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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
On July 3rd, 2004, France kicks off its annual bike race: le Tour de France. Lance Armstrong will begin his bid to win 6 Tours, a feat that has never before been accomplished.

In this thread, I will give a preview of the upcoming stage, and a summary of the day’s stage results. Also, we can have discussions about the Tour, be it questions about whatever you want to know, or arguments over who should win or how someone should ride. Happy 2004!

Preview: Prologue
Notes about the stage:The prologue is notoriously short, the next shortest races in the Tour are the individual time trials (the prologue is also, technically a time trial, in that each rider starts by themselves and can not be helped by anyone else on the road, but because of it’s distance it’s normally categorized separately), those time trials are often around 30 KM. This year there’s a much shorter one (Stage 16) at 15.5 KM, but that is because it’s right up the side of a mountain at an average of 7.9% grade, there’s also a much longer one (Stage 19) that is 55.5 KM.
What to Watch For:There are some very sharp turns, cobblestones, and very long curves. The winner will have to risk a lot on all these elements, so watch for those and see how they handle them. The person who can start pedaling the soonest after a tight curve will probably also be the winner, let’s just hope no one falls!
Don’t expect big time gaps, the prologue is far too short for that (last year it was won by Brad McGee by .08 seconds), however, all the main competitors will want to be in a good showing. With the other major short time-trialist out this year (David Millar, who is out for drug use) I expect Brad McGee to win again, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the fast, big competitors for the race win really steps up and takes it (here I’m referring to Armstrong, Hamilton, and Ullrich; there are other major contenders but they are climbers, and couldn’t take this stage win if they wanted it).
Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 26, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Prologue

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:As can be seen Cancellara won today’s prologue, he took it at 6:50, Armstrong finishing 2 seconds behind him t 6:52, Cancellara’s average speed was 53.560 km/hr (a little over 33 mph), the third fastest prologue in the history of the Tour. Armstrong’s incredibly high finish came as a surprise to most people, he seemed to be in terrific form, and was pounding right out of the corners. Ulrich lost 17 seconds to Cancellara, and Hamilton 18 (meaning they lost 15 and 16 seconds respectively to Armstrong). These can be significant gaps, meaning that as of now, Armstrong is well in first place among serious GC contenders. The climbers who are challenging Armstrong this year came in even farther behind (Mayo is at 21 seconds behind, 19 seconds behind Armstrong).

On interesting result of a prologue, is that there are sprinting points awarded in it, and the fastest man always takes it, so the leader of the race is in Yellow, Green, and because he’s 23 or under, he’s in the white jersey (young rider’s competition). He will be wearing yellow tomorrow, and so second in points competition (Armstrong for finishing second) will be in Green, and same for white. It’s not often the GC favorite is seen sporting green!

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 1
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This stage (in Belgium) is a bit hilly early on, but nothing overly difficult. The second half the stage flattens out and moves into rolling hills instead of actual climbs, though the wind may be strong here. The final sprint is at a very long straight-away, 1.7 KM of flat, straight road.

What to Watch For:
This being the first stage of the Tour there will probably be lots of attempted break-aways. The climbs early on will serve as the ideal launching pad for all sorts of riders (especially look for riders who are from Belgium teams, or Belgium riders themselves trying to get some glory in the country, where this stage is). It is possible that a break-away could succeed, but most likely we’ll see a sprint finish. Early on in the Tour the sprinter’s teams tend to be able to keep the pace high enough to make sure no break-aways make it to the finish. If there’s head wind in the flat section (the last half), you can pretty much discount any hope for the breaks.

The very long, very flat sprint finish is more ideally suited for Alessandro Petacchi (and Mario Cipollini) then the other major sprinters (Cooke, Zable, McEwen and the like). Watch for an impressive Fassa Bortolo lead-out (Petacchi’s team, they’ve been on high form this year) and don’t be surprised when the flying Italian blows by his competition at the final sprint.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
I enjoyed watching it. Too bad about Matthw White. I think that's his name. You know, the guy who crashed while practicing and broke his collar bone just two hours before the start of the prologue. [Frown]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
He's spent years trying to get to the Tour, and was always cut at the last minute. This morning he made the announcment "I'm finally here", then he goes and crashes on a training ride the day of the start? [Frown] is right.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
Yup. Just two hours before the start of the Prologue, he rides over a tv cable that had just been strung for the coverage of the race. He lands on his shoulder and breaks his collar bone. [Frown] I saw him being carried off on a strtcher when I watched the prologue on OLN.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 1

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:This stage had a variety of occurrences in it (I had forgotten how much fun it was to follow all the break-aways and various happenings through-out the stage). I’d say the main things that defined the structure of the stage was 2 breakaways, the final sprint, and all sorts of crashes, or crash like things.

The first break-away started up right away, within the first ten kilometers or so. It lasted out around 100 kilometers, but the sprinter’s teams were attentive and never let the break gain even 4:00 minutes. This whole time it was raining and dreary, the roads were slick and dangerous, and the race showed it. Mario Cippolini dropped off the back, and so did Brad McGee, both of whom took a lot of time to get back. Many others fell on the course (including Tyler Hamilton and one guy in the first break) but they were all fine.

