You females confuse me yet attract me. I can't interact well with any of you though. So tell me, how do I deal with women?
(Note: This is partly meant as a parody of the other thread and partly serious. Reply to whichever part you like.)
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Well, I don't suggest expressing your feelings by suddenly kissing her on the neck. Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Worship!
Nah, just be yourself. Be confident without being arrogant. Don't be wrapped up in meeting a woman. Work on the rest of your life instead. Eventually you'll encounter a woman that appreciates you for yourself.
Posted by Parsimony (Member # 8140) on :
Sudden kisses on the neck never go over well. I would suggest sudden kisses on the elbows.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Give 'em tha bling blihing.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
I suggest an even number of cards for each player.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Just give up. They'll eventually hunt you with tazers and mace.
Posted by Zarex (Member # 8504) on :
You might as well give up trying to deal with women. Here's a quote from Homer's The Odyssey "The days for trusting women have gone forever." -Agememnon
So you might as well give up and go play Dungeons and Dragons. NPC women are much easier to understand.
Posted by luthe (Member # 1601) on :
Dancing naked on the street outside thier homes is what I do. I admit that I have not had much success with it yet but YMMV.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
*jots down notes* So worship naked outside their homes before giving up on them and replacing them with NPC women...*nods* I see. Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Post scantily clad pictures of yourself on the internet. Wait for fan mail from creepy stalker girls. Make sure they're not jailbait.
--Enigmatic
Posted by K.T. (Member # 8665) on :
Hmm. How to deal with women?
Just nod and say, "You're probably right."
Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: I suggest an even number of cards for each player.
Best joke ever!*
*While it may not, in fact, be the best joke ever, it's still pretty funny.
Posted by Zarex (Member # 8504) on :
Besides if you ever need to impress an NPC female, you can always brag about your strength and constitution scores, you could even brag about how many hit dice you have.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Just be yourself.
When that doesn't work, just be someone much sexier than yourself.
--Enigmatic
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
*nods* That's where lines like "I roll doubles" come into play.
Posted by Zarex (Member # 8504) on :
How to deal with women:
Somewhere between those four.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:Hmm. How to deal with women?
Just nod and say, "You're probably right."
Ding, ding, ding. Yes, absolutely.
It might be the most mind-numblingly idiotic thing you've ever heard in your entire life, but you must agree with everything. A joke now and then helps too, but don't stress yourself out about it.
Posted by Zarex (Member # 8504) on :
At my stake conference, Dalin H. Oaks came to appoint the new stake president, in his talk he listed the four things that men should say to women. (or their wives/girlfriends)
1. Yes dear. 2. I'm sorry. 3. You were right. 4. We can't afford it.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Um. See, that's reason #467 why I'm not a Mormon. Not there's anything wrong with being Mormon, if you're into that.
Some helpful advice:
1). Listen to what she has to say, don't just talk about yourself. If you get her talking about her interests, you'll be able to see whether you have anything in common, and go from there.
2). If what she says sounds like the most idiotic thing you've ever heard, let it go. No matter how cute she is, if you can't respect her opinions it will not end well.
3). If she spends all her time with you mooning about some other guy and saying what a good friend you are, face up to the fact that you are not even an 'also ran' and get on with your life.
4). Learning to communicate with the opposite sex is hard. She may not actually be saying what you think you heard, and she may not be hearing what you think you said. Trust me on that one.
5). Last and most importantly for later in your life -- on pain of death, for the sake of all that is holy -- never, ever sing, hum or play on a musical instrument anything resembling the tune of "The Old Gray Mare" within hearing distance of your pregnant wife. Seriously, the result will not be pleasant.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'm not sure I could sing, hum, or play that song even if I wanted to.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
It's a good thing, too Posted by Zarex (Member # 8504) on :
Wait, what's reason #467, and why is it a reason?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
jebus knows. Bling bling, baby.
-pH
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I've heard plastic surgery that makes one look like Vin Diesel helps too.
(Or has that phase passed?)
Posted by WntrMute (Member # 7556) on :
1. Be rich. 2. If you can't be rich, be famous. 3. If you can't be rich or famous, be powerful. 4. If you can't manage having fortune, fame or power then be extremely good-looking and work as a gardener/poolboy/chaffuer to a woman married to one of the above three.
Otherwise, you are out of luck.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
One word: Chocolate.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
"Oh, there's the usual things; flowers, chocolates, promises you don't intend to keep... "
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by WntrMute: 1. Be rich. 2. If you can't be rich, be famous. 3. If you can't be rich or famous, be powerful. 4. If you can't manage having fortune, fame or power then be extremely good-looking and work as a gardener/poolboy/chaffuer to a woman married to one of the above three.
Otherwise, you are out of luck.
I guess I'm out of luck then. I'm not rich (and won't be), I won't be famous, and my power will be limited. I'm also only moderately good looking (at best) and I wouldn't work as a gardener/poolboy/chaffuer. So I'm out of luck.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
pfresh, as a woman, I call that list full of baloney. You have nothing to worry about on that score.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Zarex, I'd explain it, but after all my explaining you still wouldn't understand, so why bother? Nothing personal *pat,pat*
That's not true, Mute. If you're extremely good-looking, you won't have to settle for gardener/poolboy/chauffer unless you rode the short bus
Seriously, though, that sounds like some major bitterness. I'm sure there are lots of guys on this board who are not rich, famous, powerful or unusually good looking, but still have women who love them.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
So here's the next question: where do I meet women when I'm a guy who's only socially proficient on the internet?
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
The internet?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Practice, practice, practice.
Talking to women, that is, in a normal, everyday way.
Find activities that you enjoy which are done in groups. Book clubs, cooking classes, activist organizations, whatever.
I'm not saying use these activities as ways to find people, though connections may happen, but as ways to work on your social skills.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Well I'm good around friends for the most part, but it's always awkward around new people (male or female, although usually more awkward around females). So my social skills aren't horrible, just not as good as they are online.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Dobie'ed! Its the first time this has happened to me, hurray!
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Can't help you there. I didn't figure out women until a little while after I went gay. At which point they were all over me.
Actually, that might be a good idea. Pretend to be gay. Wait 'till women are swooning over you. Announce suddenly that you think you may be bi. Slowly swing back over to straight. Enjoy.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
You know, I think that might work. Slash the Berzerker said he knew guys who did that to get chicks. Evidently, some women get a thrill out of 'converting' the gay boys. That shouldn't surprise anybody.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
And here I thought honesty was the best policy... [/sarcasm]
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Dishonesty sounds like a wonderful plan. Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
If all you want is to get laid, dishonesty works sometimes.
I don't think it's ever a good idea, and I'm not suggesting you do that. I'm just saying that I have heard it works. *shrug*
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
My objective is love, not getting laid. Still, I assumed you were half kidding anyways.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Rule 1: Don't hang around them. Rule 2: Out of the blue ask out the one you like or think is good looking (or whatever floats your boat) Rule 3: No expressing how you feel about them Rule 4: DO NOT BREAK RULE 3 until she's expressed how she feels. Rule 5: Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I probably should've added one of these at the end of my post.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Oh, pfresh, I was MORE than half kidding, promise.
I happened to be a woman who fell madly in love in college, and is still married to her first love. So... I'm not all about the meaningless flings, and wouldn't be able to give decent advice concerning them.
The best advice I can give you is to try to relax around girls, and not think too much about how badly you want to fall in love and be loved in return. *wince*
I know it's not terribly easy...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Part of the reason I'm on depression/anxiety medication is to control that part of me that thinks too much.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
It's easiest to ease into things. Just be friends at first--corny, I know, but it works. And chances are, the girl you have a crush on feels the same. Unless, of course, you're delusional enough to propose to Angelina Jolie.
Seriously, I got the surprise of my life when I found out half the girls I'd been toying with flirting with for a while had all had crushes on me in the past year. It's kinda scary, but it's hardly rare.
Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
I'm with Romany and chocolate. Also owning and having proof that you watch movies based on Jane Austin's books can't hurt...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
But I hate Jane Austen....
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Ugh. Try the Brontes. That'll really impress 'em.
In fact, if you see a girl you like reading a Bronte novel, see if you can draw her into conversation about it. Discuss it meaningfully. With this, you establish:
1. You're intelligent.
2. You're sensitive, I suppose.
3. You're probably interested in her, if you look more at her face than the novel.
4. You'll willingly interrupt someone who's deep in a good book, and are therefore probably a jerk. On second thought, don't initiate a conversation until she's set down the novel. Come to a stopping point, you see.
5. Erm . . . oh yeah. Ask if she'd like to go for coffee.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I hate Emily Bronte too. I'm a sensitive guy and all, but those books were poorly written in my opinion.
EDIT: And I still need advice where to meet said girls. Talking to girls in class is super awkward, and I don't see many girls out reading around campus.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Are you at college? If so, cafes, coffeeshops, that sort of thing. I'm in high school, so my advice on this point isn't perfect, but I've spent too much time with my friends at their universities not to have picked a few things up.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Do I have to drink coffee? If so, no dice.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Order hot chocolate and pretend it's coffee. Or order tea and act haughty and British. Call coffee the opiate of the masses.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think you're on to something with the hot chocolate and calling coffee the opiate of the masses.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
My drink when I need to hang out at a coffee shop is typically a steamer. It's steamed milk like they'd put in a cappacino (or latte or whatever, I don't know) but without the coffee. Often available in different flavors.
--Enigmatic (just don't order the Cleveland)
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't like milk really (not lactose intolerant, just haven't been able to stand milk ever since I was an infant). Also, I got the Cleveland joke/reference. *shudder*
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Perhaps you should avoid publicly disdaining coffee until you know that the lady in question is not a coffee aficionado. I rather doubt snubbing her preferred beverage would endear you to her. Posted by WntrMute (Member # 7556) on :
Bitter? Moi? Nooooooo, an acrimonious divorce and subsequent breakups could never do that.
Anyhow, it's been statistically demonstrated that, as it applies to men, wealth IS attractiveness. I didn't make it up, and it isn't just the bitterness. Though, to be sure, there is a little bitterness in it. Just a bit of bitter.
The total bitterness overload is when I say that you are better off in all ways without.
THAT'S bitter.
And for you fellas battin' for the other team, you're better off without a guy, too.
I'm just sayin'.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
This is part of my problem.
How can I be me, when I'm supposed to be something else to be 'attractive'.
I hate this damn game, and this hate is the very reason why I don't even try anymore.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I know the feeling. I was talking to Amanecer about this last night, and I said there are rules to this game and I don't particularly want to play by those rules. I don't like the game and just wished everything was a lot simpler and a lot more honest.
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
Different things are attractive to different people.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Isn't it wonderful how we know each other so much and how wonderful of a comunity we are? Everybody likes everybody in here. Ah, I wonder if anyone has any secret crushes on another Hatracker.
EDIT: *sips* Yeah, I hate coffee so I go with Green, English Breakfast and Earl Grey Teas instead. Does this make my binary identity any more intresting? I wonder...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't think I know anyone well enough to have secret crushes. I will agree that it's a good community though.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
No, no, pfresh. The appropriate response to Altariel is, "How, YOU doin'?"
Edit: Seriously, though. I think learning to be casually flirtatious, no pressure, can help. But it can also lead to causing girls to have crushes on you. So perhaps if you use this policy, only "casually flirt" with girls you wouldn't mind pursuing something with. Hmmm, maybe that doesn't work so well....
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
bev, I'm not Joey from Friends, although sometimes I wish I was. As for being "casually fliratious," I'm not sure I know how to do that.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I'm not sure either, to be honest. Not that it matters, since I am happily married. Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
thinking about being on a college campus, but not seeing many young women reading books... OK that's kinda weird
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Maybe I'm just not going to the right places? Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Well, I can see this thread is already longer than the "Men, how do I deal with them?" thread. Does that mean women are harder to deal with?
Or do men just whine more?
(I didn't even read the whole thread guys, just kidding with you) maybe.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I whine more than most men. I admit it. I'm a whineaholic. I'm addicted to whineahol. Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
I think this one has gone longer because it's asking about the general case, and the dealing with men thread was actually about a specific example.
Oops, that was too serious. Umm... women are crazy and men are dumb?
--Enigmatic
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
Agreed.
Posted by Uhleeuh (Member # 6803) on :
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion: Ah, I wonder if anyone has any secret crushes on another Hatracker.
About 10 minutes ago, I'd have to say I don't but since then I've read a landmark and I've changed my mind.
Okay, not really a crush; I don't work that way. He just got my attention. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Wow. That has got to be the best publicity for a landmark I've ever seen.
(Got me to take a peek. )
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
Why hasn't anyone mentioned going to the gym and getting buff?
Seriously. What Uhleeuh just said. Catching someone's attention is remarkably easy if you practice.
Oh, and a lot of people hide the fact that you have their attention. I can't count the number of times I've fallen for girls and thus became more distant.
The other ingredient I would say is required is access. If you have no way to regularly meet, then nothing will happen.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
The two problems I have are getting their attention and then having access to them in the first place. With getting their attention, it's hard because I've been told I come off aloof because I'm quiet, I don't smile readily, and my body language is "defensive." As for access, I just don't go out to places to meet women that much (or at all).
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Nothing wrong with wealth. But maybe I'm just sick of ex-boyfriends who owe me significant amounts of money.
And jebus, you're plenty hot just the way you are. *sidles over*
-pH
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
quote:But I hate Jane Austen....
Woah. Back this bus up. You hate Jane Austen? But, but, but... Pride and Prejudice, man! It's a textbook example of "the novel"TM, climaxes happen as they should almost to the page. Nevermind that Elizabeth Bennet is the poster girl for implicit trust in a narrator. And the book is witty and intelligent on the side.
Clearly your troubles with women are just a symptom of deeper problems with respect to your tastes in literature.
Next you're going to tell me that your favorite ninja turtle was Michelangelo.
Although, to your credit, if you can't be gay there are a lot of women who may dedicate themselves to making you like Jane Austen. Interesting angle you've got going there...
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
I hit on a lady at the library, She was at the banned books portion.
Okay, I didn't really hit on her, I just talked to her a bit about books and oh no the internet. I really just stated that banning books really doesn't do anything these days, with the internet you can read things online, or buy from anywhere and have it shipped. They didn't have any buttons with any 'cool' quotes, and I briefly looked around, and went about my library business. I probably came off as a complete goon. However I did notice she watched me as I went up the stairs all the way up to the third floor...
But, I don't play games, and I don't really want a game relationship, in fact I don't really want a relationship. Probably just a friendship. Yet, I don't want to close the door on a relationship either, except with my experience it's unlikely to be able to go from a friendship to a relationship.
Yeah, I'm dumb about relationships just like everyone else. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I just fail to see the point in pretending to be what I am not just to atract a person. My real self will come out anyway. Might as well warn the people about what they will get.
Posted by Ivanna Mann (Member # 8694) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: . . .I'm quiet, I don't smile readily, and my body language is "defensive."
This may sound weird, but I'm perfectly serious. This is something you can do something about, and I believe it will help you, and not just with girls. Practice smiling. It'll feel really unnatural at first, because it will be, but keep it up. Smile at yourself in the mirror every morning after you brush your teeth. Make it a point to smile for no reason at least five times during the day, preferably when you're out in public. Try to remember to smile every time you make eye contact with someone, and not just pretty girls. In fact, it'll probably be easier if you start with people substantially older than yourself, so there's less risk. you're not trying to pick anyone up, you're just being friendly.
