I'm heading up to BYU Utah this fall and I'm pretty nervous about it. I was just wondering if any Hatrackers have experiences there, good or bad, that they could share. Thanks for any help Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Utah!?
Haven't you heard that... Mormons live there?
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
Yes I'm pretty well aware of that. But being that I am one, it wont be much of a problem Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Brinestone (my wife) and I just graduated from BYU in April. I really enjoyed my time there. There are also several other BYU grads and students around, too.
Are there any specific sorts of experience stories you were looking for?
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
Ummmmm....not really but if there's "anything you wish you knew when you were a freshman" that you could share with me, that would be very appreciated
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
Don't join the film department. [ahem] I mean, the Media Arts department.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Get involved in a club or something. Go see Divine Comedy (a student comedy troupe). Get to know your professors. Also, try to find out which professors are good and which ones are bad, and pick your classes accordingly.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Become best friends with someone with Dining Plus.
Don't get discouraged by the big classes. Even if you know you won't be missed, go to lecture anyway.
Perfect Attendance makes a huge difference. No matter what, just *go* to class. It's why you're there.
Americal Heritage is a beast of a class. Once again, GO TO EVERY LECTURE AND LAB and DO ALL THE HOMEWORK. Take it from someone who...uh...learned the hard way.
Take HEPE online if you can be honest about it.
There's a geology block class by Professor Skinner. I took it last winter and loved it. He's really cool and you suddenly have tons of spare time the second half of the semester.
There are practically hundreds of clubs at BYU. If you're bored, it's your own fault. I did YJuggle my freshman year even though I didn't know the first thing about juggling, and had lots of fun.
There's an honors Book of Mormon Class that was my favorite ever...I think the teacher's name is Griffith.
If you know what you want to do, great. If you don't, don't worry about it quite yet. I wondered what I wanted to do with my life for a year and a half before getting accepted into my major just this past semester. It was a scary year and a half, but it was time I really needed. I'm still planning to graduate in 2007, but I might need a spring term in there somewhere.
Make friends and have fun. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ooh, yes! HEPE online is awesomely easy. So is Physical Science 100 online. For me, American Heritage was also a piece of cake, but I took it during spring term (less homework). If you can afford to do spring and summer terms, I'd recommend it. It's a good way to get through those general ed classes that you don't want to take.
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
This is awesome information...thank you all so much!!! I'm pretty worried about college, but hearing from people who've been there really helps
[ June 29, 2005, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: socal_chic ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I did American Heritage Honors and really, really enjoyed my class.
Heimdinger, or some variant, was the professor. . . young guy, very charismatic, lots of enthusiasm.
Posted by His Savageness (Member # 7428) on :
In regards to your Book of Mormon classes (or any other religion classes) I have two words for you: Stan Johnson. He is one of the only religion professors at BYU that doesn't believe that religion classes should be harder than Bio Chemistry and Astro Physics combined.
Posted by aragorn64 (Member # 4204) on :
I recently went there for a youth conference, so I'll warn you: don't climb trees and don't have waterfights. ^_^
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Here's one: don't turn off your B.S. filters just because you're at an LDS school.
I know it's not everyone who does this, but a lot of kids who go to BYU (and their parents) believe that there is something magical about BYU that prevents the faculty from presenting and the students from being exposed to anything spiritually harmful, or damaging to the student's testimony. (For non-LDS 'rackers, yes, this really is a concern of many LDS students and their parents. They worry about being corrupted in college, and think BYU is the "safe" way to go.)
Hopefully, you already have the tools to discern right from wrong, good from evil, wise from foolish, etc. Don't stop using those tools just because you are at BYU.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Inform yourself. Nothing kills enthusiasm like an incompetent or moody professor.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Well, in that respect, it probably is safer than other colleges. There aren't going to be frats and wild parties and drugs and all that stuff. But that doesn't mean it's Zion.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Have Geoff tell you about the film department at BYU if you want the hair-raising stories.
I have a friend who was a film major, but switched programs when he became uncomfortable. Turns out that even in Provo, you can get girls to take their clothes off if you tell them it's for a movie.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
JB:"Well, in that respect, it probably is safer than other colleges."
Actually, it's not. It can be, but because so many people naively assume there's nothing to worry about, it becomes easier for people to take advantage of that naivete. The pitfalls are not seen because they are not expected, and big problems can result.
At a school where the major problems are all out in the open (e.g. wild parties, drinking, etc.), it is easier to avoid them, and so in a sense that school might be "safer". At least, for a certain kind of student.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Take Paul Merrill for a religion class. I would suggest being very careful when selecting religion profs. I had my worst (spiritual) experiences in religion classes from profs teaching their opinion as doctrine. Paul Merrill was by far the best I had.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
quote:Turns out that even in Provo, you can get girls to take their clothes off if you tell them it's for a movie.
