Well, I got pretty sick of being in worse shape than my Dad at 16 years old.
I knew that at my age, I should be in much better shape than I am, so I called a friend who has weight-training equipment in his basement, and started working out. He showed me how to use the stuff and gave me a basic idea of what to do, but he is no expert, and I want to know I'm doing it right.
Since this is my time ever lifting weights, he said I should start with three sets of ten reps of each of the following, for the first two weeks:
Seated Bench Press Tricep Pushdown Lat Pulldown Leg Press Bicep Curl Leg Lift Pectoral Flies Preacher Curl
As to weight, I use enough to get through my first set fine, towards the end of the second set I'm sore enough that I would normally give up (but I'm determined, so...), and by the end of the third set, my eyes are squeezed tight and I'm pushing for every inch.
On the normal (not seated) Bench, I've been a bit confused. I started on my first day doing ten pushes with 65 lb (bar included with each), 8 with 75 lb, 6 with 85 lb, and 4 with 95 lb. It felt good, my muscles were really burning and I was working my *$$ off toward the end of each. On the next day, though, I was too sore to finish the set of eight, so I did ten with 65 and ten with the bar. Yesterday, I did the first day's procedure up to 3 with 85lb. So, you can see I'm having a hard time finding a balance.
After I finish everything, I run a mile, shower, and go to bed.
I've heard that it can be destructive to work the same muscles to exhaustion day; should I be working the legs one day, and upper body the next? Should I be doing different exercises thant he ones I have listed?
Also, I am really tight in the areas I worked the next day. I mean, if I've worked my triceps, I have a hard time fully extending my arm to get a pencil. Should I be stretching before or after? How?
Thanks, and if I'm not clear, please ask me to clarify.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
In general, you should not be doing serious resistance exercise two days in a row on the same muscle group.
The second thing to realize is that soreness is good if 1) it starts about 12-24 hours later, 2) lasts no more than 36 hours after it starts, and 3) involves the muscle, not the joints. You'll learn the difference between good and bad pain pretty quickly.
My rule was always to not work a group until the soreness was gone. For me, this was a 3-day cycle, something like:
chest/shoulders/triceps day 1 back/biceps/forearms day 2 legs day 3 repeat 1-3 rest etc.
If this is the first time doing weights, I'd reccomend getting someone to show you proper form for each. Concentrate on form more than weight.
The cool thing about weights is how fast you see results, especially the first time.
Dagonee
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
I like how you've separated your stuff, but I don't know how to separate mine...it seems like most of them do a bunch at once. Would you mind giving an example with my exercises (adding or removing as you need)?
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
I started to weight-train three months ago, for the same reasons you did. A little overweight, bad shape, etc. But I would advise you to
1) Find a doctor and have some check-up, so you may know how much exercise you can take. 2) Go to an academy, gym, etc. at least for a month, so an instrutor can evaluate you and give you a proper set-up and series of exercises.
After a while, when your body is already adjusted to the exercise and you already know what to do, you can do it on your own, if you must.
But, again, I'd like to stress how important it is for someone to seek a doctor before starting regular exercises.
[ August 25, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Eduardo_Sauron ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Eduardo has good advice. You may want to read some of these discussions.
You'll have to read through a lot of posts to find a good beginner's workout, but it's in there.
Dagonee
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Opinions differ, some people advocate the push until you burn and then push more, others suggest a moderated approach.
Working the same muscle group back to back is damaging because the muscle needs time to rebuild after you tear it down lifting.
Try breaking your exercises into opposing groups:
Bicep/shoulder, tricep back, chest legs, abs
As for your exercise selection:
Seated Bench Press
Tricep Pushdown
Lat Pulldown
Leg Press
Bicep Curl
Leg Lift
Pectoral Flies
Preacher Curl
Seated Bench Press - if this is the one I'm thinking of, you're leaning back at an angle? Good chest work.
Tricep pushdown - that's what I started with, but I got better results using a tricep extension with reverse curl on a straight bar. Try both and see which one gives you a better burn in the arms.
Lat pulldown - good back exercise, but I was never a big fan.
Leg press - gah. Hate those, but good to do.
Bicep Curl - time-honored tradition.
Leg lift - again, hate working legs, but good to do.
Pec flyes (butterflye extensions) - good choice.
Preacher curls - gah, hate these. You should use less weight on the Preachers than you do individual bicep curls because of the isolation factor. The Preacher Curl works to isolate your arms, focusing more of the workout.
Rep and Intensity: If you want bulk, you do high reps, low weight. If you want strength, you do low reps, high weight.
