Ok, so I met with a guy last night at a restraunt for an interview. Its for a job called New Alternative Options which sounds like that of social work- shadowing a kid at school, getting him motivated, etc. Interview went well, despite something in the back of my head saying something was wrong. I asked him about benefits and thought he said that medical was right off and other benefits I would get after he see's how I do performance wise, in June. So I go ahead and say that yeah, that would work, so he sets it up to meet with him tomorrow at 10:30 am at Dunkin Donuts, and then go over and get things set up, and meet the kid.
I called today and turns out I misheard, and that I would be getting medical in June after he see's how I preform and such.
Thats four months away, and it would be based on nothing you can actually look at in paper, just what the guy says. Something about that seems off. So I talk to Jamie and says "just make sure you get something solid in writing." Seems good. So I called and left him a message saying I would like to get stuff in writing tomorrow.
The thing thats really getting to me is that this seems like a very unprofessional company, if they don't already have stuff to put in writing, and sign stuff, etc, especially if they are a company that does social work.
My main concerns are:
1) That 4 months is too long to wait for medical. 2) That this guy isn't even promising that I'm going to get medical benefits. 3) That this is just a fraud and that I'm being duped somehow (thats an extreme one, though)
I really hate going there and saying "No, I've decided against this, if you can't promise this or have anything to sign. Sorry I misunderstood."
Any advice?
[ February 10, 2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Not paranoid. Sounds pretty shady. And I wouldn't be so sure you misunderstood, he may have been intentionally misleading. Depending on how much you need a job, you might try telling him you're not interested if the health benefits don't start 'til June. One month is normal, four months and no promises is weird.
But, from what I've heard, companies running this sort of program frequently are a bit odd, so it might be normal for the industry. Still, at LEAST get the particulars in writing, and the health insurance part should NOT be dependant on job performance.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yeah, this whole thing has a 10 on my sketch-o-meter. Job standard in the social work industry here is 90 days at the direct care level. If you're lucky, you just have a month's wait.
Four months is...odd.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Yeah. What I'm thinking is that I'll tell him before I commit, I really need to see the health plan written out. He said that in May they will be switching to an HMO, but that this is what he normally does with employees, waiting a while to see how they do, then based on that preformance.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Can you talk to one of their current employees and see if the deal they are offering you is "standard" in their company?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Based on that performance you keep the job or get benefits? 'Cause if it's the latter, you don't want this job.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Dunno. Like I said, I'm going to ask to see things in writing before I talk to the kid I'll be working with. I'll tell him that I should go over that stuff in case there is something I disagree with, then at least that kid won't like he was scaring me away.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Get the benefits, KQ.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I'm going to need you to repeat that again. Whether or not you get benefits is based on your performance evaluation?
Is that even legal?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
4 months isn't neccesarily too long to wait for health benefits, but I feel like he's skirting the issue somewhat. You supposedly "misheard" that medical started immediately instead of 4 months. I know the part of the interview I pay closest attention to is salary and benefits. Most people probably do. There is a good chance that you didn't mishear, he either outright lied at the interview or at least led you to believe medical starts immediately.
He says he's changing health plans in May. Could be. Or he could drop medical altogether, or some 3rd option. Who knows? Either way it's a convenient excuse to stall you on seeing something (anything) in writing.
And lastly, if he deems your performance not up to snuff, no benefits? edit:dkw has a point--is that even legal?
Any one of these 3 things would bother me some, together it doesn't feel right.
Is the job tied to the school year? Maybe he really wants someone to finish out the school year? If I were you, I would take the job if I had to, otherwise keep looking. It's tough to decide whether to trust people. I guess just go with your gut instinct at your next meeting, maybe be prepared to decide either way depending on what he says. Best of luck!
[ February 10, 2005, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I am sorry, that does not make sense at all. I have never heard of a legitimate employer basing your ability to get benefits on your job performance. Either you get benefits or you don't. If you do, everything should be in writing for you to see exactly what you will be getting.
