Anyone know how the name "Grzywacz" would be pronounced? It's the last name of one of my students, and I have absolutely no idea. Any Polish-looking name that doesn't end in 'ski' tends to baffle me. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Would you like to buy a vowel?
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I would guess "gerzewatsh", but I am probably wrong.
Is there a database for these kind of things?
Posted by Fusiachi (Member # 7376) on :
This is a possibility. The Polish wikipedia says it's some sort of ring-necked bird.
Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
I'd suggest asking your student...
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:I'd suggest asking your student...
Why would a teacher risk looking stupid? Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Originally posted by aiua: I'd suggest asking your student...
Of course I'll ask her once I meet her. But I honestly have no clue how to even try saying that one other than a "Gr" sound at the beginning. I'm more concerned about embarrasing her than me.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Fusiachi - thanks for the link. That gives me a general idea of how to make an attempt. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Speaking from experience, she's used to it. I had to explain the pronunciation of my last name to every single person I'd ever met in my entire life - up until the moment I changed it, that is.
Ask her, and make notes and a concerted effort to remember. She'll appreciate it. Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Quid, that's what I'm hoping, but a large part of my concern is from my personal experience - my name is mispronounced pretty regularly, and when I used to be painfully shy, I hated the unwanted attention it got me. I've gotten used to it now, of course, but I still remember how it felt.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yeah, I know. But if you treat her with respect, rather than as an object of scorn or distaste - which many students with unpronouncable names get - then you'll be okay. Again, speaking from experience. Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Do it "gr-zee-vatz", though it might be "gr-žee-vatz". Check for diacritics that people might've left off.
At least those are the ways you'd say it in Czech (then again, the pronunciation's "check" for the spelling "Czech" which is Polish).
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
no idea
oh, okay
grzivatch
(except you will read the "rz" cluster as the french "j")
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Oh... Gřivatch...
At least in czech "ř" and the sound of the "z" in "azure" are compltely different. If I'm correct, the name for a "ř" is a voiced postveloar fricative-trill - so it's not even on the IPA table.
I thought "cz" was "tz" lust like "c". Oh, well, maybe that was Hungarian...
So "Kasprowicz" is "kas-pro-vitch"?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
yes.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Thanks, I always thought those commentators couldn't pronounce his name... They still pronounce the "w" as if it were English...
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I had a teacher named "Grzlewski," and he pronounced it "Jeh-LEH-ski." Not sure how much help that is.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
quote: But if you treat her with respect, rather than as an object of scorn or distaste - which many students with unpronouncable names get - then you'll be okay. Again, speaking from experience.
yeah!
I grew up in the South, and my maiden name (Errickson) is not common there. I used to hate it when the teacher would furrow her brow and say something like "Eric-a-sin?"
"It's--cough--Errickson."
"Whatever."
The next day, and for days after sometimes:
"Eric-a-sin?"
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote: I grew up in the South, and my maiden name (Errickson) is not common there. I used to hate it when the teacher would furrow her brow and say something like "Eric-a-sin?"
Were your teachers illiterate? Even if they hadn't seen the name before, it IS pronounced just like it looks.
As Mrs. Haines, my second grade teacher, used to advise: "Sound it out".
And I would call the student by her first name. Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I'd go with that until you're told otherwise by the student.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
I didn't think it was too difficult either, but there was much consternation on several occasions due to the congregation of consonants in the center, there. When I appeared for jury duty in 1997, the same scenario played out with the bailiff and judge, who didn't even try. Yikes!
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:She says it's pronounced Griz-wack
the problem with American Poles is they butcher the Polish pronunciation to make it pronoucable for other Americans.
That is SO TOTALLY wrong.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Darn Kama! I was going to say all that (that actual pronunciation, and the bad English trans-pronunciations of Polish names).
A personal example of the latter issue:
Chmielewski -- Americanized: Shem-i-loo-skee (second syllable is "i" as in "it")
More correctly: hmye-lev-skee (The "Ch" is similar to the Hebrew hard "h", though I'm told it isn't same)
Either way, its a great filter for telemarketers! --
Kama, is it true that almost all Polish words are stressed on the second to last syllable?