If you're straining at the end of the third set, I'd suggest stepping the weight down by five or ten pounds - you're not on a time table and you don't want to burn yourself out.
I'd recommend breaking your weight routine into the following: Monday: Bicep/tricep, cardio Tuesday: Cardio Wednesday: Legs, abs, cardio Thursday: Cardio Friday: Chest/Back
If you want to emphasize your upper body, add a shoulder/back on Tuesday and a Bicep/tricep on Thursday.
Above all: check your form! You do yourself no good if you use heavier weights and have a sloppy form. If your buddy has a mirror set up, watch yourself in the mirror.
You should be able to displace the weight in question without cheating - if you have to cheat, you're using too much weight and you need to reduce the load.
Good luck, Trevor
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Dag gives good advice, but if you're not pressing that much, it may be more complex than you need. When starting, you (or I, anyway) don't need to concentrate on more than four key areas, all of which can be solved with free weight exercises -- alternate between the bench press, the power clean, the squat, and the military press/bicep/tricep lifts. Every M/W/F/Sat., the football team would lift this series, and we went on to be the champions/near champions every year I was in high school -- the power it gives you is incredible.
The bench press is the most basic and important of these -- make sure you have someone spotting you, at least at first, and do everything in pyramid sets. That is, a set of 10 reps at a basic level, a set of 8 reps at a slightly higher level, a set of 6 reps at a slightly higher level than the one before it, a set of 4 reps at an even higher level, a set of 2 reps at your highest, then back to 4 reps at the previous level, 6 reps at the next, then 8 reps, then 10. It'll burn like hell.
On a related note, don't ever lock your arms while lifting. It makes it easier to hold the weight up, but all you're doing is putting the stress on your joint and its cartilage, not your muscles. If the weight's gotta fall, let it down with as much control as you can muster (thick rubber mats are a good idea), but don't think locking your arms or knees helps you in the least.
When you start advancing to heavier weights, you can choose to focus on your chest and your arms in alternate pyramid sets, albeit at lighter levels -- to exercise your chest, move your hands far out along the bar, to the point where your arms are extended and don't necessarily flex when you rep, but aren't locked. To do your arms, put your hands as close together in the middle of the bar as your wrists are comfortable with repping, and go from there.
You're not doing bad for your age at all. Just don't follow up day after day with lifting -- like Dag and Eduardo have pointed out, you need to give the muscle groups at least a day to recover. What you did, or so I'm told, is tear the muscles when you lifted, and they need time to rebuild themselves stronger than they were before. If you press yourself on and don't give them a chance to do so, you're not making yourself any stronger and run the risk of hurting yourself.
The power clean's probably the second most useful weightlifting exercise around, but it's surprisingly rare -- I haven't seen it in any gyms but my home one. Possibly because it's one hell of a noisy, room-consuming workout -- essentially, it's a bench-press bar with large rubber weights. You deadlift it, then "jump" it to your chin, then let it fall back to your thighs, let it touch the ground, back up to your thighs, "jump" it to your chin, rinse and repeat. You can do as the Olympics does and press it once you get it to your chin, but there's no real point in doing so given you're already working out your arms in other, more focused methods, and trying to do so just limits the weight you'd normally be doing with a simple power clean.
For this one, it's very important you have a) a weight belt, b) a spotter, and c) prior instruction. It's not an easy technique to master, and you can seriously hurt your back if you lift the weight the wrong way -- you'll normally be power cleaning roughly the same amount, if not more, of what you bench. Make sure you lift with your legs, not your back or arms, and learn to rest the weight on your shoulders, not your wrists, once you get it up. When you're done with the exercise, I usually just let it slam back down onto my thighs then lower it to the ground, but I don't think I could've done that when I was starting out -- rubber mats are practically a necessity for this one, because I can promise you you'll be dropping it from your shoulders on a regular basis once you get started. Which means, heh, yes, this is best restricted to your garage or driveway, assuming you have either, or even a backyard -- just make sure you're on solid ground or concrete while you're doing it. You don't want the ground shifting under you while you have 200 lbs. balanced to fall on your neck if you slip backward.
All that said, though, the power clean vies with the bench press for the most useful lifting exercise I've ever had. It works the legs, the arms, and most importantly, the back. You won't realize how important that power is until you have it.
