quote:

---

I have to wonder if taking this last chance to speak out againt the infringement civil liberities, the Iraq war, and the treatment of the poor and disenfranchised -- all things she spoke tirelessly against -- wasn't the best way to honor her memory.

---

quote:

---

But to go to a funeral to pay his respects to someone who had a huge impact on our country...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Megan:

Edited to add: And why on Earth would Carter be trying to score political points? He's not at all likely to be running for anything, ever again.

---

The fact that he isn't trying to "score points" for himself doesn't necessarily prevent him from doing so for others.
 

---

Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 
Judging by the responses here, I guess I must be in the minority in not being terribly upset by what I've seen of what went on at Mrs. King's funeral.

I've found it much more offensive when I've gone to funerals and the minister preaching the funeral has used the deceased's death to try to browbeat the attendees into conversion. I've even been to a couple of funerals where the preacher has actually extended an altar call. As far as I'm concerned, that is completely out of line.

I especially think it was apropos that the wiretapping issue was brought up, being that the Kings were wiretapped in the 1960s - although I suppose it would have been truth in advertising to point out that a Democratic attorney general (Bobby Kennedy) was the one to approve those particular wiretaps.

I also have to say that certain media pundits don't have much room to criticize the politicization of the funeral, considering that they didn't hesitate to proceed to use it for their own political purposes, just as they did after the Wellstone funeral.
 

---

Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Or, possibly, it was that he is personally outraged at what he sees as a moral and ethical lapse on the part of this administration and saw this as a rare opportunity to voice those concerns in a forum where he knew the head of this administration would hear them, and the audience reaction to them.

As this president seems unwilling to appear before a crowd that was not hand-picked to be supportive, I'm not sure I could have passed up the chance either.
 

---

Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 
Disgusting. Politics should never be brought up in a funeral. No matter what. It is tasteless, has no style, and is just plain rude to the person that you are there for.

The nerve.....
 

---

Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
 
I agree there, especially at a funeral that's so political in nature.

 

---

Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I had no problem with Carters' comments....they were on issues that have been raised recently reguarding civil rights issues.


That Rev was not only a poor poet (although his comment to Maya showed a sense of humor about that very fact ) but a complete ass.


Kwea
 

---

Posted by Silkie (Member # 8853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ricree101:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Megan:

Edited to add: And why on Earth would Carter be trying to score political points? He's not at all likely to be running for anything, ever again.

---

The fact that he isn't trying to "score points" for himself doesn't necessarily prevent him from doing so for others.

---

That's silly. Carter has never been a friend to the Clintons in the past, and I seriously doubt he said anything to benefit them. Since he left office Carter has been involved with charity work, like Habitat for Humanity, and involved in United Nations Elections monitoring.

The reason Carter hasn't been seen next to the Bushes and Clinton in recent times is that he disagrees with what is going on in today's government. In BOTH parties. And he says it out loud. He has a #1 best selling book on the shelves right now about the subject, and recently spoke about that book on Jon Stewart's show.

What Carter did was speak the truth about the hypocrisy in the room. He drew a parallel between the heavy handed FBI treatment of the Civil rights movement, in which CSK and her husband were illegally spied upon, and today's NSA scandal. Personally, I enjoyed the discomfort of the personage who does not allow dissent within his eyesight, being center stage to his own roast.

And I suspect Coretta Scott King would have enjoyed it too. She didn't think much of Bush either.
 

---

Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
We don't know what CSK would have thought of her funeral. I mean, except the Bill Clinton's possible plug for Hillary, this was of gathering of her friends allies and speaking passionately about issues she devoted her life speaking about. We don't know what she would have wanted, but I think that she got it, but then again, maybe she thinks that they should have spent the time talking about her love of gardening. It was a non-violent, passionate expression of the political climate from views that haven't been listened to.

If I were king of the world, I'd like to some sort of data surveying the people who were mad about this funeral, along with the people who were mad at Chis Rock's comments about black men not caring about the Oscars, and Howard Dean's comment about how most of the black people at the Republican leadership on conference were working at the hotel where the conference was held.

