My first live (spring training) game of the season will be march 5th. My Tigers play Pittsburgh. People laugh at the Tigers, but who would have thought that the bucs could win a superbowl, and they pulled it off...and Boston won a world series, curse and all. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Weren't the Bucs deep in the playoffs for at least three consecutive years before winning the Superbowl?
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I'm counting down the hours until Boston plays their first spring training game. We play Boston College and then Northeastern, but the Pirates are our first real game. I love baseball season. Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
And the White Sox won a World Series too, meaning that in terms of cursed teams, it's the Cubs' turn for a victory.
But it would be cool if the Tigers won too. As a Red Sox fan, you know what I'm going to say here: anybody but the Yankees! Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Oh, and I lied. The Red Sox are playing Minnesota first. And Kristen, I completely agree. But now that they have Johnny Damon *shudder* who knows what could happen? Then again, we have Coco Crisp, so I think we're going to be just fine.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
We have no pitching, while you have upgraded yours. I wouldn't worry.
Honest.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Oh, and you may have Coco Crisp, but we have Count Chocula; we ain't afeared of you. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Jenni just met Jason Veritek last week. He was at Disney and she got to take him back stage on Sorin.
Being a third generation RS fan she was walking on cloud nine for days after. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yay baseball is back! Mankind's entertainment cure for insomnia!
lupus, you're a Tigers fan? Where do you live/where're you from?
I gotta say, it wouldn't matter to me if the Tigers were the defending world series champs, I can't stand baseball, it's like golf with a bigger ball for me.
I wish I did like it though, my mom's boss has season tickets in the Tiger's Den.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I'm from lakeland (where the Tigers have spring training). I grew up watching the Tigers spring training (and the lakeland tigers during the regular season).
I was even able to be a bat boy for the Tigers for one of the spring training games when I was a kid.
I did drift away from the major league a bit when the strike canceled the world series (though I still watched the minor leaguers)...I couldn't stay away for good.
Annoyingly, to watch the Tigers games I have to get them online...since not all that many of them are televised, but mlb.com has decent quality. It is still nothing like going to the game though.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You ARE talking about the DETROIT Tigers right?
Keeping with that assumption, if you're ever in Detroit, I'll get you tickets.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: You ARE talking about the DETROIT Tigers right?
Keeping with that assumption, if you're ever in Detroit, I'll get you tickets.
Yep.
The lakeland tigers are a minor league team for the (major league) Detroit Tigers. The Detroit Tigers have their spring training at Joker Marchant Stadium in Lakeland...which is where the Lakeland Tigers play during the regular season.
I'll definitely let you know if I ever end up in Detroit...that would be fun.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
mlb.com is the most awesomest major league sports website ever. That is all.
I also use it to watch baseball games, and when you factor in the very reasonable price, it is fantastic. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
kwea, if she ever meets him again, she must get a Tek autograph for me. I will pay almost anything.
Dewey, Tek, and Pedro. My baseball triumvirate.
Oh, and reverse jinxes don't work here, Icarus... The Yanks have a murderers row out there (even with overpaid guys like the "20-million-dollar man who let yet another seeing-eye single through the hole" ), while the Sox will likely go Snap and crackle, but not as much pop.
-Bok
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
I have a question about the physics of hitting a baseball:
Assuming that the same bat is swung with equal force in each of the following cases, which case results in the ball travelling the farthest when struck, and why?
1. Fast pitch 2. Slow pitch 3. Struck from a stationary tee
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
You can wade through the science, or skip down to the conclusion.
"~6! The optimally hit curve ball will travel farther than both the fastball and knuckleball, because of beneficial topspin on the pitched curve ball that is enhanced during impact with the bat."
but
"~9! For a given pitch type, range increases with pitch speed."
The conclusion also states that "Range is most sensitive to bat speed, which suggests that a batter ought to work on bat speed before anything else to increase the range of his/her hits."
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Assuming that the same bat is swung with equal force in each of the following cases, which case results in the ball travelling the farthest when struck, and why?
Do you mean, "assuming that the same bat is swung with the same momentum"? If so, then a good test might be to try throwing a ball at a brick wall. You'll find that the faster the ball is thrown the farther it will bounce. I think this has something to do with the conservation of energy. (It's been a while since my last physics class, so I can't remember all the details)
Posted by Hamson (Member # 7808) on :
Ugh, is baseball season starting already? What do they have, like 4 months off? Only 4 months of all sports media sources not being completely flooded with baseball stuff?
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
Hamson:
The good news is that during the summer there is no basketball, hockey, or football.
Definitely 2 ways of looking at the situation Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
Summer means softball season for me. I play every year. Just hope maybe I can pitch this year...
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hamson: Ugh, is baseball season starting already? What do they have, like 4 months off? Only 4 months of all sports media sources not being completely flooded with baseball stuff?
I only get 3 months off school.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Thanks for the info Avatar300.
Now I have a couple of beginner-level questions:
If I am the runner on first, and the batter hits a grounder fielded by short stop or the second baseman, I know I'm out. Do I run anyway?
Do I always run immediately after I hit the ball? How do I overcome the tendency to want to stand there and see how far the ball goes?
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:Originally posted by skillery: Thanks for the info Avatar300.
Now I have a couple of beginner-level questions:
If I am the runner on first, and the batter hits a grounder fielded by short stop or the second baseman, I know I'm out. Do I run anyway?
Yes, you never know when someone will make a mistake. Never give up until you are actually out.
quote: Do I always run immediately after I hit the ball? How do I overcome the tendency to want to stand there and see how far the ball goes?
If it is low...or if there are 2 outs, you run at once. If there is air under the ball, and it might be caught before hitting the ground...you don't go to far from the base, since you need to tag up if it is caught before it hits the ground.
The reason you run at once no matter what if there are two outs, is it doesn't matter to the runner if the ball is caught, because if it is caught there are 3 outs anyway and the at bat is over so there would be no need to tag up.
As for overcoming the tendancy to stand there...you won't be playing for very long if you do something like that...so I'd say the fear of being benched could be a motivator. Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
But if I'm at bat do I run immediately? If it's a foul ball, and I've stepped out of the batter's box, am I fair game? Can they tag me out on my way back to the plate?
It seems like I've seen pros watch their hits before they run.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
No, you can't be tagged out on a foul ball.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
On a ground ball, a runner on base (1st, 2nd, or 3rd) is never automatically out. If the runner is being "forced" (either because the batter is running to first, and the runner is on first, or if the runner is on another base, but all the runners behind them are forced to run), they should always run to the next base, because the fielder could have trouble fielding, throwing it to the base the runner is running, running to tag the base the runner is going to (which is what causes an out), or may throw to a different base to get another runner out. If the runner on base is not forced (there is no runner behind them that is being forced to run to the base they are on), the runner does not need to run. This is the case, for instance, if a runner is on second, and no one is on first.
If the ball is hit in the air, it is actually best to listen to your 1st or 3rd base coach to tell you when to run. On a ball in the air, no one is forced to run (aside from certain exceptions, like the fielder dropping the ball, which turns the batted ball into a ground ball, essentially). Of course, as noted above, you should run on contact when there are two outs in the inning.
A batter should generally run on any contact, even if it is obviously foul. This helps them remember to be quick out of the batter's box.
Foul balls are a weird case. There are two separate categories: if the foul ball has travelled beyond the first or 3rd bases, or if it is "inside" of them. Lets start with the "beyond" case. If it is a fly ball, the ball isn't considered foul until it lands. So a ball could start foul, but the wind could blow it fair, or more commonly, fair ball can be pushed foul. A slight exception to this is if a fielder touches the ball, the ball is fair or foul depending on whether the fielder is in fair or foul territory. In the beyond case, a ground ball is fair if it passes 1st or 3rd base in fair territory, foul otherwise (the bases themselves are in fair territory.
In the "inside" case, fly balls follow the same rules as above. Ground balls, however, are only judged fair or foul once the ball is touched, or the ball stops moving. If it stops in fair territory, it is fair, foul otherwise. Similarly wherever the ball is, when a fielder touches it, determines the balls condition. Notice that this is different than the fly ball case, since even if a fielder is in fair territory, if the batted ball last touched the ground in foul territory, it is foul. So you will often see weak ground balls being followed by a fielder, who hopes it will roll foul.
-Bok
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
Am I the only minor league fan here?
Major league baseball has too many loud drunken fans, expensive tickets which are sold out everywhere but the bad seats at the start of the season, calluous players, $5 beers...
Going to a Joliet Jackhammer's game for an entire cost of less than $20 (including train fare), and getting 6th row seats, is a great way to spend a lazy Saturday.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
*ahem* It's the Braves turn to win the World Series this year. Thirteen years straight of winning their division, and yet they haven't won the World Series since 1995. It's about time! Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:If I am the runner on first, and the batter hits a grounder fielded by short stop or the second baseman, I know I'm out. Do I run anyway?
You have to run, because you never know when the fielder will commit an error. Also, if you get down the line quickly enough a good slide can help to break up the double play.
quote:It seems like I've seen pros watch their hits before they run.
I think you usually only see this when they know it's going to be a homerun. This gives them a chance to pose for the camera. Also if they know the ball is going to be fouled into the stands. There's usually less posing in the latter situation, however.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:Originally posted by hansenj: *ahem* It's the Braves turn to win the World Series this year. Thirteen years straight of winning their division, and yet they haven't won the World Series since 1995. It's about time!
Actually, the Twins will win this year. Santana and Liriano should each win about fifty games. Then, over the course of the playoffs they'll both throw about five no-hitters.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Actually, the Twins will win this year.
Heh. I was going to say the exact same thing.
quote:Santana and Liriano should each win about fifty games. Then, over the course of the playoffs they'll both throw about five no-hitters.
...and the average final score of each game will be 200-0. That's assuming we get Ditka as an assistant coach.
Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
You two wanna fight? *shakes fists menacingly*
Man, I love baseball.
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
My cousin is studying in America on a baseball college scholarship. I wish I was better at the it. Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Avatar300: a good slide can help to break up the double play.
You mean the second baseman will have to jump out of your way to avoid broken bones? So you're out, but you become a projectile.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by skillery:
quote:Originally posted by Avatar300: a good slide can help to break up the double play.
You mean the second baseman will have to jump out of your way to avoid broken bones? So you're out, but you become a projectile.
Broken bones, or, if you've got good spikes, severe leg lacerations. Not only are you a projectile, you're a sharp one (especially if you happen to be named Ty Cobb).
Cubs in 2006!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
*SPOILERS* . . . . . . . . . . .
quote:Gazing into the crystal ball By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports March 23, 2006
First round • White Sox over the A's in four • Indians over the Yankees in five • Braves over the Cardinals in four • Astros over the Dodgers in four
Championship Series • White Sox over the Indians in seven • Braves over the Astros in six
Sorry, Red Sox fans. Ouch, not even making it to the playoffs this year... Posted by hansenj (Member # 4034) on :
I'm ok with that. Sound like some sound predictions to me! Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
*humph* That can't be right. The Red Sox will totally win the wild card spot, and you know it. Just wait and see.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Nope. Yankees are in first, and... yep, Detroit is leading the wild card race. Oh, definitely gonna be a bad year for Boston. Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
My theory is the White Sox are going to make up for all those years without titles by adding another this year. It's fun to be a Chicago fan and an optimist for once without feeling as though it will jinx the team.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by plaid: Nope. Yankees are in first, and... yep, Detroit is leading the wild card race. Oh, definitely gonna be a bad year for Boston.
I doubt that.
Bok, if she asks for an autograph she gets fired, so no can do. If he offers, I am sure it will be made out to Jenni. Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Woo! Fun Yankees game tonight! The Rangers got out in front 9-0, then the Yankees came back to win it 14-13 with a two-out home run in the bottom of the ninth... neat!! Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Interesting article about how the Nat'l League teams are comparing (pretty badly) to the American League teams this year: link
quote:The junior senior circuit By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports June 30, 2006
In the last two World Series, the National League representatives won nary a single, solitary game. The Boston Red Sox swept the St. Louis Cardinals in 2004, and the Chicago White Sox swept the Houston Astros in 2005.
...
It may only be June, but after another week of getting blasted by the best of the American League, the writing for Fall may be on the wall. The National League is terrible, quite possibly without a single team that could even qualify for the playoffs if any of them played in the AL.
