If, like me, you are a diehard fan of the dying breed known as "Hollywood Movies", you need this book.
Case by case it studies the bloated rise and stunning falls of the most infamous, high profile flop pictures.
The ones that in some cases literally changed the way the movie industry works, and in others became forever linked with " creative and financial failure" in the public mind.
Cleopatra The Chase Paint Your Wagon The Wild Party Popeye The Cotton Club Shanghai Surprise Ishtar Last Action Hero Cutthroat Island Showgirls Waterworld The Postman Battlefield Earth Town and Country
There's also a fascinating look at how the long dead and shattered old Hollywood system prevented flops from seriously hurting studios...as well as an explanation on why certain flops (Heaven's Gate, Bonfire of the Vanities) were better covered elsewhere.
It's by James Robert Parish, and it is almost as entertaining to read as watching a good film. Or making fun of a turkey. Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
What, no Gigli?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You have to SPEND money on a movie to be a financial failure. Besides that, I think Gigli made more money being advertised as the worst movie of the decade than it would have if it had been taken seriously.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Gigli failed more on being a plain bad film with over-exposed stars rather than on being a cash-guzzling, out-of-control creative black hole. Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
I liked Paint Your Wagon. It's worth it just to hear Clint Eastwood sing.
But I seriously liked Popeye. I have heard Robin Williams, in interview, talk about how embarassed of that film he is, and I think he's nuts. (Okay, I would think he's nuts anyway). Truly, I think Popeye is a really good movie.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Personal liking of a film has little to do with how much of a money sponge it was, how troubled the production was, and how much of a miss it was at the box office.
Sad, but true.
Robin Williams' experience on Popeye was nightmarish. The fake forearms alone were literally agonizing for him to wear. And that's not even the worst of the stuff he had to deal with.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
From what I've heard about production on that movie, he probably doesn't remember half of it, if that's any consolation.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Last Action Hero Cutthroat Island
Huh? I liked these. Granted, Cutthroat Island was incredibly cheesy, but Geena Davis as an action hero? This movie led directly to Long Kiss Goodnight, which totally rocked.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Gigli failed more on being a plain bad film with over-exposed stars rather than on being a cash-guzzling, out-of-control creative black hole.
Uh... I kinda liked Gigli. It was very Elmore Leonard-ish.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Hudson Hawk should be on that list, and it is also a great movie.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
Flop or not, that opening sequence in "The Bonfire of the Vanities" with the camera tracking a drunk Bruce Willis is absolutely stunning. And remember the opening sequence in "Snake Eyes" that seemingly consists of one entire shot tracking Nicolas Cage through the boxing event? Gosh I love Brian De Palma's camera work.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
The best one-shot opening sequence ever is in The Player. It trumps all others because it includes a conversation about how nobody does long one-shot scenes any more.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I guess I truly am the only person on Earth that enjoyed Waterworld and The Postman.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
I watched Waterworld for the first time the other day.
For this story to make sense, you've got to know two things. First, to my wife, for a movie to be good, the guy and the girl have to get together at the end. To my four-year-old daughter, for the movie to be good, the people who she cares about have to all be safe and happy at the end.
So the end of Waterworld came, the guy and girl waved good-bye, and my wife said, "That was stupid." My daughter, who only cared that the little girl was safe, became extremely upset with my wife. She wouldn't calm down and go to bed until my wife told her she was just joking and loved the movie.
So at least one other person liked Waterworld, Stephan, and she'll defend it vehemently. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I liked The Postman.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
I haven't seen The Postman, but I liked Waterworld well enough for a post-apocalyptic action movie.
It's important to realize that when people are talking about flops in this sense, it doesn't mean that it was a bad movie. It has much more to do with the movie's budget. Iirc, Waterworld didn't do all that bad at the box office, at least compared to what you'd think given how people talk about it as this huge failure. But it ran way, way overbudget, it probably would have had to be a box-office record setting movie when it was released for it to make the studio a profit. It didn't, so it's considered a flop.
This is kind of like how hollywood called MI3's opening weekend "disappointing" even though it was the highest grossing movie in theaters that weekend. I forget the exact numbers, but it made something like $40 million when the studio was expecting it to make $50 million.
