I know some of you have been kicking around the idea of turning my grandma letters into some sort of blog. I would be highly amused to see if you could get it ranked as high as you think you can. My only request is that you change the names to protect the innocent and not include the two letters from my father, but stick to Grandma only. I did a family tree in the book somewhere so you should be able to get consistent substitutions for names if you just reassign different names to all 21 of my cousins and 14 aunts and uncles.
I gave the main body of work to Tom Davidson with a few more letters to Fugu that I scrounged up at my house. Tom, you have my permission to give it to bernard, fugu, zevlag or Richard Berg (I think those were the people that concocted the idea)
It is weird, but having that binder out of my house feels really good. Like one less weight hanging off of me. I still didn't want to pitch it out or burn it, but I really didn't want to have it around either.
As long as the names are changed it might as well go out into the world to cheer up and amuse people since their lives are probably sane in comparison.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Here's the hatrack link to my previous grandma letters. If you are serious about this you might want to print these out because I'm not sure that all of the hard copies were in the file.
I think I found the CD she gave me, but I'm not sure if I was able to find a that first letter in the hatrack thread... I'd forgotten about that one.
AJ
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
Josh, Russell, and I have been talking/thinking about it on and off (mostly Russell and Josh throwing out ideas and me agreeing enthusiatically), and I would love to get a project like this going, it would be a wonderful change from making the school website for three months straight. Satyagraha
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
oh and I checked. Grandmablog.com belongs to a web greetingcard site.
AJ
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
I told Tom he should do a letter of the week (or month seeing as how we've had a lot of projects and little time) where he posted a letter with analysis/humour. A blog would be a great idea, though!
I can work on scanning them in and get them to you, but there are a heck of a lot, so it might take me/us a while.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
grandmafiles.com is available, however.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I know the scanning would be a pain, I'd divide and conquer with Bernard and Maydaye.
A public blog (where you were going for top 20 rankings)would need the names changed. If it was just on hatrack and plastic-castle I wouldn't be quite as concerned about the names especially if they were actual scan-ins. You lose so much without the handwriting.
I don't think one idea is necessarily mutually exclusive with the other. I don't suppose I can copywrite the letters, since I didn't write them to begin with.
AJ
[ August 18, 2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
.org and .net addresses are sometimes cheaper and less frequently taken. (just a thought)
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
quote:I don't suppose I can copywrite the letters, since I didn't write them to begin with.
Sure you can! Once you change the names, they're all yours! Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
I have a rather good quality scanner, and I have the slightest feeling that Tom, somewhere in his geeky house, has one as well. Though, Josh was saying that we wouldn't even need to scan them and just type of the text, however, I sorta like having the originals online (with names blacked out) for prosterity (I sure am using that word a lot).. Satyagraha
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I have a good quality scanner and I suppose I could keep up as new letters come in and e-mail to whoever is maintaining the site. But scanning all of those old ones would be both physically and emotionally draining.
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
I actually did get the pictures up today, so scanning might be an option. Its not quite as easy to do one-handed, though. *grin* I'll keep you posted...
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Also I'm not sure where it went, but there were a bunch of "before" pictures of my house that I suspect got put in that binder. Mayday did you see them?
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Hey Christy where are the Kama Con pictures? I looked on plastic castle but I'm not sure where to find them!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I've already sort of begun working on this. I think we need a public comment area and a place for public submissions. We also need a database that holds a transcription of each letter AND identifies major categories -- like "occult," "the importance of being saved," and "marriage" -- to make it easier to browse from one letter to another. Ratings (voted upon by users) are, of course, also essential.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Seriously somebody better print out the ones that are linked to on hatrack, cause I don't think I have a hard copy that one where she's telling me that I've been abducted and brainwashed like that poor girl in Utah.
AJ
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Pictures are here in the Hatrack gallery. They're several pages in since all our Hatrack photos are together.
Wow, you guys are insane. I thik I'll let you database the letters, then. *laugh*
[ August 18, 2004, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Christy ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Tom, let me handle the blog end. There's plenty of blog software out there that handles all those details and more. I'm getting some johncompanies space soon, and I'll host the blog there. Right now lets get a base group of letters scanned, transcripts made, names changed (we can digitally change them in the scans, too), and some basic commentary done. If we're doing this, we should do it right
Chronological is definitely the preferred order.
