I'm thinking of reading Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series.
My problem is I need to find an Awesome Book. As I have complained in my live journal several times, George R.R. Martin has ruined everything for me. Since reading his series, other books pale by comparison. I'm currently reading "Years of Rice and Salt" by Robinson but I don't love it; I read it because it's there. I miss having a book to be excited about. Please help. Call it a Hatrack Intervention.
space opera
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Have you read any series by Donaldson? Either the Thomas Covenant or the Gap series?
msquared
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
Don't read "Wheel of Time." I couldn't make it past page seventeen, it was so boring.
You're probably tired of hearing this, but have you read "Wicked"? THAT is an Awesome Book. If you have, I'm sorry, I don't know too many that are really worth getting excited about, not that I can remember at the moment, anyway! But I'll think, and if I come up with any, I'll let you know.
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
Read the Farseer series by Robin Hobb. Apart from GRRM I think it's the best fantasy ever.
The first book is Assassin's Apprentice
Edit: Oh, and for pity's sake, don't read Jordan. The first couple of books are good but then start going downhill. WAY downhill. As in downhill and into a bottomless hole, never to be seen again. After reading book ten I felt... violated.
[ October 21, 2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: St. Yogi ]
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Try Alan Dean Foster's Into the Out of... it's really good. As is his novel, Maori, about the settling of New Zealand.
Some of the best non-SF works by a Sci-Fi author around.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I enjoyed the first 6 books or so of the WoT series...after that they got dull.
I thought edding's Belgariad and Malorean series were great. I also loved The Redemption of Athalus.
They are not the same sort of fantasy as Martin...but they are funny and enjoyable.
I have heard that a book called The Briar King (don't remember the author) is similar to martin...but I have not read it, so I am not sure...I just heard about it over at Martin's message board.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Read any Tad Williams? He isn't quite Martin's equal, but he's pretty damned good. I found his Otherland series to be well worth reading, and the books are of a similar size to Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire books, so they're satisfyingly meaty.
Go out and get one of Gardner Dozois' Year's Best Science Fiction anthologies. I usually find that I enjoy a fairly high percentage of them.
Have you read Martin's 2 novellas set in Westros about 100 years before the events of A Song of Ice and Fire? They aren't bad, particularly the first one. You'll find them in Robert Silverberg's Legends and Legends II, respectively.
Read much Neil Gaiman? I loved his American Gods, and found Neverwhere to be worth reading. I intend to read more of his stuff, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
Have you tried Octavia Butler? Reminds me quite a bit of OSC, in terms of the depth she gives her characters. I'd recommend Wild Seed, or the Xenogenesis trilogy, or The Parable of the Sower as a good starting point for her.
Maureen McHugh is great, as you know. Nothing she's written since quite compares to China Mountain Zhang, in my mind, but Mission Child and Necropolis are both quite good.
Pat Murphy is another author worth reading. Of the stuff of hers I've read, Nadya: The Wolf Chronicles stands out as by far the best, to my eye anyway. The City Not Long After is pretty good too--definitely the most unusual post apocalyptic type novel I've read.
David Brin is an author that I find to be fairly inconsistent, but when he's good he's damned good. The Kiln People is one of the best new pieces of SF I've read in some time.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
quote:Go out and get one of Gardner Dozois' Year's Best Science Fiction anthologies. I usually find that I enjoy a fairly high percentage of them.
Ditto. I have four volumes, and have found excellent stories in all four.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Get the Spellsong Cycle (4 books) by L.E. Modesitt Jr. Some of the best stuff he's ever written IMO. Each story stands alone as well as working together in the rest of the group.
[ October 21, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Dagnabbit, you guys are good! But please, keep 'em coming. I read fast enough that finding good books is a problem for me, too.
I second the earlier Robin Hobbs comment. I loved the Farseer trilogy and have since moved on to the Liveships trilogy, which I am also loving.
