Let me preface this by saying that I grew up in a house in the suburbs that had a three foot high azalea hedge all around the front of the house and the stairs from the front door to the driveway.
This azalea is very dense and very old, having been planted 40 years ago when the house was built, and having been carefully tended and pruned by my father for the last 35 years or so.
They have now hired a contractor to replace the front stone steps. While visiting today, I saw that he had cut back one side of the hedge (the side facing the house) about six inches, down to bare branches that were finger-width, so as to more easily lay the footing for the stairs.
I was livid. Apparently, my parents were too, since the contractor had never asked their permission before doing it! When my father finally stopped his workers from further damaging the hedge, it was explained that former clients had always just said to cut the hedge back as far as they needed.
My father was angry, and said he would have pulled the hedge back with a tarp and staked it into the lawn, so they could have had room, and my mother cried.
YET, as angry as they are, they aren't doing anything about it.
Now, my sister and I are far more confrontational than our parents, and I (being the one who lives nearer) am going to argue with the contractor tomorrow morning (er... later today, at this point).
There are other problems with his work that don't meet our expectations and original intentions, and I am going to argue that he rip out the foundations that have been laid already and rebuild the way we wanted it in the first place.
But, what about the azalea bush? There's nothing he can do to fix that, and it is technically property damage. I feel we should be compensated for it, but by how much? Anyone have any ideas?
I can't find anything online about legal rulings on property damage of this kind, but I know this is something we could probably sue for, if we were so inclined. I'm leaving in about six hours to drive up there and argue our case, so any help tonight would be appreciated.
I'll post later tomorrow to let you know how things are progressing. This is far more my sister's domain than my own, and she would likely make much better progress. However, I'm on the scene, and my cold anger and logical disposition will have to replace her enraged, dissatisfied consumer role for now.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Oh man, Cow, I KNOW how that hurts. My parents almost lost their entire row of lilacs to the stupid morning glories that an idiot in the apartment building next door decided to plant "because they looked pretty". (bleeped) things took up a stranglehold on our beloved lilacs, it took 3 years to get them to bloom again after we and the landlord tore our everything we could find. And we've still spent much of the last 10 years ripping out tendrils that keep snaking up and out from the depths.
I don't know what to recommend with regard to your "conversation" with the contractor, though. I would, however, fully anticipate that he's going to tell you that your parents signed a waiver against property damage as part of the contract for services or maybe as a separate document executed at the same time. I would consider the attack on the azaleas to be wilful and wanton destruction, rather than accidental damage, but he's probably going to try and claim that they aren't responsible because of that waiver.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
He can claim all he wants, but as a matter of fact he has already admitted that the damage was intentional.
If something fell on them and damaged them, that would be accidental...but delibreately cutting them can't by definition be accidental.
Good luck!
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
That really sucks.
I'm ignorant in the ways of hedges, though... Won't they grow back?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yeah, they'll grow back and speaking from experience from the contractor side of things you'll probably get nothing unless you sue, and more than likely the legal fees are going to be more than what you'd be compensated for, because we're talking about essentially minor damage that will grow back and be like it never happened.
If you want to quibble over the work that's been done that's one thing, but trying to get money for the hedge is, in my opinion, a losing proposition.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
First things first, what kind of contract did your parents sign with the contractor, if any?
This will determine what your recourse is about both the hedges and the quality of work. If nothing is in writing, depending on your state laws, you may be out of luck.
I deal with contractors on a daily basis (although on a much larger scale), and our contracts (specifically, the part were they agree to install everything in accordance with our drawings and specifications) are the only thing we have to leverage them into building what we intended them to build.
I know there were no drawings or specs in this case, but there should still be some agreement between the contractor and your parents insuring that both are on the same page, construction-wise.
You may have arbitration as a potential recourse, and you may be able to use his admission that the hedges were intentionally damaged without the owner's permission to make him give some money back. Although don't expect him to write you a check, cause it doesn't happen. They'll give you additional work in the amount of what they owe you, most likely.
There are a lot of honest and skilled contractors, but it's been my experience that there are more who are looking for that extra profit margin. Sad, but true.
For the future, when dealing with contractors, you must put everything in writing.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
El JT is right, if you have nothing in writing, you basically have no recourse at all. Yes you could pursue under the idea of a verbal contract but without a written contract, the contractor can say he told you he'd have to trim the hedge and no one objected at the time and how can you refute that?
If you do have a contract, it may well have a clause in it about removing things that are in the way or not holding the company responsible for damage to lawns and landscaping. We had that clause, because we often had to dig up yards to get to pipes, and while many people did complain about damage done to their lawn, there was nothing they could do - I mean, how are we supposed to access pipe underground without digging up part of your lawn? And we were covered by the clause in our contract. Also, if we had to move heavy equipment or trucks onto their lawn in order to do the job (often it was concrete trucks) then we were not responsible for damage they might do to lawns. So, if there's a written contract you need to look for that type of clause.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Will the bush grow back? In my experience, that kind of severe pruning is usually permanent.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Somewhat depends on the time of year you prune it, Tom. Yeah - this isn't the best time of year for severe pruning -- later in the fall after first frost wouldn't have been as damaging because the shrub would be going dormant.
But it isn't as damaging as doing it in spring when sap is rising, either.
