Who here has read all the books? i'm barely on the fourth, soul harvest. Read the first two in comics then jumped to Nicolae, the third. Too lazy to read the forst ones. Mom's almost done, she''s at Apollion I think...
[ August 15, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Altáriël of Dorthonion ]
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Ok, so has ANYONE here even HEARD about it at all?!
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
I've read the first six I think. I read them back when the sixth one was the most current, and then I never picked up the others when they came out. Pretty interesting stuff. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Hey dawn, well they did get a little more intresting. Lots of people die, Jesus fights, um and dead people come back to life.
Posted by Promethius (Member # 2468) on :
I read a bunch of them, up to the one where those big grasshoppers are biting all the people who havent converted. I thought they were entertaining and a quick easy read. I decided to take a haitus from them for a while because I was apocolypsed out.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
I've never read any of the Left Behind books (I've heard they're not very good), but I've read the Christ Clone Trilogy by James BeauSeigneur, which is a lot of fun and covers some similar ground in a more imaginative way:
I read the first, and was insulted enough not to go back and read anymore.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Bad theology and anti-Catholicism all in the same book. How could I resist?
Dagonee
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
Haven't read the books, and I understand that the movies did not entirely stick to the books, but I caught the second hour or so of the second movie.
>_<
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I've read the whole series. I'm not formally religious and read them strictly as fiction, although I caught a lot of flack from family members about that. And yes, I do own all but Glorious Appearing, and only because that isn't in paperback yet.
Goody
Posted by Shepherdess (Member # 6115) on :
I read the first chapter of the first book, but the writing style (or lack thereof) really turned me off. I found it hard to concentrate on the content because I automatically went into "editor" mode.
Posted by Tzadik (Member # 5825) on :
Read first 3 books, started 4th but simply couldn't finish - mainly theology sucks in those books. Very bad bad theology! Can comment on writing style (am not native speaker). Think not worth time and energy to read all series!
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
Come on, when the secretary general of the UN is the antichrist and his assiatant is the pope, how can you possibly resist.
Posted by Lerris (Member # 3530) on :
On the bad theology front, this is an entertaining read. This fellow is undertaking a page by page review. He is somewhat less than pleased with the viewpoint expressed in these books. As an evangelical protestant, he feels that they are doing a serious disservice to his beliefs. I will say that his is going forward at a glacial pace. He has been at this for about a year now and is only about 50 pages in.
I've read the entire series. I thought they were pretty interesting and entertaining. The quality of writing went downhill fast, but I liked the characters and wanted to see what happened to them.
space opera
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
OOOPS!!!
That post under Mayday's sn above is really me! Sorry, Mayday, I thought I logged you out and me in before I posted.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I must agree that the writings style isn't very appealing, but the actual story is worth reading.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"the actual story is worth reading."
Why? I mean, really, it's not like there's a twist ending, is there?
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Lol at Tom. I knew how it was going to end, but I couldn't stop reading. I had a sick fascination to find out who would die before the end and how. Call me morbid.
space opera
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
I have a question. Why is the series as popular as they are? From what I know, they have horrible writing, not the best story, can be rather offensive, and have what I consider a limited audience.
As to the last point, I thought maybe because there were so many Evangilical Christians who buy the books. If that was the case there would be a lot more Evangilical directed books and series equally as popular. From what I know, this is the only one of that audience specific genre that has been sold to such an extent. Perhaps they happen to have had really good PR that at least piqued poeples interest. Then again, that could have only worked with the first book in the series.
P.S. I don't intend to ever read these things for a number of reasons. For the most part it happens to be that I have no belief in their kind of theology, and know I would be considered one of the conspiring evil forces.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well, poor writing never stopped King from making money...
Most people read at a 9th grade level, so that isn't really a bar to success.
I think a lot of buzz was created by the fact that a lot of Christians bought it first, more than any other series in history. So the mainstream medis mentioned it, and a lot of people got curious.
Once that started, it was a cycle that fed on itself, constantly creating more and more publisity for itself.
Kwea
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Its sci/fi fantasy for nominal Christians. They don't escape into Star Trek or Middle Earth or Harry Potter for fear that might look bad to their other church going friends. So they escape into this fantasy of the big divine, "Nyah, Nyah, I told you so."
I say nominal Christians for if they were truly religious they would know how terrible the theology is that is presented here.
