quote:

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I want more patience.

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I don't think they have this at Wal-Mart. I offer occasional baby sitting services but I'm not near you, I don't think.

Edit: People always beat me!!!!! Gosh darn. (((romany))) Patience is a virtue, unless its an annoying little animal and then you should rip its head off. You can quote me on that.

[ May 05, 2005, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: SteveRogers ]
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
The correct phrase is, "God please grant me more patients, NOW D@#$#@$@#!!!!"
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
(((hugs))) Oh, sweetie, I know the feeling so well...

I would agree. You need a break and some grown-up time.
 

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Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 
It does sound like you need a break. Do you have anyone that could watch them for you (even just for a few hours, but a day or two would be really nice)?
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
I'll babysit!!

romany: Take it easy.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
We have no family nearby, unfortunatley. I do have friends that if I asked, would take them for a day...but I just cannot ask, I would feel like I'm imposing.

Oh, and next week I get to drive to Oregon with them by myself , stay in a place with no internet for 5 days ( supposed to be 7, but I am using Livvie's rehearsals as an excuse to cut it shorter) and then drive back. This is supposed to be a break.

Everytime I tell Brian we need to get away by ourselves, he says there is no one to watch the kids. I've had two offers. Soemtimes I think he's more attached than I am.
 

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Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 
It might be a good idea, considering your current frazzled state and the upcoming trip, to go ahead and call up those friends to watch your kids for a day or so, so that you can unwind sufficiently that you don't explode next week. Being cooped up in a vehicle with family for several days is difficult, even if you're not already stressed out beforehand. If they are your friends, they'll understand that you need the time and you will be able to help repay their kindness when they need something you can help them with.
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 

quote:

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I would feel like I'm imposing.

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Don't. Just ask. If they say no, they say no. If you need a break, you need a break. If they're your friends, they should understand.

Edit: lud! You beat me!

[ May 05, 2005, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: SteveRogers ]
 

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Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
 
If you've got three willing friends you could make the burdon easier for everyone by splitting the kids up.
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
But then they might freak out because they don't have any of their accomplices. That may not be a good idea.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
Where in Washington do you live? I have some friends up there.
 

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Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
 
Sounds like a job for Super Nanny!
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
YEAH! How do you get on that show? I know some people who could use the help.
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
Btw, romany, you ARE a good mommy. You love your children, and it's natural to need some time away from them. I wish I were closer, so I could babysit them while you went away for a bit.
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
It sounds like you're being too hard on yourself for being too hard on the kids. There is some space between "no good" and perfect. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to be better than you imagine the alternative is. Alternative 1: Public school. Alternative 2: Job for you, public school and daycare. Alternative (my personal favorite): Rob a bank, go to jail, kids will be distributed among relatives or foster care and your husband will probably remarry and then your kids will have a step mom. Just a little black humor/perspective. Don't know if it will work for you.

(((Romany)))
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 

quote:

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you ARE a good mommy.

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Any mother who feels they are doing a bad job parenting their children, in most cases, is doing a very good job. I'm sure my mother was in a living h*** (I'm trying not to cuss at all ever again.) when I was little.
 

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Posted by Talison (Member # 7935) on :
 
I was going to say I would happily watch the kids for you if you were anywhere near me but you are actually in the same state (The kids probably wouldn’t be too happy with a complete stranger though)

If you feel like asking a friend to watch the kids is an imposition, offer to trade kid-watching (if they have their own) or maybe a lunch or dinner out on you in exchange.

Everyone needs a break now and then *hugs*
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Maybe you could get elephant tranquilizers on the black market. (((romany)))
 

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Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
(((romany))) I echo the sentiments above...the trading for kid-watching is an excellent idea.

Hubby can't take them anywhere for a night, or watch them while you go to a movie or something?
 

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Posted by no. 6 (Member # 7753) on :
 
I hope you can work it out, but really, why is public schooling such a bad option?
 