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
AJ: I put the pictures in the Miscelaneous folder, so Tom's probably got it.
And I volunteer to help with the blog/database/whatever in any way I can, even if it's just commentary. I have two other hatrackers and about five writters here that can help me...
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Wow, you guys are awesome. I can help with background commentary. Especially if it is done in small chunks. The old stuff is the most emotionally distant as well.
AJ
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
When I first heard of the idea, I thought it would go a little differently.
I could see it as a bit of a mock. Pretend you're the grandma, and you're worried about Banna's soul. So to protect her soul, you have simultaneously posted your letters to her on this website, so that you may also reach other lost children and bring them to Christ. You could have some great sections on the webpage about how the Find The Right Man, and how to raise your children properly, etc. These could be based off of the letters in style and sentiment.
Then you could put up the letters a few at a time and drag this on for months. It's quite possible you'd have a growing bunch of people reading it. Especially if it caught on in the blog-circle.
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
Brilliant! Parody granny advice columns!
It might be a small problem with finding the writer, however, but it's a stellar idea.
::so very up for it::
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
I agree that making it a thinly-veiled parody (in the grand web tradition) is an awesome but riskier plan. Of course, the "sign my guestbook for Jesus" link at the bottom can lead to the data-driven "real" site.
I'll help however I can, but be advised that my webdev skills don't really exist.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
You know...
I've read the letters and I know how unstable and cruel they have been. But it also seems to me that she has honestly loved you.
It's one thing to post them on a small internet community like this like this, but to publicly humiliate her seems to me selfish and tacky. Unless you get her permission to post her private letters to you on the internet, I wouldn't do it.
This is a group of real people, and it will cause them pain, no matter how much you change the names around. I understand they've caused you much pain, but will causing more pain make you the better person?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Grandma will never see them.
It's about taking control of the enormous power that all that guilt-tripping and coercive emotional blackmailing has had in AJ's life to date. It's starts when you're a little bitty kid and don't have the mental and emotional powers to see it for what it is or resist it. It's nestled deep into your psyche by the time you're an adult, and so much closer to your selfness than something external or recent, say from a new friend or significant other who begins to try to exercise undue power in your life.
I believe it's a very good thing for AJ to do. For one thing it will be hilarious. For another it will be liberating. Also, others who are perhaps not as free of the clutches of such family members yet as AJ is, might see this and be heartened. Just telling things publicly exactly as they are is an act of awesome power.
Grandma, if she ever finds out, can just deal. That's it. Grandma is motivated partly by love, but then so was Satan when he wanted ALL the children of God to be saved, and nobody lost, by giving up their free agency to him. All great virtues have great vices a hair's breadth away. The strait and narrow paths, as they progress and narrow, have chasms ever deeper on every side.
AJ, I think this is a fantastic idea. What would make it even better, more poignant and real, is if you can do it affectionately, even. Being as gentle as possible to the grandmas inside all of us.
[ August 19, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I do not think making this a parody would be a way to go; however, making them available on the internet would not, I feel, be cruel. If anything, I think AJ's grandmother would rather like the idea in some ways, her values being spread all over the world (even if, perhaps, few chose to emulate them).
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
AJ's grandma is a cruel bitch whose tortured AJ with emotional blackmail. What the appropriate resposne is, however, unclear.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
You know, I've had some people cause me incredible pain. I had fantasies about causing them pain too. But when I thought about it, I knew it wouldn't actually heal me. I would still hurt because of what they did, and it would simply inject more pain into the world.
It does help to be able to laugh at someone who used to have power over you. It loosens the psychological hold they had on you and puts you in control of your own life. But to then ridicule them in front of the whole world is going beyond healing and into revenge.
When I worked in mental health, I had to sign a paper saying I would never divulge the details of what the patients in my care did, even if I never dropped names. They said that there had been times when people were discussing and ridiculing patients in a public place, not even near the hospital, no names were dropped. Someone overheard them who knew the patient, and they were very hurt and angry.
She may never see them, but someone could tell her about them. It is the most public of places. Anyone, anywhere in the world can access it. You can't assume she won't know about it. But to say "She can just deal", when it isn't simply you going on to live your life, but you going on to put her up for public humiliation then you can't really say that you are better than she is.
