I was watching the Today Show this morning, and there was a couple whose baby is the smallest newborn on record.(smaller of twins) They moved here from India, and are Muslim. They thanked Allah for the blessing bestowed on them. Then the announcre said that the older twin would be home in time for Christmas.
Sorry, but I thought that was tacky.
[ December 22, 2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Um, yeah. Doesn't quite work out well, does it? Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
At the very least I hope they have a nice tree.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Looking for insult when none is intended.
[ December 22, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
No, but its still an insult. The program announcer assumes they celebrate christmas, DESPITE the fact that they are muslim. If he'd done 3 seconds of thinking, he would have realized that muslims do not celebrate christmas.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You hardly have to look for the insult. That no insult is intended does not mean that no insult has been committed.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Quotation from the attending physician: Hiba will be home for Christmas and Rumaisa will be home for NewYears.
Our NewYears is neither the Indian nor the Muslim NewYears.
[ December 22, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
It's also a federal holiday, and a milestone for most of the viewers watching the show.
It might not be meaningful to the couple, but it's not insulting.
For example, if a doctor said to me, "you'll be home before the end of Ramadan" or "by Yom Kippur," it wouldn't insult me. But it might not give me any useful information, because I'm not exactly sure when those holidays are celebrated each year.
Dagonee
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
It does sound bad.
But, on the other hand, many many people who don't celebrate Christmas or New Years still get the day off so many times there IS some value in mentioning it. An nice three day weekend when each child comes home is nice even if they don't celebrate anything else. I don't know if this couple has jobs in America, though.
Dag beat me. I should stop posting while working.
[ December 22, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
It's sad that people would be insulted by something as trivial is that. One of the lessons our society most needs to learn is when NOT to be offended.
If it is not intended as an insult, it shouldn't be taken as an insult. If you take it as an insult nevertheless, that should be considered your mistake, not theirs.
[ December 22, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Dag- On the other hand, you're also a christian living in a country dominated by christians. They are muslims living in a country dominated by christians.
That makes your situation, and their situation, very different.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yes, but Islam specifically allows Muslims to wish Christians "Merry Christmas" and to acknowledge festivals of other religions, even if those festivals commemorate beliefs anathema to Islam.
Dagonee
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I don't think it's a question of insult. No, no insult was intended, and probably none was taken. It's not that big a deal.
What it is, is incredibly tacky. It's the sort of comment that you make and then cringe and mentally kick yourself for. Not because it's insulting, but because you should have known better.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It might not be insulting, but it was certainly a dumb thing to say.
.
*grin* ElJay beat me to it.
[ December 22, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
No, PaulGoldner, it makes you a bigot for assuming that any mention of a holiday that you personally don't celebrate is an attack on your ethnicity and/or religion.
[ December 22, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Hrm. You're a bigot for not having the effort to put yourself in someone elses shoes.
Now, do you want to have a productive conversation or do you just want to call each other names?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"If it is not intended as an insult, it shouldn't be taken as an insult. If you take it as an insult nevertheless, that should be considered your mistake, not theirs."
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. There may indeed be grounds for offense in statements not intended to be offensive.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I agree that their may be grounds to take offense in many statements not intended as an insult.
This statement doesn't have those grounds.
Dagonee
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Dag, what grounds do you feel qualify you to make that determination?
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Depends on how it was delivered.
Yeah, if its directed at the audience, and the couple isn't involved, then its probably not taken as an insult. If the statement is made for the benefit of the couple, which is hard to tell from this context, then it IS insulting, because the announcer should have taken the time to realize that christmas, although a date they are aware of and have time off for, is not a special date. The context of the statement makes it clear that the intent is "Look! the kids will be home by this special date!" You don't use holidays in that context other then for warm-fuzzies. If you're trying to give the audience warm fuzzies, then you succeed. If you're trying to give the couple warm-fuzzies, then all you've done is shown how ignorant you are of them and their religion, and that you are boorish enough not to take the time to do research for a television show.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Because the statement can be factually interpreted as true. Christmas has a definite date. The child will be home by that date. Further, the date is a milestone recognized by the vast majority of the viewing public.
Dagonee
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I think the statement was tacky. Could even be called dumb because it likely has no meaning to the couple in question. If it were me, if something wished me a happy Kwanzaa (and I still don't know exactly what that is) as if it should mean something to me, I'd probably look at them with a blank stare, wondering what the heck was going on. Insulted? Probably not. But confused or wondering "what the heck?" Yeah, most likely.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Again, you're coming from the perspective of someone in the majority. Muslims are a marginalized people in our country right now.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
I wonder if you can ask any muslim when this christmas time is?
