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And then it gets me thinking: Why do women feel the need to wear uncomfortable clothing and shoes?

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'Cause they're silly. Oh, BTW, I'm not silly.

No, seriously, it (and the weight too) are all about being attractive to men. Why is it so important to us? I am not sure, but I will tell you this: It ticks me off that another woman can (physically) be more sexually attractive to my husband than I can be. I know he loves me, but I also know that there are plenty of women far hotter than I am and that I cannot cause the same reaction in him that they can. That makes me want to look the best I can. Of course, he will never give them what he gives me, but that doesn't mean I'm not still ticked off.
 

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Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
 
Silly is the correct answer. It doesn't even really make you look much better.

[ September 18, 2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Screw that...
I want to be comfortable.
I'm not wearing high heels, panty hose or any of that stuff unless I get paid 10,000 dollars!
 

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Posted by miles_per_hour (Member # 6451) on :
 
Me neither.
 

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Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
 
I have been thinking about it, and I think it may be that women just think that self worth is determined by attractivness. Of course this is not a concious thought, but I think it shows in some of our actions and thoughts about us.
Of course this is not all women, and I think wanting to be really attractive to the guy you are in love with is totally normal. If you didn't care what he thought of your apperance I would worry.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
It's a simple question with a complex answer.

Women, for the most part, grow up in an environment that emphasizes physical beauty. Makeup is almost a commandment for women - I've seen women wearing makeup and jewelry to the gym.

After a long time, all of these become second nature and women feel naked or incomplete without the trappings they've adopted - in many ways, they remember the how but not the why, or at the very least the how has supplanted the why.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Uhleeuh (Member # 6803) on :
 
I once heard a classmate from high school say that he liked this one girl until he saw her without her makeup on...and that moment has stayed with me ever since. It sort of represents my fears on the physical appearance/weight issue.

At that point in time, I had never had a boyfriend, and didn't get my current/first one until three months ago. I always attributed this to the fact that I was overweight for most of my life, or at least from the time I was eleven until I was nineteen-more than a third of my life. I also thought it was because I didn't wear the same clothes as other, more typical girls my age and I never wore makeup. I was always good enough to be the friend but never anything more so it was easy to assume these things were the problem, even though I'm mostly sure that wasn't it. And this guy proved that in my mind, whether or not those things were really what it was.

So I worried...never enough to actually give in and start using makeup or wearing heals or skirts or anything else of the sort...but I worried that those things would keep me from ever having a boyfriend. And I had a few times where I considered changing to fit the notion of what a girl is supposed to be like.

But my insecurities are a whole other can of worms. That's just my idea on why someone might worry about their appearance and weight. Seems a bit shallow...
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Shallow, but that's what you were taught to believe - and not a willing choice, but a message that was bombarded almost from day one.

As for the moron who made the makeup comment, marriage is going to be a hell of a surprise.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
Sometimes our appearance *is* our well-being. Speaking strictly as a 17-year-old girl attending a school thick with perfectionism.

And as someone who has frequently dressed like a slut and paraded for whistles just to boost my self confidance.

Seriously, I know for a fact that a for a lot of the girls I know the eating disorder came first and the obsession with appearance came second. Life is a mystery, and the perverse things we do to make ourselves feel worth anything is only one of many enigmas we must all go through....

*smiles profoundly/bitterly*
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
Marry a short guy.

You will have a good excuse to NEVER wear heels again.
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
a) I don't.

b) I don't care what I look like to my significant other. I mean, I'm constantly whining about not being good enough, and not being pretty enough, and that Keira Knightley is much prettier than me, but honestly I don't care what I look like. I never wear heels, or miniskirts, or anything else that supposedly shows off my body... I wear long skirts because they're comfortable. And my bathing suit is a one piece.

And guess what -- I'm NOT pretty! And I don't care.
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 
Raia, honey, I know this wasn't the point of your post but you are pretty. Sorry, no way of getting around that one.

*****

Why do we wear high heels etc? The only reason I get dolled up is to feel good about myself.

I don't feel confident when I'm wearing uncomfortable or ill-fitting clothes or shoes (which for me is most high heels). So I stick to stuff I can walk in. And sit down in. And stand around in. And run, if necessary in. I have had a few experiences with clothes and shoes I bought despite the comfort factor - and ended up having a terrible night everytime I wore them.

But I do have some heels that are comfortable, and I love wearing them for special occasions. I feel special, and glamourous when I dress up. And because of that I tend to give off "I feel great" vibes which in turn get me compliments.

