So, I've been hanging out on campus all day. I got my final project for design printed out and was carrying it around with me.
It's am 18 by 24 poster - the assignment was to make a propaganda poster on a political or social topic. This is what I came up with - a protest of the French government's ban on religious clothing in schools.
I ran into an acquaintance of mine who asked to see the poster I was carrying. He didn't quite get it, and I explained that it was a protest of the law passed by Chirac's government last March prohibiting wearing overt religious symobls in schools. His response: "Dude, Annie, why are you such a France-lover? Don't you like America?"
Ummm.... Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
You should've told him it's becuase you're so cute. That's what I would've said I had I been there anyways...
Hobbes Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Dude, Hobbes, you ruin my funn stories.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
translation please? ?.?
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
my point in the poster was that the translation doesn't matter. The bottom sentence, youll notice, is in English.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Sorry Annie - the point escaped me as well.
-Trevor
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
It's a protest of the French government's ban on religious clothing in schools.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Oh, my bad. I hadn't seen it. Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Right, I got that.
But as propaganda posters go, it's rather tame.
The last line in English sums it up, but the two comments before it don't really bring any impact to bear on the concept you're trying to emotionalize and/or drive home.
-Trevor
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
What is "Al-Hijjab"? Is it "the cockroach"? (Damn, Hebrew roots n-e-v-e-r work out well with Arabic ones!)
Some of the letters there seem a bit 'obscure' to me, it said- "Fa'ni? artidya alhijjab", did I misread somehow?
Jonny
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Al-Hijjab means Hijab - the name of the headscarf.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:Some of the letters there seem a bit 'obscure' to me, it said- "Fa'ni? artidya alhijjab", did I misread somehow?
It's in Moroccan, which I hear is an especially difficult dialect. Maybe that's the problem?
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
The point of my original post, though, was how funny I found his reaction to my totally anti-Chirac poster.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
The Hijab, aha...
Always nice to improve my Arabic outside of school, to spite our teacher... He's one of the best.
Oh, WTHeck, it's OT in any case.
شكرن.
Jonny
[ December 13, 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Where do you study Arabic? And what dialects do you learn?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
At school, in Jerusalem.
Those who learned Arabic in junior high (such as myself), learn Literary Arabic, so we actually write.
Those without a background learn the local Jerusalemites' dialect.
I know some Moroccans in Israel, and they speak (if they know how to,) Arabic so differently (maybe because they were the local Jews), that it's impossible for the Muslims here to understand the Jews [from] there.
[ December 13, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:The last line in English sums it up, but the two comments before it don't really bring any impact to bear on the concept you're trying to emotionalize and/or drive home.
That's probably because you're not French.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:I know some Moroccans in Israel, and they speak (if they know how to,) Arabic so differently (maybe because they were the local Jews), that it's impossible for the Muslims here to understand the Jews [from] there.
There are 4 muslim girls in my French class - 3 Moroccans and one Palestinian. She can't understand a thing they say and talks to them in English or French.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
That is entirely possible.
-Trevor
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
You should hear Welsh/Scottish Highlnders and Alaskans!
AAAA.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
That was my exact reaction JH. I could pronounce the first two words but had no idea what they meant. But I'm terrible at Arabic so I thought it was my fault. Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I purposely solicited a Moroccan translator, because that was my target audience (North African French). So yeah - my incomprehensibility was intentional. Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I wonder which Arabic they teach in American schools. Egyptian? Iraqi?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I suspect it would depend on the school.
-Trevor
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Do they teach Arabic in American schools?
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
American universities.
The Arabic program here is run through a partnership with a Moroccan University, so I'm pretty sure they learn incomprehensible jabber.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Yup, I guess so...
You know, I just thought of it: the root <'Ain>.Reish.Beit ('A.R.B) means a few things:
When you think of it, the west/evening bit is with a 'Gain (damn you, translieracy!), whereas Arabs is 'Ain; in Hebrew, though, they merged. But how come one root means several things? Is it so in Arabic too?