After the race came back together there was some calm, but then two riders jumped off the front, with under 100 KM to go. Marc Wauters and Jakob Piil, two men who are good time trialists took off and surprisingly put some big time between themselves and the peleton. They worked their break-away up to a two minute lead, pretty significant considering they were around 30 KM from the end. But then the time began coming down as the sprinter’s teams (including Fassa Bortolo who was defending the yellow jersey, and the king of the Sprints: Alessandro Petacchi) went to the front and began putting the hammer down. The break-away was caught within the last 2 kilometers, and it became the sprinter’s game.

Fassa Bortolo had been leading out the race much of the time due to the fact that they are currently carrying the yellow jersey, and when the time came for them to lead out Alessandro Petacchi they were out of energy. They made a strong effort, but they ended up delivering their man about 500 meters too short, and Petacchi had to fend for himself from there. He ended up getting stuck up in a bunch, and was unable to break out and put on a final sprint effort, causing him to finish third.

The man of the hour was Jaan Kirsipuu, 35 years old (very old for a sprinter) who came up and barely took the win, with Robbie McEwen in hot pursuit. It was a great day for Kirsipuu, who hasn’t won a sprint in a long time, to win at the Tour is everyone’s dream, and Kirsipuu lived it today.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 2
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This stage takes place mostly in Belgium, but has a 50 KM stretch in France towards the middle. The ride is pancake flat, two tiny category 4 climbs make up the entirety of the hills, so this will be a very fast stage.

What to Watch For:
Once again, watch for break-aways. There will undoubtedly be some attempted break-aways (probably a few riders will try and launch themselves off of Silenrieux, the very short and steep climb at the middle). The success of these is marginal due to the high cadence the sprinter’s teams will undoubtedly be setting, and a head-wind could demolish all hope, but there’s certainly a chance that a break-away could make it conditions willing, only way to find that out is to watch.

This finishing sprint is more technical then the previous one, a sharp turn very close to the finish, Alessandro Petacchi is thus not a necessarily a shoe-in for the win, Cooke, and Zable are going to be trying hard on this one.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
In other news, McGee suffered very seriousl at the end of the stage, and feel off the back before the end, he made it to the end with the help of a teammate, but undoubtly now serious discussions are going on as to his staying in the race. He sights illness and specific mountain training as the cause for his poor showing, but it's a shame to see a time-trial specialist suffer on the flat.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
I got back from my weekend at Le Tour last night a bit after midnight. For the prologue, we were standing a few hundred feet north of the Pont des Arches (see map). The riders came pust us heading north, went around a hairpin turn and then passed us heading south. We were just past the 3 km time check so we could see the split times for each rider as they came passed. There were strong winds from the south south west for most of the race. Although the race followed a loop, this did not neutralize the wind factor. Except for the sections along the Meuse river, the route went through narrow city streets where buildings provide some protection from the wind. Riders had a fairly strong tail wind heading north along the river. Earlier in the race there were some crashes due to wind gusts. During the last half hour when the race favorites road, there was a substantial drop in wind speed and a slight change in wind direction. As a result, many of the leaders were posting times 10 to 20 seconds off the pace when they came through the 3 km time check. Many of the race leaders were taking the course cautiosly to avoid crashes. Better to loose 15 seconds by being to cautious than 40 from a crash.

Fabian Cancellara, who won the stage, came through about 40 minutes ahead of the leaders and so had a much better tailwind. If it weren't for the changes in wind, Lance would have beaten him and possibly several others.

With all of that said, Lance looked fantastic. He always has such perfect style on a bike. He came through the 3 km time check with an 8 second advantage on Jan and Tyler, and 9 seconds on Mayo which simply can't be attributed to meteriology since they were starting only minutes apart.

Lance's real advantage from his victory, is not the few seconds he took over his competitors. No one expects that they will be a deciding factor in the race. The real advantage is psychological. He made a statement and has put the other favorites on the defensive.

It is also a strategic advantage that Lance didn't win the stage. Because Fabian Cancellara is in the yellow jersey, Fasso Bartolo will very likely step up to control the race for the next several days. This will take some of the load of US Postal and help them save energy for the team trial on Wednesday.

More on my on site observations from Stage 1 later.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
There are only three words needed to describe stage 1, wet, slippery hills.

In order to get to Liege for the Tour, Rich and I took the train to Aachen germany on Friday night. We camped outside Aachen that night, visit the famous Aachen cathedral on Saturday morning and then rode our bicycles about 35 miles to get to Liege. Since we were camping both friday and saturday nights, we had pretty much a full touring load on our bikes so we were not fast a maneuverable. Liege is pretty much surrounded by hills, the Ardiennes. They wouldn't qualify as mountains in the western US, but are alot like many of the mountains in Pennsylvania and New York. They start at about sea level and go upto 1600 feet in elevation. Te ride from Aachen to Liege was a series of very steep ascents followed by very steep decents which made for difficult riding. The terrane south of Liege is just the same. Rich and I road through much of the stage 1 route last year on our bicycle tour. Saturday morning was quite rainy and windy but the rain pretty much stopped about the time that the prologue started

After the prologue on Saturday, we road south along the Ourthe river where we new there we some pleasant woods for camping. Sunday morning was fairly pleasant weather but it started to rain hard around noon and continued for the rest of the day. We continued the ride south along the river and then climbed up out of the river gorge to Sprimont where we met up with the tour route. We saw dozens of cyclist out enroute to various points along stage 2. We met people from germany, england, and the US as well as many local belgians. In Sprimont, we found a spot along the curb to watch the race. By the time the race started, the street was completely packed with fans two to five people deep depending on the spot. We managed to get front row seat on the curb near the top of the hill in Sprimont (see map in Hobbes' post). This hill wasn't big enough to be rated but was just before the first rated climb of the tour. Three riders had broken away from the peleton coming into Sprimont in order to contest the coming climb. Although the hill wasn't rated, it was enough to slow the peleton down enough for us to have a good look at the riders. I haven't had a chance to look at any of my pics yet, if they turn out and anyone is interested I'll try to post them.

