My wife signed us up with Parents As Teachers, an excellent early learing, parental involvement organization to help parents teach thier children beyond the confines of the classroom.
As far as I know it does not have a religious agenda, though I may be wrong. I thought it was more a public service, based out of the local school districts.
This evening they held their annual Christmas Party at the local public elementary school. There was Santa and games and door prizes and a lot of fun.
It ended with a "Story Teller."
This gentleman got up, after Santa had left, and began telling a story.
He was not very good. He didn't have any props, or make any fun sound effects to keep the interest of the children. He only asked a few questions to the kids, and they were ones who's answers were unimportant and were quickly forgotton.
In other words, he talked down to the kids, and did so boringly.
I often consider adding Story Telling to my repitoire of entertainment credits. This fellow made that seem more plausible. How did he get a job as a story teller?
Because he was free. He had a message to deliver.
I'll try to do a better job at telling his story.
The story revolves around a little boy named Tommy. Tommy lived outside of the small town where the school is located, and he lived many years ago, before TV and before computers.
To him, the greatest excitement to come his way was the announced arrival of The Circus. Now Tommy's parents didn't have a lot of money. They gave him a nickel every week for allowance, if Tommy did his chores.
Tommy did his chores, and he did extra chores, and he worked real hard and was a real, real good boy.
All he wanted to do was to go to the circus.
Finally, the big day came. The circus was in town. Tommy got up early, and ran about doing his chores. He worked hard so he could be done early.
Then he went to his daddy and said, "Daddy. I am going to the circus now. Can I have my allowance?"
Hi daddy reached into his pocket and pulled out a shiny silver dollar. Tommy had never had a silver dollar before. "Take this with you to the circus, and have fun," his father said with a big smile.
Tommy said, "Thank you." He gave his daddy a big hug, then ran all the way to town.
Now Tommy had never been to the circus before, so he didn't quite know what to expect. He knew there would be animals and clowns and wonderous acts. That's what the signs had promised. Tommy just wasn't sure what that all meant.
Tommy came around the corner and he saw all the people of the town lined up along the road. As he got closer he heard loud heart pumping music coming from a giant pipe-organ on wheels.
Then a group of musicians marched by playing even more music.
Then came wagons of animals. There were lions and tigers, and tall, tall, giraffes. There were even a group of elephants all together nose to tail as if they were holding hands.
There were beautiful people in fancy sparkling clothes, some jumping about doing flips and strange things. Others just walked proudly in capes and flashy tights.
His favorite were the clowns. Some with big noses, some with small noses, all laughing and joking, and behaving in the most silly of ways.
For what seemed like hours, but was only 20 to 30 minutes, Tommy watched the circus parade, and was very happy. As it ended there came a man with a big bucket on wheels and pushing his broom.
Tommy reached into his pocket and found that wonderful silver dollar. He ran to this man, gave him the silver dollar. He said, "Thank you. The circus was wonderful." Then he ran home to tell his father all about the circus.
But he hadn't been to the circus.
He had only been to the parade.
Wasn't Tommy a silly boy?
Isn't this a sad story?
Don't be like Tommy.
Many people are like Tommy when it comes to Christmas. They see the gifts and the lights, the songs and Santa, and they think that is Christmas.
They are wrong. That is just the parade.
Christmas is a birthday party for a very special person. Its Jesus Christ's birthday. I want all of you to remember that, and remember to wish him a happy birthday at Christmas, ok....
That was the story he told.
At first I was upset. You can't tell a story like that at public school function. It is promoting a Christian doctrine. That is worse than generic "Prayer" in school. Its teaching kids to be good Christians.
Some would say that of course you have to talk about Christ, it is a Christmas Party.
If it were called a Holiday Party, those same people would complain about it being PC.
However, before my dander got too worked up, a couple things about the story struck me.
Tommy was happy with the parade. He considered his money well spent. He was not a loser, nor was his silly. He may have been ignorant, but that is curable.
