In my other (more serious) thread, TMedina and I started talking about martial arts and how effective they are in self-defense. Unfortunatelly, I do not have the time right now to begin training again (I'm a judo brown belt), but I can, at least, talk about it. So, guys, what kind of martial art classes do you take (or would like to)? how effective do you think they are to prevent a physical assault?
Posted by Mr.Gumby (Member # 6303) on :
I took a couple years of Tae Kwon Do from '01-'03(I'd easily have my black belt if was still taking it). Then this last (spring) semester at the UofU I took Capoeira.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I've taken some jujitsu. I'm pretty adament that if someone decides to hurt me and get the jump on me I will be hurt. If I see them coming my skills in track and cross country will be far more valuable than any martial arts training I have.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I've taken classes in: Tae Kwon Do Judo Coung Nhu karate
I hope to start taking classes in Muay Thai and a grappling style in the near future, although that will depend on what kind of job I land in the near future.
If I do end up as a "detention officer," it'll no longer be a point of academic interest.
-Trevor
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I take a style of Kung Fu that is, essentially, Chinese Streetfighting.
We did a multiple attackers workout (3 on 1) the other day. I did pretty well.
I feel confident of my ability to defend myself against anyone who doesn't have overwhelming physical advantage or a ranged weapon.
I think a few classes isn't going to turn anyone into a fighter, but a few years of *real* study can make you far superior to anyone you are likely to tussle with.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I think very few classes are taught in that fashion - however, if you have the mindset to turn your learning into practical application, it is easier to defend yourself with some training than none at all.
Certain styles are more applicable to self-defense than others, for varying reasons.
-Trevor
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Oh I agree, Trevor.
but the lessons can go the wrong way very early. My style is very combative, and we learn fighting technique pretty much as soon as we learn to break our falls, but it's really easy to take those fighting techniques and say to yourself, "if someone does 'x', I'll do 'y'" when you, in fact, that this point, are probably incapable of it unless you have a very level head and a very slow attacker.
My point is that it's easy to get a few techniques and think you know what to do. I would plan to invest at least a couple of years in training before thinking that I could do, when caught off guard in public by an aggressive attacker, what I learned to do in the kwoon, dojo, or even the cage.
...and there *are* a few people that will try to sell you on the idea that you can buy a couple of videos, practice through them once, and be ready for a fight.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Sadly, yes.
Worse, there are instructors who push that kind of stupidity.
You see that all the time with people and handguns - watching "Rambo" thirty times does _not_ qualify you to operate a weapon.
-Trevor
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
To be honest, I doubt that I have the killer instinct necessary to survive a fight. There's a big difference between sparring, punching a guy in high school, and trying to incapacitate someone who really wants to kill you. Given that a moment of hesitation will probably cost you life or limb I'd rather cut my losses and flee.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Makes sense, Bob.
of course, there's still the pleasure to be derived from learning a complex skill wtith your whole body... so you don't have to give up on the Jiu Jistu
I've never been in a real fight and hope I never am. I wouldn't give up kung fu for the world.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
I'm just waiting for this to degenerate into a mindless "my martial art is better than yours and while we're on the subject, so is my <insert word here that hatrack will collectively kill me for even typing, but you get it>."
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I always viewed martial arts as a dance that people wouldn't beat me up for taking Well, they would, but that was the point. But you see where I'm going. I think I was a lot better at Tai Chi though, I really should go back and take it again. If I can find someone else who does the same form.
Oh, and my Dad can beat up your Dad, PC.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 619) on :
You should look into Aikido, Bob. It's the perfect martial art for those who don't want to fight, since it teaches how to resolve conflict without fighting. (Just usually twisting someone's wrist to the breaking point. )
I've taken a couple of years of it, which means I am fully qualified to get my behind kicked. I've heard someone say that it takes at least 10 years of training before you want to take it to the streets, and they are probably right. In Aikido, timing is everything.
On the other hand, there is no defense against a properly executed Aikido technique, IMO, primarily because it blends perfectly with the attack. After all, how can you defend against your own attack? Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I practiced Karate Do Shotokan for 4 years, and I have (though 'had' is more apropriate) the blue belt. This style's main caracteristics are low, stable positions, and the "one-punch-and-you're-dead" approach. No contact allowed on the hits, no grips allowed during training or competition. To learn not to withhold your punch you practice with boards with one of the faces covered in something less hard.
I also took Judo lessons when I was very-very young, and again at the University. Good to learn to fall among other things, but I guess you already know that.
And during my Karate years, our Sensei gave us some lessons in other styles. I don't remember the names right now, but there was one based on 'helping' the oponent's hit go farther than expected and countering while he's still on the move. Pretty nasty style... And another one used mainly for really close combat, with high positions and short hand, elbow or knee strikes. We also did something like Aikido, but I'm not sure if it was really Aikido or not.
My point is: there's no such thing as a better / worse martial art, if practiced properly and for a long enough period of time. You form reflexes, of one type or another. You won't dodge bullets afterwards, sad, but true... But you'll be more confident, more alert, and, if the need is, more capable of inflicting damage AND controling the damage you do.