WHAT? If I'd known about THAT, I would have stayed!
I left for the opposite reason — the fact that they self-righteously condemned me as a danger to the department because of my outspoken opinions.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
That's right, opinions are very dangerous. I hear they are contagious, as well.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
UofUlawguy: Are you speaking from experience or just hypothesizing? 'Cause I don't know anyone who was "taken advantage of" because of their naivete.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Since I'm naturally a bit of a rebel, I think I thrive more, spiritually, in an environment where my religion makes me different from other people.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
That's funny that two people in the same department can have such different experiences.
My friend's favorite class - Documentaries - was cancelled because the class projects that came out of it so often had so much nudity in them.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I would imagine that, whether intentionally or not, at BYU there are two main groups - LDS, non LDS.
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
I just looked at the comments on ratemyprofessors.com (thanks EL JT de Spang!) for all of my profs for fall semester (except one who wasn't listed) and they look pretty good----a couple sound kinda scary but I guess you can't always get the good ones...
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
But the second of those two main groups accounts for about 2 percent of the population of BYU. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
So what's your major, social chic?
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Exactly.
One of my best friends from college is working in SLC, and he has literally been ostracized for not being LDS.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Really? My office is over 50% not LDS. It seems there are a lot fewer LDS in Salt Lake City than there are in Provo.
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
Ummm...I think it's gonna be Geography with a global emphasis, but I have no idea of what I want to actually do after college. Right now I'm just looking for something to study that I'll be interested in and hope it takes me in the right direction.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I've visited, but I was too young to really see things like that, but he says that anyone he meets outside of work, be it at the gym, the park, golf course, mall, whatever, ask whether he's LDS first thing. Or they assume he is.
When they find out he's not, end of conversation a lot of the time. I think he's especially talking about girls being interested in dating only within their faith.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Exactly.
One of my best friends from college is working in SLC, and he has literally been ostracized for not being LDS.
Are we talking about BYU or Salt Lake City? They're incredibly different demographically.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:I think he's especially talking about girls being interested in dating only within their faith.
That's fair, though. Marrying within the faith is very important to most Mormons, so not wanting to date out of it just makes sense.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I went from talking about BYU to talking about SLC.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Yeah, but give a guy a chance, and you might discover that priorities can change. I hate to limit my options.
It doesn't matter to me what someone believes so long as they believe in something.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
JB:"Are you speaking from experience or just hypothesizing?"
Not quite either. I did not attend BYU. But I have been around BYU students, alumni, and boosters my whole life. I became aware of the perils of BYU when I chose to attend the U of U. I was taken aback by the reactions of the BYU folk I knew. They were certain that I would be led astray, or at the very least that I would be dodging beer bottles and thongs as I made my way to classes, in which classes I would be berated for my beliefs and required to accept all manner of anti-LDS indoctrination. If only I had chosen BYU, I would have been "safe".
I found this to be a very strange reaction, so as I attended the U, I took note of the differences in my experience and the experiences of the BYU students I knew. The first I noticed was, obviously, that all the warnings I had received were completely false. The second, which took longer to become apparent, was that the idyllic pictures of BYU life were equally false.
For example:
I never had a professor who was excommunicated for advocating doctrines the LDS Church considers false. Some BYU students did.
If any of my professors ever said anything that was directly contrary to my beliefs, I at least had the clear understanding that they were not representative of or endorsed by the leadership of my Church. BYU students rarely have this advantage.
If any student at my school was participating in activities that are repellent to my religious beliefs, they had no reason to hide it, or to pretend to be someone they weren't. Because of BYU's honor code, students must perforce hide any such behaviors from their peers, who then often end up finding out about them under disturbing or dangerous circumstances.
It was easy for me to separate in my mind the things I was taught by my professors and the things I was taught by my religion. I have found that many BYU students and alumni have difficulty making this distinction.
I was not tempted to place my school or any of its programs on a pedestal because of my love for my Church. The two were, after all, unconnected. I have had a number of conversations with BYU folk whose love of the LDS Church makes them unwilling or unable to bear any criticism of the school.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I've visited, but I was too young to really see things like that, but he says that anyone he meets outside of work, be it at the gym, the park, golf course, mall, whatever, ask whether he's LDS first thing. Or they assume he is.
When they find out he's not, end of conversation a lot of the time. I think he's especially talking about girls being interested in dating only within their faith.
I can't help but think that your friend is exaggerating. In 1990, Salt Lake was about 70 percent LDS, and I'd guess it's a little less than that now. And a pretty substantial number of people aren't active in the church.