Sure, he could have got more for his money, but that isn't important if he is satisfied.
Secondly, I wonder if the story teller is not also seeing the parade instead of the circus.
He talks about wishing Jesus Christ a happy birthday.
The Philosophy of Jesus Christ does not ask for adulation, or obiediance. It asks for treating others as you would wish to be treated. It asks for honesty. It asks for love and peace and sacrifice for the good of others.
That is the circus, the true wonder and beauty.
All Mr. Story-teller requests is lip service and adulation. He speaks of none of these things. He talks in parables, badly.
I am still debating find out who this Story Teller is and confronting him, but now I am unsure. Should I complain about his bringing religion into the school grounds, or should I complain about him doing it poorly?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Why can't you do both? Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That is what I was thinking...
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
For awhile I thought the story was going to be about how you don't have to see the circus to be happy or something like that.
I would vote for both.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Well the story was a very bad story for the moral he wanted to convey, but if you take it further, you could say the child stopped when he found something he liked, but if he'd pursued it further then he would've been well rewarded, and that's the tradgedy, kind of an opportunity cost thing, but like I said, it wasn't really well designed to convey his moral.
However...
quote:The Philosophy of Jesus Christ does not ask for adulation, or obiediance. It asks for treating others as you would wish to be treated. It asks for honesty. It asks for love and peace and sacrifice for the good of others.
It actually does ask for obiediance, and the foundation of Christ's doctrine, at least as I follow it, isn't beeing nice to your neighbor or being chariatable, the foundation is achieving exultation through accepting Christ as your Savoir. Now of course He described how you should do this, and charity, loving thy neighbor, those were top on His list of "coming unto" Him certainly.
Hobbes Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Giving money to strangers isn't in the Christmas spirit because Christmas is about ones faith in the love of Jesus.
[ December 02, 2004, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Tommy was happy with the parade. He considered his money well spent. He was not a loser, nor was his silly. He may have been ignorant, but that is curable.
I think one of the serious evils in the world is how little people expect out of it and are satisfied with. And I don't mean in a material sense.
The parade does not approach the reality of the circus. By spending the dollar on the parade, he was unable to get into the circus to see the real show. Similarly, people allow themselves to get sidetracked by desires which prevent them from experiencing joy. And they don't even know what they're missing, nor what they're really seeking. The devil hates true pleasure, and does his worst work by corrupting the pleasures we seek.
Not that I think the story teller was even comprehending this point. But I think it's important.
Dagonee
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
That's not such a bad moral, it's just too bad that Tommy's mistake was giving money to the janitor. I think it would have been worse to have hole in his pocket or something.
[ December 02, 2004, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yes, it would be better if he had not used a janitor, giving it to a rich man on the curb who had nothing to do with the circus to remove any aspect of charity from giving the dollar.
Dagonee
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I think you misunderstood me, Irami, my point was that Christ's central message wasn't to be nice to people, that was one of the very important off-shoots of His message. Giving money to those in need is a very Christian thing to do, it just shouldn't be the center of the Gospel, Christ is the center, lending a helping hand is serving Him; that was kind of my point.
Hobbes Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I know, Hobbes. And that's where the problems start.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
In fact, I think I'd prefer the story if someone at the end of the parade lied to the kid and charged him a dollar.
It's a stupid story about Christmas. It could be a great story about other things.
Dagonee
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Which problems?
Hobbes Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
It reminds me of a terribly sad Asian (Buddhist, I believe) parable I heard once.
There was once a very very foolish man. He would always give away anything he had. The people around him knew this, and would mercilessly take from him, so he had nothing.
One day he went on a journey. He was walking along on his way out of town when one of the townspeople came up to him and asked him if he had any food. He graciously and happily gave him his lunch.
Then another villager came up and asked him if she could have his shirt. He graciously gave it to her.
The same thing happened with his pants, shoes and the rest of his supplies.
