The fact that nothing advanced disappointed me. I hate it when TV shows advertise something as being big and huge and exciting and then it turns out to be a hippie car.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
You forgot the beer.
Loved the episode. It seems like every day on the island is field trip day. I mean, can't we just take a day and relax? Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Sawyer is my favorite.
"Beer... Car..." Points to Hurley... "International House of Pancakes!"
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
The van would have tipped over in the first 5 seconds.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
This is television, Launchy. In real life the plane probably would not have crashed, and entities like Dharma can't go unnoticed for more than a few years (Area 51, for example).
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
See, we know there are supernatural things going on in the series. Thus, I can ignore the big things like the plane crash because there is clearly something supernatural that allowed them to live and that is hiding the island. The little things--like the fact that the van was bouncing so wildly that it would have lost control and tipped--that just takes me out of the story. You see what I mean? I can deal with the car magically starting, but when you show the van about to lose control, then cut to another angle and another take, and do it repeatedly...well you see what I mean.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
The tires would have been flat. The gas would have leaked out through a rusted tank. The beer? I don;t even want to think about it! Etc. I don't care, I loved it.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I thought Sawyer was a crack up this episode as well. When he called the corpse "Skelletor" I had tears in my eyes.
[ March 03, 2007, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: sweetbaboo ]
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: See, we know there are supernatural things going on in the series. Thus, I can ignore the big things like the plane crash because there is clearly something supernatural that allowed them to live and that is hiding the island. The little things--like the fact that the van was bouncing so wildly that it would have lost control and tipped--that just takes me out of the story. You see what I mean? I can deal with the car magically starting, but when you show the van about to lose control, then cut to another angle and another take, and do it repeatedly...well you see what I mean.
We don't know that there are supernatural things going on. This has never been explained well enough, at least for me. Are we just supposed to assume that the geomagnetic anomoly and the smoke are supernatural? Maybe they were man-made. The smoke could be a ghost, or it could be an extremely advanced carbon-fiber machine.
And I think that a car can get started if it is roll it down a hill. It isn't much different from the old hand cranks. Heck, maybe the car was planted and made to appear old.
I don't think the writers know what they want to do. The show is entertaining, but I'm tired of be jerked around.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
This is pretty cool.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
That was pretty cool. I was quite impressed. I wish I was that good with Photoshop.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
rough translation of conversation between the russian and the black lady:
...
You know what you have to do.
there's another way
no. you have to do it.
no, we can get out of this.
you know the protocol, you have to do this. do it now.
...
the last thing he says is "forgive me".
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Ah. That was what I was thinking they were saying (or close to it), particularly from their expression and what happened. So that works.
I'm interested in this alarm system in next week's episode. Looks interesting (particularly what Locke does with the prisoner).
Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :
Did Sayid really torture that woman, or was he just admitting it to stop his own beating? My impression is that his confession to her was real, but I'm not sure. I didn't see seasons one or two, so I'm guessing there's some backstory I haven't seen that is relevant.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I would have liked it if they had explained that, too. Maybe Sayid was blocking his memory of the woman, and it came back to him with her story.
I was very confused by the actions of eyepatch-man. From shooting, to helping, to fighting again. What did Sayid say that gave it away that he knew eyepatch was lying?
Why is it protocol to kill the black woman?
Double-U. Tee. Eff.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think it was the fact that Sayid was deliberately provoking eyepatch that gave it away. The whole "well, at least we got to kill one of them" was definitely him trying to rile up eyepatch. Eyepatch knew at that point that the jig was for sure up, so why keep it up then?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Right--that makes sense now. Thanks pfresh.
I love that you have to win the chess game to log into the Dharma system. I'm a big chess geek.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I was hoping that they would save a few Dharma manuals. They need new reading material, but Playboys probably never get old for people on a deserted island.
In next weeks promo, it looked like Sayid tried to kill Eyepatch (He had a name, what was it?) by throwing him through the alarm system. Promos are slightly misleading though. I think there is some advantage for them to keep the guy, maybe for a prisoner exchange.
And if none of the communication equipment worked, why did he stay the Flame Station? Food production?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I thought it was Locke who was trying to kill Eyepatch (whose name I think is Mikail, spelling?), as I swear I heard Sayid yell "John! No!" or something like that.
As for the Flame Station, maybe the communication stuff did work and Eyepatch just lied about it. It's hard to say how much truth he was telling. Also there could have been something else of importance there that we didn't see (maybe a communication point between all the stations or different areas of the island or something?).
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
If it is a juncture of all the big cables then the power for the 'others' enclave is most likely compromised now. Also the 77 code will most likely end the shipments from the outside world with some sort of hard signal, a dead man switch or something.
I think the settlers are well and truly screwed by this turn of events. More then that they are stupid. They do not have the numbers on the island to play a game of attrition.
To me it looked like Sayid spotted the security sensor and then the patch guy ran to trigger it. Another of those better to die then give up the all important secret moments.
My interest is in the way that the plane crash people have settled into a rather altruistic communal sharing situation. Easy enough of course with regular food shipments but I imagine things might get capitalistic again once it is dog eat pig again.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I think the "Hostiles" are just another part of the Dharma setup.
And in the preview for next week, it seems like Eyepatch is trying to kill himself on the "fence" and John is trying to stop him.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, I think you're right, Frisco. I went to Youtube and rewatched the preview. It does look like Eyepatch is trying to kill himself, Locke grabs his collar but loses hold, the guy runs into the "fence."
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by CounterBean: My interest is in the way that the plane crash people have settled into a rather altruistic communal sharing situation. Easy enough of course with regular food shipments but I imagine things might get capitalistic again once it is dog eat pig again.
And Sawyer will be the guy everyone looks to for help, unless other survivors try to compete. If a few other people do compete, then the whole group may settle in to a capitalistic pacifism because they won't have to rely on ruthless Sawyer. Unless The Others (or is it Hostiles now?) attempt an attack.
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: I think the "Hostiles" are just another part of the Dharma setup.
Hey, why not? This trickery strategy was already tried with the Swan station being watched by that other station. (Argh, there are too many names to remember right now.)
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
No comments about last night's episode? I thought it was pretty boring, especially after the last few episodes have been good.
Despite that, one big revelation, that being that Jack and Claire are brother and sister. This kinda bugs me. It seems a lot like one of those "let's keep heaping on the mysteries" moments. Maybe it will play out into something good, but I seriously doubt that this was planned from day one, and that makes me doubt the overall vision of the writers.
Next week's episode looks good!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I thought the writing for the last two episodes has been terrible.
Claire's rant at the end, in her mother's hospital room, was particularly awful. Like, After-School-Special awful.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
See, I don't mind, because I think one of the main premises of the show is that coincidences abound. I'm also more intrigued in Locke, which works well considering the subject of next week's episode.
As for the sibling thing, it's been planned for a while. There was a flashback (my wife thinks in a Sawyer episode) of Jack's dad going to what looked like the aunt's house right on his last drunken trip back to Australia. It was in the rain, IIRC.
-Bok
EDIT: It looks like it was an episode from last season, and it was Claire's mom (still might be the aunt).
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Really? This was the boring one for you? I found it boring initially, but once we got past the Charlie/Claire blah-fest at the beginning it was pretty good. Then again, I'm more interested in the bizarre elements of the show (the Others, DHARMA, and even Desmond's visions). I want to be away from the beach more, so that way I get to know more about the mysteries.
I do agree with you about next week's episode though. A Locke-centric episode is usually good anyways. One that involves possibly explaining how he is no longer paralyzed and that shows him (at least to some extent) invading the Others' main home area looks to be awesome.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Maybe it will play out into something good, but I seriously doubt that this was planned from day one, and that makes me doubt the overall vision of the writers.
Bok is right, and I seem to recall us all theorizing right away that Claire was most likely Jack's sister. So this really came as no big surprise. The only thing I find interesting about it is that Claire actually met him and knows what he looks like, so I'm sure at some point it'll all come out somehow.
quote:A Locke-centric episode is usually good anyways. One that involves possibly explaining how he is no longer paralyzed
I'm pretty sure we know that pfresh, it was the island. The bigger question is how he BECAME paralyzed in the first place. I'm also curious as to whether eye patch man actually knew Locke from the past, or was just commenting on the fact that he knew Locke was paralyzed. maybe we'll find out next week.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Yeah, but what really happened? They found a trap, they got over it, they found the Other's camp. Well, I knew that was going to happen last week. I thought the only interesting part of the Locke/Kate/Sayid storyline was that we got a better idea of Locke's reasons for finding the Others.
The whole beach part of the episode sucked royally. Nothing new in the Desmond/Charlie storyline, it was just there for the purpose of including Claire in the episode so that they could do her flashback.
Edit: That reply is to pfresh. As for Claire and Jack being related, this is the first I've heard of it, but that's no big surprise. I haven't really been paying attention to all the speculation. I like the show, but keeping track of everything has gone beyond my caring.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Well, we know it's something about the island, but we don't know what. I mean originally there was speculation that it was the electro-magnetic aspects being controlled by the hatch. Now with that blown, he's still okay. So it's something else. The fact that Eyepatch mentioned that "the John Locke I know is paraly-" seems to say to me that maybe it'll be addressed. I understand though that we will see how he became paralyzed in the first place (particularly since we see Ben mentioning it). I'm more interested in the former than the latter though.
As for what happened, the stuff that interested me was Eyepatch explaining the list a little better (or at least defining a little more why some people are on the list and why others aren't). Also we saw Jack being integrated into the Others at their camp, rather than being held hostage. Add to that the Locke stuff (Locke had some good lines last night), and I was fine with the episode.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Question:
is anyone else tiring of the flashback formula?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Not when it's done well, and it's interesting.
The alternative is a half-hour show.
-Bok
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
They'll show us how he got paralyzed, but I kind of doubt they'll explain how he got un-paralyzed.
This episode was great, I thought. Next week looks to be even better. They're finally showing us stuff. One reveal a season was nuts.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
The problem I had with the episode was the contrived conflict between Sayid and Locke. Totally out of character for both of them, I think.
That, and the whole controversy with Charlie and the bird. Didn't seem realistic.
I did like that we found the Others' camp and saw Jack...enjoying himself.
Claire being his sister has been speculated at for a while now.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Where are the black people? Walt and his dad are gone, Ecko is dead, and the woman with the dentist husband, it's like she never even existed. Did she die? I forgot. They must have done some market research and found that black people don't watch Lost. Sure as hell probably aren't going to start now.
So the minority count is basically Sayid, Hurley... and I guess there's probably a Canadian or two running around the island.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: the woman with the dentist husband, it's like she never even existed. Did she die? I forgot.
The actress who plays Rose is not a regular cast member, and I seem to recall her saying that she doesn't wish to be be. I could be wrong.
The actor who played Mr. Eko left because of the recent death of his parents and a desire to re-direct his life. (There are rumors he also didn't get along too well with the rest of the cast)
Walt is gone most likely because of the age problem...he's growing up fast.
Though I wouldn't say we'll never see him or his father again.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
No, I just think it's a White conspiracy. Or a Canadian conspiracy.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: Claire being his sister has been speculated at for a while now.
I don't know what's "been speculated", but last season in the flashback episode where Ana Lucia is acting as Jack's father's body guard in Australia, he wakes Ana Lucia in the middle of the night and has her drive him to a woman's house. A blond woman, who we now know as Claire's aunt, comes to the door and he demands that she tell him where his daughter is. She refuses and so Ana Lucia drops him at the bar where he meets Sawyer. Following that episode, I predicted that Claire would turn out to be the daughter.
A point was made in this weeks show that Claire never learned her father's name even though she met him. That will make it difficult for her to make the connection to Jack unless a picture of Jack's dad happens to be floating around the island somewhere.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
What if they hooked up? You know, Merry the Hobbit dies and Claire goes to Jack for consolation... just like in Star Wars, when Leia kisses Luke!!! Then Jack's dad shows up: "Claire, I'm your Father!" Jack: "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!"
Hmmm, I got confused.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
One quick question from a non-fan: Do you guys still believe that the writers have some sort of grand vision? Or do not care and are just going for the ride anyway?
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
I have come to be angry at the show. It is horrible -- both the anger, and the show. (Why won't anything HAPPEN??!!?) But I still watch every episode on the wild hope that the writers might have a grand vision.
It's a fool's hope, though, if season two and (so far) season three are any indication.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
I mean. I mean could Lost really have aired an episode in which one of the two main plots hinged on a game of ping-pong with a humorous outcome?
What planet is this?
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
quote:Originally posted by TL: I have come to be angry at the show. It is horrible -- both the anger, and the show. (Why won't anything HAPPEN??!!?) But I still watch every episode on the wild hope that the writers might have a grand vision.
It's a fool's hope, though, if season two and (so far) season three are any indication.
One recalls the running consipiracy plot in "The X-Files." But you know, at least the substance of that show's run was mostly episodic and unconcerned with that particular plot thread. It didn't matter at the end that not much was resolved.
Will we be able to say the same for Lost if it ends after next season?
And wait a minute, what did all the mythology and continuity of "Alias" amount to...? Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by the_Somalian: One quick question from a non-fan: Do you guys still believe that the writers have some sort of grand vision? Or do not care and are just going for the ride anyway?
I think they have a basic idea. Some details may be subject to change from time to time, but I think they have a concept they're following.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I believe that they have some big idea, but the details can change as they go along. I know I read in an interview with one of the writers (I think it was in an issue of Wizard) that they had a definite plot that would last them for four or five seasons, and they were concerned that if Lost was still really popular at that point that they wouldn't be able to end it the way they wanted to.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Woo, two posts in a row. I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I liked seeing how Locke's paralysis was related to his other flashbacks. I thought it was pretty good.
I'm curious to others' opinions on the box that Ben was talking about. I expected Locke's father would be the result Ben was talking about (even before he went into his talk of "how it felt"). I was thinking that maybe the box goes into subconscious stuff and pulls stuff out. That would explain some of the things people have seen (like the horse and that one guy in the suit or whatever). Of course, I could be way off.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Great episode tonight. Locke is awesome.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
It amazes me that after how many times Locke has been taken in, he still falls for it EVERY SINGLE TIME. That man has zero capacity to learn.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I was waiting for the cop to mention that one of Locke's father's previous aliases had been Frank Sawyer.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
quote:I was waiting for the cop to mention that one of Locke's father's previous aliases had been Frank Sawyer.
That connection would be so cool that my head might just explode. Good call!
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I thought it was fairly obvious, actually. Ford/Sawyer learned his con techniques from the original Sawyer. And they both used the "Oops, I didn't mean for you to see that" draw. Locke's father looks to be the right age to have been a young man when Ford/Sawyer was a kid.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
You remember when Hurley was in a meeting and some guy fell past the window? That was probably Locke.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I thought this was a good episode as well.
My heart broke for Danielle as she watched her daughter. Hopefully after Sayid's comments, the daughters heart will question and wonder enough so that when Danielle does confront her, she'll be open to it. I'm a sucker for relationships to work.
I also like what everyone has to say about the episode, since it seems that everyone takes something different away from it everytime. Interesting.
