I don't usually buy brown eggs but the store was out of white eggs. I ended up having to throw out half the eggs because there was blood or "gunk" (official term) in them. So I decided that I'd give it another shot from another store and the same thing happened. I'm wondering if I'm just lucky or is this common with brown eggs?
My other question (KQ, I've noticed your recipes there) is about recipezaar. I can't figure out the caloric count. Sometimes it seems that it is per serving but then I saw a recipe (and granted it wasn't health conscious) that was well over a thousand calories. Does anyone know if it's the caloric count for the dish or per serving? (As a disclaimer, I haven't registered there, just like recipes and was checking it out)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
There shouldn't be a fertilization difference based on shell color, unless there were some confounding factor. Perhaps the brown eggs were "organic" or "farm-raised' or otherwise more likely to be fertilized?
(Sometimes people associate "brown shells" with "better" or "healthier," and I think that's one reason why special brands tend to use eggs with brown shells. Kind of underscoring the effect, I guess.)
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I didn't think there was a difference either and these were't organic. Not that it matters much but it makes me want to drive to another store if I don't find white eggs since I'm tending to throw money away with the brown.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
The blood and "gunk" does not indicate that the eggs were fertilized. Any egg can potentially have blood or other debris in the shell. A procedure is called "candling" is used to identify "bloods" as these eggs are called. Basically, the eggs are placed in front of a bright light (historically a candle was used, hence the name... nowadays they're on a conveyor belt) and an operator (or perhaps it's all mechanized now) removes the eggs with debris in them, which is visible with the bright light behind the eggs. The problem with brown eggs is that because the shells are darker, it's harder to see through them than with white shelled eggs, so there's more of a likelihood that bloods will get through.
Having half the eggs be "bloods" though seems a bit extreme. When we raised chickens, maybe 5 or 6 eggs out of a hundred might have stuff in them. It sounds like the farm those eggs come from have some issues.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Hmmm. Maybe the brown ones came from the same supplier, and perhaps (for who knows what reasons) that supplier was more likely to permit fertilization to occur.
I'd hedge my bets if I were you and note down the brand names of both batches of eggs you rejected. it might be a good idea to avoid all eggs from those suppliers, whether of white shells or brown.
--- Edited to add: Of course, you should read maui babe's clarifications and reasoning above, especially re: "fertilization" and candling issues. Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Thanks maui babe. That makes sense about the darker shells being harder too see the "gunk". I got 2 different brands from two different stores, I must be brown egg cursed Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by maui babe: Having half the eggs be "bloods" though seems a bit extreme. When we raised chickens, maybe 5 or 6 eggs out of a hundred might have stuff in them. It sounds like the farm those eggs come from have some issues.
What sort of issues might cause a higher-than-typical proportion of bloods?
*just curious
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I don't know... it's been a long time since we had chickens. But they might have some kind of illness or trauma happening in the hens. At the very least, their candling operation needs attention. It might be a good idea to complain to the store and/or the farm and let them know they have a problem.
As far as fertilization goes, most large scale egg farms do not even have roosters on the premises. If one gets through the day old sexing process, as soon as they get their tail feathers and start to crow, they get removed and, uh, exterminated. There's no point in keeping roosters in that kind of operation, since they eat at least as much as the hens and don't produce anything.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, I'd just switch away from that brand of eggs altogether. I've never had "blood or gunk" in my brown eggs-- the only time I had it was in one white egg. I took it back to the store and complained and they gave me a free dozen (and probably charged it to their supplier.)