Also, about the taking it to the streets part: I don't know about other martial art schools, but in Karate Do Shotokan there's a clause that you SHOULD NOT use it to attack someone. If you do, you're banned from any Karate Do Shotokan federation. I'm pretty sure that similar rules exist in all schools.
Short story: a couple of nights ago, while returning from a friend of mine, in the same campus but another residence, I saw three guys trying to go after a girl. She ran away from them, and all four stopped. She talked on the phone with someone and didn't seem very allarmed. But I slowed my pace and glanced from time to time to see if nothing happened. The guys eventually gave up. But I would have been ready to go there and help her. I'm thankful though that I didn't have to. Should I have had to do it, I would have started by talking to them, and trying to keep her back. Only had I been attacked I would have responded. Surprise might help you win a battle, but sometimes moderation is more appropriate.
Until now, I've never been in the position to have to use what I've learned in order to protect myself, or anyone else. I hope it stays that way.
And Eduardo, I have a question: why don't you go on with Judo ? I'm sure that having the brown belt is no fluke, so why not go on ? I'm still sad that I coulnd't continue Karate here, but it costs too much compared to Romania, and as I found out from other Romanians, the quality in France is not quite the same. Their Karate Do Shotokan has been transformed into a 'sport', less strict, more competition-oriented. In the meantime, I should get on with basic training on my own... Why don't I do it ?! Hmmm, I'll have to think about that...
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
If you execute any attack properly, there is no defense against it. Kinda like the '92 Cowboys.
One of the first rules of combat: the guy who makes the fewest gross mistakes wins.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Corwin, you wrote all that while I was writing my two little lines?
Our art has quite a few pre-emptive strikes in it, so we couldn't really bar anyone for using it offensively. It's a very offensive mindset. I wouldn't go out head hunting, but if a group of guys starts casing me I'm not going to wait till one of then gets behind me or pulls out a knife...
Still, there is a lot more you can do to defend yourself besides just taking the guy out.
[ July 26, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Well, on the streets you won't see many 'properly executed' attacks... But it's true that a surprise attack of some kind can finish even the most prepared. But that's not a reason NOT to practice martial arts. It only means that some situations are unavoidable, but proper training can raise the bar for such situations.
And to add something that hasn't been said until now. My sensei taught us that a martial art is not only a sport. It's much more than that, it's a life style. It includes rules of conduct, means to better yourself physicaly AND mentally (or spiritualy, however you want to call it). For that probably more than anything I'm sad to have stopped it... and more and more eager to restart !
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I just started kung fu. I am not good at it so far, and I do not have the money to pay for it, but I want to do kung fu forever.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
I have been taking Honto Ryu for almost a year and I am a purple belt. I am working on my stamina and physical fitness so I can do it better.
I don't think I can kick someone's butt, but my reflexes are much quicker. I know I will continue for at least another year. I do want a black belt. Only 3 belts before then. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Jim-me, not quite, I spent some time to write it. English can be pretty hard sometimes (notice that the part about the 'boards' used in training is a little awkwardly written, I didn't find better words)
As for the point of taking a guy out: if there are more of them, that seems to be the most reasonable course of action from your part. Of course, you don't kill him, there are spots that if hit will make him take an early sleep, but you don't THINK about that in the process. That's why it's so important to form good reflexes, in order to be able to find the best strike that doesn't cause permanent damage but puts the guy out of action.
Syn: I think I was no good at Karate even after a year or more. The first thing you have to learn while practicing a martial art is to have patience. Results don't show after a day, a week, a month or even a year. But when they show, you know it's worth it. It's a matter of trusting your trainer, understanding that he knows what he's doing and that he's able to get you where you want to go, and even further, in places you had no idea about.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
It's funny-- so many different styles and the belt rankings are all different. Corwin has a blue belt, I had one in Tae Kwon Do and it was a really low- belt, but in my art, blue means Grand Master. I'm pretty sure that in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu that a purple belt is a senior instructor...
Corwin, agreed that you won't find a lot of properly executed attacks on the street , hence "the guy who makes the fewest gross mistakes wins". I wish I could remember who said that... I think it's on the Wall at Mirimar NAS (Navy Fighter Weapons School)
Syn, yeah, kung fu is cool, isn't it?
anyone read A Book of Five Rings or The Art of War? I've read boht and have to confess that everything in both of them was either obivous or completely unintelligible to me.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I have been watching all the Karate Kid movies at least 42 times. When I reach 50, I think I'll be a master. To prove it I will go outside and catch an arrow a friend is shooting at me.
Yeah, right.
Actually, with a few lessons I did succeed in winning an impromptu street fight.
I was 9.
My older brother, 11, had a friend who was a jerk.
He once dumped me in a puddle of water that required a complete change of clothes when we got to school.
But that was back when I was in Kindergarten.
However, there were a few bullies in my own class, so my parents decided that little me needed some Karate to be able to defend myself.
I carry a White Belt in Karate.
I believe they award that when your first check clears or some other major milestone like that.
I had learned to punch and to kick. I hadn't mastered these techniques, but I had learned them.
