Why, why, why do people not understand that a library is supposed to be a quiet place? Why do they look at me as if I'm being nasty and rude when I ask them, as nicely as I can, to please keep it down? It's my job, and really, they're the ones being rude anyway. *sigh*
</rant>
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Shh!
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
*narrows eyes and frowns*
That's what I just said!
I'm not the one having various loud conversations both in person and with sundry folks on the cell phone. I'M not disturbing anyone with MY extraneous noise.
Posted by gwan (Member # 6194) on :
Nothing makes me angrier. Except maybe people who choose to chew with thier mouths hanging open. Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
See, that doesn't make me angry so much as it grosses me out. That, and customers who smack gum in my ear while I'm leaning over trying to help them. Gross.
But these people are in a library. Isn't it (or shouldn't it be) understood that a library is a place for quiet study, research, and writing? And that therefore you should refrain as much as possible from making noise above a whisper unless absolutely necessary?
Geez...when I was growing up, the quiet of the library was drilled into me as a sacred thing.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I've come to the conclusion that people are generally pretty self centered (myself definitely included). I have a customer I busted my @ss for over 2 months to help, and they are now asking for someone more knowledgable to come and help them. No "thank you for the hard work", nothing.
It's been very hard not to take that personally, to be honest.
I've decided that they're just being unreasonable, and am going to shrug it off. Once I get over being mad.
Your library patrons are being unreasonable.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
I confess to having talked to the librarian in the library while chewing gum. I've also daydreamed about the local library being transformed into a dance club or skatepark.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
jeni...thank you! Can I kick em?
Seriously, I know what you mean about people being self-centered, but most people, when you ask them to do something out of courtesy for other people, MOST people agree immediately. It's as if they just haven't thought about it. But these folks just can't shut up to save their souls.
Or their butts. From a kick from my boot! Durn it.
To me, the greatest evidence of the decline of western civilization is the complete lack of courtesy displayed by so many of its denizens. I am, perhaps, being a bit overdramatic here, but I think courtesy would solve many of the world's problems.
Don't ask me for specifics, though; I don't have em. Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Don't have what - manners or specifics?
-Trevor
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Trevor, now, do you really want to be messing with me when I'm irked already? I'll come down and throw you into a Coke machine or something.
And, for the record, I meant specifics, although I certainly hope I have manners as well.
*nods primly*
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Lesson learned - don't wear socks on linoleum when taunting the musically inclined.
-Trevor
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Or just watch out for the short ones. They're tougher than they seem.
Oh, and check your email.
[ November 23, 2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Megan ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As the Trevor-shaped dent in the GSU Coke Machine will testify to, I'm sure.
-Trevor
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I have the same problem sith students. You tell the class to be quiet, and it never works. It especially bothers me when they all get a look on their face like they understand you, and agree with you, and they just keep on talking as if you were talking about everybody else in the class and not them personally.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
SITH students? That should explain everything.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
I think I killed some of those in KOTOR.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
quote:You tell the class to be quiet, and it never works.
It works for me after I start assigning oral reports.
Not a part of the grade except as a pass/fail component once assigned. You talk in class, you do an oral report on the topic of my choice one week later. If you miss that date, you do it the next time you show up. (This is a college class, and I made it part of the syllabus.)
Of course, I am perfectly friendly about it, offer to give help if needed, and praise lavishly if it is warranted. But ... you get to talk in public, all eyes on you, and everyone in your audience gives you an (anonymous) written critique.
Doesn't happen more than once a semester, if that. Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
I think it is poor form to treat a presenter as if he or she is a television set, whether it is me or another classmate. If someone has prepared a presentation and is putting their heart on the line, then you show proper respect.
Even if it is an oral report assigned for talking in class. We all pay attention and are courteous to a fault.
[I will give warning looks, but only so far. Then it becomes time for the public sweating.]
[ November 23, 2004, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I wonder if Sara's warning looks are as good as I think they are.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
If you're not quiet in the library around here they give you a warning, and kick you out. And everyone points and laughs at you (quietly) while you are leaving. Pretty severe punishment, I think.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
The Purdue library is set up so that people will work on group projects there. The main library, that is. There are a few books and tons of tables with chairs around them for group work. If you want to research you go to the humanities library.
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
what is you work schedule Megan, I need to come and "quietly* bother you Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I wouldn't recommend it - she's fiesty when she's ticked.
