So, with all of the talk of rising gas prices, peak oil and hybrid gas/electric technologies, why haven't they created an ethanol/electric car?
Ethanol, being renewable and cheap, could be used to power a generator in a car that would, in turn, provide electricity to turn the wheels. Wouldn't that be a simpler, cheaper, cleaner and more effective way of addressing our personal vehicle fuel problems in the US?
Why isn't this being considered? Or is it?
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
There are currently a few vehicles that run on E-85, which is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. It's cheap, but it's hard to find.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Seems like one of the big three automakers could make a killing in the market by jumping out in front on the ethanol deal. And I think an ethanol hybrid would be much smarter.
Heck, hybrids are outpacing production now. It's not that Americans aren't looking for different options, it's that we aren't being given many options.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I've heard about "biodiesel" -- cars that run on old diner grease. Anybody have any knowledge or experience with that? Could you have a hybrid electric/old diner grease car?
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
There are serious problems with ethanol as a fuel. One is that ethanol production as it is currently done using corn crops is not energy-effective. You need to put slightly more energy into the materials and processing than you get out of it. (Compare this to biodiesel from soybeans, where you get something like 2 or 3 times as much energy out as you put in, and there are strains of algae that do significantly better.) Even if this can be overcome, ethanol is a dangerous substance, much more volatile and explosive than gasoline. (Again, compare to biodiesel, which has a higher flash point than even petroleum diesel.)
These problems might be solved eventually, but until then ethanol can really only be used on a large scale as an additive.
Edit: Tante, yes, there have been experimental diesel hybrid models that get on the order of 70 mpg. Nothing in mass production yet that I know of.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I have a question about the Hydrogen cars. Now, we've all heard of them only producing water, but a science teacher told me that they haven't tested them much yet- and so could have unknown effects on the water cycle.
Do any of you know about this?
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
And here's a link to the UNH biodiesel page. See footnotes 6 and 7 on that page for diesel-electric hybrids.
Hydrogen has problems as well. First, there's the question of where you get it. As I recall, most hydrogen is currently produced in a process that uses methane and steam, but you could always get it from water using electrolysis. So either you're tied to another petrochemical (methane), or you need another energy source to run the electrolysis. Most proposals involve increasing nuclear energy production to provide this energy.
There's also the issue of hydrogen leaks damaging the ozone layer. I don't have a link for this one (probably isn't too hard to find, though), but from what I remember hydrogen is an even more effective catylist than CFCs for breaking down ozone.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
We have a fellow at work who had a bio-diesel converted Volkswagen Rabbit. At first, he was a huge proponent of it, but that wore away fairly quickly. It seemed that there were always problems with the car overheating.
I'm not sure if that is a problem with the fuel or with the way his had been rigged up, though.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
He might have been using straight veggie oil (SVO, as the greasers call it), which requires a conversion to the fuel line. Biodiesel alone requires no engine conversion on modern (post 1993ish?) diesel cars, though it is corrosive and will dislodge some of the stuff that builds up from years of using petrodiesel. So you might need to change your fuel filter once or twice. (There is a conversion for older cars that replaces the rubber parts with something that won't dissolve.) Also, VW will void your warrantee if you put anything with more than 20% biodiesel in your tank.
Incidentally, one of my housemates is a percussionist for Aphrodesia, who recently purchased an old Greyhound coach for touring and are running it on veggie oil.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
One of the cooks I worked with converted his VW for biodiesal, and makes a living on te side converting old grease into diesal...he still drives it today, and is making a killing, because he uses the same stuff to heat his house.
Kitchens PAY him to take that grease away too. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
He doesn't do the greasal thing though, he actuallymixes things into teh oil making it almost the same thing as regual DF...he gets soap as a by-product, and throws it away because it is very harsh and soap is so cheap to buy. Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
Awesome.
I always wondered what people did with all the glycerin left over. A shame there isn't a better use for it than throwing it out.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)