Kevin Spacey just makes such a creepy, creepy bad guy. I can't wait to see what he brings to the film, as opposed to the uninspiring looking lead.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Yeah...it's a shame that it looks like Brandon will be the weak link, and he's the -star- of the movie. Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
What's the deal with his pants being tucked into his boots like that? It looks kinda silly with the trench coat and tie.
And I was rather impressed with how much the new superman looks like the old superman. I'm not familiar with his acting though. What else was he in?
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
Bascially nothing.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
I just can't believe Superman is finally back. And yeah, Spacey is frickin incredible. I had my doubts that he'd fit the role, but the trailer convinced me. He's perfect.
Posted by HollowEarth (Member # 2586) on :
That was by design, for what its worth.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Yeah, I definitely think Spacey is gonna steal the movie on this one.
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
Hey they misspelled summer.
Yes I know it's German.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I am not a huge Superman fan, but I want to see this. Mainly because of Spacey. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
This new Superman looks like a wuss. I could totally kick his ass.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Just don't punch him in the eye, huh? Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Superman is the least interesting superhero ever. I don't know why people love him so much.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Superman is the least interesting superhero ever. I don't know why people love him so much.
Probably because he was one of the first. If not *the* first.
(And no, let's not get into a conversation about Hercules, Ulysses, Gilgamesh, et. al, okay?)
I think the comic book as a form has undergone quite an evolution in the past 20 years. Much of it has been good (most writers no longer feel the need for soap-operatic exposition), some has been bad (There are women over the age of 12 who are less than a C cup, right?) But it's still good to remember the roots.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
This is why Warner Bros has had a hard time coming up with a good script for years. Superman was just too perfect. He always stands for truth, justice and the American way. Has almost no weakness, No internal debate, always knows what to do, he's not an outcast from society, he's not out for revenge, he not in it for himself, so he is not very interesting or relevant. Singer's challenge is to make him someone we can relate to somehow, make him more human. Smallville did this by taking away some of his powers and having him deal with all the same issues we all face growing up. It will be interesting to see how they make care about him more this time.
And yes Spacey should own this movie, if he doesn’t I’ll be disappointed.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I just hope he doesn't do it as campy as Hackman did. I mean, don't get me wrong; I thought Hackman was hilarious. But that's not Lex Luthor.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Superman just is not interesting because his only weakness is LAFFO kryptonite. I mean who was thinking (lets give this guy a weakness akin to a very acute allergy!) Its hard for me to suspend my beliefs when I watch superman because it feels like everyone and their dog just finds Kryptonite EVERYWHERE.
I mean don't get me wrong I enjoy a story about righteousness personified against evil personified, but I think the superman story has been covered VERY extensively. Did we really need another movie about it? I guess we don't "need" any movies or stories. But if this superman movie is, (postulating) the BEST superman movie that could be made, I still feel that it was a waste of movie creativity. There are still plenty of other stories that are better, that need to be told. <cough> Enders Game <cough> !
Edit: Kevin Spacey was a really good choice for Lex Luthor IMO I will be interested to see how he plays the character when my GF drags me to the movie.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Superman just is not interesting because his only weakness is LAFFO kryptonite. I mean who was thinking (lets give this guy a weakness akin to a very acute allergy!) Its hard for me to suspend my beliefs when I watch superman because it feels like everyone and their dog just finds Kryptonite EVERYWHERE.
Well, he's also vulnerable to magic and to red sun radiation. And the complaint about kryptonite isn't a new one. At one point, it'd become so ubiquitous that DC did an issue of Superman (#233) where all the Kryptonite on Earth was destroyed. Turned into plain old garden variety iron, as I recall.
But then there was the whole issue of Superman being virtually omnipotent. I mean, when you have someone that powerful, you kind of need for him to have some kind of weakness, otherwise you might just as well set up the First Church of Kal-El and be done with it.
There were other issues. Originally, kryptonite had no effect whatsoever on non-Kryptonians. That also seemed strange, because something putting out radiation ought to do something even to mere Earthlings. So they changed that as well.
With regards to your other issue about Superman... well, he's an icon. So periodically, there's going to be a need to normalize him into the current generation. The Superman who fought in WWII wasn't all that relevant in the '60s. And so on. I recently watched Superman II, and with all respect to Chris Reeve, his Clark Kent (and the other characters in the movie) seemed like cardboard cutouts in terms of the kind of characterization we're used to today.
That's one of the reasons I hope they don't camp this one up so much. The whole idea is to tell the story of what such a situation would be like in our world. How would we react to a super-powered dude flying around in his jammies.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Well, he's also vulnerable to magic and to red sun radiation
Do you know anybody (super heroes included) not vulnerable to some type of magic? I mean sure there are characters who have mastered magic to the extent that they can defend against it, but I do not know anybody who is immune to magic. As for red sun radiation, again that might as well be an acute allergy. But I do appreciate your explanation of some of the writer responses to these criticisms.
Just saying I do not like characters whose only weakness is their physical make, I just do not know any other being that is perfect in mind, yet imperfect in body.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Superboy Prime was invulnerable to magic.