-Bok
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
as a general rule, yes. There are exceptions, such as some past forms of verbs, numbers from 400-900, and words ending in -yka and -ika (matematyka, fizyka etc) where the accent is on the third syllable from the end.
(I was going to provide your name as an example of the butchered prununciation but I didn't remember how you pronounced it )
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote: The "Ch" is similar to the Hebrew hard "h", though I'm told it isn't same
Yes, it is similar, and it's even translitrated so. You're also right in saying it's not the same: it's a non-glottal version of the Hebrew ח׳ or like a hardened Greek "χ".
But SHEMILOOSKEE? How ignorant can one be? People called me Awerd before, alright, but when they [school] game us "e-mail accounts" in - excuse my language, H*tmail - back in 4th grade, the idiots in the school didn't even bother looking up "Howard", they went for eord@hotmail.co.il (the account is dead, by the way. Don't bother sending me crap there).
People. People. People.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:eord@hotmail.co.il
It would be sad, if it weren't so funny! Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Perhaps the Poles should just agree to start spelling their names correctly?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
I already decided I'm changing mine to Tannini, anyway.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Er, first name or last, Kamila?
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Call her by her first name?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
You know what this thread needs?
More drooling over Frisco. Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Go away.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
No.
But if you don't want to hear about Frisco, I can objectify you.
*leers at Raia*
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Your hair isn't as nice as Rivka's.
But I like all that tongue you're giving me.
*leers some more*
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Hahaha.
Oh my.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Your hair isn't as nice as Rivka's.
Beg to differ. Have you seen Raia's hair? It's gorgeous!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes, but she hasn't given me any!
*strokes Rivka's hair*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Smart girl. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ooh, I'm just gettin' tongue from all the hawt ladies!
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Haha... if you really want some, I can mail you some.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
But not much , I actually do wear mine...
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Actually, I'd like of like to know how to pronounce: "Tupac"
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
erm. that a name, Glenn? or a verb, as in tupac with an accent mark over the c?
(last, rivka. Obviously)
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Jon, thanks for the self-righteous indignation.
In all likelihood, Americans were butchering my family's name to the point that it was easier to go with the flow, particularly when going into business. Heck, one side of my family changed the name to "Chemis" for exactly this reason. In day-to-day reality, concessions are made.
-Bok
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:the problem with American Poles is they butcher the Polish pronunciation to make it pronoucable for other Americans.
quote:In all likelihood, Americans were butchering my family's name to the point that it was easier to go with the flow, particularly when going into business. Heck, one side of my family changed the name to "Chemis" for exactly this reason. In day-to-day reality, concessions are made.
*nod*
I've come to delibrately mispronounce my name when speaking to unhyphenated-Americans.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
I do that sometimes too. If I'm not feeling up to explaining.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I used to love correcting my teachers on how to pronounce my last name.
FG
Posted by IvyGirl (Member # 6252) on :
And now I love correcting them. It's hereditary. Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Well, see, my first name is also complicated... so that's the one I prefer to focus on. If I started getting picky about my last name, too, they'll get really frustrated and give me bad grades.
Posted by IvyGirl (Member # 6252) on :
They give you bad grades because they're frustrated with your name? That's a little harsh.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Haha, not really.
But they do get frustrated, because they can't pronounce any of my name.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Well, I met the girl yesterday, and she did say her name - but I still don't know how to pronounce it because she said it so fast! I didn't want to make her repeat it a million times (she'd already said it 2-3 times), and she said to just call her "Bo" - her first name is also difficult, but it was something I could mostly figure out. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Haha, I know the feeling. It's rare that a French can pronounce my first name right (they ALWAYS stress the second syllable instead of the first, even after explaining them several times) so I just don't bother anymore. But I *will* give my name the right way when it comes to it.
As for the family name, that's a whole other can of worms...
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Haha. Exactly.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
"erm. that a name, Glenn? or a verb, as in tupac with an accent mark over the c?"