[ September 18, 2004, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: imogen ]
 

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Posted by margarita (Member # 6856) on :
 
I'm not always sure why I bother with makeup, clothing, and appearance as much as I do (when I do).

Most of the time it's work-related. Looking well groomed and 'professional' does affect how you're treated in the workplace. At the same time, you can look professional without going for 'pretty'. Yet, most of my female coworkers are obviously going for pretty. Most of them are married, so they're not trying to attract the men around them, but they still wear uncomfortable shoes and get up before dawn to style their hair and do their makeup. I always feel like a frump around them.

It remind me of high school - I went to an all-girls' high school, with uniforms. A huge percentage of the girls obviously took a lot of time putting on makeup every morning, and styling their hair, and on free-dress days they really glammed up. But for what audience? There were no guys around to impress! (I'm fairly certain they were not interested in attracting the male teachers, and if they were, I'd rather not know.)

So, at least in some instances, I've concluded that women dress up not to impress men, but to impress one another. A part of the female pecking order determinations, if you will.

***

On a side note, it's possible to carry yourself well no matter what you're wearing. I've seen women dressed to the nines, with hair and makeup done beautifully, who shuffle and slouch along, and I've seen women on their way to the gym (sans makeup and jewelry, and not wearing anything revealing) who walk like queens and get whistles.
 

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Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
 
Ok I wear heals because you make me feel short. Everyone makes me feel short, so in my 4 inch sling backs, I'm only about an inch shorter than stryker, still about a foot shorter than allegra.

Raia is gorgeous, she is so so pretty. No whining allowed, and I'm sure that alcon agrees with me.
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
I wear them because I like to feel good. Granted, I never where anything that's really uncomfortable, but if I don't look nice then I don't feel as good.

And Raia, you're pretty, you're gorgeous. You might not be a sexy playboy centerfold (for which you ought to be forever grateful), but you're definatly pretty.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
I like to look lovely, made-up sometimes...but I refuse to wear heels even with a floor length opera gown. It's silly. You don't have to sacrifice comfort to dress nicely.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
I'm from the camp that likes girls/women without make-up - or a discreet one if any... My ex-girfriend knew this and the first time we went out she asked me if I didn't mind that she put some on I didn't, it was quite un-showing...

As for wearing miniskirts, I always want to laugh when a girl wears a very tight, very short skirt and then keeps ajusting it because it would climb up on her... I'm not against miniskirts or anything , I just don't see the reason to wear an uncomfortable one...

High heels are another laughing matter for me. Oh, when I think about the number of times I've seen my mother wear high heels and then complain about how her feet hurt !!! And I just remembered the episode in Friends when Monica was wearing the high heeled boots only because she bought them at an insanely high price...

The best make-up is a beautiful smile.
     ~Excellent anonymous saying~
 

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Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
 
I pay attention to my appearance because I really do feel better when I look better; I actually like make up and wearing flattering clothing. I just don't understand why I feel the need to sometimes wear things, mostly shoes, which are not comfortable, why I obsess over every pound. Maybe it is just that our cultures idea style includes shoes that hurt your feet and waistlines that are smaller than mine.
 

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Posted by Pixie (Member # 4043) on :
 
Personally, I wear heels because I'm short. It's a thrilling and empowering feeling to, literally, not be looked down on for awhile. I also have very high arches so those 4-inch stillettos that make you think "ouch" are actually more comfortable for me than a pair of flat (and thus arch-less) shoes.

In general, though, I get dressed up because it makes me feel good and I'm actually more comfortable dressed up than I am in more casual clothing because then I'm not worrying about my appearance. I tend to wear more form fitting clothes because I'm petite and anything else looks like a sack but there some definite rules I follow (As in no mini-or-even-short-ish skirts, no disturbingly tight pants, and nothing that shows too much skin).

...Also, an odd thing I've found lately: Wearing clothes that are both modest and form-flattering really seems the best way to go. I actually get more compliments than some of my more revealing peers do that way. That and I very rarely wear make-up and, when I do, I make sure that it looks as natural as possible (while still doing its job hehe).
 

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Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
 
Q:

Why do women do painful things to themselves for the sake of looking sexy?

A:

Because that's what our culture demands, and anyone who doesn't give in, is immediatly exposed to the full mental burden of challenging the system, and all the inherent pain that goes along with that. Furthermore, many have had experiences that reinforce the idea that it's "look hot or be nobody..."