After the tour passed us, we fought our bikes through the traffic jam leaving town and road through the hills back to Aachen to catch the train. The roads were wet and very slippery and their were frequent high winds. The tour route went through some very tricky hills and turns which combined with the slippery roads resulted in many crashes(luckily no crashes for us). Both Tyler Hamilton and Mario Cippolini were involved in crashes.

Jan Ullrich writes a letter to his fans everyday which is posted on his website. Follow stage 1, he praised his team for protecting him well during the dangerous stage. He's got a bit of a cold, but the weather is improving so he's not too concerned about it getting worse.

This morning in Münster germany, which has similar weather to Belgium, it was raining hard but by noon the sun was out. The weather forecast is for sunshine tomorrow which should make the cobblestones a bit less dangerous. Rain is forcast again for wednesday's time trial which should favor US Postal but we shall see.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
Since Hobbes hasn't mentioned it yet, Robbie McEwen (Australia) won stage 2 in a sprint finish. Thor Hushovd (Nor) took second and claimed the yellow jersey. He is the first Norwegian ever to wear the yellow jersey during the tour.

As expected, there was no change in the time gaps between the favorites.

[ July 05, 2004, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Hobbes got up a little after 6:00am to watch the race live, after getting to sleep rather late due to fireworks, he just woke up after taking a nap following the end of stage 2, the summary, and stage 3 preview will be on their way in a bit here, but I'll update the title to reflect McEwen's very big win. [Smile]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 2

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:This was a text-book flat stage, very simple, and yet utterly complex to anyone not familiar with this type of racing. At 10 KM from the start (right at the beginning of the race basically) a small group broke away, as is very common in the flat stages of the Tour, and began gaining time. They worked their break up to 5 minutes off the front of the peleton.

The sprinter’s teams, who wanted to see the sprint at the end determine the winner, not a break-away, went to the front and set up a high pace to chance down the break. The time gap began to come down, and so the teams eased up on the chase. Why? Because as soon as the break-away is caught, other break-aways will come and cause the teams to do more work. So they let the break-away hang off of the front of the peleton for a while, keeping all the other break-away hopefuls back in the pack.

Of course towards the end they do have to catch the break-away, or the sprinters wont have their day. So towards the end, the peleton reels in the break-away, and then keeps up the pace until the end, to make sure no one can break off the front.

As they approach the end, Fassa Bortolo sets up their team train, the lead-out for Alessandro Petacchi. They get going, and they’re looking much better than their monumental meltdown yesterday. Only they aren’t prepared for the caliber of sprinters, or at least the desire of the sprinters. A rider from another team breaks into the lead-out, and breaks it into, and literally breaks it up. The lead-out is torn to pieces and the sprinters are left out on their own. Alessandro Petacchi doesn’t seem to have it, and doesn’t appear in the final sprint to the finish. Robbie McEwen makes a move right before the sharp curve 250 meters from the end and puts in a burst of speed that absolutely destroys the field. He sits up and takes the sprint with room to spare.

Thor Hushovd takes second, which gives him a 12 second bonus, enough to be first in the GC, a fabulous result for this rider from Norway, the yellow jersey will brighten up anyone’s day.

The contenders for the final win (Armstrong, Ulrich, Hamilton and the like) all remained completely static, no time change between them.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 06, 2004, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 3
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This stage moves the race from Belgium over to France, leaving the small, cycling-hungry country for the rest of the Tour. It’s an incredibly flat stage, the biggest climb is only 1 kilometer long, the technical part of the course is featured not in the climbs, but in the cobblestones that make up two major sections of the race.
What to Watch For:
Of course there will be break-aways along the course, as there always are, but there are some specific points of interest in this course, ones that could allow those break-aways to succeed for once. I’m referring to the two cobblestone sections. The rough conditions make it dangerous for the peleton, so many riders packed together, they’ll slow down and strong out, and that can be the impotence a break-away needs, especially since they’re so close to the finish.

Watch for some of the shorter specialists, time-trialists, probably also would’ve done well in the prologue. They’ll try and get their day in the sun through a break that makes full use of those cobblestones.

Also watch out for crashes! Cobblestones can lead to major calamities in the best conditions, and if it’s rainy out, except to see a lot of riders going down, there’s few things more dangerous than this type of condition.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 06, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
quote:
that can be the impotence a break-away needs
Either you meant "impetus" or I really don't understand the Tour. [Big Grin]

Dagonee
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
[Razz] This is why stupid people shouldn't use spell-checker. By the way, great race going on as I type this, anyone who can should go to OLN. [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 3

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:This was an absolutely fascinating stage, and the first in a long time where a real GC contender lost the race on a flat stage (team time-trial excepted). The dynamics of the race started early on, within the first 5 kilometers in fact, when two men broke away from the front of the field. They began building up their lead, and by 20 kilometers from the cobblestones they had a 6:30 advantage. To pull it back for a bunch sprint the sprinter’s teams were going to have to work hard to bring that gap back. Only the cobblestones started playing a part at 15 kilometers out.