As for recipezaar's caloric count, it's notoriously iffy. Sometimes ingredients don't get included; sometimes a whole two cups of oil that's used for frying gets counted, even though most of it is discarded. Sometimes their counts for ingredients are off. If you notice one that's really, really off, you can post about it in the support forum and they'll try to fix it (if you're registered.) Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
That's fascinating, maui babe. I think I assumed blood bits = fertilization because a Jewish friend of mine told me not to use any eggs with the bloody bits when I cooked kosher for him. Probably it was just trying not to take any chances, so setting the threashold low sort of thing.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Thanks maui babe for your expertise, Claudia and kq for your suggestions. Interesting about the eggs. I'll try to remember to take them back (I'm notoriously bad about that) and I'll register for recipezaar.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Eggs with blood spots aren't kosher, because blood isn't kosher. That's why I avoid brown eggs. Almost every time I've gotten a blooded one, it was from the brown kind. The white ones are easier to candle, so I prefer them.
And if the blood was always due to fertilization, then WOW! they are having a hot time in the henhouse!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It was explained to me (by my grandma) that the "blood eggs" would be similar to a woman bleeding while pregnant or between periods or something, I don't remember, she told me this about ten years ago (so I was only 10?) when I was showing the neighbor's chickens in 4-H.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
When both white and brown eggs are available, I have never understood why anyone would choose brown (unless they notice a taste difference -- I don't). Brown eggs are laid by different breeds of chickens than white ones. They are no healthier. And because of the candling issue mauibabe already mentioned, far more likely to have unwanted "stuff" in them.
quote: The next kashrus issue involves blood spots that are occasionally found in eggs. The Gemara Chulin discusses the status of eggs in which blood is found. A blood spot was typically considered by Chazal as an indication that the egg had been fertilized, and any resulting embryo that had formed would be prohibited. There is a significant discussion amongst the Rishonim concerning distinctions as to the location of the blood spot and whether the entire egg must be discarded or only the blood spot is prohibited. The Ram"a quotes the minhag that, in order to follow all opinions, the entire egg should be discarded regardless of where the blood spot was found. This is indeed the custom in kosher households. Were this to be the requirement for industrial eggs, however, it would be impossible to guarantee that such eggs are free of blood spots. The processing of eggs is monitored by factory workers, not the mashgiach, and with thousands of eggs being processed every hour, it is impossible to guarantee absolutely no blood, despite the USDA "Kosher"statement. Indeed, new egg processing equipment is being designed that eliminates human oversight entirely. Fortunately, such a rigorous oversight is not halachically required.
The Mechaber states explicitly that roasted eggs may be eaten even though it is impossible to check them for blood spots, and the Ram"a explains that the rationale for this is based upon the right to rely on the majority of eggs that have no blood spots. The Ram"a notes, however, that the minhag is to check eggs during the daytime when it is possible - but clearly allows the use of unchecked eggs at night since the option of checking them is not available. Concern over blood spotted eggs today is further mitigated by the fact that the vast majority of eggs sold for food are derived from hens that have never been near a male in their lives. Hens are segregated in huge coops at times containing up to a million birds at a time - for the sole purpose of converting chicken feed into eggs. Such eggs are referred to in the Gemara as Safna Me'ar'ah, and the blood found in such eggs would never prohibit the entire egg. The Iggros Moshe, Yoreh De'ah: 36 discusses the status of blood spotted eggs in countries where such eggs predominate and notes that the Minhag is still to discard the entire egg. However, in cases where a blood spotted egg was cooked in a pot with another egg, there is no basis to be concerned with the status of the other egg or the pot (unless one is aware that it is definitely from a fertilized egg).
Personally, I rely upon what I have been told multiple times (as cited here by an expert in the kashrus field):
quote: Therefore, if one buys an egg from the store in the United States, it can be considered a kosher egg, even without checking it.
I check them, but I don't inspect them with a magnifying glass or anything. Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
I have been eating and cooking with brown eggs for years and I have never ever seen a bloody egg, brown or otherwise. Weird. I like the taste of brown eggs better but the real difference may be that the brand I buy. Farmhouse Eggs are hand gathered from grain fed, free roaming nesting hens (according to the carton which I retrieved from the fridge for this post) and the white ones I grew up on were the factory breeding kind.