From the last few episodes I was beginning to wonder if Locke was an "other" plant (because he was doing bizarre thing) so I'm glad to see that he's not.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
quote:I thought it was fairly obvious, actually.
That's kind of my point...it's been laying out there for three seasons and the connection makes so much sense. Now I just hope it's true.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by kojabu: You remember when Hurley was in a meeting and some guy fell past the window? That was probably Locke.
Holy crow. Does the time work out? This was 4 years before Oceanic 815 went down (Ben said Locke was in a wheelchair for 4 years). How long before the crash did that scene with Hurley happen?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Doesn't look like it's Locke, but maybe.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The guy falling was screaming, and facing down. Locke fell silently with shattered glass all around him and was facing up. It would have been interesting, though.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Nah, that happened at the most a year before the crash... more likely months. Doesn't fit. And Hurley was in an office building, while Locke and PopLocke were in an apartment building or hotel.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:It amazes me that after how many times Locke has been taken in, he still falls for it EVERY SINGLE TIME. That man has zero capacity to learn.
John is nothing if not consistent. Watching him play with the chess-computer was hysterical. Does the man not know to stay away from buttons??
And I saw the window thing coming from a mile away. John has about an inch of foresight.
And I still don't think his reasons for blowing up the submarine make alot of sense. Is he so self-absorbed he wouldn't let his fellow Castaways get off the island? I really liked Locke until this season. Course, after what he's been through, I can't blame him for being a crazy bastard.
Great acting though. The terror in his eyes as he was lowered into the wheelchair...woah!
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
HUGE SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Want to know the identities of The Final Five?
SyFy Portal has revealed some major spoilers for the Season 3 finale of "Battlestar Galactica."
That info would go really well in this thread.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Humm.... oops...
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Ben: "...What makes you think you know this island better than I do?"
Locke: "Because you're in a wheelchair, and I'm not."
Mooselet: "Now that's a good point."
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shannon: And I still don't think his reasons for blowing up the submarine make alot of sense. Is he so self-absorbed he wouldn't let his fellow Castaways get off the island?
Yes, he is. He is a zealot. He believes in The Island so much that he is willing ruin the chances of rescue because he thinks The Island is better. I do understand the roots of his zealotry. It healed him, and he thinks that it can save everyone. In Locke's mind, this is better, and maybe it is.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Am I watching Lost?
Are we actually getting the back story of two minor characters who are already dead?
This better go somewhere good.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Right, this isn't promising. I agree: I hope it goes somewhere.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Okay, that was pretty horrible. Stephen King horrible. Sheesh.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Yeah, wow. I can't believe they did that. Crazy.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
This episode works as an homage to the old EC horror comics, right down to the telegraphed ending.
Doesn't work so well as an episode of an ongoing story.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I'm pretty sure I've seen this episode sans island and the spiders. I mean, doesn't every show do an episode like this??
And so much was footage from old episodes. What a waste of my hour!
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
So, do they come back, or are they just buried alive? Sorry. That'll teach ya.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
We got to see Ethan, for no reason. We got to see Ben exposing his methods, as if we didn't already know them. About the only way the plot moved forward at all was Sun finding out about what Charlie and Sawyer did to her. That's it.
Oh, and the fact that they now have one of the Others' walkie talkies. Which might actually come in useful at some point.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
More than anything else, this episode made me miss season 1. And even some of season 2.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I hope this isn't what the writers meant when they said Nikki and Palo (that's his name, right?) had a larger role later in the season. If that's the case, what a lame hype up.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Unless they do. Who knows what Paolo did with that walkie while he had it, right? They may be dead, but they could figure in flashbacks, and we'd need this ep as a setup.
Just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I thought the ending was awesome, even if I saw it coming. I mean, the spider was just too obvious to miss. Still, I would rather learn more about characters that we're already invested in rather than learn rather ridiculous facts about Nikki and Paulo.
I agree with Lisa that they didn't further the plot any. But then again, what exactly did the ping pong game do to further the plot? I think it's just that they've killed off so many great characters *cough* Eko *cough* that they need to add some new characters just to keep up the diversity. I think that's partly what the others were for.
Still, I want to know what the heck happened to Locke with his father. How did he get on the island?!? The other side of the island is so much more intriguing right now.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
That ending was awesome! I also thought the episode was ok, if a bit slow for this late in the season. Also, perhaps we haven't seen the end of Nikki and Paolo? This is the magical island afterall, so I could even see them still being alive.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Worst episode yet. I hope you're right, Lisa. Otherwise, like Shanna said.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
It's not the end of Nikki and Paulo. I know for a fact that they come back. Still, being buried alive is pretty cool. You have to at least give me that.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: I thought the ending was awesome, even if I saw it coming. I mean, the spider was just too obvious to miss.
<nod> It was the "gun in the first act". Though I wasn't thinking very clearly, 'cause I'm sick, so I didn't realize it only paralyzed them until Nikki said it.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: I know for a fact that they come back.
How? Both how do you know, and how do they come back? After all, both Boone and Shannon are dead for real, and they were back in this ep.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
maybe Desmond has a vision at the last minute.
Though I think they're dead...and gone.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I read in Entertainment Weekly that the creators have some "grand vision" for Nikki and Paulo and there was a reason that they brought them onto the show. That does NOT mean killing them within the first 5 episodes that they're on. Plus, they wouldn't just leave this loose end. If they just die, and that's it, then there's this whole great plot point just sitting out there. They HAVE to capitalize on the story.
And it's not just flashbacks. I'm pretty sure they're going to add something to the plot on the island. I have no idea how, but it's going to happen.
Now, I'm not saying that I actually LIKE these guys. They annoy me to the extreme. Although, I have to say that Paulo is growing on me. But Nikki just bugs me. I wish they would die, but I doubt it.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
I don't see any reason why every episode has to further the overall plot. Some of my favorite episodes are just character stories that go nowhere in terms of the others or the island or rescue. I enjoyed the story, and I thought it was neat how those two and Artz were given some additional depth in terms of what they were doing in season 1 while the show focused on the main characters.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Also, and I just got this from reading an online article at the Entertainment Weekly website, Locke distinctly said that nothing stays buried on the beach. There has GOT to be a reason for that line. Perhaps the rainstorm that we saw in the next episode with Juliet and Kate fighting washes away the grave. That would make sense, wouldn't it?
Btw, sorry for the double post.
Edit: one more thing, the dog (I forget his name) KNEW that they weren't dead. He pulled the blanket off them, remember? So, maybe he digs them up or something.
Also, I can guarantee you that they're somehow "changed" when they come back up. Probably not to the extreme that Desmond changed, but there will be a difference.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: I read in Entertainment Weekly that the creators have some "grand vision" for Nikki and Paulo and there was a reason that they brought them onto the show. That does NOT mean killing them within the first 5 episodes that they're on. Plus, they wouldn't just leave this loose end. If they just die, and that's it, then there's this whole great plot point just sitting out there. They HAVE to capitalize on the story.
And it's not just flashbacks. I'm pretty sure they're going to add something to the plot on the island. I have no idea how, but it's going to happen.
Now, I'm not saying that I actually LIKE these guys. They annoy me to the extreme. Although, I have to say that Paulo is growing on me. But Nikki just bugs me. I wish they would die, but I doubt it.
Yeah, this is what I heard in the a similar interview in Toyfare/Wizard. They said they had some large role, which is why I said I'd be disappointed (particularly with the over-hype) if this was the end of them. My guess is we'll see them again though.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: Also, I can guarantee you that they're somehow "changed" when they come back up. Probably not to the extreme that Desmond changed, but there will be a difference.
BRAAIIINS!
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: Also, I can guarantee you that they're somehow "changed" when they come back up. Probably not to the extreme that Desmond changed, but there will be a difference.
BRAAIIINS!
The Zombie Season! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:Worst episode yet.
I think that award goes to the van episode.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
No. That one was at least entertaining. And it featured a backstory about a character we actually care about. It was better because it was an all around characters-we-care-about episode, unlike last wednesday's.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I'm a week late.
I didn't like last week's episode because it had spiders. I don't like spiders, especially the alive kind.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nikki and Paolo were collaborating with the Others. I expect it. They already killed a guy and stole his diamonds. They don't care about anyone else, and they have deceived each other. Being double agents wouldn't be a new step in their lives.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I don't usually watch Lost, but I'm in a ridiculously posh hotel in Milwaukee by myself and missing my wife and the TV is on. And right now, two girls in thin T-shirts are handcuffed to each other and wrestling in a torrential downpour, and I'm thinking "that's some real good fan service, right there."
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
And then they fall in the mud.
Best episode ever!
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
No, it wasn't. They didn't start making out. THAT would have been the best episode ever.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Resh, I didn't find the van one to be entertaining at all. It was a waste of an hour.
And the big black thing is back! woo!
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I'm with Apostle Radio. I don't care much that the plot wasn't advanced meaningfully in some (or even most) episodes. I was entertained, and the episode seemed very much an homage to some old-fashioned TV.
This week's was intriguing... I really want to know what the island did to Sayid; it's becoming clear to me that he's got some sort of Inner Eye/Sixth Sense thing.
-Bok
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ditto. Plus, I am still thinking there was a lot to the "Shambhala" reference.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I thought this week's episode was pretty awesome.
I was also psyched because I realized early on that Juliette's new predicament would necessitate a big expose to the Losties about what she knows some time soon.
So what happened with Locke's dad? Where did the Others go and what are they doing? Are the Losties going to take over the Others' old home?
I also think that when the black smoke got really close to Juliette the first time that it was interacting with her in some way. Doing something to her? Taking something away from her? The flashes almost seemed like it was taking pictures. But she also seemed to be reacting to it very differently from Kate.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I almost wondered if the smoke monster was scanning her, checking her to see who she is/what she's done. I mean after it did that (with the flashes of light and all), it left for a bit. When it came back, it seemed like its focus was mainly Kate (although this can be argued of course). I don't know, I could be wrong on all this. Those were just my thoughts.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
The smoke seemed to show up just after something violent and angry happened between Kate and Juliette. Maybe it's attracted by strong emotions, and then judges the people involved to see if it feels that they need to be removed.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
When I saw the black smoke coming near Juliette and Kate the first thing I thought was pictures.
The fact that the barrier stopped it is interesting. It made wonder what the makeup of the barrier actually is and how it could stop the black smoke.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I don't think it was a scan. I think it was editing her memories.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:When I saw the black smoke coming near Juliette and Kate the first thing I thought was pictures.
I thought the same thing...only I thought it right when the wet t-shirt fight started.
Then I realized I had the episode DVRed.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by kojabu: The fact that the barrier stopped it is interesting. It made wonder what the makeup of the barrier actually is and how it could stop the black smoke.
I makes me wonder what it means about the makeup of the black smoke. I mean, Kate, Sayid and John were able to go over the barrier. Why couldn't the black smoke just jump the fence?
Could the barrier have been constructed specifically to keep out the black smoke? How did Juliette know that the barrier would stop the black smoke even though she'd never seen it before?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
she had seen it before. she was lying to Kate so Kate would feel like they were in it together and not leave her behind. she also said that though she had seen it before, she didn't know what it was...to what extent we don't know exactly.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
That was my first thought too Tom, but then in the previews for next week it doesn't seem like she's lost any memories.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by kojabu: The fact that the barrier stopped it is interesting. It made wonder what the makeup of the barrier actually is and how it could stop the black smoke.
I makes me wonder what it means about the makeup of the black smoke. I mean, Kate, Sayid and John were able to go over the barrier. Why couldn't the black smoke just jump the fence?
Could the barrier have been constructed specifically to keep out the black smoke? How did Juliette know that the barrier would stop the black smoke even though she'd never seen it before?
I don't think the black smoke has any intelligence. It could have gone over the barrier, but I assume it doesn't have enough of a though process to do so.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:That was my first thought too Tom, but then in the previews for next week it doesn't seem like she's lost any memories.
Well, my thought is that it wasn't removing memories, but was editing them. That gives them plausible deniability for all continuity errors.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
And an excuse not to tell us everything she knows in the next episode.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
The Black Smoke has mostly killed, or attempted to kill, people that have a great tendency for violence. I think it may have never "seen" Julliette before (it is implied that she didn't leave the barrier once she came to the island, but I don't know if that's true), and was scanning her to determine if she needed removed. Because she has committed a murder, she may be removed soon. It almost got her last time.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: The Black Smoke has mostly killed, or attempted to kill, people that have a great tendency for violence. I think it may have never "seen" Julliette before (it is implied that she didn't leave the barrier once she came to the island, but I don't know if that's true), and was scanning her to determine if she needed removed. Because she has committed a murder, she may be removed soon. It almost got her last time.
Really? I guess I just can't see that pattern.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
What did the pilot do?
I don't think it's violence at all. I think it's extreme emotions, period. The pilot was next to hysterical. Eko was highly emotional. Kate and Juliet were in a lather. It stopped when they calmed themselves.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
What a sweet episode. Have you noticed how they're alternating filler with super-duperness? We're like fish on a line, and the angler is just wearing us down. I hate Lost. Best show ever.
I like that theory Tom. You don't watch the show regularly, huh? Nothing like an outsider to point out something those of us in the middle of it are missing. The more I think about it, the more I like it. That would definitely explain a whole lot. Hell, it explains everything!!! Think about it. The premonitions, the Polar Bear, the horse... I gotta watch the whole series over again now.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Are we sure that the barrier actually stopped the Smoke, and not Juliette herself? I'm of the opinion that Juliette knows more than she is letting on, and has a separate mission of some sort.
-Bok
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Sure looked like a barrier, the way the smoke behaved when it came up on it.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Of course, but why does Juliette stare the thing down? Combined with the weird "flashes" the night before, implying communication, perhaps, it all seems a bit intriguing to me.
-Bok
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
She also flipped the switch and we never saw her flip it back (unless I missed it or don't remember). Maybe it's one setting for humans and one for the black smoke.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Maybe your memories were edited and you never really saw the episode.
Posted by Gecko (Member # 8160) on :
SAWYER'S A DADDY!
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: What did the pilot do?
I don't think it's violence at all. I think it's extreme emotions, period. The pilot was next to hysterical. Eko was highly emotional. Kate and Juliet were in a lather. It stopped when they calmed themselves.
I think you might be right. I don't remember Locke having killed anyone. What was Locke doing when it scanned him?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think it could be something about not feeling regret for past wrongs or something. I mean look at what it did to Eko. It also seemed to be focused on Kate last week, and she even said that she didn't regret what she did (in her flashback with her mother). I mean I could be totally wrong, but I think the smoke monster has the ability to get into peoples' heads and possibly assume shapes from there (which would explain the odd things people see on the island). As for the pilot, we have no clue one way or the other what he did, so it's hard for us to say anything based on him alone. I think we have to make judgments based on people we know background information about. As I said though, I could be wrong. It's just a theory. Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
"she's under my protection"
what a dope! who says that?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
A mob boss?
I liked the episode. Of course I like any stuff where I learn a little more about the Others and how they work. Maybe I'm odd in that though.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Yay for learning stuff.