Keep doing it until it's second nature to smile. Being quiet is fine, and you don't need to try to change that, but I bet as you get more used to smiling your body language will open up a little, too.
Anyway, eye contact and a smile is the best way there is to get people to smile back at you, and that's the first step towards meeting people. Start there. See how it goes. Don't worry about talking to a girl or asking her out. . . if there's a great opportunity, sure, take it, but for now just work on getting "happy" as your default expression, and try to get people to smile back at you. I think you'll find it makes a difference, both in meeting people and in your outlook on life.
<-- Big smile.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
raventh1-- *slap* You ARE attractive the way you are. Promise. Or have you forgotten what I told you at WenchCon II? Had I been unattached and, oh, ten to fifteen years younger...
You just haven't met the right girl yet.
Mute- this may sound weird, but I don't get the 'wealth' thing. I mean, I grew up in modest living arrangements (my dad was a sargeant in the Army). I went to college on scholarships, to a real 'Biff and Muffy' school.
And when some guy tried to impress me with his BMW, instead of being attracted... I generally found ways to utterly humiliate his @$$.
Wealth wasn't what I was after, and while I might be the only woman who ever felt that way, I kinda doubt it.
I always intended to support myself. If I was suddenly widowed or something, that's what I'd do. I have career status with the feds, I could go back and make enough to support my family.
I cannot imagine eliminating potential friends or whatever, based on their bank accounts. I find the idea repulsive.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Oh, and pfresh... do you have a job? See, I was thinking that the teenaged boys around here who WORK in the coffee shops and hang outs are often ideally placed to meet lots of girls.
If you're a waiter or something, then you HAVE to talk to them to do you job, even if it's just "What can I get for you Ladies?"
That kind of 'safe' exposure should help you untie your tongue. It may take a month or two, but you'll get used to it and begin to relax a bit.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:I can't count the number of times I've fallen for girls and thus became more distant
I'm sensing a flaw in the plan here.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
In regards to the smiling thing, it is very unnatural and maybe it does take practice. As for the "defensive" body language, most of that (I'm told) is the fact that I cross my arms when I'm standing around. I do that though because it's a more comfortable position for my arms (rather than just leaving them hanging at my side). I'll try though. No guarantees.
With respect to a job, I don't have one. School consumes most of my time when it's in session, and when it's out of session I can't get a job (apparently working at Baylor College of Medicine when you're in high school scares potential employers). If I had a job (particularly a waiter job or something of that nature), I could see it forcing me to be at least somewhat more social.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I like that advice, IM. I try to remember to do that, but am not always successful.
I have some additional advice:
Focus on getting yourself sorted out. If you can get to a place where you're happy* with yourself and your circumstances, that will show. I think that to maintain a healthy relationship you need to be healthy yourself. It's okay for your significant other to support you emotionally, but you never want that person to become a crutch.
I also think you're starting with the wrong premise: "I want a relationship." If you come at it from this perspective you're likely to fall head over heels for the first girl who gives you the time of day, even if she's completely wrong for you. What you want to do is meet women. Maybe you want to date some of them, and ultimately wind up in a relationship with one, but the meeting part comes first. Take it one step at a time.
If you get nervous and awkward around new people, the solution to this problem is to put yourself in situations where you have to interact with new people. Olivet's advice is sound. You'll find that people -- and, in particular, women -- aren't terrifying at all!
Added: Oh, yeah. Don't forget that there are awesome women all over the place.
*Note: "Happy with yourself and your circumstances" does not mean that you don't still have self-improvement goals! Having goals is really important. But you can be happy with yourself even if there are things you'd like to change.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Another note:
Cuddling/Snuggling from women may not always = Romantic Interest.
Posted by luthe (Member # 1601) on :
Something of a mixed signal then.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Got that right.
Posted by luthe (Member # 1601) on :
Yet still we wonder why no one has any clue what is going on.
Posted by Amateur Lyricist (Member # 8698) on :
She’s there. Right there. Right where you wanted her to be.
In your arms, In your eyes, And you, you think, you hope, are there in hers.
But are things as they now appear to be? Why can't things seem the way they are? It’s hard to tell. It’s hard to know. It’s hard to see what’s there and what is here. Right here. In my heart. And what exists in this reality.
There’s a smile. Then a glance. Do they pierce or are they surface deep?
You don’t know. Can’t know. You want to ask, but then again no you don’t.
On your end It seems it may be one But on hers something else entirely. It’s hard to tell. It’s hard to know. It’s hard to see what’s there and what is here. Right here. In my heart. And what exists in this reality.
From one week. To one night. God, for once, please let me be right.
But if I’m not Then let it Be. Your will is mine or soon I’ll make it be.
Some day I’ll know Why you answer no Right now it’s just so hard to understand. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yeah, the cuddling thing is true sometimes. Sometimes, we use cuddling in the hopes that we'll get physically close enough for us to be able to make a move. Because when your faces are already close together, it's so much easier to lean a few inches over and steal a kiss.
Then again, sometimes we cuddle with our male friends because it's comfy.
We're a confusing bunch, aren't we?
Oh, and breaking yourself of the crossed arms habit definitely takes some conscious effort. I usually like to be holding something in one hand so that it's more difficult to cross my arms. That's one of the reasons I drink so much diet soda at concerts.
-pH
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
quote: Some helpful advice:
1). Listen to what she has to say, don't just talk about yourself. If you get her talking about her interests, you'll be able to see whether you have anything in common, and go from there.
2). If what she says sounds like the most idiotic thing you've ever heard, let it go. No matter how cute she is, if you can't respect her opinions it will not end well.
3). If she spends all her time with you mooning about some other guy and saying what a good friend you are, face up to the fact that you are not even an 'also ran' and get on with your life.
4). Learning to communicate with the opposite sex is hard. She may not actually be saying what you think you heard, and she may not be hearing what you think you said. Trust me on that one.
Olivia says it like it is, folks. These are Words of Truth. Take 'em to heart.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Yeah, and we'll cuddle with guy friends who are 'safe' just because.
In college, there was this guy names Scotty that I always greeted with a hug. We danced at the school dances. He was cute and sweet and probably gay (I think he had a thing for one of my ex boyfriends... I let him use some pictures i had of the guy for a prank. I got all the blame, though.)
Anyway, one evening I came into the cafeteria and saw Scotty (with his back to me) at the Salad Bar. The lighting was dim, but the vaguely puffy shape and light brown/dark blond curls were there.
I ran up to him from behind, threw my arms around him and put my head on his shoulder and said, "Aw, Scotty, I've had a HORRIBLE day!"
It wasn't Scotty. I cringed and appologized, explaining that I thought he was somebody else (I thought the shoulder had been a little high...).
"I didn't mind at all," quoth the leering heterosexual.
*MEEP* That did not improve my day AT ALL.
I lost touch with Scotty, because he didn't come back the next year. I really liked him. But not, you know, THAT way.
I've also been similarly friendly with guys I thought were gay, only to find out they were not gay and liked me. Which made me feel horrible. Edit: because I never wanted to mislead anyone, or be a tease.
Further Edit: Thank you, Taalcon. Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Guys you like to cuddle with but have no feelings for are, quite simply, dicks in a glass case. Break in case of emergency. So says Chris Rock (more or less).
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: You females confuse me yet attract me. I can't interact well with any of you though. So tell me, how do I deal with women?
(Note: This is partly meant as a parody of the other thread and partly serious. Reply to whichever part you like.)
quote:And jebus, you're plenty hot just the way you are. *sidles over*
Oh wow, ummm, jeez... ::reads Olivet's list::
Wanna have sex?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Re: the ladder.
At least in my case, it is not a money thing. It's a confidence thing. Men are attractive when they are happy with what they do and are good at it. One side effect of this is (often) money.
Bonus advice: Do not try this pick-up line.
"Geez, Kate, you're not getting any younger."
