After all the hoopla with the Intergalactic Medicine Show, and OSC's responses here, I wondered if there was something we Hatrackers can do to ease the fiscal burden of the place we spend so much time. When I read this:
quote:Remind me, someone, of why I spend thousands and thousands of dollars maintaining these sites. Oh, yeah ... an active author website is supposed to promote his work. Boy, I'm sure getting my money's worth!
Well, relax. I'm certainly not banning Tom Davidson. It's obvious he has an intensely loyal following. The Hatrack community has, as I intended, a life of its own; but I'm obviously NOT a pillar of it and ...
I think I'll just ban myself and go back to never visiting this site. Then everybody will have the same relationship with me: none. And I'll get a lot more work done.
I felt like a mooch. I hang out here quite a bit, and never once had I wondered how it was all this came to be or what keeping it going entails. This is obviously a fairly large website (for its purpose) and I'm wondering what we can do to defray some of the costs. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see what we could come up with in the way of fundraising.
What I would like to Discuss
Possible ways to raise money (I'd prefer we discard the option of charging any fees - instead I'd like to focus on fundraising and voluntary contributions)
How to allocate said money
What I would not like to Discuss
Whether or not we should be responsible for raising money (a valid question, but it belongs in its own thread)
Any rehashing of the above mentioned hoopla (there's plenty of Monday morning quarterbacking still going on next door)
[disclaimer] This is not a fanboy attempt to keep OSC posting. Either he will or he won't, and I'm not arrogant enough to think I'll affect that one way or another. But when Puppy said in this thread that his dad vacillates on whether or not the time and money spent here is worth it, I thought that on one of those counts we might could help.
This is merely an attempt to brainstorm some ways for a community of people, most of whom are just names to one another, to give something back to something they've taken so much from. [/disclaimer]
So I'll start. I think the best option would be to set up a donation link through paypal. That way if you like it here and you want show some love, you just go and donate some money. I like this plan because: it's ongoing, there's no set dollar amount - no max or min, and because it requires a minimum effort. It probably won't be the most effective method to raise a lot of money, but it might be enough. It would be a trickle as opposed to a bucket.
If you don't like the idea of soliciting contributions here, of course this idea wouldn't cut it. But it's not like we can have an internet-wide bake sale. I realize that some of us aren't what you would call financially secure. In fact, I know some of us are barely solvent. But with a paypal setup you can give a couple of bucks here and there. Even if a hundred of the regulars give 5 dollars a year, that's still enough, hopefully, to put a dent in the costs. I don't know, I just felt like we should at least consider some options. What do you guys think?
[ October 02, 2005, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: El JT de Spang ]
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I think that this is a great idea. I don't really have any suggestions to make it better other than that I like the idea of a Paypal thingermajig. Haven't the slightest idea how any of that works, but I know I would gladly donate what little I could spare. I figger I pay to go see some really crappy movies, I'll definately contribute some to a forum that has provided me with much more entertainment and thought-provoking material than any movie in years. So yeah, in conclusion, I concur.
Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
Aye.
("...Why didn't I concur?" )
Posted by Redskullvw (Member # 1549) on :
Considering the costs involved, which are not trivial, and the fact that most users value this access to OSC however indirect it is, some sort of support should be crafted by this community. I agree that making the site a fee based forum would make little sense on a site with such specific focus, but there should be some facilitation of helping to defray the costs of running the fourms and other non-commercial aspects of Hatrack.
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
If the paypal thing were official and guaranteed to go to OSC, I'd be happy to donate. This place is well worth 10 bucks a year to me, if not much more.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
quote:there's plenty of Monday morning quarterbacking still going on next door
And it's not even Monday! Wait till Monday.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I think the polite thing to do would be to write directly to Mr. Card and ask if he wants donations/contributions.
I don't wish to speak for him, but my sense is that he'd probably rather keep his choices simple regarding this site. Should he decide to close Hatrack (or this part of it), he could do so now knowing that only he is responsible for it. If he took money from people, he might feel obligated to maintain it even if he finds it deplorable, not in his best interests, or even something taht misrepresents him or his work.
Frankly, I think you're jumping the gun here and should probably approach him directly to see if this idea is even something he'd consider.
If he says "yes" then I'm sure the support will be there.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
You posted
quote:What I would like to Discuss
Possible ways to raise money (I'd prefer we discard the option of charging any fees - instead I'd like to focus on fundraising and voluntary contributions)
How to allocate said money
What I would not like to Discuss
Whether or not we should be responsible for raising money (a valid question, but it belongs in its own thread)
Any rehashing of the above mentioned hoopla (there's plenty of Monday morning quarterbacking still going on next door)
So I'm not sure if I should be putting this here. But I'm wondering, wouldn't this forum lose something? It feels like it ceases to be the Card's living room, once people start paying, and that's part of what I liked about this place.
