Okay. A distant relative of mine died last week. These are people that I’ve supposedly met as a small child, but I don’t know them. I’ve never spoken to them that I remember, but they remember me from when I was little. My mother called and gave me this man’s widow’s phone number and said, “You should call her.”
I told her no offense, but I didn’t really want to call this lady that I do not know. I had barely even heard her name before this instance. It would be obviously contrived for me to call her, since I would have never spoken to her before that day. I didn’t see any reason for me to call her. I don’t even think the man that died was technically related to me by blood. They are basically strangers.
So 24 hours later I get a call from Mom, saying that she told Kathleen I wanted to call her and that Mom had given me her number. She made it sound like I had asked for the number in my concerned state. She told me that Kathleen was looking forward to my call.
There’s no way I would have called this woman on my own terms. I am sorry she lost her husband but she wouldn’t even have known who I was if I had called and said, “This is Maureen.” I would have to explain whose child I was, and all that stuff. But now I feel obligated to call because I don’t want this poor lady to be expecting my call and be disappointed when I don’t.
This wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t a pattern. Mom always does stuff like this to me. I know that if I call this woman, Mom will see that her technique still works and continue to use it in the future. However, if I don’t call she will likely never use it again because she doesn’t like to be made to look bad. She doesn’t like to be considered a liar.
So not calling would probably get me out from Mom’s thumb somewhat, but it would also leave a sad lady who doesn’t really need any more sadness. Calling would make Kathleen a little happier, but it will guarantee that Mom will do this to me again, or even worse.
What would you do?
[ November 27, 2004, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by Jar Head (Member # 7018) on :
It is a formal call of condolence, one of life's unpleasant duties. I think it is appalling that your mother still has manipulate you into doing unpleasant grown-up tasks. It shows that you still need a mother very much. Make the call and do your best to offer sincere sympathy and then go grow up a bit.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
So can I assume that you make sure to call people down the street that you don't even know when they have unfortunate events?
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
PSI, ignore him... he's proven himself to be immature and insensitive in more threads than one. He doesn't deserve your attention.
Your situation is a tough one... I don't know what to tell you. I think I would make the call, but I think you need to have a talk with your mother. Tell her that this is what she's doing, and how much it's bothering you. But I agree that now it's a bit late not to call Kathleen... I'm sorry.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ah, thanks Raia. I had not had the pleasure of making meeting Jar Head yet.
Your advice is good. I'm considering it. In other words, I am beating myself mentally to force myself to do this thing. : )
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
If what your mother said was true, you probably need to call because now she is expecting your call. However, a short "We were so sorry to hear about your loss, where can I send flowers." would be sufficient. Then do send some card or flowers.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My major concern here is that talking to my mother does not work. Yelling, screaming, ignoring, being sweet, being respectful...none of those things phase her as long as you're doing what she wants. I can talk to her all I want and she'll smile and say, "I'll consider that. I never thought about it like that before. Thanks for telling me." and she's really nice about it, but next time she will do the exact same thing. That's what's frustrating about her. She acts like she's listening. It would be easier if she would argue, because then I wouldn't have to feel so bad about not answering her calls and things.
I'm calling Kathleen. But at this point I think I need advice on how to get away from my mother.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Do you have any siblings? If so, do they have similar problems with her?
Maybe if you all talked to her together... would that help?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
No siblings. She would probably be less controlling if I had some.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Don't tell your mother that you called, and if she asks, tell her you will not be manipulated into anything and she shouldn't have spoken for you. She won't talk to the woman to make sure you called, right?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yes, she will.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Ok, if no siblings... how about your dad?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My parents are divorced, partly because she pulled the same crap on him. He's been trying to get her to stop for the past twenty-five years.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
*wince*
Hmm...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The title of this thread implies you don't resent your mother's handling of things enough to want it to stop completely. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Fine, I will fix it. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ouch. I'd send a card, and mention that you are sorry for her loss, and leave it at that. If this poor lady is upset you didn't call, it's not your fault, it's your mom's. If your mom brings it up to you, it's the perfect time to ask her not to do that again.
