He did indeed. In fact, we have a new development. Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and, apparently, R. Kelly have all come out of the closet.
But not in real life, sorry folks. I was referring to the new episode of South Park. Did anyone see it? It was a slam against Scientoligists. And I'm interested.
I don't want to convert, but I'm just intrigued. I am thinking about buying a copy of Dianetics just to read it. Has anyone else read it?
Do we have any Scientoligists running about? 'Cause if we do, is it possible you could explain kind of what the ideas behind your doctrine are. Or should I just read Dianetics?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I read a lot of about scientology before the South Park episode (off of Wikipedia if anyone cares), and it actually matched the South park episode pretty well. I won't say any more about my opinions or anything though, lest I offend any scientologists on here.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Our television wouldn't allow me to view more than four channels last night, and Comedy Central was not among them. I must see this episode.
-pH
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I read Dianetics. It was interesting. Total off the wall crap, but interesting.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
pfresh and El Spang- See, that is what I thought. I thought it would be cool to see what it was all about.
pH- Its on again tonight!
Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
As a member of an oft-spat-upon religious minority (yes, Mormon), I feel for the Scientologists, although a lot of their practices, like refusing all forms of psychiatric medication and therapy, or the necessity to "donate" large amounts to advance in the faith, concern me. Also, I've seen a few off-the-wall Christian churches that were just as loopy and/or donation-hungry. And plenty of people think *my* religion is off-the-wall, or even donation-hungry (although the practice of the tithe is strictly Biblical and by no means confined to our particular corner of Christianity; Islam also asks a percentage of income, though it's not technically a tithe as it isn't a tenth). So I'm all for live-and-let-live. I'm no expert, though, and I'd love to hear more from someone who is. Religion is always interesting to me.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Most of the OT stuff is up on Wikipedia as well. Just search for scientology. It's got tons of information.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
What time is it on tonight?!
I can't download it. Loyola Chicago is scary about downloading. Perhaps I can get someone to send it to me over AIM or something.
-pH
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I hate South Park but I caught the "closet scene" while flipping channels and I couldn't stop laughing.
I think the majority of organized religion is screwy. Scientology not excluded.
Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
quote:I think the majority of organized religion is screwy.
The majority of organized *anything* will always seem "screwy" to an outsider. I don't think it's confined to religion. If you were to sit in on a Japanese business meeting (and could more or less understand the language), you'd no doubt come away with a "screwy" impression. This would be, however, more a function of your lack of understanding of the common culture and unspoken beliefs underlying the whole thing then of any objective "screwiness" on the part of the Japanese.
Human beings deal with each other in almost entirely symbolic fashion; when you don't understand the symbols interaction will simply be gibberish for you. And, as many cultural anthropologists have discovered, the only way to really completely understand a culture is to become part of it. Otherwise much of the meaning will be forever out of your grasp.
To give another example from Japan: a Japanese can, on observing a group of his countrymen, almost immediately order them exactly in terms of status. He will also know, on meeting another for the first time, know automatically how deeply to bow, whether to place his hands on his thighs, and what words he should use.
All this goes on mostly below the concious level. You will notice that Asians become very uncomfortable when an American stands at a customary Western distance away from them, or touches them briefly as Americans are wont to do. Americans may notice that *they* are uncomfortable when an Arab or Hispanic stands quite close and touches or hugs them often and for longer than they are used to.
I can't count the number of times I have heard Hispanics complain that Americans are "cold" but couldn't really say exactly why. When I explained that an American backing away was not due to a lack of warmth but because their cultural norms reserved that space for very intimate friends and family, they understood; but the perception of "coldness" was still hard for them to shake.
Just remember; *everyone* does and participates in things that would seem very "screwy" to anyone who doesn't completely understand what's going on. Ever tried a handshake on someone who's never seen one before?
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
excellent post, Yank.
Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
Thank you. This is something I feel very strongly about.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
That was a good post, Yank.
That being said , Scientology scares the crap out of me. Most religions do. If that religion (or religious person) is indeed "live and let live", I'm fine with it. But basically, I don't want to hear how much I'm going to hell and I want everyone to keep their laws off my body. And brain. So Scientology gets me *really* riled. But it's not alone in that capacity.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
That said, Scientology is screwy. It is not merely a matter of being an unusual religion; it's a matter of being a thuggish, greedy fraud perpetrated on a bunch of people who would know better but who have been actually brainwashed by the recruitment techniques.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
You could make that argument about a lot of religions, Tom. It's hard to draw a line that will both allow religious freedom and protect the innocent from exploitative leaders.
Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
I *have* heard though, and from people whose opinions I respect, that Scientology may very well cross that line almost no matter where you draw it. I still feel for the members, but I've not heard anything good about the leadership.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I only dislike it because of Jenna Elfman and how she was in that stupid show Dharma and Greg and I hate that show and how she seems to be as stupid as the main character!
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Yank- Your post was very well written and obviously very well thought out, and it got me thinking. It usually takes a lot to do that because my mild ADD acts up when anything involving thought comes up. I heartily congragulate you.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
And that was an interesting post... I feel out of step everywhere, no matter where it goes It seems. Like a sharp note in the middle of the c major scale that just doesn't fit.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Whose post were you referring too?
Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
That was an awesome post. I figure that sure, Scientologists have some really wierd beliefs, but they're harmless, so why hate on them? Live and let live.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Yanks..
I am a bit afraid of organized religion too. Perhaps because I used to be SDA. But, there would be certain advantages to belonging to a religion. Being able to meet people, security, it would be easier to meet single folks and all.
I've read somewhere that their beliefs might have caused someone's death. I am not so sure...
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
But must you be so actively biased and rude?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
>>Because the Church isn't harmless, and letting live is not one of their strong points.
I agree. But can you name any religion for which that isn't true?
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
The Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Atheists are usually quite friendly.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
Battlefield Earth was good, but a religion that began as a bet involving L. Ron Hubbard and Arthur C. Clarke making up religions cannot be.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I really don't think adam has been at all rude.
And I completely agree with JT's assessment of Dianetics.
I would strongly recommend that anyone who is interested in learning about Scientology read A Piece of Blue Sky. A fascinating read.
Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
quote:Yanks..
I am a bit afraid of organized religion too. Perhaps because I used to be SDA. But, there would be certain advantages to belonging to a religion. Being able to meet people, security, it would be easier to meet single folks and all.
Just to be clear, I have nothing against organized religion. I am a Mormon; I spent two years of my life preaching it. We are very much of the live-and-let-live persuasion, having suffered plenty at the hands of those who aren't.
I do understand why so many dislike organized religions. For one thing, they involve humans, and are therefore often quite harmful. But then, so are governments. And business groups. And social groups. But none of these things are inherently bad, and we're better off with than without them, methinks.
Anytime you've got humans, you've got abuses. That's why the American Founders were such geniuses; they built a government around the assumption that people would often be at their worst.
As I said before, I don't personally know much about Scientology, but plenty of sources that I trust don't paint a very pretty picture.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Our television wouldn't allow me to view more than four channels last night, and Comedy Central was not among them. I must see this episode.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Loyola Chicago is scary about downloading. Perhaps I can get someone to send it to me over AIM or something.![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
Thank you. This is something I feel very strongly about.