So with plenty of water to help it recover, I think there is a chance it will grow back -- if no disease or insect sets in while it's vulnerable
Farmgirl
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Well, here's the rest of the story, including bits I left out.
The bushes were part of the problem, but there were other more pressing concerns. The staircase had been laid in from bottom to top, so that it matched the edge of the driveway... however, when they got to the top, that didn't match at a 90 degree with the steps coming down from the door. (It's sort of an L shape).
So, it was cockeyed.
I drove up this morning and my mother called in the contractor. I had drawn to scale what his workers had laid in, and I drew to scale what we actually wanted.
The original contract (really more a purchase order than anything else) had called for 4 steps. However, those four steps had been built originally 40 years ago, and their rise was steeper than current construction code allowed. So, 5 steps needed to be put in... which made it so we would need a new railing, too.
In any event, the guy shows up, and I set in with my arguments. In the final analysis, he has agreed to tear up the stairs that had been put into place, and put down stairs according to my drawing, admitting that his worker had made a mistake in laying the bricks. (And, as an aside, mentioned that this worker had been caught drinking on the job later that day on another job, and had been fired.)
So, my parents are getting the stairs that they want, with no need for a new and different railing. When I mentioned the terrible damage to the bush, and asked if he could knock some money off the price, he started to throw up resistance. I was worried that his previous joviality and acceptance of the new plan at no extra cost would be jeopardized if I pushed it too far, so I backed off.
(It didn't help that over my shoulder my father said, "I'm not too concerned about the plant." Grah.)
My sister is mollified by this turn of events, though she said she would have pushed a lot harder on the bush and threatened him with the Better Business Bureau.
It turns out, my father finally remembered (grah, yet again) that one of the workers *did* ask him if he could cut bushes... the forsythia on the side of the driveway. My father even gave him a pair of lobbers to cut them back, which we had planned on doing anyway.
Those things grow like weeds.
However, the worker's english was not good, and it is possible that he thought he was asking if he could cut back all bushes in general.
My sister was indignant and would not take that as an excuse, but it's enough to satisfy me. I'm not going to pursue it any further. Other than to shake my head and wonder how the people who birthed me could have been so... well... dumb.
I need to come back up tomorrow and make sure things are going to plan, because it seems like my parents' backbones have turned to jelly and their voices have fallen out of their throats.
All in all, though, they're both a lot happier now that I made some progress.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Here are pictures of the damage, and of the crookedness of the step.
So you are aware, the azalea once came all the way to the edge of where the step is now, and had pink, white and red flowers from top to bottom in a dense curtain with very few leaves showing.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
You definitely should have gotten them to redo the steps, that was a very poor job. I'm glad that's been settled.
I wouldn't worry about the bushes. An azalea that well established is going to be find, I would think. Heck, I've TRIED to kill azaleas and been unable to, the suckers are hardy.
The fact that your dad gave permission for trimming bushes and even loaned them the hedge trimmers - yeah, I'd say you weren't going to get very far in arguing for money off.
You're going to get the steps done right at no additional cost, sounds like it went pretty well to me.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
In hindsight, my parents should have taken a whole slew of steps that ultimately could have avoided this.
- First, have a detailed plan drawn with *Exactly* what they wanted. Any deviation of that plan would require a new plan to be drawn and signed off on before work could begin.
- Second, have a contract more substantial than simply a list of items written in broken english. (It was hard to read, I'm telling you). It should have included days of start and finish, clauses as to what would and would not be touched, and something to the effect of all deviations from plan had to be authorized in writing first.
- Third, they should have gotten other estimates with that plan, since some contractor should have caught the impossibility of four steps for a 40 inch drop with modern codes.
- Last, they should have been far more explicitly clear in their directions to workers, who had limited english and can easily misunderstand.
As a funny aside, the guy who installed the stairs in the first place 40 years ago was named Mario.... this guy's name was Luigi. I still can't get over that. I keep expecting to find koopa paratroopas flying among the ruins of the azalea. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Having seen the pictures, I can understand why y'all were upset . . . but I don't understand how you thought they could put in the stairs with trimming back the bushes? They need some room to maneuver, neh?
In any case, the bushes will probably grow back. When we had a similar gap in a similar hedge (due to next-door-neighbor kids repeatedly SITTING on them , and the need to trim the damaged parts), they grew back just fine.
Glad to hear things have been taken care of to your satisfaction. Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Well, it's not that difficult to throw a tarp over a bush, then rope it back away from the stairs with stakes in the ground.
That is what we have now done with all the bushes for their tear-out-and-rebuild session tomorrow.
We're sure that the hedge will come back, it's just a matter of in how many years. For extensive cutting back of an azalea, it normally takes a year to bud green, then a year afterward to flower. This needs to do that and also gain about eight to ten inches of volume on what is really the shady side of the plant.
As an example, I had thrown up a newspaper from the street about two years ago, and it landed in the plant and broke a thumb-width inside branch. There was still a gap in the hedge up until last week when... well, let's just say the gap is hardly noticeable now. My best estimate is that it will take around five or six years for it to grow back to what it had been.
I think my mother cursed them when she said earlier this year that it was our best azalea year in a very long time.
I've found a bunch of things online about ways to speed up recovery, and we will be making use of them. Now I just have to go back up tomorrow and make sure the workers do what the owner said they would.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
, and the need to trim the damaged parts), they grew back just fine.![[Smile]](smile.gif)