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
quote:I say nominal Christians
I thought that the Rapture, Anti-Christ, general destruction of the wicked, and etc. that these books write about was mainstream to Christianity? Now, I am not saying there couldn't be an illogical and poorly thought out theological explication of these points of doctrine. But, there is nothing "nominal" about the subject matter. Then again, it could be a matter of who has the loudest mouth and not the largest following with this.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
A lot of Christians have a basic understanding of theology. The readers of Left Behind aren't hampered by theology.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Its sci/fi fantasy for nominal Christians. They don't escape into Star Trek or Middle Earth or Harry Potter for fear that might look bad to their other church going friends. So they escape into this fantasy of the big divine, "Nyah, Nyah, I told you so."
Excuse me? What does that make me then?
I'm conservative Christian, and heavily into sci-fi (as is most of my family and several Christian friends).
I read Left Behind and was disappointed. Started on the second book and put it down and didn't try any others. First book was okay, although I feel grossly inaccurate from a theological viewpoint. And the writing was just not good enough to make me go through the rest of the series.
Farmgirl
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
quote: I thought that the Rapture, Anti-Christ, general destruction of the wicked, and etc. that these books write about was mainstream to Christianity?
So did I. I am no theologian. However, whenever I mention things like this to people who are deeply into their church they laugh.
The theology and Christianity portrayed in those books is about as "true" to biblical understanding as the average Star Trek episode is "true" to science.
Sure, it sounds good. They use the correct terms. Its easy to understand. Its just not correct.
I'm sure DKW or some of the other better studied folks can be more exact.
Posted by dangermom (Member # 1676) on :
quote: thought that the Rapture, Anti-Christ, general destruction of the wicked, and etc. that these books write about was mainstream to Christianity?
No, I believe that the Rapture, fears of One-World Government and Anti-Christ etc. are pretty specific to a sub-set of Protestant Christians, mainly the Evanglical/Fundamentalist types--and they argue over whether the Rapture will be pre-Tribulation or post-Tribulation (that is, before or after all the rotten end-of-times stuff happens).
IIRC ideas about the Rapture are based on a specific interpretation of Revelation, Daniel, and other bits of scripture developed in the 19th century. The word Rapture is not in the Bible.
So, your ordinary Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and so on do not believe in the Rapture. Neither, of course, do Catholics or Orthodox. Which leaves a fairly small minority of mainstream Christianity to believe in it--it's just that they're also a vocal minority, and most of them live in the US, so we hear a lot about it.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:Why is the series as popular as they are? From what I know, they have horrible writing, not the best story, can be rather offensive, and have what I consider a limited audience.
Same reason The Work and the Glory was/is so popular. They are the same type of books.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I guess today is my day to link to articles from back issues of Sojourners. *grin*
[ August 18, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by delicate flower (Member # 6260) on :
I don't think it's fair to bash the theology of these books. These aren't just two guys who woke up one morning and decided to write a couple of books about the end of the world. They've done massive amounts of research and written (esp. Tim LaHaye) many non-fiction books on the subject.
I haven't actually read the other books Tim LaHaye has written, but from what I do know about him, I think that if someone were do do there own research, relying heavily on the Bible, and completely disagreed with everything he said, his response would be something like, "Good, at least I got you interested enough to read the Bible." Which is the most important thing. I think that any preacher/theologian of any type should say, "Don't believe me, look it up for yourself."
After saying all that, I would like to clarify that I don't believe in the end of the world scenario presented in these books. I also agree with everything else that’s been said here. Namely, that the books are poorly written, the characters are more flat stereotypes than actually characters, and in general the whole series has been poorly done. At the same time I’ve read all but the last book. There is something unexplainable about these books. As I’m reading them I’m thinking, “this is not a good book,” but I can’t put it down. The same is true for both the Christian and non-Christian friends of mine who have read them. It’s all very odd.
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
quote:Well, poor writing never stopped King from making money...
Blasphemy!
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Actually Tim LaHaye has written some good non-fiction books on Marriage from a Christian perspective that I read long before I read Left Behind. I though his non-fictions books were pretty good.
Farmgirl
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
I feel like playing Devil's advocate here, just because so many people are in agreement about these books. But having finished Glorious Appearing, which seemed more of an excuse to quote Bible verses than an actual piece of literature, I guess I'll have to agree with the majority.
The series isn't all bad, and I can't comment on the theology. But the rest is like a paperback romance novel with Christian themes. Replace the smutty sex with smutty violence, and there's not much difference.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
I actually like King's writing a lot (yes, with some exceptions, of course. Those two big fat books with names like The Regulators or some such thing were not my favorites. And he may have done the haunted car thing two too many times...).