...
It is not even that the Mets, Cards and 'Stros are a combined 14-25 in this wave of interleague play. It is the way they lost. AL teams outscored those teams 225-168. ...
Thanks to a 131-79 advantage in interleague play, there are only five teams in the AL under .500.
Even the dredges of the AL are having fun. The Royals and Tampa Bay Devil Rays – a combined 41-85 against AL teams – are nonetheless 18-12 against the NL.
You don't need to wait until next week's All-Star game to figure out the better league. The Oakland Athletics, Toronto Blue Jays and Yankees, none of which is in the top three of the AL, might be better than anything the NL has.
...
League dominance is cyclical – both have had their runs of dominance – but the AL's cycle doesn't seem likely to end this year unless the NL contenders make some serious roster additions.
The three most likely AL pennant winners – the Tigers, White Sox and Red Sox – are a combined 39-6 against the NL. The three most likely NL pennant winners – Mets, Cardinals and Reds – are a combined 14-22.
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
...
Go Cubbies!
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
quote:Originally posted by plaid:
quote:Gazing into the crystal ball By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports March 23, 2006
First round • White Sox over the A's in four • Indians over the Yankees in five • Braves over the Cardinals in four • Astros over the Dodgers in four
Championship Series • White Sox over the Indians in seven • Braves over the Astros in six
Sorry, Red Sox fans. Ouch, not even making it to the playoffs this year...
Wonder how he feels about that Braves prediction right about now.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hell yeah the Tigers are leading [correction] all of MLB!!
10 games up on the Yankees, a couple games up on the White Sox and the Red Sox. Booya! Maybe this is Detroit sports apologizing for the Wings and Pistons.
I saw them play the Astros last tuesday night. Awesome game. I don't know what got into the Tigers, but I hope it's here to stay!
Who's your Tiger!
[ July 01, 2006, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Aww man, I'd forgotten how much I love baseball. I caught the end of a Cubs V Brewers game here at camp the other day while waiting for the staff meeting to start. 9th inning, Cubs down one and it was their last at bat. Brewers caught out the first on a foul ball, got the second to 3-2 then walked him after a couple of fouls. He stole second on a missed catch and then they struck out the final batter. Not that exciting for baseball, but since I was rooting for the Cubs it was enough to put me on edge.
I need to start watching baseball again.
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
Go Cubbies!
I was at that game. I almost screamed.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeesh: Go Cubbies!
I was at that game. I almost screamed.
Enjoy today's game? As a Sox fan, I know I did. Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheTick: Wonder how he feels about that Braves prediction right about now.
"Nonplussed" would probably be apt.
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
I went over to a friends house, I saw the very end in a room of Sox fans...
My mom and sister are Sox fans. My dad is nuetral but taped the scores to my door. My older bros are Cubs fans- but out of state. My other bro gave up on the Cubs. Grr!!!!!!!!!
C'mon Cubbies!
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
Is anyone else going to watch the game today?
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
This is the best day of my life...
11-15 Cubs
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheTick:
quote:Originally posted by plaid:
quote:Gazing into the crystal ball By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports March 23, 2006
First round • White Sox over the A's in four • Indians over the Yankees in five • Braves over the Cardinals in four • Astros over the Dodgers in four
Championship Series • White Sox over the Indians in seven • Braves over the Astros in six
quote:By now, it is safe to say the Detroit Tigers won't lose 96 games.
Such a thought could come only from the mind of a half-wit, which seems to peg yours truly. For that prediction – among others, including the Atlanta Braves winning the World Series – came in this very space about 100 days ago.
...
PASSAN'S (REVISED) PLAYOFF PREDICTIONS
AL East: Boston AL Central: Chicago AL West: Oakland AL wild card: Detroit
NL East: New York NL Central: Cincinnati NL West: Los Angeles NL wild card: St. Louis
Division Series
AL Chicago over Oakland in three Boston over Detroit in five
NL New York over St. Louis in five Los Angeles over Cincinnati in four
Championship Series Chicago over Boston in six New York over Los Angeles in six
World Series Chicago over New York in six
I'm still hoping that the Yankees will make it, but their pitching will have to settle down for that to happen.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tigers all the way! We're still up 2 and a half games over the White Sox!
Woot!
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Ahhh don't jinx the White Sox Passan!
I want to watch the game tonight...Yankees/White Sox, Moose vs. the Bronze Titan. Should be a fun matchup.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers have the best record in baseball, and they are still in the process of improving and realizing their full potential. Many of their young hitters are still learning to hit, even though they already lead the major leagues in home runs. Despite their astounding record, most people still do not appreciate how good a team they already are.
The Tigers have ten games left with the White Sox. Those will probably determine which team wins the division, and which team is the wild card. It is a foregone conclusion that the wild card for the AL will come out of the AL central, and be either the Tigers or the White Sox.
Predictions:
(1) I would not be surprised to see rookie Justin Verlander pitch a no-hitter this year or the next. Not only does he have a 100 plus mph fastfall, he has a wide array of other pitches that he can throw for strikes, including more than one killer changeup. He also has a pickoff move to first base that is the best of any right hander I have ever seen; better than most left handers.
(2) I predict the Tigers will win the AL Central division title outright, finishing four games ahead of the White Sox.
(3) I predict the Tigers will win their playoff games, and make it to the World Series. I do not predict they will win the World Series, though they have maybe a 40% chance of pulling that off, too. Remember, their manager, Jim Leyland, is the same guy who managed the Florida Marlins to their miracle World Series victory just a few years ago--and the Tigers have more talent than that team did. They also have the same catcher the Marlins did--Pudge Rodriguez.
(4) I predict the Tigers will wind up the year with six players having hit 20 or more home runs. Virtually every batter in the lineup has home run power.
(5) I predict the Tigers will wind up the year with three starting pitchers who are 20 game winners, and two more will not be far behind that. All will have winning records. One thing that helps the starters besides the stirling defense and the support of a powerful offense, is a first rate bullpen, with at least three pitchers capable of being closers on most other teams. One, Joel Zumaya, has a fastball that has been clocked at 104 mph during games.
[ July 14, 2006, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Correction: The Tigers still have 13 games remaining with the White Sox.
The Tigers now lead the White Sox by 4 1/2 games. The White Sox got pounded by the Yankees, 14-3, while the Tigers posted another shutout (12 shutouts on the season so far, leading all MLB) in beating the KC Royals 6-0.
Surprisingly, the Yankees are now only four games behind the White Sox in the race to be the AL Wild Card. If the White Sox do not pull out of their present nose-dive, they may not make it to the playoffs at all!
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:The Tigers have the best record in baseball, and they are still in the process of improving and realizing their full potential. Many of their young hitters are still learning to hit, even though they already lead the major leagues in home runs.
Ummm...who are you talking about? There's only one rookie position player on their roster, fifth outfielder Alexis Gomez, and only 2 players--Shelton and Granderson--with fewer than three seasons in the majors. 4 of their top five hits leaders--Ordonez, Polanco, Rodriguez, and Guillen--have 9,8,15, and 8 years of experience, respectively.
28-year-old backup left fielder Marcus Thames might be the only "young" player still learning to hit, since he's only been a backup in his 4 major league seasons.
I'm not saying they're not good, but they're by no means a young team, at least on the hitting side. They're just relatively unknown.
Pitching is a different story. And if Bonderman and Robertson can continue their dramatic turnarounds (both have lowered their ERAs over 1 whole run from last season) and Verlander can put up ROY numbers...and all three can keep the ball away from closer Todd Jones (3 blown saves, 5 losses, 5.50 ERA), then I think the Tigers are a lock for the postseason.
But I don't think that by any means they're immune from being like the Orioles or Indians of '05.
Plus, the Sox still have 10 games left against the Royals, compared to the Tigers' 6.
Detroit is 2-5 versus the Yanks and Red Sox. Comparatively, I don't think you can take Chicago's last two series, against the Red Sox and Yankees, and call it a nosedive--just two difficult series back-to-back.
Chicago's also 5-1 so far playing Detroit.
I think they'll make the playoffs, and are still the running favorite for division champs.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
It takes more than one season to become a mature major league hitter. Brandon Inge is still improving as a batter. He has surprising power, 17 homers already, but is only gradually bringing his batting average up. Marcus Thames has 19 home runs and has a good average as well, but he has only been playing full time since the middle of May. Ordonez, Rodriguez, and Polanco are the only mature, seasoned major league hitters on the team, who are not likely to get any better. Even Vance Wilson has been improving as a hitter.
Another correction to something I said earlier: The Tigers now have the third highest total number of home runs of any team in MLB.
The White Sox just finished being swept by the Yankees. I admit I am surprised and disappointed that the White Sox did not do better.
Yes, Frisco, the proof will come when the Tigers, White Sox, Red Sox, and Yankees all play mostly each other (and other divisional and AL opponents during the last half of the season.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:It takes more than one season to become a mature major league hitter.
That's why I pointed out that only three players--not only starters--have fewer than three seasons.
quote:Brandon Inge is still improving as a batter. He has surprising power, 17 homers already, but is only gradually bringing his batting average up.
Inge's batting average was .287 in '04 and .261 in '05. This year, it's .229. How is that improving? All he's doing is hitting more homers and striking out more.
quote:Marcus Thames has 19 home runs and has a good average as well, but he has only been playing full time since the middle of May.
Thames is the one legit young player you mentioned...but rather than improving, I think he's overachieving. I doubt he's going to destroy his first half numbers in the second half. At best, you hope he keeps up his awesome pace.
quote:Ordonez, Rodriguez, and Polanco are the only mature, seasoned major league hitters on the team, who are not likely to get any better.
And don't forget Guillen, who leads the team in OBP. That's half of the starting lineup with a combined 40 years experience.
Anyway, my point isn't that they aren't a good team--they are. But their hitting isn't what they're relying on, which is good for them because they don't really have any budding stars, aside from possibly Thames. Chris Shelton, who looked to be one, is actually getting worse. 10 homers in his first 23 games, 6 in the 67 games since.
They aren't even in the top 5 in the AL in Average, Runs, Hits, or OBP. They are #1 in strikeouts, though.
quote:(5) I predict the Tigers will wind up the year with three starting pitchers who are 20 game winners,
Not a chance. Two are barely on pace.
quote:and two more will not be far behind that.
The fifth starter for the Tigers is on pace for ten wins.
quote:One thing that helps the starters besides the stirling defense
They're actually dead average.
quote:and the support of a powerful offense,
See above.
quote:is a first rate bullpen,
Bingo.
quote:with at least three pitchers capable of being closers on most other teams.
The best thing Todd Jones has going for him is his moustache. But the other two, yeah.
What the Tigers do have, and what their season depends on, is good pitching. Their team ERA is nearly half a run lower than the next closest team!
If they do slide out of first, it'll be because their pitching becomes human. Kenny Rogers is the only one who seems to be slipping at the moment, though he's the only one of their phenoms who's managed to beat the White Sox this year in six tries. I think this upcoming three-game series is going to say a lot about who's taking this division.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Chris Shelton is an interesting case. He showed in April what he is capable of, but all the attention and adulation he got scared him. His problems in May were all psychological. He is gradually pulling out of it. I think he is in the place where he must decide how good he is willing to be. That is a funny thing to say, but it may actually be true of a lot of ballplayers.
Most of the Tiger hitters are learning to hit curves and other breaking pitches better. They were just fastball hitters, or hitters waiting for a curveball to hang. Do not underestimate the effect of good coaching from their hitting coach.
I think that the Tigers are a better team than the one that played the White Sox earlier in the season. You look at them in the dugout, you look at them continuing to fight and come from behind no matter how many runs behind they are, and you see a team that has become confident and self-assured, a team that knows they can win.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
This Yankees game is bull***t.
Seattle took a 4-2 lead into the bottom of the ninth and it started pouring (thunder and lightning, before the first pitch is thrown). Instead of putting on the tarp, they let the Yanks tie it up with a double, wild pitch, blown call, and sac fly.
Jorge Posada was clearly (like, without having to see the replay) thrown out at first even after Lopez slipped on the drenched grass fielding his grounder...but instead of Damon (flied to center) being the final out, he ties it up with a sac fly.
Then they put on the tarp.