When Jay, my brothers friend, heard about my education in the martial arts, he demanded a demonstration.
The first thing we learned was that violence solved nothing. So I told him NO.
Besides, I had taken 3 lessons. If I tried to hit or kick Jay, he'd kill me.
I was not a stupid kid, despite the rumors to the contrary.
Jay continued to pick on me, demanding that I should demonstrate my martial prowess.
What could I do?
I decided to demonstrate the simple kick.
He dared me to, standing their like superman, or peter pan, hands on his hips, legs over shoulder's width apart.
I judged distance, closed my eyes (not part of the training) and kicked.
I contacted. I could tell something stopped my foot. I was relieved I hadn't made a fool of myself by missing him completely.
He was in the middle of taunting me when I kicked. He had stopped his taunting.
I opened my eyes.
Jay was laying in a fetal postion, rolling on the ground, crying. His hands were clasped securely between his legs, where my kick had landed.
Jay never bothered me again.
Karate rocks!
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Corwin,
Seconds on the recommendation for patience.
I have to confess I'm not nearly as careful or controlled as you are describing.
If it comes to a fight, when I say take a guy out, I mean take him out-- tear ligaments, break bones, whatever it takes to make sure he is not getting back up to attack me again.
When I was talking about other methods of dealing with hostiles I was thinking more along the lines of BtL, above-- run... or at least put yourself out of harms way. If you see a guy or group that seems to be casing you, do something. Almost anything that lets them know you see them for what they are is effective... even just making eye contact. For sure, if you can, cross the street or otherwise put obstacles between them and you. Much better than trying to take on a thug.
The guy that founded our art had a saying: "best way not get hit? don't be there!"
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Dan, as mean as it may be of me to say this, that was really funny!
*I am NOT a Sadist*I am NOT a Sadist*I am NOT a Sadist*I am NOT a Sadist*
<guy rolling on the floor in agony>
okay, maybe I am...
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Dan, you needed Karate to learn you to kick him between the legs ?!? Oh boy... And after 3 lessons, you were right about not wanting to make a demonstration... Well, he asked for it...
About the belt rankings: I don't remember those in Judo, but in Karate Do Shotokan they go like this:
White belt - you get it with your kimono White belt with one red stripe (already makes you feel better, huh ?!) - 8Q White belt + 2 red stripes - 7Q White belt + 3 red stripes - 6Q
(enough of this)
Yellow belt - 5Q Orange belt - 4Q. First time you have free fights included in your belt exam. Green belt - 3Q Blue belt - 2Q Brown belt - 1Q
Black belts: 1-9 Dan. (1 - lowest, 9 - highest) They came up with a junior black belt, so you could have it before 18 IIRC, but you still have to pass the exam for the 'real' black belt afterward. The 9 Dan, well, you can forget about it. Our Sensei currently has 3 or 4 Dan, not sure which. The president of the Romanian Karate Do Federation has 6 Dan, and I'm not sure that in Romania there's someone with a higher belt. The higher belts are awarded, besides the obvious technical skills, for training capabilities and for special reasons I don't remember now.
And to give you an idea about the procedure: the exams are spaced at fix intervals of time. Your yellow belt comes, I think, after a year of training - if you have all the exams the first time. You have to wait half an year for the orange, one year for green, blue, brown. For the black belt you are examined by a team of Sensei, not by yours alone. And I think there's a minimum required age for the higher black belts.
The system is designed to mark your accomplishments. A belt doens't mean you're suddenly better, it means you are constantly at that level and gives you a palpable proof of your advance.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Jim-me, you're absolutely right: the best way of avoiding ugly consequences is not to start the fight in the first place. I might start considering sprint lessons...
Short derailment about sprint: A few years ago, while Maurice Green was doing an interview, a guy grabbed a woman's purse. M. Green told the reporter to excuse him, and ran after the guy, and, of course, caught him and took back the purse. Man, that was one poor choice of stealing ground... First rule of stealing: don't do it near the fastest man on the planet. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I have ALWAYS wanted to take a martial art.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
What stops you ?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Corwin... nice story about Green...
the belt thing fascinates me. what do the "Q"s stand for?
Ours is pretty simple:
White Yellow (about 3-4 months in) Green (Typically 6 months past yellow) 2nd degree Green (6 more months) Brown (6 Months past 2nd green) 2nd degree Brown (6 months past brown) Black 1st-7th degree black (one year each degree) Red for Master. If you train two succeeding generations to black belt (physical generations: i.e. your own kid and grand kid)then you may take the honorific of "Grand Master".
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I studied Aikido for about 7 years, and only dropped it a few months ago. I really enjoyed it.
I would say that the biggest thing that limited me having effective "on the streets" aikido was my attitude. I just am not a warrior, and I didn't really believe that I would ever be called on to use my aikido in a life-or-death situation. As a consequence, I didn't train as though my life depended on it.
One of the things I liked about Aikido was the subduing nature of it. Many martial arts, including most punch/kick arts and many styles of jujitsu seem to use the strategy "damage your opponent so much that they are no longer a threat". Aikdo's strategy is more in subduing your opponent without letting yourself or your come to harm. Many of the aikido techniques protect you from an attack, and allow you to throw or pin (or both!) your opponent without undue harm coming to him.