[ February 10, 2006, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 

---

Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 
It's weird reading the posts of people who think that political comments are ok to be made at a funeral. However, I just buried my grandmother a couple months back so it might just be me who thinks that it isn't quite the place for it. There is a line of respect drawn. It was crossed. You don't dredge through s&^% like that in a funeral, you just don't.
 

---

Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Maybe I need to sign a wavier form, because when I die, and if gallery of political figures find themselves at the podium of my publically televised funeral, I want them speaking to my issues.
 

---

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
*shrug* Death is the great equalizer. Everyone dies once, and people-especially public figures-get a great big heaping helping of 'free' press when they die. It's unseemly in my opinion for anyone to include such nakedly political speeches and such at a funeral-I rather think funerals should be related specifically to the sort of man or woman who died, their families and friends, and what motivated them in life.

Press-release political statements are quite different, but on the other hand, CSK was not known for her mild agreement with the status quo. It cannot be said that those who spoke politics at her funeral said things she would probably have disagreed with.

-----------

Once again, Irami, you insert racism into an issue which for many people has no racial overtones. People are testy about funerals. They don't like the image of people taking advantage of them-especially if the people taking advantage are taking shots at them. When you're king of the world , by all means please include data about people's reactions to Fred Phelps.
 

---

Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 

quote:

---

I rather think funerals should be related specifically to the sort of man or woman who died, their families and friends, and what motivated them in life.

---

quote:

---

Once again, Irami, you insert racism into an issue which for many people has no racial overtones.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
As long as those "many people" don't include Mrs. King, I'm not going to care. Funerals, marriages, and wills are some of the few public displays where the wishes of those involved trump the predilections of those who are watching. In other words, if Mrs. King would have approved the tenor of her funeral, it really doesn't matter that Bao is upset.

---

quote:

---

That's kind of a convenient stance to make for you isn't it? As for me, I rather doubt that she left a statement in her will to the effect that, "If that *$%$#$ Bush has the nerve to show up and pay his respects at my funeral, give him all you've got boys!"

---

quote:

---

It would have been better all around if the Speaker For The Dead could have spoken at her funeral.

It is not fitting, nor is it right, but it is consistant with her life, that at her funeral, dedicated to the mother, the friend, and the musician, that politics overshadows all.

---

quote:

---

"The struggle for equal rights is not over," Carter said. "We only have to recall the color of the faces of those in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi, those who were most devastated by [Hurricane] Katrina, to know that there are not yet equal opportunities for all Americans."

---

As far as this goes, I agree with Carter. And I don't think Bush is a racist. Or, at least, I don't think Bush is so abysmally idiotic as to implement some kind of plan whereby only white people would be saved. I just think Bush doesn't particularly care at all about the lower class. And since blacks are dispraportionately likely to be in the lower class...well you can see how that works out. I also suspect that Carter understands this. To me, this statement isn't targeting Bush anymore than it targets any one of us.

To everyone saying this this is so wrong utterly immoral behavior for a funeral, just a word of caution: you weren't there, you don't know what it was like. To start condemning people based on a less-than-one-page, quasi-editorial is very short sighteed.
 

---

Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
 
Well, I didn't realize that had become so politicized or a big deal on the news. I read some articles major news networks about it this afternoon, and it looks like a bunch of conservative pundits have stated a position similar to mine. So now that the lines of battle on the issue are drawn, again its Republicans vs. Democrats or liberals vs. conservatives and productive discussion has pretty much halted.

I don't think I'll be visiting the thread anymore, but thanks for everyone's feedback
 

---

Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
 
quitter.
 

---

Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 

quote:

---

It is possible that the people who arranged Mrs. King's funeral are more likely to know what she would have wanted than we are.

---

quote:

---

Bond, who has served as NAACP chairman since 1998, was teaching in Charlottesville Tuesday and told the approximately 300 students of his "History of the Civil Rights Movement" class why he chose not to attend King's funeral that day. According to several students in the class, Bond said he felt King would oppose the views concerning gay rights held by New Birth's senior pastor, Bishop Eddie Long.

In December 2004, Long and members of the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church held a march in favor of a constitutional ban on gay marriage, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

According to second-year college student Emily Frost, who attended the class Tuesday, Bond "said that he chose not to attend the funeral [because] during her life Coretta Scott King very much [pushed] for civil rights not just for African-Americans but also for gays and lesbians."

