I've been starting to read American comics a lot more lately, (I've been a manga fan, though I was exposed to Marvel as a youth) and I became curious as to about how many people on Hatrack read them.
I just finished DC's miniseries "Identity Crisis" and I really liked it. Fan-popular opinion may not agree with me, but since I don't know much about DC Universe, I enjoyed it without noticing some of the specific nit-picks.
I also started reading recently a Marvel comic called Runaways. The art is really beautiful and the plot is, to me, original.
And I borrowed from a friend the last of Bone! I'm itching to finally finish it after so many years. Also, I've started to read Sandman! I'm all over the comic world lately.
So who else reads comics over here? Do you have any suggestions for me or any titles you don't think I'd like but particularly love yourself?
Let's talk about comics!!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It's hard for me to recommend comics to a brand new reader, often, because I find that many of the comics I enjoy rely on a knowledge of the genre. On the other hand, you've now mentioned three comics I really enjoyed -- Runaways,Bone, and Sandman -- so I can't help wondering if our tastes are at least slightly similar. (On the other hand, you liked Identity Crisis, so YMMV.)
Actually, I find your case intriguing, since comics publishers made the decision a little while ago to market the specific comics you mentioned to the mass-market, especially the huge female manga audience, in hopes of bringing the larger world of American comics to their attention. In general, comics fans dismissed these attempts as ridiculously unsuccessful -- and yet it looks like, with Runaways and Identity Crisis, you have decided that you want to read more American comics. So it WORKED in your case.
I'm half-tempted to write to Joe Quesada and tell him not to give up quite yet.
[ January 09, 2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Hahaha. It also helped that I had a friend who was pushing me to read more stuff. He introduced me to Sin City, A Superman for All Seasons, Ultimate Spiderman, et cetera.
But having seen Runaways in the Target and having already heard about it did a lot for me wanting to read more comics.
Although the Marvel Mangaverse stuff is complete and utter CRAP. At least the first story was... I read it and then had to put it down because it was making me so mad that they were confusing bad art with manga-style art. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Also, (It's my thread, I can doublepost.. right? ) I think part of the reason I did like Identity Crisis was because of the novelty. I hadn't ever read any DC comics straight off the rack, I'd just read compilations, and collecting it gave me an experience I don't get often.
Also, one could call me a hard-core comics fan, if one considers the fact that I've been collecting manga for four years or so, and have over 1000 dollars worth, I'm sure. And I have been interested in comics for many years, I just don't read many. Mostly I watched the 90's X-men and Spiderman cartoons, and later, Batman: The Animated Series. (LOVES IT)
But yes. Ummm... I also happened to surround myself with people who have a lot of comics.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Can we call doubleposts "Kage bunshin no jutsu"?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I've done a similar list here before, but here goes. (Note: this list is customized for people who don't have a long history of liking American comics.}
This list is limited to series that are currently ongoing. If you're interested in canceled comics, miniseries, or trade paperbacks worth reading, let me know. (Note, however, that some of these series have been running for some time, and so you should pick up the early trades before picking up later comics in the series.)
If you're into manga, I'd strongly recommend that you look up trades of Generation X, especially Chris Bachalo's run. And as long as you're looking up trades, grab Books of Magic and Sandman and Death: the High Cost of Living.Promethea is worth a read, too.
[ January 09, 2005, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
at vwiggin..
Which reminds me, why hasn't my Shonen Jump subscription come in yet? I'm all behind...
I was fascinated by the one issue of Powers I read, maybe I'll look into that. And a friend of mine swears by Fables...
[ January 09, 2005, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Ryuko ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
There's so much to recommend... a current ongoing series I like = "Agatha Heterodyne, Girl Genius" -- fun slapstick adventure, nicely plotted.
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
Girl Genius is awesome, from what little I've read of it.
If you're looking for something very interesting and a little more artsy, try Jimmy Corrigan, Smartest Boy on Earth. I think the author is F. P. Ward. I could be wrong, though.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
I don't read any American comics, but I grew up on Tintin and Asterix.
I know that had about as much relevance as if I'd brought a potato-peeler to a ship's launching, but I thought you might want to know anyway. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I was looking a pictures of Trajan's Column the other day, and thinking that it was basically a big, cylindrical comic book made out of stone.
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
It's not a comic book column! It's a graphic pillar! Have some respect for the artists!
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Raia: I love Tintin!! I want to get ahold of some in French.. :/ Hmmm... I wonder where I could buy it. Online probably. I haven't read much Asterix, but I liked that which I did read.
Noemon: Yes! It's a shame that the comic format has lost legitimacy in American culture... It's been around since ancient times!
I'm really interested in what you can do with comics. Maybe someday all the people who deserve it will be respected, instead of people saying comics are for kids and huge giant dorks.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Maus I, Maus II, or are those visual books?