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I've read the ladder theory enough times, and I see some of the truths in it. As for the confidence thing, I don't think confidence and happiness necessarily lock in that way for me. I'm happy with the person I am and what I am doing. I lack confidence though, mainly because I overanalyze stuff to the point of doubt.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
So don't give yourself time to think it over.
Posted by WntrMute (Member # 7556) on :
Ok. Brace yourselves: [serious] kmbboots hit the nail on the head. Just be confident. Stand up straight and proud. FEEL proud. If you see someone who attracts your interest, walk up and use the most certain pick up line, ever. "Hi, my name is.... and you are?" and then chat for a little while. If she blows you off, it's her loss, and walk away. But smirk at her first, because you know something that she doesn't. Which is that she missed her chance with you. Don't get wrapped up in how you are unworthy, because if you think that way, you are. Before you go out, make a list of reasons why you are attractive, why you are a catch. And don't just think it, KNOW it. That is why rich, powerful, famous, and/or wealthy guys do well with women. That's why jerks who treat women like garbage do better than they ought, too. Such men are confident in who they are. Don't get too big-headed in a "God's gift to women" way, and you'll be ok. [/serious] But you are really better off without.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't need time to overthink it. In the second or so after a girl and I have made eye contact, I will have had hundreds of thoughts, many of them negative outcomes (why negative? Because I'm a depressed pessimist).
In regards to WntrMute, I have a hard time with this. I like who I am, I'm happy with who I am, and I think quite a few girls would be lucky to be with me. The catch is that in my head (that thing that overthinks everything into infinity) that I don't believe most other people see it (aside from close friends and family). So I lose confidene quite quickly. I think "Well she won't see the good stuff until she gets to know me, and going from past events, by the time she gets to know me I've already been lumped into the friend group (which is nearly impossible to get out of)." So yeah, it's no good.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
pfresh85,
One more helpful hint:
Negative is not attractive.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Tell me about it.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
So...fake it. Whine only to people you have no interest in dating. Really old friends, family, or therapists are best 'cuz they are stuck with you. Think about qualities that attract you. I mean, would you be attracted to a self-proclaimed "depressed pessimist"? How fun!
At some point (barring medical issues for which you should consult a doctor) the faking it may become real and you will be both happier and more attractive.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
That faking it takes it back to the level of playing the game.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Unfortunately, faked confidence can come off as cockiness--or worse.
It is nice for those who have confidence, but for those who don't it really is tough. But genuine confidence *can* be gained over time.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
It seems a vicious cycle in my mind. To have confidence, you need to succeed, but to succeed you must have confidence.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Baby steps....
You have enough confidence to succeed in reasonable ways. Start small and keep at it.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
If you fake it for long enough it'll become real. If you're faking it with a goal of making it real, is it still playing a game?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Maybe it's the depression talking, but I don't see initial baby steps. I say one huge leap and then baby steps afterwards.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That is the depression talking. Have you tried talking to a counselor? Sometimes just going for a few months can make a world of difference.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:That faking it takes it back to the level of playing the game.
So?
Is it really any different than wearing nice clothes on a date when you like lounging around in sweats?
I'm not suggesting you make things up or be a totally different person. Just refrain from whining about how girls don't like you, or talking about how you're depressed. Find things to discuss that you can be positive about (think about this ahead of time).
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
jebus: I'll be right over.
It CAN be a big leap...it depends on what method you use.
-pH
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
katharina, I did see a psychologist for 6 weeks during the summer (due to some of this stuff), and he couldn't help me too much. He directed me to a psychiatrist, which I saw last week. I'm now on medication for my depression and anxiety (in fact today is day 8 of medication), but as of now I'm still depressed and feeling lousy.
kmbboots, I don't whine or talk about how I'm depressed in front of girls. The problem in general is that I don't talk to girls at all.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Okay. Stick with it. Life is better when you're happy.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I plan to. The psychiatrist did tell me in the first week or so of medication, it is normal to feel more depressed and anxious than usual (at least for some periods). I think the last day or two may have been that.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:Is it really any different than wearing nice clothes on a date when you like lounging around in sweats?
No, it really *is* different. Dressing up isn't exhausting. Trying to be outgoing and confident when you are a shy, insecure, introvert works for short bursts, but it wears you out and it isn't true to your nature. I've been through this so many times....
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
You know, pfresh, sometimes it just takes the right chemistry with the right person. Certain people can just bring out the best in me. Of course I love to be around them. Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
bev, you hit it right on the head. I can dress nice to go out and it doesn't bother me or work me. To be confident and all, it drains me and quite quickly at that.
EDIT: That may be the case, but that means I haven't met the right person yet.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You can be introverted and still confident and devastatingly attractive.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:You can be introverted and still confident and devastatingly attractive.
Yes, but I haven't succeeded at that. Yet. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote: The problem in general is that I don't talk to girls at all.
Girls in general? Women in general (variety of ages)? Girls that you find attractive?
Maybe there are some "non-intimidating" girls you could get to know? A) It would be good practice and (best of all) B) you might discover that, once you get to know each other, they are more attractive than you thought. And you've already been talking to them!
Must go to a meeting now. I hope you have better luck today. Talk to you tomorrow.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Girls, women, whatever. The female sex around my age. Hopefully that works better. I mean I have some female friends my age I can talk to, but even with them, I socialize better online that in person. As for "non-intimidating" girls, I'm not sure they exist. All girls are intimidating, for one reason or another.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:jebus: I'll be right over.
And there you have it, phresh. See how easy it is? Just a couple of jokes and you're golden.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, but I have a hard time being funny until I'm comfortable around the person and that never happens at the start. As I said earlier, by the time I am comfortable and most girls get to know and like the real me, they've already put me in the friend category.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I've heard imagining that the person you're talking to is in their underwear helps make you feel more at ease. You should try it next time you're chatting up a girl.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:they've already put me in the friend category.
Not all women have a "friend" category. I never did. Granted, I had a "not interested" category, but I usually don't become friends with such guys anyway. But I am notorious for becoming attracted to males that I have been "just friends" with.
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of women do have a "friend" category, particularly ones who know they can get the sort of man they want.
As a family member of mine once put it, the best girls are the ones who are attractive (whole person, not just physical) and don't know it. Like Alt. Posted by Art Vandelay (Member # 8690) on :
I don't know if you've gotten this advice already, but if you're not comfortable around girls - fake it.
They won't know, and once they're laughing you'll feel at ease and you will be comfortable. I don't like meeting girls when I go out to bars. I feel stupid, like everyone knows something that I don't. You know what I do? I make myself go up to the biggest group of cute girls I can find, and I make a joke. Usually they laugh, and a lot of times they complain that guys don't talk to them. I explain that guys are terrified of large groups of girls because they know they're being judged.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I know this sucks, but it is all about practice. Social interaction is a learned skill. I know. I am also an introvert and cringe inside at meeting new people. I have a job that requires it, though, so I practice and eventually it got easier. Now, most casual acquaintances think I'm outging. Hah! But, I am more outgoing than I was.
You don't have to be the center of attention; just start by "showing up" and refrain from being too negative.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I'm introverted. I used to be shy and somewhat insecure, too, but I worked on my confidence while I was in university and now I think I'm at least somewhat confident. Certainly when I was in high school I would never have dated girls I met at random on trains. Either way, I'm still introverted.
A side effect was that I became even more arrogant, though. Something else to work on...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by jebus202: I've heard imagining that the person you're talking to is in their underwear helps make you feel more at ease. You should try it next time you're chatting up a girl.
I think that would make it worse. In fact, I can't imagine it making it easier. Maybe if you are speaking in front of a group, it works. I think one on one, it doesn't.
As for what bev said, I think most of my female friends have at least a few guys interested in them, so they have a variety to pick from. I'm typically overlooked though.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It is funny how outgoing is so often associated with confidence. People are often surprised when someone social and convival is insecure.
