I've noticed twice today people have made references to the "Jews are good with money/cheap" stereotype. From what I can tell, both times the stereotype was referenced by Jews. If you belong to a particular cultural, religious, or racial group, does that make it okay for you to use those kinds of stereotypes?
I've had Jewish friends who joke constantly about the "cheap Jew" stereotype, and I've had other Jewish friends who get very angry at other Jews for joking in that fashion. I personally have cracked jokes about me being WASP-y. The 'n' word is commonly used in songs by black rappers, but never by a rapper of any other race. For Mormons, is it okay for other Mormons to joke about, say, having more than one wife (or is this completely non-analagous to the other two examples above)?
What do you think?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Both remarks were by the same poster, and he has been called out on it, and has apologised. I'd rather not foster hard feelings, so all is forgiven and we can all happily get along in my favorite playground.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
You are a far better person than I Tante. Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Well, okay, my question still stands. I'm not trying to blow something up...this wasn't about one incident. In my RL experience, sometimes people make stereotypical jokes regarding their race/ethnicity/religion. Sometimes it seems to be okay, sometimes it doesn't.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: You are a far better person than I Tante.
How true! Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Our dearest friend Raia seems to have a problem with this.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Don't gloat, it takes away from your betterness. Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
...with what? Stereotyping? Or my thread?
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
If you were talking to me, she has a problem with self stereotypes. She has done it a number of times within the past couple of days.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Ha Ha Ha, very funny. I know, know. I say it's fine, but many others do not agree. I think it is completely fine to make fun of someone as long as you are not trying to hurt them. Then, YOU should be made fun of for making fun. If it hurts people, apologize and stop, that's the way I work.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I do not like stereotyping, but perhaps it makes people feel comfortable to joke with each other about stuff like cheapness, and welfare and jello as they are all in the same group and have simular experiences. Sort of like black folks joking about nappy hair or something...
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Actually, I made one sterotype, and said Jews don't like Hitler, which one can assume is true.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Monotones Against Rude Stereotyping (M.A.R.S.)
I'm here to REPRESENT!
(*bangs fist on chest twice, then extends arm in a peace sign*)
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
quote: Jews don't like Hitler
Let's hope this can also be said about the rest of humanity, not just Jews...
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Hopefully...
<fully edited>
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
*laughs at Steves halarious joke*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
*laughs at Reticulum's pointless post*
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Yes, yes. Actually steve, I tried to post it once, then clicked it again. Interesting, interesting.
You win this time Dr. Jones!
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I don't know, after all there are still white power movements.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Monotone Pride! (I'm a minority, peoples!)
Edit: See, I can laugh at myself.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
*laughs at Steve's response to Reticulum's pointless point*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Reticulum, let us forgot the laughing for a moment and get back on track, say? It wasn't that funny, and isn't still that funny.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Well, for me it's a bit different. I play with gay stereotypes for fun, and my close friends do the same with me, even (when we're arguing) calling me by some of the worse words for gay.
The difference is I know it's all in jest and it doesn't matter to them, because these are people who have stood by me and supported me through all the difficult times associated with being gay. Now, when an outsider tries to do the same, they sort of close in on them like Furies. My friends are a bit more vengeful than me.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
It wasn't? I thought it was. You just don't appreciate your own halarity Steve.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Some groups like to make negative stereotypes about themselves to own it, and take the power away from people who'd make the same comment only out of ignorance or hatred.
I can't fault them for it, however, in taking the power for themselves and taking it away from others, they are still empowering whatever stereotype it is that they are using, and are perhaps devaluing the struggle the group might have suffered in the past over that stereotype.
The N word is the best example. But there are emerging words that work along the same lines. I was just having a conversation the other day with a black guy at work who said he wouldn't be surprised if the majority of white homes in America casually referred to black people using the N word, which shocked me. I can't stand the word, and I can rarely being myself to say it. I also highly, extremely doubt it is used casually by the majority of white homes in America.
He went on to say that among his family and friends, cracker and honkey (words apparently we don't have anywhere near as much trouble with) are considered racial slurs against white people, but aren't treated as such by anyone.
It's tough, but I think that a group taking ownership of a stereotype can be dangerous too, and it's best to fight them and let them die rather than reignite them, no matter who owns them.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I hate double standards. Wait... I employ them! Oh well, I still hate them.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I think some things aren't funny no matter who says them ... I don't see a lot of Jews making jokes about being holocaust survivors. I've heard Mormons joking about polygamy before and I always just grit my teeth. I don't want to play into the stereotype that's put on us so often by outsiders. But I don't argue with them about it; it doesn't bother me, I just don't find it funny.