-Trevor
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
JT, I'm afraid that's classified information.
Trevor, I'm feisty when I'm not ticked, too. I'm just a little nicer then.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Our library's like a tomb. You even walk with noisy footsteps and everyone, from the first year student who looks lost to the graduate student with a zillion books to the grizzled professor, gives you evil looks as you walk by.
It's quite frightening. It would be the perfect setting for a horror story.
[ November 23, 2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Why do they look at me as if I'm being nasty and rude when I ask them, as nicely as I can, to please keep it down?
Why do you think they are being nasty and rude when they're just talking in a public place?
It's fairly easy to complain about the selfishness and rudeness of others... but the truth is that it is no more selfish to talk in a library than it is to expect others to stop talking whenever you wish. It'd be just as easy for someone to come on Hatrack and rant about all those people who can't handle a little noise in the library - and they'd be no less right, and no more.
[ November 24, 2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
What is it that you won't contend?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Xap will never contend that contention is pink with purple polka dots.
Though he might be well served to actually read some philosophy instead of just scanning for the fancy words.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Seeing cellphone abusers makes me think that some folks can't stand to hear their own thoughts.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*idly wonders if her Glare has similar wattage to Sara's Look*
I've got you all beat. I teach <pause> high school students. Female high school students. Now, they don't talk OFTEN in my class (the whole five-points-off-the-next-test thing works relatively well) . . . but sometimes I wonder about a few of them, who really rack up the points off. (Sara, I think I might steal your method to use on a couple of 'em. I like it! )
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Xap, there are different rules in dfferent places, right ? I someone smoke in the non-smoker wagon of my train, I will find it rude and tell him to stop that or go in the smoker wagon. If I go in a smoker wagon and tell everyone to stop to smoke, I'm off-limits. I wouldn't dare to tell people to shut up in the train, because even if I want them too, it's not in the rules of the train. In a classroom with a teacher teaching, you are not supposed to read, and it would be rude to do so. In a library, you can read, but not speak loud. It's just a question of adapting your behaviour to the rules of the place you're in.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
rivka, I like it because it actually can be a learning experience, and I can work on being helpful (once the assignment is made) rather than punitive. And, if they do well, I can praise.
But I think it fits the crime. Once one is up there herself, one realizes how acute the position can be. And if the person isn't fazed by it and goofs off during the presentation, I suppose a verbal critique by the class on the spot would work. Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Here, people don't have the common decency to turn their phones off... so I try to study in the library, and I constantly hear obnoxious ringtones, one after the other, and then peoples' conversations with their various friends or something. It's so inconsiderate.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
In our public libraries, it's the cell phones that really get to me.
Course, I spend most of my time when I'm at the library in the children's section, where it's very lively and noisy. The one I frequent most often has the preschool area closed off so the kids don't disturb any one else - even the young adult section is pretty quiet.
But if I'm in the grownup part of the library and people are answering cell phones next to me - I do get a little riled up. Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
*points Belle to post right before hers*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
In our local library, there's a no-cell rule. Ringing phones will get you a Look. Talking on your phone will get you asked to leave.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
If anyone ever got the combined Look of rivka and Sara, I think they would implode.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*thinks we should experiment on mack* Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Sara, you once again have me falling at your feet. You are a Goddess extraordinaire. What a brilliant, yet gentle, method for dealing with those rude interruptions. Next time I have a class, I've got to try it!! Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
But ringing cell phones and conversations in the middle of church? *shudders*
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
quote:Xap, there are different rules in dfferent places, right ?
Anna, this is exactly right. Xap, the library is a public place, yes, but it's a public place with explicit rules for quiet. It's designed for study, and if I'm there trying to study (or read or write, which is far more common for me than studying), then people talking there against the rules drives me insane and prevents me from working.
Never in a million years would I ask people to be quiet in a public place where there were no rules against being quiet--but the quiet rules are there for a reason.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*flees*
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
aw, don't run away, mack! Why are you running away?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:What is it that you won't contend?
Things that are clearly right.
quote:Xap, the library is a public place, yes, but it's a public place with explicit rules for quiet. It's designed for study, and if I'm there trying to study (or read or write, which is far more common for me than studying), then people talking there against the rules drives me insane and prevents me from working.