He walked naked into the forest, which was full of monsters and then the monsters, having heard of him, asked if they could have his arms, legs, and then his body.
The last monster came up to him as he was just a head and asked for his eyes. And after he took them, he said, "Here, take this." and gave him a slip of paper.
The man began to cry, saying that he was so, so happy, because he'd never been given anything before in his life.
He was so grateful, but without eyes he couldn't see that the paper only said one thing on it, "Fool."
I read it in my Religions of East Asia class and then saw it again on Inu Yasha. The sad part is that I never really understood what the story meant.
Anyway, now that I'm off my tangent, I think you're right. It doesn't make sense for him to tell that story about Christianity in a secular school. Regardless of his views and whether we disagree with what he said, it just didn't seem like a good story to tell to kids.
Posted by Zamphyr (Member # 6213) on :
Gah! I've seen this before...I'm pretty sure Libertarians use this same story to make some kind of point.
Obviously, it was lost on me....
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
If I had been to that I would have been incensed on three counts:
First is the aspect of religion. The solely religious meaning of Christmas, in my opinion, does not belong in schools, especially where many of the children do not celebrate Christmas or do not Celebrate it in the Christian sense. You can talk about the old-fashioned meaning of Christmas without turning it into a very badly-executed and misguided quasi-sermon.
The second, and perhaps the biggest problem I have is that of the story- such a violent story to tell children who only want to be made to laugh. It's a Christmas party, not a chance for a morality speech. I might even be happy with a secular retelling of Jesus' birth- after all, I was brought up with it and still enjoy hearing it at Christmas. What the story teller was telling was not a story it was totally inappropriate.
The third count would be as to who had hired this "story" teller. Did they know the content of the story?
I would definately contact the school with my questions and complaints.
EDIT: I am not attacking the morality of the speech, I know nothing about these things have my own ideas and totally respect others, but I feel there is a time and a place and this was not at all it.
[ December 03, 2004, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
As a preacher, I'm offended that Dan and Teshi think that was a sermon.
Sermon writing is an artform. As is storytelling. Regurgitating pulp is neither.
[ December 03, 2004, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I've used sermon or sermonizing in a derogatory fashion. Is that what you guys meant?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm sorry I offended you, dkw ; I am inexperienced in the ways of the church. Of course I did not mean that this was at all representative of a true sermon.
I have edited my post to reflect a more sensitive and educated viewpoint. Please tell me if this acceptable.
I apologise once again.
[ December 03, 2004, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Oh gosh Teshi, no sad faces. That “offended” was at least half tongue-in-cheek. I’m used to people using “sermon” and “preaching” as insults, and I’m certainly not mad at either you or Dan. This just seemed like a good time to point out that those terms also have a real meaning, which happens to refer to something I do on a regular basis.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Although it may have been tongue-in-cheek it was nevertheless very wrong of me to use it without thinking.
You are quite right to be insulted.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Dan, is this through the public school (I know it was at the school building, but is the Parents as Teachers program through the public school?)? If so, then I think it's inappropriate.
Admittedly, I'm not at all objective about this. One of the things we're working on in Hebrew School right now is why we don't celebrate Christmas. It is incredibly difficult for the children, especially since we have such a small Jewish community here. Christmas is a confusing and painful time for Jewish children (and other non-Christian children, I imagine, but I have first-hand knowledge of how it affects Jewish children). Why should their parents be excluded from a wonderful program like Parents as Teachers? I realize that they're not technically, officially excluded, but a Christmas party with Santa is not a function they would want to bring their children to. Is it fair that these parents and kids should be excluded from a public school function?
It really makes me exasperated when people object to having holiday parties, instead of Christmas parties, in contexts like public schools and workplaces. How does prevent them from celebrating Christmas? If it makes non-Christians feel more comfortable, then what's the harm? Why is it so important that Christmas be celebrated in public schools - is it not enough to celebrate it at home and church and in every single store and office building and park?