Frost said Bond explained his absence in terms of his desire to follow King's belief system.

"The church that the service was in has historically marched against gay rights and he felt that she had the choice to promote gay rights, and the church had the choice to go against them, and he was also using his liberty to not attend [something] she would be ashamed of," Frost said.

After the class, Bond discussed his absence in an e-mail to fourth-year College student Carmen Comsti, which gained wide circulation among members of the Queer Student Union. The Cavalier Daily later obtained a copy of the e-mail.

"Mrs. King was a strong supporter of gay and lesbian rights," Bond wrote in the e-mail. "Her husband was a strong believer in helping the poor and preached a theology of contempt for seekers of material goods -- and lived his life that way. The pastor of the church where she was funeralized led an anti-gay march through Atlanta -- sadly, Mrs. King's youngest daughter, an elder in his church, accompanied him. We cannot know what Mrs. King's wishes were for a funeral -- she probably had no choice about church or minister -- but I did have a choice -- and while I have an abiding respect for my former neighbor and friend, I chose not to be in that church."

---

quote:

---

"Mrs. King was a strong supporter of gay and lesbian rights," Bond wrote in the e-mail. "Her husband was a strong believer in helping the poor and preached a theology of contempt for seekers of material goods -- and lived his life that way. The pastor of the church where she was funeralized led an anti-gay march through Atlanta -- sadly, Mrs. King's youngest daughter, an elder in his church, accompanied him. We cannot know what Mrs. King's wishes were for a funeral -- she probably had no choice about church or minister -- but I did have a choice -- and while I have an abiding respect for my former neighbor and friend, I chose not to be in that church." [Emphasis added."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Juxtapose:

quote:

---

It would have been better all around if the Speaker For The Dead could have spoken at her funeral.

It is not fitting, nor is it right, but it is consistant with her life, that at her funeral, dedicated to the mother, the friend, and the musician, that politics overshadows all.

---

I think if someone had done a Speaking, and done a good job of it, people would be a lot more pissed off than they are now. I thought the point of a speaking was to accurately reflect the life of the deceased. If that's the case, then maybe our speakers did indeed capture her life, whatever was intended. At least, drawing from what Dan has said.

Furthermore, I see very little quoted in the article that's insulting to Bush. I see some critique, but the closest thing to a personal attack is reverend Lowery's remarks about "weapons of misdirection." And since HE apparantly actually knew King, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

quote:

---

"The struggle for equal rights is not over," Carter said. "We only have to recall the color of the faces of those in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi, those who were most devastated by [Hurricane] Katrina, to know that there are not yet equal opportunities for all Americans."

---

As far as this goes, I agree with Carter. And I don't think Bush is a racist. Or, at least, I don't think Bush is so abysmally idiotic as to implement some kind of plan whereby only white people would be saved. I just think Bush doesn't particularly care at all about the lower class. And since blacks are dispraportionately likely to be in the lower class...well you can see how that works out. I also suspect that Carter understands this. To me, this statement isn't targeting Bush anymore than it targets any one of us.

To everyone saying this this is so wrong utterly immoral behavior for a funeral, just a word of caution: you weren't there, you don't know what it was like. To start condemning people based on a less-than-one-page, quasi-editorial is very short sighteed.

---

Well said.

This was not your grandmother's funeral. This was the funeral of a great Civil Rights leader. She lived history.

Coretta Scott King chose her life in the spotlight when she married Martin Luther King. She became more than "the mother, the friend, and the musician" when her husband was assassinated. CSK could have retired to the fireside, raised her children, and stepped out of the spotlight. That is not what she chose to do. She chose to be a leader in the Civil Rights movement, first alongside MLK, and then in his place. I believe it is a fitting tribute to her to speak of the issues she cared about with the same passion that she exhibited in her life.
 

---

Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I watched the thing in real time, and saw it for myself, that you very much.


Also, I lean towards the Dem side of the asile, although not completely, so saying this is divided along party lines is simply wrong.


I think some of it were not shots at Bush, per say....Carter's remarks were spot on, not about what happened but about the divisive nature of the aftermath of Katrina....and some of it was a cheap shot taken at someone who couldn't defend himself without looking sleezy.