There is some connection, but I think gregariousness has more to do with how much someone needs to talk to another person. A higher need to interact means that reaching out requires a much lower threshold of confidence.
quote:I'm typically overlooked though.
Have you asked them out?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I have, and I get a line similar to "Let's not risk our friendship since it's so good" which I translate as "I'm not interested in you since I've got better guys to be interested in." Or something along those lines.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Sue your babel fish. That's just not right.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Well my female to male translator has always been at least a little off... Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
I've been hooked on one girl for WAY too long, I've tried the wrong way, pushed it a little too ffar through a diversion and failed to get the right hints from the right people at the right times, at the right places about it all.
I was told that I had a creative method of trying to hit. I was foolish to choose it with the wrong person. I'll make a financial analogy:
Before making any profit, I had to settle a debt with my revenue; only thing was I didn't know there wasn't any interest, so I 'settled' a debt I thought was bigger. I wasted my resources and got no profit out of it. The receiver of the money, unfortunately, is in first-degree blood-connection to an accountant. An accounted who apparently didn't want me to make any money.
I don't know if it backfired or not, and how it did (or didn't), but I've been leered at, and it's scary.
If you didn't get what I just said, you must realise it was no easier for me. I've almost given up on the whole thing.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I've always wondered about people who have low self-confidence. I'm one of them, really. I wodner how much is accurate and how much is environment-based.
This is when I started to realize some of it might be the latter. This past summer I spent at my state's honors program, six weeks at a university. Isolated, I made completely different friends. New friends.
And here's the thing. I'd mention I was attracted to some one, then follow that with "but he's out of my league". And my friend would shake her head and say no. And I was complimented. And that surprised and startled me.
I really started wondering about my friends and my self-image. If compliments truly and completely surprise me . . . I mean, I felt like I had a helium baloon in my chest, swelling up and lifting me off the ground a bit. I felt better about myself. Then I got back, and, well, it's like it started to drain. Beaten down, losing my lift, you know?
My point here is double, since I've been thinking a lot about it lately. For all those here who have said in this thread they doubt how attractive they are--in intelligence, physical appearance, personality, whatever--consider how much is a self-image you've built yourself. How much is your friends. And ask yourself what self-image you're giving your friends, too.
This sounds preachy, I know. But this is what I'm trying to build. I'm trying to compliment people more, true, sincere compliments, and say fewer negative things--even in jest, because people take a bit of that seriously. And the difference is, well, wow.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
My low self-confidence is all my own fault. My friends are typically encouraging and try to raise my self-confidence.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Hey, pfresh, what kinds of activities do you like doing? Got anything you're good at? Something you enjoy?
Oh, and give those antidepressants a little more time to work. You should feel much better in a few weeks. If you don't, tell your psychiatrist and see about switching medications.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Oh, I plan to give them more time to work. The psychiatrist said it can take 2-3 weeks to kick in. I have an appointment with him 2 weeks from yesterday (so basically the 3 week point). If the medication hasn't started working by then, I think he's either going to up the dosage or put me on something else.
As for your other questions, I don't know. I don't really do a whole lot of activities. I spend most of my time in my apartment either studying, watching TV, playing games, reading, or sitting online. Not much activity there. The same thing for what am I good at. The only thing I can offer up is academics. So yeah, not a whole lot going on with me there.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Hmm...have you thought about picking up a new activity once you start feeling better? What's something that you've always wanted to do but never actually tried?
I started doing some new things in high school and college. For example, I like to make pottery for fun. I take classes over the summer break. I joined my high school yearbook staff. I do Aikido, a Japanese martial art, while I'm here at school. I volunteer with a service organization that works with fifth graders from low-income families. Activities are a good way to meet people (including females) in a comfortable, non-demanding setting. You'll probably have a boost in self-confidence as you get better at whatever it is you do, and you'll have something nifty to talk about. Just make sure that whatever you choose to do is something that puts you in contact with other people.
Anyhow, being involved in these things has been beneficial for me. Why don't you see what your campus or community has to offer?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I've looked into clubs and such here at school, but almost all don't interest me. The few that have interested me I tried, but it didn't work out too well.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
pfresh,
I've been thinking more about your situation. Maybe part of the problem is having something to talk about. This is where clubs, etc. come in handy. You automaically have something to talk about.
What does interest you? Maybe you could start a club?
Another thing might be that you seem to see "girls" as a group. We are all different. "How do I talk to girls?", is the wrong question. Maybe you should be asking, "How do I talk to Annabelle (or Stacy, or Karen, etc.)?" Then you could tailor your approach to an individual and that might give you some clues as to what might interest her. It is also more flattering to the girl to be considered as an individual rather than "a girl". It makes her feel that you think that she is special.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That works on specific cases Kmbboots. But what if he's just in a bar and is attracted to a girl? or in a class and wants to strike up a conversation?
Impossible to tailor your approach when you don't even know the girl, and that's probably half the problem, holding a conversation the first time you meet the girl in question so you last long enough to actually find out her name and can get to special interests and what not. Sure they are all different, but you don't know until you work your way in and find out. So the challenge is HOW do you work your way in and find out?
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
You say "Hi". I make friends with women in the same way I make friends with men, finding out what they're interested in, talking about it, and sharing what I'm interested in when it comes up. Too many people buy into the hype that men and women are these totally different and ultimately mysterious creatures, when that just isn't true.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Well, whatever class you're in could be a conversation starter. Ask about the homework, comment on the style of the professor, wondering what interested the young lady in the class to begin with. If there is class discussion and she says something, you could comment on that. "I really liked what you said about Robespierre. I've never looked at him that way. Have you read Quigly's biography?"
Here is where the club thing could come in handy, too.
The girl in the bar is tougher. First (depending on the type of bar). They are loud (making it hard to talk anyway) and people are going to assume that conversation is not really your aim. We already know why you're talking to us - the only thing you know about us is what we look like - and that's the only thing we know about you. Not a good plan unless you are gorgeous or it's late and folks are drunk and desperate. Bleh.
And WHY do you want to "work your way in" if the only thing you know about her is what she looks like?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Lyrhawn hit what I was going to say before I said it. Once I know the girl and know her interests/hobbies/etc., then I'm a little bit better. It's getting over that inital hump that's hard and that I'm having difficulty with.
As for what Bob said, I don't make many men friends either, although I'm admittedly not trying to either.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I've always found that there are a few basic things you can comment on or ask about to start conversations with strangers, depending on the situation. Granted, I'm dealing with men, but it can't be that much more difficult for women.
For example, if you're in a bar with a pool table, challenge her and her friends to a game. It gives you the opportunity to actually start a conversation. I'm a big fan of pool halls and bars with pool halls.
If it's a class, like everyone said before, ask what she thinks of the professor, or how she figured out X homework problem, or what she thinks of that kind of thing.
Concert? Easy. Music. Clearly, she likes it. Ask her if she went to so-and-so's show, or if she's planning on going to another one in the future.
Where do you usually meet these girls that you're interested in?
-pH
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't. That's a point I think I brought up back on page 1 or 2. In class, a girl might catch my eye or spark my interest, but it never goes past that. Beyond class though, I encounter few people. I don't go to bars or anything similar. I don't really go out (I don't like to), and I think that's a large part of the problem.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:Well, whatever class you're in could be a conversation starter. Ask about the homework, comment on the style of the professor, wondering what interested the young lady in the class to begin with.
Some guy started a conversation with me over the magic square I was working on in Linguistics, so clearly this is an accepted and practiced technique. He said "Is that for a class or are you doing that for fun?"
I thought of this thread, heh.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Bars are not a great way to really get to know people anyway. (See above). "Going out", though, may be a wider group of activites than you think. And a college campus has lots of possibilities.
Study in the library rather than your room.
Go to concerts of all different kinds of music - classical, too! Lectures. Plays. Religious services. Demonstrations.