Stuff that's stereotypical, but hasn't been often used as an attack against a group is funnier, IMO. For example, Mormons always joke about Mormon Standard Time. And the Jello thing - Mormons talk about it a lot, but there aren't a lot of anti-Mormons out there screaming about Jello.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
You are getting strange again Reticulum.... Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Perhaps their needs to be a new Congress, one more powerful, and fearsome then the Galaxy has ever known!
Or not.
Advent, right you may be.
*twitches*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
You haven't seen weird till you've seen weird. Understand?
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
No. I am weird. I am literally acknowledged as the wierdest person ever, and have been consistently throughout all of my school years so far.
So there! Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I don't know why, but for some reason, when I walk up to people in the hall, I ask if they got the stuff, if they look like drug dealers.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Lets get one thing straight:
Even my school's stoners, stereotype I know, tell me I'm weird.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I don't know any stoners, as I disassociate from all that I think are like that, but EVERYONE acknoledges that I'm the weirdest person ever.
If you keep this up, we may have to have a weird off, and have HatCrack vote on it. I don't think you're foolish enough.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
You obviously don't know me very well.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Nor do you I.
I acknoledge your weirdness, but convey that you are nothing compared my weirdness, you, you, you Glorgonthol!
There is about 1/trillionth of my weirdness.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
And they called me the crazy one on the Congress/Court....
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
You were.
I was just weird...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Don't worry, you both medal in the Hatrack Crazy-lympics.
Try and stay on target though. You're getting a little carried away with thread detrailings. You'd make Amtrak proud.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I am personally offended by that racist Amtrak stereotype.
I demand an apology.
-pH
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Happens all the time, that's what threads are for.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
As do I!
Psssst! pH, is Predujice!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
If Shining Time Station has taught us anything, it's that trains are as racially diverse as humans, and we should learn to celebrate their diversity.
-pH
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Alright I admit it, I've shown my anti-locomotive bias. I won't try and hide it anymore, I think Mag-levs are racially superior.
Think of me what you may, but I stand by it!
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
It's entirely situational for me. In the right company, I'm self-deprecating about being Japanese. Around others, I would never dream of it and would be offended at others who did. If I don't know someone very well, for example, or have just met them, it strikes me as very crass and desperate for attention if they make a lot of self-deprecating jokes of ANY kind.
Edited to add:
Beyond that, I have mixed feelings on how appropriate it is. I haven't really decided whether that kind of humor is a useful tool for highlighting the ridiculousness of some stereotypes and, therefore, weakening them, or if using them makes it seem more acceptable to do so amongst others.
Use of "The N Word" is a prime example. Most of the people I know who use it today would not DREAM of using it deliberately to be offensive or degrading toward a black person, but because of the prominence and "adoption" of the term by the majority of modern black culture it seems like it's more okay to say it. The word is less foreboding because it HAS a use that isn't negative. At the same time, I am proud that the black community could take a word that was so inherently negative and give it any positivity at all.
Now feminists are trying to do the same with "C*nt" and the homosexual community has largely accomplished this (and much more successfully, IMO) with "queer" - and it's slowly happening with "fag."
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
And I've gone to the dark side of the force.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: Nor do you I.
I acknoledge your weirdness, but convey that you are nothing compared my weirdness, you, you, you Glorgonthol!
There is about 1/trillionth of my weirdness.
That might read better as: "Nor you, me."
Also, I'm fairly sure that Amtrack is not, in fact, a race at all (unless it's a race to insolvency), and therefore Lyrhawn's joke was by definition not racist, offensive though it may have been.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
*bows*
Truly wise you are, Avatar.
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
Wow. I've been called wise twice in the same day, now. Either poeple are finally noticing my true greatness, or my sarcasm detector is on the fritz again.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
No, you are wise.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:If you belong to a group, is it okay to stereotype?
I personally think that we are too quick to condemn anything that is close to stereotyping. Stereotyping is a very useful tool, and to some extent, it's impossible for the human brain to not stereotype.
The problems come when you forget that it's a stereotype and think of it as the truth. As long as you remember that it's a stereotype, I don't have a problem with it.
[ February 01, 2006, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Kitsune (Member # 8290) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: Use of "The N Word" is a prime example. Most of the people I know who use it today would not DREAM of using it deliberately to be offensive or degrading toward a black person, but because of the prominence and "adoption" of the term by the majority of modern black culture it seems like it's more okay to say it.
I forget that the "N" word is a degrading word, since it's been used in every single rap and hip hop song. EEp, I call my friends that all the time :X. None of us are black though, so I dunno. I never even think of what it means when I call to my friends with this. I don't use it in a negative way, as odd as that sounds....
I bag on my fellow Asians all the time. The city in which I live is 70% Asian. It's a pretty famous place
I guess it's just based on intentions. I don't say anything to intentionally hurt, but I think it sometimes comes out that way. I guess I need to work on that :|
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