What a cheap (probable) win for the Yanks. If they put on the tarp ten minutes earlier, when it should've been, the defense comes back on fair footing if the game does resume, or they call the game after 8 and the Yanks lose.
I hope karma comes back to get them in the tenth, and again tomorrow afternoon.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
So, Frisco, you're following a Yankees game that's still in progress?
Glad you're feeling so secure about Boston being in first place Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I live in NYC. I'm a baseball fan, and the Yankees are the only game on.
That said, our rookie pitcher pitched 8 innings of 1-hit ball, and the Yankees got an ill-gained win in extra innings.
I'll take our victory any day.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The White sox took the first game of the current set in Comerica Park (Detroit). The Tigers' pitching was not up to its usual standards, and White Sox pitcher John Garland held their offense in check. But then the Tigers won the second game on Wednesday, on a great 7 2/3 inning 4-hit pitching outing by Jeremy Bonderman ("Bondo") and a grand slam by Craig Monroe ("C-Mo"). It was also the day when the Jeremy Bonderman bobble-head doll was featured at the ballpark, and it seems the player so honored always does well that day. Placido Polanco did. These bobble-heads may be the Tigers' secret weapon! Maybe the White Sox should try buying some and sticking pins in them!
Posted by b boy (Member # 9587) on :
hm, could i be the only jays fan in this thread? they've been playing some good baseball lately.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers appear to feel like they made a statement today, winning the current 3-game homestand, two games out of three. They looked really aggressive, like they were really trying to take it to the White Sox. The key play was a take-out slide by Marcus Thames that flipped the second baseman head over heels and broke up the double play. It was perfectly proper baseball, of the hard-nosed variety. Because the double play was broken up, that gave Chris Shelton a chance to bat, and he hit a double that drove in what proved to be the winning run. Final score was 2-1. The starter, Ken Rogers, was relieved in the seventh inning by Joel Zumaya, who was stellar with his 100mph fastballs and devilish breaking balls that he also threw for strikes. Todd Jones closed out the game in the ninth.
The Tigers' lead over the White Sox is now 5 1/2 games. There are ten more games remaining between the two teams.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It has been a while since I saw the Tigers play good ball. I hope they keep it up.
Damon? Who's that? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah that, and we wait with held breath to see what the Lions do come this Fall.
::snicker::
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Lyrhawn--did you have to bring that up?
Could the problem with the Lions actually turn out to have been the coaching, all along? Well, if the last ten or fifteen coaches were to blame for the team's lack of competitiveness, isn't there some point where management takes the blame for hiring such coaches time after time?
Kwea, I think that's Johnny Damon of the New York Yankees, who just recently tried playing at first base, a new position for him.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Dmitri Young is back. He could be the left-handed power hitter (actually he's a switch-hitter) pundits have been saying was the one remaining need the Tigers have. Some suggested the Tigers might give up one of their excellent pitchers to get a good left-handed hitter. But that may not be necessary now that Young is back. He actually has been with the Tigers several years, and was at times a very effective power hitter. But early this year he had an injury, then went into a tailspin with some personal problems (going through a divorce, then drugs and alcohol). Even when his injury healed and he was able to play again, he was sent down to the minors. He seems to have gotten his act together. He said in an interview four days ago that he has been sober for 60 days now. Also, down in Toledo (the Tiger's Triple A farm club) he was batting .420. The Tigers decided to take a chance on him again, and he was brought back up. On his first day back, he was warmly received by fans and players, and he had two hits, one of them a crucial two out single that drove in two runs. So it looks like the Tigers' offense just got even stronger, and better balanced. With Young and Carlos Guillen as switch hitters, and Curtis Granderson who bats left, the Tigers now will be less vulnerable to left-handed pitching.
As for the pitching staff, it looks like it will be getting even stronger. Mike Maroth may be about ready to return to the lineup. He was one of the Tigers' most reliable pitchers early in the season, winning almost every start, when he had to go on the DL for bone spurs in his elbow that required surgery. Maroth is a left-handed pitcher. Manager Jim Leyland says that he may go to a six-man starting rotation when Maroth returns to make sure all his starters get plenty of rest, especially since they are coming up on a stretch of 17 games with no off-days. Zach Miner was brought up from the minors earlier this year to fill in for Maroth, and won six straight games. But the last two games he has struggled, especially Saturday, when he was staked to a five-run lead in the first inning, then allowed Oakland to score five runs of their own in the top of the second inning. Oakland went on to win the game, 9-5. Hopefully the coaching staff can get Miner straightened around. If not, they still have Maroth coming back.
Even though the Tigers lost on Saturday, they did not lose any ground, since the Chicago White Sox and Minnesota Twins both lost as well. So the Tigers maintain their 6 1/2 game lead over the Sox, and the Twins remain 9 1/2 back.
[ July 23, 2006, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Damon Who again? Isn't he dead?
Wait, worse than dead....he's a Yankee.
(Ron, I know...I just moved to FL from MA less than a year ago. Didn't know if you knew that. )
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Kwea, isn't Damon the guy with the long hair?
The Tigers' right fielder, Maglio Ordoñez, said he is not going to cut his hair this year, and it is getting pretty long too--but his hair is very curly. Damon's is straight. If it weren't for the five o'clock shadow, he would look like a girl. Must be hot, especially when visiting the Texas Rangers in the heat of summer.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Lyrhawn--did you have to bring that up?
Could the problem with the Lions actually turn out to have been the coaching, all along? Well, if the last ten or fifteen coaches were to blame for the team's lack of competitiveness, isn't there some point where management takes the blame for hiring such coaches time after time?
Kwea, I think that's Johnny Damon of the New York Yankees, who just recently tried playing at first base, a new position for him.
How long was the contract extension that Matt Millen got last year? I think we're at the point where it isn't the coaching, the players, or the management, it's the ownership. They need to uproot the entire old guard of the coaching and the management and start fresh, and not give five year multi million dollar extensions to people who continually make the kinds of bad choices that have degraded Lions football so much the past few years.
Also, my best friend waited on Curtis Granderson at the movie theater she works at the other day. She didn't know who he was until someone told her afterwards. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I enjoy watching Curtis Granderson play. He is one of my favorites among the new cadre of Tigers. I heard he has not made an error yet playing center field. He is a good and improving batter (he is learning to bat against lefties better), with surprising power (he has hit at least one home run to the opposite field).
After Monday's games, the Tigers now have a 7 1/2 game lead over the Chicago White Sox. Frisco, are you willing to call it a nosedive now, for the Sox? The Minnesota Twins are about to pass them in the race for second in the AL Central, and possibly the Wild Card.
A bit of news of the statistical type. Including Monday's game the Tigers have had three straight games where they scored five or more runs in the first inning (they scored six times Sunday). It has been reported that no other team has done this in over 100 years.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
It's official:the Sox(of the White variety) are in a slump.
Still, it was pitching that got it done for Detroit in that series. Scored 8 runs in three games and still won two of them.
That Wild Card race is starting to get interesting! Buehrle has been shelled for 27 runs in his last 4 starts, and the Twins have already jumped ahead against him today. The defending champs could be in third place in no time.
And my Red Sox...man. Yankees fans can complain about injuries, but with three starters (44-25 record and 600 innings last year) on the DL for...a while, we've been hit hard. Luckily, we've been plugging the holes with 22-year-olds, Royals castoffs, and the majors' second best run-scoring machine. Just think where we'll be when we get Wells, Clement, Wakefield, and DiNardo off the DL!
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Frisco, I'll take a decent performance (ERA ~4) from any 2 of those 4, at this point.
I also think we can safely say that next year Papelbon better be a starter.
-Bok
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yow. Minnesota's doing great, the White Sox are doing awful... really didn't see THAT coming. And the Yankees just edged into taking the Wild Card lead. Fun!!
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
It has been a great season for the tigers...far beyond what I hoped for, particularly after I got my hopes up last season, and had them crushed.
It would be nice to see them do well in the playoffs, though it will be tough since it is not like they are used to being there. Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
And they might have to face Santana, Liriano, and Radke in a five-game series.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers do have a sprinkling of veterans who have playoff experience. Ivan (Pudge) Rodriguez played on the Florida Marlins team that won the World Series a few years ago. And Tigers' manager Jim Leyland managed that team!
Well, it has happened. The Minnesota Twins have overtaken the Chicago White Sox, after sweeping them in the just completed series. Both teams are now 8 1/2 games behind the Detroit Tigers.
The Tigers play the Twins next. It will be interesting to see what happens when the two hottest teams in the AL Central collide!
Dmitri Young continues to hit with home run power, so it looks like the Tigers will not be looking to trade to obtain a left-handed power hitter.
Manager Jim Leyland feels so confident of the depth of the teams' bench, that he does not hesitate to play back-up players periodically to give his primary lineup players a rest, so they can stay fresh. This also allows the bench players to stay in tune, so they are all the more effective when they play.
Leyland is a very cunning dude. A few days ago, in the eighth inning with men on base with two outs and a full count on the batter, when everyone in the ball park expected that relief pitcher Joel Zumaya was going to try to blow a 100 mph fastball past the batter, Leyland went out to the mound. He had no special instructions for Zumaya. But he knew that everyone would figure he had advised Zumaya to do something special, surprise the batter with a changeup or breaking pitch. So when Zumaya blew the 100 mph fastball by the batter for the third strike, the batter was was taken by surprise, and had no chance of catching up to Zumaya's fastball.
Posted by cygnus (Member # 9613) on :
The Tiger's game tonight was fantastic!
C-Mo came up with a big hit when he needed to, which seems to be a major theme with this team.
I was a bit worried when Rodney came into the game, but he was able to get the job done and ended up with the W.
This series is shaping up to be an as advertised epic battle.
Bryan
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
As much as the Twins have improved, and I'll admit this game was tight, very tight, I still don't think they are at the same level as the Tigers. It's still the team that lost to us 18-1 in April. They're better, sure, and their turnaround is just as amazing as the Sox's fall from grace, but they have a lot of work to do to try and change their image, especially with their record versus the Tigers.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Wow, the eighth inning Sunday the Tigers entered the Twilight Zone. It was reminiscent of that game in Pittsburgh where all kinds of crazy things happened. Four errors, plus a balk called on pitcher Jeremy Bonderman, who had been cruising along with a one-hit shutout, with the Tigers leading 3-0--enabled the Twins to score six runs and avoid being swept in the series. The Tigers managed to get one more run in the ninth, so the final score was 6-4. Bonderman was called for a balk when he twirled his finger indicating he wanted the catcher Vance Wilson to go through the signs again. He forgot to step off the pitcher's slab before he did that. Since the bases were loaded at the time, a run scored.
It was a good day for the major league debut of Brent Clevlen, just called up from the minors. His first major league at-bat he got a two-RBI single. He finished the day 2 for 3 plus a walk. He also threw out a baserunner at home plate from center field.
The Tigers announced today that they have obtained another left-handed batting player, Sean Casey, from the Pittsburgh Pirates, in exchange for right-handed minor league pitcher Brian Rogers. To make room for Casey, they sent Chris Shelton back down to the minors--a bit of a shocker for the man who was the first ever to hit nine home runs in the first 13 games of the season.
Casey plays first base. He is 32, and is in his tenth year in the majors, with a career batting average of .304. He was a National League All-Star selection three times. He has not committed any errors this year, and has a career .995 fielding percentage.
Of course, this means that now the Tigers will have "Casey at the bat."
Shelton, after his sensational April, struggled in May and June. Lately he has been getting himself together and steadily bringing his batting average up, but has only hit one or two more home runs. He is very slow afoot, and tends to clog up the basepaths when he is on base, and is more prone to hit into double plays since it is hard for him to beat out the relay from second. He is the least likely person to get an infield hit. Maybe he will be brought back up later, if he continues to improve. Shelton plays first base, and the Tigers already have Dmitri Young as first baseman and the new acquisition, Casey, plays there too. It seemed impractical to keep three first basemen. You can only DH one of them.
I hope the Tigers know what they are doing--but most of their moves have turned out very well this year.
Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
Wow, I just read the first post about looking forward to Detriot's opening spring ball game. Crazy to think about where they are now.
The acquisition of Casey was a good deal. The Tiger's are trying to solidify their roster as they look toward the post season. I think the main question for Detriot is Todd Jones. How is that guy gonna hold up in the playoffs?