Because I'm not jewish and I know when or at least around when hanukkah happens, and someone were to say Great! You'll be home in time for hanukkah. I wouldn't be offended.
Muslims do have a holiday in december.
*Disclaimer: I am not muslim.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Again, you're coming from the perspective of someone in the majority. Muslims are a marginalized people in our country right now.
And I contend this distinction 1) makes it far more likely that no offense was intended, and 2) doesn't matter.
Dagonee
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
1) Whether or not offense is intended has almost nothing to do with whether or not someone actually takes offense.
2) Of course a culture being marginalized matters in context of whether or not something is an insult. If you're of a culture that is marginalized, and someone makes a statement further marginalizing you (which this statement could have done, see my above post concerning the manner in which its insulting and the manner in which its not), then you FEEL that marginalization happening, and makes the statement offensive.
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
1) Someone takes offense because they want to take offense. 2) When people know they aren't in majority of anything they know to not worry about things like that. I know when games / software and anything else is going to be released, because I'm always paying attention to that, and I have branded myself a geek. Wether or not they have branded themselves as muslim or not, they Chose to be muslim because it fits, like I chose to be a geek because I like it. (or I chose to believe in god because I think it fits. -- if someone hates punk music or jazz or classical, I'm nice, and will usually listen to anything they want to listen to.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"1) Someone takes offense because they want to take offense."
Hm. This is a very convenient way indeed to say that no one, anywhere in the world, should be hurt by anything that anyone else does. I wonder if you apply the same logic to your own interactions with people.
"2) When people know they aren't in majority of anything they know to not worry about things like that."
Ah. "Because they choose to belong to a religious minority, the rest of us don't need to worry about including them in our society...?"
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Whether or not offense is intended has almost nothing to do with whether or not someone actually takes offense.
Not true at all, because if someone meant to be offensive, and the target knows that, then offense will likely be taken even if the remark is not facially offensive.
quote:Of course a culture being marginalized matters in context of whether or not something is an insult. If you're of a culture that is marginalized, and someone makes a statement further marginalizing you (which this statement could have done, see my above post concerning the manner in which its insulting and the manner in which its not), then you FEEL that marginalization happening, and makes the statement offensive.
Nah, I don't buy it. I just had this discussion in another thread.
Dagonee
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Tom: Someone going into an emotional state over something (IE: offense) Because someone didn't mean to harm them, is entirely unacceptable by any standards.
Uh, not talking about christmas to them because they are muslim IS NOT including them in society.
[ December 22, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: raventh1 ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Tom: Someone goiong into an emotional state over something (IE: offense) Because someone didn't mean to harm them, is entirely unacceptable by any standards."
So intent is all that matters? Or do you agree that if some harm occurs, even if it wasn't intended, that harm still occurred?
Like, for example, if I meant to save your baby from a robber but accidentally shot both the baby and the robber, you'd still have the right to be mad at me?
But if I meant to wish you a happy holiday, and instead reminded you that you are a second-class citizen in a society which remains largely ignorant -- even dismissive -- of your customs and traditions, you have only yourself to blame if you're hurt?
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Taking lives and talking about thinks are completely different. Should we all go into a world where we can't say anything for fear of this "reminded you that you are a second-class citizen in a society which remains largely ignorant" ?
If you killed my son, I would be angered. But more-so to the person it needs it at. The robber.
Secondly, I would have had the gun, and if I had done that, it would have been pretty unforgivable for me to do it, and would have to hospitalize myself.
If harm is brought about, something should be done then by the party that is harmed. To prevent harm in further cases.
[ December 22, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: raventh1 ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
"Nah, I don't buy it. I just had this discussion in another thread."
And you are still dead wrong. You're a white christian heterosexual male, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, and since you have no clue, just assume I'm blowing hot air.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In all fairness to Dag, Paul, Catholicism is enough of a minority in this country that I've seen him occasionally feel compelled to post to correct some incorrect impression. So he might know something about such feelings, although his behavior in those situations -- always polite, but often rather strained -- suggests that your assessment of such cases is closer than his to the reality of the situation.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
"Catholicism is enough of a minority in this country"
Erm, catholicism is the largest religious sect in this country.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:And you are still dead wrong. You're a white christian heterosexual male, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, and since you have no clue, just assume I'm blowing hot air.