I really want to like Juliette. I want her to come out for the good guys, our beloved Castaways.
And I want to kick Ben everytime he messes with people.
But even more, I want to kick everyone who keeps falling for it.
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
I'm on the same page. I'm not sure why, but the way Juliette has been drawn, I've always gotten the sense that she'd end up on the castaway's side.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking since she's the one "Other" that they've spent the most time covering other than perhaps Ben.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: "she's under my protection"
what a dope! who says that?
An alpha male. Which Matthew Fox, I'm sorry, cannot pull off. It threw me out of the story a little when he said that.
It's interesting. I thought about who, on the island, could say that and make it sound believable. I came up with Sayid and Ben/Henry. The two deadliest people there.
[Edit: Maybe Eko could have managed it when he was alive. Dead, there'd be a plausibility issue.]
[ April 12, 2007, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Lisa ]
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Thoughts on what they're going to do in a week aside from come and take them? They'd probably want Sun because she's pregnant.
This was definately one of the best episodes yet.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Agreed. Totally engaging... Juliette is easily one of the most interesting characters now.
Posted by Gecko (Member # 8160) on :
They need to get Desmond back into the plot, he's my favorite character, brotha
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Bowles: Agreed. Totally engaging... Juliette is easily one of the most interesting characters now.
Definately. I want to get inside her head and figure out why she's doing what she's doing, why she seemingly finds it relatively easy to doublecross them (obviously she might not, but the look on her face at the end was pretty telling). Is she just bitter? Was she brainwashed while she was there? Oh the questions...
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gecko: They need to get Desmond back into the plot, he's my favorite character, brotha
Seconded. Oh, and has the universe stopped trying to kill Charlie? Did I miss something?
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
I think the universe stepped out for a cup of tea. Should be back with some nefarious plans for Charlie soon enough. A karmic reckoning for "You all Everybody," isn't anywhere near paid in full. Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I thought it was the barrier that stopped the black smoke...is there some other reason (besides the flicking lights) that you think it edits minds Tom? It's an intriguing idea.
quote:I makes me wonder what it means about the makeup of the black smoke. ...
Could the barrier have been constructed specifically to keep out the black smoke?
I hope that Juliette will/is able to give us some more information about the black smoke.
Great episode.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: Seconded. Oh, and has the universe stopped trying to kill Charlie? Did I miss something?
In the van episode, Hurley was convinced that by fixing up the van and facing death, both he and Charlie could show the universe who is in charge and start making their own luck.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Julliette really wants off the island. I think she'll turn on Ben, but she may also not side with the castaways. What she does will be whatever gets her back to her sister. She doesn't seem to have any loyalties other than that.
Was the universe ever trying to kill Charlie? I still don't believe that Desmond really has the power of prophesy. However, I fully expect my belief to be shattered by the rest of this season.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I wanted Juliette to be killed off, and still do. She is a creep.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Thank you, Cow! I remember now. What I should really do is wait until the season is over and download all the episodes and watch them in a marathon while I wear sweats and refuse to bathe. Maybe then I could remember this stuff.
By the time Heroes comes back, I'll be like, "Wait! Who's the short guy with the sword? And what happened to...that girl... with the hair?"
Getting old sucks.
Liz, I dislike Juliette, too. I sympathize with her desire to get off the island, but I'd also like to see someone beat her bloody with a halibut.
Almost as much as I dislike Ben, whose death should involve multiple kicks to his smarmy little weasel face (and possibly his groin).
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Olive, we are sisters in violent fantasy against certain characters from Lost.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, and I disagree about Ben's death! They tried the face thing. He just needs to be done away woth quickly, before he can say a thing.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I think to kill Ben you'd have to cut of his head before he speaks, so he can't ensorcell you. You must then burn the head and body in different fires for 24 hours, then spread the ashes to the four winds.
I think Juliette started out good, and has been pushed past her limits. I hope she gets a chance at redemption.
Also, she's the cutest one left alive, so I hope she sticks around for a while. Preferably with more mud wrestling.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Liz, Cow-- You're right about Ben needing to be taken out quickly. I think I would be satisfied if he could be made to suffer and still live, though. Know what I'd really like to see? The French Woman kick his child-stealing bahookie.
And I don't want Juliette to die. She could be completely redeemed in my eyes by means of a good fish-slapping (Or, *waves to Cow* a nice dirty girlfight in which she is soundly beaten, but recovers) and a change of her ways.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
So, halibut is the latest hi-tech torture tool.
Juliet will probably get her redemption. TV never allows people with sick siblings/spouses to become bad and never be good again. I don't care if this is Lost.
The teaser for the next episode leads me to think that someone from Dharma will "visit." Their communication has been cut off, so someone on the outside is going to want to know why no one is ordering supplies, and where their contacts have gone. I don't think it is going to get better for the castaways.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I enjoyed this week's episode, mainly because I like Desmond so much. I'm interested to know who this new person is and what she means for the people on the island.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Was it really a surprise that it wasn't Penny in the chopper? I mean...why the heck would she be reading Catch 22 in some other language? And why wouldn't Desmond or any of the other guys question that fact?
Anyone know what language that was?
I feel bad for Jack. Kate is off screwing Sawyer and Jack is getting closer to the chick that's stabbing them all in the back.
Did anyone notice the brief shot of the picture on that one head monk's desk at the end of the episode? It looked like he was standing with an elderly lady in the picture. She looked sort of like the lady from the ring shop in Desmond's flashback, but I couldn't tell, it was so fast. Anyone have it Tivoed?
Man...I'm glad Desmond DIDN'T learn the value of sacrifice.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Me too. I was really worried that Charlie would die. I liked this episode though. I love Desmond (not only because of his accent. I have a thing for Scottish men, hence why I'm going to Scotland for a semester. But that's not the point). He's such an interesting character, and we know almost nothing about him. Plus, how many women was he actually engaged to? I really just can't keep up with his many women.
Also, and my friend pointed this out, did any of you see the picture that was on the head monk's desk? It was a picture of him and a woman, and I do believe that said woman was the same woman who refused to sell Desmond the ring for Penny. Discuss
I still think that Juliet isn't all that bad. Her face when she told Jack that Ben would let her go home was too convincing for me. She's just trying to save her own skin, and Ben is forcing her to do something that she doesn't entirely agree with. But if it will get her off the island, I think she'll do anything to see her sister and nephew again.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Obviously not Penny, since they said her name like fifty times. That must be a tv show rule. I really like Sawyer, and Kate's still annoying.
I liked the episode a lot, but still ended up feeling annoyed at most of the people in the show. Posted by RackhamsRazor (Member # 5254) on :
Ardil 22 is Catch 22 in Portuguese from what I can gather. I read on one website that apparently the men working for Penny at the end of season 2 were Portuguese.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Evie, were you replying to me or pfresh? cause I think you missed the part where I mention the picture!
RR, I had assumed that whoever *was* really in the chopper was someone Penny sent. Otherwise why would they have Desmond's picture?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
And didn't the woman say "Desmond?" It sounded like she did. So it looks like she was looking for him. I could have misheard though.
I did see the woman in the picture, but for some reason my brain didn't connect her to the one from the ring shop. Interesting if that is the connection.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gecko: They need to get Desmond back into the plot, he's my favorite character, brotha
Ask and you shall receive...
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
All I can think of when I hear a Scottish accent is Groundskeeper Willie.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
I heard her say Desmond too. By the look on his face, was there some recognition there or no?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Any episode with Hurley in it is a good episode.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
Sawyer killed me with his one liners on this ep. The "favorite others" joke really made me laugh.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
What if Kate gets pregnant with Sawyers baby?? I didn't see any condoms on that island.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
And if Kate gets pregnant, will she befall the same fate as the other women who get pregnant on the island?
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
It looks like next week Sun's going to ask those same questions about herself.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: All I can think of when I hear a Scottish accent is Groundskeeper Willie.
And it almost succeeds in making him hot.
I like Desmond, and not just for the accent. Though, one of these days I'm going to duct tape a Scotsman to my wall and make him talk whenever I want...
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Sorry Strider, I didn't see your post.
And yes, the woman definitely said Desmond and was reading Catch-22.
I don't think we have to worry about Kate getting pregnant. That storyline has already been used. It would just be redundant
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Evie3217: I don't think we have to worry about Kate getting pregnant. That storyline has already been used. It would just be redundant
If that really worked I would think that all pregnancies in real life would be planned Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
quote:Originally posted by brojack17: Sawyer killed me with his one liners on this ep. The "favorite others" joke really made me laugh.
How did it go? "What, are you two arguing over who's your favorite other?"
Laughed for days over that. Sawyer is the best,
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:Laughed for days over that
Hasn't only one day passed since the episode aired? Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leonide:
quote:Laughed for days over that
Hasn't only one day passed since the episode aired?
Maybe Resh is experiencing Desmond-esque flashes into the future. He actually saw the one liner last week, but couldn't tell anyone about it until the episode aired for fear it would change the dialogue.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: And if Kate gets pregnant, will she befall the same fate as the other women who get pregnant on the island?
Considering that the first three seasons have only covered what 90 days or less, even if Kate does get pregnant she/we won't likely know about it until well into the 5th season of the show.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
awesome.
Even though I wasn't surprised at all that Locke's dad was the real Sawyer, I still enjoyed every minute of it.
Here are some interesting thoughts, which I will preface by saying I don't really think I believe them, but it's a theory. So after last week's episode I jokingly made up a theory that the chick who parachuted out of the helicopter was a plant by the others. I thought it was a bit of stretch how far away the helicopter seemed when it crashed in relation to how far she parachuted. So to explain it I said that she must be a plant.
Okay, anyway, I didn't believe it at all till this episode where Sayid becomes instantly suspicious(it's in his nature, i know). And then at the end, Juliette wants to let Kate in on whatever secret Jack and her have between them. So what is it? Has Juliette told Jack everything about Ben's plan? Do they have a plan for when the Others come? My question is, why right then did Juliette decide they needed to tell Kate whatever it is they know? Is it because they know that this new chick is a plant? Or simply because Kate is trusting Jack and Juliette wants to trust Kate with their knowledge at the same time. Like I said, I'm not backing this theory, but it was on my mind. She obviously knows all this information about Penny and Desmond, and has his picture and all of it makes sense with what we know is going on off the island.
Some other thoughts.
What is Rousseau getting dynamite for?
How DID they get Locke's dad to the island? Did they orchestrate his accident, drug him, and transport him to the island? How did the transportation occur? How are they communicating with the outside world? They've been throwing out these hints that they're dead, which I don't buy at all. But then who set up a bogus plane with bogus bodies? and how?
Also, if they got Locke's dad to the island without a submarine, in record time, how are they REALLY transporting people to the island? Was the submarine a big sham set up to trick people into thinking that they were getting to the island by natural means. And that's why they drug everyone and tell them they're doing it because it's "going to be bumpy" or whatever it is they said. And there really is some crazy supernatural explanation for it.
Going back to last week. How is the Russian still alive? When Naomi said she wasn't alone did she mean the place where she took off from in the helicopter? And who is the Russian going to tell that information to and what are they going to do with it?
Next week's preview looked pretty awesome. I'm thinking we learn a lot of specifics about Dharma and The Others if Ben really does show Locke some major secrets about the island. I was also told whose episode is next week.
SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . . It's a Ben flashback! . . . . . . . . . . So yeah, it should be pretty awesome. I like the way they did Locke's episode with flashbacks only from the Island.
[ May 03, 2007, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
oh...when do we find out more about this Jacob character?
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
how about keeping it simple.
The writers don't know what they're going to come up with amymore than you can suggest. It's all guess work with the audience and the writers.
I'm just waiting for Kate to be pregnant now. I just expect it. (Maybe it will make Jack more interesting. So far he bores an annoys me.)
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
Oh, oh goodness, I watched last week's episode late, and then with the forum down I got confused and read this thread thinking the new discussion would be about last week's episode. I got halfway through Strider's post before I figured it out.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I thought Locke's father (Kevin Tighe) had a telling line:"last week I was driving along on the freeway, and now I'm locked in the brig of a pirate ship in the middle of a jungle. Isn't it obvious where we are?" Hell, as he says later.
And it was bizarre that a plane and bodies were found elsewhere. So not only are they off the plane's course, nobody but Penny is looking for them anyway because everyone thinks they're dead. Or maybe they are, and are in Limbo, or Hell. Although I think the producers ruled that out last year.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: oh...when do we find out more about this Jacob character?
Jacob is the great-great-grandson of Milos Rambaldi.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
So can we start refering to Juilette as "Undercover Other"?
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
The only people they've heard the plane crash theory from are helicopter girl and Locke's father. If the helicopter girl is a plant, she could very well be lying. Locke's father could be as well. The father seems like the king of guy who would willing say something like that just to mess with their heads.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I just think the whole "this is Hell" thing is just a way to misdirect people. I mean it could explain how some of the people got there (the people who crashed, Locke's father, etc.), but it doesn't explain how some people go back and forth between the real world and the island. It also doesn't explain how the DHARMA Initiative could set up labs and teams there and all. I mean how does one go about setting up labs in Hell? It just seems like it's an attempt to mislead people. I'm looking forward to next week though. In the preview I saw a sign that said "Namaste. DHARMA Initiative" as well as a black screen that said "Roger Work Man" (whatever that means). It should be interesting though.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: Next week's preview looked pretty awesome. I'm thinking we learn a lot of specifics about Dharma and The Others if Ben really does show Locke some major secrets about the island. I was also told whose episode is next week.
Don't bet on getting many specifics. The writers thrive on slowly dragging out the solid facts.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I misspoke by calling Tighe's quote "telling"--I don't believe they are in Hell or Limbo.
I'm trying not to get sucked into Lost too much, but it is a fascinating show and mystery.
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: So can we start refering to Juilette as "Undercover Other"?
...midnight fantasy...
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I have a bad feeling that, as The Guy Who Makes Everyone Feel Okay, Hurley is in for a bad end at some indeterminate point in the future when one of the writers needs to make the point that Things Have Gotten Really Bad Now.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
The show would be much less watchable without Hurly. And think of the quotes we'd lose!
Hurly mustn't die. Do you hear me, writers? Oh, and dude, you've got some Arnst on you.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I vote for them to bring Michael back and kill him.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I can see Hurley's death scene now: "Dude, where's my spleen?"
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Once Locke's Dad showed himself to be a thorough conman (rather than a jerk that just needed a kidney), it wasn't a far stretch to imagine that he was the Real Sawyer.
Naomi said that plane had crashed off the coast of Bali. That means the plane was flying in the opposite direction it should have been going when it crashed. I think that it is either a dummy plane or that Naomi and Locke's Dad are lying, which is more believable.
pfresh85, "Roger Work Man" was on the nametag of the corpse in the Hippy Van. I hope we see more of that van.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Ah, thanks for pointing that out for me, The Reader. I remembered the name from somewhere, but I couldn't place it. Now I can vividly see it though. Thanks. Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
You're welcome. Somehow, that VW van is going to become a major plotline. Lost has a way of doing that.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
OK, far fetched idea: What if they're all in a group lucid dream/coma. Nice science experiment eh? heh
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:pfresh85, "Roger Work Man" was on the nametag of the corpse in the Hippy Van. I hope we see more of that van.
if you payed attention during the preview for next week you'd know we'd be seeing more VW vans in general!