The cobblestone sections (pave) are very narrow, and they are very rough riding. Even in the clear weather we had today, they are very dangerous, and prone to crashes, so all the big contenders want to be out in the front of the race, that way chances are no one will fall in front of them and bring them down.

So at 15 KM out from the first (longer) section, the big teams went to the front, trying to get their leader out of the way of danger. USPS, Phonak, T-Mobile, Euskaltel-Euskadi, all of them were at the front powering forward. Then, just before the cobblestones, it happened. Unfortunately there were no cameras covering it, so no one is really sure why it happened, but someone went down, and with the someone, many others. It took everyone (including his team) a short while to realize that GC contender Iban Mayo was one of those fallen.

He had some scratches, but was otherwise all right, however now he was trailing far behind the main group. His team got back (all 7 of them) and began trying to pace him back to the main group, but there was trouble. For one, Euskaltel-Euskadi is built solely for the mountains, there are no fast men on the flat on this team. They were working as hard as they could, but their inexperience on the flat, and the cobblestones stopped them from catching up to the main peleton, until the peleton broke.

The cobblestones caused a massive thinning of the peleton, only a few riders could ride abreast, and so any slow down by any of the rider would cause a break in the peleton, one that no one could get around to bridge. USPS had managed to win the race to the pave, and they were turning out an incredible pace at the front of the group. It wasn’t an attack, they weren’t trying to break clear, but it was too much for some of the riders, who broke off, and caused this split in the peleton.

Once off the pave, USPS kept the pace high, and when they realized Mayo wasn’t in their group, it was time to attack. They knew how ill-suited both Mayo and his team were for flat stages, so they took advantage of it. USPS, with some help from Phonak and T-Mobile, began setting a very high pace. They caught the two man lead easily, and blew by.

By the time the second section of pave was reached, the final result was clear, Mayo was out of the Tour. By the end of the race, he had lost almost 4 minutes. It is almost impossible to loose 4 minutes and come back in this race, and he’ll be losing more time tomorrow in the team time-trial. Iban Mayo is now out of contention.

In the final sprint, we saw a win from Nazon, and McEwen coming in third. The third place means an 8 second time bonus, which puts McEwen in the lead of the Tour by one second, he becomes the 4th Aussie to wear yellow.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 4
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This is the team time-trial. Here each team sets off 5 minutes after the team in front. The teams will set off in opposite order of ranking (determined by the top three riders from each team in the GC). At the bottom of this post, there’s a lit of the team’s ranking going into the time trial.
The stage itself has no significant climbs, but is made up of rolling hills; one big factor could be a strong head and/ cross-wind.
What to Watch For:USPS is certainly looking to win this year, they’ll be battling it out with CSC, T-Mobile, and Phonak. Those are the big teams and predicted winners. The advantage will have to go to USPS in terms of both preparation and team make-up, though they did put in some extra hard work in today’s stage, it’s possible their energy-banks have been cashed in for a bit.
Euskaltel-Euskadi, now riding in last, will be exhausted from an almost continual chase, and will no doubt hit the 2:30 barrier (a new rules this year is that no team can loose more the 2:30 in the team time trial) pushing Mayo even further back in the GC, completely out of contention.

1 US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR USP in 41h 08' 56"
2 FASSA BORTOLO FAS at 00' 04"
3 TEAM CSC CSC at 00' 06"
4 PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS PHO at 00' 06"
5 RABOBANK RAB at 00' 21"
6 T-MOBILE TEAM TMO at 00' 25"
7 LIBERTY SEGUROS LST at 00' 29"
8 FDJEUX.COM FDJ at 00' 31"
9 GEROLSTEINER GST at 00' 32"
10 AG2R PREVOYANCE A2R at 00' 35"
11 ILLES BALEARS - B. SANTANDER IBB at 00' 39"
12 DOMINA VACANZE DVE at 00' 50"
13 QUICK STEP - DAVITAMON QSD at 00' 51"
14 BRIOCHES LA BOULANGERE BLB at 00' 51"
15 ALESSIO - BIANCHI ALB at 00' 56"
16 LOTTO - DOMO LOT at 01' 00"
17 SAECO SAE at 04' 53"
18 R.A.G.T. SEMENCES - MG ROVER RAG at 05' 00"
19 COFIDIS CREDIT PAR TELEPHONE COF at 08' 19"
20 CREDIT AGRICOLE C.A at 11' 44"
21 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI EUS at 12' 04"

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 06, 2004, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Hobbes what are you smoking? The Team Time trial isn't Stage 2, it's Stage 4. I'm confused.

AJ
(Oh must be a typo, your preview for stage 3 is also labeled stage 2, but it makes for confusing reading.)