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Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
 
Well, whatever you do, just "Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead"
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
My kids go to public school. Though we did move so they wouldn't have to go to a public school not of our choice. It was pretty extravagant, really, so when I'm hateful of people being extravagant, I have to remember that it's all relative. (P.S. I work also, though my brother watches the kids. He sort of scares the hell out of all my neighbors. The really good thing about it is that I don't have to stay home if someone is sick.)

[ May 05, 2005, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: mothertree ]
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 

quote:

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Well, whatever you do, just "Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead"

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I don't get it!
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
Bah -- forget Brian (not really, just for a day) and get one of your willing friends to watch the kids and spend a day at home by yourself. Even if all you do is catch up on the housework, I guarantee you that you will feel like you have the energy to be the mommy you want to be, and if you can get out and do something you enjoy -- even for an hour or a half hour -- all the better.

Although I am working, I've had similar issues, and my patience definitely wears thin. I grit my teeth and yell and am grumpy and even silly things that shouldn't bother me do. I hear you! It makes me feel like a bad mommy and a bad wife, too.
 

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Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
I have days like that, too. Yesterday comes to mind right off. And the day before.

Doesn't mean you're a bad mommy. As has been mentioned, the fact that you're aware of it, and that it matters, puts you several steps beyond many parents who think they're doing a great job. But yeah -- get yourself some alone time. And drink lots of water. I don't know why, entirely, but that always helps me. I think it's the physical drop in temperature. (((romanylass)))

--Pop
 

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Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
 
Listen to Pop, he gives good advice.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
HUG

You're not a bad Mommy.

You know what? I only have ONE I'm homeschooling, and I yell at him if not every a day, almost every day. I say I'm sorry when I'm wrong, and have a calm talk about it with him LATER when I'm right. What can ya do.

I totally agree I just want him to do as he's told when he's told to do it. How freaking LONG can it take to put on a pair of underwear? Kids are terribly annoying, and also terribly wonderful. So are mothers!

I think you're doing a good job!
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Put them in school. You need the break from trying to cope with multiple kids simultaneously. And they need a structured environment in which to burn off their energy.

Rare is the mother who has the disposition to be a MaryPoppins nanny. Nor should that be considered to be a realistic goal.
MaryPoppins could use magic to distract the kids. MaryPoppins got time off&away, and could even quit if she wanted. Usually, just having the option to quit relieves most of the pressure of putting up with the un-put-up-able.

Mom's have neither the time off&away, nor even so little as the ability to have a guilt-free fantasy of having the option to quit. So unless you can use your umbrella to fly around city rooftops, give yourself some time to breath.

[ May 05, 2005, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 

quote:

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And they need a structured environment in which to burn off their energy.

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That sounds a lot more like a sports team and a lot less like school, from what I know of it.

I think there is a wide range of options between "a day off" and "put kids in school". I'm not sure how my own mother did it. However I think she had the advantage in that she was the oldest of seven and was able to keep all 6 of her brothers and sisters in line. After that, only having 3 kids was easy.

As far as homeschooling goes, when everything was falling apart, Mom considered it to be a "school attendance day" if we got math and english done. After that poing if she was going crazy she'd take us to the park to run around and let off steam for a while.

AJ
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
I guess that's what I was saying about the alternatives. Anger and unwillingness to impose on others can be symptoms of anxiety disorder, though I know they probably don't seem like they could be related. Anxiety disorder comes out as OCD, social phobia, and OCD [sic] I would fix that but it's pretty dang funny if you ask me.
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Expending mental energy counts considerably toward the total, OJ. And you're right, there are other options.
However, I don't know whether the romanylass family can afford them. From her writings, I suspect they don't have money burning holes through their pockets.

One option romanylass does have is to put the two older ones into school:
1) They'll learn that there are far greater restrictions in the real world on what they can do than at home.
2) Once that is learned, romanylass still has the option of returning them to homeschooling upon the end of the semester.
3) Between those two points, she has given herself some time to do things without the constant "having to deal with one kid or the other or the other".
4) Should she -- and her husband and kids: all of them having relevant&valuable opinions on the matter -- decide to return to homeschooling, the older kids should be enough older&wiser to control their own behaviour a bit more.