I had found a website that had still shots of next week's preview, but I can't seem to find it anymore.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I stilol think the van episodw had more to do with it than they want us to think.
"Dharma" is "the way," the correct way to live while on earth.
At the end of that episode, the song "On the Road to Shambhala"(Shangrila), which is a place everyone is looking for, and no one ever finds. At least, those who go searching for it never return. Once you are in, you can;t get out. (says the legend)There are many side legends attached to the legend.
Maybe the point is more that the island is heaven, but that heaven is really a lot like, well, hell.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: Once Locke's Dad showed himself to be a thorough conman (rather than a jerk that just needed a kidney), it wasn't a far stretch to imagine that he was the Real Sawyer.
It wasn't just that. Ford/Sawyer pulled the same exact con that Cooper/Sawyer pulled. And the whole, "Oops, you weren't supposed to see that", which was an integral part of that con, was exactly what Cooper said to Locke when he "accidentally" hadn't finished his dialysis that time when Locke came to visit.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
I don't think they, (the writers), can kill Hurley ... it would remove a large audience base. That would be like killing Sawyer or Jack, (Although, I think they could kill Jack off and not a lose anything. Yet, I'm the minority on that character.)
Bringing back removed or dead people ... that would continue the mystery. I vote for the latter.
However, I WILL not invest emotional energy into any scenario on a television show. Again, ... the writers don't have a clue as to what they're going to do next and to inject some logical story line, (a plan), into this is illogical.
Just enjoy the journey!
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: Once Locke's Dad showed himself to be a thorough conman (rather than a jerk that just needed a kidney), it wasn't a far stretch to imagine that he was the Real Sawyer.
It wasn't just that. Ford/Sawyer pulled the same exact con that Cooper/Sawyer pulled. And the whole, "Oops, you weren't supposed to see that", which was an integral part of that con, was exactly what Cooper said to Locke when he "accidentally" hadn't finished his dialysis that time when Locke came to visit.
Cons are too complicated for me to wrap my head around. That makes enough sense for me to believe.
Originally posted by Roseauthor
quote:I don't think they, (the writers), can kill Hurley ... it would remove a large audience base. That would be like killing Sawyer or Jack, (Although, I think they could kill Jack off and not a lose anything. Yet, I'm the minority on that character.)
Bringing back removed or dead people ... that would continue the mystery. I vote for the latter.
However, I WILL not invest emotional energy into any scenario on a television show. Again, ... the writers don't have a clue as to what they're going to do next and to inject some logical story line, (a plan), into this is illogical.
I used to think that the writers didn't know where they were going, but now I do. I have looked back among the current season and so many of the points make sense, in the Lost world anyway. I have smacked my forehead in a "well, duh" moment many times this season when something occured that should have been obvious to me earlier. This may also happen because I don't pay enough attention.
Rather than each episode containing three acts, each season seems to be arranged into acts, with an episode introducing one or more new points without resolving old ones, and some are never finished. This arrangement always keeps a mystery going. This process has flopped badly. The second season didn't live up to what was expected, even though it was still one the better shows on TV, IMHO. Season 2 provoked a "what the heck?" sensation because the writers reached to far. They have salvaged the show very well though. The mysteries are meaty again, and the characters are much better.
quote:Just enjoy the journey!
We all do. Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
The creators said in EW that they were hoping to end the show by season five. So I think they do have a plan. Whether it will be personally satifying to me or you, I can't speak to that.
But I AM enjoying the journey. Lost has picked up and is once again kicking bahookie. In my book anyway. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: Again, ... the writers don't have a clue as to what they're going to do next and to inject some logical story line, (a plan), into this is illogical.
Just because you don't have a clue as to what they're going to do next doesn't mean the writers don't.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I think they have admitted as much, Lisa. (no link to prove this)
I think what is more to the point is whether or not a writer needs to know where he/she is going with a story. Many writers are surprised by where the story takes them. Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
I wish I could find the interview I saw on television! Seriously, they are creating the journey as they go. So, it's kinda like life. We don't know where our choices will lead us.
I love watching the show because it's like life.
The writers are great at not contradicting previous events. (Better than most shows.)
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
That wouldn't surprise me. A great deal of shows with a sort of mystery at play within it have essentially muddled to an unsatisfying, tacked on resolution over the years. Kind of like that old Star Trek phenomenan where the first 50 minutes would be set up, and then a five minute scene at the end would resolve it.
I'm not sure they know where it's going, and as another poster said, quite a few writers work the same way, discovering the ending as the writing takes them to it, while others outline and frame every bit of it out. I have a feeling they have some core ideas, but not a clear fundamental set up working. One thing I've been wondering a lot is if it's working on that "Sliders" kind of level, with alternate earths/universes. The whole Hell, heaven, limbo arguments have gotten the kibosh from the writers since it premiered so I have a feeling there is a stronger fundamental idea working with a fantastical twist based on science (although probably ridiculous and obviously illogical interpretations of science). I reach for the whole scientific twist mainly because they are really working on electromagnetism, that somehow the island is missing and can't be found/seen etc, and I am simply wondering if the idea is that two separate earths from separate universes might have somehow been connected? Is it a space/time thing? What is it? Not sure, but I don't think it's a spiritual, heaven/hell angle beyond the island being special. I don't perceive it to be spiritual beyond that.
Rambling with bizarre ideas I know, but the way they are setting things up just makes me wonder if they've got scientists working like "Numbers" has mathematicians, to just throw out bizarre ideas in the field of physics/astrophysics etc. Just throwing that out there.
The whole "we found the plane, you're dead" angle got me thinking along those lines. I just think "somebody faked what happened to you" is plausible but not nearly as interesting as other ideas would be, though I wouldn't put it past Ben and his people to come up with something like that, I don't see how he could, and how it would be feasible either.
Anyway, like the others, I really think it's taken a turn for the better. Obviously the clowns from ABC were utter fools to put it in hiatus, that essentially insured they'd lose a portion of their audience, and a portion of people just starting to buy in after maybe catching up on dvd's, however the second half of season 3 certainly has come through nicely after a mixed bag in season 2 and a horrid start to 3. I read in tv guide that it will start next january and go uninterrupted a la 24. Smart move. I also am skeptical of a wrap up after 5. They'll run into problems like Magnum had, people getting island fever and getting tired of working there, but I think if it builds off of this half season and into next year, ABC will not want to lose it. It all depends on how things go for the next 18 months or so.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
GrayWolf, exactly!
I don't see it going to a finality in season 5. Remember, TV is all about commercial appeal. Advertisers, (money) pay for programming. This is a s successful program. Everyone wins.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
According to this article, Lost has a definitive end point: 2010
Quite surprising that. Money usually changes everything. Will be interesting to see if that holds up.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
This is perfect! I don't like the long wait between seasons but this way they can lay down a 48 episode roadmap that will take us from here to the end.
Plus, well, after 6 years all the people will have aged 6 years instead of the 6 months or so they should age (It's the third season and they've been on the island 3 months) If the show kept going it would start to get ridiculous. (ie: Angel. He's a vampire. He never ages. He played that part 8 years. He aged.)
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
Well Lost could always do the Battlestar Gallactica trick and skip a year, or 3.
If they don't, I don't see how they can possibly bring Michael and Walt back. Walt's aging will be very noticeable.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
It's fairly comforting knowing when the show will end.
Sun is going to be dying at about the same time the show ends. I wonder how that will play out...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
How can you possibly know that? The first and second seasons weren't the same length, so what basis can you have for knowing how much island-time will pass by then?
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: It's fairly comforting knowing when the show will end.
Sun is going to be dying at about the same time the show ends. I wonder how that will play out...
Seasons one and two lasted around forty days each. Season three has been around two-three weeks. Who knows how long future seasons will last?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I can't believe I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow morning to watch Lost this week. I have to go in for a sleep study tonight. Bad timing.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Damien.m:
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: It's fairly comforting knowing when the show will end.
Sun is going to be dying at about the same time the show ends. I wonder how that will play out...
Seasons one and two lasted around forty days each. Season three has been around two-three weeks. Who knows how long future seasons will last?
I am assuming that every episode represents about a day. So, they don't?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OK, holy crapinski! Best episode ever for me, so far, and it is only half way through!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Still best episode for me after the whole shebang. Locke dead? Not. Whoa. Just...whoa.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Ben is so dark and twisted.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Agreed-Locke can't be dead. This is a man who seems to be self healing. He'll live.
I do love the fact that he finally took charge of a situation and beat the pooo out of someone. Cracked us up enough to replay the scene. (Great moments of cheer)
Ben might seem crazy, but there's a compassion that I feel for him. (I tend to like the weird people).
Where's HURLEY!?!?
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
I find it interesting that Ben's mom died during child birth. I think they said she was in her 7th month.
Now Ben is on a mystical island where women who conceive on the island always die of childbirth. I think they said in a previous episode, but I'm not sure what month they said the women die.
My own theory is that Ben is causing the deaths subconsciously. Like the island is taking Ben's pain and focusing it across the island.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Holy cow. I think I've figured out what's going on.
Have any of you ever read the book Michael and the Magic Man, by Kathleen M. Sidney? I read it when it came out, back when I was in high school, and I've read it a number of times since then.
If you've read it, picture Ben as the book's Lawrence (but with a bit of psycho mixed in), and picture Locke as a version of Michael.
Why did Richard give Locke the suggestion about getting Sawyer to help with the killing? Why did Richard and Tom just stand (sit) there while Locke beat the hell out of Mikhail? I'm betting that had Locke not been there, they would have been completely on board with Ben, and had Ben not been there, they would have done anything Locke said.
It's not the same as the book, because other people, such as Juliet, can see Richard and Tom and the rest of them as well. Unless everyone on the island is a construct, and all their flashbacks a figment of the damaged imaginations of Ben Linus and John Locke.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
How about the fact that Richard(I assume that is the dark-haired man?)has not aged?
Or the fact that Ben had issues with his pa, as have most other main characters in the story. (as mentioned above)
Interesting, Lisa. I have not read that book, but it sounds really good.
Now that you mention your book, I am reminded of The Magus, by John Fowles, which gave me a similar "thinking headache."
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
"Ooooh, look at me, I'm a writer for Lost! I'll kill anyone I damn well please!"
Locke had better live.
Could you elaborate on the parallels between Lost and that book for those of us who have not read the book?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: Interesting, Lisa. I have not read that book, but it sounds really good.
You really, really should. It's one of the most underrated, amazing books out there.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I have little doubt that Locke will live. He seems to be the miracle healing man on the island. I'm more interested in what happens when he gets back on his feet.
Did anyone catch the glimpse of Jacob in all the chaos? It looked like Locke with a wig on. If you didn't see it, Lostpedia has an image up, I believe.
EDIT: Link to image Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: "Ooooh, look at me, I'm a writer for Lost! I'll kill anyone I damn well please!"
Locke had better live.
Could you elaborate on the parallels between Lost and that book for those of us who have not read the book?
Um... I really hate to. It's such a great book, and I've already come close to spoiling it.
Then again, it's 27 years out of print, so what are the odds of anyone here actually reading it?
I've posted it in a separate thread with a spoiler warning (link).
[ May 10, 2007, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Lisa ]
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
They also never showed Locke die.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Lisa, have you read The Magus?
I am going to search for that book.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I haven't. Maybe I'll look for it.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Most of this story seems to fall victim to books I read 20 years ago. I'm not inflicting or projecting those story lines onto this story.
Again, I'm just enjoying the journey because ... so far, nothing in previous writings has followed through.
I'll stick with my original theory that they're all in a coma. It makes it easier to just enjoy the show without over thinking it.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I have some sympathy for Ben now, but he is still an utter psychopath. I wouldn't put it past him to find a way to trap Jacob and control The Island.
Locke can't die. The Island, or Jacob, needs him to be something other than another Great Citizen of The Island. That's why Ben wants Locke dead. Ben can't lose control and risk having the mysteries known to everyone.
Juliet may have a coalition larger than Ben suspects. His control has tightened quite a bit lately. This may be because they have been driven away from their homes and their communication with the outside world has been ended. The elusiveness, cunning, and few successful attacks by the castaways have shown how weak his tyranny is. It's possible that Juliet's message of fair rule has been accepted by more than a few people.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I certainly hope that the viewers who left in droves earlier on will return before the season's through. While Season 3 floundered badly, the past few episodes have been wonderful. Tightly written, suspensful, things actually happen, secrets are revealed.
I guess that "There will only be 48 more episodes" deal was the kick the writers needed to move the story and characters forward.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Growing from its lead-in by 7.7 million viewers (12.1 million vs. 4.4 million) and by 163% in young adults (5.0/13 vs. 1.9/5), "Lost" won its Wednesday time period and was No. 1 scripted-program of the night across the adult demographics: Adults 18-34 (4.3/13), Adults 18-49 (5.0/13) and Adults 25-54 (5.6/14). In fact the ABC drama has won its hour in the key Adult 18-49 sales demographic on all 14 telecasts since entering its new time slot.
Despite its late time period and declining TV usage levels, "Lost" grew by 1.0 million viewers (11.6 million to 12.6 million) and by 11% among young adults (4.7/12 to 5.2/15) from its first half-hour to its second half-hour.
"Lost" improved the hour for ABC over the same night last year by 4.5 million viewers and 67% in Adults 18-49 (7.7 million & 3.0/8 on 5/10/06).
I prefer the edgier, late-night Lost, but if the writers can use the mix of family entertainment and darkness that worked in Season 1, and the current thickness of mystery, the show should be fine for the final 48 episodes.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
At least the last episode was more informative! The main reason I was going to discard this show was the lack of information and over addition of characters without character building. I didn't really care for most of the new characters like I did in season 1.
2. I didn't like the lack of information and just misleading the observer with mundane information.
3. EXTREME drawing out scenes, over commercializations with absolutely NO reward for my loyalty in viewing.
4. Not redressing the damn polar bear! or the smoke or the 'black cloud' in the forest that was killing people..
I'm still not sure the producers still have my interest. Too many absurdities. But the hubby loves it! I'll have a beer and watch again! heh
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Roseauthor, 2 and 3 I agree with, but:
4. The Others mentioned that they did some work on the polar bears earlier this season. That's what the cages were for. The Black Cloud, monster, or whatever, is possibly the security system used by DHARMA. What it's made of is still a mystery.
I love the absudities and mystery. Lost is like a crazy conspiracy theory, but can be safely explored because it is entirely fiction and fun.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Rumor has it that after the season finale, we're going to spend the entire summer wondering how the show can even continue in the fall.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: At least the last episode was more informative! The main reason I was going to discard this show was the lack of information and over addition of characters without character building. I didn't really care for most of the new characters like I did in season 1.
