So, this semester, I'm taking a French for Reading Knowledge class (in which we learn to read French, but not to speak it). Of the sentences we translate, many of them are proverbs. Last night, one of the proverbs on our homework was this:
Nothing lowers man like little pleasures. --Joubert
My first reaction to the proverb was, "Well, what about 'It's the little things that make life worthwhile'? Isn't it small pleasures that make life fun?" But then I thought about it for a bit, and now I'm not so sure. Combined with the baseball thread situation, it raised questions in my mind: Do we (human beings) place so much value on small pleasures that we allow them to "lower" us, or consume us in an unhealthy way? Or is it really the little things that make life worthwhile?
I don't know. I don't have any good answers, but I wondered what Hatrack would think.
Also, please note: this is merely an abstract philosophical pondering. This is in no wayintended to poke at anyone's valuation of their own little pleasures.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Doesn't it depend on quantity?
I mean -- I can count the wonderful taste of potato chips as one of life's great "little pleasures" -- yet we know what happens when you start eating potato chips -- you can't stop -- and then they become unhealthy...
FG
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
In the case of potato chips, it absolutely depends on quantity in terms of unhealthiness. I think "unhealthy" was maybe not the best word to use, though, because I'm thinking more as a response to the original quote. It's unhealthy to eat too many potato chips, yes, but does it "lower" us? Does it make us bad people somehow?
I think the overindulgence issue is part of it, but it doesn't seem to me like that's all there is to it. Is there something inherent in indulging in small pleasures that lowers human beings, or does it just depend on quantity?
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Stupid Frenchies Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, it's all about "moderation in all things, including moderation," innit?
Seriously, it IS the small pleasures which make life enjoyable. But anything enjoyed to the exclusion of everything else is bad, and ultimately less enjoyable.
We need doctors -- but if everyone were doctors, we'd never get our mail or have our trash removed. We might like cinnamon in our apple pie, but probably wouldn't enjoy digging our way through a giant heap of cinnamon. We might enjoy sex, but the pursuit of sex above all else is enormously damaging to our relationships with people. And so forth.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying something, or in pursuing enjoyment. But there's plenty wrong with obsession.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
quote:There's nothing wrong with enjoying something, or in pursuing enjoyment. But there's plenty wrong with obsession.
Tom, there's something wrong with your post count. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
To me that phrase didn't mean that the larger things weren't important. It is just that they are so large that we have a hard time embracing them in their entirety...and we don't always have them on our minds in day to day life.
The small pleasures are so wonderful because they are simple, and come up every day. They make the day to day grind a little more bearable, and we experience them more often than the huge, powerful emotions that sweep us every so often.
Also, the larger emotional issues sometimes bring pain with them, so they are pleasure mixed with sorrw....love is wonderful, but it can also break your heart.
The smaller pleasures are almost always a good thing (from a pleasure standpoint).
Keep in mind that some things mean different things to different people. I use to play a lot of pool, so if you had called it a small, simple pleasure I would have pointed out that I made $100 a week in tournaments, so it wasn't a small pleasure to me... But to most people, those who didn't play 4-5 nights a week, it would have been "just a game".
Kwea
[ October 29, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I think it was CS Lewis who said "As soon as something becomes a god, it also becomes a demon." Regardless of whether you believe in gods and demons, I think the principle still holds.
But I'm really not sure of the initial proverb. It sounds like there has got to be more context to it. The small pleasures are what make life worthwhile. A good meal, a hot bath... that's what amkes life good.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
What's the actual quote in french? I'm having trouble finding it. I did find a collection of ~50 quotes from Joubert, to give it a little context. Joubert, French moralist Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Bearing in mind that the proverb is from a French reading textbook, so it may be dumbed down in some way for those of us who are, uh, new to the language:
Rien ne rapetisse l'homme comme les petits plaisirs. --Joubert
"Rapetisse" is translated as lowers by the book; I haven't actually checked a dictionary to see if that is indeed what it typically means.
Edit: Ah! I didn't know that he was responsible for "It's better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." Thanks for the link!
[ October 29, 2004, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Megan ]
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Wow that quote's hard to find. I've seen the french, but no translations of the quote into english.
The thing is, I'm having trouble reading the intention of the author. He probably means it negatively, but I can't be certain. For example, I could see the meaning being, "nothing reduces a man [into his simple being] than [watching him enjoying] small pleasures."
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
I dunno if "reduces" carries over the proper connotation&nuance of "rapetisse"; "réduire" is more directly equivalent to "to reduce". And the "abase/debase" nuance within "lowers" seems even farther removed from how "rapetisse" is commonly used.
I'd choose "shrinks" for having the more neutral connotation&nuance of "rapetisse". eg "Apple shrinks its computer" implies a smaller size but doesn't imply that the computer has less capability, while "Apple reduces its computer" does make one think that capabilities were decreased to make that reduction.
So I'd think that Joubert meant something closer to: A man enjoying his little pleasures shows that "he puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else." instead of: Indulging in little pleasures debases a man.
[ April 30, 2006, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
Eaquae Legit, CS Lewis also said, through Screwtape, that at least one man has been "defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions."
I love that quote. Sometimes it is the smaller things which keep us from becoming too caught up in worldliness, rather than the reverse.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Since I had to once again correct for a forum program change which messed up the foreign letters within my post above...
Sara Sasse's commentary evokes Joubert's meaning most closely.
The translation "Nothing lowers the man like the small pleasures." to me feels too much like "Nothing humiliates a man like his small pleasures."
Whereas "Rien ne rapetisse l'homme comme les petits plaisirs." has a feel closer to "Nothing humbles a man like his little pleasures."
"I am humiliated by this award from my peers." has a meaning quite different from "I am humbled by this award from my peers."
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I read it as "Nothing reduces a man more than letting his life revolve around petty things."
The image I got immediately was a man carrying my own vices to extremes: blowing all his money on gambling, booze, drugs, and generally leading a lifestyle of no significance except as a negative example.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Sounds to me like humbles is the right sense of the word for this context.
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