My wife and I have been planning to have a quiet Christmas day. Just us and the kids. We are getting together on Christmas Eve with her two brothers who will be in town and we thought that was it for family events until new years.
Today, one of my wifes brothers decided that we need to have Christmas dinner together. That's fine I guess, we were planning a quiet Christmas day but I guess that won't happen now (they have 4 kids, 3 of whom are quite active and loud). We love them though and don't have a problem sharing our holiday with them. It will be good to share our afternoon and a meal.
Here is the biggest problem that has arisen. My wife and I don't stuff our turkey in a traditional manner. I like stuffing and all, but I prefer to stuff a turkey with lemons and herbs (usually rosemary) finding that it makes the meat more moist and the smells and flavor are amazing. So we usually just use stove top stuffing which I admit isn't up to par with real stuffing but it is a passable substitute for me. Apparently it is not alright with her Brother and his family. They offered to make the stuffing and then we could just stuff the bird with that.
Here is the situation I find myself in. I want to stuff the turkey my way with the lemons and rosemary but I also want to cook their stuffing. I know that you can cook the stuffing outside of the bird but I don't know the best way to do it. Do I just make pouches of foil and stick it in the oven along with the turkey or is there more to it? Do I need to add something to keep it moist? Or am I being too stubborn and should I just stuff the turkey and use my lemons for something else?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
My mother-in-law always cooks her stuffing in a casserole dish, covered with tin foil, I think. I can't remember the last time I had stuffing that was actually cooked inside the turkey. I personally would not want to eat it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I've heard that once you try crockpot stuffing, you never go back. You can also bake the stuffing and pour a couple of cans of chicken broth over it to keep it moist. Personally, I like half of the stuffing cooked in the turkey, half out, and then tossed together, but to each his own. My mom's family always bakes the stuffing out of the bird, and I always end up eating too much anyway.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
I never bake my stuffing in the bird. Usually someone else in my family makes the turkey and I make the dressing so they (the dressing and the turkey) are never together until we get to the table. Here is my recipe:
7 slices oven-dried white bread cut into cubes 1 sleeve saltine crackers crushed 8 tablespoons butter 2 cups celery, chopped 1 large onion, chopped 7 cups chicken stock (I use canned) 1 teaspoon salt Freshly ground black pepper 1 teaspoon sage 1 tablespoon poultry seasoning (I usually use a little more of these spices) 5 eggs, beaten 4 boxes of Jiffy cornbread, made according to the directions, crumbled
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. In a large bowl, combine crumbled cornbread, dried white bread slices, and saltines; set aside. Melt the butter in a large skillet over medium heat (or in the microwave). Add the celery and onion and cook until transparent, approximately 5 to 10 minutes (be sure to FULLY cook the celery or it will never get cooked all the way, ok if you like crunchy celery but I don't). Pour the vegetable mixture over cornbread mixture. Add the stock, mix well, taste, and add salt, pepper to taste, sage, and poultry seasoning (this is VERY runny, don't worry). Add beaten eggs and mix well. Pour mixture into a well greased pan and bake until dressing is cooked through, about 45 minutes.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
And I say, it is your house and they invited themselves so you should cook the turkey any way you want. Lemons and rosemary sound wonderful! I am tackling next year's turkey so maybe I will try that. Good luck!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
On recipezaar, we also had a discussion about faking in the bird stuffing. The consensus was, put it in a corningware dish, add a little extra liquid, and top it with chicken wings before baking. It should come out more like in-the-bird stuffing that way. (Just remembered that, sorry.)
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
quote:Originally posted by MandyM: And I say, it is your house and they invited themselves so you should cook the turkey any way you want. Lemons and rosemary sound wonderful! I am tackling next year's turkey so maybe I will try that. Good luck!
That's pretty much how I feel. I really reccomend trying the rosemary with lemons stuffed inside the bird. The flavor is amazing and the meat is so moist and juicy. I usually baste the turkey with butter and put fresh ground pepper and some of the rosemary on the outside as well.
Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
An alternative to chicken stock, if you have the time to do it, is to take the neck and giblets of the turkey and boil them with onion and poultry spices for an hour or so. I like to use this for the liquid in oven stuffing, and also in the gravy.
