At the beginning of this year, I tried out for a band (it was unnamed at that point, and their old drummer had moved out of town) where all the guys in it were juniors at a college (American University) right by my house. They told me I had the spot as drummer, but the lead guitarist never called me back, and I finally found out by talking to the second guitarist that their old drummer had moved back into town and that they were taking him back into the band. I had enjoyed their music (even though the recordings they had at that point were comprised of only two guitars), so needless to say I was pissed.
Tonight I was looking at the website of a venue my band will be playing at (for the second time) and clicked on a random band's website to see if I could get any ideas to incorporate into my website. I was surprised to see that it was said band from above. But the funny part is that I downloaded one of their songs to see what they sounded like, and while the guitars in the song still sounded good, I found that my own drumming is much better, their recording quality sucked, and they didn't even have any lyrics in their recording yet.
Also, looking back at the venue's website, their band is playing first on a list of 4 bands. My band has the same status. I imagine though that by the time my band, whether its the one im currently in or one i start at Oberlin, is made of Juniors in College, we'll be either at the top of the list, or opening for well-known bands.
Irony is delicious. Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
You sound bitter.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
I defy anyone to find any irony in that story.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
to me it sounds like after getting rejected by unnamed band, CM went on to bigger and better things, while unnamed band isn't doing so well ...
kind of like getting dumped by a gf or bf and doing better in life ... that kind of irony
Posted by CalvinMaker (Member # 2032) on :
quote: kind of like getting dumped by a gf or bf and doing better in life ... that kind of irony
exactly
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
Actually, that's not irony. That's bitter schadenfreude after being rejected. Anyone who does that with an ex-bf or ex-gf is being equally bitter. Still not irony.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Irony would be a copy of the "Awake" magazine featuring an article called "Sleep debt: are you a victim?"
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
It's like ray-e-ain on your wedding day!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
It's like you folks didn't see "Reality Bites" or something.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
<--- didn't see "Reality Bites"
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
The ironic part is that they snubbed CM to pick up someone who isn't as good, and their music is suffering because of it while he prospers.
If I say it, it is irony, because I don't have bad feelings toward others.
The irony is the situation where they screwed themselves by screwing him, while his feelings about the other band is schadenfreude.
[ July 24, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
"schadenfreude" has to be the coolest-sounding literary term in the world.
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
I don't think they screwed him. Having heard neither drummer play, this sounds like they chose someone they knew over someone they didn't who was younger than them to begin with. No offense to CM or anything, but I think he's attributing motive and being bitter about it.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: No offense to CM or anything
You seem to use this phrase quite a bit, love. Maybe rethink that.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Toby Keith, "How do you like me now?"
-Trevor
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Bear with me for a sec.....
If you were told that you were the new drummer of a band, and then they never called you...
And when you heard them play, they weren't very good, and the drummer that they picked was messing up...
And it was the same drummer that you were suppose to replace...
How is it not ironic?
I haven't heard either of them play, but I am willing to give CM the benefit of the doubt.
I was first chair in 10th grade, but the teacher kicked me out of my seat for something stupid..and I lost my solos. I challenged when the girl got back from vacation and won, but my teacher let her have one of the solos anyway.
So when we played, I hit every note as good as I had ever played it....and when it got to the one simple solo she had she screwed it up bad.
Listening to the tape the next day in school my teacher heaped a ton of praise on me at each solo...and then, forgetting that she had given the bad one to Dawn, she stopped the tape after the bad solo and asked me what went wrong with that part.
I looked her in the face and said "You gave it to her, that is what happened.". I felt bad, but pleased that I had played better than she had.
So it was a mix of both terms... schadenfreude for the way I was feeling...but it was ironic that my teacher unfairly took the solo away from me (because I was a guy)and gave it to someone who messed it up. It was also ironic that she made a big, public deal about me messing up when it was her "golden girl" who had really played so bad.
They aren't mutually exclusive terms, you know.
Kwea
PS Justa, that is a cool term though...I never heard of it before....