Was anyone else underwhelmed by the moves at the deadline? I mean, my man Greg went to LA for what I hope will be a brilliant finish to a remarkable career. But other than that, this has been pretty ho-hum. Dontrelle, Barry, Miguel, and Alfonso all sat in place. I really wanted to see Tejada move to a contender. Man that would've been exciting.
Also, what does it say about the Rangers when they grab Carlos Lee? With a team ERA of 4.74 it seems like their strategy is to make sure other teams' ERAs are 4.75.
Shameless Prideful Props: Shane Komine gave up one run over six innings for the A's on Sunday. At one point he retired 9 straight batters. I've actually seen this guy pitch when he was in high school (Kalani 98'), even back then you could tell he had something. If he can put up some Verlander-like numbers the A's are gonna be looking strong.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Tuesday the Tigers had a sensational day. Carlos Guillen hit for the cycle (single, double, triple, home run in one game). Sean Casey, newly acquired in a trade, hit his first home run as a Tiger. Rookie Brent Clevlen, just up from the minors, hit two home runs. And rookie Justin Verlander was the first in the majors to win 14 games. He is making a strong bid to be Rookie of the Year and win the Cy Young Award. There is another rookie pitcher who is doing very well too, Francisco Liriano of the Minnesota Twins. Right now Verlander has the edge with more victories. The contest will likely be between these two, and go down to the wire. It may depend on whose team makes the playoffs and goes on to win the World Series, if either of those teams do.
Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
I like Verlander's chances cuz he's on the Tigers, but Liriano's ERA(1.91) is stunning. Also, Papelbon (2-1 0.51-ERA 29-Saves) could make a run for it with Boston.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Go Red Socks! Posted by cygnus (Member # 9613) on :
I dislike socks, be they red, white or purple.
The cycle by Guillen was amazing. And Verlander is a fighter and I would love to see him win rookie of the year and the Cy Young. He just keeps flying under the radar, all the national media talks about is Liriano, but Justin deserves some attention, he is something special.
Bryan
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Cygnus, I think part of the reason Verlander has not been center stage in the national media is that Tigers' manager Jim Leyland is trying to protect him from the kind of overblown media attention that messed up Chris Shelton, and made it necessary for Shelton to be sent back down to the minors to get his act together and regain the balance that made him so effective as a home run hitter in April. Leyland has acknowledged that he erred in not protecting Shelton from the media frenzy, and promised that he would not make that mistake again with any of the other new, young Tigers.
Liriano has a lower ERA (1.92 compared to Verlander's 2.79). But Verlander is able to hang on and win even when he does not have his best stuff. He is 14-2 while Liriano is 12-4.
The Tigers are really a loose, cheerful, bunch. During last night's game, the camera caught Verlander in the dugout with a flame coming from the heel of his left shoe. Subsequently he and half a dozen others were laughing uproariously. Ken Rogers, who has long had a reputation for being a practical joker, was nearby leaning on the dugout rail with a smirk on his face. The Tigers' announcers speculated that it was probably Rogers who gave Verlander the hotfoot. This of course is the kind of good-natured teasing that lets the recipient know that he is a part of the family. Verlander seemed delighted.
By the way, the Tigers won the game, 8-3. Zack Miner (another rookie) was the starter, but did not get credit for the victory, since the Tigers scored most of their runs in the late innings after he had already departed. Reliever Jason Grilli was credited with the win. Since the White Sox and Twins both lost, that put the Tigers 8 1/2 ahead of the Sox, and 10 1/2 ahead of the Twins.
[ August 03, 2006, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:Liriano has a lower ERA (1.92 compared to Verlander's 2.79). But Verlander is able to hang on and win even when he does not have his best stuff. He is 14-2 while Liriano is 12-4.
Not downing Verlander, but Liriano's easily the better pitcher. Verlander's actually 14-4 and Liriano is 12-2. And Liriano started the season as a reliever, so he only has 14 starts, compared to Verlander's 21.
Of course, if Liriano's elbow soreness that caused him to miss one start clings with him for the rest of the season, the battle could be over for the Cy Young.
Not that Santana or Halladay (or new shoulb-be contender John Lackey) are out of it, but barring massive breakdowns, I think it'll be either Verlander or Liriano.
Or could my boy Papelbon be the first rookie closer to win the award? I mean, Liriano's given up 25 runs in 115 innings so far this year, and Papelbon's given up 3(!!!) in 54 innings.
Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
I think you'd also have to take into account the Tiger's lineup vs. the Twins'. That could easily account for more than liriano's 2-win deficit.
Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
Wow, so Liriano's won 12 of the 14 games he's started. Verlander-14 of 21. That's an amazing difference. Don't get me wrong Detroitians, Verlander is an amazing talent who seemingly with be one of the dominant pitchers of this upcoming generation, but he's just flat getting outpitched right now. By almost a run per 9 (1.92 to 2.79). This is gonna be a great race either way though. Of course, I alwasy cheer for Santana to win the award cuz he dominates even with the Twins offense. He should've won it last year. Halladay is ridiculous. If he's healthy, he posts Cy Young caliber numbers year in and year out. The difference this year is that he has a solid offense behind him.
Posted by cygnus (Member # 9613) on :
Craig Monroe does it again!!!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
kaminari -
Detroiters.
Detroitians sounds....just wrong.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
"Detroitians sounds....just wrong."
Not as bad as Michiganians. Most of us prefer Michiganders, even though the snooty types are offended by it sounding too much like a kind of geese.
Cygnus, C-Mo is beyond belief, isn't he? And remember, the Tigers played last night's game after taking a late flight from Florida after a night game there. Their plane probably arrived in Detroit around 3 or 4 a.m. Maybe some of them slept on the plane, but I never could sleep on a plane. The Tigers should have been sleepless zombies, but they still managed great enthusiasm in their 7-6 come-from-behind victory.
Frisco, speaking of Liriano's elbow soreness, Tigers manager Jim Leyland has announced that Verlander will skip his next scheduled start. Leyland is going to have reliever Wilfredo Ledezma take a turn as starter. Verlander showed some signs of fatigue in his last start, when he struggled a little to gain his 14th win. He only allowed three runs, but his pitch count was up to 91 after only five innings, and he admitted he felt a little tired. Leyland is very careful about safeguarding his young pitchers' arms. Even if they have a shutout going, he takes them out of the game if their pitch count gets too high. Of course, he can afford to do that, because the Tigers have such an outstanding staff of relief pitchers.
The Red Sox have suffered a real blow from the loss of catcher Veritek to knee surgery. He is the only other catcher in the major leagues who compares to Ivan (Pudge) Rodriguez. That right there could cost the Red Sox any chance of making it to the post season playoffs.
Again, manager Leyland tries to give Pudge rest every so often, by playing Vance Wilson as catcher. Pudge wants to play, and is not always happy about this. But Leyland wants to keep him fresh, and give him time to heal from all the hurts that catchers routinely endure. The good thing about Wilson is that he is a good catcher and decent hitter, good enough to be the first string catcher on most other teams. This is another example of the great depth or "bench strength" the Tigers have.
[ August 05, 2006, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
After Pudge Rodriguez hit his walk-off home run to cap yet another come-from-behind victory last night, the entire Tigers' team vaulted over the dugout railing and met him at home plate, carrying on as if they had won the seventh game of the World Series. In fact, I have seen some teams that won the World Series who celebrated with less enthusiasm. There were high-fives, hugs, jumping up and down and yelling. The Cleveland Indians could have taken some offense at what they may have regarded as an excessive demonstration. But if so, they would misunderstand. The Tigers are really coming to believe in themselves, believe in their manifest destiny, and building an enormous esprit d'corps. Remember, last year they finished under .500, and a couple of years ago they came close to surpassing the major league record for total number of losses in a season. Now they have hero after hero coming through with the clutch hit, the grand slam, the walk-off homer.
Starter Ken Rogers seems to have gotten straightened around at last. After giving up three runs in the first inning, he went on for six more innings giving up no runs and only one hit. He was totally dominant. He pitched seven full innings, then gave way to Zumaya in the eigth after his pitch total reached 113. It is unfortunate Rogers did not get credit for the victory, because he deserved it. But the Tigers did not have the lead until the bottom of the ninth. Joel Zumaya got the win.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
After Monday's games, the Tigers have opened up a double-digit lead over the White Sox, who lost again while the Tigers won. Something was wrong with Minnesota Twins starter Francisco Liriano--their star rookie pitcher. Even after being rested for a turn so his arm soreness could heal, he did not seem to have confidence or a dominating presence on the mound. The Tigers quickly got to him for four runs, and he had to be taken out of the game in the fourth inning. Later it was reported that some soreness had returned to Liriano's forearm.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Somebody asked Tigers' manager Jim Leyland if he felt content with a nine-game lead. He replied, "The only time I would be content with a nine-game lead is if there are only eight games left to play."
In last night's game (which the Twins won, 4-2), Leyland kept signalling for Magglio Ordonez, the runner on first base, to run on the pitch. He did so, foul ball after foul ball. After Ordonez dragged himself back to first for the umpteenth time, tongue hanging out in near exhaustion, the camera caught the usually stoic Leyland in the dugout looking at Ordonez and laughing his head off. Now we know what tickles his funnybone!
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Minnesota Twins, with their 4-3 victory over the Detroit Tigers last night, have finally moved ahead of the Chicago White Sox for second in the American League Central Division. There are many similarities between the Twins and the Tigers.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Twins are 8 1/2 games behind the Tigers, but only 1 1/2 games behind the Yankees in the race for Wild Card. The Tigers still have the best record in all of major league baseball.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Actually, since the Yankees are in first, they're not "in" the wild card race right now, and the Twins are the current wild card leader.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Plaid--good point. I forgot about winning the ALEast title. OK, the Twins lead the Red Sox for the Wild Card. But the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins and White Sox are all within a few games of each other. Of those four, it looks like two will be in the playoffs--one the AL East titleist, the other the Wild Card. That is assuming the Tigers do not collapse and their 8 1/2 game lead for the AL Central title evaporates.
There should be some kind of consolation prize for whichever team in the AL West finishes above .500.
[ August 11, 2006, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Some of the Tigers may be feeling the pressure, which they will have to learn to deal with better, if they are going to compete down to the wire and be successful in the playoffs. The errors by Tiger shortstop Carlos Guillen and by third baseman Brandon Inge opened the way for four unearned runs. It is too bad a superb pitching performance by Ken Rogers was wasted. Inge's error was especially astonishing, because he had plenty of time on a routine play, and is normally very accurate in his throws. Instead of throwing the ball to second as he has done hundreds of times to start a double play, he threw the ball 12 feet wide of second, out of the reach of the second baseman, and clear out into right field.
As a result of the previous game where Tiger rookie phenom Justin Verlander was hit all over the place, as he has never been before, despite the fact that he had good stuff and good control, the Tigers' coaching staff has come to believe that the White Sox have spotted something Verlander has been doing that tips off his pitches. Some Chicago batters waited patiently through several fast balls, then were ready and timed it perfectly when Verlander threw a changeup. Their swings changed noticeably when another pitcher came in. Tigers' coaches are going over the video record carefully to try to spot whatever it is Verlander might be doing differently with each type of pitch. The White Sox, of course, deserve credit for spotting whatever it was they spotted. No other team seems to have done it. Verlander is 14-2 against other teams, but 0-3 against Chicago. Other Tiger pitchers have not had this problem with the White Sox.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Chicago White Sox succeeded in gaining the three-game sweep over the Tigers that they had built up so much as do or die for them. This is their answer to the fact that the Tigers still have the best record in the majors, so they can claim they are nonetheless a better team than the Tigers.
But the Tigers still lead the White Sox by 5 1/2 games, and have had the best record in the majors for three months now. And the Tigers can point to the fact that they have consistently beaten other teams that have consistently beaten the White Sox. By getting themselves up so single-mindedly for their games with the Tigers, the White Sox may actually be setting themselves up for a let-down in other games. They need to remember two things: (1) Just because they won the World Series last year, that does not mean they are the best team in baseball this year. And (2) only after the final won-lost records for the season are determined, and a final victory in the World Series is posted, is any team really given bragging rights for being the best team in baseball.
