quote:

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Mom,

I have been frustrated for a long time. I haven't been able to find a way to talk to you without hurting your feelings. I am having a hard time writing this without crying (ok, so I am failing at that). It hurts me (and our relationship) each time you say derogatory things about what my husband is (or isn't) doing. I feel like you disapprove of me everytime you disapprove of my husband. I am sure you kept a great house when Andy and I were kids. I am also reasonably sure that with Phil's work schedule he was around at times to watch us while you did some of the work around the house. I know you cry over the way I live, but I am happy. I wish you could be happy knowing that. There are times I don't look forward to talking with you or seeing you because I know you will say something that will hurt me or make me angry. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I just needed to get this out before anymore of it builds up.

I love you.

Love,

Connie

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quote:

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It's kind of funny that the first time I ever mentioned the issue to anyone aside from discussing it with my wife was with ketchupqueen and rivka at the Shinda this past weekend, possibly at the same exact time Mama was writing the e-mail.

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I noticed that, and chalked it up to you and Mama being so in sync.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 

quote:

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E-mail is a concern, because we both think it possible that Mom may respond to it before she really has a chance to read and think about it. Phone call is dangerous because Mama will cry, which makes it tougher. In person is dangerous because chances are either that she would be staying at our house or we would be staying at hers. She's a little too far away for an afternoon visit.

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quote:

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Mom,

I have been frustrated for a long time. I haven't been able to find a way to talk to you without hurting your feelings. I am having a hard time writing this without crying (ok, so I am failing at that).

It hurts me (and our relationship) each time you say derogatory things about what Michael is (or isn't) doing. I feel like you disapprove of me every time you disapprove of my husband. I know you cry over the way I live, but I am happy. I wish you could be happy knowing that.

There are times I don't look forward to talking with you or seeing you because I know you will say something that will hurt me or make me angry. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I just needed to get this out before any more of it builds up.

I love you.

Love,

Connie

P.S. I would prefer to keep this correspondence in writing for now. If you want to move it to e-mail that would be o.k. with me.

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quote:

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First, thank you for the pics and Cub stubs.

Second, I'm glad you wrote the letter. I am so very sorry I've hurt you, and I'm usually sorry right after I couldn't stop myself from saying something. I just hate to see your childhood dream of being a stay at home Mom go unfulfilled. Maybe that's basically at the root of all this. OK, so I can't write this without crying, either. Must run in the family.

You say you are happy, so I will have to let that be enough for me. Your life isn't my life and my approval or disapproval isn't important. Every parent's dream is for their kids to be happy in life, so if you are, I am glad for you. I did the best I knew how and will have to be quiet from now on.

As I have told you, I am proud of your accomplishments with school and success with work as an adult, and you are a very good mom to your two wonderful boys.

If I come the weekend of your birthday, I'd like to take you shopping for clothes or whatever you'd like for your birthday gift, so please give it some thought. I'd also like to start taking Carl out for lunch each time I'm there so we can have some Grandma/grandson time together if that's OK. When Timmy is older, I'd like to do that separately with him also, as I think that's important. I remember you telling me you were glad that I spent time separately with you as you were growing up and not always having our whole family along.

After I hear from Harriet, I'll see if Andy and Laura are available for dinner an evening that weekend so we can celebrate your birthday and Michael's. With the traffic and general environment getting worse, I really don't want to make that trip alone.

Love, Mom

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I haven't had a chance to really digest it yet. Thank you all for your thoughts.
 

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Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
I'm glad it seems to have turned out well for you. Here's to a better relationship for both you and your mother!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
It looks like she took it in about the best way possible.

*hugs* all squirrels and meese

AJ
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
That made me all teary eyed. Mama Squirrel, it sounds like you have a very nice family.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Okay, all y'all obviously don't have a mother like Mama has. I read that as yet another full body slam. Maybe it's just me.

If it makes you feel any better Mama, I was thinking about this thread today and meant to come and bump it with a post. I wish your mother could actually be happy for you, but sometimes you need to just let things go that you can't control and deal with the icky stuff for the sake of your sons.

This is the part that I hope makes you feel better.

My mother is the same way, only not with my or my sister, but with my brother's wife. He works full-time and she's the stay-at-home mom who isn't good enough. You have no idea how many times I've heard about my poor brother slaving away all day (he's a vice president in a bank for heaven's sake ) and how he comes home and has to pick up the toys, or how she doesn't even cook dinner half the time and he has to go out to McDonald's to get dinner. Or the fact that she gets so sleep in on the weekends and he has to get up with the kids. Or how her mother watches the kids at least one day a week while she's out goofing off. And my brother has to watch the kids at night so she can go do scrap booking or whatever else dumb thing she is doing instead of being a good wife/mother.