You won't have to talk to anyone, but all of these things will widen your interests and make you more interesting. Being more interesting will give you stuff to talk about. Give you something to offer. And you will start seeing familiar faces and maybe once you've seen them a couple of times you could start a conversation - now that you know something about her.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
pfresh: What I mean is, though, that it's not GOING to go past that unless you can come up with some kind of casual conversation-starter, like the ones mentioned on the last page.
And I was asking where you usually ran into women that you had any interest in whatsoever. So I guess the answer is "class."
-pH
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
With respect to the library, I'm sort of afraid to go there when I study. Why? Because it's a 10-15 minute walk from my apartment to the library, and I study at night. While the library itself (and most of the campus) might be safe, I don't feel safe walking around a whole lot at night, particularly not with some of the stories I've heard (both from people and from the newspaper).
Concerts are a no go as well, because my hearing is too good. Any loud music (which I think covers most concerts and even some other type of events) really bothers my ears, even if I do put ear plugs in or something.
Religious services are a possiblity that I've considered, but it does involve me stomaching a lot of things (I can go into that more if you'd like).
As for pH's comment, well I distinguished between "meet" and "see/observe." I don't meet many women period. I do see some girls that I might be interested in (they may be attractive or they may have said something really intelligent/clever/funny in class). So I guess "class" works as an answer.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Well, honey, if you basically just hang around in your room, what are the two of you going to do together whan and if you do meet someone? Barring the obvious.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
That's what I don't know, and it's one of the things that makes me doubt whether I can actually date and/or have a relationship. That in turns makes me more depressed. Not a good thing.
On a side note, I'm on day 10 of my depression/anxiety medication. Day 8 and 9 have been more depressing than prior to the medication. Day 10 doesn't look much better.
EDIT: There are some things to do an apartment beside that. You could watch TV or a movie or something, you could play games, you could have a nice meal, maybe just sit on a couch and talk.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Small steps.
What about going to a lecture? Campuses have talks on different topics all the time.
Classical music concerts aren't all that loud - especially if you stick to music earlier than Beethoven.
Games. What games do you like to play? Are there goups on campus that play these games? Maybe start one? Just put up a poster and find a room.
"nice meal". Do you cook? Maybe find some folks interested in that.
Having a nice meal or sitting and talking still require having something to talk about. Finding a common interest (which will be easier once you expand your interests) will give you something to discuss. And give a foundation for a relationship.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
You can do this.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'd make a reply, but I think it'd turn into an angry tirade. Not anger at you or anyone on Hatrack, I'm not sure at what. I'm just mad and I don't feel like venting on Hatrack will get me anywhere.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Some things you can do while you wait for the antidepressants to kick in: go for a walk in the sun, eat chocolate, or watch a funny movie. I've found these things useful.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Didn't mean to make you angry. I misunderstood and thought you were looking for ideas. If you just want to vent, that's okay, too. I'll shut up and feel sympathetic.
That's not sarcastic. There is nothing more annoying than solutions when you just really want a good wallow. Sorry.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
You didn't make me angry, kmbboots. The situation makes me angry, the solutions make me angry.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Listen to Shigosei and have some chocolate. If you tell me you're allergic to chocolate, I'll climb through the computer and beat you about the ears!
Hang in there. It's never easy, but it will get better.
[ October 10, 2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'm not allergic. I just don't have any more sweets around the apartment. I've eaten almost all of them in the last few days.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Maybe you'll meet your soulmate while at the grocery store!
I'm done for the day; time to go home. Have a good weekend, pfresh. "See" you Monday.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Thanks. I'll probably head to the grocery store this weekend sometime. I'm going out for dinner with my brother and some of his friends who are here for the big UT/OU game .
Posted by archon (Member # 8008) on :
The answer to your troubles is that there is no answer. You can look for a girl all your life and maybe you'll find one and maybe not. Alternatively you can NOT look for one and perhaps you'll luck out and she'll just show up in your life. What I suggest is just putting yourself out there, as many before me have suggested. Make small talk and realize that it's only just small talk. Do it, but don't expect anyone to bring you any happiness. Your problem isn't that you don't have anyone to love/love you. I was the same way but then I got over it and things got better and have stayed better.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Part of it is a love thing, I'll give you that. The thing is though I'm happy with myself as I am and the life I lead (or at least for the most part in the circumstances I'm in). I want love, marriage, and a family though. The problem arises though to get those things I need to be changing who I am, and that's what I'm not happy with. I'm okay with minor changes, but a lot of these changes are making me someone who isn't me. Sorry if that doesn't make sense; that's the easiest way I can explain it.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I think that going into meeting people of the opposite sex with the idea that you're looking for love and/or marriage puts way too much pressure on the situation.
Then again, I'm very weird about pressure and commitment. My mother always discouraged me from having steady boyfriends when I lived at home. She wanted me to "get out there and meet people."
-pH
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Maybe it is more pressure. It's just in my mind I don't need anymore friends.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
No, pH, you're right. I can't think of many situations that go "I'm depressed and can't meet people, but if I just had a wife everything would be wonderful" that end in marriage, of if they do, end well.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Or nice Cajun disaster gumbo, come to think of it.
Posted by K.T. (Member # 8665) on :
So, pfresh, when you are married and have children are you still planning to hang around the house, watch movies, play games, and eat? Kids need activities. They need to have experiences in the world. If your ultimate goal is to have a wife and family, maybe you should try to imagine the kind of family you would like to have one day. What kind of memories do you want your family to make together? When you decide, figure out what you need to do to make those memories for them a possibility.
I loved playing sports with my family. I loved singing around the piano. I loved playing Uno all day on Christmas. I loved playing in the snow and making snow forts.
The possibilities are endless!!!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Excuse me first if I end up sounding very angry and/or irritable. I'm sick (definitely at this point, I was unsure before), I have a bad headache, I think I'm becoming obsessive compulsive, and I'm still in a bad mood. That out of the way, here we go.
I'm not saying that I think having a wife and a family is going to fix everything. I think people are reading into this or something. I'm fine with my life. I may not like the school I go to, but I can tolerate it for another year or so to finish up my degree. I'm going to be happy with my job (this I'm at least fairly sure about). I generally like the things I do with my time.
The problem is planning for the future (which I'm always doing). I would like to be married and have a family at that point. Some of you may be saying "you're only 20, no need to concern yourself with it now," but I'd prefer to be concerned with it now. I don't want to try to start having a family when I'm 30. I'd like to start in my mid-20's, which means I need to start meeting women now.
If there was a guarantee that I was never going to get married, then I don't know that this post would even exist. I'd probably be absorbed in something else. But there is a possibility and that's what I'm focused on. When I saw a psychologist in the summer, he said I had the obsessive part of obsessive compulsive disorder (and it looks like I may be getting the compulsive now). When I have a problem or something that's concerning me, it becomes my major focus, even when I'm doing other stuff or thinking about other things. With the odds looking against me though, because I don't want to play by the rules and because I don't want to majorly change myself, I'm not happy.
And K.T., I think you made a major leap that lead you into error. Or maybe you're basing it too much on your version of what family life is. With my family, we didn't do a whole lot of stuff outside of the house as a family (other than eating out and occasionallly doing tree planting). We did play a lot of board games and card games, we watched TV and movies, and other such things. If our parents were busy, my brother, my sister, and I would play with toys or play a board game or a video game or something. Outside of the house, all of us kids had sports we played and that our parents watched. When (or should I say if) I become apparent, I'd want a similar type of family life. I'd like get my kid into a sport and be in the stands to cheer him or her on. I'd like to play board games and such at home with the kids. Maybe I'm just different in that though.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:I can't think of many situations that go "I'm depressed and can't meet people, but if I just had a wife everything would be wonderful" that end in marriage, of if they do, end well.