Tigers manager Jim Leyland, when asked before the recent series in Chicago, if this would be an all-important series to them, he said no, they still have to play Boston following their series with Chicago, and other teams after that. This demonstrates greater wisdom than White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who declared that getting a sweep in their series with Detroit was all-important. Jim Leyland is very likely the smartest manager in baseball. He is the Tigers' real secret weapon.
Predictions: Watch the White Sox suffer a let-down, and lose several games now, and watch the Tigers take at least two out of three from the Red Sox, then maybe even sweep their four-game series with Texas. By the end of this week or the beginning of the next, the Tigers will lead the White Sox by 8 1/2 games, again. Then the White Sox will play the Tigers again, in Comerica Park (at home for the Tigers) this time. We will see if harsh reality begins to set in, then. Remember, the last time the Tigers played the White Sox at home (Comerica Park), the Tigers won the series, two out of three games.
[ August 14, 2006, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Where have the White Sox said that they're the best team in baseball?
And say all you want about Detroit beating all the teams that are beating the White Sox, but come playoff time, there's a 33% chance you'll be facing them in the first round, and their 3-9 record versus the Sox will be more telling than their 23-5 record against the Indians and Royals (compared to Chicago's 13-11 record versus the same).
Maybe wait until you win "at least two" in Boston and sweep Texas to start the cockiness. They couldn't take two from Boston in Detroit earlier this year, and now that we've finally been scoring some runs (11 yesterday, with none coming from Ortiz, who sat out, or Manny, who went hitless), we should be coming out of our slump.
And sweeping Texas is a pretty tall order, too, seeing as they're on a tear, scoring 51 runs in their current 5-game winning streak.
Just remember, having the best record doesn't mean you're the best team in baseball.
It would help to beat the good teams.
5-4 v. Oakland 2-3 v. Los Angeles 1-2 v. Boston 1-3 v. NY 3-9 v. Chicago 10-5 v. Minnesota (3-3 A.L. [after Liriano] and after they actually started playing baseball)
Maybe you should cross your fingers that you play the Twins in the first round. Of course, with the loss of Liriano, that seems like a remote possibility.
edit: I think Detroit's a good team, and are going to take the AL Central. All the posts I've made seemingly knocking the Tigers down a notch are...exactly that. I think you've made them out to be some sort of baseball juggernaut though, Ron, and they're just not.
Every year, there's that team that comes out of nowhere and uses that fire in their gut to just plain show up to every game they play. Last year it was the White Sox, so this year it's a little anticlimactic. They don't yet have the drive they did last year, but that doesn't make them better or worse than the Tigers--that makes them someone you don't want to play in the postseason, though.
For the same reason, I think the Yankees are going to pull out the AL East, much as it pains me to say so. The additions of Abreu and Wilson, Bernie's farewell season, and all the new, young blood in their lineup gives them the spark they so badly need. I think it may go sour, though, if both Matsui and Sheffield come back and start at left and first. Sitting Melky and/or Andy Phillips (not to mention turning Bernie into the fifth/sixth outfielder) will take more away from the team more than they could hope to gain in offensive firepower.
[ August 14, 2006, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Frisco ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I agree with you, Frisco, about the Yankees coming out ahead of the Red Sox. The loss of Veritek is a major blow that I do not think the Red Sox can overcome. It would be like the Tigers losing Pudge Rodriguez. The Tigers would still have Vance Wilson, who probably is good enough to be the starting catcher on most other teams. But he is not Hall of Fame-bound class like Rodriguez, and the Tigers would lose a vital spark. Veritek was on that level, before having to go on the DL.
The White Sox collapse has not begun yet--but then, they are playing the Royals, who are 41-78 on the season (.345). The Tigers beat the Red Sox last night, one of the six best teams in baseball, and still maintain a 5 1/2 game lead over the White Sox, and an 8 1/2 game lead over the Twins.
Most people would regard having the best won-loss record in all of baseball to being very close to equivalent to being the "best team" in baseball. When you maintain a substantial lead for the past three months, it has to mean something. The Tigers certainly are not going to apologize to the White Sox for having a better won-loss record than they do.
Next Monday, the White Sox will come to Comerica Park for a four-game series against the Tigers at home, surrounded by sellout crowds of Tigers fans. I'm not saying that will be an all-important series for the Tigers, but it could prove very interesting. The last series at Comerica Park the Tigers won the series, two games out of three. Each game, the Tigers become a little more mature, and a little more settled in the belief that they really deserve to be at the head of the pack, which they have since May 21.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Actually, our problem is bigger than Varitek. Our pitching woes are catching up with us. With four of our starting pitchers on the DL, two for nearly the whole season, the bullpen has been overworked, and it's starting to show.
If I never hear the name Jason Johnson again, it'll be too soon. There's a reason the Indians let him go. He should be a Little League coach in Wyoming.
We're gonna have to stay within a few games of the Yanks until Nixon, Varitek, Foulke and Wakefield get back to even have a chance.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers have won the first two games of the series, beating Boston's best pitchers, Beckett and Schilling. Tonight they go for the sweep in Fenway, with rookie phenom Justin Verlander on the mound against Dave Wells, who has spent much of the season on the DL.
Last night Tigers manager Jim Leyland's practice of using the team's deep bench strength to rest his starting players one at a time, so they will all be fresh in September, led to a strange situation. Utility infielder Omar Infante started at third, to give regular third baseman Brandon Inge the night off. But when the Tigers took a 2-1 lead into the bottom of the seventh inning, Leyland put Inge in as a defensive move, and Infante was out of the game. Unfortunately, with two out and the game tied, second baseman Placido Polanco injured himself making a circus catch to save a run and possibly the game. The Tigers did not have anybody left to play second. So Vance Wilson came in to catch, and Pudge Rodiguez moved from catcher to second base. Pudge had never before played this position in his major league career, though he does regularly take infield practice, and has played first base. He used Polanco's glove. No one doubted his ability to catch, but there were real concerns whether he would be able to turn a double play. As it turned out, he was not tested on that. His only putout was a pop fly he caught, calling off the first baseman and right fielder.
Polanco, unfortunately, suffered a separated shoulder, and it is not yet certain how long he will have to be on the disabled list. It is possible he could be out the rest of the season. Utility infielder Ramon Santiago was recalled from the Tigers' AAA affiliate in Toledo, and Omar Infante will be the starting second baseman. Polanco was a .300 hitter and a good hitter in the clutch, so he will be missed.
Meanwhile the White Sox lost to the Royals, 4-2, so they dropped back to 6 1/2 games behind the Tigers.
Here is a question for the ages: Why is the national media still ignoring the Detroit Tigers?
[ August 16, 2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Here is a question for the ages: Why is the national media still ignoring the Detroit Tigers?
Because liberals hate Detroit.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yes, because the national SPORTS media is full of SPORTS liberals . Cute. To say nothing of the fact that Detroit is a Democratic stronghold.
I don't think they are being ignored, though maybe Sports news is sick of hyped up Detroit teams that don't come through in the end?
Most of the people I've talked to in Detroit will be satisfied if Detroit makes it to the first round of the playoffs and loses.
Hell, if the Lions even win five or six games, I'd call Detroit the best city in American major league sports.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Actually, the answer to the question I asked is obvious. The national media is based in New York. So if you aren't the Yankees, Mets, or maybe Red Sox, then you are chopped liver. It isn't that they are liberals, they're just homers. Maybe they're east coast elitists, too. The national media has also been ignoring the White Sox, and they won the World Series last year.
Last night, the Tigers had to settle for winning two out of three against Boston in Fenway, when Dave Wells pitched well, and Verlander did not have sharp control of any of his pitches--giving up a career high of seven walks. But while the Tigers were losing 6-4, the White Sox were losing to the lowly Kansas City Royals, who beat them for the second game in a row in Chicago, this time 10-4. The White Sox remain 6 1/2 games behind the Tigers.
Magglio Ordonez should have caught a two-run homer hit by Ortiz. But Ordonez was not sufficiently aware of where the wall was (Fenway Park is a very demanding place for an outfielder), and hit it with his shoulder too soon, and was unable to jump when he needed to. Though the ball got over the fence, it was easily within his reach. That was the winning margin.
Tigers' rookie outfielder Brent Clevlen astonished everyone with his power. He was just called up from the minors a few weeks ago, and has been hitting very well and fielding flawlessly, and showing a strong and accurate arm, throwing strikes to home plate from center field to cut down runners. In last night's game, he belted a home run that was not only over the "Green Monster," but far, far, over the stadium wall. One camera angle showed it soaring deep into the night. His first visit, and he belts a homer clear out of Fenway! No one suspected he had that kind of power. Curtis Granderson had better get his act together and pull out of his batting slump, or he may lose the starting center field job to Clevlen.
By the way, Omar Infante did well his first game as starting second baseman, after Placido Polanco went on the DL. He had some good hits, and made some sparkling plays. One he was running out into the outfield grass, his back to the diamond, when he caught a sharp bouncing ball, then jumped up and whirled and threw while still in midair, relying solely on arm strength, his momentum still carrying him away from the diamond. His throw was on target and just in time to retire the runner. It was the kind of play an infielder dreams of making.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: I think the Yankees are going to pull out the AL East, much as it pains me to say so.
Much as it pains me to say so, I'm not totally confident that the Yankees WILL end up in first. Their starting pitching is uneven -- Mussini and Wang are doing great, but Johnson's been so-so, and they haven't been able to find reliable 4th and 5th starters...
5-game Yankees-Red Sox series starts tomorrow! Yeah!!
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:Here is a question for the ages: Why is the national media still ignoring the Detroit Tigers?
I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but on Earth, ESPN, considered by some to be a large sports body, is in love with Detroit. They're not all that big of a story at the moment, though, since their hold on the central is pretty firm. The big stories in the AL are Chicago holding off Minnesota, Boston, and NY for the wild card and Boston fighting NY for the AL East.
I have to give Detroit respect for actually taking two in Boston, much as we've been reeling. But 16-17 since the ASB, and we're only 1 and a half behind the Yanks.
Hopefully we can take at least 3 of 5 this weekend. Our bullpen is pretty well rested, and David Wells isn't pitching like he spent the first half of the season in a slow-pitch softball league anymore.
quote:Much as it pains me to say so, I'm not totally confident that the Yankees WILL end up in first. Their starting pitching is uneven -- Mussini and Wang are doing great, but Johnson's been so-so, and they haven't been able to find reliable 4th and 5th starters...
Replace Mussina and Wang with Schilling and Beckett and Johnson with Lester, and you've got the Red Sox, too.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Whoever makes it into the playoffs, I think all the excitement will be on the AL side. It is nearly a foregone conclusion that whoever winds up with the AL pennant will defeat any NL opponent in the World Series, considering how thoroughly the AL dominated the NL in interleague play this year.
The White Sox barely managed to pull out a split of their series with the Royals, holding on for a 5-4 win. The Tigers defeated the Rangers, with Ken Rogers finally getting the victory he has deserved for his last two starts. With the bases loaded and none out in the sixth inning, Leyland brought in Joel Zumaya. He walked the first batter, forcing in a run. Then he got three straight batters on strikeouts or popups, on fastball after fastball 100, 101, and even 102 mph, with a few 88 mph changeups and breaking balls mixed in for shock value. That is what a manager loves to have, a pitcher he knows he can turn to who will stop the opposition cold, getting strikeouts or popups or weak grounders. Then Fernando Rodney pitched a scoreless inning, and Todd Jones closed it out. The Tigers won 4-2. In the dugout after finishing the seventh inning and helping to preserve Rogers' win, Zumaya reportedly said to Rogers, "I've got your back, Buddy!" Then Rogers gave Zumaya's leg a friendly swipe with his glove and said "Thanks."
This is what has really distinguished the Tigers this year, their excellent pitching staff, both starting and relief. Meanwhile, Mike Maroth is close to returning to the starting lineup. He was winning virtually every start early in the year, until he had to have surgery to remove bone chips in his elbow. Zach Miner was called up from the minors to take his place in the rotation, and responded with a win streak of his own. Leyand has said that when Maroth returns to the lineup, he will probably go to a six-man rotation, so everyone will be plenty rested for September and October.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yow. The Yankees and Red Sox pitching staffs are going to be in shreds by the end of this series...
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
On the bright side, now Yankees fans might stop whining about how their outfield injuries are worse than our entire pitching staff (Clement, Wells, DiNardo, Wakefield, Timlin, Foulke) getting beat up.