So your mom isn't alone in disapproval of how well a spouse can take care of the kids/house. Your mother is just stuck in 1950s America where moms stay at home and dads work. It's like being a racist, only with gender roles. Maybe she'll come around eventually.

But the whole "I just hate to see your childhood dream of being a stay at home Mom go unfulfilled," is just another twist of the knife, at least from my point of view. It's too bad she can't see Moose for the great father/husband that he is.

(Are you really happy? Or does she make a point? If so, you might tell her that while she was lucky enough to be able to stay at home, those circumstances aren't true for you and while you are doing what's right for your family, her constantly rubbing salt in the wound isn't helping. Maybe she'd be more supportive. If she can't, the next time she makes a comment, ask her if she's like to replace your income so you could stay at home. If not, tell her to butt out.)

I'll delete this post if you'd like.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I am sorry, but I have to agree with Kayla. It has a passive aggressive bent to it to me. However, she acknowledged it, took some responsibility for her actions, and was honest in saying that your happiness, if not her idea of what your happiness should be, will have to suffice.
 

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Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Mama Squirrel, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your mother's letter. I hope I haven't hurt your feelings.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 

quote:

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You have no idea how many times I've heard about my poor brother slaving away all day (he's a vice president in a bank for heaven's sake ) and how he comes home and has to pick up the toys, or how she doesn't even cook dinner half the time and he has to go out to McDonald's to get dinner. Or the fact that she gets so sleep in on the weekends and he has to get up with the kids.

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My dad does the same thing with my brother and sister-in-law. It's sad/hilarious to me to hear my dad talk about how my sister-in-law really isn't that great of a housekeeper, because that's EXACTLY what my grandmother says/said about my own mother and it ALWAYS ticks me off. Unsurprisingly, my grandmother has a poor relationship with me, and my dad has a poor relationship with his grandchildren. Can't they see that the grandkids are NOT going to side with a grandparent against one of their beloved parents?
 

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Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
 
Not a problem Shigosei. As I said I hadn't digested it yet. One thing Pop pointed out last night is that she mentioned everyone except him. She mentioned me, our sons, my brother and his wife (who my mom disapproved of for a long time when they first got married). I do find that highly ... interesting.

My mom doesn't know how to hold her tongue. I remember her saying derogatory things about my father in front of me. He was always late with child support (he really didn't have much money and gave when he could). She didn't "need" it anyway. She was married to a doctor.

She gives our kids a lot of things (clothes, toys, etc.). The clothes are helpful, but they have more toys than they need. Sometimes I think she thinks that means she can have some control over our lives.

I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt on the letter. We will have to see how it goes. Maybe she will watch her tongue more. And maybe she won't pat my belly next time we see her to let me know that I have some weight that I could lose (it happens every time we see her now).

Oh, by the way, my last post was my 100th post. It only took me 2 years and 4 months to do it!
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
I find myself continually grateful that if my parents dislike my wife, they hide it very, very well.

Sorry about this situation, Moose and Squirrel. Law/In-law troubles can really suck.
 

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Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
 
Oh, I'm sorry about the appearance comments. My dad does the same thing - it lessened when I started throwing a fit and then bursting into tears every time. It's not nice to do and it's uncomfortable for everyone, but nothing else was worked.
 

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Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 
I'm sorry you're having to go through this.

I must say that my first thought in reading her note was the same as Pop pointed out - she never mentions him (except for the passing reference to celebrating your birthdays together). It seemed a little harsh to me to talk about about how proud she is of you and what a good mom you are and say absolutely nothing about Michael. Since I don't know her, I have no idea if this omission was intentional or not. I really hope not.

I also really hope she'll knock off the patting your belly thing. As someone who is really sensative about their weight, I can't possibly imagine how hurt I would feel if either of my parents did that.

*big hugs to all the Mooses*
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
Sometimes it's frustrating to deal with someone who hurts you while simultaneously caring about you. If someone says something hurtful and you know they don't care about you, you can tell them to stick it in their eye.

But when you deal with someone who says "I love you, I love you" as they hit you over the head with a bat, it's hard to know how to deal with that.

I struggle with this too, and I tell myself that everyone shows love in different ways and maybe that's what my mother is doing. It sucks because I know that what's best for ME is probably to be out of contact with my mother for a long, long time, but that may not be fair to her.

Oh wait, this isn't about me.

I hope things work out for you.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
All right I'm going to ammend my previous comment. If I got this letter from *my* mother or grandmother I'd be thrilled.

Yes I'd notice the ommisions. However any admission of "not being absolutely right about everything" would be huge progress in my own family. I would look at the ommissions as the ways they chose to save face by pretending for the moment they didn't exist.