The next most important weightlifting tool is the dumbell. Bicep curls are damn useful creatures -- sit at the end of a weight bench, put your elbow on the inside of your knee (to brace it from moving backward, not to support it in any way), and use whatever weight set you think you can handle. Pyramid schemes are useful here, but you'll be fairly worn out from the prior two exercises. It's a self-explanatory exercise -- just make sure you bring your arm up the entire way every time, and "curl" your wrist in as you lift (doing so works the forearm).
The next one is the military press. Get what you called a "seated" weight bench, set it at a 45 degree angle, and take two heavier weights in your hands. I'm not sure what would be appropriate for you -- I prefer 70 lbs., but that's after a couple years of lifting. Maybe 45 lbs.? You'll know once you start. Make sure your back's straight (it's easy to put too much weight on your lower back, here), "jump" the weights from your knees to your shoulders by bouncing your knees up and lifting with your arms to get the dumbells to your shoulders, then lift like a bench press, straight up. The first one's always the most difficult, because you're adjusting your grip on it -- take a second at the apex of your lift to get comfortable, then bring it down to touch your shoulders, and lift up again. Do a set of five at 8 reps apiece, after each set putting them down as gently as possible -- you do NOT want to weaken your dumbells so maybe eventually they'll snap in half as you're lifting them above your head. (True story to someone else at my old gym.)
Tricep exercises are also fairly easy, but you're going to be tired as sin by this point and probably not want to indulge. Or maybe I'm just projecting my own weaknesses on you. If you feel like you need them, get a flat weight bench and put the knee on it corresponding to the arm you want to work out -- that is, if you want to work out your right arm, put your right knee on the bench. Have your dumbell in easy reach on the other side of the bench, reach down, lift it up -- then bring your elbow up so your bicep's parallel to the weight bench, and your forearm's at a 90 degree angle from there, perpindicular to the weight bench. Without moving your elbow, lift the dumbell so your arm's straight, completely parallel to the weight bench. This should be fairly difficult -- if it's too easy, try moving up in weight. You'll be able to judge for yourself after a little practice. Do sets of eight, as before, and try to get at least five sets in.
Squats aren't as fun as the power clean, and work out fewer muscles, but they're great for power. Before doing anything, practice with putting the bar, unweighted, on your shoulders and going down. You should have your feet at shoulders' width, your arms reaching out out to either side of you on the bar, and your butt stuck out like you're a wealthy white man who suddenly finds himself in a poor colored neighborhood. The butt part's important, as ridiculous as you may feel -- it takes weight from your lower back and transfers it to your legs. Using a weight belt is a necessity for this exercise.
The squat annoys me, if only because half the battle is keeping the damn thing on your shoulders in the first place -- at my old gym we had a neat little bar with a padded, weighted yoke which balanced so perfectly we could use our hands to brace ourselves for perfectly straight up-and-down lifts. When I was doing that, I never tested my limits for how much I could do at any given time, but I'd gone up to using, what, 365 lbs. in a set. But then it was replaced with the standard straight-bar deal, and I haven't used it much since -- I was spoiled by that yoke, and it'll take me time to get comfortable with a bar again.
Anyway, heh, my point is, on most sets, the bar's just a standard bench-press bar. It'll take practice to get comfortable with resting it on your shoulders, especially once you put on some truly heavy weights. As an unimportant note, there's often a small pad on the bar designed to cushion, however uselessly, the bar against your neck. If you're one of those looking for meaningless respect in a gym, don't use it -- if you're using a trainer, which I strongly suggest you do until you have some degree of mastery over your established habits, he'll be impressed. If not, then go ahead, nobody cares.
Abs are also a crucial element of a good workout -- my usual set, when I do them, is 25 situps, followed by 25 crunches, followed by 25 left-side cruches, followed by 25 right-side crunches, followed by 25 crunches, followed by 25 situps. The crunches are the crucial part -- to do them, left your legs up at a 90 degree angle with the ground, and bend your legs so your calves are parallel with the ground. Don't let them drop. It's GREAT for your lower abs. Also, when doing crunches, get your shoulderblades off the ground on every rep, else they're largely useless.
You should be burning after you're through with the exercises. If you're not, you haven't gone fast enough or done them correctly -- and believe me, dude, it's a nice, nice burn.
There's also potential use of barbells, which are nice, if you're into them. There are three basic exercises for them that I know of -- one, put your hands at shoulder width on the bar, let the bar hang at your waist, then lift directly to your chin. After ten reps of that, proceed directly to flipping the bar back behind your shoulders, then press it straight up from there -- another set of ten. The third exercise is curling, but I don't like doing them on straight barbells for the sake of my wrists -- but I'm a pretty big guy, and it may be subjective. If you can, though, see if there are any preacher bars lying around and do your curls on those, if you aren't keen to stick to dumbell curls. They're great little creatures.