--Mel
Posted by sarcare (Member # 8736) on :
Also, you can bake the stuffing in muffin tins. I watch FoodTV too much and they discussed how putting the stuffing in the bird is very bad, and that stuffing it with herbs and stuff is much better. Rachael Ray did the stuffing in the muffin tins, it looked really good, and was pre-portioned.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
My sister bakes stuffing in a pan with some turkey drumsticks on top, to give the stuffing the "cooked inside the bird" taste.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ela: My sister bakes stuffing in a pan with some turkey drumsticks on top, to give the stuffing the "cooked inside the bird" taste.
Another advantage would be that all the kids get their own drumsticks!
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Wait, you mean that not only do people eat drumsticks, but that children in particular like them? Seriously?
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Depends on the age of the kids. A turkey drumstick is pretty darned big. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My husband loves turkey drumsticks. Especially the barbequed ones you get at fairs. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I love turkey drumsticks, too.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
At Thanksgiving, we had the whole family -- about 30 of us. And the first-grade-and-under-set (well, the ones old enough for real food) each got their own turkey drumstick. You never saw such delighted kids. An 18-month toddler hefting a turkey drumstick almost as large as his head and loving it down was the inspiration for every grown up to run for the camera.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Emma would so do that.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Sacrilege alert> > > > > > > > > There, you were warned. We prefer Stovetop stuffing. I have had many a stuffing in my day, but nary a one has come close to Stovetop.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Stovetop is pretty tasty, as long as it has been doctored properly. Adding sauteed onions and celery to it makes all the difference. The main problem is that a box of Stovetop doesn't make anywhere near enough stuffing for me.
--Mel
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Agreed. We make four boxes for the family.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I'm with Mandy. It's your house, you and your wife are cooking. If you're accustomed to StoveTop, then they get StoveTop. And if it's that much of a dealbreaker for the extended family, then maybe they'll think twice about inviting themselves. (evil grin)
Seriously, I don't recommend going through extra hoops to make something out of your comfort zone for the very first time when you have a large gathering expecting it. StoveTop that you know well and won't mess up is infinitely better than crunchy "never made this before" mess. (ask me how I know? LOL). That's the number one reason I won't make mashed potataoes from scratch despite repeated requests from one family member. I know Potato Buds, and I'm feeding you. When you cook, you can make your homemade mashies. So there! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The recipes for crockpot stuffing I linked to did look pretty good. There's even a home-made one or two-- but I'll betcha if you cooked the Stovetop that way, they wouldn't know what hit them. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Hmm. Another option is simply to make the Stovetop stuffing and say nothing about it being Stovetop stuffing.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
My sister (whom I adore) did a change up on the stuffing this year. I was deprived of my apple and raisin stuffing for the first time ever.
It inspired me to go out and make my own %#@& turkey with my own #$%* stuffing and it turned out just great. So there. I am now longer stuffing dependent.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
Oh, I've made stuffing before and I think I've even done the half in the bird and half out. I just can't remember how we cooked the stuff that wasn't in the turkey in the past. I think we went with a casserole dish with foil overtop.
We don't have a crockpot (we used to have a little two person one but we got rid of that when our family grew to 4) so we won't be trying that method this year. We won't actually be making the stuffing anyways, just cooking it.
I also don't mind cooking the stuffing as they have offered to basically bring all the vegetables as well as a dessert. I just don't want to give up my way of making the turkey as we only have it once a year.
I am only accustomed to Stove Top in the sense that I don't want to sacrifice stuffing the turkey with lemons. I prefer real stuffing to Stove Top in most cases.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Is there a place that you can order stuffing from? My mom gets stuffing and things from a local store (actually, I think it's a department store) that gives it to you in aluminum tins, and all you have to do is reheat it.
They have some tasty stuffing, too.
-pH
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
Another option is to order pizza and do your own Christmas dinner your way after they leave <kidding>
That crockpot stuffing does sound good.
Goody has a good point about not cooking something new. I usually try my new recipes on someone first in case of a blowout. I have been in that situation too, either on the cooking or the eating end of things. My great-aunt's banana pudding was the worst concoction I can imagine a few Thanksgivings ago; there is no way she practiced first or had made that before!
And I like Stovetop too but for a crowd, my recipe is just as easy and is much cheaper. Enough Stovetop to feed as many people as you'll have can't be cheap.
[posted before I read your latest post]
Tell them that the turkey is your show and they can do everything else their way. Just add more broth to the stuffing and put it in a casserle dish. I don't use foil but that is because I like the crunchy topping.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
Crunchy topping may be a plus. It sounds like it would be good. I think I will try that.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Aluminum foil gives you crunchy stuffing on the bottom, if you've cooked it long enough. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
But, I agree with everyone else. Especially if your kids (and theirs) are eating the food. They are much more sensitive to food poisoning (in my experience, or at least, they get much sicker than adults) and you don't want anyone getting sick. You shouldn't be cooking stuffing in a turkey these days anyway. Where have they been for the last 2 decades?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
whines...