EDIT: I also grew up on Tintin and Asterix.
[ January 09, 2005, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I suggest two graphic novels that I found fantastic, though they are each about 20 years old by now.
Watchmen by Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons
Batman The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller, (which did much to put the dark back into Batman.)
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Boy, The Dark Knight Returns was awesome. Although I take issue at Miller's inability (or unwillingness) to draw good looking men. It wasn't as bad, IIRC, in Dark Knight Returns. But the whole... End thing. Wow. Awesome. I also had a bit of a hard time keeping some of the characters straight. Esp. Robin. Girl Robin. Ya know.
But I've heard good stuff about Watchmen, even though I haven't had a chance to read it.
[ January 09, 2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Ryuko ]
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Bah, the problem I have with comics from America is... all of the different versions... Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, The Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man Blue etc... I just want the story from the origional, but... all of those become hard to find for me. >_<
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Teshi: No, Maus is comics.. The author, Art Spiegelman recently brought out a fascinating book called "In The Shadow of No Towers". I looked at it in the store and I really love what he's done with the tools he has. He drew it and then colored it and did the cleanup digitally. It's really cool. I need to get a copy..
Vadon: The problem is that the originals become outdated and go on for a LOOOONG time. Your best bet would be to pick up the Essential titles that Marvel is bringing out. They have the original comics, but they skip over some of the stories that are not as necessary or are outdated. They're also a LOT of comics for not a lot of price. Ultimate Spider-man is a retelling of the original story that's fresh and new with engaging art. I really like it, personally. You should take a look.
[ January 09, 2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Ryuko ]
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
quote: It's hard for me to recommend comics to a brand new reader, often, because I find that many of the comics I enjoy rely on a knowledge of the genre
Well, that's me A brand new reader with no knowledge of the genre.
You don't think any of these comics I'd be able to understand if I didn't have any knowledge of the genre?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Read Kabuki! The Third one in the Alchemy is out and I HAVE A LETTER IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Really, Syn? Who are you?
------
"You don't think any of these comics I'd be able to understand if I didn't have any knowledge of the genre?"
Specifically, I think Powers and Daredevil both rely on some familiarity with the genre. So does Ultimate Spider-Man, if you want to get the in-jokes -- but you don't have to. I left off comics like Spider-Man: Marvel Knights precisely because I think that most of their cool factor comes from watching the genre conventions be subverted.
[ January 09, 2005, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I think so. Ultimate Spiderman is pretty much a complete retelling. Even if you'd never seen the movies, you'd probably be able to get it.
Powers, from what I can tell, relies on some knowlege of the superhero genre...
I've never read Fables, but I can assume it wouldn't...
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Mine is the second letter!!!!!
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
You know, I read through the first issue of Spiderman: India at a comic book store a month or so ago, and was distinctly underwhelmed. It didn't make enough of an impression on me for me to be able to tell you now all the ways that it failed to impress, but I remember thinking that the story felt really disjointed and unengaging.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Y the Last Man is very readable, though I often find the writing to be a little hackneyed. It's about the last man on earth.... Intriguing, no?
Once again, I want to recommend Persepolis. The story of a girl growing up in revolutionary Iran, the story comes in two graphic novels. The first one is easily found in most book barns. The second (which I haven't read) can be order from Amazon.
Finally, to round it all out, I think The League of Extraordianary Gentlemen is a fascinating look at a parallel 19th century earth where fictional legends exist. The current graphic novel out at the book barn deals with a war between Mars and Earth. How can 19th century steam driven technology fight back Martian death rays? Read it and find out.
Tom, I would be very interested in your thoughts on what makes Hellblazer interesting to you. I can enjoy anti-heroes as much as the next fellow, but every time I read the comic, I can't get over what a grim comic book Hellblazer is. And I want to like the comic, really, but I just can't do it. John Constantine is certainly no Dr. Strange, that's for sure.
[ January 09, 2005, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
Tom, what about the rest? Fables? Bone? Runaways? Any of those you think I'd be able to understand?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Can't speak for Tom, but I buy Hellblazer for the same reason I've bought a lot of comics -- momentum.
The first 50 issues of Hellblazer, it was golden. Great story arcs, incredible character development and interesting twists, and every now and then new writers and artists would come in and take it in a whole new and exciting direction. Constantine's reaction to his own lung cancer and the machinations he used to cure himself are some of the best comics I've read.
The problem is that comics like that are hard to sustain. How do you keep him interesting when he's already outsmarted Satan, already dealt with angels and demons and the depths of his own soul? I still buy 'em, mostly out of habit, and I still enjoy them, but it's not the first one I read evey week any more.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Bone is completely self-sustained, and you could definitely read that one, Jaime. Runaways doesn't seem to need any particular rooting in the genre, though they do refer to other Marvel comics.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Was anyone else astoundingly disappointed by In the Shadow of No Towers? I expected so much better.