AJ

[ July 06, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Whoops, forgot to change that, sorry. [Embarrassed]

[EDIT: Yah, I caught that too. Obviously there's a lot of formatting going on in these posts, so I just copy and paste, but I sometimes forget to check the top of the document. [Embarrassed] ]

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 06, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Thanks I was just confus-ed for a bit there [Wink]

AJ
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
This was an absolutely fascinating stage, and the first in a long time where a real GC contender lost the race on a flat stage (team time-trial excepted).
Something similar happened in 1999, the first year Lance won the tour. In one of the early flat stages, the tour crossed over a section of road that is submerged at high tide. The road was wet and very slippery and there was a major crash that took about half the riders. Because the crash occurred on this narrow stretch of road through the ocean, there was no way around. Everyone behind the crash (about 2/3) of the riders lost over 5 minutes on the stage. Lance was up in front with the small group of riders who made it through. Zulle, who was at the time considered the favorite to win the Tour was caught behind the crash and lost over 5 minutes to Lance. On the final day in Paris, Zulle was in second place a little over 6 minutes behind Armstrong. If not for the first crash, the gap would have been only one minute. With such a small time gap, the strategies for both teams would have been very diffent and the it is entirely possible that Zulle could have won the Tour.

So Hobbes, it hasn't been that long since a prime contender lost the race on one of the early flat stages.

This was indeed a very interesting stage.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
5 years ago is 5% of Tour history, more if you count the fact that it hasn't raced every year since it began, that's long enough for me. [Cool]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Ahh but I remember watching the old ABC weekend updates back in the days of Greg Lemond before OLN started their full coverage. I watched the epic time trial between Lemond and Fignon when Lemond was ridiculed for the special time trial equipment...until it worked.

And that still wasn't that long ago. 5% ain't nothin' in terms of a race with this history Hobbes. [Wink]

AJ

[ July 06, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
The weather might end up playing a big role in tomorrows team time trial. The weather is supposed to be mostly sunny tomorrow morning and early afternoon but there is a storm moving in and rain is forcast for evening. The timing of this storming is critical. If it starts to rain in the middle of the race, the late starting teams could be at a disadvantage with wet dangerous road conditions. With any luck, that won't happen. No one wants to see a major championship decided by the weather.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
5 years ago is 5% of Tour history, more if you count the fact that it hasn't raced every year since it began, that's long enough for me.
You are showing your youth Hobbes. Do you even remember the days of Miguel Indurain?

Since many of the key riders involved or in front of that crash are in the race this year, you can bet that none of them have forgotten it.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I think you have to go back to "The Great" Eddie Merckx before it is actually non-recent history. People are still reliving the Hinault-Lemond battles like it was yesterday.

Have they posted yet what order the teams are going off tomorrow? I know T-Mobile and USPS are neck and neck for the best total team time. So they will be going off within minutes of each other and thus should face near identical conditions. There is the whole 2 minute 30 second maximum loss limitation too. If Tyler's team is significantly different in position from the last two he could have a major advantage in weather conditions.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
T-Mobile is sixth, USPS is first.

1 US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR USP in 41h 08' 56"
2 FASSA BORTOLO FAS at 00' 04"
3 TEAM CSC CSC at 00' 06"
4 PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS PHO at 00' 06"
5 RABOBANK RAB at 00' 21"
6 T-MOBILE TEAM TMO at 00' 25"
7 LIBERTY SEGUROS LST at 00' 29"
8 FDJEUX.COM FDJ at 00' 31"
9 GEROLSTEINER GST at 00' 32"
10 AG2R PREVOYANCE A2R at 00' 35"
11 ILLES BALEARS - B. SANTANDER IBB at 00' 39"
12 DOMINA VACANZE DVE at 00' 50"
13 QUICK STEP - DAVITAMON QSD at 00' 51"
14 BRIOCHES LA BOULANGERE BLB at 00' 51"
15 ALESSIO - BIANCHI ALB at 00' 56"
16 LOTTO - DOMO LOT at 01' 00"
17 SAECO SAE at 04' 53"
18 R.A.G.T. SEMENCES - MG ROVER RAG at 05' 00"
19 COFIDIS CREDIT PAR TELEPHONE COF at 08' 19"
20 CREDIT AGRICOLE C.A at 11' 44"
21 EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI EUS at 12' 04"

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Mayo may be out of the yellow competition. But, I'm sure he's still hungry. Do you think he could aim for the King of the Mountains instead to play spoiler to the rest of the GC contenders?

AJ
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
I think that the teams will start in reverse order of the team standings after todays stage. They are

1 US Postal presented by Berry Floor 41.08.56
2 Fassa Bortolo 0.04
3 Team CSC 0.06
4 Phonak Hearing Systems
5 Rabobank 0.21
6 T-Mobile Team 0.25
7 Liberty Seguros 0.29
8 Fdjeux.Com 0.31
9 Gerolsteiner 0.32
10 Ag2R Prevoyance 0.35
11 Illes Balears-Banesto Santander 0.39
12 Domina Vacanze 0.50
13 Quick Step-Davitamon 0.51
14 Brioches La Boulangere
15 Alessio-Bianchi 0.56
16 Lotto-Domo 1.00
17 Saeco 4.53
18 R.A.G.T. Semences-MG Rover 5.00
19 Cofidis Credit Par Telephone 8.19
20 Credit Agricole 11.44
21 Euskaltel-Euskadi

There are 5 minutes between the start times for each team, so if I am right about the order T-Mobile will be departing 25 minutes before US Postal which is enough time for things to change.