We do not get revenge on Satan, nor has God tasked us with that responsibility. We simply defy him by leading honest, caring lives. He will come to his own justice by his own actions, not ours. Similarly, Grandma should come to her own justice by her actions.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Amka, it's not revenge. That's where we differ, I think. It's simply telling the truth out loud in public. It's not about the past but about the future. About finding one's way free of the coercion. At least that's how I see it. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I have to agree with Amka. AJ, I’m sorry. I know that sharing these letters with people has been very healing for you, and I certainly understand the desire to reinforce that she is the one out of line in your family, not you. And if this really is what you need to do to get over all the garbage she’s piled on you, then I hope it works.
But please think very carefully before you go any further. I’m worried that in trying to escape from these letters you’ll end up still giving them more weight in your life than they deserve. And I’m not sure that deliberate and public mockery of someone who is possibly mentally ill, no matter how much she has hurt you, is going to be the most helpful for you, in the long run.
Your life is all the proof you need that your Grandmother is wrong about you. Will exposing her to public ridicule really help you that much?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Also if it's done well, then grandma if she ever saw it would think "Finally! I'm justified! Now everyone can see how patient and diligent I am in raising my grandchildren up in the way that's right. I'm amazed that AJ would have posted this! Maybe she is finally starting to see the light." Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
Parodying and analyzing is going beyond posting the truth for all the world to see. Let the letters stand alone and speak for themselves if you must post them publicly, and get her permission. Of course, that won't be as popular a blog, and it is popularity we are seeking, isn't it?
[ August 19, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: AmkaProblemka ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Amka, you lost me when you started insulting AJ. How is that different from what her grandmother is doing?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Except I do not think this is an attempt at justice, retribution, or revenge. This is about catharsis, and reassurance, and, yes, humor.
AJ was raised in this very conservative environment with these attitudes accepted as good and true for most of her life. I can't guess how many times she has wondered which path is right, and why she has chosen this path that separates herself from her family.
Every time someone laughs at her Grandmother's letters, she knows that someone out there does not consider Grandmother's way even vaguely an option. Every time that someone laughs at the attempts to pull her back into the "fold", she gains strength to laugh as well, and not let further letters hurt her or work against the pillar she has made her life upon.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
What I said might have been ascerbic, but it was true.
From Banna in the first post:
quote: I would be highly amused to see if you could get it ranked as high as you think you can.
From Tom:
quote: Ratings (voted upon by users) are, of course, also essential.
Tom, in that quote, seems also to be advocating other people do something similar and then people rate the different letters.
[ August 19, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: AmkaProblemka ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
A) grandma doesn't have a computer.
B) the family is in such denial, that they'd never guess it was her as long as the names are changed.
C) The people in the family who are actually computer literate enough to possibly figure it out are her son-in-laws, who have no love lost for her anyway.
D) I agree with fugu. She's writing them to me for her own posterity. She would probably be happy knowing that her theological opinions have been publicized over the internet. Then she won't have to put Jack Chick tracts in phone booths any more.
I talked it over with Steve in depth about possible repercussions. For the family to get mad at me for doing it (and with the name changes it makes it far less likely they would just stumble across it) they would have to acknowledge what she is capable of. If they were able to do this rather than denying it, I believe it would be healing for everyone. If not, everything goes on the way it has been, and people on the internet can have a chuckle and realize that their crazy uncle Fred may not be that bad after all.
The letters are not me, I am not defined by those letters, though dealing with them has made an impact on my life. But I had to come to the point where I didn't feel defined by those letters where it didn't hurt, before I could actually allow them to leave. Knowing most of the people here, while I expect the site to be amusing, I think they would also understand the undertone of sadness and tragedy that is appropriate for the site in the fact that this is a real human being somewhere that thinks this way.
Of course there will always be people out there, who think it isn't a real person and someone is making it up. If it hadn't happened to me I'd think that too.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Fugu
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
On the rating thing. I never ever considered the fact that it might attract a wider readership until fugu mentioned it this weekend. I really don't think it will. This is why I would be amused if they could get the rankings.
And if that many people read, and are entertained by it, then perhaps like reading fiction it has taken them out of the drudgery of their lives for a moment and done a little bit of good. I guess it is because I want them to be used in some way other than hurt, some how turn it into good for other people even if it wasn't for me. As I said I only see good that could come if my own family would read them and acknowledge they exist. And even if that never happens, I don't see that evil has been done.
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Ami, look at the difference between your post and dkw's. Your posts talk about yourself and end with an insult to AJ. dkw's post is focused on AJ and the possible repercussions for her.