He doesn't mean that, I don't think. He means that right now he is in a position which doesn't seem to be leading to where he sees himself in five or ten years. He doesn't mean he's looking for "her" but that he's looking to get on the right road that leads to "her".
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Not that different, pfresh. That sounds a lot like my childhood. We did boardgames and (gasp!) videogames and dinner and movies as a family, and I think we turned out alright. (Well, okay, dkw went and married some strange guy she met on the internet, but other than that... )
When I was in college I focused a lot on dating and all of that too. I'm 27 now. I'm not married, but I've had several nice relationships and am currently dating a video game designer. I think people just want to make sure you're not obsessing over dating, because that's one of the catch-22 situations: if you're trying too hard to meet women you can seem needy or creepy or whatever.
Bottom line is: Compromise is sometimes necessary in a relationship, but it shouldn't be compromising the core of your personality, and it shouldn't be before you even meet the person. It's better to find someone who likes who you are than to change into what you think women want.
Everyone has different tastes, and one of them wants to taste you. Er, that didn't come out quite right but you get what I mean.
--Enigmatic
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You're dating a video game designer?
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
It is NOT John Romero and I want you to stop all of these nasty rumors!
Er, I mean, yes. I thought I'd mentioned that before. Guess not?
--Enigmatic
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Well, not that part, I guess. Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I think that's part of the problem, Enigmatic. I think some of the girls whose tastes I would match are probably similar to me in that they stay at home and do stuff rather than going out a whole lot. If they are staying at home, how do you meet them? It's a conundrum.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
On the internet!
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Hey baby.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Well, the only reason I included that detail here is for reinforcement of the idea that you can be the sort of person who likes staying in and playing games and still get dates.
--Enigmatic
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You chatting up me or pfresh? I'm already dating someone I met on the internet, sorry.
Added: I am talking to Joldo. Engimatic is not chatting me up. Although I do need to ask him if he's up for another Serenity screening this weekend.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Papa Moose said it on page 1, but people may have taken it as a joke. There is nothing wrong with meeting people on the internet! People talk about "what if the other person is some crazy seriel killer?" but there's the same risk of lunacy if you pick someone up in a bar or night club.
If you don't want to use an actual personals site, there's always the possibility of meeting someone with similiar interests in a forum or chattroom about said interests. Notice anything about where we're having this conversation?
--Enigmatic
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
ElJay: I was going to suggest family Serenity Matinee on Sunday before dinner, actually. Mom would go again, and I don't think Dad's seen it yet.
--Enigmatic
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I'm on a few personals sites, just haven't had much luck yet. As for forums, I'm a member of several, so I guess that's always one path to look down.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ppffft. People don't actualy get married to people they meet on Hatrack, right? That would be crazy. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Oh, I totally agree with meeting people on the Internet. The law student I'm dating right now (looky! He's not in a band, though he used to be, he's never been a drug dealer, and he's going to have a REAL job when he grows up! ) is someone I met off of Myspace.
My biggest concern with the not being worried about marriage thing isn't necessarily about not being focused on DATING, really...focusing on dating is fun sometimes. It's just that I think if you're going to have fun dating, trying to evaluate every date by figuring out what your kids are going to look like when they're fifteen just creates way too much mental pressure for YOU.
My best personal example of this comes from an occasion when I had agreed to marry a guy I'd only actually been in a relationship with for a week (calm yourselves; I knew him for a couple of years before that). The idea that we were going to get married caused a whole lot of problems between us, since it came so early on and essentially framed our relationship. We weren't just two people who enjoyed being together anymore. Even though the two of us had agreed on it, it really wasn't a good idea to go into the relationship thinking like that, and it caused a lot of strain.
I WANT to be married, clearly. After all, I was planning on being married at twenty-two to this particular man. However, the idea of marriage is kind of a scary one, when you think about it. It tends to stress me out a lot.
So be careful how you approach dating.
-pH
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
pfresh, fess up: you're Hatrack Crush, aren't you? Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Not me. I have no Hatrack crushes at the moment, so why would I make a post like that?
Posted by K.T. (Member # 8665) on :
quote:
And K.T., I think you made a major leap that lead you into error. Or maybe you're basing it too much on your version of what family life is.
quote:
I'm sorry if what I said was taken badly. I guess I didn't express what I meant very well, as one of my talents is not meeting people on the internet. I was trying to say (also referring to what a few other people suggested) that you may want to think about the kinds of things you want your future family to do together. Then use those ideas as a jumping board for getting involved in things now that would help you meet people (hopefully girls).
Sorry if what I said was offensive. It was not meant to be so.
Posted by K.T. (Member # 8665) on :
Okay, I really don't get this quote thing. *grumbles*
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I apologize if I came off overly harsh, K.T.. I just felt like you were saying one thing, which you may not have been intending.
EDIT: Do [ QUOTE ] and [ /QUOTE ] without the spaces.
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: In class, a girl might catch my eye or spark my interest, but it never goes past that.
What do you do to catch her interest?
Smiling at first eye contact is step one. So many people wont even look at other people, just looking does wonders. It is like saying "hi".
Then learn what other steps to take. Saying "hi" for real. I've said hi to many strangers and been welcomed with a hi back. It always surprises me. In high school someone said hi to me and saying hi was so foreign to my tounge, I was speechless and didn't know what to say and just kept walking... Needless to say, I then had a crush on the girl for noticing me and she avoided me like the plague because I didn't say hi back.
Time has passed...
I have decided a few times to flirt with girls just to flirt even though they intimidated me to death. I wasn't faking, they were fun to flirt with. I was faking that I was comfortable around them. I was so emotionally drained afterwards because it was so hard. But it was a real confidence builder and I can be more normal around girls now because I am less intimidated.
Oh, and I hate being "Safe". Married girls flirt with me all the time and I coundn't figure it out. Finally a friend told me that I was "Safe", meaning, they could flirt with me because I was never going to do anything about it.
And, yes, I learned that acting distant around girls I was interested in was really stupid. Anyway, I brought it up because I've seen the same reaction from some girls.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote: The problem is planning for the future (which I'm always doing). I would like to be married and have a family at that point. Some of you may be saying "you're only 20, no need to concern yourself with it now," but I'd prefer to be concerned with it now. I don't want to try to start having a family when I'm 30. I'd like to start in my mid-20's, which means I need to start meeting women now.
That's how I feel. I'm 21, and I'm incredibly stressed about meeting someone. I console myself with the fact that between school and work, I don't have time for a relationship anyway, so there's no reason to really freak out about it. But I want to have a family in my late 20's, I don't want to be just starting to think about it in my late 20's.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
The other thing I might add for why I'm worried now is that I doubt I'll meet any women once I get done with college. I'll be done with college next year (next school year that is), and I'll only be 22. Then it'll be off to the real world of a job and everything, and I have doubts that I'll meet anyone then (or it'll be a lot harder). So yeah, worries are on my head. That's how it goes for me.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I'm "safe", but only because I'm gay. Of course, the gay guys I know think I'm just a really secure straight guy, so I'm "safe" for them, too.
And don't worry about the future. You're 22. You've got a while before you get close to hopeless loner stage.
ElJay: Yes, I am chatting you up. So . . . You a pirate? 'Cause that's some fine booty.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
EDIT: Huh? What triple post? Where?
[ October 09, 2005, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Joldo ]
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Wow, triple post. And I'm 20 at the moment, I was just theorizing the 22 part. Also, as I said, I worry about the future because I don't want to be the hopeless loner in my late 20's.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Joldo: That happened to my gay boyfriend in high school! He was still in the closet, and his parents were getting worried that he wasn't spending enough time with girls, so he and I "dated" for quite a long time.
But we used to go to the gay coffeehouse together, and all of the guys there just assumed he was straight. They were really surprised when they found out otherwise.
-pH
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I thought this was an interesting stat that I got offline. It's based off personality tests and such.