[ December 03, 2004, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Mrs.M ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Bring back Midwinters celebrations, that's what I say!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote: The sad part is that I never really understood what the story meant.
I have heard something like that myself, and to me the point of the story was that the man was a fool for a couple of reasons, and even with his eyes he couldn't see that.
He was a fool for thinking of himself so little, and for thinking too many unfoundedly good things about others even when they were robbing him blind. He was a fool for allowing even the animals to eat his body. Most of all he was a fool for being so happy with so little when he originaly had so much more, and because the only thing he had been given was somting that he no longer had any use for or ability to make use of, and he had no one to blame fir that but himself...not the animals or his friends and neighbors.
[ December 03, 2004, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I would report it to the School Board and let them take care if it, at least the part about making sure religion isn't being taught in a public school...or at least it isn't the only one being taught.
Kwea
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I think the story is trying to prove that God and his servants are unjust louts for taking a child's money and not telling him, 'Hey, kid, the real show's inside.'
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"He was a fool for thinking of himself so little, and for thinking too many unfoundedly good things about others..."
Which is why I've always disliked that particular parable, because "thinking little of yourself and thinking good things about other people" makes up about 50% of my definition of goodness.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Becoming a storyteller isn't all that hard - if you have the talent and the desire to do a whole lot of research and a lot of practice but it's really hard to break into it as a paying gig. Usually professional storytellers start by giving their services away for free, building a reputation and a portfolio full of recommendations and references, and then beginning to charge for their services. Good ones can get decent money for their time, but only after years of paying their dues.
I was offered a paying job as a part-time story teller, but I was lucky - I had a friend who had major connections at the public library and could vouch for me. I couldn't take it anyway, because there was too much travel and I was home with my kids, but it would have been nice. For that job, I would have been making roughly $10 per hour, plus reimbursement for mileage. That's a small fraction of what an accomplished storyteller could charge, but then again I had no experience or reputation to pull from. It would have been a good dues paying job, though, if I could have taken it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
The point of that parable is that, like anything, too much of those qualities is as bad as too little of them. If you expect so little from others after giving so much then you are a fool.
Keep in mind that this isn't about Christmas giving, or gift exchanges...it is about people who respect themselves so little that they don't demand common cortesey and respect form others, things that all people deserve. The moral isn't that Scorrge was rught, or that giving is a bad thing, but that there is a level or respect for oneself that is necessary for dignity and human life, and that any person who doesn't ask for that level or respect is a fool for tolerating less.
Kwea
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Maybe it's 'cuz I'm about to finish Black House but
quote:The moral isn't that Scorrge was rught
strikes me as something Mr. Munshun might say.
Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
Scott
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Coulda just as easily ended it with "The moral of the story is that you shouldn't pay so much attention to the pagentry of Christmas cuz the real payoff is getting presents."
Let's get a bit real, the parade is the important part. It tells ya that the world really is bigger than your everyday surroundings. Ya can always see the circus later. What one learns on the journey to reach the goal is the important part: the goal is merely an excuse, an incentive to make the journey. If ya reach the goal and don't set a new one, all you're doin' is admitting you're dead and wasting resources while awaiting burial.
Similarly, the Christmas pagentry is the important part. It tells ya that the world can be a brighter and more pleasant place if people will make the effort. And whether or not "christian"s wanna admit it, that was Jesus' message: we can make the world a brighter and more pleasant place. Anybody who wants to self-aggrandize themselves as the "best Jesus worshipper" ain't no Christian.
[ December 03, 2004, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:And whether or not "christian"s wanna admit it, that was Jesus' message: we can make the world a brighter and more pleasant place.
What is with this determined tendency to tell people what they believe?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
I dunno, why do "christian"s insist they have a right to define what Christians believe?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Because they are one? Why do you have a right to define what aspectre believes?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Sorry, "The World sucks, always will suck, and ritual worship is the only way to get out of this sucky world. And I hope that everyone else goes to Hell." ain't being Christian.