It's rough, but you have to be firm. Tell her that you value having a continued relationship with her, but it won't happen if she doesn't stop trying to manipulate you. Be pretty straight with her; it's better to get this over with now than have a lifetime of hurt. *knows from experience*
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Stop your other?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*grin* You, of course, always always welcome and it's great to ask for advice for things, but I think independence is one of the things that will only happen when you want it enough to not ask for permission for it from anyone.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
PSI, I doubt Kathleen is sitting waiting for your call - as you said, she doesn't know you, and you're not likely to be at the top of her thoughts right now. In similar situations I dreaded hearing from people with a similar or even less remote relationship than you have. Speaking on the phone was difficult - talking to strangers even more so.
I would send a nice condolence card, so Kathleen can know you have sympathy without having to "perform" when you call her.
Tell your mother what you did, and emphasize that any awkwardness that might occur is the direct result of your mother's lying (you can pick a less combative term if you want).
The only way out of this is to simply let your mother refuse to obligate you, and the only way to do that is to do what you would have done absent her interference. This means sometimes doing what she's attempting to manipulate you to do, if that's what you would have done. It also means letting your mother bear the brunt of any confusion that results when you don't follow her lead.
If someone ever says, "I thought you were going to do X," simply say, "I don't know why my mother told you that." It's rough, but you have to rely on your own judgment. Otherwise, you will eventually cause someone unintended pain in a situation where you knew better than your mother.
Dagonee Edit: ketchupqueen is wise, and a faster typer than I.
[ November 27, 2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Rather than calling this Kathleen (who, face it, doesn't know you either, and probably would appreciate your call but is hardly going to be devastated if you don't), call your mother and say "Mom, I honestly don't know why you do this. But this time, I'm not doing it. I don't know this woman, and while I am sympathetic, I have nothing of any value to say to her. If you'd like to give me her address, I'd be happy to send her a card. In the meantime, please don't commit me for anything in the future without consulting me first, because I guarantee I will not do it. Even if I would have wanted to do it had you consulted me." Then stick to your guns.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The only danger with the never do what the mother commits is that this gives the mother a sure-fire way to prevent her from doing something.
I don't know if that would be an issue, but manipulative people are generally good at it and use any tool available.
Dagonee
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
See, I generally try to do what I would have done anyway, but I felt bad for Kathleen. I really don't know how she'll feel if I don't call. I can't imagine that she'd get any benefit from it. I'd hate for her to think I was the one lying though.
quote: I think independence is one of the things that will only happen when you want it enough to not ask for permission for it from anyone.
I don't see that I'm asking permission. I was trying to figure out if it was worth it to hurt the lady to achieve that end. I see a difference.
[ November 27, 2004, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'll bet Kathleen forgot that part of the conversation 30 seconds after it happened. She's definitely not waiting around for you to call her. This is a much bigger deal to you and your mom than to her, I think.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
That's the problem with fighting your mom. While you and she may know the truth, others will see things as your mother paints them.
(edit: That was to PSI's comment, not Kat's)
[ November 27, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Raia ]
Posted by DocCoyote (Member # 5612) on :
I think the condolence card is a much better idea than a call to someone you don't know. I agree with the others who said that Kathleen really won't miss a call from you, but will really appreciate a note.
I don't much care for speaking to anyone on the phone when I'm really upset.
L
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
You are probably right, Kat.
Posted by jmj (Member # 7061) on :
What a tough situation.... I don't know how you are with awkward situations with total- or near- strangers, but I would definitely send a card. Or can you leave a message when you know she'll be out (like at the wake or funeral)?
The really difficult thing I'm getting about the situation with your mother is that there are no other people close enough to give you additional insight (or to help take the pressure off). Good luck.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I'm going to go with Dag's suggestion. Make a gesture of sympathy to Kathleen in your choice of formats - card, call, whatever - because that is appropriate given the circumstances. I'm not sure if I would confront Mom and tell her what you did or if I would just drop it until Mom brings it up again (and I get the feeling from your posts that she will).
Since both your father and you have been trying to deal with this behavior from her for your entire life, it's fairly apparent that she will never change. I might suggest complete avoidance for a time and see if that makes any difference at all. If nothing else, it would reduce your immediate stress level from her telling you what to do as if you don't know what needs to happen. At best, she may realize that things ahve changed and maybe be open to a real discussion of what's wrong.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Goody beat me to it.
My mother is the same way and it drives me insane - to the point I couldn't stand being in close proximity to her.