If a storm is coming in, there might also be big shifts in the wind during the race. The time span between the first starting teams, and the last is only 100 minutes, much less that the 3 or more hours for a individual time trial but still long enough for there to be a major change in road or wind conditions.
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
I wouldn't count Mayo out yet. Remember Zulle finished second after his big crash. Mayo is a great climber and his team is designed to give him the advantage in the mountains. It is not impossible that he could pull something off. The field is very deep this year and it will take not only skill but also luck but I suspect that Mayo isn't ready to surrender just yet. The Pyrenees are virtually home town for this Basque and expect that he will launch a major attach on stage 12. If that doesn't work, I can imagine him shooting for the king of the mountains title but I don't see him choosing that until after stage 12.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I'm listening to the audio feed from work and scanning the updates when I get a chance. It is raining the weather is awful. At the first checkpoint USPS was 5th or 6th. They have already lost a rider off the back that had an accident yesterday. Hopefully he can make it in below the elimination time because they are going to need him later on. Phonak (Tyler Hamilton's team) was marginally faster at the first checkpoint. Jan's team marginally slower. All of the contenders teams were slower than the earlier times in the day. Accidents and mechanical problems abound.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
at the second checkpoint USPS went from 30 seconds behind at the first checkpoint to 26 seconds ahead... the best time of the day!

They are worried that the rider lost off the back won't make the minimum time though.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
and the OLN website crashed.... lovely!

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I still have the audio intermittently. I believe USPS came in 2nd overall in the team time trial. Considering the conditions were far worse than the early dry fast time, this is incredible. Lance should be in yellow at the end of the day.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
no maybe they actually won... argh stupid internet!

AJ
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
You should rename this thread....OJ's worst nightmare... [Big Grin]

[ July 07, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
USPS won by an absolutley astounding time, I'll post the summary later. [Smile]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I love this thread.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Cool, I'll check it when I get home, sometime around 10pm EST.

Where do you two get your up to the min updates, anyway? I googled it, but all the stuff I foung was too old....

Kwea
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
You can go here for newsflashes, the full page is here (click on Live). I've actually shifted my work schedual so that I can stay home and watch the entire tour live on OLN, it's a lot easier to do that when you've got an extra hour back on your time-zone. [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
((((((((((Kat)))))))))) [Big Grin] [Cool] [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 3

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:It was wet, it was rainy, and it was long. It was full of an incredible number of crashes, just about every single domestique seemed to go down at one point or another, flat tires all over the place, the race was a bloody mess. And yet it was also completely thrilling.
Euskaltel-Euskadi started off first (since they were last in the team classification) and set out a very high pace for them. They put in an excellent ride that remained first through-out much of the race. And since the rain was strongest in the middle and towards the end, and just starting out when the boys in orange began, they also made it through without a series loss in that category.

Other teams were on the road, and the rate of crashes and flats was incredibly high. It seemed every few seconds we would switch coverage to someone who had his hand raised to request a new tire, or to see some other rider falling hard in a turn. The wind wasn’t too strong, but that’s about it, the riders were falling all over the place, equipment was breaking, and more riders got left behind than I can count.

Either due to this, or the big effort put into it, E-E’s ride lasted for a long time, barley beating out Saeco’s performance. Another big surprise came in with Liberty Segoros, Heras’s team, supposed to suffer from the same, all-climber fate of Mayo’s E-E squad, but they put in a great time, and kept the team together (just about the only team, or possible the only team to arrive with 9 at the end).

When the big teams set off, the rain was at it’s peak, a real down pouring, and the course showed it. T-Mobile, Phonak, USPS, they all put in very slow times coming out of town. These entrances and exits in cities are especially dangerous in the rain because of the sharp curves, and the ever-prevalent white road markings. Their slight elevation, and incredible slickness in rain make them indescribably treacherous, and many riders went down on them today.

T-Mobile managed to keep most of their riders up-right, stopping for one man who fell towards the beginning. Phonak had no such luck, just about every rider went down at one point, continual tire changes had to be made. They seemed to be going fast and strong, but they kept crashing and needing changes, By the end of the race, they were down to five riders. This is an incredibly difficult thing, the team gets the time of the 5th rider to cross the line, which means that if one more rider from Phonak had fallen, they would’ve had to wait for them, or someone behind them before their time would stop ticking by. But they pushed hard, showed good form, and most importantly, stayed upright through the end. They ended up putting in an absolutely stellar time, especially considering their hard-ship.

T-Mobile stayed strong, and powered through the event, but they’ve never been very good at it. Their organization and flow isn’t up to par, so while they rode hard and put in a decent time, they fell behind Tyler Hamilton’s Phonak team.

Of course I’ve left off one other team, USPS. They came into the first time check, seconds ahead of T-Mobile and many seconds behind the leaders there. Of course they were going slowly through the more dangerous area of town, but it was going to take some real effort. Then, a little ways on, one of their riders, the only one to have never ridden the Tour before, fell off the pack. He crashed very hard yesterday, and he wasn’t able to keep up. So Postal had to go without him. Now losing one rider isn’t what you want ideally, but it’s not a big deal. However, everyone has to come in within 25% of the winning time, or their eliminated from the race. 25% is a big margin, but when you’re out on your on you’ll be going substantially slower than the teams, and if you’re hurt and can’t keep up, it becomes dangerous. This rider was brought in for the final week of the tour (the mountains) and losing him now could be a large blow to USPS.

But they motor on by, they can’t afford to wit for him. By the second time check they’ve put in seconds ahead of the leaders in an amazing surge. They’re form is better then text-book, and they seem to have power to spare. The final check-point before the end shows them a minute in the front of the next closest team, and without losing anyone they power to the finish 1:07 in front of second place, an absolutely astounding finish.