I've lived most of my life in Salt Lake, and I've had plenty of non-Mormon friends, and I've never seen this "You're not LDS? I'm not talking to you anymore" attitude.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
JT, if it is important to them, then advocating that they date him in order to let him change their minds is NOT going to help his case there.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I don't think it's that blunt, and I'm sure he is exaggerating a bit, however, I doubt he's making it up. He feels ostracized, and he thinks it's at least partially because he's not LDS. Not being there first hand, I tend to believe him.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Going to BYU, for me, was kind of a hajj I wanted to immerse myself in Mormon culture at the center of Mormon society, and then leave and return to the normal world
Hey, kat, my wife is wondering if you know what those documentaries were about — how they justified doing nudity so often, particularly at the one film school in America where they would be most likely to be censured for it ...
EDIT: Now my sister is wondering, too You've started an uproar over here ...
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:JT, if it is important to them, then advocating that they date him in order to let him change their minds is NOT going to help his case there.
I'm not trying to change their minds, I'm trying to change your mind.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Lawguy: Fair enough. You make a lot of good points. I think the fact that a lot of people call the Y "the Lord's university" says a lot; those people always sort of concerned me. But a lot of the students I knew had a pretty good perspective on just what BYU is and isn't.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I don't know, but I can ask.
JT: I'm confused, but oddly flattered. If that wasn't supposed to happen, don't tell me; my morning just brightened.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Cool, thanks!
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
A lot of non-LDS people in Utah feel ostracized, whether they really are or not. For example, if they are in business, they might feel like all the LDS business people are really chummy with each other, and that they are left out. If they are in high school, they might feel left out because most of the LDS kids go to seminary classes together. They might feel left out if their neighbors all go to the same LDS church on Sunday, and to the same periodic LDS parties. It's kind of like being with a bunch of people who have known each other for years and have a lot of inside jokes that you just don't get.
There are examples of real ostracism or exclusivity, too. Some people don't want their kids playing with neighbors who are not LDS (these people are completely whacked). Some people give preference to LDS people in their business dealings, often because they (wrongly) assume that LDS people are more honest. Occasionally someone really will ask what ward/stake you are in, or where you went on your mission. However, I have never personally experienced any of these things. The stories are always second hand. I do not doubt that they happen, but I cannot say that they are at all the norm.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
JB:"But a lot of the students I knew had a pretty good perspective on just what BYU is and isn't."
I am not anti-BYU (except in sports). But my advice to any prospective BYU student, or parent who wants to send a child to BYU, is to make absolutely certain that the student has the above perspective before going.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
And I'm not anti-U of U (except in sports). That's definitely good advice, though.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
UofU:
There's at least as much bias coming from the U against BYU's supposed holier-than-thou/hypocrite dichotomy. IMO and from experience, the sense of rivalry is nurtured far more by U students. As for BYU itself, I thought it was a very nice, peaceful place to go to school. If there was rigidity, it was mostly avoidable.
That said, I had a difficult time adjusting to the place when I first came out from MN. It was a big culture shock. The first time I heard the bell tower chime "Come, Come Ye Saints" on the hour, I about fell over in shock. Were they serious?!
Socal chic, I am one who couldn't stand my Y-group. That's the little get-to-know-you exercise they put new freshmen through. Ugh. I hated that experience. But others enjoy it and make permanent friends.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
By the way, you've gotta love this year's NBA and NFL drafts.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
afr:"There's at least as much bias coming from the U against BYU's supposed holier-than-thou/hypocrite dichotomy."
Ah, but I said nothing about the holier-than-thou thing. That's a completely different issue, and is indeed simply a matter of rivalry.
afr:"the sense of rivalry is nurtured far more by U students."
This is generally true when talking about sports, but that's about it. And even this has changed in the past few years.
afr:"there was rigidity, it was mostly avoidable."
Again, I said nothing about rigidity. That is another separate issue.
I have about four separate rants about BYU, and I have only given one of them here. If I ever give one of the others, bring up your other points then. They will definitely be apropos.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I haven't been following the drafts. What did I miss?
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
First pick in the NFL draft: Alex Smith, Utah.
First pick in the NBA draft: Andrew Bogut, Utah.
This is the first time this has happened to any school, ever.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
quote:afr:"the sense of rivalry is nurtured far more by U students."
This is generally true when talking about sports, but that's about it. And even this has changed in the past few years.
Not in my experience. It's across the board. I wasn't really talking about sports rivalry, though. That has definitely ramped up around BYU after some crappy football and basketball seasons. Utah has become the team to beat again.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:A lot of non-LDS people in Utah feel ostracized, whether they really are or not. For example, if they are in business, they might feel like all the LDS business people are really chummy with each other, and that they are left out. If they are in high school, they might feel left out because most of the LDS kids go to seminary classes together. They might feel left out if their neighbors all go to the same LDS church on Sunday, and to the same periodic LDS parties. It's kind of like being with a bunch of people who have known each other for years and have a lot of inside jokes that you just don't get.