And while I do realize I'm treading on thin ice here, I'd suggest blocking her email and even blocking her telephone number.
After a month or so, unblock the number and explain exactly what you did and why.
If she persists, just leave her number blocked.
Of course, I'm not on speaking terms with either of my folks, so my slash-and-burn technique may be a tad drastic for what you want to accomplish.
-Trevor
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
You don't know that she doesn't remember you. Apparently your mom does know, I'd go with that; sidebaring any stupid feelings about your mom, none of that matters. Do you know how people are after family members die? You should seriously call her and talk to her anyways. I haven't known people that knew me when I was little, and MAN did it excite them to see how I was doing, and just to talk to them for 5-10 minutes. Five to ten minutes isn't a life sentance, and quite frankly I agree with JarHead.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I do know what family members are like after people die, and I was forced to talk to people I didn't know and put on a charade where I pretended to care when a random stranger who was never around when they were alive pretended to be sad they were gone. A card is fine, and that would be lovely.
[ November 27, 2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I'd go with Trevor's advice. Call the lady, but don't give your mother opportunity to pull this again. Tell her if she attempts to manipulate you again, you're perfectly willing to sever ties of communication with her.
Honestly, I see little reason for filial gratitude here. A parent is supposed to do what is best for their child, and this kind of manipulation doesn't fill her end of the bargain. If she tries to pull the guilt card, just remember that.
Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
Of course your mother told you Kathleen was looking forward to the call. She said it for one of two reasons -- as additional manipulation (my first guess) or because Kathleen is a very polite person and what else would she said about the child of someone she's talking to? What else would she say but "I'm looking forward to the call." That doesn't mean she even remembers the conversation now. I would definately go with the card. You can say something kind without putting pressure on her to have a conversation with someone she doesn't know. It also establishes your independence. And when Mom asks if you called or tries to manipulation you into other things always put it back on her. "Why would you think I would do that?" "Why would I bother someone I don't know?" "Why would you ask me such a personal question?" Then her motive (and her inappropriate behavior and rudeness)rather than your compliance are the topic of the conversation.
[ November 28, 2004, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: kacard ]
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Jar Head and rav, I disagree; I definitely know what family members are like after someone dies (unfortunately, I have had some very recent experience with the death of my fourteen year old cousin), and I know that people have other things on their mind. While I think that since her mom promised, PSI should do it this time, I don't think that you should be brushing the matter off like this. Today was my cousin's funeral, and several people came up to give me hugs and say "You don't remember me, I knew you when you were this tiny little redhead!! I'm so sorry for your loss, and this is a bad time to meet new people." While they acknowledged that it was a difficult time for everyone to start trying to remember each other, it still got very frustrating when I was crying, and people came up and said "Oh my goodness! Last time I saw you, you were four!", especially when you're clueless as to who this person is.
I think PSI should make the call, but I think she needs to talk to her mother... though with what she said about that not succeeding, I'm sorry dear, I wish I could help you figure out what to do... but I wish you luck in making her stop that, it's really manipulation that shouldn't be tolerated.
(Btw, I hope that post was coherent, my cousin's wedding today, and I can barely see through my tears... I don't know what I'm saying. It probably didn't make a whole lot of sense, but I hope my point came across alright.)
Posted by Jar Head (Member # 7018) on :
Raia thinks I am immature!!
I have been a grown man longer then you have been complete chromosome set. I do not take a poll to know what to do, I have my own yard stick. Until you have the personal strength to muck out the stalls, shoot the sick dog, and stand up to the bullies never question my maturity.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
No, Raia doesn't think you're immature, Raia knows you're immature.
Maturity is not all about age... once you prove yourself somewhere to have something sensible to say, maybe I'll change my mind. I don't care that I'm younger than you. I pity you that you need a teenager to tell you the truth.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Honestly, her telling you you are immature IS standing up to the bullies, and age is no determiner of maturity.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Or the ability to stop and ask for directions.
Posted by Jar Head (Member # 7018) on :
I don't. You haven't. Don't make me be insensitive, I can't take another Raia hug-fest. My condolences on the loss of your cousin.
I also note that your last post agrees with the course of action I outlined. If the action I arrived at is the same how can you disdain it? or were you reacting in that childish knee jerk way because some of us trivialized your bully issue? How mature is that?