Tripe. Pure and simple unsubstantiated assumptions about what someone else is capable of knowing. Pretty much the flip side of your being called a bigot in this thread, and almost as inexcusable.
And if what you say is true, why are you bothering to tell me, since it's impossible for me to understand.
quote:In all fairness to Dag, Paul, Catholicism is enough of a minority in this country that I've seen him occasionally feel compelled to post to correct some incorrect impression. So he might know something about such feelings, although his behavior in those situations -- always polite, but often rather strained -- suggests that your assessment of such cases is closer than his to the reality of the situation.
And in those situations, where statements are made about Catholics or Catholicism, I explain the facts that underly any potential offensiveness, either to me or to other Catholics. It's only when people persist in their statements after they know it might be considered offensive that I would consider them offensive.
Dagonee
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I'm in the ElJay/dkw camp. Not insulting, but really tacky/silly.
-Bok
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Erm, catholicism is the largest religious sect in this country.
Anti-Catholicsm has a long and glorious history in this great nation of ours. There was a whole political party dedicated to it.
In fact, anti-Catholicism was one of the few things that could unite Protestant sects.
Even today, their is a strong Protestant/Catholic divide that, for comparison purposes, can cause the numbers of most Protestant denominations (or rather, denominations that represent the vast majority of Protestants in the country) to be aggregated.
Dagonee
[ December 22, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
I don't agree with it being tacky, because if you should have known better, why didn't you?
This brings up the whole situation about people not being perfect. Just because he didn't know better doesn't mean he should feel shame. I'm starting to think that if it is wrong at all for him not to know it, it is just as wrong for the person that is or could be offended about it, not to pull him aside and say something, and possible fix the problem. (If it is a problem.) (Those affected by such problems I think are just as obligated to let people know about that it is a problem as the person that made a mistake unknowingly.)
[ December 22, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: raventh1 ]
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Can I hop on the offended bandwagon?
quote: Anti-Catholicsm has a long and glorious history in this great nation of ours. There was a whole political party dedicated to it.
Man too bad all those Mormons are dead, because of those extermination orders.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Oh, I know there's a nice tradition of anti-catholicism in this country, though I would argue that its mostly from fear of political influence of the pope, and largely a political fear, and doesnt carry over into other spheres the way that the marginalization of non-christians, non-whites, and homosexuals does.
"Tripe. Pure and simple unsubstantiated assumptions about what someone else is capable of knowing. Pretty much the flip side of your being called a bigot in this thread, and almost as inexcusable."
Yeah, it is tripe... but, they aren't unsubstantated assumptions. You've pretty well proven in discussions about this that you really don't understand people of marginalized cultures can feel further marginalized when people do things like this, that are unthinkingly harmful.
"And if what you say is true, why are you bothering to tell me, since it's impossible for me to understand."
Because I do think its possible to put yourself in someone else's shoes. I just don't think you've tried, or understood what it means to be of an excluded culture to the extent that you can try in a manner thats likely to get you anywhere.
" It's only when people persist in their statements after they know it might be considered offensive that I would consider them offensive."
So, then, you would agree that the statement at the beginning of this thread is offensive, as its almost impossible to live in this country and not know that people take these sorts of statements offensively?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote: I'm in the ElJay/dkw camp. Not insulting, but really tacky/silly.
Woo-hoo! We got Bok! *high-fives dkw*
quote: I don't agree with it being tacky, because if you should have known better, why didn't you?
Slip of the tounge. Haven't you ever said something and then immediately realized you should have known better? Maybe the announcer did, maybe someone else corrected him. Maybe the parents were too gracious to do so, considering they were being hosted on TV. I certainly would have let it slide in those circumstances. Not a huge deal, in the grand scheme of things. But I bet he realized what he had said and felt stupid immediately, and maybe even went and apologized for the slip. We can't know one way or the other, can we?
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Yeah, I'm with the "tacky" people. (Ooooh - that sounded bad!) I seriously doubt the guy was like, "You know, I think I shall purposely offend these people by mentioning Christmas."
Stupid slip of the tongue. I know I've said things from my perspective that I've had to immediately apologize for.
space opera
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
ooohh, I wanna be in the Bok camp!!!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
so, if I'm right, the person who said this was relaying information - they weren't the doctors telling the child exactly when the child was going to be home, it was the announcer or anchorperson passing on information to the public that was watching the show, right?
Christmas is a federal holiday, it's like someone already mentioned, a way of giving the listening public a milestone.
I don't see the problem??