--Enigmatic
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Which is part of the frustration to those of us who enjoy Hollywood movies. The biggest determiner of the success of the movie is how well it opened. That's not so much based on how good the movie is as how well the promotional people did. Then it becomes a big self-fulfilling prophecy. Because the the people who talk about numbers say it "dissapointed" then less people see it.
Mr. Treat, how much does this book talk about the promotional efforts behind these films?
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Agreed, doc. Oh, and I forgot to mention at your story!
--Enigmatic
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
From IMDb, re Waterworld:
quote:Widely considered to be one of the biggest box-office bombs of all time, although it grossed $255 million from a $175 million budget.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by starLisa:
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Last Action Hero Cutthroat Island
Huh? I liked these. Granted, Cutthroat Island was incredibly cheesy, but Geena Davis as an action hero? This movie led directly to Long Kiss Goodnight, which totally rocked.
The book isn't about whether or not someone should or should not have a personal liking of the movies in question.
It's a look at how budgets got out of control, and how the films misfired at the box office.
Get it? Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mrs.M: From IMDb, re Waterworld:
quote:Widely considered to be one of the biggest box-office bombs of all time, although it grossed $255 million from a $175 million budget.
Yeah...the book goes into reasons why the official studio tally of Waterworld's profit has been called into question. There's evidence that far more was spent on the budget than that.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by docmagik: Mr. Treat, how much does this book talk about the promotional efforts behind these films?
Dude, Mr. Treat is my father.
Yes, quite a bit is spent on promotional efforts.
And how they backfired. The comment cards from the first test screening of Last Action Hero were shredded, then burned. And then the studio denied there ever was a test screening, which pretty much ENSURED negative word of mouth would spread like wildfire.
Also a lot of time is spent on how LOTS of money was dumped into stuff that didn't end up on the screen, and thus didn't really help the film's chances of success.
Cutthroat Island was the straw that broke Carlco Picture's already fragile back...yet almost none of the stuff so much money was spent on was stuff that showed up in the picture. More stuff like cocaine flown in for the bored cast and crew.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
“Poseidon” is a new one...cost an est. $200 million and so far has grossed only $50 mil..
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Popeye and Last Action Hero are on my list of "Great movies but..."
Popeye had, IMO, perfect casting and a storyline that met the old cartoon sensibility perfectly, and Robin Williams was ideal. But it dragged. You felt like fast-forwarding it would bring it up to normal speed. Last Action Hero was a great commentary on action movies from the inside, and it was about a half hour too long.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Last Action Hero falls apart once they bring Jack Slater into the real world and try to be poignant...when the entirity of the rest of the film relied almost solely on the metafictional gimmick and Arnold's charisma, it didn't have the emotional weight to pull what it was trying to say off.
Popeye was forced to be a musical, because Annie was a musical. End of story.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Another thing you really need to consider in today's movies are the promotional budget and DVD sales.
Warner Bros will spend an additional $100 million promoting a movie that is going to be a "big" hit for them ie. Harry potter, Superman ect. That money doesn't go into the production cost.
Hollywood is also making about 3 times as much money on DVD's now as they are on ticket sales.
Action movies tend to make a lot of money overseas, so even if they loose money in the US they can still make money.
So I guess what defines a major failure is how well a movie does compared to its expectations. "Star Wars I" was somewhat a disappointment by a lot of people with $431 million in sales, just because expectations were so incredibly high. While "Star Wars III" was the biggest hit of the year in 2005 with $380 million in sales.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The book goes into all of that, SC. Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Cool, I might have to check it out.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
"lose money"
"loose money" is something else entirely.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I guess I truly am the only person on Earth that enjoyed Waterworld and The Postman.
I didn't think The Postman was that bad, but, it's a movie I probably would've enjoyed more had I not read the book first.
--j_k
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Any film with the line "You give out hope like it was candy in your pocket." gets an automatic demerit from me.
I don't think even Frank Capra could have gotten away with that line.
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It was very Elmore Leonard-ish.
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at your story!