But it's good that way. Mixed half and half ('cuz you can't fit all of it into one turkey).
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
No, you mix it half and half to get enough and also so it's just the right mix of moist and dry! And if you cook it to the proper temperature, it's totally safe. You just have to make sure that the stuffing as well as the bird reaches the right temp.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Have you ever over cooked the turkey to make sure the stuffing was done enough?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
No. I sear the outside at high heat first, then roast on low, after brining. Perfect, juicy bird and perfectly done stuffing every time.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
We tried not stuffing the turkey 10 years ago, and would never, never, never stuff one again. The stuffing has to get the moisture from somewhere. It comes from the Turkey!!. That means the moisture is not in the Turkey anymore. That means you are trying to look excited about eating dry Turkey. Lemons and Rosemary would be good. A leafy stalk of Celery works too. But, never stuffing!
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I like slightly overcooked turkey! Dry is good! (I am also good with the moisture level of half and half.)
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I am ruining my chances of ever being invited to a Hatrack potluck.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
I like Stovetop with onions, celery, candied pecans, some pineapple juice and cranberries added. Yumm.. I rarely eat turkey or ham at a holiday meal. I'm all about the sides! Though, lemon and rosemary flavored turkey does sound good.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
If you brine the turkey, stuffing seriously doesn't dry it out. Especially if you put enough moisture in the stuffing.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I've never had a problem with the turkey drying out even with it stuffed - everyone loves my turkey because it's, well, perfect.
I always make extra stuffing that I cook outside, but that's because everyone I know are stuffing pigs. I cook them in foil packets with the giblets and whatnot added, although I do like the idea of getting extra turkey drumsticks and adding those. But then, in my family & extended family, everyone pigs out on dark meat. And fights over who gets the drumstick.
But yeah, I'm with the others. It's your house. Do what you want. Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
I'm going to have to try that crockpot stuffing, since we'll be having duck instead of turkey for Christmas. The stuffing at Thanksgiving wasn't very good, so my craving was not relieved. I've got a fairly large crockpot; I bet I could make a lot of stuffing in it.
--Mel
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
We do stuffing outside the bird too, and it works great! I'll give you my recipe.
2 loaves white and 1 loaf whole wheat bread from pepperidge farms, dried (in the oven on cookie sheets at 200 degrees F) and broken into chunks, approximately 6 chunks per slice. 2 9" x 9" cake pans of cornbread (don't use sweet cornbread). 6 large sweet onions, chopped. 2 bunches of celery, chopped, about 15 stalks. 2 sticks margarine. 8 eggs plus water to make 4 cups. 1 tablespoon of salt 1/2 tablespoon of pepper 2 tablespoons poultry seasoning
The day before:
Break up bread and cornbread into a very large bowl. The bread should be dry enough that it's tough, and scratchy on the outside, but not crispy all through like toast. Stir the eggs up in the water in a pitcher. Saute onions and celery in margarine over high heat in a very large pot for 5 or 10 minutes, stirring constantly, until onions are translucent. Add bread mixture about 1/3 at a time, alternating with egg mixture and spices. Stir constantly with a huge spoon to keep from burning on bottom. It helps to recruit someone with strong arms to stir, as it's pretty heavy and thick. Turn the heat down to medium or medium-low for this stage. Not all the egg mixture will be needed. You don't want to let it get too wet. Individual bits of bread should still be recognizable, giving it a good texture, but making it tender. Don't put so much liquid in that you make it one homogeneous blob. Stir this stuff on the stovetop for maybe 5 -7 minutes until it's well-mixed and steamy throughout. Then put it in the big bowl, cover it, and leave it in the fridge overnight.
The day of the meal:
Put dressing into two 9"x13" flat pyrex casserole dishes, or something else rather flattish. Bake at 350 degrees F for about 1 hour, uncovered, basting with turkey gravy during cooking, if desired. Serve with lots of turkey gravy.
This makes enough to feed a large group of people, perhaps 20 - 24. You can make smaller batches if your group is not that big. The high heat while sauteing is basically because there's so much stuff (onions, celery, margarine) that it's hard to get it all good and hot. If you have a smaller recipe, you would probably do better with medium high heat.
