The YDA at my school asked me to help them make a t-shirt.
The idea I'm tinkering around with is a black t-shirt with big, white letters on the front that simply say, "WHY?"
And on the back, a elliptical arrangement of liberal historical figures around the text: "Because Liberal is not an epithet."
The figures I'm including are: Martin Luther King, Jr; Gandhi; Einstein; Jesus Christ; Che; Benjamin Franklin. The idea is to put on people who would be recognizable by portrait alone, because...
...due to cost, this t-shirt would have to be single color: white print on a black shirt. So I have to find photos / drawings of these individuals and render them into a single-color portrait (not a profile).
Here is the first draft of the back of the shirt. Whatja think?
That is the small version at 92 kb. The big one is 9.2 mb...
Posted by IdemosthenesI (Member # 862) on :
Just curious, what is the reasoning behind having Einstein on there? He really doesn't seem to fit a liberal ideology. You might think about replacing him with JFK or FDR.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
The Jesus one is the only one where I would not immediately know who it was supposed to be, I think you can find/do a better image.
I like the concept.
Posted by IdemosthenesI (Member # 862) on :
In fact, I would go with more democrats. People who are clearly on our side. If you claim Jesus was a democrat, you might lose effectiveness, because nobody will take you seriously. Ideas for easily recognizable democrats:
FDR JFK Jimmy Carter Andrew Jackson (though I have a difficult time associating myself with a genocide fella)
I just think that, since the organization is a young Democrats organization, you should focus on American figures.
Edit: Yeah, your Jesus looks a little like John Winthrop. Don't know that he's really where you want to go with this
[ February 14, 2005, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: IdemosthenesI ]
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:Edit: Yeah, your Jesus looks a little like John Winthrop.
Wow, that's creepy. That's exactly who I was just about to say it looked like. Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Ok, it may be for the YDA, but I tend to take more of a independent but slightly liberal stance myself.
So, I thought that since most Democrats are fairly liberal and that since *a-hem* some *cough* conservatives tend to use it as a curse word, I would remind them of their roots.
Also, I was trying in my own subtle way to discourage bipartisanship by appealling to liberals of all sides. Note that there is no actual mention of the YDA on there.
I'll look into the Jesus and einstein. I don't know how many of my generation would recognize FDR or JFK...let alone the ones I had originally considered, like Socrates and Paine.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
quote:
quote: Edit: Yeah, your Jesus looks a little like John Winthrop.
Wow, that's creepy. That's exactly who I was just about to say it looked like. [Eek!]
I just looked him up, and holy moly he does...
I'm looking for a better picture, but not one on the cross. It needs to be fairly easy to knock out the background and his details need to be simple and sharp. What about a shot from [u]The Passion[/u]?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I'm gonna disagree, there. The tag line is because LIBERAL isn't an epithet, not because Democrat isn't. I think including non-American figures helps show the range of ideas that could be considered liberal.
And hey, it's a college organization, I'm sure they want to be controversial. Go with Jesus. JFK I bet you could get a recognizable pic of to replace Einstein, but not FDR... and for pete's sake, Carter? Ghandi's better.
Edit: Well this certainly seems redundant now.
[ February 14, 2005, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by xtownaga (Member # 7187) on :
I'd say find a better picture of Jesus and put up a link where I can buy one
In all seriousness, if you use something like cafepress to make them and I could order it w/out having to deal with a check or anything I'd probably get one
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I think Ralph Nader is a great liberal icon. But I understand not all Democrats like him as much as I do. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Actually, I wouldn't put real historical figures on there. I can think of reasons why some people might have problems with any of the people you selected that would make them think less of either liberals or Democrats for associating themselves with those people.
Yes, I think a symbol might be better. Might I suggest Lady Liberty from the Statue of Liberty? Perhaps just a picture of her hand holding the torch, or maybe a picture her upper torso and the torch, though I think just the hand with the torch is much more visually direct and satisfying. On the back of your shirt, you can have that famous poem:
quote: THE NEW COLOSSUS.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame, "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
What do you think? Too pompous?
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
And I would argue that Jesus was a liberal.
Jesus was for clear separation of Church and State.
Jesus was not for capital punishment, he was a victim of it.
Jesus was for the redistribution of wealth.
Jesus was against big business getting in bed with religion.
Jesus fed the poor.
Jesus was not tough on crime, but promoted the rehabilitation of sinners and crimminals.
Jesus was arrested for protesting against the government and against the organized "old time" religion of his day.
I don't know, he seems pretty liberal to me.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It's a college group, go with Clinton, though who he'd replace, i'm not sure. I thought the jesus was Frisco but that doesn't make much sense outside of hatrack.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Well, the poem isn't formatting correctly. Frack. Dunno what to do about it.