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
quote: After years of domination by embarrassingly bad Tolkien rip-offs and silly comic novels, the heroic fantasy genre has finally attracted some seriously good writers doing top-of-their-form work. The best of this good lot is Robin Hobb, who, under the name Megan Lindholm, published one of the best contemporary fantasies of the 80s, The Wizard of the Pigeons. In a way, her switch to a new name and a more commercial genre might have represented a surrender -- what would attract this fine, deep, persuasive storyteller to the genre of Eddings and Brooks! -- but in fact she is not doing anything that remotely resembles a Tolkien imitation. As with George R.R. Martin and David Farland, her fantasy world owes more to Graustark than to Middle Earth, and like these two writers her technique owes more to science fiction than to fantasy.
quote: If you're a fantasy reader and aren't already deeply involved in Robin Hobb's masterful series, then go back to the Farseer trilogy (the ones with "Assassin" in the title) and the Liveship Traders trilogy and then pick up Fool's Errand and read it and then you'll be ready for her brilliant new book, Golden Fool.
Sounds like a lot of reading, doesn't it? All I can say is, it's worth every hour. As jaded as I am with speculative fiction, and as repelled as I am by formulaic tolkienesquery, it's hard to find a more hostile reader than I am for multi-volume fantasy "epics."
But Robin Hobb owes nothing to Tolkien, her stories are both personal and epic at once, her characters are well-drawn and you can't help but care about them, and her writing is rewarding at every level.
Nobody looks at genre fiction when they're handing out the big prestigious awards. But that's their loss. In a world where Cold Mountain and The Connections are treated as "serious" fiction, and the far more original, realistic, moving, and well-written fantasy novels of Robin Hobb are ignored as "escapism," you begin to realize that maybe us ordinary, unsophisticated readers are getting much better literature than the li-fi fans.
Shhhh. Don't tell them. They're perfectly happy feeling superior to the rest of us, and because they leave us alone down here in the genres, we get to do things our own way. And our own way -- at least when it's a writer like Hobb -- is as good as it gets.
[ October 21, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: St. Yogi ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Cool!
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Hmmm, my problems with Robin Hobbes are similar to my problem with Jordan. Their storylines are based on people ALWAYS doing the wrong thing and based on people ALWAYS being despicable. This seems to be what people mean when they say "character driven" fantasy, but the characters are unappealing. Hobbes has a better writing style, though, IMO, but I couldn't read beyond the first Assassin book. Too bleak.
Jordan I couldn't finish the first book. It's the fantasy equivalent of a cheesy horror movie. You know, "Here, I'll just go down this dark alley! Aiiiigh, a killer... Whew, I avoided him, I'll just go down this other dark alley..." In order for the plot to work, everyone has to do the wrong thing over and over and not learn from it.
Of course, I liked memory Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams, and those books were based on similar themes and plot points, but it worked somehow. I would never be able to read them again however, simply because of that.
I'd read Hobbes if it was a choice 'twixt the two, but I prefer neither.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Has no one read the Spellsong Cycle here? I find it difficult to believe. It's been one of the most enjoyable fantasy pieces I've read in a very long time.
AJ
Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
If you are interested in series, then I can recommend:
(science fiction) The Firestar series by Michael Flynn “Moonrise” and “Moonwar” by Ben Bova The Damned series (“A Call to Arms” etc.) by Alan Dean Foster The “Icerigger” series by Alan Dean Foster The Pip and Flinx books by Alan Dean Foster The Giants series by James P. Hogan “The Legacy of Heorot” and “Beowulf’s Children” (aka “The Dragons of Heorot”) by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Steven Barnes “The Integral Trees” and “The Smoke Ring” by Larry Niven The Childe Cycle series by Gordon R. Dickson The Lensmen series by E.E.doc Smith The Robot novels and the Foundation novels by Isaac Asimov The Uplift books by David Brin
(fantasy) The Dark Tower series by Steven King (I haven’t read yet but my son and several friends like it a lot) “The Dragon and the George” series by Gordon R. Dickson
(alternate history) The Worldwar series (“In the Balance” etc.) by Harry Turtledove “Lion’s Heart” and “Zulu Heart” by Steven Barns The Stars and Stripes series by Harry Harrison
(comedy) The Stainless Steel Rat series by Harry Harrison “Bill the Galactic Hero” series by Harry Harrison
(. . .and a partridge in a pare tree . . .)