---
Storm, I've been meaning to ask. A while ago, you recommended The Invisibles. I got You Say You Want a Revolution and I really didn't like it. Does it change/get better?
---
Since this is a comics thread, I'll shill again. My friend Pete Stathis is writing a comic book, Evenfall, and, in my completely unbiased opinion, it's pretty darn good. The page for the comic book, where among other things you can read an issue free, is here. You can also buy the collected first four issues as Amazon.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
my favorite strips albums :
European :
- Thorgal - XIII - Tintin - Gaston Lagaffe - Lanfeust de Troy - Yoko Tsuno - Inspecteur Canardo
Manga :
- Blame - Vagabon - Hikaru no go - Rookies - Berserk - City Hunter - Cobra
Commics :
- Jay and Silent Bob - Calvin & Hobbes - Dork Tower - Spawn
lot of old comics from my youngness :
- Mickey Mouse - Mandrake the wizzard - Flash Gordon Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Choobak -- neat, someone else who knows what XIII is! I got some of them so that I can practice my French...
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Squicky,
Grant Morrison is one of those writers that people either like or they don't. There doesn't seem to be much of a middle ground. For someone like me who likes listening to Art Bell, who grew up on 'In Search Of...', and loved perusing Heavy Metal, it is immensely enjoyable to see someone who is unapologetic about forcefully exploring ecclectic ideas of dissidence and mysticism and revel in all that is in the flesh of the world. In my case, it is particularly nice to have something like that to go to after reading someone on this board be offended at the usual silly array of things for the 3,456,563 time.
When you ask if it gets better, given that I have no idea at all what you didn't like about what you read, and have to guess, the answer I have for you, is 'maybe, but probably not'.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Chris, a comic isn't sustained solely by the awesome, galactic fights.(edit: This wasn't me trying to lecture you. This is just preamble for next sentence.) It is, like every other piece of fiction, sustained by the ideas it explores and the characters in in its pages. Part of the problem that I have with Hellblazer, maybe the main problem that makes it grim for me, is that Constantine doesn't really get along with anyone and is always so grouchy and enigmatic. Almost every issue has him up to his eyeballs in demons, archdevils, and critters from the nether regions, and focuses almost exclusively on his battle with them. It would be nice to see the comic round out its cast of characters, the life of Constantine, a little more.
I understand that I'm speaking from a state of relative ignorance, not having followed the comic heavily, but these are just the impressions I get from what I have read.
[ January 10, 2005, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Part of the problem that I have with Hellblazer, maybe the main problem that makes it grim for me, is that Constantine doesn't really get along with anyone and is always so grouchy and enigmatic."
The comic is currently in an "isolate John Constantine and kill off all his friends and loved ones" phase. The reason it has entered this phase is that it recently completed a run in which John Constantine became essentially ridiculously popular with the rest of the world.
Constantine has a core group of friends. You may have to read the back issues and several other Vertigo comics to figure out who they are, and what part they play in his life (and vice versa), but he's not as much of a loner as you'd think by reading any individual issue.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Oh, I know he has some friends--Chaz, etc.--but from what I've read they aren't really 'there', if that makes any sense. Dunno. I'll keep trying to see if I can like it. Sometimes things take a while for me to discover that I like them.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, from the stuff I've read, Constantine and pals never seem to have any fun or enjoyment in life. The comic is even drawn predominantly in red and black, it seems like.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"The comic is even drawn predominantly in red and black, it seems like."
Ah. *nod* That would be the relatively recent run on the comic, which is definitely focused lately on ruining John's life. I'd like to think that this is a deliberate story arc, and not a permanent change to the "grim" setting.
That said, John has friends and not sidekicks. He is almost never accompanied by a friend on a "mission" nowadays, and generally only accepts the presence of his friends grudgingly when he's on a mission because they have a distressing tendency of dying when they accompany him. Zatanna seems to be an exception, and two less similar magicians you've never seen.
[ January 10, 2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Hmmm. I will keep on checking it out then. Maybe I just need to subscribe to it and give it a year, rather than try it intermittently.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
I had to bump this thread just to ask something:
First, so I read Runaways (except the last two issues which I'm going to get soon), the first 2 books of Ultimate Spider-man, and the first book of Y: the Last Man per your recommendations. I loved them all alot. Thanks a million to those that recommended them. I also picked up the first book of Ultimates. I enjoyed that alot too. Now, I want more series to read. I enjoyed all of those and I'm looking for a good ongoing series that I can catch up to and understand. Any more recommendations? Thanks again Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, most of what you just listed is available in ongoing series form. Buying just those comics alone would represent a decent monthly investment. And buying the trades is cheating, of course.