I don't know about the calorie counts on recipezaar but I sure do love their recipes. Ironically, I made a crustless quiche tonight from a recipe on that site using my brown eggs.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by MandyM: Farmhouse Eggs are hand gathered from grain fed, free roaming nesting hens
And every Saturday night, the chickens are all invited to a barn dance.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
Alls I know is thems good eatin'
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
We have only brown eggs here - I've never seen white eggs anywhere here ever - and I've only had blood in the eggs twice, and that was last week. Granted, we don't go through a lot of eggs - perhaps a ten-pack a month-ish, but still.
Which is only to say that, while blood in brown eggs may be harder to detect, it ain't impossible.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: we don't go through a lot of eggs - perhaps a ten-pack a month
Eggs come in a ten-pack over there? Oh! Maybe because of the metric system.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Um, probably not - that would make too much sense.
I can also tell you that they come in plastic see-through cartons. You know, the same plastic that's used for dates and raisins here. Oh. That doesn't help, does it? Well, it's the semi-rigid clear plastic that's a bit heavier than what's used for spice bags, but flimsy enough that we have, a couple of times, broken a few eggs just by bumping them slightly. Okay, it was against metal, but still. Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Sounds like I got a bad brand...I just went to the store and forgot to complain/take the eggs back. Maybe I'd just better call or it might not get done.
You don't think the ones that I did use are bad do you (since so many had blood and the whole sick hen thing maui babe was talking about)? *tries not to worry about sharing cookies with neighbors.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
If what my grandma said is true (and that it's not a contagious thing but something more reproductive) then I doubt that they're that much of a problem, if it's a more sick type of thing, it could be but really, don't worry unless your neighbors all get some nasty flu like thing, then move so you don't have to pay their medical bills and lawsuits Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
As long as they're cooked, I don't see how it could be something you can get sick from. Not like the appearance of, sure, notice the flavor of, only if it's big enough, but sick? This isn't mad cow disease we're talking bout.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
oh wow I forgot about cooking (my friends eat too much cookie dough) yeah you're fine sweetaboo.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I need a graemlin that wipes the forehead with a big "whew". I don't wanna move again for at least a year! Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I was thinking about this thread this morning and remembering when we used to keep chickens. I really miss raising a part of my own food, and there is no comparing a fresh egg from a free range chicken to one purchased in a grocery store that you have no idea how long it's been on the shelf. There is even a visible difference in the yolk - a "free range" egg has a yolk that is so orange it's almost red. The store eggs are pale and tasteless.
We raised mostly Rhode Island Reds because they are extremely cold hardy (we lived in Idaho) and are remarkably calm for chickens. Their eggs are brown.
At one time we had White Plymouth Rock (I couldn't find a link, but think Foghorn Leghorn) chickens, which lay white eggs. They were extremely flighty, fought with each other all the time and weren't as good in the cold. Their eggs are white, and many large farms like them because they're smaller than most other breeds, and eat less, but lay large eggs.
We also dabbled a bit with exotic chickens. We had an Araucana that laid mint green eggs. We called her "Pajarita" and she was very gentle, and almost like a pet. I have pictures of my children playing with her in the house.
If I ever get a little bit of land again (or even a rental house with a yard) I'll surely have chickens again. They're a lot of fun and it's nice to raise some of my own food.
Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
Brown and other odd-colored eggs are great for decorating. My aunt taught me to do Ukrainian egg painting, and we always enjoyed using unusual eggs. Goose eggs were fun, too, and easier to decorate.
One thing I miss is double-yolk eggs. It seems that modern processing methods make double-yolks much, much rarer.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
My neighbor raised Rhode Island Red's and some lacy bantam, I showed both types open at the fair, and the Banty's in 4-H a few years later. I miss that so much, I refused to eat a chicken he raised, but I ate the eggs pretty often, which were amazing. My mom's friend always had a few Araucana's for her Green Eggs and Ham unit with her kindergarten class (they had a horse farm, so two chickens was no problem).