[ December 03, 2004, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:"The World sucks, always will suck, and ritual worship is the only way to get out of this sucky world. And I hope that everyone else goes to Hell." ain't being Christian.
Good thing very few, if any, people calling themselves Christian actually think that.
Dagonee
[ December 03, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I thoguht the story was so sweet--until the point the storyteller says the child is a fool. The child did not have anyone ask him for money. The child, out of the gratitude of his heart, offered the money to someone who participated in the event.
I thought that was going to BE the message of the story. Enjoy life, be grateful, and try not to take advantage of people. You don't need commercialization [paying for candy, pomp, and rides] to be happy. And then he calls the child a fool? I think the storyteller is the fool!
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
Christmahaunakwansicamadan, the mulitdenominational winter holiday . It's almost like Festivus, the holiday for the rest-of-us.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Hooray!
Now if only I could say it...
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
You know the Bhuddist parable always has made sense to me. It's very Jesus-like really. Bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those that despitefully use you.
If giving things away to help other people, made him happy, and he died happy then he lived a good life. He was far more noble than the people around him. It was those that took advantage of his naieveness that were the awful people. The "fool" condemnation was actually a reflection of the people who gave the paper to him, not of the man himself. This man should no more have been taken advantage of, than someone with downs syndrome should have been. He was a martyr and the people were evil. His reward for being pure in heart was that he died happy anyway.
AJ
[ December 03, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
The real atrocity here is that he used the name "Tommy" for the child in the story. Anyone who tells a story involving children and names them Timmy, Johnny, Bobby, or Sally hasn't read anything more advanced than Dick and Jane and thinks that you must talk down to children and use cutesy diminutive names even though that hasn't been the case in over 20 years. Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:And whether or not "christian"s wanna admit it, that was Jesus' message: we can make the world a brighter and more pleasant place.
No, it really wasn't, that was I would agree, a major theme in his teaching, but it wasn't his message. The "good word of the gospel" isn't that we can be nice to each other, it's that through Christ we can be forgiven of our sins and recieve exaltation.
Annie, that's how I was always able to tell what happened in story land and what happened in the real world when I was a little kid, in story world the kids all had names like "little Jimmy".
Hobbes Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Like The Giving Tree. I love that book. The Tree is not foolish at all. It is the boy who was foolish. Until he became old. Then I like to think he found wisdom. Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
All I remember about that book is that I loved it, but now I can't remember the story!
Hobbes Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Hmm.
I dislike the Giving Tree, because it implies that the boy is foolish to go out and live an actual life.
Plus, the tree is truly creepy-- I mean, why is it so obsessed with this child?
brr.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Scott, the Tree is the Divine Feminine, the World Tree. She gives because that is her nature. She loves, because she believes in the boy. He takes advantage because he is oblivious to who and what the Tree is. I think it's a great parable about humanity and the natural world.
The Buddhist parable is lovely. Many different layers. The best interpretation I have for it, though, is to be careful and not give too much of yourself away.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
If I were a kid listening to the story, I would have wondered how that kid expected to pay today's circus admissions with one lousy dollar. Also, all that work for ONE lousy dollar!
Sheesh.
-Katarain
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Well, here's a real circus story for y'all.
Once upon a time there was a family that had five children. They were a hard working family, and had enough to eat, a roof over their heads, decent clothes, and opportunities for such things as basic education and owning their own "mom-and-pop" business.
Better yet, they lived just a few blocks away from the annual circus. Every year, this circus came to town.
Sadly, the admission prices for a family of five were beyond their means.
Yet, they were able to barter for their admission.
The day before the circus, the entire family would show up at the site and help set up tents and chairs and do other chores - and in this way earn their admission tickets.
They considered this a great opportunity and blessing.