But if you liked those, you'd probably enjoy Fables and Powers. And almost certainly PS238.
I also picked up a very intriguing book by Grant Morrison that's so far looking to be a British Hindu take on superheroes. It's called Vimararama, or something to that effect.
[ February 23, 2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I recommend The Dark Knight Returns followed by The Long Halloween (perhaps THE classic Batman story - DKR was revolutionary, TLH was a return to the heart and soul of the series in the purest manner possible) and Dark Victory, the sequel to the Long Halloween. Batman: Year One is also a fascinating read, because it views the Dark Knight's first appearance's in a realistic Gotham mostly from the eyes of an outsider: Namely, Jim Gordon. Year One was written by the same guy who did TDKR and Sin City, Frank Miller.
If anyone's interested, Batman begins is largely based off of TLH and Year One, and from the rumors I've heard a-rumblin' from beneath the future sequels sound highly similar to certain things that develop in these comics.... Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Girl Genius is now available for free as a web comic -- the Foglios decided to go from publishing it as a comic book, to having 3 new pages a week on the web. (Then they'll publish a compilation every year or so, and hope that folks will buy the compilations!)
The second season of Runaways is coming out and it's pretty darn awesome. AWESOME.
Also, I got the old Chris Claremont/Dave Cockrum run of X-men in Essential X-men (1-4), and it's really really awesome. I love old comics.
And who else is disappointed that Rob Liefeld is still getting work? But I won't bash him, apparently he's a nice guy, and his old stuff doesn't look bad, but he just can't draw. (which is not bashing, because it's true.)
Oh, and plaid, I saw that comic on the shelves at a con a couple weeks ago, and I also heard about it from Chris Bridges. I think I'll check it out when I have some time.
[ May 03, 2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Ryuko ]
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I'm going to be getting Garth Ennis's (who did much work on Hellblazer) Preacher pretty soon, despite the fact that God is portrayed in it much as He is in Hellblazer: totally insane and totally absent.
The general story links with Hellblazer in many ways. An angel/demon hybrid escapes imprisionment in heaven and flees to (if you cna believe it) Texas, where it melds with the increasingly agnostic preacher Jessie Custer, giving him the power of the Word, the ability to convince anyone of anything. Jessie sounds pretty much like Constantine, only now he cares about what God's done, unlike ol' Johnny boy.
Possibly the coolest thing about it, though, is the Saint of Killers. Can't wait to read about him.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Oni Press and Top Shelf Comix are two publishers I greatly enjoy.
Some of my current favorite comics are:
Usagi Yojimbo Fables Knights of the Dinner Table Planetes Blue Monday Courtney Crumrin Hellboy Y, the Last Man Buddah Osamu Tezuka's PHOENIX What's Michael? Castle Waiting Age of Bronze Avigon The Walking Dead Invincible Noble Causes Goodbye, Chunky Rice Blacksad 7 Soldiers Scary Godmother Visitations The Barefoot Serpent Astonishing X-Men Breakfast Afternoon Mutant, Texas Oddville Tellos Days Like This Owly Strangers in Paradise (pre-2004) Flight Creature Tech Tommysaurus Rex Clan Apis Astro City The Road to Perdition Sandman Birds of Prey Boneyard Sabrina, the Teenage Witch (post Tania Del Rio revamp!) Barry Ween Sock Monkey Runaways Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I'd recommend Marvel's What If.... comics. They're very good. Ghost Rider is excellent. Just any Marvel comic basically. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I saw the What if Uncle Ben hadn't died one, and I really liked the format and story. It was cool.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
What If the Hulk had killed Wolverine? and What If Captain America formed the Avengers? are two really good ones.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*shudder* Steve, I....Never mind.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I just read "The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe". It was horriblarious. And awesome.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
A few folks mentioned Castle Waiting... that was a neat series, I hope it gets finished up someday, but it's been on hiatus for a few years now.
For folks who liked the Dragon Ball manga series (I did, though I didn't like the later Dragon Ball Z series, that was just heroes and villains punching one another), the same guy who did Dragon Ball is finally having an earlier series of his, Dr. Slump, published here in the U.S.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
It's been mentioned in Firefly threads, but the Serenity comic book that Joss Whedon is writing is due out in July: link to publishing schedule
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm all over the comic world lately. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
) I think part of the reason I did like Identity Crisis was because of the novelty. I hadn't ever read any DC comics straight off the rack, I'd just read compilations, and collecting it gave me an experience I don't get often. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
at vwiggin..![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I'm all behind...![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Although I take issue at Miller's inability (or unwillingness) to draw good looking men. It wasn't as bad, IIRC, in Dark Knight Returns. But the whole... End thing. Wow. Awesome. I also had a bit of a hard time keeping some of the characters straight. Esp. Robin. Girl Robin. Ya know.