And it all swirls together and creates the situation we have here today.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I wear either sneakers with Spenco cheap orthotics, or Earth Shoe sandals, and that is it. My feet are damaged from years of being stuffed into cleats for soccer, and into skates for hockey. Now, I cannot walk without pain.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Stuffed into? Did they not have shoes your size, Elizabeth?

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Trevor,
Cleats and hockey skates are meant to be worn a size smaller than your foot. The more the skate and cleats adhere to your foot, the more control you have on the ice or on the field.
Over time, it causes damage.
Lots of sports do. A friend of mine, who is forty-two, has irises in his eyes that are flaking off due to too much jumping in basketball when he was younger.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Um...ow.

Looks like I'll have to re-think my approach to exercise programs for my hypothetical kids.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
No, Trevor, I would not have traded it for the world! Also, they have such better cleats and skates than they did when I was playing, and for what I could afford. Both activities are two of the joys of my life. A little orthotic-wearing now is worth it. As a matter of fact, a Sunday league has formed for women. All I need is some new, orthotic cleats, about a pound each of tape for my knees and ankles, a tin of oxygen, and someone to play against.

Hmm, too bad Soccer Dad cant play with us. I could kick his butt. I would take the ball away from him EVERY time. ha ha.

In fact, there is also an "old guy" soccer club on Sundays. I asked them if I could play. They were thrilled, but they said I would have to bring my own oxygen tank.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Hmmm - food for thought.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
I dress in uncomfortable ways (i.e. heels) mostly because my line of work sometimes demands that I do (I'm an instructor--we're expected to dress professionally). I also do it because I feel attractive when I do, and I feel the same way about makeup. I don't always wear these things (today it was t-shirt, jeans, clunky sandals and no makeup),but I don't feel nearly as attractive.

Beauty shouldn't be linked to what we wear, makeup or otherwise. Unfortunately, we live in a society that expects that sort of thing. I feel that I am a rather plain brown person, so doing a few things to make myself feel a little prettier is a good thing.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Heh. Actually, a t-shirt and jeans look is, or at least can be very fetching.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
That's actually very encouraging. Especially since that's my favorite "off-the-clock" wardrobe. If I could get away with it, I'd teach in that garb. I like to feel pretty and dress nicely, but I like to be comfortable too. I've never really equated comfortable with being attractive. I don't know why, really. Maybe because society has endoctrinated me a bit. Who knows?

It is nice to know that t-shirts and jeans can be attractive.
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
To be honest, I find clothes that are comfortable to be far more fetching than the typical plaster on stuff most girls seem to be wearing. It's the body that's beautiful, and we can all see it best when it's lithe and free; that's what's attractive.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Men tend not to notice outfits as much as women do except in broad strokes and general terms.

As Margarita mentioned, confidence, personality and bearing does more to convey beauty and attractiveness than high heels or high fashion.

A neat jeans and t-shirt look will always win out over a tacky or slovenly fashion statement. Unless you're trying to revive the grunge look.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
Eww no. I was never a part of that grunge thing anyway (I was married by then---then divorced after it ended). You are right, confidence and other inward things make true attractiveness. It's funny, I'm 37 and still trying to work all that out. I think I missed a lot during my twenties. In someways, I feel like I'm living my true twenties now.

As Forrest Gump's mama would say, "Pretty is as pretty does."

Trevor--it's good to hear a man's POV. We women get caught up in the silly stuff like shoes (yes, I have a shoe addiction) and makeup.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Snicker. I was chatting with a friend's girlfriend about shoes - I repeated Jeff Foxworthy's comment about the number of shoes I have and the express purpose each pair of shoes serves.

She started with, "well, these shoes go with this outfit but it won't match another so..."

That's where I realized the genders had two, entirely different standards.

I am of the firm opinion that women dress to impress other women moreso than men, if only because men aren't going to appreciate the nuances beyond, "wow, you look great!"

-Trevor

Edit: Why do I keep hearing that country song, "Did I shave my legs for this?"

[ September 19, 2004, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
Ok, now that's funny! I think we do dress for other women. There is status in dress, at least within our female culture. Still, there's something wonderful about a man saying, "You look great!" (Probably because I haven't heard that in a long time...being single stinks!).
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Psst! Jess!

You look...wow!