In a situation like this, the only influence anyone could possibly have is that of a friend. If you insult her, you are not a friend. You're not worried about hurt to her because you're willing to hurt her yourself. Why should anyone listen?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
And, while I've considered it, it just seems a shame to burn them. If I don't, then what do I do with them? This seems as good an idea as anyway.
AJ
[ August 19, 2004, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Modern art. I'm thinking collages with pictures, headlines, laquer, twisted wire, and a Hard Rock Cafe t-shirt.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
katharina,
I agree, dkw was much better at stating some points than I was.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
kat -- you saw the boxes, too? Those were great!
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Well, to be completely honest, while my primary concern is for AJ, I also have more selfish reasons for not wanting her to base a parody site on the letters.
Comedy based on putting people down is not a meme I like to see promoted, no matter how deserving of it someone might seem to be.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
dkw, I see your point and am considering it. However, I think nearly all comedy is a form of putting something down. The choice is always whether to laugh or cry.
AJ
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
A lot of comedy is that, but the very best comedy makes us laugh at ourselves.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I would still maintain that laughing at oneself is merely to avoid crying.
AJ
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Oh please. As if you could put a dent in the armour this woman has wrapped herself in. Anna, the only *real* danger you face in putting these letters online is that she'll "fear" for your soul even more and send you letters more often.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Your talk of "safety" strikes a chord with me CT.
While I realize the reaction may have not been entirely rational myself, I'm not dealing with rationality either.
There have been times, when I truly feared that if I visited my grandmother and the rest of that group of relatives alone, that they would attempt to institutionalize me as insane myself, possibly without my parents permission, and in spite of the fact that I am over 18. (You narrowly escaped being in a nunnery, CT, you know relatives can be capable of this kind of thing.)
Part of the reason why I have saved those letters, is against that worst case scenario. It is probably paranoid and delusional on my part (wonder where that comes from in my genetics? ) Now, that I'm no longer a student and financially independent (along with having coworkers that will vouch that I'm sane) I don't think the fear is as valid. And actually, now that I think about it, having those letters in the hands of a 3rd party other than Steve, makes it even safer.
AJ
[ August 19, 2004, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
I think all laughter is either pain avoidance or affirmation of superiority (which is probably just another method of pain avoidance).
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
<--- Is currently affirming his superiorty
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"I think all laughter is either pain avoidance or affirmation of superiority (which is probably just another method of pain avoidance)."
This is why you're not funny. Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
You don't know me in real life, Tom. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If you can't be funny on a forum full of anonymous Internet wits, you can't be funny. Unless, of course, you prefer to feel superior and/or avoid pain in person. *grin*
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
I tend to think that correspondance sent to an individual now belongs to the recipient. The harm potential seems minimal while the humor potential is quite large.
I'm still rooting for the pretend-blog.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Just making it clear, I have no intention of asking Grandma's permission. Particularly since I try to limit my conversations with her to once a year at Christmas.
And, to the amazement of people who have now actually viewed the volume of correspondence I have recieved, I've never written her back either. I think I sent 2 postcards my freshman year of college.
AJ
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
We aren't conciously avoiding emotional pain. The fact is, that like pleasure, there is a very fine line between humor and embarrassment, anger, frustration etc. About the only exception I can think of is the funny things kids say. But again, this is often because it is a painful truth they tell us about ourselves or a way to make us feel grown up and and superior in a benign way.
I didn't claim to be witty. That isn't my talent. I don't collect jokes like my husband does, nor do I tell them very well, as he does.
But I am rather clumsy and often forgetful. Rather than be pained at my ineptness, I laugh and I enjoy the laughter of others. I don't cover up. I'll tell the story about myself, if the subject comes up. This is far more fun than crawling into a hole and and crying about what a jerk I am.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Sooo... would you say that we only feel happiness to avoid feeling pain? Is pain/sadness the only "honest" emotion?
Edit: I guess that means I should copy this one over as well.
[ August 19, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Bob the Lawyer ]
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
To stay on topic, I'll copy my above post to the thread on laughter.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
Fugu
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) Now, that I'm no longer a student and financially independent (along with having coworkers that will vouch that I'm sane) I don't think the fear is as valid. And actually, now that I think about it, having those letters in the hands of a 3rd party other than Steve, makes it even safer.