If Bush had spoken in defence of himself he would have looked like a cad, completely insensitive, and I think that the people who insulted him knew that, and were perhaps hoping for him to not realize it.

So they took some cheap, divisive shots at him.


Think about this...when is the last time anyone here heard me DEFEND Bush? It has been a while, to be sure.
 

---

Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Silkie:

This was not your grandmother's funeral. This was the funeral of a great Civil Rights leader. She lived history.

---

quote:

---

Think about this...when is the last time anyone here heard me DEFEND Bush?

---

It has been awhile. I'm just not going to offer that much of an opinion on him. Because personally, I like him. He's raised my paycheck quite a few times since taking office. Granted, I'm still living paycheck to paycheck.

</derail>
 

---

Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
It has happened before, although rarely.


 

---

Posted by Silkie (Member # 8853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stan the man:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Silkie:

This was not your grandmother's funeral. This was the funeral of a great Civil Rights leader. She lived history.

---

Yes, that is true and they should have stuck to it, her life that is, her history.

---

quote:

---

She was a victim of FBI wiretaps. Imagine her take on today's NSA story, after her personal experience with government surveillance.

---

quote:

---

Bernice King, the youngest daughter of Coretta Scott King, delivered the eulogy:

It wasn't the stroke that took her, in the natural sense of the word. But it was the complications from ovarian cancer which caused respiratory pneumonia that took her. The Lord had me look back on that and he took me to a scripture. Where a man of the Pharisee’s name Nicodemus. A ruler of the Jews, came to Jesus at nighttime. And he said, “Rabbi, we know that you’re a teacher come from God. No one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you unless one is born again, he cannot-- she cannot see the Kingdom of God.” I said, “God, why are you taking me there?”

He said, “Because it is no accident or mistake that the very thing that took your mother out here, ovarian cancer, is a message that emerges from that kind of death for people all over the nation for such a time as this. For you see, her cancer, in other words, was concentrated in the reproductive area. The reproductive system.” And God took me back to there and he showed me how the cancer was growing in that reproductive area and it was beginning to affect other organs in that vicinity. He reminded me, he said, your mother passed away of complications from ovarian cancer, respiratory pneumonia, because right now my Earth, my world, my nations are on the verge of losing and dying and being overtaken with respiratory pneumonia failure because of complications from reproductive cancer. And those complications are hindering the ability for a new birth.

See what God is saying to us today through the transition of Coretta Scott King is that we, here in this world right now, are suffering from complications, of cancer from materialism and greed and selfishness and arrogance, and elitism, and poverty, and racism, and perversion, and obscenity, and misogyny, and idolatry, and militarism, and violence, and it is a cancer that's eating away at the very essence and nation of what God created of human kind to be-- for he created us! To have ruler ship and dominion in the Earth and not allow the Earth to dictate to us. But now what has happened is that the very Earth, the very creation that he put us in charge of is now controlling us. And instead of us reproducing other people who look like God, who talk like God, who act like God, who think like God, who do business like God, who govern like God, who entertain like God, we are not reproducing anything because the cancer is eating away at us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan_raven:
It would have been better all around if the Speaker For The Dead could have spoken at her funeral. But that wasn't available.

Instead we must understand Mrs. King's life. She was not a firebrand of political activism. She married into that life out of love for her husband.
[...]

After Reverend King's death she was pushed into the role of political firebrand as a queen is pushed into a thrown after the death of her husband.

Some tried to make her a figurehead, a puppet to dance to their tunes.

She stopped them, only by reluctantly taking on the mantle of political firebrand herself.

She fought for a day of celebration for her late husband, and for equality, both politically and economically, for her people. She hated war and fought to end those we find ourselves in.

She was a musician. Yet from her meeting of Martin Luther King Jr her life changed, swept up into the whirlwind that was his existance.

It is not fitting, nor is it right, but it is consistant with her life, that at her funeral, dedicated to the mother, the friend, and the musician, that politics overshadows all.

Now I appreciate what President Carter said about the wire tapping. Not as a put down to President Bush, but as a reminder. Her was a great woman being put to rest who suffered under abuses of power like those being resurrected. Before we commit ourselves to defending them, we need to realize to what errors they may lead.

---