To understand how impressive that is, you can look at the next 5 teams down (2-6). They all finished within 50 seconds of each other, and USPS won by over a minute! That’s an unheard of victory margin in this event. And not only that, their lone rider made it under the time-cut, allowing the team to stay 9 men strong. A real expedition for USPS, and a real mental blow to the other big competitors.

Now there’s one thing I just found out yesterday, and it explains why it’s only a mental blow. There were some new rules put into effect this year regarding the team time trial, I’d known for a while that there was a limit that anyone racing could only loose 3 minutes to the winning team (well actually I thought it was 2:30 but not the point). However, not only is this true, but each place finisher also has a limit. Second place can loose by no more than 20 seconds, third by 30, and all the way down to 21st. Which means that despite beating Phonak by 1:07, USPS only gets a 20 second advantage on them. However, this true beating of all competitors should send a very clear message: Armstrong is ready.

The time Armstrong gained on the few riders in front of him in the GC was more than enough to put him in the lead. He's currently wearing his 60th Yellow Jersey (which ties Indurain for third most Yellows ever).

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 07, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 5
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This is a stage full of rolling hills, towns, sharp bends, and hardly any serious climbing. One rather mundane cat 4 climb is the biggest thing in it, what makes it difficult is the hills and the towns, a more technical aspect for the riders. The finishing straight is 1km long and flat.
What to Watch For:
Technically Armstrong’s team is now supposed to lead out the peleton due to the fact that he’s in Yellow, but chances are they wont be too interested in making sure no break-aways make it off the front, or in guaranteeing a bunch sprint. They’ll due their part, but don’t be surprised if the sprinter’s teams take over towards the end, especially if there are break-aways that need to be chased down.

These rolling hills and turn make an idea set-up for a break-away, but if there’s head-wind (as there is supposed to be) it can demolish small groups. However, I’m sure they’ll be plenty of people will to try. If they don’t succeed (as very few break-aways do before the mountains) then they’ll be a bunch sprint and good opportunity for Petacchi to finally come up with that win that’s be alluding him, and McEwen should be highly interested in it as well since he’s defending the green jersey right now.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 07, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
One interesting side-note to the team time trials:

The Austin Statesmen-whatever-it's-called reports that Lance did longer shifts at the front than he normally does -- 1.5 kilometers instead of 500 meters. Perhaps a bit of gamesmanship on the part of USPS, but it sends a message to the rest of the field.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Today was a messy day. Bad weather lots of crashes. There was a breakaway that got away because everyone let them go. The peleton was too wet to care and none of them were true GC contenders. No one panic when you see Lance is 9 minutes behind. 9 minutes is nothing in the mountains.

Here is another live update page that I discovered today after the fact. I may try to follow it tomorrow as well as the "official" oln site which can be a bit quirky. I also like the 'newsy' aspect of this site that isn't so much on the official site.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/?id=stages#stages

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Zal, the other thing is, Lance has been protected by his domestiques for the last couple of days. He's well rested. The team time trial is very important to him and them, and they wanted to win it emphatically. Why shouldn't they use their strongest man to help them do it. It does send a strong message as well. But strategicall not only the message but there isn't a lot of risk at this point, even if he exerts himself and is a little tired tomorrow, he has plenty of time to recoup before that last week of the Tour.

AJ
 
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
They said on the noon news that Lance Armstrong said this race will not be won in the northern region -- it will be won in the Pyrenees mountains...

Farmgirl
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yes, the Pyrenese mountains are the last week of the tour. Here's a map
http://www.letour.com/2004/us/index.html
(well if that comes up to the generic page, click on "the route" and then "maps")

Stave 15 has some grueling mountains and then Stage 16 the individual time trial up L' Alpe D'Huez is only 4 days before the finish. And Stage 19 three days later is also a time trial, though shorter and flatter and hugely draining considering the individual effort that will have to be expended on both stages.

The last week of this years tour is widely considered to be the most difficult one in decades.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Mountain Stages Summary in Brief.

Judging from the topography maps Stages 10 and 11 are "borderline" mountain stages. Stage 10 has a couple of category 1 and 2 climbs and STage 11 has at least a category 2 climb. These stages are the ones were people will be feeling each other out, to see how strong they are. The climbers that aren't a threat in the GC could break away for King of the Mountains points, and the top contenders would likely let them go, while eyeing each other warily.

The climbs are ranked. 4 being the easiest but still giving out King of the Mountain points (in other words a normal person would take all day to ride up it) 3 being tougher, 2 and 1 being brutally tough and HC the "Hors" category being certifiably insane.

Stage 12 has two Category 1 climbs and ends at the Top of one of those climbs. Definitely a mountain stage and the real beginning of the pain.

Stage 13 has two Category 1 climbs two Category 2 climbs (and a couple of assorted 3s and 4s tossed in for good measure) AND it ends on an Hors category. If there aren't GC moves here I would be surprised.

Stage 14 is a well needed flat stage, a respite before the true agony. They get a rest day the following day too.

Stage 15 has two Category 2s and 1 category 1. This again expect the mountain-only guys to go out. The GC guys will be probably conserving energy for Stage 16 but wanting to warm their legs up after the rest day. Surprises could happen this day but I doubt it.