Huh. I guess that's largely it, for me -- I prefer all free weights. Machines are almost all uniformly terrible, at least in comparison to free weights -- they work out a single muscle, but free weights force you to work out a great many muscles just to keep the exercise stable. The only machines that have ever given me a workout I couldn't duplicate with free weights are called "iso" (short for isolation, I believe) machines, but I can't remember their full names. In any case, they're largely unnecessary unless you're training for a specific sport -- if you just want to get healthy and buff, free weights are perfect for you.
School's starting up for you pretty soon, isn't it? See if you can join the football team. It's great companionship, at least in my experience, and, again in my experience, the training can't be replaced. Just never back down from a challenge, never tell your coach "no" to anything ("hey boys! Want to run another lap?" SAY YES, heh.), and give it your all. You may want to buy a neck brace, it looks like a roll of padding you put around your neck, under your helmet -- it'll almost certainly be useless for your training, since the risk of hurting your neck is far more minimal than you'd think, but it does wonders for your confidence.
Er. What else... I guess that's it, dude. If you're going to do the football thang, try to get to school now and see what's going on -- usually Hell Week starts a week or two before school starts, and you may not be allowed to join if the coach has rules about attending spring and/or summer training beforehand, but it's worth a shot. Just remember to never sit down, never say no, and always charge your opponent like Paris Hilton on a shopping binge.
Heh, okay, dude, good luck.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Hit your opponent like Paris Hilton facing a camera: low and hard.
-Trevor
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
quote: I'd recommend breaking your weight routine into the following: Monday: Bicep/tricep, cardio Tuesday: Cardio Wednesday: Legs, abs, cardio Thursday: Cardio Friday: Chest/Back
Cardio?
And I simply can't afford going to a gym where I can talk to a trainer or anywhere like that...it really isn't an option for me.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Cardio - exercise performed for the primary purpose of increasing your heart rate. The 1 mile jog you do? Keep running/walking for half an hour.
-Trevor
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
If you can't go to a gym or somewhere and get good instruction, then I would definitely recommend that you NOT do the power clean. If you use much weight at all with that maneuver, you must use proper form or you can really screw yourself up.
When I worked out seriously, I followed a routine similar to Dag's. When I cut back, it went to a 4 day/week routine separating my exercises into 2 groups done twice a week. Right now, at your stage, you're alright doing what your already doing but rest at least a day between workouts. I'm actually pretty surprised you could even get out of bed by the second day.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Technique and posture is HUGELY important. You could hurt yourself if you aren't lifting properly.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yes, all this advice is good. I will add that any exercise that tends to injure you needs to be scratched from your routine. Free weights are the most injury prone form of training I've ever done. Obviously if you keep getting injuries you aren't doing yourself any good, only harm. I just skip most standing things like squats now, since I kept getting injured. I do other exercises to work those muscles groups.
Slow is much better than fast, and works you far more. Go slowly with good form and you will get the most you possibly can out of every rep. Don't be egotistical about how much weight you lift. Be smarter than that. Do the workout that brings you maximum benefit. It's about your muscles, not your ego.
I want to recommend a technique called Inverse Pyramids which I love for weight training. You start with a light weight for the first set, and do 12 reps. This is just a warmup and should not be difficult. Increase the weight slightly and do 10 reps for the second set of the same exercise. This set should be a little bit hard, starting to engage your strength some. Third set increase the weight again and do 8 reps. This is the one for which you'd probably use the same weight you're lifting now. Fourth set go one weight higher and do 6 reps. It's ideal for maximum benefit if you actually work your muscles to failure during this set. When you press or pull as hard as you can and the weight just won't go.
(You need a spotter to push that hard, though. If you have a spotter, have them just barely touch the weight to help you to lift it, when your muscles stall out. If you don't have a spotter then don't push it to total muscle failure or else you can be like trapped beneath the bar and hurt yourself.)
For an example, using dumbbells for flys you might do 12 reps with 10 lb dumbbells, 10 reps with 12 lb dumbbells, 8 reps with 15 lb dumbbells, and 6 reps with 20 lb dumbbells. (That would be for a girl after she's been training for a while, probably. Dunno what would be right for a guy. Tailor it to whatever feels right for you and gives you the level of workout you want.)