-Trevor

P.S. Great is just so overrated as a reaction.
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
AWWW... now see, you made me smile. I can go to sleep tonight knowing I look wow.
I knew there was a reason I liked you. You're funny and kind. hehe

Boy, I do need to sleep!

[ September 19, 2004, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
Storm! Your blunt honesty is just beautiful!

Although those potato sacks are pretty @#$@ scratchy.

UH--where did Storm's post go?

[ September 19, 2004, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
I saw it too Jess - you're not hallucinating.

-Trevor

Edit: And Jess, do I really want to know about your personal experience with potato sacks?

[ September 19, 2004, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
Darn! That means those mushrooms haven't kicked in yet (kidding! just kidding!).

I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating. That was pretty funny. Where did it go?

Uh...no...you don't need to know that...hehe

Come on, I live in the sticks. I've seen potato sacks before.

[ September 19, 2004, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Hey, I understand entirely - Mellow Mushroom pizza does that to me too.

As to where the post went - I dunno. Maybe Storm felt self-conscious about his brief bout of honesty?

-Trevor
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
See, yes.

Wear? That's another story in and of itself.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Maybe Storm realizes when he's misread what someone was saying and that what he wrote was probably going to be interpreted as an attack. Like, you know, saying that someone isn't usually honest in how they post.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Storm, you are one of the funniest posters on these boards and I have never had cause to doubt the honesty of your posts.

Your earlier post was both funny and a completely factual statement about men and our outlook on fashion.

As for my comment about your "brief fling with honesty", I realize it sounds like an attack, but that's not how I intended it. I should have included a but I thought the humor would have been relatively apparent.

I apologize for any confusion.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
 
Storm, the thing I appreciate about you is your honesty. That and you're damn funny. I wouldn't have dreamed of attacking your comment. You made me laugh out loud here at my desk. Don't pull your comments like that! When comments disappear, my head swims. Makes me doubt my sanity (it is a fleeting thing, you know).

Trevor--I like Mellow Mushroom too. Though usually it's the beer that gets me (when I actually have one).

[ September 19, 2004, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
*blush* imogen, I guess it defeats the purpose of my post to say that the reason I look decent in the pictures in foobonic are because they're prom pictures, where I'm all dolled up. But without the hair that way, and the makeup and stuff, I'm NOT pretty!!

blacwolve and breyerchic: No, I'm not. But thanks.
 

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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
Raia: Seen foobonic pictures.

Hard to believe what you say (that you're not cute).

Anyway...I find it amazing how women can notice minor details about each other clothes, hairdo, noses, skin, etc. Really, really amazing.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Raia, that's the entire point of the thread.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
Right... I knew that.

<-- didn't get much sleep last night.

And Eduardo:
 

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Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
 
Girls consistently claim they're not pretty without their fake stuff, but it often isn't true. Frankly, I'm not sure they understand what pretty is, especially in certain cases....
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
I'm the prettiest without anything at all.


 

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Posted by Lucky4 (Member # 1420) on :
 
While definitely subscribing to the idea of "plain" clothes and a confident smile, I still find myself obsessing over the details at times. When I'm honest with myself, I believe it's because obsessing about clothes, makeup, shoes, and physical flaws is sometimes easier and less painful than obsessing about my personality and character flaws. Afterall, despite any amount of obsessing, I could never really change how I looked, but if I started really thinking about my other flaws, I might have to actually change something. So bring on the shoes...
 

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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
Kama


 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Funny Kama, I didn't see that picture up...I'll have to take another look though.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
There are no pictures. you get to see nekkid Kama irl, but only if you deserve it.

(and very few have, so far )
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*pouts*
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Ya know, I prefer that answer to the idea that I somehow managed to overlook such a picture.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
rivka? what did you do to me when I was sleeping? Is this why you insisted on leaving the lights on at night?
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
I don't know if she did anything, but she shares a similar interest in those haribo bears...connection?



-Trevor
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
I have to take a moment to defend high-heeled boots.

I love them. The pair I have are knee-high, black leather, and they are the most comfy shoes I own. I wear them with everything, everywhere.

So that's why I do it.

Also, I like to feel way sexy. : )

That is all.

[ September 19, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
 

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Posted by Allegra (Member # 6773) on :
 
High-heeled boots can be great, but when you wear them for a long time your feet(or at least mine) hurt. If I am not going to be standing and walking a lot I can wear them and be perfectly comfortable. The question is more why would I wear them to a music festival where I had to stand for 4 hours?
 

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