A name. Tupac Shakur is a (dead) Rap artist. I've never heard his name spoken, only seen it in print. I made the mistake of saying it to a student that was talking about rap music and the class laughed, but refused to tell me how it was correctly pronounced.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
How did you pronounce it? I've always heard TOO-pahk shah-KOOR.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
That's how I've heard it, too.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I pronounced it: Two pack.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Hey, I warned you I'd be butchering everyone's names that day! LOL
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Raia, what's so hard with your name?
Shaa-neeVaar-man. (No energy for IPA.)
Scopatz is a harder name to say.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I pronounced it: Two pack.
That's not too far off. They must have just wanted to make you feel dumb. Just think "TOO-pock", and you'll be okay. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
How is Scopatz a hard name to say?
Alright, let's have a little guessing game here.
Whoever can guess how my old last name is pronounced wins a prize. Spelling:
T O E W S
You may begin. . . Now!
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I'd guess "toes" because there's a movie theatre chain named "Loews" that pronounced to rhyme with toes. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote: Scopatz is a harder name to say.
Am I wrong in figuring that it is SCOE-patts?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Nell - nope.
Next!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Like "twos" (i.e., more than one two)?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Nope!
Next!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Am I allowed to guess again?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Lemme try!
Is it "Tovess"?
Second guess:
Is it "Rumplestiltskin"?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Rivka, you can have as many guesses as you want.
Tante - nope, and nope. Your second guess is close, however. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Does it rhyme with "cows"?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Like "toss"; tahz; tah-OOZE; um . . . *ponders*
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Jon Boy - nope! Rivka - nope!
Next!
Oh, and let me know when y'all want hints.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Hints!
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
It's pronounced "quidscribis."
Duh!
--Enigmatic
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
How many syllables is it?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
One syllable.
Enigmatic - Hah!
Hints - It's a Mennonite name, and they speak Plaut Deutsch.
Let me know when you need another hint. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
tavss
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Hmm. You'll also have to be clear what sounds sounds you're trying to create. For example, it's not clear whether you intend that to be a short a or a long a, rivka.
But nope!
Next!
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Oh, do you want me to tell you when you're getting closer? Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I give up. I have to play this game for real all week anyway.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yeah, I'm not surprised. To be fair, the guesses already given are the standard ones I always heard as a kid. And no, no one ever got it unless they knew someone with the name who previously taught them how to pronounce it.
rivka, you should have seen that hint, though. Is that a long a or a short a sound?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*stubbornly* Don't know. Don't care. And you can't make me. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Taves? (long a)
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
If you mean the s at the end in an s sound, no. If you make that into a z sound, then yes, give the boy a hand.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Hooray! What do I win?
And yes, that's what I meant.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Cool.
Um, you win my undying respect for your language skills?
On another note. Imagine being stuck with that name. Imagine, if you will, that your father's name is Harry. Imagine that everyone else found out. And no, you don't know how or who, and you can't kill them.
Welcome to my own private hell. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Hooray for undying respect!
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Raia, what's so hard with your name?
Shaa-neeVaar-man. (No energy for IPA.)
Scopatz is a harder name to say.
It's a lot harder when you don't happen to be Israeli.
Especially if you're just reading it, and it's not spelled out phonetically.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Taves? Like staves, but without the initial s?
I'm so sorry. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yup, that's it.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raia:
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Raia, what's so hard with your name?
Shaa-neeVaar-man. (No energy for IPA.)
Scopatz is a harder name to say.
It's a lot harder when you don't happen to be Israeli.
Especially if you're just reading it, and it's not spelled out phonetically.
Your first name I am willing to compromise on stressing and short-vs-long "a" sound. But there's no excuse for your surname, what's the "h" doing there if not clarifying?
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Raia, what's so hard with your name?
Shaa-neeVaar-man. (No energy for IPA.)