There are a few reasons why I prefer this. One is that it allows me to use Aikido in situations where my life isn't in jeopardy. If my brother-in-law is just being obnoxious, I don't have to break his nose to get him to stop.
Another reason is that, in my way of thinking, it is a much more Christ-like or Christian attutude to take, and that's important to tme.
A third reason is that you are much less likely to get sued if you stop a fight by pinning somebody to the ground than if you break his arm.
Man, I miss Aikido.... Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Not knowing what to take in my area.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
that's the thing about Martial Arts. A good teacher can be very hard to find.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If you are really interested, go to every single dojo (or dojang, or studio, or whatever) you can find. Talk to them. Watch a class. Watch two. It is said that it's better to spend ten years looking for a good teacher than ten years studying under a bad teacher. I'm not sure how much I agree with that, but there is certainly some truth to it.
Some places will let you come and train with them for a class or two to try them out. Some won't, especially in some of the more traditional arts. If they allow it, then by all means try it out. But if they don't, don't be put off.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I may do that.
Style is another thing though...I'm not sure which to study.
Remember, I also fence.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Finding a good teacher at a place with a good spirit is probably more important than what style you choose. If the training is not enjoyable, you just won't keep it up, and then it doesn't matter how awesome their style is -- it's not doing you much good.
That being said, my biased suggestion is go and see if there is any aikido in your area. Aikido focuses much more on correct technique and correct timing as opposed to strength and speed. Somebody big and strong often is at a disadvantage learning aikido -- they are so strong/big that they can "force" the technique to work, even when they aren't doing it right. When you are smaller and weaker, you really have to learn to do it correctly.
At least, that's the way it is with all the aikido I've studied. There's some pretty weird stuff that they call Aikido, so YMMV. For example, there is an off-shoot called "Ki Society Aikido", and it seems that to aikido is mostly just a vehicle to learn to increase their ki (or chi), and not so much a martial art at all. Some people really like it, but it's certainly not my cup of tea.
This is why it's important that you ask question after question after question.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I am interested in Tai Chi solely for health benefits. I took it at the university way back when. I'd like to take private classes , probably with Master Liu who is also an accupuncturist.
But I see the health benefits as including balance, strength, and awareness.
I was reading a book once about the history of Osteopathy and Chiropractic, and it seemed obvious to me that Tai chi has to be the ultimate (well, at least the oldest) positional modality. Based on the theory that when the body is allowed to move naturally, it can heal itself.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Okay...so where can I find a listing of places?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
hmm. I've found this place. Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Pooka, if you are looking to do Tai Chi, a traditional (non-combative) kung fu style would likely be quite similar. Even ours is similar to Tai Chi in many movements and applications, though radically different in both philosophy and training. One of my regular workout partners is a Chiropractic Doctor and there is some definite resonance between the two.
Mack, what exactly are you looking for? Excercise? something to use in your fencing? something to compliment it? something to oppose it?
Or do you just want to learn to beat people up?
<meditates on the path of Tae Kwon Leap> ohm...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Your yellow pages should have several listings, as well as googling.
And don't be afraid to ask people at the dojos. Tell them "I am wanting to investigate all of the studios in the area. *This* is a list of the ones I know about. Do you know of any others?" If they don't want to help you out then that might tell you about what kind of place they are (a place that cares more about your tuition fee than you).
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Maybe I just want to learn to beat people up. But not really THAT. I've just always liked and admired them and love using my entire body and pushing it to the limit.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
mack, that seems like a good site, has plenty of information about the school. But as mph said, you have to take time to see a few lessons there. And I'm also sure that most martial art schools in your city (whichever that is ) put posters all over the place. Well, probably not now, but look for them in september when they will start another training cycle. Actually, I don't know if all of them use cycles, but it seems logical to want to have more students at the same level, that can advance together...
And what mph said is very, very true: a good teacher is very important ! You need someone to keep you motivated through the first months when it may seem that you learn near to nothing.
Another thing: how many days per week do you practice fencing ? I know that when I played basketball I went three times per week, and same goes for Karate. (I stopped basketball before) I think taking up two things at the same time might be too much. Your call, though. It also depends on whether you can / want to go on weekends or you have to take all the classes during the work week.
Jim-me: I have no idea about the Q thing. I'll look it up one day and post it if I find out.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I fence twice a week for an hour and a half Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
And how do you feel the days after fencing ? If you throw a martial art in between, it might just mess up the whole rutine... And going at all the classes in a martial art is a must at least when starting to practice one. So think well before investing in this.
Edit: by 'starting' I mean the first few months, actually.
[ July 26, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Corwin ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The day after fencing? I normally feel fine. I have a pretty good level of fitness, as I also hike, bike, run and weight train.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Mack,
Brazillian Jiu Jitsu is optimized for cage fighting and will definitely develop the physical side, if that's the limit you are wanting to push...
Believe it or not, just plain ol' Boxing can be quite effective, and quite a workout.