Jonny
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Fusha and amiyya. Written and Egyptian. The reasoning I got was that Egypt is the Hollywood of the middle east, so anyone who watches television or watches movies can understand it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"That's probably because you're not French."
*blink* Annie, are you French? Or are you telling someone that they don't understand a poster that you, a non-Frenchwoman, made on behalf of a French minority, because they are no more French than you are? Posted by jehovoid (Member # 2014) on :
Who would pass up an opportunity to use the word francophile? Harry Caray would probably consider himself a francophile.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:You should hear Welsh/Scottish Highlnders and Alaskans!
Alaskans? What have we to do with it?
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Very different accents.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: You know, I just thought of it: the root <'Ain>.Reish.Beit ('A.R.B) means a few things:
When you think of it, the west/evening bit is with a 'Gain (damn you, translieracy!), whereas Arabs is 'Ain; in Hebrew, though, they merged. But how come one root means several things? Is it so in Arabic too?
I only know how the words are related in Hebrew. The primary meaning of the shoresh ערב is mixture, I believe.
"West" is the part of the sky where dark and light mix during dusk -- בין הערבים. And Arabs lived to the west of Israel.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
I thought - as a matter of fact - that Arabs lived to the southeast of Judea; you know, Nabbatea, Idumea and stuff. But even then, the letter used, by the Arabs, was a(n) Ain! Do Ain and 'Gain count as the same letter originally, in 2nd-Templed Jerusalem period?
Jonny
[ December 14, 2004, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
No clue. I speak and can read absolutely 0 Arabic. Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
[random comments]
Speaking of the French...
Has anyone here ever done a search on Google for French military victories?
I typed it in and clicked the "I'm feeling lucky" button, and this is what I got.
[/random comments]
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Cause that Napoleon fellow couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Annie, you care about what is happening in France. That makes you a French-lover. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
[random thought comment]
Eruve Nandiriel. You're hilarious! Or, rather, more accurately, Google is hilarious!
[/radom thought comment]
[even more random thought]
Did you know the only country to ever defeat the US in a war was Canada? Yup. 1812. We even burned down the White House. But it was so boring we turned around and went home.
{/even more random thought]
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
'Course, Canada didn't really exist in 1812, the confederation of the first four provinces not happening until 1867. So it was really the British who won that. Not that I don't take credit for it as well
Although, it was by no means the route that most people like to think it was.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
Annie, if your opinion is that, it's your right. And you like speak in french, don't you ? Tu as écrit beaucoup de message en Français avec un plaisir bien visible. We have a thing we always respect here in my country : The liberty of opinion. It's for this reason we discuss all the time. It's our latin side.
For the google research about french victories, it's funny ! But we can read :
in the bottom of the page... no comment.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
quidscribbis, what is your Latin side?
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Sure. It's not the first time someone does this kind of humour. If I remember well, the last one was about George W Bush, you got his moepage while typing "horrible mistakes" or something like that.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:Very different accents.
Compared to what? It's not like we even have our own accent. Alaska's history as an American region is too brief, and our population too much in constant flux (people are always moving in from elsewhere and moving away to elsewhere), for us to have developed our own regional speech.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
People move in and out of New York. And yet, in 80 years, there are those who can definitely distinguish a Brooklyn accent from a New Jersey accent.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Annie your poster is awesome.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: Do Ain and 'Gain count as the same letter originally, in 2nd-Templed Jerusalem period?
Wow, I knew exactly what you were talking about. I'm the coolest.
don't know the answer to your question, though.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The French picked up an unfairly deserved reputation during the World Wars 1 and 2 and has very little to do with their military traditions.
As pointed out earlier, Napolean's run at history should make that point clear.
-Trevor
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
quote:People move in and out of New York. And yet, in 80 years, there are those who can definitely distinguish a Brooklyn accent from a New Jersey accent.
First of all, New York has been a part of the United States since before there was a United States, giving plenty of time for a regional accent to develop.
Secondly, I would wager--though I don't know for a fact--that the percentage of people born in New York who stay in New York is greater than that for Alaska. (There may be more actual people leaving New York, but then, there are several times more actual people to choose from.) Therefore there's enough consistency for a regional accent, once developed, to stay largely in place.
