I think he is speaking of homocides, but not including abortions.
And how many more people have died of AIDS than the war in Iraq?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
How many have died of car accidents?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
This could go on forever.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
How many killed by threads going on forever?
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Well, for that matter, I'm pretty sure more people died of traffic accidents than at the hands of Al Qaeda... Yet, we haven't instituted a War on Traffic.
[ September 14, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Spoken like someone who does not commute, Xap.
I am a soldier in the war on traffic.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:Yet, we haven't instituted a War on Traffic.
Oh, I think Bob has. Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Here is the problem, as I see it, with TSB.
He comes out, makes his pronouncements from on high, and then goes back into the desert.
He is not interested in discussion. He just wants us to hear his voice.
msquared
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
No, spoken as someone who DOES commute - and in DC traffic, at that.
We should just ban cars - think how many lives we could save....
[ September 14, 2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
quote:And your definition of terrorist is?
Thor doesn't know what a definition is.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: He comes out, makes his pronouncements from on high, and then goes back into the desert.
He's not as bad as want2write was.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The ones that survive the mods aren't as bad.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
It's pretty hard to come up with a definition of terrorism that does not include things we've recently done, though. We've had military operations we specifically stated were designed to induce fear among Iraqis. We've intentionally bombed buildings and knowingly killed civilians. We've supported groups trying to overthrow their governments. We've captured and tortured potential innocents.
I suppose you could define terrorism as only including acts whose sole objective is to harm innocent civilians, but that would exclude a great many of the instances we normally call terrorism (bombing of the U.S.S. Cole for instance.)
[ September 14, 2004, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Such is war.
Sherman understood it.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Still not a definition, Xap.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Xap, was our goal ever to kill civilians. Yes, we've done some things that we knew could not help but kill some civilians, but was the killing of civilians ever the object of any operation?
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Xap
I might agree with you that that Cole probably was not a terrorist act. What would you call it? An act of war? At least it was an act against a military target. What if they had done that against a cruise liner?
The military may have done a few actions which were meant to instill fear in the Iraqi's. Or to be more precise, the Iraqi militiary. That would not be terrorist.
msquared
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
mr_porteiro_head, So you don't think the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole (or other attacks on American military and government facilities - like the Pentagon or our embassies) is terrorism?
ms, I would call the bombing of a cruise terrorism.
And let's not forget we did drop bombs on government buildings in Baghdad - some of which were nonmilitary - not just to provoke fear in the Iraqi military but also as a demonstration of power to all the Iraqi people and their government.
[ September 14, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:He comes out, makes his pronouncements from on high, and then goes back into the desert.
Silverblue Sun's been doing this since before he was Silverblue Sun, porter. Throw some Jimi Hendrix references, pronouncements of grandeur, and a good heart into the equation and you've got Thor in a nutshell.
[ September 14, 2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
tres -- I don't see how you can get that out of what I said. You said that we knowingly killed civilians. I asked if that was ever the goal of an action, or the unfortunate consequence. You have not answered me.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Xap-- when did you move to the DC area? I though you were still @ UVA, or wherever. . .
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
mr_porteiro_head ,
What I meant was no, I don't think we have, but that doesn't preclude us from being terrorists unless you think all those other actions that weren't aimed solely at killing civilians weren't terrorism either.
Scott, I came back when I graduated. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Tres, what actions are you talking about? When I think of acts of terrorism, all of them involve deliberately killing civilians.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
As I said... bombing of the U.S.S. Cole (military ship), flying a plane into the Pentagon (military headquarters), bombing American embassies (government facility), assassination plots against U.S. officials, attacks against U.S. or foreign troops in Iraq, etc.
In each of these so-called terrorist acts, the primary goal was not the killing of civilians. Some didn't even involve civilian deaths at all.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Anyone who cuts me off on the road is a terrorist and deserves the Finger of Freedom.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
The USS Cole was in peacetime dock. At the very least using a civilian plane to fly into the Pentagon is terrorism. Although if there really were a war then attacking the pentagon could be construed as an act of war rather than an act of terrorism. Embassies are off limits during peacetime or wartime. Assasinations of government personell is generally considered against the "rules" of war although that technically is terrorism in and of itself because you're specifically targeting individuals.
Anyone who isn't in the military is considered a civilian so all except the Pentagon and USS Cole inherently include civilian deaths.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Assasinations of government personell is generally considered against the "rules" of war although that technically is terrorism in and of itself because you're specifically targeting individuals.
We did target Saddam. And his sons, among others. Terrorism?
quote:Anyone who isn't in the military is considered a civilian so all except the Pentagon and USS Cole inherently include civilian deaths.
We also bombed the Iraqi government ministries. If the government officials and employees who worked there were civilians, then we did in fact intentionally bomb civilian targets as the primary goal of an operation.
[ September 14, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by The Silverblue Sun (Member # 1630) on :
I think it is time for us all to define the word terrorist.
In the last 3 years, 50,000 Americans have murdered Americans in America.
I do not know how many Americans have died on the roads and highways of Our Nation, but I'd give an educated guess of it being in the hundreds of thousands.
Vehicular terrorists?
I was raised in a small town and have grown into a city boy. Chicago. Arlington. Dallas. Los Angeles. Houston. Denver. Austin and now Houston.
I've never felt more terrified of the people around me, driving, working, living.
It's a city of fear.
I am more worried about the actions of my fellow Americans than I am of Al-queda or Islam.
The Atomic Bomb is the ONLY thing that changes that state of fear. If the bad guys get their hands on the BIG BOMBS. We're all fubar'd.
America stumbles bloodily back 1000 years or more and all of Earth slides with it.
...but I had to outgrow my total fear of the atom bomb when I was 15. It used to give me nightmares on nightmares.
Now, 17 years later there atom bombs are scattered all over nations and in the hands of semi-sane crazy madmen and the total friggin' craziest of madmen are trying to get their hands on them.
Secure the Atom Bombs.
End the War.
Figure out a better way of living for everyone.
End the War.
End the War.
End the War.
A nation can declare war on another nation, a band of lunatics CANNOT declare war on the world, they can only commit the grossest of crimes, and should then should be penalized in a way that is justice.
I promise.
I won't kill you, I won't kill anyone.
If we can get 95% of EARTHLINGS to understand why this should be the way, the rule and the path of all men and women, it would be easier to seperate those 5% who insist on murdering.
I'm terrorized by Islamic Terroirsts, I'm terrorized by Saudi Terrorist, I'm Terrorized by North Korean Terrorists, I'm Terrorist by American Terrorists.
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