Inverse pyramids are an extremely effective workout scheme, teaching your muscles how to jump up one weight level as fast as possible. When you always train at the same weight, the next higher weight seems very heavy to you. When doing inverse pyramids you get a great gradual warmup to prevent injury, and also work the muscle to an extreme degree. When you're ready to move up, it's no big deal just to ratchet up one level. You are used to the higher weight by then.
You are young but for old people I want to add one more warning. Weight training is just about the most intense muscle training you can do. If you don't want to be semi-invalid from soreness for a week, you have to moderate way back from the maximum workout you can do. Don't work each muscle group to failure, for instance. More than once I have worked my calves so hard that I had to walk around on tiptoe for a week, and could barely walk. It's not worth that. Go more slowly. (Oh and anti-inflammatories are the aging athlete's best friend. I take Vioxx and couldn't train nearly as much without it.)
[ August 26, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Rules consistent in all these posts:
1. Watch your form 2. Spotters are good 3. Low weight until you have good form and won't hurt yourself 4. Go slow to start with until you have a good idea for your limits 5. Free weights are fun, but it's easier to screw up - be careful
-Trevor
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I bet you could check out Body for Life from the library. I know it's trite but it worked to get us up and running.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I have the book - it makes for an interesting reference, but he's a little too perky for my taste.
I cannot and will not chant "Body-for-life" to time my reps.
-Trevor
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
uhn...the book actually tell you to do that?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Snicker - it's in the book somewhere.
And to be fair, it doesn't hurt to have something to focus on in mid-rep, but that particular mantra is just a tad...um...silly.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Well, it's that or
"I am great, I am wondeful, and gosh-darn-it, people LIKE me!"
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I really liked the Larry North book, for just strength training info, not necessarily the food stuff. : ) I'm actually very surprised you are doing thirty reps on each exercise as a spanking-new beginner. As a rule, I do very little of new exercises until I have the form perfect.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
My mantra would be "Fit body means great..."
Uhm, yeah.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Since he's aiming for bulk, he wants to do between 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps.
Since he's newbie to weights, he's doing his sets at full load without checking his form.
Hence my suggestion to scale back ten pounds or so until he's comfortable with his form.
-Trevor
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I would disagree TMedina. If he's looking for bulk, I would recommend about 8 reps/set. I think 12 reps will tone you up, but not put on much mass.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Ok, my friend is a wrestler so he knows how to do the weights; he checks my form and spots me on the bench. He just doesn't know how to design a course...
All the others (except the preacher curl) are on a machine, so I don't have to worry so much about self-injury.
You said separate by body groups; again, I don't really know how to do that, would you mind giving an example? Also, do I need more leg exercises?
quote: I'm actually pretty surprised you could even get out of bed by the second day.
It took some serious effort and an angry parent.
quote: Also, I am really tight in the areas I worked the next day. I mean, if I've worked my triceps, I have a hard time fully extending my arm to get a pencil. Should I be stretching before or after? How?
Can anyone help me with this?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Stretching should be done when the muscles are warm, so directly after the weights. I stretch each muscle for 20 seconds between sets, so a total of three times.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
And I'm not trying so much to "bulk up" really huge, but just gain muscle tone (and muscle for that matter), and get into fairly decent shape. I'm not shooting for body-building or weight-lifting.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
BTW, make sure you're eating some protein at every meal. You can't build muscles if you don't feed them. Muscles aren't built of twinkies, or whatever you kids eat these days. Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Going by Dag's recommendations, chest/shoulders/triceps means doing exercises that work out those muscles on that day. Bench press and flys work out chest, military press and shoulder raises work shoulders, tricep pushdowns and french curls work triceps, etc. Always start with the largest muscle group first and work down from there. For instance, if you started on triceps, when you got to bench press, they would be fatigued and you wouldn't be able to lift much and, therefore, not work out your chest like you should.
Looking at your list, I didn't see anything for shoulders there. You must remedy this. If this is a machine your using, I'm sure it has a military press station.
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Aren't trains heavy enough without adding extra weight to them? Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:Also, I am really tight in the areas I worked the next day. I mean, if I've worked my triceps, I have a hard time fully extending my arm to get a pencil.
This is a sign of muscle strain. I know this from experience. Exhibit my left arm That's what can happen. It was very close to a ruptured bicep, which suck ass. And I'm well versed in weight lifting.
Anyway, here's my recommendation to throw in the pot. Three days a week on weights using a split routine (that's what dagonee recommended). You're aiming for six or so different exercises, moving from working large muscle groups to small (like big target area to little target area), one group at a time. Three sets of 8=12 reps work, getting through the first set fine, struggling through the second half of the second, and then on however much you can do on the third. Start at being able to do only eight reps on each set. Once you can do 12 reps on each set without strain, move up the weights. There's a whole bunch of different ideas about rest times between sets. If you're aiming for weight loss/body shape change, I'd say go for keeping your heart rate up and only waiting 15-30 seconds between sets.