Also to my understanding Moose and Squirrel wouldn't mind if their roles were reversed to the more traditional way, however, for their family at this time, it just isn't practical. But that is the other vibe I was getting. It seems as if her mother knows Squirrel would like to stay home with the children and is fixating on that, rather than the practical and financial constraints of doing what is best for the needs of the family unit rather than perhaps the personal wants (not needs) of an individual family member.

So I guess it depends on how willing at all she normally is at making even mild offers or concessions. For my family this would be *huge* progress, but how big a step it actually is, depends on the woman writing it.

AJ
 

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Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Mama, I'm sorry I didn't read your mother's letter in a more understanding light. I read it as if it were my mother... My mom is so inoffensive that it would take an act of God to get her to be cruel. (There are downsides to this...she also is so inoffensive she doesn't stand up for herself when she should.)

I see what Kayla's saying though, and apologize. That would hurt a lot.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
My dad stopped patting my belly once I started patting his bald spot.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
See, if you were used to this type of parent, you would see what could happen next. Moose gets a fabulous job at twice Mama's current salary and Mama quits her job to be a stay at home mom and her mother's next comments go something like this.

"Are you sure it's wise to quit your job? What if your husband loses his job, or drops dead of a heart attack, or divorces you? You will be left alone to raise two children with job skills that are out of date. The thing I regret the most is when I let my (insert random skill) lapse. When I needed to (or "If I had ever needed to) find a job, I'd have had no skills and would have ended up in some minimum wage job. You really need to keep your options open."

And being the paranoid that I am, I'm of the belief that given the opportunity, she will use the information that the kids give her while out on their "lunches" will be used against you. "Oh, really, daddy let's you (insert something harmless)?" "Oh, mommy and daddy were fighting last night?" My son has been trained (poorly, but we're still working on it) not to talk about me or his father with my family. He's not allowed to talk about movies he's seen or what he eats or anything we say to him. But hey, at least we let them see him.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
"And maybe she won't pat my belly next time we see her to let me know that I have some weight that I could lose (it happens every time we see her now)."

Mama Squirrel, I recently alomost died. My aunt drove three hours up and back from NYC to see me in the hospital.
Now, she takes the opportunity of my recovery, which involves physical therapy, which involves exercise, to point out how fat i am, and how I really should do my exercizes.
When I was nine months pregnant with my son, she said: "How are you feeling? Tired and heavy? Well, after the baby is born, don't you think it's time for you to lose some weight?"

Ah, family love!
 

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Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Ya know, Kayla, that sounds exactly like what my almost-ex and his parents try to pull. Fortunately my 11 year old has figured out that what she tells Gramma about the things we do almost always gets twisted and abused, so she has begun to edit. And the 7 year old is just indecipherable enough where they seem to place absolutely no stock in anything she says.

Mama, I do see how the response from your mother could be a good thing, but I too see quite a bit of double-talk and derision in there. Sounds to me like your mother is one of those people for whom nothing is ever right unless it's absolutely her way, which means that she'll never accept Papa for who he is and what he does no matter what. He could be elected president or become CEO of a major corporation and she'd likely still have a gripe against him. And that's not something you can ever change.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Goody, isn't it nice for you though that it is an ex-in-law and not your own mother?

Parents, can't live with them, can't wait for the inheritance.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
E, I once had a well-meaning relative tell me that I should make sure I always stay beautiful so that my husband will always love me. She said she would hate for him to leave me if I choose to let my body be wrecked by pregnancy.

That's a real heartening thing to say to a nineteen-year-old newlywed with her first baby on the way. Scared me TO DEATH.
 

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Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
Just to show some contrast, here's an excerpt from an e-mail that came from Mama's dad and stepmom today:

quote:

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Mike, you should bottle your child rearing skills as they look (and are) so happy! God Bless you - we appreciate the effort you both put into raising them.

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I love Mama's mom, and I know she wants the best for her and her family. Unfortunately, I don't think she believes that I am the best for them, and as others have suggested, I'm not sure of what could change her mind on that. If the only way she can keep from digging at me is the "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" method, well then that's what we'll live with. I think she was worried about becoming unimportant in our lives, and so has tried to make herself needed. What I don't think she's realized yet (though maybe she's getting there now) is that if she makes it a choice between me and her, Mama will choose me. She'll avoid the choice as long as possible, but that'd be her call.

--Pop
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Pop,
Focus on the positive, because those are some lovely, well deserved compliments.
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Big hugs and good thoughts for mama, and also for everyone in this thread who has relatives who comment on their weight. I like Tom's approach. Find something unappealing about them. Twist the knife.

Oh dear... that probably wasn't very good advice for family harmony.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
You know what, ElJay? It is even worse when you lose weight. Then all stops are removed, and you get to hear aboput how fat you were.

Argh. Which just made me think that of Mama S does get to a pont where she is home and pop is working, she might hear the same kind of stuff. i sure hope not. The sad part is, they really do think they are doing what they do out of love.