2. I didn't like the lack of information and just misleading the observer with mundane information.
3. EXTREME drawing out scenes, over commercializations with absolutely NO reward for my loyalty in viewing.
4. Not redressing the damn polar bear! or the smoke or the 'black cloud' in the forest that was killing people..
I'm still not sure the producers still have my interest. Too many absurdities. But the hubby loves it! I'll have a beer and watch again! heh
I don't get how you can just ignore the vast number of reveals we got this season. Your post sounds like you wrote it at the end of last season.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I kind of hope Locke lives just so he can continue to be a pain in the butt to the Others rather than the crash survivors.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Sterling
Locke is kind of like John McClaine in that respect.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Leaving a ring that size in a baby's cradle is irresponsible. Choking hazard.
It was interesting... this was the first time since the show started that I was able to look at Claire without feeling a grudge against her for what Tess did in Roswell.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Hmm....my theories for the show:
1. Locke is not dead. There are too many questions about his connection with the island left unanswered and so there's no way he's dead. Jacob will have something to do with it.
2. It just seems too predictable that Charlie will die. And after the end of tonight's episode, it seems even less likely that they're going to kill him off. Because now there's an even bigger question that needs to be answered. If they kill off Charlie, then we'll never know about the newest station (I forget the name). I think all of Desmond's visions were in order to fulfill some greater purpose, but not Charlie's death.
3. The island is really all about Desmond. It's all some kind of mental construction of his. I don't know how, but that's what I think.
4. Jacob is really part of Locke's psyche.
But I believe #2 more than all the others. If they kill Charlie, that would just be predictable. And we all know that, if there's one thing that this show is, it's unpredictable. So there's no way they're actually going to let Charlie die after all this hype. We have seen it coming, and what's the fun of that?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Evie, the new station is called the Looking Glass.
I think I'd agree with you on #1 and #2. Both stories still have too much left to them to end them now. As for the other two, I don't know about them. #3 is an interesting idea, but I just doubt it. #4 is a possibility (what with Jacob looking like Locke in a wig), but I think there's more to Jacob than just that.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I have some interesting ideas about last week's episode.
So the island has this weird electro-magnetic thing going right? And the shack that Ben takes Locke to was surrounded by some sort of sand or dirt or whatever that was, which acts as some sort of barrier/protection which the power can't pass through. And Ben tells Locke that Jacob hates technology so there is nothing that produces any power. I think Ben has somehow captured part of the island, some of its essence. And that's why things start to go crazy when Locke flips on the flashlight. Jacob(or whatever) feeds off the energy from the flashlight and is able to use some of his(the island's power). That's why he says help me. At the beginning of all the shaking, before the image of a person is in the chair you see the chair empty rocking slightly. If you look closely there's black smoke in the chair, rocking with it.
Now some other ideas, that may be related to this. Ben may very well be crazy. He really doesn't know(or didn't) anything about the Island and made it all up. Jacob is some sort of imaginary creation of his. But maybe has somehow taken on it's own life, manifested, in the island, or whatever part of it Ben has captured. I mean, Ben is definitely deranged.
I think the fact that all the women on the island die during their 7th month of pregnancy totally lends credence to at least some of this, explaining why Ben would have so much power or influence over events on the island.
Richard still needs explaining. Who were he and the other "natives"? Where did they come from and what do they know?
I thought this week's episode was pretty cool. It was obviously a set up episode for the finale, but still managed to be interesting and engaging. I don't think they'll kill Charlie. You're right, after all the build up and expectation, it'd almost be anticlimactic to see him go. And I don't think Locke is really dead either. But then who's left to kill? They're going to kill somebody right? Maybe more than one. Sayid? Sawyer? Would they kill Jack? Juliette? Hurley would be a big shocker. I can see Bernard going.
Who are the people in the Looking Glass? What was the station built for? What's the signifcance of the name? If Charlie's gone through the looking glass will our perception about the reality of the island change this final episode?
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Lisa, I have actually have the DVD's of all but this episode. We'll order the last episode for summer "Lost Games," (something we and our friends do).
I'll stick with our opinions and our conclusions. But thank you for your opinion.
Again, the last few episodes have given us more data and ties in with previous episodes.
We'll see how it goes on Wednesday! I still think this is one of the best.. if not THE best show I've watched in a long time!
We're (hubby and our friends) are looking for the next season to be on DVD to add to our game.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I think if the underwater hatch-dealio had played out the way Desmond foretold, Charlie would have had a cool death, and I wouldn't have been bothered by the fore-knowledge. The twist of either Desmond not knowing about the people there, or Desmond LYING about the people there, is cool. Even if anti-climactic.
If the writers say viewers will be wondering how the show can even CONTINUE after next week's finale, then I like the idea of MASSIVE deaths. On a grand scale. Or maybe time will reverse and they'll go back to the beginning, where the plane has just crashed, and a few of them remember the last three months, but the rest don't. Or only one person does. Or NO ONE does, but different events happen and different alliances are made, different people die, etc. Or maybe they're all rescued, or most are, and people will wonder how the show can work if they're not Lost anymore. Or something tricksy like that. Not that i have anything to back up any of those guesses. Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
Whatever the case, Desmond is going to come to on the boat, Charlie won't be there, he'll think his vision has happened and he'll go back to the island telling everyone that Charlie is dead. So whether Charlie dies or not, everyone will think he's dead and he could be trapped for a long time because nobody will be looking for him.
This episode had the highest jeopardy threshold in Lost history IMO. Charlie facing what he believes to be his death for Claire was very gripping.
I'm anxious to learn of Locke's fate, what Jacob really is, Alex's past and Ben's psyche. I'm sure none of this will happen next week. I'm also really confused about why Richard does not age and who the "hostiles" were to begin with.
I do trust Juliet now though.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
Oh, and I find it very difficult to believe that any of the characters are just constructs of any other character's psyches. I don't buy it. Too much happens on individual levels for that to be true.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Who are you responding to with your last post?
Also, re: Desmond...from the previews for next week it looked like Desmond was going inside the hatch with Charlie.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: (what with Jacob looking like Locke in a wig)
Um... I don't think so. Link Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
No one's said anything about my theory. I thought it was pretty cool.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I think The Looking Glass is where the submarine docks. This is the place people really come to and leave the island, however it's done. It may be called The Looking Glass for two reasons: it is another communications outpost, and visitors' ideas about where they are going to and from are changed.
It was a big place, too, obviously meant to be permantly manned. And it wasn't flooded, so Ben is lying to everyone, even the people he trusts the most, including Juliet. There is something very big here.
The new location is a metaphor too. We, the viewers and fans will have our ideas about the Island and the show changed.
I don't trust Juliet. I think what she is doing is part of a bigger plan set by Ben. She may still betray him. She wants off the Island, and doesn't care how she leaves.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Sorry, Strider. I didn't see the episode before last night's, so i can't comment with any real knowledge.
I'm a bad Lostie Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Weird random thought:
Two people have destroyed stations: Desmond and Locke. Charlie, I suspect, is going to do the same (I think that switch does more than just turn the jamming signal off.)
Desmond has been shown to survive through incredibly unlikely circumstances; Locke may be about to do the same...
Other speculation: The people who intercepted Charlie at Looking Glass are Dharma remnants, possibly the only ones left on the island; the jamming signal was not started by Ben or the Others, but to prevent Ben's submarine from docking with them and finishing them off.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I was thinking that about Charlie too. Maybe something similar to what happened to Desmond will happen to Charlie and Locke. A new "sense" maybe.
The stations on the island have a habit of being cataclysmically disabled. In addition to Swan and Flame having been exploded, Arrow appeared burned, and Hydra had been flooded before The Others somewhat fixed it.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
The Reader, I think you're on to something. The title is obviously a reference to Alice in Wonderland - Through the Looking Glass. In that book she goes through a mirror into Wonderland. The looking glass is the portal. That would make sense. Plus, the submarine has to at least be relatively functional. Otherwise the people on the island would know that the submarine never moved when new people came on board. That wouldn't make sense.
I still think that Ben has way more power than anyone else. Strider, I think your post could be true. At least there's something weird going on between the line of sand around Jacob's house and the fact that he only started freaking out when Locke turned on the flashlight. Maybe he's being held prisoner, but I'm not sure that's the entire story. I think it has more to do with something spiritual that we don't understand about the island. But Ben certainly gets most of his power from Jacob and uses it to his own advantage. I'm almost certain that, no matter what Jacob said to Ben, it was NOT to move the raid up by a day. We already know that Ben disobeys orders because he tried to kill Locke. But seriously, how many action flicks do people need to watch in order to get that you don't just leave the good guy to die in the middle of a forest? You actually have to KILL the good guy. Geeze! That guy really needs to watch more action movies. That's what I think.
Edit to add: I think Bernard's going to bite it. It's the only reason I can think of to bring him back to the show with only 2 episodes left. Who are the other two shooting? Sayid and Jin? They can't die. Sayid's too awesome and there's way too much still left to learn about Jin. But in the preview they had the three of them lined up on the beach on their knees. One of them has to die, at least. So I'm predicting that Bernard dies. Possibly even Rose because she will have hid behind to be with her husband. That's what I think.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Evie, I have an intuition that Bernard's time has come too. His wife begged him not to stay behind and shoot the dynamite? He's toast.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: Two people have destroyed stations: Desmond and Locke.
What did Desmond destroy? As far as I can tell, Locke has destroyed two stations. The Hatch and Mikhail's place. Not to mention the submarine. For a relatively ineffectual guy who needed Sawyer to do his stuff for him, Locke is honestly a menace. I like him a lot.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Didn't desmond turn the key that destroyed the hatch? You know, after the computer got smashed...
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Didn't desmond turn the key that destroyed the hatch? You know, after the computer got smashed...
Sure, but it was Locke who let the computer run down to nothing, forcing Desmond to do that to save their lives.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I also think Bernard is going to die, but I think he'll die as a hero, possibly protecting Rose, or Claire and Aaron.
Evie3217, I think Jacob may have told Ben to cool it, or he'll do something bad to Ben. This of course doesn't go very well with Ben. Assuming Ben has Jacob trapped, or if Jacob is imprisoned by his own volition, Ben can disobey Jacob, as you said, and make a last stand to both remove the castaways and take complete control of the island.
The "something bad to Ben" could be that Jacob no longer trusts Ben, and wants to remove him. After all, if Jacob really is trapped in that shack, then he would have had to had complete trust in Ben some time in the past in order to control the island. If he no longer trusts Ben, then he would need to let someone else know. That someone else is Locke, who could also be the new leadership desired by Jacob. Thus, Ben attempted to kill his rival to the throne.
In order to get Ben to bring Locke to the shack, Jacob would have had to lie to Ben about his motives. If Jacob finally told the truth to Ben when Ben brought Locke to the shack, then Ben would have been both betrayed and would have had his belief confirmed that Jacob should not be controlling the island. This is possibly why Jacob said "Help me" to Locke.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
It certainly looked like allowing the count to pass zero was heading towards something cataclysmic, but it was Desmond who actually turned the key that caused the hatch to implode, much like it was Locke who made the entry in the program that set off the C4.
I'm thinking of the people who pulled the trigger, so to speak.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
It's possible that Bernard will die as a hero, but I don't think he's the only one who's going to die. I also have a sinking suspicion that Nikki and Paulo are going to turn up again, in some weird fashion. It would seem like the opportune time for them to reappear.
TheReader, your post kind of confuses me, although, from what I understand, I think you may be on to something. It's definitely likely that Jacob wanted Locke to take over for Ben, in charge of the others. And Lock can be a pretty powerful guy when he decides to be.
Personally, I think it was Desmond who actually pulled the trigger in the Hatch. But that's just what I think. But I do think that Desmond has a larger part to play in this matter than we all think. I'm really interested to see more about how he's connected to the island. I think he's somewhat like Locke, in that sense, although maybe to a smaller degree.
Also, what is your take on Richard Alpert (the Other from Ben's flashback)? Why hasn't he aged. I personally have no clue, but there must be a good story about that. And why have we not seen him before?
About next week's episode, I've heard that it's going to change the way we think about everything. According to Entertainment Weekly, the Lost creators have said, "only an extremely deranged individual would think of doing what we're doing." All I can say is, I'm excited.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Sorry I confused you. I was writing by stream of consiousness. It doesn't explain the nature of Jacob though. Is he supernatural, or is there a natural occurence that keeps him hidden and trapped?
Even though Locke destroyed the computer, Desmond was the only one who could stop the anamoly with the failsafe, because, AFAIK, he was the only person alive who knew about the failsafe.
I have no idea what to think of Richard. Maybe his lack of aging is just a plothole (or he dyes his hair), though I doubt that.
"Only an extremely deranged individual would think of doing what we're doing." Maybe The Others and The Castaways join together and overthrow Jacob. Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island. Lost's creators have a way of overstating the plot. But because this is a season finale, something big will happen.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I have no idea what to think of Richard. Maybe his lack of aging is just a plothole (or he dyes his hair), though I doubt that."
Well, he seemed to come out of the jungle, and I thought he was a rep from a renegade group on the island who chose Ben to overthrow Dharma.I am orbably stating th obvious, as I have missed many pieces to this puzzle.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island
This is exactly what I was thinking the other day - that immediately after Charlie reveals the island to the world, they destroy it. Or it is possible that the station already has a device capable of destroying the island, and the people who captured Charlie are going to set it off.
I think it is also possible that Jacob intends to destroy the island (possibly because he now disagrees with what Ben is doing to it), and has recently made that intention known to Ben. That is why he has manipulated things to bring our heroes to the island (so they will destroy it), and that is what he meant when he told Locke to "help him". And that would explain why Ben got so upset upon hearing that Jacob asked Locke to help him - and why they would have induced him to hurry up his plan to kill the Losties. Ben would have realized Jacob plans to have the Losties ruin everything, so he is rushing to eliminate them before they can.
Season 4 could then be entirely flashbacks to the characters who are currently unexplained - What happened to Michael? What are Jacob's origins? Does Jacob save Locke? How did Ben meet Jacob?
I would also still like to know the significance of the original Hatch. What was that electromagnetic explosion all about? What was the button? That was all mostly left unanswered after the last season. Will these questions just be dropped or will they eventually get answered? My suspicion is that the decision to not push the button has, one way or another, put into motion a series of events that is either bringing about the end of the island, the end of the world, or something else rather cataclismic.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Other random speculation: Maybe Jacob's backstory is that he is the last child to be conceived and born on the island. Like the other babies, he killed his mother in the process, but somehow he survived and was born. Perhaps every baby conceived on the island gets powers like Jacob's. That would explain why all the mothers' bodies reject their babies - because the babies become something beyond human. It would also explain... (1) Why Jacob was drawn to Ben - because Ben too killed his mother by being born (2) Why Ben seems so certain it is possible for a baby to be born on the island, even though it fails every time - because Jacob is proof that it can happen (3) Why the Others are so intent on having such a baby - because the child would be something beyond human, like Jacob. It seems that the Others are interested in people with strange magical gifts. Maybe their goal is to create a community of superhumans, with powers like Jacob has.
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
Wasn't Richard the one who did the project presentation to get Juliet to come to the island?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Wasn't Richard the one who did the project presentation to get Juliet to come to the island?
