This is topic Coolness & the disparity between the Original Trilogy and this Latest Nonsense in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
who's even bringing up the rear on any sort of coolness chart?
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
The lightsaber fights in Empire and Jedi are much better than the fancy junk they got going on in the New Silliness. Ewan and Hayden look like they're trying to keep up with a dance instead of trying to hack each other to pieces. Which works for me if you consider Jedi to be that cool, but make for a compelling fight sequence, it does not.
Which is what they get when they don't rehire Bob Anderson to be their swordmaster.
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
I like the newer lightsaber battles better than the old. No offense. That's about all I like, though.
There's more humor and character in the original trilogies. And the combination of Han Solo, Chewbacca, Luke Skywalker, and Princess Leia is priceless. None of that chemistry exists between Obi Wan, Anakin, and Padme.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
As a fencer, I liked the new lightsaber battles as well.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I really liked the new lightsaber battles more. The Darth Maul v. Jedi battle is probably my favorite, with Obi-Wan v. Anakin as my second. But in a close third is Luke v. Vader in Return of the Jedi.
The humor between Han Solo, Chewie, Luke and Leia is priceless, and a combination of fantastic acting and good writing. They didn't cast the right people or write them the right lines in the prequels for that sort of thing. FoolishTook is right, the chemistry just isn't there.
Still, I like the space battle graphics better. Actually I like all the CGI stuff, well maybe not ALL of it but a grand majority of it certainly.
If they could have married some of the CGI and duels from the prequels with the atmosphere and chemistry of the actors from the OT, it would be fantastic. There's always a hope for that in the next trilogy.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
The new lightsaber battles were pretty cool. The Obi-wan v. Anakin face-off was a little more satisfying than the Darth Maul ("who was that made-up man?"), for me.
Though, prior to the final showdown (and McGregor's generally superior acting ability), I thought Obi-wan came off as kind of a wuss. Loses every battle he engages in, and what's with that fear of flying thing? ("why did it have to be snakes?")
harumph!
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I thought the scriptwriters utterly gutted the character of Padme. In the first two prequels, sucky as they were, at least the princess had the guts to do something. In the third, what does she do except whine about how Anakin is doing Bad Stuff (tm)? Oh yes, she goes off in search of him, and then lies down to die when he dumps her. Come on, losing the will to live because some loser boyfriend doesn't want you anymore? Abandoning two children in the process? The act of a seriously wussy character. Obviously they had to write her out of the movies so Luke can be an orphan, but couldn't she have gotten to pick up a lightsaber or something?
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I was disappointed by the battle on Kashyyk. Not enough Wookie combat. And I didn't like that fact that you STILL couldn't understand what the Wookies were saying. Either way, I think my favorite lightsaber battle of all time is Obi-Wan v. Darth Vader in a New Hope just because of its simplicity. Everything else was too complicated and more "OOOH! Look at the special effects," and the point was lost.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Ugh, I watched that saber battle last week and cringed at how clumsy it looked. Alec Guiness and his double-handed light saber grip, and the hacks they took at each other that left enough time for the other to go grab a beer in between...
Yeah. The new saber fights definitely get my vote. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Its all a firework show. I'd rather have the simplistic, clumsy fight that convey emotion rather than the dancing. You've got to remember, when that movie came out that fight was cinematically unrivaled. Its only because of the advance in special effects that you are now disappointed. By far, it is the best.
Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
I think the best duel was between Qui-Gon and Darth maul.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
[to SteveRogers]No no no no. I think I could find a better sword fight from sometime back then. (Come on people, help me out here).
I think the point of a light saber as a weapon only used by the Jedi, is that it takes the force for you to use it correctly. It's meant to be used with speed and intuition, which is the kind of fighting that I see in Return of the Jedi and the prequels.
Granted, they are pretty flashy and at times it's hard to see what's going on, but I love that the actors had to train for a good long time in order to be able to pull off fights that look that good. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I was very disappointed by the character of Darth Maul. Why did they even introduce him just to die? It was plan stupid.
Edit:
Narnia, in the older trilogy Obi-Wan and Vader are both older, thus slower. Just the fact that Obi-Wan held his ground was impressive. Each lightsaber fight was special. You looked forward to them. In the prequels, it is ALL special effects and no heart. They fought, yes, and it was cinematically beautiful. But it was common place. And you didn't really care who won the fight. It was ALL special effects.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Pretty much the same reason for Count Dooku. What a stupid name. I laughed out loud the first time I saw his name on the crawl in Episode II.
Steve, but it wasn't all special effects! The special effects inserted the actual 'blades' of the light sabers...in fact, those same special effects were used in episodes IV, V and VI! I'll give you the geezer factor for A New Hope (and I did like that fight, I just like the new ones better). But the actors that worked like crazy to choreograph those battles in the prequels might get a little miffed if they heard you call those sequences 'nothing but special effects.'
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Narnia, what reason might you be referring to? Because I want to know.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
SteveRogers-
Seriously? You didn't care at all when Darth Maul skewered Qui-Gon? I practically screamed at the screen.