Did that come out right?
I think I'm in the wrong place.
--j_k
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:If he took money from people, he might feel obligated to maintain it even if he finds it deplorable, not in his best interests, or even something that misrepresents him or his work
This is what I want to avoid, some sense of entitlement from us, the members. Hatrack is, and should remain, under the control of the Cards until they say otherwise. I'm just asking the question how? I'm leaving why out of it. I'm definitely not volunteering to spearhead a massive "Save Hatrack" pledge drive. I just thought, to continue with the Hatrack-as-OSC's-living-room analogy that is so prevalent, that if he's gonna invite us over for dinner every night, the neighborly thing to do would be to offer to make it a pot luck.
So Bob, I didn't go straight to OSC with this because I just wanted to test the waters; see if anyone else felt like they needed to show some gratitude to him for putting this roof over our head. That last sentence died of metaphor overdose.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
It's a good idea, and I think there'd be plenty of people who would support this site if there was a way to do that which met with OSC's approval.
I understand your point, and if nothing else, I think the responses in this thread will tend to communicate people's gratitude for the site. If nothing else, I hope OSC sees it and understands how much we love the site, even if there isn't always a clear expression of that fact.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
If this is OSC's living room, we're hardly polite houseguests. In fact, I think I may have spilled red wine on the couch.
I'd certainly go for PayPal donations. I can spare enough.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I was just thinking about this the other day. My thoughts were not a response to that thread OSC posted on. I did not follow that saga.
I was thinking about how much I respect OSC as an author and a person. I have received so much help here. I have had encouragement, worked through problems, had good laughs, vented, been introduced to new movies, books, and tv shows, and, most importantly, my perspective on the world and my life has broadened.
Unfortunately my grammar still sucks and I love the run on sentences, commas, and conjunctions.
I want to support this site in a meaningful way. I have not browsed the other parts of this site much. Is there a place we can purchase books, scripts, et cetera? I want to promote the arts. This website is too good to be a financial drain on anyone.
If we all bought one item from this site, we would benefit from buying something we probably will eventually buy anyway, and this site might serve a more fiscal purpose.
I just found what I want! I am now going to browse the books section. I wish he had more specialty items. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Folks, I think there's been a "we should help pay for the site" thread every six months or so for the last two years.
On none of them has there ever been any indication that OSC is interested in accepting donations. I understand wanting to make a tangilble show of appreciation, but you might have to find another way of expressing support.
Edit: like the one lem just found.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I sometimes drive alot, and there is seldom anything good on the radio. I like audio books. The last one I got was by Jane Goodall.
I don't have a tape deck in my car tho. Not many people do these days...do they?
Can we pass the word to OSC to convert his audio books to Cds? When I go to Japan, Korea, or different states, it would also be nice to have a book I can listen to.
EDIT: I am confused. On one page it says books on cassett or CD, on the next, it has either cassett or CD next to the book title.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
Sorry, I am kinda liking thinking about this. I have bought many things because of this forum. My last purchase was the Firefly DVD set.
I wonder if there is a current way (or a way that can be pioneered) where a relationship can be created with this forum and a site like Barnes and Noble.
Lets say someone suggests reading "A Wizard of Earthsea." That poster could then put a graemlin or link that connects to on online site. Hatrack would get a portion or cut of the purchase--much like clicking on the ads at the bottom.
Instead of random ads, we would be the ones recommending the items. I certainly would have preferred to buy firefly from this site instead of Best Buy. If the cost was equivalent, that would be a good way for our idea sharing to support our hatrack addiction.
Posted by Coccinelle (Member # 5832) on :
I think that if you go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon through the links on the homepage, Hatrack receives a percentage from your purchases.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
If that's actually the case, then Hatrack's percentage just from my B&N and amazon spending should be enough to keep us up and running well into 2018.
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I still think it's a good idea for the ones who want to contribute to be able to. OSC did say it takes thousands of dollars to run the show and I feel the need to help. I don't have much extra but I can certainly afford even $30 a year. I'm all for it!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
*head spinning*
this whole thing is crazy... *hugs for OSC and TomD* but in any event I think support for our community, if needed, is a great idea.
Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
Subscriptions for Intergalactic Medicine Show are intended to help support Hatrack. So that's probably the best way to support the site. Would we accept donations? No. We use the store proceeds, and the B&N etc. links -- any profit (though note huge) from those goes into supporting Hatrack. So, if you want to continue helping it stay alive, subscribe to the magazine when it goes up this month and tell your friends. It's really going to be very inexpensive for the value of the content. And, thanks for the thought El JT.
