I've noticed that we don't really care about keeping a populace that is informed and thinking. In the past week, I've received e-mail alerts about drastic cuts to both gifted education and public broadcasting.
I've received notices about outlawing flag-burning and providing funding to further our spy network.
What does this say about our country? I think it shows a country living a life of fear rather than seeking understanding. We'd rather invest in war, death, and keeping our distance than in listening, learning, and creatively working for solutions.
I'm rather ill at ease with the news these days. It's not turning out to be the kind of country I want to live in.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
It's almost impossible to maintain long-term idealogical control in a well-educated, enlightened, and free-thinking society. The powers that be have to limit those things as much as possible while they can in order to maintain their power base.
Recent events, however, make me optimistic in my belief that the majority of conservatives in America are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with their current leadership. Hopefully more of them will be brave enough to stand up to their party as the RadCons struggle to tighten their grip.
Posted by Parsimony (Member # 8140) on :
It's still the country we love, underneath the crap. We've been duped into thinking the most important things are are democrat vs republican, conservative vs liberal. These are portrayed as huge differences, us vs them, when really the difference is very little. We are all Americans, and more importantly, we are all human beings.
We've been tricked into believing a burning piece of fabric that symbolizes a country or an action of that country is the most terrible thing we could see, rather than a relatively peaceful protest that cannot be stopped anyway. If they tell us enough that public broadcasting and NPR are liberally biased and hate the president, then people start to believe it, people who have never watched it or listened to it.
All this partisan two-party politics is dumbing us down. Howard Dean, George Bush, John Kerry, Bill Frist, these should not look like a list of political enemies, it should look like a list of people who are serving the public. It should look like a list of people who work together to ensure our lives are better.
In the words of The Daily Show: "It just doesn't have the kind of credibility it used to have"
"The Media?"
"No, the truth"
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Hmm... how about video games, sports, and pornography vs. book sales?
Or Education vs. Advertising?
Or insane luxuries vs. charitable donations?
Or legal/insurance and sales commissions vs. production?
Not that I am necessarily saying there's anything wrong with the "bad" things on my list... but I bet we'd be horrified if we actually looked at what those expenditure ratios said about us as a nation, and perhaps shocked at what they say about us, individually.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
But how much damage has to be done in the name of "protecting our people" before there is a change? And will it be too late? I'm rather disturbed by the seeming ease with which Americans have traded wild lands for oil, freedoms of speech and travel for protection, and funding of our best chances for the future (an educated public, gifted children) for maintaining failing social programs (Social Security). I feel like we're investing in the ambitions and fears of frightened old men, not the future of our children.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I totally agree, Jim-Me. It's not just our politics. It's our public focus in general that disturbs me. Why are we obsessing over which star is dating whom when there are scientific discoveries being made, kids killed and raped by wars, and our lives are short? What really matters to us as a society and to us personally?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jenny Gardener: What really matters to us as a society and to us personally?
If I had to put it in one word, I would say "escape".
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Jenny we're seeing the same cuts in gifted education here too.
The gifted education teacher in my daughter's school has just been informed that she'll keep her job, but because they cut the jobs of two other teacher's, she's now the gifted education teacher for three elementary schools and two middle schools, spread out across the county.
It's very upsetting, I think my oldest daughter gained a lot from daily participation in that class, and if any of my other children are ever in that program, they'd only see her once or twice a week as opposed to once a day.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think it's a mistake to say that you can tell what America's values are by looking at the government's spending on it. Just because it is important to us doesn't mean we want the government spending money on it.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Are you saying that the government *shouldn't* be spending money on education, public broadcasting, or the NDA?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I said nothing of the sort.
I said that just because the government doesn't spend money on it is no idication that it isn't important to America or Americans.
Here is a small list of some things that are much more important to America than you would think from looking at how much the government spends on them:
Popular music Summer blockbusters Religion Beer Fashion New Cars Harry Potter Reality Television Internet discussion boards
I was responding to just the title of this thread:
quote: Topic: America's Values, Evidenced through Funding
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jenny Gardener: But how much damage has to be done in the name of "protecting our people" before there is a change? And will it be too late? I'm rather disturbed by the seeming ease with which Americans have traded wild lands for oil, freedoms of speech and travel for protection, and funding of our best chances for the future (an educated public, gifted children) for maintaining failing social programs (Social Security). I feel like we're investing in the ambitions and fears of frightened old men, not the future of our children.
Very true, and if this continues, our society will collapse. It's that simple. These people in charge are trying to build structures out of plywood on sand. They only care about how much money they can get now, or the here-after, nothing about this day and age or the future. It's extremely disturbing.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:It's almost impossible to maintain long-term idealogical control in a well-educated, enlightened, and free-thinking society. The powers that be have to limit those things as much as possible while they can in order to maintain their power base.
You know, it bothers me how much the phrase "Ignorance is Strength!" applies here. Next thing you know, we'll be going to war in the name of peace or something.
--j_k
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Jenny, how about we get together all the people who oppose this stuff and secede? You can be High Queen of the Land. Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
You're a little behind the times JK... we already did that Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
True, but to be fair, you had always been at war with Iraq.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alcon: You're a little behind the times JK... we already did that
Well then! Now all we need is the "Freedom Is Slavery" act of 2005.
...I don't like where this is going.
--j_k
[edit] King of Men, America was _never_ at war with Iraq, but we've always been at war with al Qaeda. And the Taliban. And Saddam Hussien. And...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Well then! Now all we need is the "Freedom Is Slavery" act
Wasn't that the Patriot Act?
(Sorry. Someone had to say it. )
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
Honestly, what freedoms have YOU lost personally? In other words, what can't you do now that you could do before?
Unless you can come up with concrete answers to those questions, than this argument is mostly political idealogue smoke and mirrors.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Not exactly. This is how it starts. Like slowly boiling a frog. An act like the Patriot Act passes. Slowly, subtly our freedoms are eroded before we even notice it. And the naysayers state it's only smoke and mirrors...
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
Well, at least you can call me a name if you can't answer the question.
Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
I don't know that we've lost freedoms, but I think I see what she's getting at. We've lost drive, like a national sense of purpose. It's hard to identify the objectives behind actions. If our objectives are peace and progress... But there's this thing about bureaucracies and how objectives are rarely the focal point of their activities...
Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
Naysayer isn't derogatory, Occassional, it's just a term
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
Did the United States ever have a national sense of purpose (I mean other than expansion and many different theories of spreading democracy)? From my understanding of U.S. history the only time there was a "national sense of purpose" was when there was a major war. Any other times were considered morally corrupt or financially laise fare (1890s, early 1910s, 1920s, late 1930s-early 1940s, 1960s-now).
Didn't say it was derogatory (although perhaps it was implied), just that it was a name and not a true answer to the question.
Posted by Lara (Member # 132) on :
Hah hah. Bingo.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Actually, KoM is right. It was nice to have someone else (for once) point out that the war with Iraq never stopped the entire time between GWI and GWII. We were in state of cease-fire that Iraq regularly violated, but the declared war with Iraq technically lasted from the advent of Operation Desert Storm until the Capture (or liberation, depending on your PoV) of Baghdad.
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