Posted by Jar Head (Member # 7018) on :
If I am a bully to you then you have never faced anything close to the real deal, I mearly have a different opinion. There must be better then this here! These are the lovers of the man who wrote Ender's Game!
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
You know what, I can't respond to that now... I'll probably say something I'll regret later. My emotions are a little frenzied today.
There probably is far better than me here, let those people all jump at your throat as you deserve, I'm outta here.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
And a man who loves Ender's Game kicks someone while they're down.
Worthy of the child Ender.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Jar Head... you're only proving her point hotshot. Being that you are an immature a-hole. The way you talk I have serious difficulty believing that you are a grown man. There's nothing I can see on the net to prove that to me aside from the way you post, and the way you post comes far closer to the typical over confident teenage boy who thinks he's hot stuff cause he can kick butt at Counter Strike (I've seen a lot of these) than the mature inteligent adults who make up the majority of the posters on this board.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
It's probably because you told psi to grow up a bit. Many people have said to go ahead and call or write a letter, but you are the only one who was so rude as to suggest that psi was immature because she was put into an awkward position by her mother.
Apparently, you are the one who needs to grow up if you would still allow your mother to manipulate you and not say anything about it.
And you are being a bully. Many people have had differing opinions on what to do here, but only you told her to grow up. (In my head, it sounded a little more like, "Suck it up, you wussie. Quit you're bitching, be a man and do what you know you should do. Kids today. It kind of made me wonder if you had to walk 3 miles in the snow to school, uphill both ways. Could you buy a loaf of bread and bologna for a quarter?
Posted by Jar Head (Member # 7018) on :
Gas was $.35 dollars...
I never said she should let her mother manipulate her, I said that a grown-up would have done it without the manipulation. Remember she was asked first then manipulated.
As to kicking someone when they are down, well what is the point of getting them down in the first place if you are going to help them up?
However the truth is that I never put Raia down, if she is down then it would be best if she not pick fights until she is able to handle them. Attacking a person while you are down is just not bright.
Don't start nothing, won't be nothing as we truckers like to say.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The child Ender.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Really, mack, does Ender (even as a child) deserve to be insulted that way?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Probably not.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
More proof that age and maturity are very different concepts.
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Jar Head, I know I said I'd stay out of this, and I'm not here to "pick another fight," as you put it, I just want to clarify one thing -- I, nor anybody else, never said that you were what got me down in the first place. I'm not THAT sensitive. I'm down because I've had a rough week. Thank you, I appreciate your condolences... and that's why I'm not in the best of spirits today. I didn't mean to imply that you're the reason for my low spirits. Because you're not. But you're not really helping them any.
*walks away again*
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote: Until you have the personal strength to muck out the stalls, shoot the sick dog, and stand up to the bullies never question my maturity.
I have done all of those, and I have never questioned your maturity.
You haven't shown us any yet.
Or do you think the fact that kacard posted here was a coincidence?
Let me guess....you don't know who that is, or why you should care...
People can come to the same conclusions from different avenues of thought, you know, so just because your "suggestions" sound superficially like those of others here doesn't mean that you are like them, or that they agree with your other argument.
Personally I would have made the call in the first place, but if I wasn't sure about it then I would resent anyone attempting to force me into a course of action I didn't agree with.
That is the real issue here, for those of you not bright enough to realize that....
Kwea
[ November 28, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As much fun as JarJar can be, let's not derail another thread because of what passes for his personality.
-Trevor
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
My point fits well with JarHead's. My Father died in January of '97 I've watched my mom , and I've seen all of this first hand. Which is why I stated that A: You should put aside your feelings for your mom. B: You should call her.
B1: You should call her because what if she does remember you? What if it helps her take her mind off things? What if it helps bring more light into her life for a brief moment? I personally have seen all of these things happen to my mom, and it was all from a little someone that didn't even know her.