[ May 05, 2005, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
How old are the kids?

And Romany - you've had one very, very long bout of stress and depression.

Translation? Anyone not up for Sainthood would be on the ragged edge. And, I suspect, quite a few Saints to boot.

I have to give advice since I don't have to juggle my own kids, but is there a park nearby? Can Brian take them out and let them run themselves silly while you unwind at the house?

Maybe go out with friends while Brian takes them on an excursion?

It sounds like a sanity-intervention is necessary.

And there is a distinct line between yelling and hollering. Kids need to be hollered at. Yelling is another matter entirely.

So far, it sounds like you haven't crossed that line.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
Romanylass, I yell too. I think I yell everyday. Sometimes I do it to get their attention when they are all already yelling, sometimes I do it to scold them when I feel the occasion warrents strong scolding. But to be honest with myself, I think I do it more often than those "warrents strong scolding" moments. And even in those moments, is yelling the right way to handle it? I just don't know.

Basically, I often yell because I have run out of patience. I think all you and I can do is to just consciously try to yell *less* (rather than not at all) and not beat ourselves up for not being perfect.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
Every time i read "put them in school," I cringe. Then it occurs to me, not everyone lives in our school district, across the street from the worst elementary school in a city with a low educational rating in a state that ranks in the four lowest for quality of schools.

However if Romany IS really against schooling options there MUST be affordable options for her.

I find our homeschooling group to be invaluble. Is there an organized group of homeschoolers that you have support from? How old are the kids (sorry I don't know). Are there activities you can enroll them in? Scouts? 4-H? Can you share responsibilities with other homeschooling parents? We have a group going for some of out 4-6 yr olds that does reading and math games. we have a Geography Club that is multi-aged, and a "field trip" club, numerous play groups, An independant readers book club, a younger elementary literature-poetry-and-book club, and older kids literature-poetry-and-book club, In a nearby town is a science club, and a math club.

Most of these activities count as attendance, but our state is pretty lenient. I can pick a topic and do many educational games and other activities from nature journals to surveying and have it count as attendance. I don't know the rules in your state.

Anyway, if you want to talk more, and correspond more about homeschooling, I'd be happy to have a homschool pen pal!

-Mimi
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
Papa...the water! I keep forgetting that! I'll get to lunch and realise I have not had any since breakfast.

My kids are 8, 5, and 2 1/2. I don't see myself putting them in school. Especially not in May. At this point in the year it would make more sense to just call school done for the year. Although the structure of lessons seems to help most days. I am not pleased with our district and would consider public school a last resort.

Mimsie, there is 4-H ( which we go to) and track ( which I would like to get to, but falls at a time when I work) Not too many readers clubs or the like, and most at Matthew's reading level won't admit him because he's too young. I'd love you to e-mail me cymoril3 at yahoo

OK, I guess I will bite the bullet and ask for some help next week. jebus, splitting them up is an excellent idea.

(Y'know, Brian says no one could meet my parenting standards. So does my best friend. So does my therapist. I wonder if there's anything to it?)

Thanks for the ideas and support everyone. I did just figure out why I have been extra edgy. And Brian just came home with TWO Ben & Jerry's. I think the day is getting better.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
Okie Dokie.

My e-mail is mimsies@yahoo.com

Our reading clubs around here usually admit much younger than typical children if they have the right reading level. I don't have to worry about it. Min is just a little accelerated, enough that it might be a problem in school, but not enough that he stands out at homeschool things. He knows the same things that most 5 yr olds know, he just knows them deeper, if that makes sense. I'm going to e-mail you right now!

-mimi
 

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Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
 
I concur totally. You need a break. And hey, most of the moms I know who think they're terrible turn out some of the best kids. Hang in there, dear.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Also putting kids in school for a semester and then pulling them out can cause legal complications, that are best avoided. You can get called in for truancy and child abuse, and if you are in a nasty school district they will, because *they* lose money if your child isn't attending. It's probably best to make the decision on a yearly basis, and stay with one thing consistently for a year.

