Ack. Too many scenery-chewing villians and not enough screen time to develop any of their characters. Sound like "Batman & Robin"... who knows, maybe Venom will have nipples.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
It's all in how they use them, though. They did in my opinion an outstanding job with 1 and 2, hopefully they won't fall into that trap with 3.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Four villains doesn't necessarily mean four major characters.
Also, Dylan Baker played Curt Connors in 2, and is credited in 3 on IMDB as Connors/The Lizard, so I guess that's the fourth villain. I'm not sure why they're being coy.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Palliard: Ack. Too many scenery-chewing villians and not enough screen time to develop any of their characters. Sound like "Batman & Robin"... who knows, maybe Venom will have nipples.
Yeah, I have the same fear. Raimi hasn't been that good -- the first movie was enjoyable, but not particularly memorable, and the second barely an improvement. He's done a good job bringing the world to life, but his villains have always been kinda shoddy -- one insane because of gas, one insane because he's invented arms gifted with artificial intelligence that began controlling his mind.
The first wasn't bad, by any means (and the second was at least pretty) -- but I wonder how they'll cram the development of four such deep characters into, what, two hours? And a plot in there with them? Hopefully they'll at least jump straight into the plot, and not try to spoon-feed inane detail of and justification for the characters to the audience.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Damn. I wanted to see Mysterio as the/a bad guy in the next movie.
Maybe in Spider-Man 4? I like Venom as a bad guy, but Mysterio always had a special place in my heart. Something about a purple cape wielding guy with a fishbowl on his head just struck me as the perfectly festooned bad guy.
On the bright side, if they can make the CGI work on Sandman as a bad guy, maybe we'll see Clayface as the bad guy in the next Batman movie? One can only hope.
As for the FOUR bad guys in this film...I can't say I'm surprised. Batman has had what? Only the Joker was in the first one, but Batman & Robin had Mr. Freeze (don't even get me started on the hack job they did there), Poison Ivy, and Bane. All the other ones (except the newest one) had two bad guys at least.
I don't think it's a good thing though. Mr. Freeze was mangled badly. He deserved his own movie to flesh out his character. Instead, Ahnold was allowed to brutally rape his character for cheesy ice related one liners, and he was made into a one dimensional character.
I think it'll be a decent movie, but I think this will be the last of this...era of Spider-Man movies. I'll be surprised if Toby McGuire does another one.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Wow, I couldn't disagree more, Eddie. I thought both Green Goblin and especially Doctor Octapus were quite well fleshed out. Not even just for comic book villains either, but for an evil guy who goes insane on the one hand (Norman Osborn was pretty vile before the gas, in the comics and there's a touch of it in the film), and a tragically ambitious/demented scientist on the other hand.
I don't understand where your fear of Raimi zeroing in on every inane micro-detail of background is coming from, because there hasn't been any of that so far.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
4 seems like a few too many to me, but I console myself in thinking that some of them may just be set ups for their role as the big villain(s) in the next movie. Like Brock gets the symbiote near the end of the movie and hey, that means Venom is in it, but not really.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Remember that Sam Raimi is not a fool and I doubt he will have 4 villains all battling spiderman at once. Or even if they are doing that I imagine he would set up things so the villains come in conflict with each other and fight each other as often as spiderman. But who knows, in any case I trust Raimi knows that 1 spiderman vs 4 villains is a bit much, and I would not be suprised if he manipulates things to more benefit spiderman.
As an idea you could have spiderman wearing the venom suit for MOST of the movie, and hint at what the suit is doing to him throughout the movie, finally getting the suit on Eddie Brock at the end of the movie. People would be mad because they didnt really get their venom fix, but it would leave the door wide open for a sequal.
Bob: Its funny we both had that idea
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Spidey on Venom on young'n Osborne action...
Oh, the possibilities.
-pH
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
BtL and Blackblade have summed up pretty much what I've been hoping for regarding Venom since the first movie. Introduce the costume in movie X, have Spidey use it to defeat the main villian of movie X and then discard it or put it away somewhere "for emergencies." Then it can get loose in movie X+1, get with Brock, and be the main villian for that film.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Might be better to compare the DC comic movies and the Marvel comic with themselves. There does seem to be a bit of a difference.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I'm kind of hoping that at least two of them (Sandman and the fourth) are single-scene only - someone for Spider-man to beat in a battle while making the point that there are a lot more super-powered people now.