As far as I remember, yes.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Hmm. What if one of the people in the Looking Glass is Ben's childhood friend? I think they will probably get around to telling us what happened to her next season, anyway.
Oh, freaky aside:
Paulo was played by the same guy who played Xerxes .
O_O
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
So, not only has Richard not aged, but he has been off the island at least once in the last 3 years (that is how long Juliet has been on the island, right?).
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
holy crap Olivet! that is freaky.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:Or maybe Naomi's rescue ship nukes the island
This is exactly what I was thinking the other day - that immediately after Charlie reveals the island to the world, they destroy it. Or it is possible that the station already has a device capable of destroying the island, and the people who captured Charlie are going to set it off.
I think it is also possible that Jacob intends to destroy the island (possibly because he now disagrees with what Ben is doing to it), and has recently made that intention known to Ben. That is why he has manipulated things to bring our heroes to the island (so they will destroy it), and that is what he meant when he told Locke to "help him". And that would explain why Ben got so upset upon hearing that Jacob asked Locke to help him - and why they would have induced him to hurry up his plan to kill the Losties. Ben would have realized Jacob plans to have the Losties ruin everything, so he is rushing to eliminate them before they can.
Season 4 could then be entirely flashbacks to the characters who are currently unexplained - What happened to Michael? What are Jacob's origins? Does Jacob save Locke? How did Ben meet Jacob?
I would also still like to know the significance of the original Hatch. What was that electromagnetic explosion all about? What was the button? That was all mostly left unanswered after the last season. Will these questions just be dropped or will they eventually get answered? My suspicion is that the decision to not push the button has, one way or another, put into motion a series of events that is either bringing about the end of the island, the end of the world, or something else rather cataclismic.
Wow, I was just joking (there's nothing funnier than a nuclear explosion), but because you explain it, that seems just as possible.
However, what would Jacob gain by destroying the island? I don't believe he is a selfless Christ-like character who would die to prevent greater destruction. He seems more like a shrewd manager who is willing to let a few people die (like Juliet and Karl), except for himself of course, in order to protect the island.
Even is Ben is taking control of the island, Jacob had to be ruthless before that, in order to keep the place a secret. And I doubt The others want to die, but they probably don't know about the plan, if it exists.
If season 4 were entirely flashbacks, people would stop watching. Who cares about dead people on TV? And how can flashbacks be the entire content of the series for the next three seasons?
It's hard to imagine what could happen that we would consider the Lost creators seriously deranged. I wish Wednesday would get here.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke? It's one thing to finance a massive SAR mission, but a nuke is a whole other ballpark.
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: If season 4 were entirely flashbacks, people would stop watching. Who cares about dead people on TV? And how can flashbacks be the entire content of the series for the next three seasons?
It's hard to imagine what could happen that we would consider the Lost creators seriously deranged. I wish Wednesday would get here. [/QB]
They won't kill everybody or destroy the island, that doesn't make any sense. But the whole "deranged" comment is very intriguing, as so much of the plot has been so surreal and whacked already.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I also read in the same article (I wish I had a link to it) that the exec producers are going to cut back on the number of flashbacks in coming seasons. Personally, I think the nuke idea is completely ridiculous, for reasons that TheReader explained.
The idea about the superhuman is possible, I suppose, but I feel like there's more to this show than just creating another superman. To me, there's something bigger going on that we don't know about yet.
I do agree, however, that one of the people in the Looking Glass is going to be Annie, Ben's childhood sweetheart. There's no other reason why they would put a flashback about her in there if it wasn't going to come back later.
As for Richard, I think his lack of aging is one that isn't going to be explained for a long time. But he was the one who was at Juliet's interview, and he was the one who talked to young Ben in the jungle, and I believe he was the one who filmed Juliet's sister, cancer free, when Juliet asked for it. So I think it's something about Richard, and not necessarily the island, that makes him special. Because otherwise where are all the other people who helped Ben and Richard overthrow the Darhma Initiative? My only question is, why is Richard following Ben? Is it because Ben is "favored" by Jacob? It's obvious by the fact that Richard gave Locke Sawyer's file that he doesn't approve with how Ben is handling things. Why doesn't he take it into his own hands?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Well, the hints are that there is some twist that will change the way we look at the show, that it will leave us wondering how the show can go on next season, and that only a "derranged" person would think of it. Given these, how about these other possibilities:
-Locke meets Jacob again, and Jacob is revealed to be Jack. It turns out the whole island is in his head, and he is subconsciously making everything happen. Jacob is an alter ego. (But then again, that would really be just the old "it's all a dream" plot - not exactly something that's hard to guess.)
-The Losties are all saved at the end of the episode. But then what happens in the next seasons? Perhaps some twist makes them choose to go back to the island. Or perhaps only certain important characters are left behind. Or some choose not to leave. (Not exactly a "derranged" sort of twist though.)
-Something at the looking glass changes everything to an alternate reality, where their plane never crashed on the island in the first place. (Not sure how they could possibly explain that.)
-The people at the Looking Glass are members of the Dharma Initiative, which is still going on, unknown to the Others. It is revealed that, in fact, the Others are part of the Initiative's experiment - and so are the survivors of the plane crash. It has all been one big sociological experiment from the start.
-And, of course, it could always be the old "they are all dead" thing. Maybe everyone on the island is a ghost. Maybe the Others are too.
I suppose there are an endless number of twists you could dream up - ranging from the predictable to the bizarre.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:-The people at the Looking Glass are members of the Dharma Initiative, which is still going on, unknown to the Others. It is revealed that, in fact, the Others are part of the Initiative's experiment - and so are the survivors of the plane crash. It has all been one big sociological experiment from the start.
This is the most logical course the show could take. Dharma would have known that the Others were already on the island and created the initiative to study them and the island. It also fits with Annie still being around. She would have been the only person left alive, besides Ben. It's possible that other Dharma members joined the Others, but Annie would be the only person still working for Dharma.
Originally posted by Morbo:
quote:Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke? It's one thing to finance a massive SAR mission, but a nuke is a whole other ballpark.
Haven't you been watching 24? Nukes can fit inside suitcases now, and can be purchased five at a time!
I really was just making a completely non-serious comment before. I doubt the island is destroyed.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Ok well we know that Ben has told The Others that The Looking Glass is flooded. I can only think of two reasons for him to do this:
-He is afraid that someone will go down there and do what Charlie is about to do. Thus probably allowing transmissions to the outside world which Ben certainly doesnt want.
-The other reason is that Annie was stationed in The Looking Glass pre-purge. Ben wanted to keep her safe so he told the 'natives', that he now leads, that the station was flooded.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
quote:Umm, where would even an extraordinarily wealthy Penny get a nuke?
For the sake of national security, I'm not going to post details on just how easy it is to get your hands on nuclear material in some of the former Soviet states. All it takes is money.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Did anyone watch the the Lost special last thursday? I think they're replaying it tonight. It sort of catches you up roughly on everyone's story so far and some of the other questions that have been brought up.
They also definitively answer some questions that people have been arguing about.
1)Desmond's late pushing of the button was the direct cause of the Losties plane crash
2)there's no alternate reality thing going on, the island exists in a particular physical location in present day earth reality
3)the magic box that can make anything you want appear was a metaphor
4)the black smoke WAS taking pictures of Juliette
5)the black smoke has a way of accessing information about the person it's seeing and judging them in some way. it can also access their memories and either cause them to see hallucinations, or itself show the hallucinations.
I think that was all the things I noticed. Nothing particularly new, but they did in essence squash some of the conversation that's still going back and forth on those things.
I think an important thing to remember for the last episode, is that Desmond's vision had charlie flipping a switch and then drowning. Sure he made it into the station alright and there's air, but Desmond's visions have all been pretty damn accurate, which makes me think this one still might come true. Or even if Charlie doesn't die, whatever Desmond saw will still most likely happen.
Questions I still want answered(not necessarily tonight though):
What's up with the 4 toed statue? What happened with Rousseau's team and the sickness? How are they transporting people to the island(i.e.-why do they have to be knocked out, and how did they get Locke's dad there)? What was the purpose of the button really? Who created the smoke monster and what exactly was /is it's purpose? What the numbers are has sort of been answered, but only through the Lost experience, not on the show. How much is Whidmore involved in what's going on? How do the others get all their information? Where did the natives come from? Are any of them still around besides Richard? Who's the dead body with all the Dharma initiative people with a bullet hole in his head? What was the purpose of the blast door map? What are the whispering voices? Who or what is Jacob? Who is ultimately controlling all the events that are happening; the random connections of all the losties, bringing them all together on the island, etc.. What's the show's obession with time? The crazy clockwork orange room had the snippet you could here when you watched the scene backwards which said something along the lines of "only fools are enslaved by space and time". Walt talked backwards in Shannon's vision. Desmond now has visions of the future. Countless other characters have had solitary visions of either future events or visions of people telling them about future events.
That's all i can think of off the top of my head, but i'm sure there are more.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Rousseau and Alex are going to meet!
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Holy crap! Charlie has finally become a badass, and he's gonna bite the dust! Dang it!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Yeah, that was pretty awesome of him.
When they asked him how he was going to stop the jamming without the code, I wanted him to go, "hmm...good question. I guess one of you give it to me."
Are there more commercials than usual or is it always like this? Seems like there's 5 minutes of show for every 3 of commercials.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
that smile on Locke's face was perfect.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
WWWAAAALLLLTTTT?
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
"You've got work to do." F-ing A!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I want a "White Trash Jack" action figure.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Me too, complete with cheap-ass sunglasses and crappy truck.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
wow, my crazy theory from the other week may or may not actually be true(for different reasons though)!!
if Sayid, Bernard, and Jin ARE actually dead, i think i'm going to feel pretty gipped that I didn't get to see it.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
hah, mother daughter bonding.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Sawyer has never been more badass.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
i almost wet myself when Sayid took out that Other and I cheered when I saw Hurley.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I kind of liked Tom.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
This episode is killer. But is it just me, or have they not answered any questions yet? Well, they still have 15 minutes.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
Poor Charlie.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Why didn't Charlie try to get out through the porthole?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
*sniffle*
Why couldn't you swim out of the window!!!!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I just kept saying over and over, "swim out the window. swim out the window!!!"
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Wow, that may have been the greatest episode of television I have ever seen.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
My brain just broke.
The Island scenes were the flashbacks.
Oh, you clever devils.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: Why didn't Charlie try to get out through the porthole?
He wanted to die, thought he had to die to save Claire and the baby. Desmond kept telling him he had to die.
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: The Island scenes were the flashbacks.
Or were the future scenes flash forwards?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I like Puffy's better.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Sooooo...speculations for next season?
Who got off the island? Is Kate with Sawyer? Whose funeral was it? How long have they been off the island? Why's Jack suicidal? Did some of them get killed after the radio communication? Jack probably blames himself and wants go get back to the island to help those who are still alive and trapped there. He had maps all over his apartment, trying to find the island? Will the show now take place on and off the island?
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
He'll hook up with Penny and find the Dharma dudes, then force them to take him to the island. Season 4 will end with his arriving (and the 'now flashback' stuff on the island will have progress into the future so that the two timelines converge again).
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I think the funeral was Michael's.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Strider
I would say Kate is with Sawyer. The funeral was probably either Locke's or Ben's.
The only thing that threw me was when Jack told the other Doctor about his father. Something along the line of "If my father is less drunk than I am then you can do something about it." To me that made the time line a flash back and I kept wondering where did this fit in with the other flash backs.
Then when Kate showed up at the airport I figured out is was a flash forward.
I would be surprised if we see much of the future stuff again soon.
msquared
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I thought the flashbacks might be the future at the funeral Jack goes to. I was positive right after the radio call where it flashes to Jack in his apartment. The talk of his dad thew me off, but it can all be taken figuratively. And we did never actually SEE him throughout all of that. And yeah, I kept trying to figure out where the flashback fit in Jack's history and it didn't make any sense. Why was he suicidal? At what point in Jack's history would he have become a drunk pill poppin crazy dude? And why didn't they ever show us what was on that newspaper or whose funeral it was. Future was the only thing that made sense.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I disagree that Jack w/ bad beard was the present, and the island was flashbacks. I think the show was purposely trying to make us think they were flashbacks, and the twist was that they were flash-forwards.
The set-up of the show so far has been: Island in the present, with one or multiple characters having flashbacks. Or maybe not necessarily that the characters are having the flashbacks in time with when they occur in the episodes, i won't argue that...BUT there's never been a flashback in regards to a character that involved scenarios that They Themselves were not privy to. So to argue that the creators not only switched the show to Present Day Rescued/Flashback Island AND switched the Flashbacks so they showed multiple viewpoints, not just focusing on one character, I think is stretching it a bit. It's an interesting thought, but one that doesn't really hold up to what actually occurred in the episode Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I think it was Hurley's funeral.
-Bok
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
I don't think the funeral was Michael's. It would fit the neither friend nor family angle, but why would Michael's death affect Jack so profoundly (ie. drive him to suicide)? I'm guessing it was Juliette's funeral.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Brain hurts.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
This may be wrong of me. But it was in a black neighborhood, and the funeral director guy was black.
edit - and like Fitz says, it would fit the neither Friend nor Family. Or would Jack have called Michael a friend? Any of the other people you guys named would fit the 'friend' criteria. Or is it someone completely random we haven't met yet?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I think it was Ben. Because it would be someone whose funeral Kate would NOT want to attend, and a funeral she'd be surprised that Jack attended.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:I think it was Ben. Because it would be someone whose funeral Kate would NOT want to attend, and a funeral she'd be surprised that Jack attended.
Which is why I didn't think it was Rose. Although at least that death could be explained by her being taken off the island and her cancer resurfacing.
But then Ben might also make sense. Maybe he was forced to leave the island and his tumor came back.
I'm still veering towards Michael though right now.
Regardless, I think some really really crazy stuff happens on the island before Jack and Kate and whoever else get off.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I don't think the creators are deranged. They are evil geniuses. That was awesome.
Here's some questions:
Was everyone rescued? Locke was walking away before the rescue call, it's a big island and there are plenty of places to hide. There may still be plenty of people left behind that a rescue ship would not have known about.
Will Dharma be acknowledged by its creators? The castaways would have a lot of stories to tell once they got home, and there would be many people that would have to answer for it.
Where is the island, and what is its nature? An island that large can't stay hidden for very long in the age of sattelites.
Who are The Others? If they really were the original inhabitants, then they have known the secrets of the island for however many generations they have been there.
Where did Walt and Michael go? They couldn't hev returned to the "real world" without some people noticing that were not dead. So, why didn't anyone go looking for the rest of the people?
Jacob, the smoke monster, the ruins, electromagnetism, dreams, visions, whispers, Naomi's ship, and many other mysteries I am probably forgetting have to be solved.
Many of the flashbacks in the last three seasons will probably be to the island, and to the events leading up to the current time, whenever that is.
The easiest prediction to make would be that Jack is going to search for the island. How would he do that? If Ben was rescued along with the 815 survivors, and he is not the one in the casket, Jack may go with him to find it. The same goes with Locke.
The way this season ended was a great way to keep interest. There isn't any more tension about being rescued, which leaves most available time to solving mysteries while still developing characters.