Though Superman is far from perfect in mind. In his various iterations, he's had various problems. The Smallville Clark Kent is a judgemental little prig, and not particularly bright. Superman up until 1985 had an iron clad rule that he would never take a sentient life. There were even stories where villains tried to trick him into doing so in order to "force" him into retirement. It was a kind of black-and-white thinking that made no sense.
The post-Crisis Superman didn't have the same rule. And when he encountered three Kryptonian supervillains (General Zod and friends), he killed them. It was completely justifiable (in my opinion), but it sent him around the bend, and he developed a kind of split personality. An alternate identity who was a bit more violent, and who didn't even realize who he was (nor did Superman realize that he was actually this new crimefighter).
And then there's the whole Superman vs. Clark Kent thing. Man, psych books could be written about the unhealthiness of that situation.
Lastly, there's the whole issue of physical intimacy. Larry Niven went into that in depth in "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex".
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Superman II (many people seem to forget this) dealt with the notion that Kal-El cannot enjoy a romantic relationship with a human unless he gives up his powers.
Which actually makes a lot of sense.
More sense than Niven's conclusion that Kryptonian sperm would have the full range of the adult Kryptonian power set.
The final episode of Justice League Unlimited hinted at an important "weakness" of Superman: For the most part, he doesn't dare go even close to the full range of what his powers can do.
"I feel like I live in a cardboard world."
So, the opportunity to fight a fully-powered up Darkseid revealed just how strong Superman really is.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I would guess, part of this story line will go the trade off of almost unlimited power for a "normal" life, complete with intimacy. The whole responsibility that goes with that power, as well as being a lone alien in a foreign world.
Superman disappears for seven year and so does Clark, then Clark comes back and so does Superman…I would hope one of those top notch investigative reporters would put 2 and 2 together. Not to forget it’s the same person without glasses and his hair brushed differently.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The Superman Mythos has always required more suspension of disbelief than almost any other super-hero, it's true.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
I just can't get myself excited for this movie. I grew up on the Reeve movies, and I absolutely adored Louis and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. But I think Smallville killed the idea for me, and another Blue Steel-looking fellow as superman just doesn't do it for me. I miss the tall, awkward, older versions.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Superman II (many people seem to forget this) dealt with the notion that Kal-El cannot enjoy a romantic relationship with a human unless he gives up his powers.
Which actually makes a lot of sense.
More sense than Niven's conclusion that Kryptonian sperm would have the full range of the adult Kryptonian power set.
Heh. Though the version of Superman Niven was dealing with... I think he was spot on. Cats and dogs and horses all had the same powers that Superman did. Microbes as well, if I'm not mistaken. So why microbes and not sperm?
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: The final episode of Justice League Unlimited hinted at an important "weakness" of Superman: For the most part, he doesn't dare go even close to the full range of what his powers can do.
"I feel like I live in a cardboard world."
So, the opportunity to fight a fully-powered up Darkseid revealed just how strong Superman really is.
<nod> They recently reintroduced Kara Zor-El, Kal-El's cousin from Krypton. Supergirl. And for a while, it looked as though she was stronger than her cousin. Which annoyed a lot of people.
In the end, it turned out that she isn't any stronger than he is. On the contrary, he's stronger. But he has a psychological weakness, in that he was raised among Earth humans, and is used to restraining himself. Kara had no such reservations, so she seemed to be more powerful.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by SC Carver: Not to forget it’s the same person without glasses and his hair brushed differently.
Not to mention the fact that a blue costume would be visible through a white shirt.
Comet and Streaky don't count, of the list you give, only Krypto was a genuine Kryptonian.
As far as microbes go, there -were- Kryptonian germs and fungi that could affect Superman...but I don't recall a story in which they had the full power set. Correct me if I'm wrong. Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
True, but it was clear that cats or horses from Krypton would have the same superpowers.
Damn, you're good, though. Though I didn't include Beppo, the Super Monkey, who was Kryptonian.
I have this vague memory of a story in which super microbes or bloodcells featured. I'll have to look around.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The best Superman stories, IMO, is when this paragon of simple virtue runs up against modern heroes and the compromises they make. I loved the Kingdom Come miniseries for just that reason.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Kingdom Come is good, as are all the Alan Moore Superman stories...and the Dini/Timm incarnation...who isn't a boy scout, he's more a mysterious savior figure type who's also a rather hardboiled reporter.
Oh, and Elliot S! Maggin's version.
[ June 05, 2006, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Elliot S! Maggin.
My hero.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Ooh! Something I recognize! I read Miracle Monday way back when.
That book gave the origin of the "kill no sentient being" ethos, IIRC.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I think it actually predated Maggin's books. Though the thing with the dog was a really cool illustration.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
I always kinda figured that Superman should be portrayed as utterly unstoppable; no kryptonite, no red radiation, nothing.
Drop him into a world without supervillains. A world where no one can stand against him physically.
How useful would he be in fighting crime? Not all that useful, unless he went around at superspeed killing everyone that broke the law.
Either Superman would have to impose a super-dictatorship, or he'd be every bit as impotent as a fully human crime fighter.
Nearly omnipotent, but basically impotent. (hmm... sounds a bit like Homer Simpson's favourite fictional character..)
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I believe that was called "Marvelman", or "Miracleman" in the U.S.
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