I don't need character exposition on all of them, as long as the central ones (Green Goblin and Venom) are handled well.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I agree they should use one of the villains just for an opening sequence. I could see the sandman used this way. Someone Spidey catches just to provide some action at the beginning. Not someone they would have to develop.
Any story with Venom will be pretty complicated on its own. There is no way they will have time to develop other villains. The back story for the Hobgoblin is already in place. So my guess is Harry decides to kill Peter and becomes the Hobgoblin, manages to beat Spiderman pretty bad, but Spidey gets away. So he kidnaps Mary Jane or goes on a crime spree to get Peter to come our of hiding. Peter knows he can’t beat the Hobgoblin so he goes to Dr. Conners to get help enhancing his power so he can win. Together they create a power enhancing suit which later becomes Venom. Spidey uses the suit to beat the Hobgoblin, perhaps blowing up the doctor’s lab in the fight creating The Lizard in the process. I think you guys are right there won’t be enough time to follow through on the Brock storyline. The only problem with leaving the Venom story is I don’t believe they have plans for a 4th movie. I thought both of the main stars said after the second movie the third would be their last.
I don’t really feel it’s necessary to give the origin story for each person with superpowers. We are watching a superhero movie, it’s reasonable to assume if one person can have superpowers so can other people. I’m already willing to suspend my disbelief, get on with the story. This was one nice thing about X-Men, they had a blanket background for everyone.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I've heard some rumors that Green Goblin rather than being a pure villain will be an ally, like he has been occasionally in the comics. That would make it Spidey + Green Goblin v.s. Venom + Sandman + Whoever else. Not terribly bad, at least if they do it the right way.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I'm kind of hoping that at least two of them (Sandman and the fourth) are single-scene only - someone for Spider-man to beat in a battle while making the point that there are a lot more super-powered people now.
I don't need character exposition on all of them, as long as the central ones (Green Goblin and Venom) are handled well.
That would work well for me too.
Also note that spidey with the enhancement of the venom suit would be able to make short work of just about any villain they could throw at him in the movie, 2 on 1 fights would be entertaining. I would enjoy the whole "this power is untameable" dynamic too and watching spiderman give it up. In the comics he accomplishes this with the help of Dr. Conners in the comic, who was introduced in Spiderman 2. So it all seems to fit.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Another point on the character exposition is that Harry Osborn has already had two movies' worth of exposition leading up to him becoming the Green Goblin. After the end of #2 we don't really need much more screentime on that one before he gets going on evil schemes.
I suspect that he may play into the rise/creation of at least one of the other badguys, working behind the scenes against Spidey and only revealing himself near the end. Mainly just because that's how I'd write it.
--Enigmatic
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:In the comics he accomplishes this with the help of Dr. Conners...
In the original comics, he accomplishes this with the help of Reed Richards. Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:In the comics he accomplishes this with the help of Dr. Conners...
In the original comics, he accomplishes this with the help of Reed Richards.
I was about to say, what the hell comics have you been reading where Reed Richards didn't do this?
Then I remembered I haven't read comics in about ten years and Marvel/DC have apparently started taking their alternate universes way, way, way too seriously.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:In the comics he accomplishes this with the help of Dr. Conners...
In the original comics, he accomplishes this with the help of Reed Richards.
I think we're younger than you. I grew up with the cartoon series, as I suspect did BlackBlade -- and in it, Dr. Conners is the one who helped out Spiderman.
When asked, I still tell people that my major is neogenics.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Lol I was not aware of the continuity problem with the cartoons and the comics. But yes I believe it was the cartoon that made me thing Dr. Conners did it. Just seemed that with Dr. Conners being the person available in the movie to help spiderman with "this" problem thats the direction the movie would likely go, rather then bringing Reed Richards into the movie. Though I do remember the comics having Richards help him and then of course the suit escapes the Fantastic Four's storage unit.
I do not even try to resolve plot difficulties from comic book stories anymore, my sanity is to sacred to me.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)