Posted by Fusiachi (Member # 7376) on :
quote:I think Ralph Nader is a great liberal icon.
Ralph Nader and Che Guevara on the same shirt? Somehow I'm not seeing it.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
quote: I was trying in my own subtle way to discourage bipartisanship...
I do hope that that was a typo or a misinterpretation on my part or it embodies everything I'm increasingly despising about liberal and Democratic attitudes.
quote: It's a college group
*cough* "Young"=high school, "College"= college.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
The Democrat club here on my college campus is called the "Young Democrats." However, if I recall correctly, HRE attends a high school. So I guess it can apply to either.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't suppose you'd be selling those on the net anywhere? Cause I would buy one.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
All I know is that my high school's Dems called themselves "young" while my college's Dems call themselves "college" and since I knew HRE was a high schooler I falsely assumed that was the rule.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Because Liberal is not an epithet. I really like it. Liberalism should be embraced by those who stand by it, not thrown away and ashamed of like some ugly step child you keep in the closet. Good for you.
Posted by IdemosthenesI (Member # 862) on :
Oh heck, don't take my comments to mean that I dispute Jesus's liberalism! After all, it was the in early Christian church that Ananias and Saphira were literally struck down by God for withholding their property from the community. Nevertheless, you would have to do a lot of explaining to your modern American why Jesus wouldn't vote Republican.
As for other recognizable historic liberals... Dang it! I have so many great ones, but nobody would recognize Adlai Stevenson or William Jennings Brant (pre-Scopes).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Jesus and Einstein were perfectly acceptable liberals. And I think you're intrinsically limited by the number of recognizable faces you can fit on a T-shirt.
[ February 15, 2005, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I still think Jesus is Frisco, but that's because I have his bobblehead doll at home.
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
i'd buy one...but if you are creating it for the Young Democrats, you may want to drop their name on there SOMEWHERE.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I think someone should make a "Jesus was a Liberal" t-shirt.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Someone already has.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
You should probably remove Ernesto Guevara from your t-shirt, unless you want to associate liberals with his message and legacy of Hate.
"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."
Is this what you're trying to say with your t-shirt?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I guess it depends. Are they comfortable with "I bring not peace but the sword?"
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Is there a reason why Democrats can't be conservatives or moderates? Because that's exactly the kind of reasoning that drove me and other like minded Republicans away from the Democratic Party. Just a thought...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
They could be. I would most likely leave the party were that to occur, however, depending on your definition of "conservative." I honestly don't think my values and goals are particularly compatible with that stereotype.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
"He had long hair and didn't have a job, what more do you want?" -- Arnold Judas Rimmer on Jesus as a Hippy.
btw Tom, Unlike Sr Guevara, Jesus never tortured and executed people. Especially without a trial. (At least, according the highly biased accounts of Jesus' life written by his followers.)
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Yeah, I was pretty nonplussed about Guevera being included. He was a big reason why I thought the shirt should go with something lke the Statue of Liberty, though, as I said, almost all of those figures have dirt in their lives that just begs to be brought out to smear.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Hmmm...
I think I will be taking a different picture of Jesus...perhaps this one from The Passion?
In addition, I do think I will remove Che and replace him with the Statue of Liberty, regardless of what I think of his beliefs.
I didn't blazon the Young Democrats Club on the T-shirt, because of the current political situation at my High School.
The Republican club created a t-shirt with a county map of the US, with counties voting for Bush in red and Kerry in blue. They then wrote on it: "Feeling a little Blue? Well, sucks to be you!"
I wanted this shirt to be a direct antithesis to that one: low-key, yet mature and powerful without appearing to be a billboard.
That said, I might simply put "YDA" under the sentence.
Well, time to get to work! Thanks for all the input...I should have a new version tonight.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Tom, I'm referring to individuals, but why does a party have to be the party of liberals or the party of conservatives? I don't see the base of the Republican party trying to discourage the Log Cabin Republicans from being active in the GOP.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
NFL, the Log Cabin Republicans are conservatives.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
I don't know what they call themselves (liberal or conservative), but they're even more left of the center of the party than I am.
Edit to add: Nancy Argenziano, a local Republican who is a state senator that is very pro-environment, pro-choice, anti-privitization, and so left leaning on many other issues that she was endorsed by local liberal student groups over her Democratic challenger, is not only still a Republican, but the FSU College Republicans wanted her to drive their float in the homecoming parade.
[ February 15, 2005, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: newfoundlogic ]
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
On trial, that picture of Jesus just isn't cutting it...does anyone have a different one that you think I could use?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
First, I wasn't aware that it was being left of the center of the Republicans that made one a liberal.