Judo and Aikido are very effective for smaller people because they focus more on using your opponent's energy.
Of course, I'm totally in love with the art I study, Kung Fu San Soo, but to my knowledge, the only person teaching it out East (you're in Ma., right?) is a self-trained guy at Brandeis University who has been taking it less time than I have and mixing other arts in with it as well. Not my first choice for a recommendation.
But that brings up a different subject.... cross-training anyone?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'm in New Hampshire, actually. I'm also just five four without shoes.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
mack, do you know what the fencing situation is in Utah county?
edit due to simultanous posts: I'm more of a purist. I don't go in for the hybrid sport arts.
[ July 26, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'm not moving to utah Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Oh. :goes off to see:
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I've done cross-training. It's a good thing.
Mack -- let me elaborate about why I talk about how you need a good teacher. I decided to cross-train (train in 2 different arts at the same time) for a while. I found a dojo that did stuff that I really like and that I thought would compliment my aikido. I was correct -- the art was exactly what I was looking for.
But I couldn't stand the way the instructors treated their students. They seemd to thing that degrading somebody is the best way to motivate them. Everything seemed structured to keep people in their place. There seemed to be a big lack of respect from the top going down.
As a result, I just couldn't train there very long. I didn't like being there because of the spirit of the place, and I couldn't quite put my trust in my instructors or my dojo mates.
As a result, I decided to quit. I just wasn't willing to put up with it.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I don't see anything on a casual glance around. That's too bad. Are you going to get your deposit back?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
pooka -- BYU used to have a pretty good fencing program, but that got axed about 10 years ago, IIRC. The program moved off-campus, and is located a little north of 800 south on State Stree, Orem. It's in the same parking lot as Mad Dog Cycles. From what I understand, they are a very good school. Our dojo used to sub-rent some of their space from them until they grew so much that the kicked us out.
[ July 26, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Mac - find a list of schools or instructors and what they teach.
We have enough experts to give you marginally informed opinions on the styles so you can make an educated selection.
Almost any martial art is going to push your limits - grappling styles like Judo and Jujitsu are going to be physically more demanding because of the hands-on nature and the full body action of throwing and wrestling.
Boxing and Thai boxing are striking styles and both are good physical fitness - Thai boxing offers and actually focuses on knees and shin kicks which capitalize on hips and legs.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Fencing gives me a ton of power and strength in my legs--so maybe something that utilizes the upper body a bit more if possible.
Hmmm.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Heh - you'd enjoy Thai boxing for the @$$ kicking aspects. Since you have a lot of power already, it would just require developing the new skills.
As for upper body, traditional boxing is good - as is any grappling style.
Is there a college nearby? Typically they have clubs that are open to non-students if you want to get a sample of something.
-Trevor
Posted by Lime (Member # 1707) on :
I took jujitsu for 2-3 years from ages 13-15. I only remember the arm locks. I took a summer of fencing junior year of college and that was a *blast* - I just wish I could find time in my week to actually do some more.
Also, if I could find an Aikido place in Rockford, I'd be there with metaphorical bells on. Aikido kicks lots of butt, and I'm a smaller person, to boot.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Jaime,
could you recommend a place to research that? it sounds pretty cool and I'd like to see it...
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
If I weren't going to do Tai Chi, I think I would do the Klingon rip-off of Tai Chi that they did on STNG. That, or Shao-Lin parallel parking.
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Hey, y'all. Just found this forum, interesting thread.
Just got back from karate class. it was fun. I've been taking katate for about 4 1/2 or 5 years now at 3 different schools. I trained at Sensi Iha's dojo in Lansing , MI for 1 1/2 yrears before I moved to Canton, OH 5 years ago. I really liked it, but he focused mainly on kata and no sparring at all.
After I moved here I worked out at Canton Center for the Martial Arts, which was an interesting experience. Completly different from the place in Lansing. They do lots of kobodo, which is weapons training. I learned to fight with sticks of different sizes.
Monday night was sparring class. I learned quickly that kata alone doesn't teach you how to fight, no matter what Sensi Iha said. (No disrespect intended. Just the facts, sir.)
After a couple years there I laid off for a year or so, and when I got the itch to try it again I started at East Coast Karate here in town. Great bunch of guys, I really enjoy it. I like the organized ciriculum. (sp?)
I started there as a brown belt a year ago, they let me keep the rank I had earned. I like it that they teach you step by step what you need to know to earn the next promotion. Kata, one steps, self defense and sparring. It's a good workout and a good way to learn.
They also offer kickboxing and grappling classes. Grappling really kicks ass. It's a hard workout. On Wed. nights I do an hour of Karate and and hour of grappling. I'm beat when it's over.
Mack, if you want an art that focuses mainly on upper body movements karate is worth looking into. It's 70% punches and 30% kicking. Tae Kwon Do is the opposite, 70% feet. Your fencing skills will help you with moving in and out to attack or defend.
IMHO a good karate guy can kick a TKD guy's ass. Maybe I'm predjudiced. Muai Thai kickboxers can probably whip both of them with no problem. Ever watch K-1 on PPV or ESPN? That's what I'm talkin' about.