Lester, Declarmen, and Hansen might be ready to come up next year, but now is not the time to have three 22-year-olds (or a bunch of 40-year-olds or a bunch of waiver players from basement teams for that matter) leading our staff.
Luckily for the Tigers, the White Sox are getting beat up by the Twins, so losing three straight to Texas didn't hurt all that much.
If Boston can maybe pull out two victories this weekend, we might only be two or three games out of the WC at the end of this fiasco. Though I don't see things getting any better without live arms in the bullpen.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Yeah, well Frisco, losing three straight to the Rangers may not have been a disaster, but it did not feel good to us fans. And it would have been better if the Tigers could have gone into their four-game series starting tomorrow against the White Sox after a victory so they could feel better about themselves. Alas.
Both teams have been in a bit of a slump. In today's game, it looked like the Tigers were coming out of their slump when they scored six runs in the second inning. But they did not score any more in the game, and Tigers' starter Jeremy Bonderman, usually dominating, had a bad outing and was unable to hold the lead, and had to be removed in the fifth inning.
The Tigers announced today that they picked up Neifi Perez from the Chicago Cubs in a trade for minor league (single "A") catcher Chris Robinson. Trades are still allowed, they just have to pass waivers now. This one did. Perez is a second baseman who can also play short and third. He is intended to fill in for the injured Placido Polanco, who is expected to be out 4-6 weeks. When Polanco returns, Perez will be used as a utility infielder, who will play mainly when manager Jim Leyland wants to rest one of the starting infielders.
Posted by Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy (Member # 9384) on :
They must be rioting in Boston right now...
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yow, I totally didn't see a sweep happening. Wow.
It's probably no consolation, Frisco, but I don't feel safe about the Yankees in first unless they have a FIFTEEN-game lead over the Red Sox. (And even then, I'd still hope that the Red Sox would get the wild card, so that there can be another Yankees-Red Sox matchup in the postseason...)
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The five-game sweep by the Yankees of the Red Sox is just unbelievable. The Red Sox have just lost too many vital players to the DL. Even the pitchers who are still healthy, do not have the benefit of Veritek calling the pitches. Remember, it is usually the catcher that does this.
Well, last night the real Tigers and the real Justin Verlander showed up, the ones we have been following and cheering all season long. The Tigers scored early and often on Contreras, who gave them so much trouble when the teams met in Chicago. Verlander used his new big glove, which presumably made it harder for some White Sox to pick up when he changed his grip. He normally starts with a grip for a changeup, then changes it in his glove to throw a fastball or something else. It was suspected that some White Sox batters were picking up on this. He allowed only one run on five hits, going seven full innings. Then the manager apparently decided he had thrown enough pitches, and started the eighth inning with fireballer Joel Zumaya. Todd Jones closed out the ninth, to preserve the 7-1 victory, and Verlander's 15th win. Verlander's ERA dropped to 3.05. The Tigers made it look easy.
Tigers' ace Ken Rogers is the starter tonight (Tuesday), and will try for his 13th win. The Tigers currently have four starting pitchers with 11 or more wins, and if you add Mike Maroth's six wins to Zach Miner's seven wins he has gotten since filling in for Maroth when he had to have surgery to remove bone chips in his elbow, that makes five starters with 11 or more wins.
[ August 22, 2006, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Ken Rogers got his well-deserved 13th win as the Tigers won their 81st game by a score of 4-0, their 14th shutout, most in the majors. The team's pitching staff's ERA is below 4.00 as well. Rogers went seven innings, as did Verlander the previous day.
White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen got ejected early in the game for getting on the home plate umpire for his inconsistent strike zone. Watching from home, it certainly looked like he had a legitimate beef, but arguing ball and strike calls is not allowed. I imagine a lip reader would have had quite an exciting time as Guillen and the umpire went jaw to jaw there for a while.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Heh. That's pretty much always the case with Ozzie. I still prefer the old-fashioned staredown you get from Frank Robinson, though.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I wonder what language they cussed each other out in.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Rookie pitcher Zach Miner had to be taken out of the game in the second inning last night, after giving up three runs in the first inning followed by three runs in the second inning. After that, the White Sox only scored one more run, but the Tigers only managed to score five runs total, so lost 7-5. The same two teams have another game this afternoon, if the rain in the area allows it.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
When the Detroit sportscaster said he had highlights of the Tigers' Thursday afternoon game, another newscaster asked, "Are you sure there WERE highlights?" Chisox won, 10-0. There were highlights for Sox fans, of course.
Most notable for the Tigers was Sean Casey's 5-7-3 out. He hit a line drive that skipped off the third baseman's upraised glove. Casey thought the third baseman had caught it, and stopped. By the time he responded to everyone yelling at him to run, the left fielder had scooped up the ball and pegged it into first base for the putout. I mean, Sean Casey is slow of foot, but not that slow, to be thrown out at first from left field! It will be years before he lives that one down!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Very, very sad about all the Red Sox injuries
I know it's unlikely, but it'd be great if they can still come back to get the Wild Card...
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Still very sad about the Red Sox. Without them being close, this has been a pretty dull month... I mean, sure I'm looking forward to the Yankees being in the postseason, but cruising in their last month takes a lot of the fun out of it. (Whereas last year's was great when the division race came down to the last weekend's games...)
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
I don't think my White Sox are going to make it this year. Well, at least they won last year and the Cubs aren't even close. Somehow that makes me feel better. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Detroit Tigers must be living a charmed life. They lead the Twins by 1/2 game, then lose a game to the Orioles inwhich they had the lead going into the 8th inning, then lo and behold, the Twins and White Sox lose too!
The newscasters are saying the "magic number" for the Tigers to get into the post season is now four. They have nine more games to play (six against KC and three against Toronto. Basically all they have to do is beat out the White Sox, whom they lead by six games. Of course Tigers fans would all prefer that the Tigers win the division title, since they have lead the division for almost four months. But the pesky Twins are nipping at their heels.
Incredible what the Twins have accomplished, considering they are operating on a bargain basement budget! Their manager and coaching staff deserve real credit.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I'm going to a game on Sunday! Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
You're not in NY, are you?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I wish. Nope, the Yanks are in Tampa.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Holy crap, I just noticed that the Astros are still in this playoff hunt.
The Cards have dropped three in a row to the 'stros, and they face Clemens tonight. If they lose, their lead is cut to 3 1/2.
St. Louis has 3 games left against the streaking 1st place Padres and the suddenly surging Brew Crew, who took the series from them last week and are on the verge of sweeping 4 from the Giants who, before this week, entertained Wild Card dreams.
Houston gets to go to Atlanta and Pittsburgh. Both are playing decent ball, relatively, yet still remain in second to last in their respective divisions. They also have one makeup game vs. Philly.
And with Philly currently in the WC lead, do the Mets really want to face Oswalt, Petitte, and Clemens in a five-game series?
Um, no.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Tigers clinched today.
6 games left to win the central. Go Tigs!
[ September 24, 2006, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Due to the Tigers' recent win streak (after sweeping KC), they now once again have the best won-lost record in all of Major League Baseball. It kind of tells you how much the Tigers want to win, by their scoring ten runs in the first inning of Saturday's game, then scoring nine runs in the second inning of Sunday's game. They kept on scoring more runs throughout both games, as well.
They have clinched a place in the playoffs, at least as Wild Card. But they lead the Twins by a game and a half, and still have it in their reach to win the Central Division title outright.
It is a real contest down to the wire for the division title. The Tigers are 7-3 in their last ten games, and the Twins are 7-3 in their last ten games. Six more games to go! If the Tigers can win all of their remaining games, they will have 100 wins for the season.
If the Tigers win the division title, they will play the Oakland A's in the first round of the playoffs. If they only win the Wild Card, then they will play the New York Yankees in the first round of the playoffs.
I think the Yankees are the most dangerous opponent. I would rather let the Twins take on the Yankees in the first round, and hope that the Twins pull an upset and beat them. The Tigers have had an easier time beating the Twins this year.
Looking at how the AL dominated the NL teams this year in the interleague games, as well as in the All-Star game, I think it is likely the AL team will defeat the NL team in the World Series. Of course, anything can happen in any given seven game series.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm betting the Tigers pull off a Central win.
3 of those six games are against KC again, as are 3 of Minnesota's.
But our other 3 games are against Toronto, whereas theirs are againt the ChiSox. To be frank, if we assume all those KC games are a win for both of us, then it comes down to our games against Toronto against their games against the ChiSox. And we being 1 and a half games up, we actually have a one game cushion in there in case we lose.
I like our chances.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I heard that a couple of days ago, Tigers' manager Jim Leyland walked into the clubhouse and said, "I have an announcement to make. Maggs' barber has died."
Magglio Ordonez, for those who don't know, said back in Spring Training that he was not going to cut his hair during the baseball season--and now his curly hair is getting pretty big and bushy. This is quite a contrast to the likes of Jeremy Bonderman and Placido Polanco, who have their hair shaven as close as billiard balls.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
It's fun watching the Astros go after the Cards. Astros might pull off a win tonight, and keep the chance for a tie...
Not excited about the Padres and the Dodgers both making the playoffs, since I think of southern California as being a soulless hellhole, oh well.
Ooh, Astros just scored another 2 runs, 5-2 now... Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I'm not sure why I'm rooting for the Tigers and the Astros to win their divisions, but I am.
And I love how people were saying two months ago that the Yankees wouldn't even make the postseason, and now they have the best record in baseball. (Something Mets fans don't seem to have noticed, yet.)
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Well, the Tigers had every chance to win the division, but at the end had to settle for the wild card. I don't give them much chance against the Yankees, who won their division going away, even without two key players--who have now returned to the lineup.
The Tigers will have to ask themselves a few questions, and hopefully by next season will come up with some answers for how they can be just a little bit better and pull out those games that hang in the balance a little more often. The Tigers can say that adversity is character-building. So now they should be a team of characters!
Despite the fact that the Tigers' pitching staff is so often praised--and indeed it does have the lowest ERA of pitching staffs in the American League--still, I think the main thing the Tigers need is to improve their pitching, since that is what let them down most often in the crucial games toward the end of the season.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Yay Twins!!! (and yay Royals!)
An absolutely unbelievable season.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Camus, what the Twins have done (so far) is made all the more notable by the fact that they have been operating on a limited budget. Tigers' owner, pizza billionaire mike Illitch, has been very generous with his checkbook the past few years, signing the likes of Pudge Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, etc. And nobody outspends the Yankees' William Steinbrenner, who year after year fields the best team money can buy. And yet here are the Twins, in the playoffs with the big spenders.
As for the KC Royals, I guess they figured they had nothing to lose, all the pressure was off, and they were able to play like there was no tomorrow with wild abandon. They made some very bad plays now and then in the field, but they certainly scored a ton of runs, enough to make up for all the miscues.
That suggests something concerning the Tigers as they take on the Yankees. Pretty much everyone regards the Yankees as the best team in baseball, the one with the greatest depth. Lots of people expect the young, inexperienced, and choke-prone Tigers to get swept. But they may be in a position somewhat like the Royals, and can play loose and maybe even over their heads at times, and could surprise the Yankees just as the Royals surprised the Tigers.
Then with a surprise Tigers' series victory over the Yankees, and assuming that the Twins can put away the "A's" in short order, then the showdown for the AL pennant would be decided in a series between the Tigers and Twins. Somehow, that seems to be the way it should be. Most fitting.
Fans of the pinstripes can console themselves on how decisively they trounced their perennial foe, the Boston Red Sox, this season. But the real action is back where it was all season long, in the American League Central, where both the division title and the AL wild card came from, and where last year's World Series victors, the Chicago White Sox, finished a respectable third.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
You a funny man!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Will the Tigers beat the Yankees? Probably not, but I think they'll give them a bloody nose, and I think head to head they would have beaten the Twins or Oakland.
But who cares? The Tigs made the playoffs! All bets are off now. No one expects anything from us, there's no pressure as far as I'm concerned. Play hard, we'll be back next year. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yay! Nose bloodied!
Tigers take one in Brooklyn, and the series is 1-1! Now it's a best of three, with two in Detroit. Like I said before, we probably aren't going to win, but we're going to have a blast losing with style!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
It's fun watching commentators predict who's going to win the playoffs, and then seeing just how wrong they are. Like the A's and the Cards were both supposed to be underdogs... and they're both winning 2-0...