Also, you need to warm up your body before lifting, meaning, take a five minute jog on the treadmill or elliptical machine (till you break a sweat). This kicks up your heart rate throughout your routine. Any weights day, you want cardio. So at the end (or beginning, your choice) add 20-30 minutes of cardio on elliptical or treadmill (these are weight bearing and add more benefit than using the bike).
The day after a weight routine, just do cardio either by running 30-45 minutes or elliptical or whatever you prefer. Just get that heart rate up for at LEAST 30 minutes.
No lifting. You build muscle by causing little tears in it when you lift. So your muscle needs a day in between to repair itself and become stronger.
Watching your caloric intake is also important. If you put in as much as you put out, you won't lose weight. Actually, at first, don't look at the scale. Instead, watch how your clothing fits. Muscle weighs more than fat, so at first, you might GAIN weight. But here's the key--metabolism.
For each pound of muscle you put on, you burn an extra 50 calories per day just by existing (resting metabolism). So, the more fit you get, the more your metabolism ramps up. Of you're trying to lose weight, watching what you eat is very important. It's a math game. If you're eating more to compensate for the extra calories you're burning, you won't lose anything, and you'll just get frustrated.
Cardio is what gets the fat off. Weights are what ramp up your metabolism and give you muscle strength and tone. Stretch out AFTER you warm up so you maintain flexibility.
And...give yourself a goal. Find a sport you like and train for it. Something to make the working out interesting. The benefits are noticeable other than just how different your clothing fits or what the scale numbers say.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
So...a revised schedule. Tell me what you think:
Short run before and 30 minute run after on each day.
Day 1: Bench Press, Seated Bench, Flies
Day 2: Leg lift, Leg Press, shoulder exercise (I looked, and there is no military press tool...what other shoulder options do I have?)
Day 3: Preacher Curl, Bicep Curl, Tricep Extension, Lat Pulldown.
Repeat 1-3, and then a full dya of rest.
As to nurtrition, I've been trying to get at least one protein-based meal a day (steak, chicken, etc.). Anything else?
[ August 26, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: HRE ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Dag, Mack - can you give our young weight-lifter more specific examples of body grouping and exercises for them?
Group 1: Bicep/tricep, shoulder Group 2: Back, chest Group 3: Abs, legs
That's the grouping I used - obviously opinions will differ and I think HRE would like to see yours as well to better clarify what we mean by "groups."
Zg - I'll defer to your experienced opinion. Low reps, high weight builds overall strength and power while high reps, low weight builds tone and definition. Better?
Better visual reference: Olympic Weight Lifters look far, far different from the cover models of "Bulging Muscles" magazine.
If you've ever watched the people who dead-lift weight equal to a Volkswagon, they have less definition and tend to resemble small mountains themselves.
-Trevor
Edit: It's not so much "protein based" but rather include protein with each meal. You can use traditional sources like beef, chicken, etc. or you might turn to alternative sources like protein shakes, protein bars and so on.
Your buddy might be able to give you a better idea of protein alternatives to supplement your usual meals.
[ August 26, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Dear God...the guy looks like he's been attacked by a bunch of skin-burrowing lemmings!
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
See, that's the extreme example of people who are "body-building." And he's actually kinda small compared to some of the guys (and girls) you'll see on covers of some of the muscle-oriented magazines.
The other extreme, which I couldn't find a picture of, are the people who look like small mountains and can pick up a Volkswagon.
Nice, Goat.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Hey, you've got to put in plain cardio days in between weight days. Like this:
Day 1: 5 min warm up and stretch Chest: Chest press, chest flye, bench press Shoulders: Shoulder (overhead) press, Smith machine (shrug) Triceps: machine triceps extension, cable triceps pushdown, bench dip Cardio: 20-30 min
Day 2: 30-45 minutes of cardio
Day 3: 5 min warm up and stretch Legs: leg extension, leg curl, leg press, calf extention, squat on smitch machine, abduction, adduction Abs: roman chair, reverse curl, crunches Cardio: 20-30 minutes
Day 4: 30-45 minutes cardio
Day 5: 5 min warm up and stretch Back: lateral pulldown, cable seated low row, cable straight arm pulldown Biceps: preacher curl, dumbbell curl, barbell curl Cardio: 20-30 minutes
Day 6: 30-45 min cardio
Day 7: rest
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
quote:shoulder exercise (I looked, and there is no military press tool...what other shoulder options do I have?)