I never really got summers off though, mom would make us do at least math through most of the summer though not as extreme with the rest of the curriculum.

AJ
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Romanylass,
There is s much on yur plate right now. I agree with Christy. Brian or no Brian, take the day and do something for yourself.
Maybe we can all pitch in and buy you a day at a day spa.
Liz
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
romany...

I hope that you and Brian can sit and have a calm and complete talk about these issues. Perhaps if you tell him that you just want him to listen for awhile before responding, he won't just offer "quick fixes" (like putting the kids in school) or an automatic veto of simple things like scheduling someone to babysit.

This parenting stuff is supposed to be a partnership and he does need to listen to you and then respond to what you are saying. Ideally he should ask a few questions before responding. Just to be sure he understands first.

And maybe his best response would be to just listen and hold you sometimes too.

For your part, maybe knowing your limits is also something worth cultivating. I don't know. I'm not IN your situation, so this isn't anything like an actual observation. But it might be that you need more than just a night off. Maybe you need help? Maybe homeschooling isn't the best option for your family. Again...I don't know. But it seems to me like some frank discussing of options is in order if these feelings are recurring and you are feeling overwhelmed most of the time.

It isn't like you haven't had sufficient stressors in your life. Perhaps you need to try something different or rearrange priorities a bit in order to feel like you are doing the best job of parenting that you can.

<insert a BIG question mark here. I am NOT in any position to judge any of the above, so please don't take this as advice. More like a few questions that an outside observer might ask>
 

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Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
 
Romany, I feel your pain. I'm a yeller too, though I'm trying very, very hard not to be.

The thing is, whether they are in public school or not is NOT the problem. Believe me when I say, I was actually more stressed out, and yelled more, when Dan and Jen were in school.

I think it's not really anger that drives me to yell, it's frustration. I'm not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination...but sometimes I catch myself expecting the children to be better than me. That's tough for me to face: that I don't always lead by doing, but by yelling. I really don't like that about myself.

And ya know, even when we've had a rough day and only studied for an hour or so, I still know that they're learning more, and more about real life, than they ever did in a full day of public school.

I don't want to put them back in school full time, but sometimes a break would be nice. After all, teachers have weekends off. When do we?

p.s. I got called "The Best Momma Ever" this evening, because, even though I'm very short tempered when I'm in pain and yelled a bunch tonight, I tucked my children in bed, read them a story, and told them I love them. And then I hobbled to the door to come post this...that's what moms do. We love our children, and we remember that tomorrow is a brand new day. We can start over every morning, every hour, or every minute if that's what we need to do, because our children need us. At the end of the day, if your children know they're loved, the rest can be fixed.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

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Romany, I feel your pain. I'm a yeller too, though I'm trying very, very hard not to be.

---

Ditto! I know I yelled too much tonight -- my throat hurts. And the sad part is I distinctly remember a bunch of times where I carefully didn't yell, but can't remember much about what I did yell about. *sigh*

If the kids were in school, you'd just get concentrated frustration each evening and morning. I don't think it would help, and it quite likely could make things worse.

I really hope you do get someone to take your kids for a day, and get that break.

Afterwards, can they take mine?
 

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Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
 
My sister is a truck driver. She gets 4 days off every 2 or three weeks...maybe we could set her up as our official Hatrack travelling mom-break-giver...or something.
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 

quote:

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I got called "The Best Momma Ever" this evening, because, even though I'm very short tempered when I'm in pain and yelled a bunch tonight, I tucked my children in bed, read them a story, and told them I love them.

---

Boon, this brought tears to my eyes.

I'm sure, romany, that your kids love you as much as you love them, and appreciate what a good mom you are. Speaking as a daughter, but not a mother, I love my parents dearly (and yes, I've done my fair share of complaining about them), and I would be worried if they didn't yell at me when I do something wrong. I think my parents are wonderful, and I know they love me. I'm sure your children know you love them too. Be sure to keep telling them, and then all the yelling in the world doesn't matter anymore.
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
Yes, water! I'm terrible about that as well, although I have tried to bring a cup along with me now so that I sip from it throughout the day.