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Just wondering but isn't a garden an easier way to grow your own food and less messy? (even growing tomatoes in pots)
We had land when I was growing up but since my Dad was a dentist we didn't use it, so my uncle did and he kept chickens in our barn. I think they were the white fog horn/leg horn variety because they were beasts, always picking on each other like you said. The were awful looking from picking on each other (missing feathers and such) I just remember not liking to go near the barn while my uncle kept them there. Good to know that there are nice chickens in the world.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Double yolks are eliminated at the same time as bloods from what I understand, meaning they still exist, but they are checked on the line before being packaged.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I don't know if gardening is *easier* necessarily. Less messy perhaps, but gardening can be a lot of work. I try to do that too, mostly with fresh herbs right now, since I only have a small lanai. For a family of 4-6, 5-10 hens will keep you in more eggs than you can eat. With all the hoopla about avian influenza happening right now, who knows what's going to happen with the poultry/egg industry in the near future.
My boss traveled to SE Asia with his family over the holidays and spoke to a former colleague from Vietnam (he's a tropical disease specialist). In most parts of Vietnam, there is not a live chicken or an egg to be purchased at any price. All of the large poultry farms have depopulated their flocks, causing severe problems with the country's food supply. They have plenty of rice, but no noodles, since they're made with eggs, and they are anticipating severe protein deficiencies, since chicken and eggs are their main protein source.
I've just been thinking that I'd like to be able to provide for myself and my family in such a situation (which is not extremely likely in the US, but not completely impossible either, especially in Hawaii). With my experience raising chickens (we also had goats and pigs, but that's a completely different situation - they're a LOT more work and need a lot more land), I know that with very little space and not a lot of effort, I could have a decent protein source to rely on.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
True, true. I wasn't thinking about the "provident living" aspect of raising chickens.
I was thinking of how I've been gardening lately, in small raised boxes or pots, not necessarily a huge corn growing garden (I wasn't very specific sorry, but you are right).
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Also, if you have an abundance of eggs, you can trade for your neighbor's tomatoes, right?
I'm also not averse to eating my chickens, although there's a lot of work to be done in that regard. We used to butcher the cockerels at around 12-16 weeks (that was some good eating, I'll tell you) when they were nice and tender. When the hens stopped laying, the only way to make them palatable (or even really edible) was to pressure can them. I'd cut up the chicken, stuff it into a widemouth quart jar, and pressure for close to 2 hours, if I recall. They were very tasty that way in casseroles and soups. I tried just pressure-cooking the chickens without the jars, and they were inedible.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
So the chicken would cook in the jars while they are being canned? Or did you cook the chicken first? (I know nothing about this can you tell?) Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I eat so little chicken (or any meat truly) that not eating chicken I knew is pretty normal seeming. (I wouldn't eat any red meat, starting at about two, because the moos at the fence were my friends, and i wasn't eating mommy either) But it is so awesome that people can raise stuff that way, home raised eggs are perfect.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Yes baboo, you put the raw chicken in the jars and it cooks as it processes.
And breyerchic, we didn't eat our special chickens (like Pajarita), but we had no attachment to the bulk of the chickens at all. My children just considered them work and pains in the neck.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I guess that would make a difference, but i was the type of kid who made friends with everything, and it was important, that must have made the difference.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
Even after having the chickens in my backyard, I don't remember ever eating fresh eggs (maybe my uncle didn't share ) I don't remember. Sounds like I'm missing out. Heck! Maybe I'll have chickens of my own one day, at least I'll know who to contact for help.
What an interesting turn this thread has taken!
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
the eggs that candle out because of blood or specks are just graded as B or C and used for commercial cooking. They are not necessarly less healthy or less safe. Just less attractive.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I thought the double-yolk eggs were more common in extra-large eggs and were preferred by restaurants and such. You know, a two egg omelette from one egg, for example. I don't know if that's just urban legend, but that's what I was told. Decades ago.
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) I don't remember. Sounds like I'm missing out. Heck! Maybe I'll have chickens of my own one day, at least I'll know who to contact for help.