How's that spelled?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Shani Wahrman.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Of course, when everyone in my class disputes whether "Eord" is pronounced "Award" (aah-waard) or "Ewer", it's off-pissing. It was far easier in English lessons.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Seapking of language - I finally write a ligature for "John Fitzgerald Kennedy"!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
En anglais, s'il te plait.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Americans never pronounce my last name correctly. It's Liel. I get "Leel" and "Lile" all the time. It's ironic, because I changed my last name from Aaronson when I moved to Israel. I got tired of the constant misspellings. Liel is a really easy name in Hebrew. But back here in the US, it's just irksome.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
So is it "lee-ell"?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I thought she said it was "irk-some." Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Oh, JB, you crack me up!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Thanks, TS. Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: I thought she said it was "irk-some."
Veddy cute. <grin>
It's lee-EHL. I thought about writing it as Li-El, but that sounds Kryptonian. I thought about putting an accent mark over the "e", but that seemed pretentious, and I bet most people would miss it anyway. Li'el might possibly work, but what the hell, you know?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I got it right! What do I win?
And people might pronounce it more easily if you spelled it "Lielle".
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: I got it right! What do I win?
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: And people might pronounce it more easily if you spelled it "Lielle".
Hmm... that never even occurred to me. But... nah, too femmy. <grin>
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
<singing and prancing about giddily>
I enjoy being a girl!
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
I had no idea you were Israeli, starLisa!! I have a friend named Liel. Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: <singing and prancing about giddily>
I enjoy being a girl!
Hey, so do I. Just... not the femmy type. <grin>
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raia: I had no idea you were Israeli, starLisa!! I have a friend named Liel.
What's funny is that when I decided on Liel, I'd never heard of the name. Not as a first name, and not as a last name. I thought I made it up. But Hebrew is like that.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Hehe, indeed. You get some pretty wild names. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I gotta tell you, the way you indicate you pronoune it is the way I would have guessed. Maybe it helps that I've had exposure to a whole lotta names that are not standard fare? Or maybe it's that whole Canadian thing we've got going? I dunno. It just doesn't seem that difficult.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
So* I wanna know how Grcywycz (or however it was spelled) is pronounced. oh, NELL!!!!
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goody Scrivener: So* I wanna know how Grcywycz (or however it was spelled) is pronounced. oh, NELL!!!!
Lol, Goody.
I still don't know! She said it too fast (three times) for me to catch it. But I should see her in class on Friday, and if I can pin her down without making a fuss, I'll ask her to say it again. Slowly.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Put a diaresis over the "e", it should sort things out.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
What E?
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
What's a diaresis? Sounds painful. Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: I gotta tell you, the way you indicate you pronoune it is the way I would have guessed. Maybe it helps that I've had exposure to a whole lotta names that are not standard fare? Or maybe it's that whole Canadian thing we've got going? I dunno. It just doesn't seem that difficult.
Could be the lot-of-names thing. I went to the doctor a couple of weeks ago after the elevator accident, and the nurse was Hungarian, or something like that. She got it right the first time.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Howard: Put a diaresis over the "e", it should sort things out.
<laugh> Yeah, because so many people understand what a diaresis is for.
Nell, it looks like an umlaut. Two horizontal dots over a letter. Like in Noel. The diaresis over the "e" in that word tells you that the vowel is to be prounced separately. It's a little like the Hebrew aleph or the Arabic alif.
Jonathan, I didn't mention that option, because I didn't think most people would know what it was. Also, it wouldn't help me on the Internet, because I can't type an "e" with a diaresis.
But good suggestion. <grin>
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Why ëvër not?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Use the US International keyboard. It might have it.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Diuresis: noun. Increased discharge of urine. To relieve the patient's pedal edema, the doctor prescribed hydochlorothiazide, for the purpose of diuresis. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Related to the more commonly used word diuretic. As in, caffeine.
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But I honestly have no clue how to even try saying that one other than a "Gr" sound at the beginning. I'm more concerned about embarrasing her than me.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Yeah, I'm not surprised. To be fair, the guesses already given are the standard ones I always heard as a kid. And no, no one ever got it unless they knew someone with the name who previously taught them how to pronounce it.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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But I should see her in class on Friday, and if I can pin her down without making a fuss, I'll ask her to say it again. Slowly.
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