Dungflinging aside, I still think you should call her, not to talk about how sorry you are about the death in the family, but to talk to her, and to comfort her. To help carry some of the burden she carries. And just talking to her about random events and her remembering who you are will do more than you can imagine for her.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
The widow probably has more serious things to be upset about than whether or not you call. Unless she has some very fond memories of you as a child, it's unlikely that the lack of a phone call (especially if a nice card is sent) will be devastating. Furthermore, the point that Katharina brought up about having to make small talk with a stranger seem valid to me as an introvert. I admit that I haven't lost anyone close to me, but when I am very sad, there's a pretty limited set of people I want to have a conversation with. On the other hand, most people are probably more extroverted and might actually want to talk to anyone who's willing. The problem is that you don't know this person--though if your mother isn't lying to you, a call may be appreciated.
Are you more bothered because you have been manipulated or because you don't want to have this conversation? If it's just the manipulation that bothers you, you might consider asking the widow not to discuss you with your mother, including answering any questions about your conversation (whether or not you make the last part explicit is up to you). Perhaps this is too much pressure to put on her at this time, and of course you certainly don't want to let it slip that you were manipulated into calling her. But you might be able to have it both ways--spare this woman's feelings while preventing your mother from using this tactic again.
You could also just send her a card but include your phone number so she can call if she truly wants to talk to you.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
A grown-up would not have called to offer condolences to someone they had met as a child almost 20 years ago but don't remember ever speaking to. It has nothing to do with maturity.
If my Mom had mentioned something like this, I would probably send a card. To me, a phone call would seem very contrived.
[ November 29, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: zgator ]
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Shigosei, I disagree... I don't think it's fair to leave the phonecall up to Kathleen by putting a number in a card. Kathleen might feel she's obligated to call, and she definitely has other things on her mind right now. If PSI wants to call, that's fine, but she needs to keep that ball in her court. Kathleen doesn't need an added pressure.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:You should call her because what if she does remember you? What if it helps her take her mind off things? What if it helps bring more light into her life for a brief moment?
There are many people - some of who have posted here - that would feel miserable having to talk to someone they don't know when they've suffered a terrible loss. So calling might make her feel worse.
The card is the best compromise between both types of people.
Dagonee
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
I too vote for the card. Perfect balance. I also think KHJ's advice for dealing with a mother is excellent.
Not knowing how to deal with this does not make you immature, IMO. My mother did this until her death (bless her heart, I love her still). She would also tell me exactly what to say, like a parrot. Maybe it's a common mom thing, especially when your mom loves you a lot and -- maybe? -- you yourself are a bit of an introvert. I am.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
What , you think that you are the only one giving advice here that has lost somene?
Guess again.
I still wouldn't to have to bother with a bunch of calls from people I don't even know when I was coping with a very personal loss. I would, because someone has to, and you can't be rude to people who are calling to offer condolences because they are doing what they see as a comfort, even though nothing really comforts you......
But a card was the best thing to do when I went through this, it shows concern without obligating anyone to make small talk when they are bleeding inside.
Kwea
[ November 30, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Kwea, who did you address that to?
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
I would bet Raventh. And I'm all for the card or flowers too. When Mom died the lasty thing I needed was people I hardly know of to call me and tell they're sorry for my loss. I needed the people who were really close to me to be there for me, period. So since you don't know what type is Kathleen, I would go for a card. As it has been said, it's the best compromise.
[ November 30, 2004, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It is funny how everyone handles things differently. I hadn't lived at home for a while when my mother died, so most of the local people were strangers to me. I did know, however, that my mom had been a little bit lonely. My dad was working 12 hour days then, and her two oldest had left the nest. She had to work full-time and she'd never had to do that before, and our neighborhood was kind of divided between those living in the big houses on the hill and those in the townhouses at the bottom, and since we were in the middle of my dad building up the business, we were in the townhouses at the bottom. Socially, my mother felt left out. She didn't have a lot of health problems that kept her from doing things before she died, so it bothered me sometimes that I knew she was a little bit lonely.
Anyway, the point of this is that when she died and two dozen women came out of the woodwork to tell me how sorry they were and bring us food and try to say something nice about my mom whom they barely knew, it pissed me off. I didn't want to create conversation with them, and I didn't need the supposed comfort of a bunch of strangers. If they liked my mom so much, why weren't they around when she was alive? I didn't need them now, but she did then. And since I knew she felt left out sometimes when she was alive, this sudden flow of concern was hard to believe.
</another perspective>
[ November 30, 2004, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I just re-read that..I didn't mean that to be so....touchy, I guess.