Posted by jlt (Member # 10088) on :
Why did Jack say he was tired of lying? Why did Kate say he'll wonder where I am (or something like that)?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Locke would never leave the island. And I'm sure there are other people there or why would Jack want to go back? And why would he be so upset and messed up?
I don't know how Jack will get back to the island, but he has to find it first. And he can keep all the maps in his apartment that he wants, I don't think it'll help. So he'll have to find someone who CAN help. Penny maybe?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:Why did Jack say he was tired of lying?
They haven't told people the truth about the island or what happened? They made some kind of deal to get off the island with the condition of silence?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Why would Jack put his hands on Ben's coffin the way he did?
Do we know how the person died? It could be suicide. Who would want to be on the island so bad that they would commit suicide? Locke or Ben I would say.
You wouldn't expect Ben to have anyone at his funeral(no friends or family). Locke though, i'm not sure about. Everyone was mad at him when he killed Niomi, but if that situation does turn out to be horrible, then they'll all realize Locke was right and then why not go to his funeral?
Also, why was the obit so prominent in that newspaper Jack saw? What are the odds right? Was it an obit or an article? Probably an article. Meaning it wasn't a natural death.
Anyone have tivo with some zoom capabilities? Did we ever have a close enough shot to read any of it?
[ May 24, 2007, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Strider ]
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Okay -- question: how is Kate able to be free? Isn't she still wanted for murder? I was going to postulate some sort of witness protection program, like all the saved Losties have to have new lives and identities, but that doesn't wash w/ Jack becoming a doctor again.
There has to be a few things that match up to decide who died: it has to be a Lostie that Jack had strong feelings for, not necessarily negative, or he wouldn't have touched the coffin at all. Couldn't have been Ben, then, unless he and Ben somehow connected after the Island. Also not a family member, and maybe someone who he was friends with on the island, but isn't anymore. So definitely not Claire, who is family.
What if it *was* Sawyer, and the "he" Kate spoke of was more like, a parole officer, or something like that?
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
The more I think about it, the more I like the alternate timeline possibility. I don't have much to go on, but that's par for the course.
1) Kate's not in jail. It seems unlikely that the FBI wouldn't meet her at the airport in the States and cart her away, especially considering the publicity that kind of story would generate.
2) Jack said that the survivors were lying about something... and I imagine if Jack got off the island and found his father was alive, he'd start drinking. Edited to add: also, he had a prescription from his father's practice.
3) Naomi said that the plane crashed and they found the bodies.
4) The episode was entitled, "Through the Looking Glass".
Some thoughts, piecemeal:
The "he" Kate referred to could be Kevin Callis.
I really enjoy the symmetry of switching from flash-backs to flash-forwards in the finale of the show's third season, when they've just confirmed that there will be three more seasons.
Edit to add: if in fact Jack et al were transported to an alternate timeline in the pilot episode, even if they get off the island, they are still "Lost".
[ May 24, 2007, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Lime ]
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
But an alternate timeline would be akin to an alternate universe, and the writers have said that's not what's happening.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:he had a prescription from his father's practice
I figure he just had a prescription pad from his father somewhere and filled it out himself.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
What if the flash forward was past the end of the 6th season?
What if they are NOT rescued and BEN is right and the people from Naomi's ship show up and start being even nastier than The Others.
What if they don't get off the island till the end of season 6?
The only bad thing is, there would be no tension about Jack and Kate anymore becuase we know they don't end up together (though they could still recognize some sort of hopeless love) and we know they live.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I think the coffin was Locke. If the island was taken over by the rescuers, he may have had no choice but to evacuate.
And the writers aren't clumsy enough to have all the stuff about Jack's father be an accident. I don't think Jack forgot his father's death in a moment of stupor, and I don't think he just cribbed his father's prescription pad. Something weird is going on here.
I think Charlie didn't swim out the porthole because it wasn't big enough. I know I thought the same thing when it was happening, but when the camera went back to Charlie, I realized that the hole was probably only about big enough for head and one shoulder.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I don't really understand why so many people are latching on to this whole Jack's dad is alive thing and it's all some sort of alternate time line/reality. Another forum i go to some people are arguing that.
We never see Jack's dad. Don't you think that's odd if he's still alive? He tries to use a prescription from his dad, and when the lady asks him about it he quickly says he's out of town and storms out. And when he brings him up in the hospital he's drunk, high on countless pills, and completely distraught, and is speaking figuratively. Which is also why the doctor gives him such a weird look when he mentions his dad, because the doc knows his dad is dead. And then Jack goes, "don't look at me like that!", or something along those lines.
I'm pretty positive that the producers just threw all that Jack's dad stuff in there to throw us off the trail of the fact that this is all taking place in the future. I don't think even they expected so many people to misinterpret it after the reveal had been made.
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
Dang, they vetoed the alternate timeline idea? Oh well. Was fun coming up with it.
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
Oddly enough, the one thing that confuses me is Mikhail. Is he "The Others" version of Locke? He's been killed twice, and survived, no matter how many times he gets killed, he lives. It's ridiculous. Last night, from what I could tell, Desmond sent a harpoon through his heart, and yet he's good to go and swimming and playing suicide bomber (no doubt he survived it) a few minutes later after losing pint after pint of blood. That to me is insane.
I'm also confused by the writers suggesting an alternate earth/sliders type of reality is not the answer because it's hard to imagine why they'd shut down topics of conversation, and hard to imagine this couldn't be an angle. I hope they don't paint themselves into a corner like the X-Files did, and then finish the series off with absurdist run of the mill nonsense.
Posted by DavidR (Member # 7473) on :
I don't have zoom capeabilities, but I do have a largish HDTV and a pause on my DVR that goes forward one frame when you hit the pause while it is paused. I was unable to make out a name, but I think that the first name might start with a J. I'm not positive about that. I am positive that the headline of the article was something like "Man found dead" so I am confident that the person in the coffin is male. I suspect that it might be John Locke, but then maybe it is someone that we haven't eve met yet. I still have it recorded and can look at it again after work.
The whole thing about Jack's father has me wondering about something. Did we ever actually see Jack's father's body? For that matter, did Jack ever actually see it? I seem to remember an empty coffin being found with other luggage back in season one I think in the same episode where Jack saw Jacob manifest as him. Does Jacob only manifest as dead people or does he manifest as people familiar and important to those he wishes to see him? We know he manifested as Walt to Boon's sister just before she was killed; we know Walt was alive at that point. I'm certain that he manifested as Walt when he appeared to Locke in this episode though we don't know at this point if Walt and Michael are still alive or not. I'm assuming, of course, that it is Jacob that manifests as these people.
Posted by DavidR (Member # 7473) on :
I imagine that they shut off that particular angle because it is so easy and convincing of an angle that no other angles whould get much discussion.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Just watched it there and OMG. I <3 Lost waaaayyyy too much. When the writers were talking about a game changer I didnt think they actually meant they would change everything!
Looks to me like its 'The body of Jo.....' Could be mistaken about the 'o' though.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
who's from new york but would be living in L.A.?
It definitely looks like a "Jo", then the crease, and an "antham
Posted by Verloren (Member # 9771) on :
I think Charlie didn't swim out (or close the door with him on the other side of it) because he really believed Desmond when he said that if Charlie didn't die like that, then Claire and Aaron (and the other Losties) would not be rescued.
He was also the real hero as opposed to the dark anti-heroes of Jack (beating up Ben and threatening death) and Sawyer (killing the guy when he had given up). I suspect Charlie's death and Eko's deaths are related to the island mythology somehow as they both had come to terms with themselves and their pasts and were able to go (somewhat) peacefully.
This episode was definitely better than what was happening in the beginning of this season. Having that pre-set finish date definitely helped, methinks.
Now, I am just hating the fact that I have to wait 7 months for the next season to start!
-V
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Yeah, so who the heck is ...antham? I checked IMDb and none of the characters have a last name that ends in antham. Maybe whoever's in the casket is someone we haven't even met yet.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I'm starting to lean towards that as well.
I'm pretty psyched to see what happened after that radio call was made.
Posted by DavidR (Member # 7473) on :
Jeremy Bentham is another philosopher contemporary to John Locke. Just throwing it out there.
Edit. Actually I am wrong. John Locke was an influence on Jeremy Bentham, but Bentham was born about 44 years after Locke died.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Originally posted by Sterling:
quote:And the writers aren't clumsy enough to have all the stuff about Jack's father be an accident. I don't think Jack forgot his father's death in a moment of stupor, and I don't think he just cribbed his father's prescription pad. Something weird is going on here.
I don't think he was speaking figuratively about being "more drunk than his dad."
When Eko had to investigate the "death" and "miraculous" recovery of a teenage girl in Australia, it turned out that the medical examiner had done the examination wrong, and the girl was in a coma.
Suppose the same ME looked at Christian Shephard. The incompetence could easily go to more than one case, and that ME could have mis-diagnosed him. The ME said that Christian had died of heart failure caused by alcohol poisoning. I don't remember an autopsy being done.
Christian may have been on the edge of death, but not dead, and when he arrived on the island, was healed by it. We never saw Christian's body, and one time when he appeared to Jack, he was wearing tennis shoes! If he was a vision, why would he need to wear those? Jack most likely would have imagined him in a full business suit.
We never got to know Christian except through Jack's eyes (except when he met Sawyer in the bar). He may have the same specialness that Walt does, and this was never revealed because there was never a complete character development, yet.
February. Sheesh. I guess I'll have to become obsessed with The Simpsons again.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Strider: I don't think even they expected so many people to misinterpret it after the reveal had been made.
Again, it's never seemed like the writers were that lazy or clumsy in the past. If they bring Jack's dad up twice, it's probably for a reason other than to throw off the viewers. An alternate timeline is hardly the only possibility.
I guess we'll see.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
First of all, Jack's beard needs to go.
"But an alternate timeline would be akin to an alternate universe, and the writers have said that's not what's happening"
I am starting to think of this a bit like The Time Traveler's Wife now.
The time traveled does not exceed the life spans of the characters by much either way. It would explain the non-aging of that one Other. It would help the writers to get Walt back on, who will be much older than he is supposed to be.
Maybe the characters "heal" because their bodies flip back and forth between times. This would have something to do with the babies dying at seven months, somehow(though I am not sure how)
Really, though, my head still hurts.
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
The one thing I would like to know is why they would ruin the ability to suspend one's disbelief about the beach executions by showing them alive and tied up, at day time in the preview 8 days ago? When they included that in the preview, we were all tipped off that the shooting, overheard on the walkie talkie by Jack and Ben, was faked. That bummed me out plenty.
And yes, why was Jack doing a really bad impression of The Dude in the future? He just wasn't nearly as funny as "his dudeness".
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:When Eko had to investigate the "death" and "miraculous" recovery of a teenage girl in Australia, it turned out that the medical examiner had done the examination wrong, and the girl was in a coma.
well, something interest in regards to that is that the chick actually had a real vision of Eko's brother. So isn't it up in the air what actually happened to her.
And here is all I'll say about the Jack's dad dispute. IF Jack's dad IS alive, it's not in an alternate time line or reality. It would be in the normal time line of the show, however far along in the future we were seeing Jack. And his living would somehow be explained through the natural course of events that happened. While I personally don't believe he's alive, I'll grant the possibility that the show could find some ingenious way to bring him back to life. I just thoroughly dispute any alternate reality/course of events talk.
Great find DavidR, it fits perfectly with the abundant use of philosopher names.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by graywolfe: The one thing I would like to know is why they would ruin the ability to suspend one's disbelief about the beach executions by showing them alive and tied up, at day time in the preview 8 days ago? When they included that in the preview, we were all tipped off that the shooting, overheard on the walkie talkie by Jack and Ben, was faked. That bummed me out plenty.
This kind of thing is why my wife and I fight kicking and screaming to avoid viewing the ham-handed "previews" the stations concoct.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
The writers have reapetedly said that, and I quote, "For the (insert huge number here) time Christian Shepard IS DEAD!"
As for the Losties keeping the island a secret, I just dont know. But Jack did say to Kate at the end someting like "Ive been flying with the gold passes they gave us". Sounds like Oceanic must have given them some sort of compensation. Plus how would the Losties have explained where they were and how they were alive without telling people about the island since the discovery of Flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean was obviously faked.
And I just realised that the 'Jo...' of the article may have been 'Ja...' as in James Ford AKA Sawyer. As to Kates reaction I can only assume that Kate and James may have fallen out post-island.
By the way I think all this alternate reality stuff is nonsense. It just doesnt fit with the mythos of the show.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I see it more like a time blip than an alternate reality.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh my lord! I just made a really long post and then hit Go instead of Add Reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, the .long and the short of it is, I think they are borrowing from The Time Traveler's Wife.
Desmond and Henry: long hair, lovable rogues, hopelessly in love with a woman.
Desmond wakse up naked in the forest. Desmond sees, but cannot change, the future. Desmond clings to Penny as more than just a lover, almost as an anchor, as Henry does with Clare. Maybe the dreams are not dreams at all, but he is really there with Penny in the past, but is then whisked away.
Both men drink a lot. Both men are incredibly sexy.
Henry could bot control his travel, and Desmond can;t either, but maybe Jacob can. And maybe they have him contained becasue of this. Maybe it is an illness, as it is in TTTW, and the island emits some sort of time travel sickness, but the people who can control it, tend to stay on the island.
OK, I'm going farther off the base, but I don't think I'm too far off, especially because the novel was popular at the ime the writers would have been creating these episodes, and there was a different turning of the plot this year.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
One thing that doesn't make sense is the "its not penny's boat" thing. What was the point if Desmond didn't use it. For them to make a point out of it seems to be strange. Who exactly is Naomi, and why did she pretend to be from Penny?
If the rescue group was able to find the island to rescue the losties, why couldn't they take Jack back?
I don't like the fact that Jack is a mess, and he doesn't end up with Kate.
Though, I do wonder if it is possible that the flash forward isn't a real flash...but a possibility (maybe it is a Desmond flash or something).
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:One thing that doesn't make sense is the "its not penny's boat" thing. What was the point if Desmond didn't use it. For them to make a point out of it seems to be strange. Who exactly is Naomi, and why did she pretend to be from Penny?
Well, I think Penny is being watched by someone else also trying to locate the island for their own purposes. they sent the boat and naomi and her cover story to find people and radio back with the coordinates. Charlie tried to warn Desmond, but the question still remains what desmond does with that information and what happens when he relays it to the other losties. We still know absolutely nothing about what happens from the time the call is made, to when we see jack off the island. I'm sure a lot went on.
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
quote:Originally posted by DavidR: Jeremy Bentham is another philosopher contemporary to John Locke. Just throwing it out there.
Edit. Actually I am wrong. John Locke was an influence on Jeremy Bentham, but Bentham was born about 44 years after Locke died.
This is exactly what I thought when I read it. I think the person who died is a character we don't know yet.
Posted by graywolfe (Member # 3852) on :
quote:Originally posted by Damien.m:
By the way I think all this alternate reality stuff is nonsense. It just doesnt fit with the mythos of the show.