[ July 25, 2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
quote:You seem to use this phrase quite a bit, love. Maybe rethink that.
In 242 posts, I've used it a grand total of twice. I meant it both times. Maybe rethink your advice.
Kwea, I know what you mean, and have been there, too. Not just in band, but in choir as well.
But you know what I learned a few years later? I learned that despite my indignancy for what I percieved deserved justice, both events really had very little to do with me at all, no matter how much better I thought I am or was. It was a difficult fact to deal with, but I had to finally accept that the world didn't revolve around me.
I came to this conclusion after being asked to leave a regular 5-piece rock band a few years later. They weren't going to find someone who could do for them what I was, which was not only excellent and wide-ranged vocals, but figuring out songs solely by listening to them a few times to get the basic key a rhythm. I knew most of the other bands in the area, and I knew what kind of talent was coming out of the schools. They weren't going to find someone better than me outside of higher-end professionals, and the band just couldn't afford that.
Despite that, though, the band wasn't about me. The band was about having 5 people in it who could work together well, not 4 guys who can and one who can't but is really talented. Listen to your favorite pop or rock or whatever music, and you'll see what I mean. More often than otherwise, the music that actually gets made doesn't require a virtuoso, it requires the band working together. Some of my favorite songs have a bass or a drum or a keyboard or a rhythm track that would just put me to sleep playing.
Even with the 5-piece band, I was still angry. Unlike Calvin's story, I actually worked with the band for a number of months before being inevitably replaced. I got more time to build up a reason to be angry. Then I realized that I was so pissed not because I was more talented or better suited for the job than anyone else, I was pissed and hurt because I didn't get my own way. It's not that the band wasn't getting their way by having me, who was obviously the superior choice at the time, it was me that wasn't getting my way. In other words, I was angry because I was being a brat about being rejected. I was being bitter.
And frankly, I think CalvinMaker is experiencing the same thing. So, I don't think it's really irony at all. The probability of the issues with the other band being something totally unrelated to Calvin are far lower than the probability that it had something to do with Calvin at all. It's not that I am not giving CalvinMaker the benefit of the doubt, it is that I am also giving the other band the benefit of the doubt as well.
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Wasn't there a short discussion on the definition of irony a couple weeks ago? Someone mentioned that there was a difference between dramatic irony and other forms of irony.
Can that person come back and straighten this out?
Jutsa (or should we say Justa?): Why do you feel a need to put on this, "I used to be just like him. Pathetic. Now I've learned. He'll learn too." It's condescending and a shot in the dark. If you're right, Noah would learn on his own without your "well-intentioned" help. If you're wrong, you annoyed us for no good reason and would never feel the need to apologize for it. Because you'd never let us prove you wrong.
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
Since I'm not playing some condescending role, and telling him outright that it sounds more bitter than anything else, I think you're jumping on me for the wrong reasons. Kwea gave an example from his experience, I gave one from mine. My opinion about the start of this thread is based on more than just my own opinions, though. For example, CalvinMaker's habit of posting other threads complaining about other people's parents, calling them evil for making a situation where he is displeased. It seems a pattern, if you ask me, but I wasn't going to harp on that. Instead, I was just going to say that this situation did not look ironic and that it just looked like CM was being bitter. I didn't feel the need to turn this into a discussion about a common thread in all of the threads he's posted, because he's not doing anything wrong and doesn't seem at all like a bad guy (quite the opposite).
Get off my back, please.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: Since I'm not playing some condescending role
You sure could have fooled me.
quote: Kwea gave an example from his experience, I gave one from mine.
The difference being that Kwea used a good deal more tact.
quote: For example, CalvinMaker's habit of posting other threads complaining about other people's parents, calling them evil for making a situation where he is displeased. It seems a pattern, if you ask me, but I wasn't going to harp on that
And yet you just did harp on it. Way to be un-harping.
quote: Instead, I was just going to say that this situation did not look ironic and that it just looked like CM was being bitter.