Job performance determines whether or not you keep the job, not whether or not you get benefits.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Ok, I'm meeting the guy tomorrow at 10:30. I'm going to apologize and tell him no thank you.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Good. 'Cause that's not right.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
There are several aspects of this story indicative of the possibility that you didn't mishear; and yet he didn't lie, but rather misspoke and misremembered what was said. Keep in mind that the below is a possibility leaning in favor of the interviewer. 1) There is going to be a changeover of health providers. Which may mean that what he said was rote repetition -- of the standard policy before a decision to make the changeover of health provider -- rather than concious speech mindful of the change.
2) Adding a new employee to the old policy may be prohibitively expensive with enrollment into a new policy coming up so soon.
3) While large companies (their affiliates, franchises, etc) can offer nearly immediate insurance coverage due to their economic clout, small businesses cannot. With small businesses applying for a new employee, insurance companies (which is what HMOs/etc are) require submission of a request for coverage one month prior to the covered period so they can do their homework associated with assigning risk and other paperwork; eg background checks, having their actuaries set the cost of the coverage, (possibly turning down coverage), etc. So when a small business says "We'll put you on our health plan immediately", what they usually mean is they'll start the paperwork, and you'll be covered a month later. Similarly, if they say they'll put you on their health plan after a probationary period, they'll often-enough mean that they'll submit the paperwork at that time, and actual coverage will begin a month after that.
In other words, there could be nothing intentionally shady going on: just lack of thought before misspeaking. And forethought: eg June is one month after they make their changeover, so they may be mistakenly thinking "We can't put in his application before the changeover, therefore he can't be covered before June." Changes can muddle the mind.
You are in contract negotiations. Make a counter-proposal: I'm afraid we've gotten off on the wrong foot. Either I misheard what you offered due to my enthusiasm, or you misspoke because you had other things on your mind. I am looking for permanent employment. And our differing rememberances about your health benefits has left me wondering whether you are seeking temporary help until school lets out.
I understand that you are changing your company's health plan. And that it would be a hassle and possibly some excess cost to get me onto your old one before the changeover. However, there is no reason preventing coverage as soon as your new health plan takes effect in May. Since it takes one month for approval of health coverage, I'll concede a probationary period until April. At which point, I'll expect my paperwork to be submitted to your new HMO in time for coverage immediately upon inception of your company's new health plan. Or to be given a written two-week notification of a lay-off.
Then put some teeth into it. eg If they fail to provide coverage in the fashion specified and fail to provide a written lay-off notification, the contract is breached and a penalty is paid. Since you would (possibly*) have no option other than to quit to enforce the contract -- therebye (possibly*) giving up any possiblity of collecting unemployment insurance -- make their forfeiture equal to what you have been paid under unemployment coverage had they faithfully executed their side of the bargain** and legal costs*** incurred to enforce the contract.
And get it in writing***, which should also contain the application date for and the start date of coverage under their new HMO.
If they agree, thank them, and make a strong point of saying that you just want the contract for your own peace of mind. If they won't agree to such a contract, thank them for their time and leave. Odds have then become that they are looking for temporary help.
* "Possibly" because I don't know what your particular state's labor laws are like. When complaining of an employer's breach of agreement to a state labor board before quitting, sometimes the boards will come down hard in favor of the employee. And if you quit because they won't force your employer to uphold his end of the bargain, sometimes they'll just rule that you quit and thus are ineligible for unemployment benefits.
** Just calculate the amount of money you'll make between your start date and that final date on which you might be let go, then look at the unemployment chart for benefits that would accrue for an employee who had made that much money within that period of time. You might want to add a clause stating that you will also receive two weeks pay if you are discharged immediately rather than given two weeks notification in that period between the month-before-coverage April date on which your application is supposed to have been put in and the May date on which you are supposed to receive coverage.
*** If you can't get help from the state labor board, the courts tend to strongly enforce written contracts. Plus having such a writtencontract guaranteeing legal fees makes it easy to attract a lawyer willing to take the case on contingency. And knowing that you'll have a lawyer at your side will make your (now former) employer very hesitant about breaching the contract in hopes that you'll blow it off, or in hopes of winning a contest in court. Heck, his lawyer will cost more than what it would take to pay you off.