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers-Yankees game two was a great demonstration by the Tigers of how good a team they can be--with a starter (rookie Justin Verlander) who threw 101 mph fastballs, followed by rookie Joel Zumaya in relief who threw 103 mph fastballs one after the other to plain blow away the Yankee batters. His final pitch for his final strikeout was 101 mph. I guess that was his "changeup."
Verlander's only mistake was an inside pitch that got hit out for a three-run homer. But for that one mistake, he and the relief staff would have gotten a shutout. The Tigers hit Mussina reasonably well, and fielded well. Great game by the underdog, against a team with a lineup consisting entirely of All-Stars. And in Yankee Stadium, no less. This was Verlander's first start in Yankee Stadium.
As Manager Jim Leyland said after the game, they proved that they really were a good enough team to be in the playoffs, which some people had questioned.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yankee Stadium shmadium. As Leyland said, the only reason people are afraid of Yankee stadium is because the Yankees play there. There's nothing inherently scary or difficult about it.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
I think the Tigers need to do more than win one game to prove they belong. I mean, lots of people took a game from the Yanks over the course of a series this season. Not a lot of them won the actual series, though.
That said, I love watching an underdog win. I hope they pull out two more. Randy's pitching game three, so I think there's a good shot they'll get one more right there.
And the A's...man, it's too bad they lost Mark Ellis yesterday. I still think they're gonna pull this ALDS out, but they're gonna need to be firing on all cylinders if the Yanks get by Detroit. If Detroit wins, it'll be a nice ALCS full of pitcher's duels.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: I think the Tigers need to do more than win one game to prove they belong. I mean, lots of people took a game from the Yanks over the course of a series this season. Not a lot of them won the actual series, though.
We won a buttload of games, and we ARE there. So far as I'm concered, we've already met the set requirements for proving we belong there. If we lose the rest of our games, we still belonged there.
If the Yankees lose the next two to the Tigers, will that prove they DON'T belong there?
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
Detroit is going to be crazy this weekend. Only problem is that Saturday's game is on the same time as the UM/MSU game. How could they do that?
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:We won a buttload of games, and we ARE there. So far as I'm concered, we've already met the set requirements for proving we belong there. If we lose the rest of our games, we still belonged there.
If the Yankees lose the next two to the Tigers, will that prove they DON'T belong there?
Sure, they've met the requirements, but by "belonging" I mean that they're contenders, and one of the four best teams. I mean, would someone else be doing a better job were they in the postseason? Who knows...but since the ASB, the Yanks have played 12 games better, the Twins 12 also, the A's 10, the Angels 10, and the Blue Jays 1. That's 5 teams playing better baseball than the Tigers did for the entire second half of the season.
Sure, a fantastic first half saved them from a sub-.500 second half, but that doesn't mean that I don't get to speculate that if, gosh darn it, the Yankees didn't get to play a team that has been a little worse than mediocre for the last three months, would they have a harder time waltzing into the ALCS? Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Funny, if all the teams that did so great in the second half had done better than the Tigers in the first half, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I repeat my question, and modify it, if the Yanks lose to the Tigers (which I've said before, is far less than likely) does that mean that they don't belong in the post season? They'll have lose to an inferior club, and they obviously couldn't have been one of the four best teams if they lost to the lil ole Tigs.
And yet looking at the Yanks' roster, their All Star status, and their record, who could argue that they DON'T belong? Somewhere in there, I think we have to come to the conclusion that the question of belonging is pretty silly.
I think the Tigers are going to lose, though I think it will go five games. But if someone were to seriously ask the question, "do the Tigers belong in the post-season?" then I'd have to answer with an emphatic yes.
And:
We're 5-4 vs. Oakland for the season. We're 11-8 vs Minnesota for the season. We're 3-5 vs. LA for the season. We're 3-3 vs. Toronto for the season. We're 2-5 vs. New York for the Season.
So, we're tied with Toronto, who didn't make the playoffs, and over the season we're better than Oakland and Minnesota. We also took two, and a post season game against what is arguably the best team in baseball. You can't judge whether a team belongs by leaving out their first steps on the road there, you have to look at the entire journey to October.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:Funny, if all the teams that did so great in the second half had done better than the Tigers in the first half, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
So you're saying that teams who start fast and fizzle down the stretch, losing what was at one point a double digit lead, are going to be as potent in the playoffs as a team that came together down the stretch, clicked on all cylinders, and got better, overall?
quote:We're 5-4 vs. Oakland for the season. We're 11-8 vs Minnesota for the season. We're 3-5 vs. LA for the season. We're 3-3 vs. Toronto for the season. We're 2-5 vs. New York for the Season.
Yeah, that's great. And since the ASB, they're
6-7 vs. Chicago 2-1 vs. Oakland 4-7 vs. Minnesota 1-2 vs. NY 1-2 vs. LA 1-2 vs. Toronto
And again I say, I'm not disputing that they deserve to be there, just whether they're one of the best teams anymore. Sure, their ace took a game from a struggling-as-of-late Mike Mussina.
The Yanks have nothing to prove. Of course they deserve to be there. They started the season well and finished better. There was no last-minute collapse that makes me wonder if they're out of luck and out of gas.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
When you get right down to it, determining which team is really better than another can be very problematic. If you compare lineups, no one can compare to the All-Star lineup of the Yankees--every player in the lineup has been an All-Star, many of them multiple times. But you also have to compare pitching staffs, because good pitching will stop good hitting. No team in baseball had better starting or relief pitching staffs than the Tigers.
By the way, Frisco, when determing who won a marathon race, no one cares who won the first 13.1 miles, or who won the second 13.1 miles. All that matters is who came out ahead at the end. It does seem interesting, at least, that the Tigers led the division and had the best record in all of baseball for over 130 days, and only faded to 1/2 game behind in their division, and two games behind the Yankees for best record in all of baseball, in the last day or so.
Technically Kenny Rogers, not Justin Verlander, is the "Ace" of the Tigers' starters. He started opening day, and he has the most wins for the season. It will be interesting to see how he does tonight against the Yankees, though. Power pitchers do better against the Yankees, and Rogers is not a power pitcher. Nor has he done well in the past against the Yankees. He is also 0-3 with an 8.85 ERA in nine playoff appearances.
He will be going against the Yankees' Randy Johnson, one of the game's revered pitchers--but Johnson has not pitched since Sept. 23 because of a herniated disk, and he is 43 years old. He is 0-7 in the Division Series since 1997.
Jeremy Bonderman is scheduled to pitch for the Tigers on Saturday. He used to be the Ace of the staff, before Rogers and Verlander came along. Bonderman does have good stuff, with a fastball in the 93-95 mph range (occasionally up to 97), and has continued to show improvement this year over previous years. When he is really "on," he is as good as any pitcher on the team. He should have had as many wins as Verlander this year, except that the team for some reason happened to give him little run support during many of his starts.
He will be opposed by the Yankee's Jaret Wright (11-7, 4.49 ERA). Wright is 3-5 in his postseason career. However, all of those wins came in 1997 with Cleveland. He went 0-3 with the Indians in 1998-99, then 0-2 in two postseasons with the Braves.
[ October 06, 2006, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
You're missing my point Frisco. It's not that the first half is more important than the second, it's that the second isn't more important than the first when it comes down to who "deserves" to be there.
If the first half of the season doesn't matter, why do they play it? Why not cut the season in half, start it off with an all star game and go from there?
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Ashes! Ashes! All is ashes...
(rummages around for sackcloth)
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Yankees lose again...I love it
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Congratulations Tiger fans. That was some fantastic pitching.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Naturally, I will support Lyr in what he has to say. He is, after all, a fellow Tigers fan. So I would be more than a little biased.
My favorite teams: Tigers, Braves, and anyone playing the Yankees.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
From someone born and raised in Boston - THANK YOU DETROIT!!!
Keep playin' well...
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Wow, even I did not expect the Tigers to win in four. How can you not be in awe of a Yankee lineup of nothing but All-Stars, most of them multiple times? But good pitching stops good hitting, and Verlander was good, while Kenny Rogers and Jeremy Bonderman pitched the best games of their careers. Joel Zumaya was perfect, and Todd Jones was perfect. After the country got a good look at the Tigers team at its best, some people probably wonder how they ever lost a single game during the season. Of course, they weren't always that good. There was the second half fade (which closely parallelled the time that Placido Polanco was out with a separated shoulder), and the tragic letdown after the Tigers had clinched at least a Wild Card position. But when the time came to rise to the occasion in post season play against the awesome New York Yankees, they had the resources to do it, with convincing decisiveness.
What was wrong with the Yankees? For all their high-priced position players, they skimped on their pitching. They definitely did not have the best pitching that money can buy. They ran into the team that had the pitching staff with the best ERA in MLB, and they were overmatched and totally dominated in all but the first game in NY.
Does anyone doubt that the Tigers deserve to be in the post season playoffs now?
I loved the way the Tigers came out of the clubhouse, back onto the field with their bottles of champagne, and celebrated with fans, slapping their hands and spraying them with champagne--which they all sought for and loved to receive, despite the 55 degree weather. (Only Kenny Rogers would dare to empty a bottle of champagne on a cop--right on the flat top of his hat. But Rogers also gave him a hug and the cop had a big grin on his face.) I note too with pride that fans were well-behaved and did not run out onto the field.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
The Yankees didn't deliberately skimp on pitching . . . there just wasn't a big name free-agent pitcher available. And it's pretty clear that Randy Johnson was a bad choice, driven by the Red Sox being just a little too in our heads. We bet on him solving all our pitching problems and being our next Roger Clemens, but he's too old, and just not someone who can deal with the whole Big Apple mentality well.
It was cool to see the Tigers come back out and celebrate with the fans, and I actually did notice that the fans behaved well. I didn't think that handful of people could keep everyone from rushing the field after beating the Yankees in four.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Go Tigs
I've never seen that kind of energy in the Motor City before. Not when the Pistons won, not when the Wings won, not when the Lions...one a single game....
It was electric, like we'd just won a war. Felt great.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
A-Rod getting paid millions for going 1-14 in the offseason didn't help. The rest of the all-star bats going cold didn't help either.
Posada and Jeter were both .500, but two guys can't carry a team.
So much for another subway series. Go Mets, I guess.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
As a NYC bartender who wears his Red Sox hat every day to work, I'd like to thank the Tigers for making tonight's shift very pleasant.
This was the Tigers team that deserved to be in the playoffs. Why they took the last three months of the season off, I don't know...maybe they wanted to lose home-field so they could celebrate in Detroit?
Now the real test will be coming up. Pitching vs. Pitching in a 7-game series. They'll probably, again, not go ace-to-ace in Game 1, since it'd be in their better interest to let Verlander rest. So they'd better be watching some Barry Zito film, or they'll be down 0-1 again, with no Randy or Jaret in sight to give the offense some momentum.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Frisco, Leyland keeps saying he intends to start Nate Robertson in the first game. He might keep the same rotation he did in the Yankees series, where Verlander would pitch in the second game, then Rogers in the third, then Bonderman in the fourth. Nate, properly inspired by the examples that have been set by his fellow starters, could pitch a really good game. He has in the past. But he has to be really "on" to pitch well.
This could backfire, though, if it goes to seven games, because you want one of your top pitchers to be able to come back and pitch again, which he might not be able to if they start out with Robertson. Nate could surprise us though, and pitch as well as Bonderman did. But we really would want the pitcher with the most stuff, Verlander, to be in position to pitch twice if needed.
Icarus, where the Yankees need to invest in pitching is in their farm system. What the Tigers have done under Dombrowski's management is do all they can to draft top pitching prospects, and emphasize pitching in their farm system. That way, they can be assured of producing true pitching stars like Verlander and Zumaya, and also have plenty of trade bait to acquire good hitters and position players in trades, since everyone wants pitchers.
The Yankees have gone after hitters and position players, and hoped they could trade for good pitchers or acquire them off of waivers. That doesn't work, because quality pitchers are fewer and more at a premium. Position players, even those who can hit, are a dime a dozen.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:This could backfire, though, if it goes to seven games, because you want one of your top pitchers to be able to come back and pitch again, which he might not be able to if they start out with Robertson. Nate could surprise us though, and pitch as well as Bonderman did. But we really would want the pitcher with the most stuff, Verlander, to be in position to pitch twice if needed.