But, yeah, check out slacktivist's writings on Left Behind. Funny and pointed.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Delicate Flower--the more I compare Left Behind with Star Trek, the more I like the analogy. Any scientist who watches or reads Star Trek must disagree with the science. Yet many engineers and science geeks claim that they were brought into the realm of science by Star Trek. The same can be said about Left Behind and Christianity. Its not good religion, but it does bring in the converts.
Of course, converting out of fear (Believe in Jesus or die an agonizing death) is no way to make a good conversion. That is another subject all together.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:The same can be said about Left Behind and Christianity. Its not good religion, but it does bring in the converts.
Does it really? I've never heard this claimed before.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I have read through desecration but have not read any after that. I might pick the further books later...but they are not at the top of my list
Posted by Promethius (Member # 2468) on :
quote: So, your ordinary Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and so on do not believe in the Rapture. Neither, of course, do Catholics or Orthodox
Are you sure about this? The whole idea of Jesus returning and rapturing his church is fairly central to the theme of Christianity(Even if they dont specifically use the word rapture.) The Bible says,
quote: Matt. 24:37-42, "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come"
This is not only found in the Baptists and Evangelicals Bibles but also in the bibles of the lutherans, methodists, catholics, and episcopals. The rapture is not some quacked out idea only beleived by extremists. The Bible speaks of a taking away of some kind, even if it is the wicked who are taken away.
Even without the book of revelations there are so many other references to the second coming and rapture that I do not see how a person who says they are Christian can say the second coming/rapture is something to laugh at.
[ August 19, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Promethius ]
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I learned something new today.
Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
The "second coming" and the rapture are not one and the same in many people's mind, including my own. So scriptural references to the "second coming" do not equate, in my mind, to the belief in the rapture.
As for the scripture you quoted, interpretation is everything, . Since initially that scripture was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and, obviously, there was no "rapture" to save the residents of that city back then, this scripture was not a literal presentation of what the last days of Jerusalem would be like. In that case, those who heeded the warning (when the Roman armies encamped around the city and then left for no reason) fled to the mountains of Perea and escaped the terrible suffering 4 years later. Not everyone listened, and, in many ways, the difference between those who listened and those who didn't were minor- two women at a hand mill, etc.
Moreover, the coming of the Son of Man is equated to the days of Noah. There was no rapture in Noah's day. Again, the people were saved by the faith they demonstrated in getting in the ark and riding out the flood. The analogy made in this scripture makes no sense if the first part is talking about riding out a flood in the ark and the second is talking about a sudden rapture taking all the righteous to heaven.
One also wonders at the justice of the rapture when considering that those who are raptured may be flying a plane or driving a car. (Those bumperstickers annoy me: in case of rapture this vehicle will be unmanned.) How many will die when those pilots disappear in the middle of their flight?
There are other reasons why the rapture (as opposed to the "second coming", which, AFAIK, WAS historically accepted by most churches for many centuries) is not accepted by many outside the American Evangelical movement that these books preach to, and more personally, not accepted by myself.
I read them out of interest to see what their interpretation on Revelation was. And it was interesting to read a line or a section and think "Oh, there getting that from chapter x!"
But I was not impressed by the story line and, to a certain extent, its smugness.
I think the analogy to Start Trek was perfect.
Ian
[ August 24, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: IanO ]
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
I read several of these books....I can't remember how far I got now--perhaps it was Assassins that was the last one I finished, or I may have read the next one. I have some serious disagreements with the theology, but I found it a fun read, for a while.
Then I encountered the previews for the next-to-last book, Armageddon, and it was just too much. The primary justification given for all the destruction, you see, is a final effort to get people to repent--harsh, but not totally unbelievable (to me).
In the preview chapter, one of the believers is sneaking through the AntiChrist's HQ during the plague of darkness scavenging food when she encounters a pitiful woman trying to pray--but because she already has the mark, God will not let her repent. As if it wasn't disgusting enough to read that, I soon found that the characters don't even have to ponder the matter for long--the poor woman is swiftly killed off, presumably to burn.
At that point I decided I could stand to read no farther.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I do agree that the way the authors interprited scripture is rather controvertial; however, we must take in mind that no one really knows how its really going to be, this is just the way that they interprited Apocolypse, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about things aren't they? I do confess that there are times that these characters creep me out, and how most of the people think that even having a belief in a god, no matter which one, or how you worship, will automatically make you a religious fan. I practise my beliefs, but I know for certain that I'm not a fan, I do it by heart.
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