Mmm, Ben and Jerry's. Ice cream and chocolate make a rough day so much better.

((romany))
 

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Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
 
romany- I've thought about this thread a lot, and didn't know what to say, or exactly how to say it.

Your post could have been written by me, three or four years ago. Toddlers and preschoolers just don't get it yet. They don't understand that they are driving you crazy. They aren't old enough to be appreciative of all you do. I know some of yours are older, but it still may be a while before they realize how important you are to them. It's an unbelievably thankless job, sometimes.

Everyone else in the thread is right -- you need some grown-up time. Not need it like you 'need' a manicure, but need it like you need water, or a good night's sleep, once in a while. It gives you perspective, and relieves the stress. When my life was so much like what you describe yours as, I couldn't see that it would ever, ever be easier. But it is.

You are not a bad mom, you just really, really, REALLY need a break.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 

quote:

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The thing is, whether they are in public school or not is NOT the problem. Believe me when I say, I was actually more stressed out, and yelled more, when Dan and Jen were in school.

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quote:

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I know we're entitled to the services, but I worry we'll be pressured to put her in school.

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It is so irritating the way some school districts and schools and administrators behave... Are you a member of the HSLDA? Everyone I've talked to about home schooling says it's a good idea, because if they start harassing you or implying that you're not going to get services unless she's in school, you can contact the HSLDA, and let their lawyers talk to their lawyers, which almost always clears things right up...
 

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Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 

quote:

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Know what's nuts? IN March a friend gave me a card to a spa with the offer to sit when I go, amd I haven't taken her up on it.

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See!! Here is your perfect opportunity to take some you-time. Forget feeling quilty about taking the day - imagine how much more effective you can be once you've had a chance to relax a little!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
HSLDA does have a distinctly *Christian* agenda. I think some of their stances are laugahble and inconsistent with their general logic for homeschooling because homeschooling is extremely libertarian if you look at the basic premises. However that said, even if you *aren't* Christian you should join if you are homeschooling, because of their guaranteed legal representation should you ever need it. And they are fantastic at arguing homeschooling cases. It's paying for insurance that you hope you never need.

They also sponsor a nation wide affordable testing program of the Stanford Achievement Tests for homeschoolers, that I strongly support. You need to make your kids get used to filling in bubbles on test forms when they are young, so that it isn't as stressful when it's a test that means something like on the SATs. You've already done tons of dress rehersals.

AJ

[ May 06, 2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
I agree, AJ, they definitely have an agenda-- but as that agenda includes protecting the rights of homeschoolers, for whatever reason, I think it's definitely a good idea to join.
 

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Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
 
where do you live? i might babysit for you.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
I am leary of the HSLDA, mostly because I was on their e-mail list for a while, and they were sending anti-gay rights stuff. Definately not to do with homeschooling. And we can get the Stanford tests through our state HSA, which we belong to.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
See I'm of the opinion that subversion is the way to go to effect change from within. If more people joined without a Christian agenda, and made it clear that it was deterring still other people from joining, I suspect they'd become a little less virulent on a few topics. Join, let them get to know you and realize you aren't of the devil before you tell them what you really think.

I actually have met the guy who is the head of HSLDA, and he's not that abraisive in person. (My parents have friends who are were very good friends with the Ferris' for a while.) My parent's friends (well I played with their son when we were 5 but they really aren't my friends specifically) ended up relocating to a different part of the country but while they were in Virginia they were concerned with the direction the "start-up" homeschooler church in the area was going(it was founded by many of the HDLSA people) They felt it was becoming rather introverted, and unfortunately I believe it crept over into HSLDA.

The problem is that these people get so introverted that they end up surrounding themselves with only people that agree with them because being a homeschooler makes them wierd and they get tired of defending themselves. Being with people that agree with them is a such relief that they never come back out of their tortoise shells and interact with the rest of the world. I saw it happen to my mother over time...

AJ

[ May 06, 2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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