Just saw that. It was kind of expected... What I can't believe is the participation percentage! I mean, I don't think there were as many voters at the last presidential election!
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
Yes...
It's another road now... I think The re-writing of the text may be more "human" for the container and the containt.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Although I think the EU is an excellent idea, this may be for the best. Perhaps the Brussels elite will write something that can actually be read by non-lawyers, this time.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I didn't have a problem parsing it.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
Tsk tsk, fugu.
Bragging is bad form. Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: I didn't have a problem parsing it.
Typical.
I still have that crazy list of books you recommended read and it's not exactly fluff.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I'm still not a lawyer Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Yep, eg the language concerning a common foreign policy. Which in the US eg allowed Reagan to force American states to continue trade with SouthAfrica during Apartheid. Like I said, a race to the lowest common denominator.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Ah yes, that wonderful logic by which the mere existence of national governments is a race to the lowest common denominator -- because part of the nature of national governments is that they unify foreign policy (though of course not everything unifying foreign policy is a national government).
Not to mention that the unification of foreign policy under the Constitution is in fact very limited, and largely limited to what exists in practice currently.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Posted by Lille Mu (Member # 7115) on :
Problem is that most of the french people has think french and not european : they wanted the government change, so they voted the contrary of the president's wish. Even if it was not the purpose of the referendum to protest against Chirac and Raffarin. I'm very disappointed, now.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
me too...
Posted by dh (Member # 6929) on :
I suppose all three of you voted "oui".
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I very much doubt Lille Mu did, considering she's from Norway. (Or was it Sweden?)
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Oh, also, its not like there's anything unusual about an EU treaty being hard to read; the Constitution was far more readable than the others, and they've been approved in processes that include referenda in various countries.
Do you have any particularly good reason people should vote no on the treaty, dh?
Posted by dh (Member # 6929) on :
Did I say that I did? Did I even indicate any preference or opinion either way?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I think you may have in other threads, I certainly suspect it from the tone of your latest question.
And if you don't have such a preference/opinion, you could always answer "no" to my question Posted by dh (Member # 6929) on :
I certainly don't recall ever expressing an opinion on the subject, and there was certainly nothing implied either way in my last question. I think you just suffer from Hatracker's Syndrome, which makes you want to turn everything into an argument.
I will leave your question unanswered.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
You're asking others for their opinions, one might think it polite to offer your own. And yes, the way you phrased the last question is commonly used to imply a particular position on an issue.
Posted by dh (Member # 6929) on :
You're imagining things.
I did not ask anymone for their opinions, I was deducing how they voted from observing what they posted. One could say that I was stating the obvious. I didn't ask anyone to elaborate, or to explain why they voted one way or the other. You have to learn the difference between observing and arguing.
I wasn't stating a position, or even hinting that I might have one. I was observing theirs. Learn the difference. Not everything is an argument, even on a forum. It am not required to offer my opinion on anything in any case. Nor am I required to even have one. Last I checked, it was not obligatory to be violently opinionated about everything.
Above all, I find it exceedingly annoying when people assign me an opinion when they can't find anyone else to argue with.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I have to admit, dh, you're being much more confrontational than fugu...who is not, in fact, being argumentative and confrontational at all.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
dh, you started a thread on the EU const., why are you so touchy?
quote: You have to learn the difference between observing and arguing.
And you could learn the difference between a polite rebuff and ranting.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Ooo, cute. The Hatrack Mafia has decided to go on one its lynchings again.
Ignore 'em, dh. Any response to their charges 'll just be used as an excuse for more rock-throwing nonsense.
[ June 01, 2005, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
there is a Hatrack mafia? why am I not part of it?
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I call casting the first stone.
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
quote: Ignore 'em, dh.
Usually I do. Usually I just don't say anything and leave the discussion, but sometimes the annoyance is just too much for me.
Fugu is one of the prime offenders, but by no means is he the only one who tries to degenerate every thread and discussion into an "I'm right you're wrong" rock-throwing contest. This is one of the reasons I'm wasting less and less of my time on Hatrack. I haven't seen a good, actual discussion here in ages. (Some) people desperately want to divide into two opposing sides and duke it out, and (as we see here) feel as if a divine right to perpetual arguing were somehow being infringed when not everyone bows to their wishes.
Petty is much too kind a word.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Why bother starting a thread on the subject if you don't want to express an opinion, or don't have one?
quote: Do you have any particularly good reason people should vote no on the treaty, dh?
How is this question offensive or petty?
Posted by Lille Mu (Member # 7115) on :
Heh !!! Who has said that I'm from Norway ???? I'm fond of Norway and want to go there (that's explain my scandinavian-like name) but I'm french (if I were norwegian I would write better english! And I wouldn't be for EU...)and I voted "oui" 'cause I'm stupid enough to believe in EU. Sorry to disappoint King of men not to be a norwegian...
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Wow. I've never seen someone degenerate from aloofness to self-vicitimation. I disagree with Fugu frequently, and I daresay he most often comes out on top, and I don't decide to declare myself the injured martyr.
Get some thicker skin, and quit your whining. There wasn't anything remotely offensive, petty, or overly argumentative here-well, until I posted this anyway:)
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Yay a smiley face! Everything is ok!
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Isn't it though, jebus! Your sarcasm is endlessly refreshing and varying!
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