I think it's that kind of situation for my friend. He's really late to the party and he doesn't get any of the inside jokes.
Kat: Call it unintentional flattery. That was not anywhere in the spectrum of reactions I'd anticipated.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*sigh* Oh, it was fun while it lasted.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Yeah, I loved the drafts, and congrats to the Utes by the way.
I love Alex Smith, Bogut I'm not sold on just yet.
It's risky to evaluate collegiate big men because they traditionally play against watered down competition. But from what I read, Bogut has the tools to be very good, I'm just skeptical.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
That's funny. I think that Bogut has a better chance of being a star in the NBA than Smith does of being a star in the NFL. Mainly, that's because of their bodies (strength, size, etc.).
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think two things give Smith a good chance of surviving in the NFL - his accuracy and his mobility. Those two things can make a very efficient quarterback, and if he figures out the offense before he gets gunshy from being splattered next year, he can step in and have a decent season, I think.
Bogut, I just don't know. He's thin as a rail, and I've never seen him play with any fire.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
afr:"the sense of rivalry is nurtured far more by U students."
You know, you might have a point about the students. A lof of BYU students come from out of state, and they have not been exposed to the rivalry before. Once they are in school, they might get a little excited about it, but there's still not much reason for it. Utah, on the other hand, has mostly in-state students, who have grown up with a sense of the rivalry, and buy into it.
The real rivalry, I think, actually exists between people who live along the Wasatch Front but may not have gone to either school. They just attach themselves to one school or the other.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
I kind of see the rivalry between the U of U and BYU like the rivalry between Canada and the states. Canada is very proud to not be the US and kind of defines itself that way. The US is like, "Oh yeah, Canada. That big country to the north of us. Hehehehe."
I'm speaking as someone with dual Canadian and US citizenship, by the way.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
JT:"I think two things give Smith a good chance of surviving in the NFL - his accuracy and his mobility."
His accuracy is good, but I still want to see more before getting too excited about his mobility. A lot of his success running the ball at Utah had to do with the O-line, as well as the availability of other offensive threats that had to be covered. Although I watched a lot of his games, I could never tell whether he was really that agile and quick, or whether he was just good at taking advantage of the opporunity to run.
I think Smith's biggest advantage is his intelligence. Quarterbacks as a rule tend to be some of the most intelligent players on the field, but he is exceptional.
JT:"Bogut, I just don't know. He's thin as a rail, and I've never seen him play with any fire."
Bogut thin? I actually think he's very solidly-built. He has broad shoulders and plenty of muscle. Of course, when I think thin, I think of Shawn Bradley or Manute Bol.
As for fire, you might have a point. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to see as many of his games as I would have liked, so I can't say.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
B:" I kind of see the rivalry between the U of U and BYU like the rivalry between Canada and the states. Canada is very proud to not be the US and kind of defines itself that way. The US is like, "Oh yeah, Canada. That big country to the north of us. Hehehehe."
I would expect you, as a BYU person, to see the rivalry that way. On the other hand, many Utah people (not me, btw) see it more like the country folk and the city dwellers. The country folk worry that, if their young'uns go to the big city, they'll get corrupted by all those worldly ways, or be killed within the first week. The city folk can't figure out what the country folk are talking about, but they do enjoy reading newspaper articles about all the weird things that go on in the country.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think Smith is both quick and agile, but I actually think his intelligence can work against him on the field. Your smartest quarterbacks aren't always your best quarterbacks.
Example - Brian Griese. He had the same wonderlic score as Smith, 39, and he's hardly a solid pro, although he played as well last season as I've ever seen him play.
You don't want your field general out there overthinking things. You need to play on instinct, to react and make the throw without pausing to wonder if you're being baited. Simple is fast.
Exception - Peyton Manning. Peyton's a smart guy, but that's not the only, or even the main, reason he's a great QB. He does his homework, sure, but he's excellent at making the correct read along with delivering the ball where it needs to go.
More to say, but my fingers are tired.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I guess you wouldn't call Bogut Shawn Bradley skinny, but he's about Tim Duncan's build, and I just got done watching Timmy get manhandled by the Pistons. I think Dwight Howard has much better physical skills than Bogut. I liked him as number one last year, but Bogut makes me nervous, even though they are similar players.
The problem with centers in the current NBA is that they have to be able to bang with guys the size of Shaq, and run with Amare Stoudamire. They're like the tight ends of the NBA. You gotta block the DE, but be able to outrun the LBs. It's a tough position to be good at. Nearly every center in the league is a placeholder.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Boy, nothing kills a thread like some sports talk, eh?
Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
Ain't that the truth! Well, I got a lot of good advice, so thanks to all who helped Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)