K. Card
Posted by Treason (Member # 7587) on :
I was planning on doing that, so that works for me! Good to know. Thanks! Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Can I suggest you add the links for B&N and Amazon to the top of the page here? I keep forgetting about them, and I only go to the front page occasionally.
I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's a great idea. I just got the soundtrack to Bandits this morning, before I read this thread, and I didn't go through the links on Hatrack because I forgot about them since I only see the front page occasionally.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
quote:Intergalactic Medicine Show
?
Posted by Diosmel Duda (Member # 2180) on :
I'll definitely be signing up!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Diosmel, who are you?
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Diosmel is Brinestone.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I was actually planning to subscribe to IMS for completely selfish reasons. Now I get to feel all supportive of Hatrack by doing so. Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: Can I suggest you add the links for B&N and Amazon to the top of the page here? I keep forgetting about them, and I only go to the front page occasionally.
Great idea. They could put them at the bottom on the left and right side of the "contact" and " copyright" information. I know I would be more likely to use the links if they were on this page somewhere.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
You're kidding! Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
No, he's not kidding. Are you?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Most likely. Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
Hey, they put up the links at the top of the page! I am now going to create an account and buy something. There is a book I was meaning to get, and it is as cheap to order from Amazon.
I left my Debit card at home. I will sign up tonight and do some shopping!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Thanks, kacard or whoever did this. It will make a difference, I promise you. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
That is a wonderful idea. In fact, I clicked on the Amazon link and pre-ordered A Feast for Crows. Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
will using the links for things that are already in your amazon shopping cart but you haven't bought yet count?
Or do you have to empty it and re add them? Or do you have to sign out and sign back in then re add them? Or do you need to start a whole new account and add them to the new one?
Anyone know?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, this is great. Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I never realized those links were on the homepage until this thread. Thanks for adding them to the forum page! I will certainly use them from now on.
mimsies, I don't know for sure, but I think all you need to do is use the links to access the site in order for Hatrack to get credit. If you're using the same computer that the site's cookies are on, your shopping cart should just follow along automatically; I don't think it would affect the Hatrack income.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I just orderd $54 worth of stuff from Amazon through this link.
Including the Firefly DVDs, which I'm buying without ever having seen it before, so you all better be right about it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
We're right.
To be fair, I didn't love it until the second disk. Then I loved the first shows, but Our Mrs. Reynolds is what made me love the characters.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
If it works the way the bookstore link on our church website does, you have to use the link at the time you buy the books. If you use the link, put something in your shopping cart, and then return later not through Hatrack, Hatrack doesn't get the credit.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Whoops! dkw said what I meant to say before. Rereading it, I wasn't at all clear. Do what dkw says, ignore my pseudo-advice. Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I'll go through here to get to Amazon from now on. I spend waaaay to much with them.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Excellent suggestion, Dag, and beautiful execution, webmaster.
From now on, I only buy at Amazon through these links.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
...and a t-shirt
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
This is just a small suggestion for the Good Fairy who added the bookstore links. As of right now, clicking a link opens the store of your choice in the current browser window. Might it be possible to make it so that clicking on it opens up amazon or whatever in a new browser window? I'm thinking much the same way that links within posts work.
I know it's not an actual problem the way it is now since one can always just right-click to get the suggested effect on one's own, but I thought it might be a nice augmentation of the current linky goodness.
P.S. Feel free to shoot this idea down if no one else agrees or cares.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
How does that work? After I click the link, anything I buy is somehow electronically tagged and recorded as having come from Hatrack, no matter what I search for and buy, so long as I do so in the same window that was opened when I clicked the link?
I wish I had known this two weeks ago when I bought my books for school. Heck, I bet if every college student here bought their school books from Amazon or whoever through these links that'd be a huge boost in support.
I just don't get how that works electronically, how is kept track of?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It uses what's called a browser session.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: Might it be possible to make it so that clicking on it opens up amazon or whatever in a new browser window?
I think that is a great idea. I know I am starting a thread on suggested books to read to children. Since I will probably buy at least one of the books, it would be user-friendly if Amazon (et cetera) opened in a new window so that I could still use the hatrack thread as a reference.
Just my $0.02.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
quote:it would be user-friendly if Amazon (et cetera) opened in a new window so that I could still use the hatrack thread as a reference.
Hold down the shift key when you click on the link.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:Hold down the shift key when you click on the link.
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![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
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Thanks for adding them to the forum page! I will certainly use them from now on.