[ January 12, 2005, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
It's part of my job to talk about weight with patients. I don't really like it but I have to do it. And I do it calmly and rationally and educate. What I don't like is when patients turn around and critique my weight or appearance in turn. Maybe it's a defense mechanism, I don't know. But hey. I see 20 patients a day, most patients only have 1-3 doctors total. Doesn't seem fair to me. My family at least has been taught not to say anything.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Theca, that's shocking to me. Of course it's a doctor's job to address a patient's weight problem. I have gained weight from the fertility treatments and it's been very difficult for me. My doctor and nurses have been very candid with me about how much I can expect to gain and how long it will take to get off (a really long time, especially when I get pregnant). I have really appreciated their candor and would never expect anything less.

Mama S, I have major weight issues with my mother, too. She is much, much better about it now because she finally understands that it's a side effect from the treatments. And because I will not talk to her anymore if she gives me grief. She was a model in the 70s and thinks that Calista Flockhart has the perfect body. Once, when I was 14, we went bathing suit shopping. I picked out a lavender and blue bikini that was extremely trendy and expensive. It was a size 0 - I weighed 102 lbs and was 5'4''. My mother said, "I'll buy it for you, but you have to promise not to gain any weight." Geez Lousie!

Mothers and daughters. Sigh.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
MS, I think that that letter, although it wasn't perfect, was as much as you coul;d have hoped for, and it seems like she took it really well....

Much better than you had been fearing, right?

So take it at face value, for now...adn if she continues then you can mention it to her, and say that you have brought it up before.

Best of luck....

Kwea
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
Pop, I think that it's kind of funny that your dad-in-law is supportive of you while your mother-in-law seems almost.. I don't know, in competition?

Mike and Connie, Please forgive my bluntness, but from my angle, it looks like like Connie's step dad recognizes and appreciates how hard it is to be involved in the daily life of the kids and how valuable it is to have both parents involved in the kids development. Connie's mom does seem to be trying to impose her own ideals of what it takes to be happy on Connie. I'm sure she realizes that if Connie had to make a choice between the two of you, she'd choose you. This choice doesn't reflect the way her first marriage went and I doubt that she can even understand that your family is happy and that Connie is happy because Connie's requirements for happiness are different from hers and Connie's requirements are being fulfilled.

This happiness and love are the most important things for you guys. Don't let ANYONE, not even your extended family try to convince you that you aren't happy. You're the only ones who get the full benefit of those gifts and you're the only ones who get to judge them.

[ January 13, 2005, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: LadyDove ]
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
Another thought:

quote:

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I remember you telling me you were glad that I spent time separately with you as you were growing up and not always having our whole family along.

---

I don't read this as an attempt to manipulate or to hurt. I read this as a displaced/insecure mom trying to relive something she did well.

:::sending good, positive vibes and prayers:::

[ January 13, 2005, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: LadyDove ]
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Theca, I can't imagine a patient saying that to a doctor! My doctor is very candid, and discusses my family health history, etc. He also knows I know this, and that it is hard nonetheless.
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Me too.....I really think that her letter showed some really good signs.

At the least she can't say she didn't now it was hurting you if she does it again. The fact that you had the courage to tell her means more than the actual world spoken, I think.

Thanks God I get along with my in-laws, my mouthier-in-law in particular. She is even real..she met a TON of Hatrackers at the WMASS Picnic this past summer!

Kwea

[ January 13, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 

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Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
Theca, I'm stunned. If it was someone commenting on their weight strictly for matters of appearance, I can totally understand "hitting back." But you go to a medical professional to talk about your health, and part of that is how you're taking care of your body. Not how they're taking care of theirs. Wow.
 

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Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
 
I have been thinking about this thread a lot lately. I was getting all teary-eyed just rereading it. It needs to be brought up again, but I really just don't have the energy to deal with it right now.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*hug*
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Oh dear.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 


*hugs*
 

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Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
 
Oh, I'm so sorry.

Can you send an email saying, "Mom, remember the letter I sent you? Will you please re-read it? Because I'm feeling the same way again."

I totally understand the not wanting to deal with it, though.
 

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Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
 
What are thinking about it all now, Mama Squirrel?
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Friendly ears, should it help. If not, then good thoughts (and plenty of 'em) coming your way.
 

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Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
 
I'm not totally new but I did take about a 2 year break from the fora. I just wanted to post here to thank you, Mama Squirrel, for posting all of this. I have similar problems with my mom and I avoid talking to her as much as possible because she always criticizes my husband. I haven't found a way to deal with it yet other than avoidance. You can't know how helpful it was for me to see someone else in a similar situation, trying to deal with it proactively and lovingly.

I send you all my best wishes and prayers, and I am so impressed by the difficult and brave steps you've taken.
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 
*hug*

((Meeses and squooses))
 

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