It doesn't sound to me like it was an insult directed exactly toward the couple, but just a general, informational announcement to the American public, of which the vast majority DO celebrate Christmas and even those that don't know when it is.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Seems to me that this is a lot like accidentally asking a woman undergoing fertility treatments what's she planning on doing for Mother's Day this year. It's not deliberately offensive, but it's still painful for the other person, and deserves an apology.
Posted by dread pirate romany (Member # 6869) on :
I'm in the tacky though it wasn't intentionally insulting camp.
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
Great, now I've got that quote from "Oh Brother Where art Thou" stuck in my head.
quote: ...and all those smart @$$ folks who think we come descended from monkeys!
P.S. On the original topic, what is so disturbing about realizing the media is a bunch of hairdos who don't think about anything before they say it? (no offense, Chris).
[ December 22, 2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Trisha the Severe Hottie ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:You've pretty well proven in discussions about this that you really don't understand people of marginalized cultures can feel further marginalized when people do things like this, that are unthinkingly harmful.
So not agreeing with you means I don't understand?
It is possible to understand and still not agree.
Dagonee
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
I don't think it is, in this case. Your statement that my comment is in reference to is pure ignorance. And I'd say that about anyone who thinks that someone who is marginalized on a daily basis won't feel further marginalized when a comment that distinguishes them from mainstream culture is made in reference to them or their culture.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I agree with ElJay, dkw, Bok, and all them folks. Tacky, but not really insulting.
And I like Zeugma's example and reasoning.
Dags, could you clarify something for me, please?
When you said
quote: For example, if a doctor said to me, "you'll be home before the end of Ramadan" or "by Yom Kippur," it wouldn't insult me. But it might not give me any useful information, because I'm not exactly sure when those holidays are celebrated each year.
and then
quote: Christmas has a definite date.
you didn't actually mean to imply that Ramadan and Yom Kippur don't have definite dates, did you? Because they surely DO, and on calendars that have been around a whole lot longer than the Gregorian.
Moreover, with the Net, it is a task of a minute or two (maximum) to determine the corresponding Gregorian date on a given year.
quote: Muslims do have a holiday in december.
Actually, rav, that's not true. Eid (the end of Ramadan) fell in November this year, and will again next year. In 2006, it will be in October. Since the Muslim calendar is a pure lunar calendar, which does not get synced up with the solar calendar, holidays with specific lunar dates can occur pretty much anywhere in the solar year.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:you didn't actually mean to imply that Ramadan and Yom Kippur don't have definite dates, did you? Because they surely DO, and on calendars that have been around a whole lot longer than the Gregorian.
Moreover, with the Net, it is a task of a minute or two (maximum) to determine the corresponding Gregorian date on a given year.
Of course, but when used as a reference point in time, they don't convey meaningful information to people who don't use that date every day. Easter doesn't have a definite date in that system, and as such is not useful in providing a reference point in time, except to mean "sometime in early spring."
quote:I don't think it is, in this case. Your statement that my comment is in reference to is pure ignorance. And I'd say that about anyone who thinks that someone who is marginalized on a daily basis won't feel further marginalized when a comment that distinguishes them from mainstream culture is made in reference to them or their culture.
"Pure ignorance," huh? You said, "You're a white christian heterosexual male, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, and since you have no clue, just assume I'm blowing hot air." First, you don't know what I'm assuming about you. You don't speak for me, you don't know what I think, and my words do not convey anything other than my opinion about your conclusion. Second, if you are truly taking the position that I as person type X cannot have any clue what you're talking about, then you are frankly bigoted.
Dagonee
[ December 22, 2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
My statement-
"You've pretty well proven in discussions about this that you really don't understand people of marginalized cultures can feel further marginalized when people do things like this, that are unthinkingly harmful."
You're response
"So not agreeing with you means I don't understand?
It is possible to understand and still not agree."
My response
"I don't think it is, in this case. Your statement that my comment is in reference to is pure ignorance. And I'd say that about anyone who thinks that someone who is marginalized on a daily basis won't feel further marginalized when a comment that distinguishes them from mainstream culture is made in reference to them or their culture."
My position- If you do not think that people of marginalized cultures can be made to felt further marginalized by statements that are not intended to be harmful, then you are ignorant.
What is NOT my position- That a white christian heterosexual male cannot feel marginalized.