Second, the Log Cabin Republicans are (generally, its not one of their core issues, but when they talk to the press this is one of the reasons they talk about about being Republicans) strong fiscal conservatives, to the right of, oh, say, GWB. While their stances on social issues are more up in the air (they largely avoid taking positions other than those in favor of gay rights), its quite hard to call them even to the left of the center of republicans on the whole, as they're not in the same place on all issues.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Well since you don't consider Bush to be a fiscal conservative that doesn't tell me much does it? Or have you changed your stance since his new budget?
They're really far left on gay rights and considering the importance of that issue, or at least "moral values" in the last elecion I would consider that something that without consideration of much else would get you called a liberal.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
His new budget hasn't shown a particular penchant for fiscal conservatism, its shown a penchant for shifting the blame. A bigger budget will almost certainly be passed, with no great objection.
When he's willing to veto a budget that's big, or at least expends enough political capital to make sure the passed budget is small, then he gets to call himself more fiscally conservative.
[ February 15, 2005, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Dang fugu, you make me want to join LCR...
Do you have to be gay to get in?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Nope.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Right...
Anyways, here is the second draft of the back of the shirt:
I decided to keep Che because the Statue of Liberty just didn't fit, and because he is a very recognizable face in my generation.
[ February 15, 2005, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: HRE ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Ya know, I glanced through your list of names, looked at your picture, and didn't recognize that longhaired dude -- except vaguely like "Custer portrayed by ErrolFlynn?" or "maybe some CivilWar-era philosopher". Scanned at the list again, knowing who the other portraits were of, and "Jesus Christ" stil didn't catch my eye. I doubt that any two-tone low-resolution graphic would do anything other than have folks scratching their heads.
And I doubt that any American who isn't a ColdWar wonk remembers Che for anything other than a poster popular amongst late60s/early70s poseurs and latter-day "radical"s. Might as well use Tania as an example of enlightment.
Einstein definitely belongs. But then so does (Republican) Teddy Roosevelt, and (Democrat) Eleanor Roosevelt.
* Admittedly, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a TeddyRoosevelt-class liberal, but he's really much better known as the WWII leader. Eleanor was always the better known public (and the more popular non-political) face of liberalism within the FDRAdministration. She is still conceded to be the most powerful of all FirstLadies in swaying popular opinion; such that even after FDR's death, her influence and visage remained well known to most Americans and much of the rest of the world. Besides, there are no women amongst the examples. And I can't think of any other progressive/liberal woman who might be even close to being as recognizeable in two-tone caricature.
[ February 16, 2005, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
The above was sitting on my machine well before your second picture was posted, then posted before I'd seen the new one. The portrait of Jesus is a little more recognizeable. Still don't think it works well. If you're gonna insist on keeping Che in there, ya really should change the slogan to "Kick Me".
newfoundlogic, you'd find anybody more politically progressive than George the Third to be far too liberal.
[ February 16, 2005, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Do you know my stances on anything other than the war in Iraq or do you just assume my social positions based on the fact that I voted for Bush?
Its one thing to create a "liberal" shirt that includes people who never associated with an American political party for Democrats who aren't necessarily liberal, but you want to include those who were Republicans as well? Why not throw in Abraham Lincoln just to alienate more people? Get a clue, just because you have a hard time disliking a Republican doesn't mean you get to call him/her a liberal. Remember TR wasn't just about business reform, he was also your prototypical "neo-con" (a term I despise), he intervened in South and Central America, he fought in the intervenionist Spanish-American War, and he was even what you would call conservative when it comes to criminal justice. I'm sure he was conservative on plenty of other issues as well, but I don't have a TR political position fact sheet on hand.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Lincoln would fit, considering his times. But again he's mostly known as a war leader, for the CivilWar. The slogan uses "liberal", not 'Democrat' or 'Republican'.
And you've expressed your opinions on many issues. Enough for me to form my own. However, I also believe that people are far far more than their political opinions: especially opinions which can only be partially expressed in forums such as this. And I firmly believe that persons with political opinions in opposition to my own have their own talents, can have good hearts.
[ February 16, 2005, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
NFL, perhaps what "liberal" means to you is quite unlike what it means to an actual liberal.
Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln, for example, practically defined the words "liberal" and "progressive" for those movements.
That those movements eventually got transferred to another party doesn't mean that they didn't belong; it means that their party affiliation wasn't as important as their ideology. Neither Lincoln nor Roosevelt would be Republicans today.
Posted by ghost of dkw (Member # 4046) on :
Jesus images Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I would replace Che with JFK. He's definitely recognizable, I think...maybe I'm wrong, but I think young people are a little more in the loop than you're giving them credit for. He's *certainly* mroe recognizable than Guevara.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
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