*shrug* They've got four decent(at least) starters. If it comes down to elimination, they can always pitch someone on three days rest.
Having your ace pitch the first game is most important for teams with really only three playoff-caliber starting pitchers, that way, they can pitch games 1, 4, and 7. Not that they'd do something like that with a young arm live Verlander.
If Robertson completely embarasses himself, the rotation could, in theory, be Robertson, Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman, Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman.
That's pretty doubtful, though.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
May I just say two words?
"Go Cardinals!"
Talk about terrible end of season, they almost broke the record for throwing a season at the end, yet once in it, they seem to be set to go all the way.
Look out Mets, here we come.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Frisco, I guess basically you are right. The Tigers do have four good starting pitchers. During the regular season, Rogers was 17-8 with an ERA of 3.84; Verlander was 17-9 with an ERA of 3.63; Bonderman was 14-8 with an ERA of 4.08; and Robertson was 13-13 with an ERA of 3.84. It should be noted that Bonderman and Robertson even more so had several quality starts each which they could have won, if they had gotten decent run support. Robertson was actually a more consistently good pitcher than Bonderman (note Robertson's lower ERA), even though everyone concedes Bonderman has better stuff. Robertson did not impress anyone in his playoff start against the Yankees. But he is capable of pitching better.
But suppose the Tigers-A's series goes to six or seven games. If you want to bring in the best pitcher with the best stuff, that is Verlander. It should be noted, however, that during the regular season, Rogers was the real stopper, who got wins to end losing streaks when the other pitchers were in the doldrums.
By the way, Nate Robertson is the guy who invented "Gum Time," to the delight of fans and the distributor of "Big League Chew." Early in the season, cameras showed Robertson stuffing his mouth with chewing gum, with teammates laughing at him hysterically, then adopting the same tradition as "Gum Time" seemed to produce some big rallies. Works better even than rally hats. All season long, the Tigers have been a loose, fun-loving bunch.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
The Tigers have now won seven straight playoff games. That is a record for the Tigers' franchise. In fact, six in a row had been a franchise record.
So, let's see. The Twins beat the Tigers by half a game for the Central Divisio title, so the Tigers had to settle for the Wild Card berth in the playoffs. Then the Oakland A's swept the Twins in three straight games, while the Tigers beat the Yankees in four games. Then the Tigers sweep the A's in four straight games.
So how do you figure who is really the best team in baseball? I say it is either the Tigers, or the Yankees.
Considering how greatly one-sided were the results of the interleague games played during the season, I think there is no possibility that any team in the National League can compare to either the Yankees or the Tigers.
This ultimately leads to the question, what is wrong with the National League? What are they doing wrong? They lose to AL teams in interleague play, they lose in the All-Star game (and have for many years running, now). Also, the Tigers had a better team pitching ERA than any team in the National League, despite the fact that the pitchers do not bat in the American League, so you would think AL pitchers would have a harder time, having to pitch to good-hitting Designated Hitters instead of weak-hitting pitchers. Why does the AL appear to have better pitching? Do AL teams like the Yankees and Tigers spend more money than teams in the NL to acquire top talent?
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Tigers spend more money? When did this happen? We are playing with heart this year. The Yankees are the ones who buy the pennant.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Stan, the Tigers have not been ostentatious about it, but they have been spending pretty freely, acquiring the likes of Pudge Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, and Placido Polanco. They have also been paying premium prices to draft top pitching prospects for their farm system. Tigers' owner Mike Illitch is a multi-billionaire, as is the Yankees' William Steinbrenner. (Illitch also owns the Detroit Red Wings hockey team. He made his fortune with Little Caesar's Pizza.) But the Tigers have been getting more bang for their buck, probably because, as I mentioned earlier, they have been focusing on drafting and developing pitching in their farm system. This gives them plenty of star pitchers, and allows them to have extra pitchers as trade bait to obtain whatever other players they want--since every team wants pitchers, and position players are a dime a dozen.
Much of the Tigers' team has been developed in their own farm system, so many of them--especially the rookies--have that hunger to prove themselves and find out just how good a team they can be together. Virtually the entire Yankees team has been acquired, not home-grown in their own farm system. If another team has a player who really hurts them, they buy him, like they did with Johnny Damon. So they have a lineup that top to bottom literally consists of All-Stars. But somehow the focus, the drive, the real hunger, is not there. What does it matter if you fail to advance in the playoffs, if you're still going to get your multi-million dollar paycheck, and you're still going to be honored as the great Derek Jeter, or Johnny Damon, or Alex Rodriguez, or Hideki Matsui (who has his own following back in Japan, who nicknamed him "Godzilla"). These are good players, with the drive of a professional to perform up to their ability. But you have to want more than that in order to win, to give you the kind of focus you need to hit that game-winning walk-off homer in the bottom of the ninth against the opposing teams' closer.
[ October 15, 2006, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, the Tigers DO spend a lot, but NOT more than either of the teams they could face in the playoffs.
I think the better comparison is the US Basketball team compared to the teams of the rest of the world. You can't just throw a bunch of all stars together and expect them to play well with no team chemistry. US players are the best in the world, but without the chemistry, they aren't going to do well as a team that has a dream to work towards, like Greece for example.
For a sense of perspective:
MLB TEAM PAYROLL (US$)
1. NY Yankees $198,662,180 2. Boston $120,100,524 3. LA Angels $103,625,333 4. ChiSox $102,875,667 5. NY Mets $100,901,085 6. LA Dodgers $99,176,950 7. Chic. Cubs $94,841,166 8. Atlanta $92,461,852 9. Houston $92,101,503 10. San Fran $90,862,064 11. Seattle $87,924,500 12. Philly $87,148,333 13. St. Louis $86,912,217 14. Detroit $82,302,069 15. Baltimore $72,585,712 16. Toronto $71,915,000 17. San Diego $68,897,179 18. Texas $65,129,570 19. Minnesota $63,810,048 20. Washington $63,267,500 21. Oakland $62,322,054 22. Cincinnati $59,162,015 23. Arizona $58,884,226 24. Cleveland $56,795,867 25. Milwaukee $50,540,000 26. KC Royals $47,294,000 27. Pittsburgh $46,867,750 28. Colorado $40,791,000 29. Tampa Bay $35,417,967 30. Florida $14,344,500
No one can say that the Tigers bought their way into the World Series, not with any other currency than heart.
[ October 16, 2006, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Thanks for publishing that list, Lyrhawn. It is very interesting comparing the budgets of the various teams. Oakland gets the most credit for going so far with a lower budget than any other team in the playoffs. Minnesota's was almost as low. The Tigers' budget is about 50% greater than theirs; but less than half of the Yankees' budget. Obviously you need to spend a few bucks to have a winning team, but not necessarily the most bucks.
And just wait until the likes of Verlander and Zumaya and Guillen and Monroe and Polanco renegotiate their contracts. The Tigers' payroll will surely go up. But they can afford it, since they pretty much filled Comerica Park for every home game this year, in addition to televising every game.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
Re-reading the shortsighted, cliche, comments from Frisco above makes this past week and a half that much more enjoyable. When are you people going to learn? First the Pistons, now the Tigers. Don't underestimate the power of Detroit. Your lack of faith disturbs me.
And as far as the best team in baseball, you have to define your criteria. Best as in the best lineup of all star paid for hitting? Or best as in best team in 162 games? The Yankees as a team have a great chance of beating any single team in baseball in A game. However, the beauty of the game of baseball is that it all plays out over time. 162 games is a loooooong season. It's very hard for a team to win over a season like that as a fluke or pretneder. Something that got overlooked by the prognosticators was the fact that the Tigers maintained the best record in baseball for most of the season. You don't do that by accident, you do that because you are good.
In the end, it hardly matters what the general opinion is as to who is the best team. History doesn't remember that. History remembers who won the big prize, and all that counts is winning the World Series. The Yankees and their fans should know that by now.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:When are you people going to learn? First the Pistons, now the Tigers. Don't underestimate the power of Detroit. Your lack of faith disturbs me.
If I remember correctly, the Pistons bowed down to Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals in six games last year, not even making the NBA Championship despite being favorites and having the best record in the NBA
quote:Tigers' owner Mike Illitch is a multi-billionaire, as is the Yankees' William Steinbrenner.
I can only watch you call George Steinbrenner "William" so many times.... Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
And how many years in a row did they either make it to the Eastern Conference, or win the Eastern Conference, or win the Championships? If you ask me, the reason they "bowed" to Miami was they were tired. Saunders was playing their starters for too many minutes, without developing a strong potential bench, and the starters were worn out by the finals. Even with the loss if Ben Wallace, the Pistons are still a very strong team with a lot of heart, and their bench is strong, their young players are gaining experience and minutes, and have gotten in better shape in the off season.
The Pistons are in the hunt again this year, and I believe they schooled Miami in the offseason.
Illitch has a bunch of extra hockey money from the salary cap in the NHL, he can afford to throw an extra forty million or so around. Either way, they fall in the middle of the pack for spending, even after amping up spending by a very healthy margin in the last four years.
(I'm a little surprised to see any snark aimed towards the prohibitive favorites in a league (Pistons/NBA) after the pro-Yankees questioning anti-(ish) Tigers statements you made earlier)
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
A: The Pistons are not favorites this year. Opinion ranges from them finishing first to fourth...in their own division.
B: I'm not Pro-Yankees...hell, I'm a Red Sox fan. I merely expressed doubt that a team that finished the season 19-31 and lost a double digit division lead had anything left. And there's not a person out there who didn't have the same doubt. Or rather, I think it would be very naive not to.
Their offense is above average, but not spectacular. Their defense is servicable. What won it for them is their pitching, and that was what was sliding down the stretch. There's a long history of young pitchers not being able to handle the number of innings required in the Majors--and slipping late in the season--and old guys like Jones and Rogers (who's been horrid in the playoffs until this year) didn't have a much better prognosis.
But they pulled it out, and beat the Yankees with good pitching. Then they beat the A's with their bats. I'm happy for them. I'm glad they did it. Do you even know how badly I was hoping someone would beat the Yankees? I'm a Sox fan living in NYC.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: If I remember correctly, the Pistons bowed down to Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals in six games last year, not even making the NBA Championship despite being favorites and having the best record in the NBA
If I remember correctly, the Pistons beat the LA Chokers in a 5 game sweep in 2004 when no one gave them a chance to win 1 game. Pay attention.
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
quote:If I remember correctly, the Pistons beat the LA Chokers in a 5 game sweep in 2004 when no one gave them a chance to win 1 game. Pay attention.
You don't remember correctly. They won 4-1, it wasn't a sweep.
And plenty of people gave them a chance. They were by no means the favorite, but it's not like they were outmatched. They only won a couple fewer games than the Lakers in the regular season, that year, and they played in a much more difficult conference.
They never got the press the Lakers got, but if we're going to compare them to the Tigers, I know for a fact that they didn't tank it at the end of the season and limp into the playoffs.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Frisco: A: The Pistons are not favorites this year. Opinion ranges from them finishing first to fourth...in their own division.
They weren't the favorites last year? That's what I was referring to. They aren't favorites to win the whole thing this year, but I think fourth in their division is a joke, which I happily laughed at.
I think they're in the playoffs no doubt, maybe playing the Bulls in the first round, but no way to know for sure, either way I think they make it past the first round, and may or may not eke it past the second. But they whooped Miami something good the other night (pre-season sure, but they still did it). There's my pre-season guess for the year.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Can someone name me a team owner that isn't rich? I would just like to know. This way I can try and buy The Bears. Just so I can walk around saying "Da Bears." Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
Lyrhawn, I have no idea what you're trying to say about the Pistons...or which teams you're referring to. You started out talking about the Pistons of the early 00s but I assumed you were talking about last year. So I start talking about the Pistons of the 00s, and you switch back to talking about last year.
Not that I even understand the relevance to this conversation, either. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Frisco, Oops! George Steinbrenner! Well, I'm not a Yankee fan, obviously.
Sthl1, I notice you did not mention the Lions. They actually won a game last week!
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I don't think my White Sox are going to make it this year. Well, at least they won last year and the Cubs aren't even close. Somehow that makes me feel better. ![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
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