Unfortunately, due to rising insurance costs, litigation fees, sue-crazy people and legal beagles looking to make a buck, circuses can no longer allow hard-working families the opportunity to help set up or tear down for the price of admission.
Any stabs at the moral of that story, folks?
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Thank goodness we have lawyers to protect us from them shifty circus folk? Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
I find the different interpretations of the Tommy story very interesting. Everybody seems to be interpreting the circus as the greater fulfillment/ happiness and the parade as the lesser. Dan Raven seems to think that Tommy was right to find fulfillment in the parade and stop there without searching for greater fulfillment. Dagonee seems to think that Tommy settled and missed out on the greater fulfillment and that this is truly sad. Aspectre seems to think that the journey to the circus (fulfillment) is what's truly important. Please correct me if my interpretations of your statements are incorrect.
What I find most interesting about the Tommy parable is that Tommy doesn't know that there is greater fulfillment than the parade. He believes he has already found the great end. So is he wrong to accept this end and find fulfillment as he can? If he keeps looking and finds the Great Circus and discovers that it completes him in a way he couldn't have expected, then clearly it was worth it for him to keep searching.
But what if there is no circus? What if he fails to appreciate the parade in its fullness because he keeps looking for an even greater circus that doesn't exist? Or what if he finds the circus but isn't sure that it's the Ultimate Circus, thinking that perhaps there's even greater fulfillment out there than what he's found? Is his whole life spend in vain trying to find this circus that may not exist and even if it does, he might not recognize it as such? Or is it as aspectre said that the journey to find the circus is in and of itself the worthwhile end?
Furthermore, what if he's aware of all of these possiblities... Is it worth the gamble to try and find the circus, even though it may not exist? Or is it better to forego the agony of the search and just accept the fulfillment offered by the parade?
Just some thoughts.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Tommy's cousin Lou missed the parade, but found his way to the circus. Unfortunately the tent caught fire and Lou and 57 other people burned to a horrible death.
Nah, not a good story either.
I am sorry I used the term "Sermon" in this title. Would poorly Christianized parable be a better phrase?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Scott, the Tree is the Divine Feminine, the World Tree.
Even creepier. Who wants to sit under a tree that the All-father hung on? Where's the spear through the center? Where's the serpent at the root?
Then again-- serpents, spears, and undead, blood-thirsty, one-eyed gods. Hey, perfect environment for a growing boy. Wonder why he left.
You sure you want to call it a world tree, Jenny?
quote:She gives because that is her nature. She loves, because she believes in the boy. He takes advantage because he is oblivious to who and what the Tree is. I think it's a great parable about humanity and the natural world.
Yeah, he should have said, 'Thanks for the wood!'
Brat.
Posted by babager (Member # 6700) on :
I have a more blatent example, and I will call this a sermon because that is what it was. Last year my son's high school in Minnesota hired a band to come in and play as a school assembly. I guess it was all pretty cool for the kids, they had beach balls that were being tossed around the bleachers, the whole nine yards. When I picked up my son from school he handed me a Christian Tract. When I asked him where he got it he told me that the band handed them out to everyone at the assembly. I read through the tract and it was all about accepting Jesus as your Savior. I asked about the band and the assembly and found out that it was a Christian band that played all Christian songs, and at the end of the concert the leader of the band gave his testimonial and shared the Christian plan for salvation.
Now let me say up front that I am a Christian, but I feel strongly about separation of church and state. So this whole thing greatly offended me(not to mention that there was a large Muslim community at the school) I really debated whether or not to say anything to the school. I know that I would have been in the right to do so but I did not want to cause any more problems for my son. I had already had several run-ins with the school--but that is a story for another post someday . So I just let it slip and I am sure that they will probably do it again, if we were still up there I don't think I could let it pass a second time.
[ December 06, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: babager ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
If that was a public high school, the school was idiotic -- the situation you described is lawsuit city.
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; I am inexperienced in the ways of the church. Of course I did not mean that this was at all representative of a true sermon. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Scott
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