If you are interested in individual books then I can recommend all of the above authors especially anything Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle coauthored. Also don’t forget Heinlein, and Clarke
Let’s see, have I missed anything? Oh well, that list will keep you busy for a few days.
Posted by Lyraluthuen (Member # 6560) on :
I can never stop recommending The Riddlemaster Trilogy, by Patricia McKillup to anyone who enjoys engaging fantasy. It's one of those series you either love or you hate, but I always enjoy it.
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Riddlemaster of Hed is a truly beautiful story.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
quote:Has no one read the Spellsong Cycle here? I find it difficult to believe. It's been one of the most enjoyable fantasy pieces I've read in a very long time.
AJ:
I got through book two and stopped. Modesett's writing ticks got the best of me (there are several things he does repetitively that make me crazy) and I couldn't bear to read more.
I get the feeling the books were written as an ode to his wife and while I appreciate his passion for his wife, I don't appreciate the books. This is not to say, however that some people do appreciate them,so I suggest that Space Opera try them out.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
quote:Has no one read the Spellsong Cycle here? I find it difficult to believe. It's been one of the most enjoyable fantasy pieces I've read in a very long time.
AJ:
I got through book two and stopped. Modesett's writing ticks got the best of me (there are several things he does repetitively that make me crazy) and I couldn't bear to read more.
I get the feeling the books were written as an ode to his wife and while I appreciate his passion for his wife, I don't appreciate the books. This is not to say, however that some people do appreciate them,so I suggest that Space Opera try them out.
My sugesstion is Jasper Fford. He has a series of fantasy/mystery/satire books that are fabulous. There are four currently and the first one is The Eyre Affair. His books are found in general fiction at the bookstore--no one recognizes that they are fantasy--yet.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
Noemon and I come up on opposite sides again. I loved Neverwhere and found American Gods to be worth reading but not spectacular.
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
So what writing ticks, Jess? I like some of the stuff he does with his writing, though I didn't like spellsinger.
Nice guy, btw, met him at a book signing.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
In the Spellsong Cycle, he has his main character worry continually over the names of lesser characters. She asks every single character their name and he drags it out into scenes of half a page or more. It wouldn't be bad, except the scenes repeats over and over and over again. Also, most of the characters she has these exchanges with never appear after that. It's maddening!
There's also a developing love story that never really develops. I kept screaming--kiss the man already. Maybe I'm just impatient.
I might go back and try again. He just bugs me.
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Yeah, that sort of stuff can be annoying.
Still, there is some, uh, "literature vérité" involved in having a character afraid to make a move in a romantic sense. I have found that "kiss the (wo)man already!" in real life can be a BAAAAD idea. Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Lois McMaster Bujold writes Awesome books. That's what you want, an Awesome book, yes?
Her science fiction Vorkosigan series is Great but if you are looking for fantasy books then pick:
The Curse of Chalion (nominated for Hugo award) Paladin of Souls (WON Hugo award last month!!)
They are a series and book 3 comes out May 2005 but the books work well as solo works of fiction also.
[ October 21, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Do you know that my library doesn't have even one book by Octavia Butler? I'm hoping they were all checked out at the time.
*can't believe it*
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I don't know the long non-romance seemed a lot more like real life to me. And I'm horrible at remembering names. So I never consciously realized he drags out the names for so long. It helped me remember them if I remembered them at all.
Also Modesitt's writing tic that has annoyed me in the past, though not enough to stop reading his books, is that he spends 80% of the book building up and building up and setting up plots and all the action happens in the last 20 pages. He has a much better tempo in the Spellsong books and I thought they were some of his best written stuff to date.
But hey if you can't get through them you can't get through them. Tolkien can drive me crazy trying to read, so I understand.
AJ
Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
Spider Robinson:
Callahan's... the whole series. It'll make you feel much better about the human race and life in general.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
You really don't need help resisting Jordan. Just start the books and they'll help you resist themselves.
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
I enjoyed the first book of the Spellsong Cycle enough to buy the 2nd and 3rd (back when it was a trilogy) but not enough to get around to reading them yet. I am a slow reader and my eyes have taken a toll over the last 3 years programming for 8 hours a day. So now I have about 60 books sitting on my shelves that I haven't read yet. I just got glasses a couple of days ago and I hope that they will help me get back into reading.