It just bothered me that a lot of perple here are saying I KNOW...blah blah blah.." when in fact everyone deals with grief in a different manner, and a card is an accepted way of experssing condolences.
I HATED getting phone calls at my uncles house when my gradndma died, even though I tried to keep that from being obvious. Most of the people who called were strangers to me...same thing with people at the funeral. I didn't know them, and wanted to just be left alone with my family to greive....but I repected their wishes and their grief, so I smiled and shook hands and listened to their stories.
Sorry, I didn't mean to take that out on anyone else here....I won't delete it because I don't like it when people do that, but I really didn't mean it to sound that way.
Please just keep in mind that people greive in may different ways.
Kwea
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Pardon me for trying to explain where I'm coming from, and why I'm saying what I am.
PSI: Take all of what you see here, and do what you 'feel' you should do with her. I still suggest leaving out how you feel about your mom in this situation. Your mom is another situation entierly and Please treat it as such.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I have already apoligized...if it isn't enough...
Well, there is nothing more that I can do...or rather, that I am willing to do.
It isn't rocket science to realize that other people have been in the same situation too.....and by mentioning your loss as a way of validating your ponits it disregards that fact taht ALL of us are speaking aboyut his from our own perspective....
And that ever one of us has lost SOMEONE.
I do agree with you about mot mentioning your mother, if you do talk to the woman...that poor woman has enought to thin k about, so I don't think she needs any further complications from someone who doesn't really know her at all.
But I would mention it to your mom, that is for sure.
Kwea
[ November 30, 2004, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
It's alright, Kwea.
Just remember that people say "I know what you're going through," because, while people deal with it in different ways, the tragic incident boils down to being the same each time... death. Anybody who's lost someone (and I don't mean to single people out, I mean, everyone) knows that. They know it's difficult for everyone to different degrees. Nobody meant to be patronizing.
Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think anyone meant to be patronizing. I know I didn't. If I came off that way, I apologize.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
(((raventh))) You do not have to feel agressed or something. I'm sure everyone realizes that everyone is different confronted to loss and grieve. My experiment is not more significative than yours. If I though that everyone reacted as I did, I would say "leave this poor woman alone". Since it's not the case, I suggest a compromise with a card or flowers : a gesture, but nothing too invasive.
EDIT to add : thank you Raia. I always hated the little sentence "I know how you're feeling" because, bloody h*ll, that's not true ! When I see how me and my sisters reacted when my mother died, it was totally different for the three of us, and we lost the same person who played the same role for us... I guess it doesn't help that a few days after my mom's death, someone I knew from the choral group said "oh, I understand you. My cat died last week, so I totally know how you're feeling. " But thanks to you it takes more sense (and I say it with absolutely no irony)
[ November 30, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Hmm I tend to preface my sympathy statments with "I don't know what you are going through" rather than the opposite.
AJ
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Then you're great. Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
(((Everybody))) It is so nice to see you all getting along!
BC
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*stab*
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
The funny part about that BC is that it is the single most intelligent thing you have ever said here.
Not that that is saying much....
I said I was sorry the first time because I realized I was too touchy about it the first in the first post. I realize it is different for everyone, that was sort of my point....all these people telling everyone else why it is the same as what they went throuhg...
It touched a nerve, that's all....I know Raventh (and everyone else in here...welll, almost everyone.. ) didn't mean it that way...
Just like I didn't mean to sound snippy in the first place, but I did.
Kwea
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Yeah!
Kwea, you know only Mac can make cutting remarks...
-Trevor
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
She's taking foil, not saber.
No cutting, only thrusting.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Bah - she still drives the point home.
-Trevor
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I like Hatrack.
Hobbes Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't know that at all...
All I know is that she is still afraid of me, and ducks me verbally like she did at the WMASS Picnic....
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I don't know what to tell you. I think I would make the call, but I think you need to have a talk with your mother. Tell her that this is what she's doing, and how much it's bothering you. But I agree that now it's a bit late not to call Kathleen... I'm sorry.
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It kind of made me wonder if you had to walk 3 miles in the snow to school, uphill both ways. Could you buy a loaf of bread and bologna for a quarter?
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Maybe it's a common mom thing, especially when your mom loves you a lot and -- maybe? -- you yourself are a bit of an introvert. I am.
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) didn't mean it that way...![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
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