Yes, yes, it's a bit late. This grew out of a conversation I had and I'd like to post it now. So sue me.
/does Superman trick turns the clock back to Monday
On this Labor Day I'd like to thank one group of neglected Americans who patriotically stuggled for the rights of workers and are most responsible for the things we celebrate today, such as the 40-hour work week, employer liability, job safety regulations, the living wage, unions, etc. They are: American communists.
Without the dedicated hard work of these men and women, it's unlikely that our current work environment would be anywhere near as amicable towards workers as it is. However, they as a group have been consistently painted as being only evil, immoral traitors bent largely on forcing or subverting the U.S. into Russia's power. To me this does a great diservice to the many many people who were primarily motivated by an altruistic desire to move the world to a better place.
So today, Labor Day, I want to extend my gratitude to the patriotic American communists of history.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Are you talking about the actual communist party that accomplished those things, Squick, or just people whose ideals were in line with communist ideals?
Posted by digging_holes (Member # 6237) on :
I think they used to be Canadians.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Scott, errr...a little of both really. I'm definitely not on baord with some of the stated goals of Communist party, but it's my belief that many of their goals were laudatory and that most of their individual members where much more concerned about improving the lot of the working man than they were about the more objectionable parts of the agenda. The thing is, we live in a society that bashes the heck out of communists, even while having a national holiday that recognizes extremely important achievements that they were principly responsibile for.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Here here! Without my union I wouldn't get Sunday halftime. Which is the only real reason to work on Sunday... to get the extra money I could not survive without it. Plus, our union got us extra money. We nearly went on strike. Without the union it would be like working at Walmart and we'd just get less than 7 dollars an hour no matter how long we worked there instead of periodic raises.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I get the idea that you're not really interested in the actual history of the day, but in the principles that better working conditions for the American laborer.
In the history of the labor improvements you've mentioned, the communist party doesn't really factor in as far as I can see. The Socialists, yes; the Communists never really got much of a foot in American society.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
As long as they were peacefully advocating communism, Scott, do you think they should have been allowed to do so?
Also, to be fair, in addition to the unions, many industrialists such as Ford and Elbert H. Gary, I believe, lead the way in improving workers' conditions.
[ September 09, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Storm Saxon ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
How to make Communism work.
The tricks are to be a Stalininst Communist,
and of course
to be Stalin.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I don't have a problem with communists peacefully organizing, no.
I am Stalin, so I'm good with all that.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I know my question regarding communists was kind of off topic, but I'm honestly interested in discussing it, since it might have relevance to actions we are undertaking here in the U.S. and abroad.
Posted by WraithSword (Member # 6829) on :
Industrialists also fought tooth and nail against unions, frequently this private warfare was very harmful to the workers.
Look, I'm glad that we have black people living in the land of the free and all, but I don't admire the slave traders for shipping them over here in chains. I'm glad we have good Vietnamese/Cambodian cuisine and so many smart polite doctors and scientists, but I'm not about to tender thanks to Pol Pot and the Kmer Rouge. I'm glad we understand convection systems like Hurricanes well enough to predict their behavior but I'm not about to shake the hands of the murdering idiots that incinerated Dresden.
I think that our labor laws would be a lot more "amicable" towards actual workers if things had been a bit different in our history. Putting that aside, I wouldn't thank Communists for it even if I liked the system that much.