What IS my position- It is LESS LIKELY, that a christian, heterosexual, white male, will feel marginalized, in this country, to anything like the degree that someone not of those cultures can experience. Further, a member of those cultures will NEVER experience the marginalization because of his culture, on a day to day basis, that someone not of those cultures, often experience on a day to day basis, BECAUSE of their culture. It IS my position that, just as it is less likely that a white person can understand what it means to be a black man in this country in terms of racism, it is also less likely that a white christian heterosexual male can understand how people who do not fit that description are marginalized, (often in very subtle ways).
If thats being bigoted, fine. I have no problems with making true statements that recognize that people of different cultures experience life differently.
I apologize for my initial statement on that matter. It was very poorly written.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:It is LESS LIKELY, that a christian, heterosexual, white male, will feel marginalized, in this country, to anything like the degree that someone not of those cultures can experience. Further, a member of those cultures will NEVER experience the marginalization because of his culture, on a day to day basis, that someone not of those cultures, often experience on a day to day basis, BECAUSE of their culture. It IS my position that, just as it is less likely that a white person can understand what it means to be a black man in this country in terms of racism, it is also less likely that a white christian heterosexual male can understand how people who do not fit that description are marginalized, (often in very subtle ways).
If you think being non-christian, homosexual, non-white, or non-white are the only possible ways you can be a minority, I disagree 100%. These aren't even the most important cultural minorities. Have you ever been a southerner in the north or a northerner in the south? Have you ever been a city-dweller in the country or a country-folk in the city? Have you ever come from a weird family, or have an unusual physical feature, or have strange talents or disabilities? Have you even belonged to a clique in high school? Have you ever been male somewhere where most people were female? Any of these are important social and cultural minorities - most are MORE significant cultural differences than the four you mentioned.
I'd like to meet the person who has NEVER been in the minority, because I have not yet. It's fairly safe to say everyone here knows painfully well what it is like to be in a minority.
quote:So intent is all that matters? Or do you agree that if some harm occurs, even if it wasn't intended, that harm still occurred?
Like, for example, if I meant to save your baby from a robber but accidentally shot both the baby and the robber, you'd still have the right to be mad at me?
But if I meant to wish you a happy holiday, and instead reminded you that you are a second-class citizen in a society which remains largely ignorant -- even dismissive -- of your customs and traditions, you have only yourself to blame if you're hurt?
Tom, intent IS what matters... when it comes to mere insults. Shooting a baby is not a matter of insults - it's a matter of killing. But if I meant to complement your baby, and instead insulted it by accident, you should not be mad. It would be a mistake on my part, but one that says only that I don't understand how my words will be interpretted, not one that says I actually don't respect you.
Similarly, if you take a given comment as a reminder of your own opinion that you are a second class citizen, and that comment was not intended to say that, then it IS only yourself that you have to blame. If I don't actually consider you a second class citizen and I don't actually intend to disrespect you, then I haven't disrespected you, except in your mind where you choose to take it as a disrespect.
[ December 22, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
But most of those "unintentional insults" could be avoided if the perpetrator actually paused a couple of seconds before speaking and *Thought* about what they were about to say. You mention accidentally insulting a baby...what about the stand-up comic standard "When's the baby due?" to a woman who is not pregnant?
Does a woman on the chunky side have a right to be insulted by the assumption? I think so. And women often are. If the person (who had no idea one way or the other if there actually *was* a baby due) had stopped and thought, they would have realized an assumption like that could prove deadly.
In regards to the topic at hand, the announcer had even *less* of an excuse than the baby-assumer above...they KNEW FOR A FACT that the guests were Muslim, and obviously practicing given their mention of Allah, and therefore had little to no excuse for such a tacky comment.
[ December 22, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Leonide ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Again, you're coming from the perspective of someone in the majority. Muslims are a marginalized people in our country right now.
Paul, I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong on this one.
Yes, I am a Christian. But I'm not living in a country where Christians represent the majority. I live in Sri Lanka. Buddhists comprise about 69% of the population, followed by Hindus at 14%, Muslims at 7% and Christians at 7%.
My husband is a Muslim, and what I wrote about what my reaction would be is pretty much what his reaction is when something similar happens to him. Which it does.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Does a woman on the chunky side have a right to be insulted by the assumption? I think so.
Do they have a "right"? Yes, anyone can get insulted whenever they want for whatever reason they want.
What I'm saying is that it's their own fault if they choose to exercise that right when it isn't necessary. What benefit does it serve you to get mad at someone who didn't mean you harm for saying something that he didn't intend to say? What is the use?
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Tacky, but not really insulting.