Re: the post about ranks and what does the Q mean? It's actually spelled kyu in Japanese, and it's used to designate the ranks from white belt up until you get to blak. When you reach black they're called dans.
In Okinawan karate shodan is first dan, or first degree black belt. Nidan is second degree and so forth. White belt is 13th kyu. It goes up through brown tip, which is first kyu, the last colored belt level before promoting to shodan.
Different styles have different ranking systems.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Hey, it was nice to create this thread. I'm learning a lot! :-) Does anyone over here likes to watch MMA (mixed martial arts) tournments, such as UFC? What do you think of them?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The only Israelie martial art that I'm aware of is Krav Maga - which is not to say I claim to be an expert.
As to UFC and similar mixed martial arts tournaments. Eh.
Yes, it's dramatic and messy and you get to see applications of techniques up close and personal, but too many people equate it to "real" fighting.
It's not.
-Trevor
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
Ya Krav Maga is another one, I don't know too much about it because I don't take it, I take Haganah because the national training center is 2 minutes away from me. I can't say which is better but I'll tell you Haganah is awesome
Posted by Speed (Member # 5162) on :
Pooka:
quote: I am interested in Tai Chi solely for health benefits. I took it at the university way back when. I'd like to take private classes , probably with Master Liu who is also an accupuncturist.
I studied with Master Lu for about 3 years. In fact, I wrote a post about him here a little while ago. He's the best. Seriously, you can't go wrong with him. First, he was the prize pupil of a Shaolin monk and won two national kung fu championchips before he came to America. Second, he's a heck of a nice guy. His whole family is great. His son is also a kung fu master (and possibly the most amazing athlete I've ever seen in person), but he is leaving to go to school in Texas. Master Lu's wife is a physical therapist, and is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.
Another good thing about studying with him is that he runs his acupuncture practice out of the same building as the studio, which means that it's open all the time. Most places you can only go in during class time, a couple times a week. With Master Lu there are several classes a day, and you can come in outside of class and practice by yourself or with whomever is in the studio at the time, as often as you want, usually from about 6 in the morning to 8 or 9 at night. Much better value.
In case you don't know, the studio is on 3300 S. State Street, across from the movie theatres. If you go there, tell them that you know Mike the pharmacist, and that I said hi.
Anyway, on to the subject of the thread. When I was a kid I took some generic karate for a couple years. In college I took a year of Kenpo Karate. After my mission, when I moved to Salt Lake, I took the aforementioned kung fu/ tai chi for about 3 years. I'm currently trying my hand at Thai boxing, just for a different experience. If I stay in Salt Lake, though, I fully plan on returning to Master Lu's kung fu.
I've never been the top of my class at any martial art. In fact, I've always been fairly slow, clumsy and non-athletic. For someone who is 6'4" and naturally pretty strong, I make an ass of myself in any practice that requires coordination. It's genetic, too. As sad as I am, I'm the most athletic person, by far, of any member of my immediate or extended family on either parent's side. But I've decided that I'd rather round myself off by doing something I'm not naturally good at than sit around my whole life engaged in pursuits that I'm talented at without much effort. I try to judge myself by where I'd be if I never tried the sport rather than by where the rest of my class is.
And the cool thing about martial arts is that most people involved in it are remarkably understanding. Sure, there's the odd smeghead. But most people that I train with in any style treat me like an equal even though I'm clearly inferior. It's really nice.
[ July 27, 2004, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: Speed ]
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Re: TMedina's comment about MMA...Mixed Martial Arts was developed to be as close as possible to real fighting without killing each other. They don't allow certain things like knees to the face and groin strikes, but it's still pretty realistic, considering.
Tai Chi looks like fun. It's very graceful and fluid. I'd love to learn the forms some day, but right now I'm busy working on the stuff I need for my next belt. I'm on the verge of getting my black belt. I thought I was ready in June, but the sensi told me I wasn't.
That's OK. I'll keep practicing and going to class. With some more work and a little patience maybe I'll get there by fall. Whitehorse.
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Shameless plug:
Check out the story I'm writing.
It's in the Hatrack River 1830's forum, Riverfront, titled Sometimes You Get Lucky.
Any comments or criticisims would be welcome. Well, OK, tolerated. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Thanks, Speed!
Whitehorse- the separate thread of promoting is okay, but unless it involves martial arts it's a bit out of place here. Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Whitehorse - that's my point.
If a grappler dives at my legs, my knee is going to connect with his face and possibly break his neck.
Which undercuts the argument "grapplers are best" because they can and often do dominate in the ring.
Which is fine, but don't mistake controlled circumstances for a life-and-death scenario.
-Trevor
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Pooka, I realied that after the fact, so I created a new topic. Humble apologies...
Whitehorse
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Haganah looks to be philosophically much like my art, though what I study is less hybridized.
I'm not real fond of cage matches or cross-training myself. Both are good in theory but I don't have the time to devote to either one. More power to those who do.