I think there might now be 5 books in the Spellsong Cycle. Yes, and here they are. I will keep them in mind as something to read soon.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
AJ:
It could just be that when I tried to read them, the planets weren't in alignment or something. I might try them again in a few years. They were also the first Modesett books I tried, so I have none of his other work to balance them against.
I will say that the first book of the series was actually good, despite the ticks. I really didn't catch on to the problems in his writing till the second book. I attempted the third book, but by then I was pretty fed up with slogging through his nonessential naming, etc.
I will try Modesett again. I had to do that with Stephen King. I tried reading his books as a teen and just couldn't stand him. Then, earlier this year, I read The Stand and then his writing memoir. Now, I'd stand in line to have hiim sign my book.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Oh, you guys are good. I have read some of the authors mentioned, but there are many many whom I've never tried. I'm so excited! If I don't have a great book to read I get a little sad. I suppose that's what comes from being a reading addict.
space opera
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I read the first Spellsong book, but didn't love it enough to get the others.
Personally, I'm in a love affair with YA fantasy right now. Reading Pullman's His Dark Materials. (waiting for someone to return book # 2 so I can continue) Read Nix's Abhorsen series and had fun with it.
I've been pulling books at random off the shelves in teh YA section of the library and continue to be pleasantly surprised. There's some good writers in that genre.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Space Opera, If you like Piers Anthony I would suggest, The Incarnations of Immortality. This series was fun as well as intriguing. I read these years ago but I've been wanting to re-read them.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Loved Pullman's books. A client's daughter recommended them to me and even borrowed me the first one. Since it was an out of town trip, I read it in the hotel room that night. Loved it. Hooked me. I went out and bought the lot, and not even from a used book store I loved them so much.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy was excellent.
I second (or third) Patricia McKillup's Riddlemaster trilogy.
Stephen R. Donaldson's two book series Mordant's Need has been a favorite of mine for years.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I started William's "War of the Flowers" last night simply because I had it. It's nice and light and I'm enjoying that. I can't wait to go to the bookstore and get some of the great books suggested here!
space opera
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
I couldn't stand Tad Williams, and only made it through the first books of both memory, sorrow, and thorn and otherland.
I liked Robin Hobb, although I thought the series jumped off at some point, and I'm not sure when that was.
I will second or third reading Donaldson's Covenant series, and beyond that the Gap series.
If you are going to read Gaiman, then you should read his short stories or The Sandman. AMerican Gods was ok, Neverwhere was good. The rest of his stuff is very fairytale like, such as Stardust. I like him. We are actually reading one of his short stories in my english class right now...
I enjoyed Modesitt's Magic of Recluce series more than I probably should have. ALthough I must warn you, the first book is unbearably boring. If you can get past that and don't mind the fact that the point of the series is: history always repeats itself and so if i show you the history of this world it will always be pretty much the same story over and over again, then you might be ok with it!
--ApostleRadio
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Ela wrote: "Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy was excellent.
I second (or third) Patricia McKillup's Riddlemaster trilogy."
I just finished Garth Nix's trilogy mentioned above, and loved it. I must say, though, that I wanted more of Sabriel after the first book. I get attached, darn it!
Funny thing, too, because I was at B and N today and pcked up Riddlemaster-in-one! Ha! I think I read Riddlemaster of Hed, and could never find the rest. At least I hope that is the case, and that I haven't read all three. I will have to check in my book journal. Sadly, what started out as a fun write-about-the-books journal, has become an old fart memory keeper, so I don't reread things.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: I enjoyed Modesitt's Magic of Recluce series more than I probably should have. ALthough I must warn you, the first book is unbearably boring.
I've enjoyed selected books of this series but not the series as a whole. I really like the Engineer one (I've forgotten the real name), the others I've read but didn't enjoy quite as much.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Q : How many Robert Jordan characters does it take to change a lightbulb? A : Only one character, but at least three books. And if the character is female, at least one spanking per book.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I would agree, KoM, except that I would change it to one spanking per chapter.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
O.O Remind me to steer clear of the Wheel of Time books.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Um, no. There's one spanking per chapter, right enough, but each character only gets one per book. The lightbulb subplot would only get one chapter in each of the three books.