[ February 11, 2005, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OK, the red flag for me is Dunkin Donuts. As Jamie knows, I am all for the large French vanilla with two creams, but as a business office?
The whole thing seems shady. I do not even understand the job. Tracking a high school student? Tracking him how? And it is a good point that high school ends in June, at the point when the health care supposedly kicks in.
Also, how many hours is it? Are you paid hourly or salary? If it is hourly, they can pull the restaurant trick of no benefits for under thirty(I think, 32 maybe) hours.
Honestly, I say listen to Mack's Trustometer and look for something else.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
It sounds shady to me too, but the big huge red flag is that there's no paperwork.
Insist on getting *everything* in writing. I was once "promised" a substantial raise once my trial period was up. It was a condition of employment, as far as I was concerned. I didn't get it in writing. Then the VP who hired me left and was replaced by a much nicer guy. When my trial period was up, I talked to him about the raise, and since it was not in writing, there was little he could do to get me what I'd been promised.
So get it all in writing. Good luck! Sounds like an interesting job.
Posted by Annie Mayhem (Member # 6203) on :
Is the guy *trying* to say that you'll have a probationary period, and at the end of it you'll either be retained and given benefits or let go?
(If he is, he didn't express himself very well).
You should ask for this in writing, too, and ask how you'll be evaluated.
-=AM=-
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I turned it down. There was too much telling me it was wrong.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I am really glad! Have you ever worked in restaurants? You can make some serious money, and not have to be totally locked into it while you look for something better/more permanent.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Trust your gut, T.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
During all this, I feel wicked guilty. I mean, I'm a full-time MSW student and have a good job doing research, but don't have benefits since it's a contract assistance job. Since I already have my bachelor's, I could quit school, suck it up and get a job in some sort of business. But that just seems like a horribly bad idea, considering where my aspirations are.
But the $500/mo for COBRA. Ugh.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
I refuse to let Jamie quit school right now, by the way.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Good for you, she needs to stay in school.
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
I know it is way too late to chime in, but I strongly believe you did the right thing. I really don't like that you've had two meetings scheduled with this guy off-site. Waiting four months for medical is odd--standard probation periods are usually 30-90 days, and in my experience is more geared toward disciplinary issues.
Good call.
Eve
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Criminy!
I'd temp before taking a job under those conditions. Unless it was my dream job or something.
I think you should go teach bowling somewhere, T.
Edit: seriously, you should see this guy spin a bowling ball. It's amazing!
[ February 12, 2005, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
lol, my mom was just saying how my school should have a bowling team! Want to commute over to Amherst and start one up?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Wait a minute. You're in Amherst, Dragon? I thought you were in Providence?
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
no, Amherst NH
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Myr is in Providence.
Hmmm. *points nathan to thread*
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
What?! Am I missing something?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
When are you not?
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
T_Smith to Mack: "When you're around." Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote: T_Smith Member Member # 3734
posted February 12, 2005 11:51 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What?! Am I missing something? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 8189 | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged |
mackillian Member Member # 586
posted February 13, 2005 12:12 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When are you not?
Yep....they are married, all right...
[ February 13, 2005, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
From the NH Dept. of Labor:
quote:Upon hiring an employee is it necessary to put the employee's rate of pay or any fringe benefits in writing?
Yes, employers must provide, in writing, an employee's rate of pay at the time of hire. An employer must also furnish all policies pertaining to any fringe benefits in writing. (RSA 275:49)
quote:If we have liability or health insurance, doesn't it take the place of Worker's Compensation?
No. Workers' Compensation is required by law under RSA 281-A whereas, liability and health insurance are voluntary coverages on your part.
As a former labor law paralegal and HR person, that situation triggered all my alarms. I think you dodged a bullet. I've never heard of a legitimate job interview being held in a restaurant or donut shop and they should have something in writing ready for you when they offer you the position.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
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