Do you have dumbbells available? There are many shoulder exercises you can do with a set of dumbbells. Actually, you can get a good workout period with just a set of dumbbells. When I finally quit paying money to the gym and decided to work out at home, I got a set of dumbbells before I bought the typical weight set. I highly recommend PowerBlocks . They're stackable dumbbells, so they take up a lot less space than a whole set of them. They look bulky, but it only took 1 day of using them to get used to them.
Trevor, I've always thought of it as 3 options, not 2. Strength and power come from heavy weight/low reps, tone and definition come from low weight/high reps and building mass is the middle road. I used to be very much into building strength, but somewhere along the line, I realized the benefits of looking like you could bench 300 lbs far outweighed the benefits of actually being able to do so. Of course, I don't get the benefits of either anymore.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I can't fault your analysis Zg - I certainly wasn't planning on competing in body builder exhibitions when I was hitting the gym. But if you don't aim for one of the two extremes, you end up with the middle course by default.
Dumb bells versus machines - when I first went to the gym, I spent a month using the machines. When I finally migrated downstairs to the weight room, I never touched a machine again.
In my opinion, you do get a better return on free weights, but it takes a certain comfort level before you start using the free weights. Of course, I used the cable machine for tricep reverse curls but mostly free weights.
Personally, I liked the gym for various reasons, moreso than stocking up weights in my admittedly small apartment. That said, I bought four hex dumb bells and can still hit all my major exercise groups, although you don't have the same number of options to explore.
And all the hot water you want is another added plus.
-Trevor
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Shoulder exercises:
As Zg mentioned, there are several shoulder exercises you can do with dumb bells.
And take my word for this, start off light until you know what your weight zone is. Shoulder injuries _suck_.
You can peruse exercise books to get an idea of the exercises - just a word of caution. Any time you try a new exercise, do it with the least amount of weight possible until you know what you're doing.
I used to have a good academic website that included animation of all the basic free-weight exercises, but it seems to have disappeared.
-Trevor
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I've had a lot of shoulder problems through the years. I don't even bother with exercises like the military press anymore. I just stick with the dumbbells. It limits me, but I don't have shoulder problems anymore.
Posted by Paercival (Member # 1408) on :
The most important thing is figuring out why you're weight lifting, and then performing actions that correspond do this. If you want to be fit, you SHOULD NOT do cleans. cleans/snatches/jerks are for athletes only, essentially. other than that, everything people say here looks good. Lower reps/set with more weight works fast twitch muscle fiber, more reps/set works slower twitch. The first is for explosion/strength, the second for prolonged muscle use - like distance running. The second will also make you LOOK bigger (generally speaking; there are always exceptions)
also, another tip if you want to LOOK strong, but actually be weaker, is to take a longish (3-5 minute) rest between sets. this increases muscle size but is slower for your muscles to get stronger.
General fitness should be 3 sets of 8-10 reps.
With your legs, you might want to consider adding something for your hamstrings because you have squats (quads) and leg extensions (quads) on there. This will create serious issues with the balance of your strength/flexibilty which WILL lead to injury.
Also, unless you want to look a little funny, you might want to add something for your calves as well, so that you work out the legs completely. There's nothign funnier looking than a gym-rat with chicken legs.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*snort* hahahaha. I love that visual.
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
What exercises what you suggest for hamstrings and calfs?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
leg extensions for hamstrings calf raises for calfs
...both of which were in the workout schedule thing I posted.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Yeah, but you're a girl. He needs to do manly exercises like calf raises and leg curls.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
lol
I just got back from my time at the gym. I'm definitely noticing pain still in my left bicep.
*glares at it*
I rested you, dammit!
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
I'm in the middle of a bad summer cold with a fever et al. Would working out still be OK at this time for me?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Not with a fever. If your body is sick, it means you rest.
Posted by Paercival (Member # 1408) on :
working out will delay recovery time, and since you're weaker you won't get much benefit from it. I'd recommend waiting until you are healthy again.
Ham Curls, they're called, for hamstrings. Leg extensions are for quads Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Working out tears down muscle fibers and recovery builds them back up again bigger and stronger than before. Obviously it's the recovery part that matters most. You only work out to set that process in motion, basically.