I wonder why he does that? It's not as though it's even interesting as erotica : We never see the actual spanking, only the difficulty sitting down.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I have said it before, and I'll say it again, whatever the reason he does it, it is one of the main reasons I abandoned the books.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
In a series that takes a whole 900-page book to move one character twenty miles, you object to a little light spanking? At least they keep you awake!
Posted by Lady Jane (Member # 7249) on :
East of Eden by John Steinbeck
It really is fantastic, and just as twisty and delightful as Martin.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
How about "The Player of Games", and indeed the whole Culture series, by Iain Banks?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I don't think I have ever heard Silverberg mentioned here. I read Lord Valentine's Castle, and loved it. I never read any more than that, though. It was one of those series that I decided I was happy with after one book.
Oh my! I just did a search for Silverberg novels, and he has written a truckload o' books.
Has anyone read Gilgamesh the King? That is probably my favorite story, next to the Arthur legend.
[ March 26, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
May I suggest. . .
Kate Elliott (Jaran, An Earthly Crown, His Conquering Sword, The Law of Becoming) - Science fiction, although most of the early books take place on a primitive planet. Pros: Wonderfully drawn cultures, lots of shades of grey, interesting and nuanced characters. Cons: The plot wanders a lot, and it doesn't look like the other half of the series is likely to be written any time soon.
Michelle West (Hunter's Oath, Hunter's Death, The Broken Crown, The Uncrowned King, The Shining Court, Sea of Sorrows, The Riven Shield, Sun Sword) - High fantasy. The first two books constitute a separate duology with only a little character overlap. I don't like the initial duology nearly as much as the main series and would start with Broken Crown, but some people find it less confusing to begin at the chronological beginning. Pros: Beautiful writing reminiscent of Guy Gavriel Kay, amazingly layered mythology and world, interesting characters. Cons: The author doesn't believe in explaining herself, so the early books can be confusing.
Kristine Kathryn Rusch (The Sacrifice, The Changeling, The Rival, The Resistance, Victory) - High fantasy. I haven't read these in a while, so I can't give a good pro/con, but I remember being really intringued by the religions of her world, which are focal to the series, but having a difficult time engaging with most of her characters.
All three remind me at least somewhat of Martin, although other people are welcome to tell me that I'm crazy for thinking so.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:
I enjoyed Modesitt's Magic of Recluce series more than I probably should have. ALthough I must warn you, the first book is unbearably boring.
Ironically enough the 1st book is the only one I've found interesting enough to read.
Belle- I love YA fiction! If you haven't already I recomend Tamora Pierce and Patricia Wrede.
Has anyone else read Robin McKinley's Sunshine it's the only Adult novel of hers I've read (other than Deerskin which I don't really know how to classify) and it's beautiful.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you do not read Susannah Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, you will have done yourself great injury without even realizing it. It is a book which must be experienced by all readers worthy of the title.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I agree.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OK, I will try that one.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I'm reading the Red Mars trilogy... awesome stuff. Red Mars, Green Mars, and Blue Mars.
And Wheel of Time isn't that bad... the first four books were actually not bad at all... just the last 10 have become ever more slow...
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I loved the first four books.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote: If I don't have a great book to read I get a little sad. I suppose that's what comes from being a reading addict.
Me too, Space Opera! And I have a massive library fine, too. But, I scored Darwin's Children, the sequel to Darwin's Radio at the wenchcon book exchange, as well as Shadow Puppets, both in hardcover, so I shouldn't whine.
I third or fourth recommending The Riddlemaster series, it's one of the best post-Tolkien fantasy series. I have tried to read other Mckillip books, but they weren't as good. I hope it isn't true and she writes something better, but I am afraid that was her masterpiece.
Lyraluthuen, your name comes from a princess in that series, right?
Posted by Chris Kidd (Member # 2646) on :
how about the young wizard series by diane duan. the first few books might be a little dated since she started writeing the series in the early 80s. and each book can stand alone also.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
But, I scored Darwin's Children, the sequel to Darwin's Radio at the wenchcon book exchange, as well as Shadow Puppets, both in hardcover, so I shouldn't whine. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)