How does one explain Desmond being able to jump forward and backward in time? One of the reasons I buy into the idea of something complicated and perverse like that is that Desmond is clearly doing things that are as far as we can tell, for now, essentially impossible. How do we explain the aspects of the Island and Desmond himself? My terror remains some half-baked, moronic explanation like that used in the X-Files to explain what happened to Mulder's sister. They've opened far too many "Twilight Zone" cans of mystery for there to be such a banal, and tedious conclusion as that future perspective shown of Jack and Kate.
I expect something fantastical and interesting. Anything less and I'll be quite disappointed. It doesn't have to be an alternate reality, but it certainly has to be in some sense magical, or far beyond our current understanding.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It had to be a flashforward and not a flashback. How could Jack flashback to stuff he didn't know about, like what went on at the beach or Benry's reaction to finding out that Juliet betrayed him?
No, I think the troubled look on his face as he was on his way to the tower was because he was having those disturbing flashforwards. I don't think they're actually off the island yet.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
I prefer to think that Locke was flash-forwarding... that'd help explain his virulent attempt to stop Naomi and then Jack.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
O_O (not to anyone, just in general at the episode).
Anyone notice the shark?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Anyone notice the shark?
I did not. I remembered the Dharma stamped shark when the girl was shown floating in the water (with blood) and I expected the shark to come any minute.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:How does one explain Desmond being able to jump forward and backward in time?
I don't think he does. Are you talking about the episode where he finds himself reliving the past? I'm pretty sure that's just one big island induced hallucination. And his premonitions are just an afteraffect or result of his interaction with the island after turning the failsafe. He's been embued with part of the power that the island(Jacob) has.
quote:t had to be a flashforward and not a flashback. How could Jack flashback to stuff he didn't know about, like what went on at the beach or Benry's reaction to finding out that Juliet betrayed him?
No, I think the troubled look on his face as he was on his way to the tower was because he was having those disturbing flashforwards. I don't think they're actually off the island yet.
Lisa, I think you're looking at the flashbacks the wrong way, it's the same way I used to view them. As actual physical flashbacks/memories the character was having at the moment. I don't think that's true anymore. We call them flashbacks, but I think it's really just the show using a convenient method to show us the history of a character.
Unless you think the scenes of Jack in the future can be course corrected and that it was truly just a vision(i would disagree with this) then it doesn't really matter whether you want to call it a flashforward and the 'present' is still them on the island, or that future jack is the 'present' and the island scenes were past. If you look at it from a perspective outside of time, events A happen and events Z happen. I just want to know what happens in between, the semantics of calling it a flashback or a flashforward aren't important to me(this isn't to say the scenes of future jack are the end of the timeline of the show, just the end of the timeline we've been shown so far).
Also, I've been thinking, if Charlie died for nothing I'm going to be really upset. I hope the information he gave Desmond helps in some way.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
So, here's my two cents (okay, so more like 20):
I think Ben is right (unfortunately) about Naomi being a bad guy. As evil as that man is, he knows a LOT about the island. He must have had a good reason to block the signal and keep them all on the island, rather than his own sick pleasure. There's something larger that we don't understand. I think that Lock possibly knows more about it after the island came to him through Walt. There's more than just a need to stay on the island.
Charlie had to die in order to get them rescued. But notice that Desmond never saw Claire and Aaron actually safe on the mainland. All he saw was them getting into a helicopter. I think it's more ominous than that. Maybe Naomi's group is just as interested in the whole pregnant woman thing as Ben is.
Locke is awesome. That's all I have to say about that.
I think the person in the coffin was either Ben or someone we haven't met yet. I don't think it was Locke. It could be, but I just have this feeling that it's not, even though the newspaper article doesn't support my theory. As much as they hate Locke now, I feel that at least one person would go to his funeral, as opposed to Ben, who everyone hated.
The characters aren't actually having a flash forward. They are merely an insight for the viewer as to what happens next. They are an amazing development though, as it makes you question all the other flashbacks we have ever seen, wondering if they are really flash forwards. Also it implies that for all the craziness that goes on on the island, there's something magically good about it, at least for Jack, and he never quite regains his former self after being changed by the island.
I was actually surprised that neither of the two women in the Looking Glass was Annie. I was so sure that one of them had to be, especially after Ben's flashbacks.
I forget if someone mentioned this, but the two people who have actually had the island talk to them (Eko and Locke) are in some ways the noblest. I think the island has a way of looking into one's character and determining their moral standing. I think that's part of why Jacob hates Ben so much. He's just so corrupt and evil that he needs to get rid of him, but is trapped by that sand barrier or whatever, and so needs Locke's help in order to escape.
I think that Desmond believed what Charlie wrote on his hand. Otherwise I would think so much less of him. I think he believes that Charlie's last act in this world wasn't going to be betraying his friends. Desmond is going to have a hard time convincing the others, unless he comes too late and they're already in mortal peril from Naomi's people.
I think Mikail is a lot like Locke. He has some sort of commune with the island. In fact, I think he's a kind of evil mirror of Locke. I mean, look at how many times that man has been "killed." We haven't seen the last of him. Mark my words.
Also, as a side note, from the Greatest Hits episode, did anyone notice that the woman Charlie saved was the same woman that Sayid tortured and whose husband tortured him in return. She was the woman with the acid stains. I had always meant to say something, but I kept forgetting.
Edit to add: I agree with almost everything Strider said in the post above me. They're not flashes, merely different parts of the story that we have to piece together.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Evie I agree with you about Naomi being bad. Theres something up with her and the boat. Im not even entirely convinced that the boat they got in contact with actually rescued them. They were certainly rescued Im just not sure by who.
Oh and it wasnt the acid hands girl in the Charlie episode it was Nadia. She was the prisoner that Sayid fell in love with at a detention facility in Iraq and let go.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
The good news is nobody nuked the island.
Now... Here are my predictions for what will happen next:
Jack and gang will be rescued from the island. Their rescuers will be members of the Dharma Initiative, who have been searching for the island ever since all their workers on the island were killed - and for whatever reason could never find it. It will be revealed that the Others have been hiding the island from the Dharma Initiative for all those years. Ben's Annie will be a leader of the Dharma people. They hate eachother - both Dharma and the Others consider the other side to be "the bad guys". It is science/technology vs. mysticism/faith, more or less.
Desmond will return to Sayid, Hurley, etc. with the news that the ship was not Penny's. Sayid, always suspicious, will conclude they have been tricked, so they will hide from the rescuers. They will end up staying on the island.
Locke will also remain on the island, and will eventually meet up with Desmond, Sayid, etc. They will all meet Jacob, who will reveal to them more about the island's history. Jacob will reveal that Dharma is trying to misuse the island for their own ends, in the name of science. Together, this group will work to circumvent the Dharma people who have returned to the island. Walt will be helping too, although he may or may not actually be on the island (maybe he is captured by the Dharma folks, but is using his bizarre ability to appear to others to communicate with those on the island.) They will be the protectors of the island for season 4.
Meanwhile, there will be flash forwards to the Losties who left the island. They are told to speak nothing about their experiences on the island (hence Jack has to tell lies), and are threatened with death if they do. (Perhaps the death that shakes Jack up is caused by someone trying to tell the truth about the island) They are also given generous rewards (including Jack's gold pass.) A fake story is contrived about how Jack saved them all. Nevertheless, Jack is eventually contacted by Penny, who is still searching for Desmond. Penny and Jack bring some of the other main characters back together and they eventually return to the island - bringing a final confrontation with the Dharma people.
How's that for some more random speculation?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Well, to stick with the stealing-from-the-Time-Traveler's-Wife theme I am on, every time Henry traveled, he knew a little bit more about his past and his future each time.
It all depended "when" he was coming from. But it was never an alternate reality. It was never an alternate timeline. it was one reality, one timeline, and he traleled along it.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:The good news is nobody nuked the island.
Not yet anyway.
I like that, Xaposert. The only problem I have with this is I think that Annie was killed in the purge. If she was unwilling to leave Dharma, then he would do it. Everything he does, he does for the island.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier:
quote: Anyone notice the shark?
I did not. I remembered the Dharma stamped shark when the girl was shown floating in the water (with blood) and I expected the shark to come any minute.
I meant the one that got jumped. I was joking. I will probably watch some of next season, but I think I've trusted them long enough. I really thought they were pulling it together at the end of this season, but I'm now convinced that they're really LOST.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
Do you really want everything wrapped up neatly in one or two episodes? I don't. That would be incredibly boring, and that is also when the show would truly "jump."
IMHO, I hope we keep getting mystified for the next three seasons, as long as the stories are good.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I agree with The Reader. If everything was resolved in 2 hours, I would feel incredibly gypped. I like the mystery. It makes things interesting. They said everything would change, and it did. All I can do is wait in anticipation for February.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: Originally posted by Xaposert:
quote:The good news is nobody nuked the island.
Not yet anyway.
I like that, Xaposert. The only problem I have with this is I think that Annie was killed in the purge. If she was unwilling to leave Dharma, then he would do it. Everything he does, he does for the island.
They showed Horace after the purge. I can't imagine they wouldn't have shown Annie if she'd been killed as well.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
In the recap show that came on before the finale, and was shown last week, the producers say that the remainder of the show will be like a mosaic that they will reveal a piece at a time to see the big picture. IMO, the future stuff with Jack is not a flash back or flash forward, but just another piece of that mosaic.
It reminds me of Lost Horizons, the book about Shangri La. No one can find their way to the island except by accident. No one who leaves can get back. They show jack in the future obssessed with getting back to the island now that he's off. People on the island are cured of their ills. People seemingly don't age. Those that live there consider it to be paradise.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
damien's right about the chick Charlie saves being Nadia.
quote:Evie I agree with you about Naomi being bad. Theres something up with her and the boat. Im not even entirely convinced that the boat they got in contact with actually rescued them. They were certainly rescued Im just not sure by who.
Or maybe you're looking at it the wrong way. Maybe the boat they called did take a certain amount of them off the island. but forceably, so we can't exactly call it a "rescue".
quote:How's that for some more random speculation?
Tres, I like most of it and have thought pretty much along the same lines. The only thing I'm not on board with is what you say at the beginning about Dharma vs. The Others. Not that I think you're wrong, I'm just not sure you're right. decent theory though.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
LOL! I didn't want a neat little package, nor expect one. And I'm willing to give them a couple shows next season to remind me of their brilliance. I've been a big LOST apologist up until now, through the odd turns it has taken thus far. But *shrug* I called that the X-files mythology was being pulled from someone's nether regions by the end of season 3 when most everyone still believed that show's creator had a master plan.
Now, with this show I'm willing to agree that they have a plan, but I will be mildly surprised if it isn't a profoundly stupid one when all is said and done.
The hubby was ready to pack it in after the first bit of this season, and I made him keep watching with me. It's still fun. But my high hopes for something really amazing and cool out of a TV show... Meh.
I enjoyed the finale. I think I'd like to see them kill Jack's whiny butt in the next season, or something really unexpected.
So, I have hope that it won't become something I don't want to watch. I just don't care much one way or another.
The shark thing was a joke. No need to het up about it. It would be cool if I still cared enough to mind one way or another, but I don't.*shrug*
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
A gal on another site posted this about the obit - I'm not sure where she got it though so I can't vouch for its accuracy but thought I'd share it anyway...
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft. Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
I wonder if the "flash forwards" are pieces from the final season?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Well the only current Lostie who would fit that description (that of having a teenaged son) would be Michael. So maybe he and Walt changed their names after returning to the real world?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
It would explain why Kate was so appalled that Jack would even suggest that she'd go to his funeral.
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Wendybird I think that what you posted is right after looking at both it and the picture of the obit.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by stihl1: It reminds me of Lost Horizons, the book about Shangri La. No one can find their way to the island except by accident. No one who leaves can get back. They show jack in the future obssessed with getting back to the island now that he's off. People on the island are cured of their ills. People seemingly don't age. Those that live there consider it to be paradise.
This season surely had some stuff in it that seemed to be lifted right out of Lost Horizons.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: Well the only current Lostie who would fit that description (that of having a teenaged son) would be Michael. So maybe he and Walt changed their names after returning to the real world?
Maybe. Michael would have had to do something to hide where he came from once he left the island. He couldn't tell people that he killed Anna-Lucia and Libby so he could leave.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Sigh. Whine alert! + + + + Sometimes I feel no one hears a thing I say. Shangri-la was a novel based on a legend myth of a place called Shambhala. "On the Road to Shambhala" played when Hurley drove the VW bus down the mountain. That episode was tossed of as a "fun" one, but I think it was a very important piece of the puzzle.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
" “As for the measurements and description of the Land of Shambhala,” as one Tibetan commentator notes, ”its appearance varies according to one’s own karma. For example, one and the same river will be seen by gods as nectar, by man as water, by hungry ghosts as pus and blood, and by some animals as a place to live in. Therefore, it is difficult to say specifically what anything is.” It is possible, however, to give a “description of Shambhala, established by the collective karma of sentient beings” and thus reported in written sources. This description of Shambhala is also depicted on thangkas of Shambhala with varying degrees of verisimilitude."
Everyone seems to experience the island based on their own past, their own karma, and the island has a way of balancing out the kharma. I do not think it is an accident that it was the "Dharma" group who started the whole thing(maybe!)"Dharma" means, very basically, the behavior one should have based on the word of Buddha. "The way," "the way to live."
Sorry to offend any Buddhists with the extreme synopsis.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Elizabeth, I remember reading your past posts about this and thought you were really onto something. I think it's obvious the creators are drawing on this myth when creating their story. The question is, is the use of the story akin to George Lucas drawing on mythology to create Star Wars, or is it a more literal connection? Either way, good find, I meant to mention it when I first read it.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
I've been out of the loop for awhile now, so this may have already been discussed. If it has I'll go ahead and apologize.
In Locke's first flashback episode he uses a paper calculator, when the calculator starts typing it sounds alot like the black smoke noise. Any thoughts?
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:The Monster makes a variety of different sounds that sound both mechanical and biological. Its mechanical sounds have been described as: whirring, clanking, chattering, ratcheting, roaring, mostly like a black-billed magpie, and noises similar to releasing air pressure or dot matrix printers. Rose remarked that the sounds were familiar to her, a sound that was commented by the directors to be similar to noises heard in Bronx, NY. The sound could be, or is very similar to the sound of a receipt being printing in a NYC Taxi Cab or possibly Subway rail cars.
In the voiceover commentary for the "The 23rd Psalm" on the Season Two DVD, producer Bryan Burk confirms that the Monster's sound effect is indeed the receipt printer from a NYC taxicab. This sound effect is heard in "Walkabout" right before the first commercial when Locke punches some numbers into a counting machine. The counting machine's printing sound is the same sound the Monster makes in "Exodus, Part 2" as it flies by Kate and Jack. This was reaffirmed in the May 21, 2007 podcast, but it was clarified that the mythology of the Monster is unrelated to the cabs; it is just a matter of sound effects.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Does anybody else think that Nathan looks a bit like Ethan?![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
Sterling![[Frown]](frown.gif)