If I went on 100 dates:
36 of them I would like her 27 of them she would like me 33 of them neither of us would like the other 4 of them we would like each other
Kind of scary that. I thought it was interesting though, so up it goes on the good old thread.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
... you know there's nothing in these internet statistics, right?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I know you can make statistics out to say anything. Thanks for taking away my fun though, Teshi. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Well, I think the "both like each other" number for dates must be higher given the fact that one of you already asked the other out and the askee said okay so at least the inital attraction is already there. This is also assuming you'd never actually got to know her beforehand and knew nothing about her.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Maybe they define "like" as "would want a second date" type of thing. I don't know. I didn't read the fine print.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Pfresh, have you considered giving women chocolate? That's my fallback, when all else fails: bake chocolatey things.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I've tried. This is my reenactment of what happens then.
I give them something chocolate (example: brownies) They take the brownies and say "Wow, you can cook?" They eat the brownies and say "Wow, these are really good." They finish the brownies and then ask for the recipe. They then proceed to leave or get distracted by someone/something else.
EDIT: I meant this as a humorous anecdote, so don't take it super seriously. I'm just poking fun at how any time I cook anything, I get surprise out of the females who enjoy it.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I make dark chocolate fudge with cinnamon and raspberries inside. After I serve that up, they latch on.
Which, come to think of it, isn't much use to me.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:My best personal example of this comes from an occasion when I had agreed to marry a guy I'd only actually been in a relationship with for a week (calm yourselves; I knew him for a couple of years before that). The idea that we were going to get married caused a whole lot of problems between us, since it came so early on and essentially framed our relationship. We weren't just two people who enjoyed being together anymore. Even though the two of us had agreed on it, it really wasn't a good idea to go into the relationship thinking like that, and it caused a lot of strain.
This isn't far off from what happened between Porter and I. It is miraculous that we actually ended up married. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Joldo, have you tried making guys chocolate? Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
It would work if I knew any gay guys . . .
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
pfresh, if that dating stat is at all true, I've got about 87 more dates before I go on one where we like each other.
Of course, no reason why the good dates have to be last. Although in my case, recent history and karma seem to suggest it'll be that way.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:I make dark chocolate fudge with cinnamon and raspberries inside. After I serve that up, they latch on.
Can I have some? Please?
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Kinda makes you lose hope in ever making it there.
Or, in my case, kinda makes you plan about 70 short one-minute dates with strangers off the street to get to the mutual liking one.
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
You could do the speed dating thing. Depending on the size of the group you could go on as many as 20-30 dates.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Allegra, your screen name is amusingly appropriate in a post about "speed dating". Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Let's hope it's only speed-dating . . .
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: pfresh, if that dating stat is at all true, I've got about 87 more dates before I go on one where we like each other.
Of course, no reason why the good dates have to be last. Although in my case, recent history and karma seem to suggest it'll be that way.
Just so you guys know, that stat was based on my personality tests, so it's only true for me (or people who are super similar to me).
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
Maybe if you tried speed-dating while on speed you would meet even more people...
Allegra is also my real name. I really wish the allergy medicine had never come out. Now the first thing I hear when I meet people is, "Like the allergy medicine!".
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Just so you guys know, that stat was based on my personality tests, so it's only true for me (or people who are super similar to me).
Oh. I should be in good shape then. I don't think I'm anything like you, at least from what I've read in this thread.
That's not a putdown, either. You wouldn't want to trade lives with me, believe me.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
So Joldo, do I get any of that fudge?
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
We could all post something about how to deal with women and not finish! Here's my contribution:
Don't take any crap. And don't give any, either.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
You can get some fudge, if you can find some way to transport a highly meltable quantity (it's the raspberries that do it) from Atlanta to wherever you live. And this stuff has to be eaten within a couple hours of being made.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Would some sort of icebox help?
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
Joldo, I am in Valdosta, GA. If you feel like a 4 hour drive I would appreciate some fudge. Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
You're in Valdosta? Really? I was down there this past summer at VSU for six weeks for the Governor's Honors Program.
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
I am a VSU student
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Wow. I might have passed right by you, and then quickly scurried away in the fear that you were one of the sketchy characters that haunts Nevins building.
Were you around while the campus was swarming with us nerds?
Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
No, I am a freshman this year. I am actually from Indiana. I just came down here because of the double bass professor. He is really amazing. I am not sure that there is any other person who could convince me to move to the middle of southern Georgia.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Oh, I met him! I think. If I recall correctly, really cool guy. The band program at VSU--especially jazz--is simply incredible.
And trust me, south Georgia is far preferable to Atlanta. The smog layer turns GSU and Tech into little ovens. South Georgia has a lovely climate and a great atmosphere in comparison.
And lots of big city culture, too!
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Question: Would the homecoming dance/casino be a good place to go to alone to potentially meet girls? And if so, what do you think the required attire would be?
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
Pirate hat, fancy shirt, eye-patch and thigh boots with tight black pants.
Not only will you gain +10 confidence (that's what dressing like a pirate does) but you'll also have plenty to talk about during the dance!
Or you could just wear whatever you'd wear out to a fancy night out/club.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Oddly enough, that's very close to how I dressed for Homecoming. It works really good.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I don't have a pirate hat or an eye patch or thigh boots or tight black pants. So I lose there. I also don't have fancy nights out or go to clubs, so yeah. I have no clue what the attire would be. I was considering khaki pants and a collared shirt.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
I have not read the entire thread. But my advice to the beggining question is this:
Dont try to deal with them. You can never deal with them. You can only love and cherish them and when all else fails just hang on for the ride. (And no that is not some sort of vulgar pun. I wrote my post reread it and relized how that could be taken.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, that's really not true, and I think it does women a disservice to treat them like incomprehensible and random forces of nature who are best administered through regular applications of untargeted affection.
You CAN deal with women. Key to this is realizing that they're no more mysterious than anyone else who isn't you.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Joldo! I'm in Woodstock, just over the Cobb county line. And I would love your recipe.
But, um, you really live in Atlanta and don't know any gay guys? *flips through address book*
You really must come to the next Atlanta clumop get-together.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: I don't have a pirate hat or an eye patch or thigh boots or tight black pants.
The obvious solution here is to buy some. Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
But I don't want to be a pirate.... [/Seinfeld reference]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
...I want to sing and dance!
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
So that we men can deal with you better? Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Wait, what does that mean? Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
The title of the thread....
"..I want to sing and dance!"
Umm... maybe it wasn't such great humor... Nevermind...
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Oh, I get it now. I just thought your post was unconnected to katharina's, so I was really confused.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It's from The Pirate Song, by Ray Stevens. Has anyone heard this song? It's wonderful!
I don't like rum...
...anyone? Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I've heard "The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything" by ... a bunch of vegetables...
Does that count?
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
I sing the chorus of The Pirate Song to my kids sometimes, but that's the only part I remember.
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
Yeah, that is pretty funny!
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes, that's it!
I am proud to say that I have seen this performed in person. I've been to Branson, Missouri, and Ray Stevens has a concert hall there. It was great fun.
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
Yo ho ho!
I've never heard of him before. But some of his other songs seemed funny...
Branson sucks in my opinion. I've been there 3 or 4 times in my life (since I have relatives near there), and there's not a whole lot of stuff of interest for me. The only plus is there are a couple good places to eat (including one place that has a table that raises while you eat).
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
quote:You know, that's really not true, and I think it does women a disservice to treat them like incomprehensible and random forces of nature who are best administered through regular applications of untargeted affection.
You CAN deal with women. Key to this is realizing that they're no more mysterious than anyone else who isn't you.
Thank you, Tom. I'd like to see your attitude become more common.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I love that this has turned into a pirate thread. Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Hey, it's a logical transition from women to pirates. We all know that translation. I mean come on.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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I really liked him. But not, you know, THAT way.![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
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