Edit: Adjusted a bit to what I actually do, from paying attention while I did it, (if that makes sense).
[ December 24, 2005, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:tuffing increases mass. Mass extends cooking time. By the time enough heat gets into the stuffing to cook it and render it safe, the turkey, or a good portion of it, will be overcooked. You want to cook a turkey as fast as you can to minimize juice loss, and the fastest way is without stuffing it. So make stuffing, save your drippings, and stuff it in something else to cook it. Just don't cook it in the turkey. You could cook the stuffing separately and put it in the turkey after the turkey is cooked, or you can definitely take the bird out of the oven and put the stuffing in then. But don't add too much salt to the stuffing, because there will be a good deal of salt coming out a brined turkey, and the drippings will be on the salty side. So take the turkey out of the roasting pan, toss your dressing in the drippings, stuff it in the turkey while it rests, and then take it to the table. Stuffing is only evil when it's stuffing. If it's dressing, it's fine.
I think the key advice is use the drippings!
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
This has inspired me to make dressing for Christmas dinner. I wonder if I can cut down the amount to about half? We don't have quite the hordes to feed this year as usual. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
If it's the apple and raisin kind, you are welcome to UPS the leftovers to me.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: This has inspired me to make dressing for Christmas dinner. I wonder if I can cut down the amount to about half? We don't have quite the hordes to feed this year as usual.
Buy the whole fresh turkey, and have the butcher guy cut it in half for you. Alton Brown and Julia Child and that crowd will tell you that this is the simplest thing to do in your own kitchen. They are lying.
Use one half (I lean towards the left wing, but that's just me) for your dinner, the other can be frozen.
Plonk your stuffing in your roasting pan and lay the half turkey (skin up) on top. Or cook it separately, see what I care.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I usually modify recipes to use whole package amounts of every ingredient that's perishable. That way I don't waste any leftover ingredients, since I rarely cook, and can't eat much of most things. At the store I went ahead and bought enough ingredients for the full batch.
So here's the conundrum. Do I make the whole recipe, and only take 1/2 to Christmas dinner with me, leaving the other half behind to tempt me? Or do I only make half and waste the remaining ingredients? Maybe I should make the whole batch and give the second half to my sister-in-law who loves it.
I need to recruit a stirrer, too. This is how I learned to make dressing, one of my favorite dishes of all times, by being a stirrer and watching my mom make it year after year. Anyone with strong arms going to be in the Birmingham, AL area Saturday afternoon and want to come be a stirrer and apprentice dressing chef? You get to eat as much dressing as you like. We don't bind the mouths of the kine around here. Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
I just had to share this since you have relatives trying to set the menu at your house.
My mother-in-law, who is just indescribable, told me I should just serve bologna and bread for Christmas dinner. I told her that when we went to her house, we could have bologna but when she came to my house, I was going to cook.
I think she is commenting on the fact that I served a traditional Thanksgiving meal for our small family (just me and my husband and daughter, my parents, and her and her husband). At that meal she kept slapping her husband's hand every time he used his cloth napkin, telling him they were just for show and she went to get him a paper napkin out of the kitchen. Then she ate her turkey leg like a cave man and told my wide-eyed toddler, who had cut up turkey with gravy, that eating with her hands makes things taste better. It took us three days to convince her to use her fork again. After dinner, she announced to the family that she had to go outside to smoke and fart.
And she is coming again for Christmas. Solo, I feel for you; I really do.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by MandyM: After dinner, she announced to the family that she had to go outside to smoke and fart.
What a considerate guest!
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
Well I thought so. The last time she was there with just me and my husband, she just lifted her leg to do it. She thinks it is funny. She keeps asking when my 2-year-old will be old enough to spend the night at her house. Maybe when she is 18.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yikes! Mandy, I feel for you. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Mandy, what does your husband think about his mother's behavior?
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
Well, he knows that she is a little off but he chalks it up to her being in the military. He is a little uncivilized himself when no one is around but he cleans up well. I suspect he is a little embarrassed by her but he would never say so. He just kind of laughs it off.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
If anyone made my dressing recipe, I apologize for having too much poultry seasoning on there before. I fixed it now.
I just made some a while ago, and realized I needed to cut it down. I actually do it by look and taste, so I was just guessing before.
Merry Christmas!
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
Update: I asked my hubby what he thinks of his mother's outrageous behavior and he said she is funny. He actually said she didn't have much but she did have amazing wit. I just looked at him in utter disbelief. Did I really marry this man?
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
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