A note about different styles-- you know, it doesn't come down to style versus style, but person versus person. a good Tae Kwon Do person will mop the floor with a bad Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Muy Thai person. It comes down to learning to fight *your* fight and then executing it. Fight the style that *you* feel makes you the best fighter.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Re: Trevor's point:
another thing is that the whole fight in a tournament match is contrived. You have no other options and no choice of when and where to fight. In the real world, those choices are of enormous consequence. It doesn't mean that training for tournaments is useless by any means, but "the closest you can get" is still, in fact, a long way off.
[ July 27, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
I agree with you, Jim-Me. The skill of a fighter will mean more than the style. Attitude and training means a lot. And in the maelstrom of a fight your carefuly practiced techniques can quickly go right out the window.
That's why I like to cross train. A little kick boxing and grappling knowledge seems to complement my previous training. If a fight does go to the ground it seems to me that it would be helpful to know what to do.
Not that I get into fights, becasue I don't. In fact, my wife used to ask me why I train. I explained that it's because if the situation ever comes up there are two possible results. You win or you lose. I want to be the winner.
Posted by J. Alfred Prufrock (Member # 6732) on :
Have any of you trained with weapons? I've found that I simply can't practice a martial art if it isn't a weapon-based discipline, and unfortunately, I've found myself severely limited. There just aren't the right teachers in this area for it.
Martial arts doesn't hold my interest until there's a staff in my hand, but when there is, it's a small nirvana. It's an extension of myself, and to me, there's nothing more peaceful about me, an empty room, and the twirl of a lengthened stick.
You seeming veterans: Do you have any suggestions? I can't seem to find instructors in the area, but then, I could be searching for the wrong thing. Are there any disciplines that are solely based on weaponry, or is it a Calculus-only-after-Trigonometry kind of deal?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Most styles I am aware of, or at least commonly found in the US focus on weapon training after sufficient skill has been developed in unarmed forms.
However, some styles focus on weapon forms early - Philipino Arnis, for example. I believe some Japanese schools teach the staff exclusively - bojutsu and so forth, but finding a school near you may be complicated.
I remember reading about one school that started with weapon forms and then moved to unarmed, but it was not a widely accepted philosophy, hence the article.
You may want to approach some instructors and see if they know or could recommend a school or even another instructor more geared to your interests. Try local college (if you have one) and talk to some of the instructors who offer courses - they are more likely to be aware of the subculture and will likely be happy to provide any information they have.
I don't know how many martial arts schools can be found in your area - Atlanta seems to have a profound lack, although that may be changing.
-Trevor
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Well, a plug for Budo Taijutsu.
It's a lot of fun....for Jesse. I always end up being the throwing dummy. It's mainly defensive manuevers with weapons training. It's probably more about having fun than being accurate. We wear black gis and tabi and practice at night in between the trees in the park, and spend the first half of practice exercising, stretching, and throwing each other so that we can practice hitting the ground with a roll, and being uke in general. It seems silly, like it's all about the atmosphere, but the guys really like it. I saw a kid from the advanced class that was about ten years old wielding a bokken and fighting our instructor...he was really good. At any rate, I know we are really learning, so if we want to be ninjas in the dark, more power to us!
Regarding Q:
quote: the belt thing fascinates me. what do the "Q"s stand for?
I'm almost certain this is actually "kyu" and it means grade (like rank).
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Love the handle. Great Poem.
I take staff and Darndao (chinese broadsword, curved, single edge, mid-length blade) and love them both, though my primary training continues to be open hand... largely because carrying a staff or sword will get you arrested in Texas.
Where is your area?
Posted by J. Alfred Prufrock (Member # 6732) on :
Thank you! Sad poem, but yes, great poem.
In about a month, I'm moving up to Waterville, Maine for college. Admittedly, I haven't done extensive research on martial arts there (although I haven't yet found a class at the college, and don't expect there to be one. It's a tiny business school), but if you've got a handy quicklist or something, it'd help. I can't say I'm expecting much; Waterville isn't the most populated of places, heh.
Here (not sure about ME) you have to get a permit before you can carry a blade. After that, anything goes. Not sure if you need one for a staff, although I can't see myself carrying one around just to have it handy.
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
Thank you for the corrections everyone. Q = kyu, of course... Need to go now, but I see this thread has become more and more interesting, I'll check it out later.
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Re: J. A. P.'s question about weapons, Kali is another Fillipino MA style that involves lots of weapons work. Mostly sticks and knives, I believe. There's a studio here in town that offers that along with JKD and something called Silat. I've never heard of the latter, but he says it's from Maylasia.
[ July 28, 2004, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: J. Alfred Prufrock ]
Posted by Whitehorse (Member # 6718) on :
Here's an interesting alternative to carrying a staff... Canemasters.com
[ July 30, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Whitehorse ]
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
You might look into Escrima, which is an awesome stickfighting art from the Phillipines.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I have really enjoyed the weapons training I've done, but it's probably some of the least practical training I've ever done. Not impractical because it doesn't work, but because I don't carry a staff or any other weapon with me.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As for the Malayasian Pentjak Silat, it's supposed to be a very dangerous knife/weapon form(s). I haven't been overly impressed with the information I've seen as it involves a lot of leg work.