As you put it so well from your very first post on this thread. I actually found your comments on schadenfreude very interesting, but your tone was and still is insufferably condescending.
quote: I didn't feel the need to turn this into a discussion about a common thread in all of the threads he's posted
And yet you just have...
quote: because he's not doing anything wrong and doesn't seem at all like a bad guy (quite the opposite).
Nice to know that now that you've spent the last thread lambasting him for his use of one word in his thread.
quote: Get off my back, please.
Practice what you preach, love.
[ July 25, 2004, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
quote:And yet you just did harp on it. Way to be un-harping.
You're the one who brought it up. Don't damn me for it.
quote:As you put it so well from your very first post on this thread. I actually found your comments on schadenfreude very interesting, but your tone was and still is insufferably condescending.
It's amazing that you can hear my tone with the words I type. I'm glad you know me so well. Otherwise, no one would know what I mean.
quote:Nice to know that now that you've spent the last thread lambasting him for his use of one word in his thread.
I didn't lambast anyone, and this isn't the first time. I'm really not in the mood to go searching throught the threads, but feel free to yourself, Mr High and Mighty.
quote:Practice what you preach, love.
See, now that is irony, folks. Someone taking upon themselves to attack me for being condescending, who does so by being condescending themselves. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Sheesh. NO ONE on this thread is using the word "irony" properly. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Does anyone use the word properly? It's like the common use of "hypocrisy" to mean "The pot calling the kettle black".
[ July 25, 2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
That's ironic Tom....you are in the thread, so that means by your own logic you didn't use it correctly either.
So you just wrote a post complaining about the use of the word irony while using it yourself...
How ironic....
[ July 26, 2004, 04:16 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Ironic would be if Calvin were complaining about the band's use of the English language, and yet misused an apostrophe in the title of the thread
Personally, I'm getting tired of all the hair-splitting about the meaning of the word "ironic" ... I'm thinking that the "poetic justice" use of the word is starting to become widespread enough that the word itself is gaining a new meaning.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Justa, I was simply thinking that you don't really know him, and so you have no true idea which term might be more correct. From what he said, it sounded like an ironic situation to me.
As he was posting HIS view of the situation, he would know if it was ironic to him, right?
People can have differences in their opinion of what is ironic to them (or not), just like their can differ on what is funny or not. There is no real true answer because they both are matters of perspective....and your (and mine) perspective on that situation isn't as clear as CM perspective, as you aren't involved personally. You don't really know anything other than CM has said, right?
I know what you mean about the world not revolving around any one person. I agree....but that doesn't mean that I need to adopt some world-weary attitude about things either.
I figured that out years ago when I was still a teenager, to tell you the truth.
The situation might be BOTH, you know. Even if you don't think it was ironic, that doesn't mean it wasn't to others.... CM included.
After all, the world doesn't revolve around you, remember?
And there might be an element of sour grapes too...
It doesn't have to be black or white.
quote:For example, CalvinMaker's habit of posting other threads complaining about other people's parents, calling them evil for making a situation where he is displeased. It seems a pattern, if you ask me, but I wasn't going to harp on that. Instead, I was just going to say that this situation did not look ironic and that it just looked like CM was being bitter
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As you put it so well from your very first post on this thread. I actually found your comments on schadenfreude very interesting, but your tone was and still is insufferably condescending. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's amazing that you can hear my tone with the words I type
FYI, tone carries pretty well even in writing. It may be a little different, or harder to judge tone here in cyberspace, but it does come across fairly well....
It sounded like that was exactly what you were doing about CM's posts, right?
And you aren't the only person who uses a persons history of posts to judge tone, either.
[ July 26, 2004, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
For the record:
quote: 3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play -- called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
Boldface is mine.
CM though that the better person )skill-wise) would get the job, but they gave it to the lesser skilled person...and their music is suffering because of it....so he thought is was ironic, and if it is true (there lies the rub) he would be right.
Normal expectation would be best gets the job, right?
[ July 26, 2004, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Normal expectation would be best gets the job, right?"
No, because CM already assumed he was better. But it's no biggie. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
aronic? *giggles*
[ July 26, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)