So it's totally nonsensical to do things that work counter to the very process you're trying to foster. When you're systemically sick, you lose lots of cells all over your body. You have to replace all those, which pretty much coopts the cellular protein making, regeneration mechanism for that. Also the immune system is trying to put out tons of t-cells, b-cells and so on to fight the disease. If you go ahead and work out at times like that, you just tear down more tissues that you really can't replace at the moment. It's doing the opposite of what you want.
My doctor said the rule is this. If you feel badly only from the neck up, then it's fine to run, exercise, work out, or do your normal routine. If you feel bad below the neck, in the rest of your body then don't.
Also drink tons of fluids. This helps clear all the waste products, dead cells, etc from your system and lets your immune system work better. Also sleep a LOT. Sleep is crucial to immune function. Also eat plenty of protein. All the things you are trying to get your body to build are made of protein. If you eat lots of protein you will be sure your body's cellular machinery isn't hung up waiting for building materials. Also eat enough calories overall to provide the energy that fuels the process. Chicken soup actually is excellent food when you are sick.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*mutter* then what the hell are leg curls?
because I know I work my hamstrings.
stupid things.
I should learn the names properly
At least today is a long bike ride day.
Posted by Paercival (Member # 1408) on :
leg curls are probably the same thing. i thought you said leg extension though?
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Since yesterday, I haven't felt well enough to crawl out of bed anyways, so I guess working out wasn't an option. Oh well.
I've been visiting some other sites, and some reccomend doing a full body work-out in one session, skipping a day, and repeating for the first 8 weeks, and then dividing the body up. What do you guys think about that?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*makes face at full body workout*
When I started out, I started doing split routines. But hey, whatever works for you.
...and yeah, I had both leg curls and leg extensions on there. And leg press. Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
quote: It was very close to a ruptured bicep, which suck ass. And I'm well versed in weight lifting.
Good night, woman.
Don't do that.
(Ow!)
On a related tangent, was it here that I read about Belgian Blue cows, the ones with the genetic defect that loses inhibition of muscle growth? If Noemon doesn't know about it, he should. Apparently there are noises about this for (unprincipled?) gene therapy in humans.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I read about those cows!
Apparently there are some humans that do that. I vaguely remember reading about it. I wish I could remember where.
And yeah, I'm not planning on rupturing my bicep. Did you SEE that photo? Holy crap. I couldn't fully extend my arm for three days. I had to use my OTHER arm to extend it!
And it hurt like a mofo. Woo buddy, did it hurt.
My physical therapist was Not Pleased.
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
You see, I'm thinking I don't want to run up against you in a dark alley, mack. 'Cause I doubt you were really all that mad at that free weight, yet you fwahhh-banged it enough to, like, nearly self-rupture a muscle.
I, uh, like you, mack. You my friend. No angry at me, I give you flowers. *nervous grin
[ August 28, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I suspect I'd squeal like a little girl and run.
Actually, my PT and I couldn't figure out exactly how I managed to strain it so badly.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As we've noted before HRE, opinions will differ and there isn't a uniform, "one size fits all" approach to fitness and exercise.
Personally, I put "full body workouts" in the province of professionals who have more time, energy and motivation to put forth than the average person.
-Trevor
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
You have a temper and an attitude Mac - I would have thought the answer obvious.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I have a 'tude?!
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Uh, yeah. Not an obnoxious one, but you tell me how often you back down or call it quits when you should.
With that mindset, I find it very easy to see how you managed to rupture a muscle and not notice until the next day.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Apparently I'm a bit stubborn.
A bit.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Snicker.
Says the bull in the china shop.
-Trevor
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
Woohoo! I just got to work out again for the first time since Tuesday! My friend wasn't home Weds or Thurs, and I was too sick yesterday.
I got up to my Day 1 capacity (I guess resting my muscles really helped) and then was able to add weight!
I feel good!
Posted by Paercival (Member # 1408) on :
Full body workouts work quite well; I've done them before, and am doing them again now. It allows you to do everything at once and get in a full day of rest without just resting certain muscle groups. And for athletes, it allows for full body training in a variety of ways. Again, if you're just doing this to be fit, I'd probably stay away from the full body workouts as they aren't what you are working toward. If you feel like they might work easier on your mind, then by all means do them, but, like everyone has said, there is no one method for everybody. whatever works for you is the way to do it.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
She's BACK! Falls down and worships the Sara Sasse
Yah, CT, did you see last month's Scientific American about gene doping? 'Twas very interesting and showed those cows.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<CT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love you, girl! So glad you're here now! Now the world is right again.
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(Oh and anti-inflammatories are the aging athlete's best friend. I take Vioxx and couldn't train nearly as much without it.)![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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