If you learn the short stick forms, you can use improvised clubs to dangerous effect.
However, you have to be careful - a young, healthy person carrying a cane will arouse suspicion. An ASP baton is a nice toy, but it is classified as a weapon and the police won't be amused if you get stopped.
You could, however, carry a set of drumsticks - those things make for nasty poking weapons.
-Trevor
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
I'm thinking about taking Kenjutsu lessons (fighting with japanese swords). Does anyone around here ever trained something similar?
Oh, someone asked a few days ago why don't I go back to judo and get my black belt (since I already have a brown belt). The thing is: I don't know...since I once was a very competitive judo athlete, the thought of training it just for "fun" saddens me a bit. I keep thinking how far I could have gone if I did not stop training due to university/career pursuits (I was my State two times champion, and 4th place once at the brazilian judo championship).
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Oh, yes...about staffs:
There is jojutsu: japanese technique with the staff. I watched a demonstration once. Nice stuff.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
There are two major schools of thought:
Kendo - which is practice fighting
Kenjutsu - actual fighting
I understand that Iado (quickdraw) often has a school unto itself.
What kind of feedback were you looking for?
-Trevor
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Trevor: Over here there a few kendo schools, but only a couple kenjutsu ones. I was told that kendo is more a "sport" martial arts, and kenjutsu is more like "real fighting". What do you know about practical differences between them?
The Kenjutsu school I checked out also has Iaijutsu courses.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
And the hanbo - which is roughly three feet long or so. Exact dimensions and names will vary depending on the school and tradition you choose to follow.
-Trevor
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
That's the fundamental difference Ed.
Kendo is like Judo - meaning no offense, but Judo was designed as a sport form. Not as a means of quickly killing and/or incapacitating a foe.
Kenjutsu would be more like Karate - less emphasis on the sporting aspects and more attention paid to quickly dispatching your opponent.
I would highly recommend taking Kenjutsu classes if you can manage it - you won't often find yourself in a position to use a katana, but the techniques are often transferrable to clubs and tends to be infinitely more practical than Kendo.
Iaijutsu (pardon my misspelling) is all about quickly drawing the sword and striking. Not unlike the American "quickdraw". Most schools teach it - I've seen some schools focus on it entirely.
-Trevor
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I wonder why Japanese staves are even length and Chinese (5', 7', 9') are odd?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I honestly couldn't tell you - cultural differences, perhaps?
-Trevor
Edit: Although the 9' staff is moving beyond quarterstaff technique and more into spear/polearm use.
If you keep the 5' and 7', they are more or less in line with comparable Japanese weapons - the jo being listed as anywhere between 3 - 5 feet in length.
[ July 30, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Guess you may be right about the Kendo/Kenjutsu, Trevor. I'll see to it. I can train once for free, in one of the schools I sought, so I'll try it this saturday.
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
quote:Martial arts doesn't hold my interest until there's a staff in my hand, but when there is, it's a small nirvana. It's an extension of myself, and to me, there's nothing more peaceful about me, an empty room, and the twirl of a lengthened stick.
And here I was so sure this thread wasn't going to be about onanism.
[ July 30, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: ae ]
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Coming into this conversation a little bit late... But I've been in Tae Kwon Do for almost eight years, and I got my black belt a little less than two years ago. It was really... one of the greatest experiences of my life.
At this point, I know I could be happier with my skill in TKD, I've been out of it a lot due to school, financial difficulties, and injuries... But it's one of those things that makes me happy, even though it's not really like anything else I enjoy doing. IE: It's physical.
I feel like I have to learn doubly well how to defend myself in a possible fight situation because I can't run; due to my asthma I tire out very quickly. Thankfully, though, I never have had to use my skill. There is this feeling I have that I'd someday like to try it out, though.
That said, anyone who knows martial arts coming to Kamacon? I'll bring my sparring gear....
(no, seriously though, anyone want to spar?)
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I'd be happy to if I was going to Kamacon...
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I would, but I'm not going.
And you'd eat me alive.
-Trevor
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Psh, no I wouldn't, I'm a pussycat. Seriously, though, I'm not very good.
I guess there are no takers for a no-holds barred one-on-one fight to the kissyboobooowietime?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
That sounds, um... fascinating, Ryuko...
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
*pops head in thread*
My favorite type of martial arts is the type where you put paint on your hands and feet and do kickboxing. Art, right?
*ducks and runs away*
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
When I was a young lad I took 4 years of Judo. I competed alot and eventually qualified for the Nationals. I never won but I did get to compete on a national level.
I got started for much the same reason as Dan. I was a shrimp and kids in the neighborhood were picking on me.
Once it got around that I was taking judo the number of fights I had during the summer quadrupled. The number of fights I lost shrank to zero.
Taking Judo and attending competitions colored my early childhood and I can still count in Japanese.
I took Karate later when I was in my teens but I never took to it like I did Judo.
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Well, they would, but that was the point. But you see where I'm going. I think I was a lot better at Tai Chi though, I really should go back and take it again. If I can find someone else who does the same form.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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