Thirdly, mobility was not as great in the past as it is today. What that means for New York is that there was plenty of time for these accents to develop in an era before there were so many people moving in and out. Alaska has not been inhabited by large numbers of English-speakers long enough to be comparable to New York.
Fourthly, you can argue all you want for why Alaska should have a regional accent. That won't change the fact that we don't. And since we've come into the age of advanced mobility and mass media without one, I don't think we're likely to develop one now, either.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:The French picked up an unfairly deserved reputation during the World Wars 1 and 2 and has very little to do with their military traditions.
As pointed out earlier, Napolean's run at history should make that point clear.
'zactly. And we don't want to bring up the Battle of Hastings, do we? Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Anyway, do you really think its military victories does the greatness of a nation ?
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
I want to quote a major war book : The Art of war writen by Sun Tzu. "Military engagement is the last of things to process". I quote from my memory and my translation is not the best.
Military engagement can offer the victory but for a very high cost.
Personnaly, I think war reduce the highness of a nation. Look at the colonial war in Algery for France or The actual Iraq War for USA. We also live in the looking of others. So, with such of attitude, others reduce their opinion about this countries to a lower scale.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I agree, Choobak.
And, on an entirely unrelated note:
I'm working on my final paper in French, which is on the symbol of Marianne. I keep running into the same problems with capitalization. In the following passage, for instance:
quote: "L'état, c'est moi," dit Louis XIV, et il avait, bien sûr beaucoup d'arrogance, mais aussi de raison. Dans l'ancien régime, l'État était personnifié par le Roi.
Do I capitalize l'État? Do I capitalize Roi? And if, later, I'm talking about la Reine, do I capitalize that? Also, earlier in the paper, I said:
quote: Le nom Marie-Anne combine Marie, le nom de la Vierge, avec Anne, le nom de sa mère, Sainte Anne. Au XVIIIème siècle, c'était les paysans qui préféraient les prénoms des Saints qui sont les objets de dévotion. Les Marie, les Anne, les Madeleine, les Jean-Baptiste, les Paul, sont souvent des paysans. C'étaient les aristocrates, les élites, et parfois les bourgeois, qui essayaient de se distinguer en adoptant les prénoms comme Hercule, Hélène, ou Alexandre.
Should I have capitalized Saints? Or only when it's part of a name like Sainte-Anne? Also, did I do correctly in making the plurals of names in saying "les Jean-Baptiste"?
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
If I'm correct, there's no rules of capitalization when you speak of saints or kings. Capitalization is a respect mark, if you put it fine, if you don't, fine too (at last in France, I don't know where your teacher is from). You would indeed shock people by not capitalizing God, for exemple. Your plural of Jean-Baptiste seems fine to me. We never pluralize names.
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
I agree with Anna about capitalization and plural. Just help you : Add a "," after "bien sûr" to help the reader to breathe. And others points : You can repeat "beaucoup" after "de raison", if it's what you mean. Or if you think he was more "arrogant" than "raisonnable", you can turn into "Il avait, bien sûr, beaucoup d'arrogance, mais aussi de la raison." then prefer to write "Pendant l'ancien régime". In English, you use "during" which is translated by "pendant". And to finish with your interesting text (I really think that ! ), prefer write "des objets de dévotion" because... I try to search a good explanation... It sound like better ? I can find better... mmh... "les" indicate a way to show the thing exactly, in his "all". "Des" explain a part. Anna, can you help me, please ?
Just i would notice your french is very good. You use perfectly "^" on "sûr" and all my remarks are to "smooth" your text. Beautiful !
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
quote:You should hear Welsh/Scottish Highlnders and Alaskans!
I have no idea about Alaskans. But what kind of amuses me is that sometimes foreign immigrants here (New Jersey) can't understand what I say. They can understand a New Jersey accent, but not mine, which is a sort of blend of Pittsburghese, Appalachian, and Pennsylvania Dutch.
[ December 16, 2004, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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That's what I would've said I had I been there anyways...![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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