And Yoda was more than 800 when he fought Count Dooku, he didn't look that slow. I still cared about the fights, and they looked good.
I don't get why a lot of people here seem to think that anything with special effects is automatically the devil.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
[to Steve Rogers again]Oh, I guess I don't know their reasoning, but the reasoning seems to be similar for both cases. Palpatine needed a new apprentice for each prequel, one that would cause the 'Big Light Saber Battle at the End of the Movie'(tm). First it was Darth Maul, then Dooku...and we ended up with Darth Vader at the end of Episode III.
My question is what was the point of General Grievous? I mean, it was really cool to see Obi Wan beat a guy with four light sabers...but he came and went pretty quickly, didn't he?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
As someone who regularly fights with swords, I can tell you that the fights from the new trilogy aren't just special effects. That's swordsmanship. It's more athletic than the swordsmanship of the first trilogy--at least if you're talking about the fight between Vader and Obi-Wan.
But in any of the light saber fights, if you take away the shiny lights, they're still fighting with swords. Plastic or whatever they use, but swords nonetheless. It's an amalgation of a bunch of different styles, the lightsaber fighting. But it IS swordsmanship.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
KoM: I lost all respect for Padame when she fell for Anakin in episode II. If Anakin had been clever, subtle, charming, maybe I could have believed it. But he wasn't. In this last movie they at least tried to make him charming. They didn't succeed, but at least they tried.
This last movie she seemed to do little more than stare out the window.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Yeah. Women certainly knew their place, didn't they. Barefoot and pregnant, or waiting for said situation.
The one female Jedi didn't even get to get in a lick or two - she just got shot from behind.
Blech.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
The best lightsabre fight is between Luke and Vader at the end of VI. Next best is between Luke and Vader near the end of V.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Best thing about the New Silliness:
Obi-Wan always gets wet. And dangled off something.
Nah, I'm kidding. I like 'em all, though there was definitely more spirit in the OT characters than anyone managed for at least the first two prequels. Obi, Bail and Yoda managed a bit better in III, but mostly the Jedi had all the Charisma of a sack of wet mice.
I liked Qui-Gon in the first one. Liam Neeson did a good job with a lugubrious script. He's just likeable.
And he, like Maul, was introduced just to be killed off later,btw.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:But it IS swordsmanship.
Those actors didn't perform any of the jumps. Or the really cool part. They were stand in people assissted by special effects. And it was much too complicated. Like I've been saying, there isn't any emotion. Its all just, "Oooh, look at the sharp laser sword cutting that guy in half!" You didn't really CARE who won. That is what makes the lightsaber duel so satisfying.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Yes, Livvy, we all know you like 'em wet and dangling...
I want one of those giant iguanas that let you ride them.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:And he, like Maul, was introduced just to be killed off later,btw.
Not so much that time. Qui Gon was mentioned in III. He tied up the loose end pertaining to how Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda communicate with Luke after they die. He served one more purpose.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
And in Ep. I, he was the one who talked most of the "unifying force" or somesuch. Was Lucas hinting at it even then? He did say we would learn why Qui-Gon's body didn't disappear.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Yes, Livvy, we all know you like 'em wet and dangling..
Where is Sakeriver's goggle-eyed graemlin when you need it?
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
OK, how come Anakin didn't need all the training to become one with the Force while it years for Yoda and Obiwan?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"OK, how come Anakin didn't need all the training to become one with the Force while it years for Yoda and Obiwan?"
Perhaps he trained while Darth Vader. We never did establish whether the Dark Side of the Force was ineffective in the long run.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
I personally dislike the way that Yoda fightes in II and III. He confronts powere directly with power, never re-directing it, and never avoiding it.
As I'm watching him, I keep thinking that if he learned a little Judo or Aikido, he would become twice the warrior.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: OK, how come Anakin didn't need all the training to become one with the Force while it years for Yoda and Obiwan?
Because the REAL secret to getting a glowy blue afterlife is to die in front of Luke.
I agree with Portabello about Yoda's fighting. In episode 2 they talk up Yoda as a swordfighter and then he does all this ridiculous flipping around stuff (that's admittingly kinda fun to watch). I'd expect Yoda to just stand there in a defensive posture, and as soon as you take a swing at him he flawlessly counters the attack in a way that leaves you lacking a hand. (The other recurring theme, obviously)
--Enigmatic
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I was disppointed by the Emperor's lightsaber skills. I was expecting slow and majestic. But he was flying around like a horse fly. I think it would have been cool if he just walked towards them and just deflected attacks. Slow and majestic. It was all special effects then.
Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
quote:Originally posted by beverly: KoM: I lost all respect for Padame when she fell for Anakin in episode II. If Anakin had been clever, subtle, charming, maybe I could have believed it. But he wasn't. In this last movie they at least tried to make him charming. They didn't succeed, but at least they tried.
This last movie she seemed to do little more than stare out the window.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)