It may be designed for study, but it is also a place that can be used for socialization. Yes, rules differ from place to place, but those rules are up for debate. For some, a library can be a place to talk, and they are going to believe the rules should be such that talking is allowed and telling people not to talk is unacceptable. There are obviously authorities in every library who have greater power to enforce the rules they believe are correct (librarians), but they too are not right just because they have the authority. A librarian who kicks you out for breathing too loudly is being rude in their demands, for instance, despite whatever authority they have to make and enforce the official rules.
I think most people would agree that an essential function of a library is allowing people to read, study, and write. But what is going to be up to debate is what level of socialization is consistent with that goal. I, for instance, could probably read in a rock concert. Some people can't even focus with a slight background noise. The solution will likely be somewhere between the two, and thus will inevitably still bother some - those who want lots of loudness and those who want extreme quiet.
Thus, you cannot just say they are the ones being rude. They likely think they are not being so loud that they would bother people, and thus think YOU are the one being rude by asking them to stop their socialization - something they may consider another legitimate function of a library (and it is, really.) It is possible they can read in loud environments, and thus don't understand what's wrong with what they are doing. Or it's possible they just don't realize how loud they are. Either way, to such a person, you'd be acting unreasonable by expecting them to be what they consider to be overly quiet, hurting their socialization for your own selfish desire to have it quieter than (in their view) you need it. You asked why they look at you nasty when you ask them to be quiet - I suspect this is why.
It's not that they don't realize there are different rules in a library. It is that they think those rules are different than what you think they are. And thus I don't think you have reason to be angry with them, as they are probably not deliberately uncaring about your needs in the library.
As a general rule, the rudeness of others is often overreacted to, because people interpret it as blatant disregard for the rules, when in actuality it is normally just disagreement and misunderstanding over what the rules should be.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
That just makes them mistaken.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Actually, I am quite content in thinking they're being rude and if they happen to breaking the rules of the library, whether they happen to like those rules or not, I am equally content in asking them to stop.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
(I ran from rivka and Sara giving me a Combined Look)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Rather, from the threat of same. Sara's much to nice to go along with my evil plans. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Are we talking about the SAME Sara?!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*considers* Ok, perhaps it's not that she's too nice . . . maybe it's that she's far too subtle?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The military duplicates the effect of Sara's looks, but they refer to them as "surgical strikes."
She's precise and considerate while still being punitive.
Rather like a pit bull letting you choose which leg gets gnawed on.
-Trevor
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Xap : socialisation is OK. They CAN do it by whispering. If they don't WANT to, they're out. Period. <- is a school librarian and won't be troubled by this kind of argumentation she hears everyday
[ November 26, 2004, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Mack, I understand the fleeing now. Here, you can hide behind me!
Xap, some libraries, and some areas of some libraries, are more for socialization than others. There are places in the library I was in at the time that these people could've had their conversation at the same volume and not disturbed anyone. The problem at the time was their location, and I wasn't the only one giving them dirty looks before I asked them to be quiet. Moreover, part of my job as a computer lab consultant is to "maintain a good working atmosphere for the lab," which means asking anyone that appears to be disturbing anyone else to tone it down or take it out.
Really, I have no problem with them not realizing their talking was disturbing people, or even really a problem with them having a different understanding of the rules than me. My real problem is with that, when asked as politely as possible to be a little quieter because they were disturbing other patrons, they treated me as if I were some sort of menial who was deliberately out to sabotage their fun.
Oh, and finally, my views may have been somewhat influenced by the fact that I've asked one of these people dozens and dozens of times to be a little quieter, and not to talk on her cellphone in the library--not to mention seeing her treat all library staff like menials at various times and places. I place a very high value, not on following the rules necessarily, but on being civil to the people around you in any given situation, and people who can't manage that (or seem to deliberately eschew it) really get on my nerves.
Posted by babager (Member # 6700) on :
Before we bought the computer last year we would have to go to the library to do anything on-line. The other computers were almost always filled with 7th and 8th grade boys and they were ALWAYS talking with their buddies. I Had no problem shushing them and if that didn't work I'd get the librarian. But I Loved it when they got caught looking at the naughty sites, then they got banned for a LONG time. Then the computers could be mine all mine .
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
But I Loved it when they got caught looking at the naughty sites, then they got banned for a LONG time. Then the computers could be mine all mine ![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
.