After finishing the Giant series, I recently re-read Xenocide. One of the characteristics I admired most in Uncle Orson's treatment of the Battle School kids was how accurately he was able to write so many different cultures, and I realized it was even more evident in Xenocide. I understand, of course, how he can write Brazilians so well, and why they're so prominent in his writing. But how did he write the Chinese? I've had several good friends from China (and a couple from Taiwan - which is different!), and Qing Jao and Han Tzu were still totally believable.
So - what's the secret? Have those of you who have written from a foreign point of view done research for that? Do you work only from people you know? Or does human nature overcome a certain degree of cultural inaccuracy?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Annie, I wouldn't touch it myself. I remember reading "She's Come Undone," by Wally Lamb, and being super impressed by his writing from a woman's pov.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Bah, writing from a women's point of view is easy.
"Oh my God, silly things are funny!"
"I'm so insecure about my body!"
"I looooooooove chocolate! Mmmmmm comfort food!"
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Oh my goodness jebus! That's exactly what I'm like!
...
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
You're right! You just pegged Jane Austen!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
You are so right, Jebus, you are funny!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
"Foreigners"? *raises eyebrow at Annie*
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Oh and I get a bad reputation for sarcasme, sheesh!
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Is the word "foreigner" passe?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Annie, do you mean "people from other countries" or "Multicultural people"?
I can imagine writing "people from other countries" would be something you wouldn't want to go to close to without first-hand experience, unless you're talking Australia, England etc. You could even go with more "western-style" cultures, such as Europe.
Multicultural people aren't that much different from those around them. In an mixed environment, unless a discussion of politics, religion or somesuch comes up, everyone's closely the same. Of course, it depends strongly on where they grew up, when they were born, etc.
I would steer totally clear of a totally 'alien' (to you) setting. I.e. don't set your story in the house belonging to a family who's culture you aren't familiar with.
My advice would be to talk to people of the culture you wish to represent, if you can find someone. .
EDIT: Jebus, I know. I just couldn't resist. I also don't like that women even have that stereotypical appearance.
[ April 02, 2005, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
"Foreigner" is definitely un-PC. While I'm not a big fan of PC in general, this is one case where I think the language usage doesn't promote brother-and-sister-hood.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I mean anyone from a culture different than yours. This can be England - this can be a Latino neighborhood in an American city - this can be an Amish colony - this can be Zimbabwe.
Is first-hand experience the only way to write effectively, or is it something that can be researched?
I ask because my current writing project involves characters that are native americans. I'm very familiar with this culture, living among and knowing a lot of the tribe that I'm writing about, but I'm always going to be an outsider no matter how close I get.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I had no idea "foreigner" was un-PC. I guess I should say "People of cultures other than your native culture." But that would make the title too long.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
It definitely is not the only way to write characters, Annie, just more challenging to do well.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Foreigner is un-PC? What are you, insane?
It comes from the word foreign. It's completely and accurately descriptive.
What word would you choose instead, ketchupqueen? No matter what it has to be a word that makes clear they are from somewhere else and thus in someway different.
People are nuts.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I would prefer "people of different cultures" or "people of different backgrounds". "Foreigner" just confirms the rest of the world in the opinion that Americans are completely self-centered.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
And this isn't my idea, you know. It's just how I was raised. I'm also uncomfortable with "Oriental".
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
It's not your idea but you agree with it so you better be able to defend it.
You do understand in your attempt to seem like you don't want America to sound self-centered that Americans aren't the only people that use the word foreigners?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yes. I know that. But I hear it from Americans more than from anyone else. And like I said, it's the way I was raised. I ignore you, if what I say bothers you, why don't you just ignore me?
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
"Foreigner" means nothing more or less than "someone who is not from here". I refuse to accept that as a slur. People who treat the word as such ("Lousy foreigners, taking jobs away from honest folks!") are damning themselves far more than they are damning any actual foreigner.
The only time I can see it being actually offensive is in the case of immigrants. Someone who was a foreigner when they first arrived but is integrating into their new society and becoming localized. It's hard to say at what exact point they cease being a "foreigner" and become a "local", but to continue to call them or their children or their children's children "foreigners" after they've integrated is offensive, because it implies that you'll never accept them as being part of your society.
But in that case, it's not the word itself that's offensive. It's the willful misuse of the word. It's using it toward someone that it doesn't apply to. Again, that says more about the person using it than the person it's used on--much less the word itself. The word itself is not a slur.
[ April 02, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Verily the Younger ]
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Very well, I will ignore you.
Feel free to continue being stupid without mean Jebus getting on your case.
[ April 02, 2005, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: jebus202 ]
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
Everything Jebus says is funny when said in an Irish accent.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Hah. Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
I was a foreigner in New Zealand. It was THEIR country, and I was the new guy. Even if I moved there as an immigrant, I would be a foreigner to the degree that the culture I expected was not the culture they have.
I think all that was meant by "foreigners" in the context above was "cultures that were not my own" - whenever I write about a culture that isn't American or Mormon (or, more likely, both) I'm writing in a culture and about characters who are foreign TO ME.
In the PC effort to eliminate all words that label people, we forget that without words to label people we would only be able to say "people" - after all, we wouldn't want to single a unit of people out by calling it a "person," which contains the sexist word "son" anyway - and giving people names is so ... individuist, don't you think?
Back to the original topic: I'm glad when my characters of other cultures feel believable. Of course, I never get it "right," but when I set a story on another world three thousand years in the future, I can always say, "The culture has changed between now and then."
The scariest book I've written, on those lines, is "Magic Street," because it's set in a culture that exists right now in the real world, and I'm not a member of that culture. So I'm wide open to the charge that I didn't know what I was talking about (when I get it wrong) and the equally PC charge that I'm "stealing someone else's culture" (when I get it right).
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
They're right, you should definitely give it back.
Hobbes Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
So what kind of research did you do for Magic Street, Uncle O?
Posted by Khavanon (Member # 929) on :
You know, I haven't read Xenocide since I graduated from Chinese. I'll have to get back on that.
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