Stage 16 the individual mountain time trial. It is them against the Hors category mountain. And they'd better have something in their tanks afterwards because the of the following stage. The advantage is that it isn't as long so they do have more time to rest and recuperate after the effort.

Stage 17 is I think the single cruelest day in terms of mountains. Three Category 1 mts, One Category 1 and 1 Hors category climb smack dab in the middle. Now if anyone has lost time in the time trial they will be desperate to make it up. I'd expect all hell to break loose at some point. It doesn't end on a peak but slightly down from it. Downhill descents are treacherous and people will be trying to make time on the way.

Stage 18 is still hilly but only one Category 2 climb. I wouldn't expect much to happen except with the sprinters because of the Stage 19 time trial on the flat. And the last Stage Stage 20 heading into Paris is flat too.

[ July 08, 2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I'm sure that Hobes who is doing a great job [Smile] will cover the stages in more detail but now you know what to expect.

All of the rest of the next week or so after the team time trial yesterday are for entertainment and the sprinters points and to make sure everyone is thoroughly worn down by the time they hit the moutains.

AJ
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
(Annie posting vicariously for Hobbes)

Summary: Stage 5

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:The weather just hasn’t been playing nice this tour, and for most riders, it means crashes, delays, nervousness, and general, all-around unfuness. For five riders today it meant their dreams could be fulfilled.

At 12 kilometers out (the website says 16 km, the coverage says 12, I have no way of knowing which is right, nor does it matter that much) a break-away went. 5 men jumped in on it and start building up their gap. This is no surprise, this happens just about every stage of the Tour, but there were two very significant differences about this break-away, neither of which had to do with the men in the break at all.

The first was that it got rainy, and very windy. This caused a number of crashes (some very big ones, all along the stage, though luckily the biggest leader to go down was Mario Cipollini, who is in no way worried about overall time). These crashes slowed down the peleton significantly, to the tune of several minutes combined. But the wind may have been a bigger factor.

A pure head wind will destroy a beak-away, because the peleton will have more men to take turns at the front, so each has to do less work, and the whole peleton can benefit immensely from that breaking of the draft. However a cross-wind, will break the peleton, force many riders into the gutter, and allow for the smaller groups to succeed.

This is, of course, what happened today, the winds, while occasionally being pure head-winds, were for the most part cross-winds. The break-away worked very, very well together, and formed an efficient echelon to effectively deal with the wind. The peleton did what peleton due, some riders worked well, and many got stuck in the gutter. The result was a slow peleton and a very fast break-away.

The second thing that made this break unique (forget there was two [Wink] ) was the leading team. Since Lance was in Yellow, USPS was supposed to be in charge of keeping the pace at the front, and so they did. But they don’t like doing it, it saps the energy from the team, and they know that they’ll have to be strong later on in the Tour, in the mountains. So they had no interest in reeling in the break-away, since a 3 minute break or more would mean the Yellow jersey passes on to Voeckler, one of the men in the break, and they can stop this work. The wind made for a large time gap between the break and the peleton, but there was still a chance to chase them down. But USPS, not surprisingly, never stepped up. The sprinter’s teams tried to chase down, but the continual crashes took the spunk out of them and they gave up and let USPS regulate the pace, the very slow pace.

The break won by 12 minutes and 33 seconds, not unheard of for a flat break-away, but it is a surprise for a break coming before the mountains. Now Voeckler has yellow, and his team is in charge of leading out the group. McEwen snagged the 6th place points bonus (Petacchi seems to have disappeared, and McEwen taken his spot as sprinter to beat) and is still in green.

I can not explain how perfect a Tour Lance is currently riding. Of course the big deficits and most important occurrences haven’t yet begun, but at this point Lance’s Tour is absolutely astoundingly perfect. He put in a fabulous prologue to both gain him small, but quite possibly meaningful, time gaps on his main competitors. He stayed clear of damaging crashes, and when the peleton broke up he managed to put very big time before the mountains between him and Mayo. Then in the Team Time Trial USPS rode strong enough to take just about the maximum allowed gaps on all of his rivals. Then, he got rid of the yellow jersey so he didn’t have to get USPS worn out the day after he obtained it, and did so without loosing so much as a second to his rivals. Maybe it’s luck, but right now Armstrong has not done a single thing wrong.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
Preview: Stage 7
Climbs:Notes about the stage:A mostly flat and rolling stage, this is another day out on the plains. Two short and easy climbs make up the entirety of the mountains in this stage, both about one kilometer in length, no one should have too much trouble on these.

What to Watch For:
Now that USPS has handed over the Yellow jersey, they’ll just try and stick at the front to protect Lance. However, the team now in charge is Brioches la Boulangere, since their man is in yellow, it’s their responsibility to lead the peleton and chase down any break-aways. It’s quite possible they wont be up to the task of defending yellow all the way to the Pyrenees, and I’m sure you’ll be hearing about that; however, this French team will give their all to make sure that their leader is in yellow as long as the can possibly keep him their. I don’t expect break-aways to succeed tomorrow because this team will be motivated and driven to make sure no one gets off the front. I wouldn’t be surprised if that changes in a few days, when they’re exhausted from the constant work they’ll be forced to do, but tomorrow, they’ll be putting in their all.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
I feel sorry for Brad McGee. Having to drop out of the race this early has got to be heartbreaking. [Frown]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
To clarify: the jerseys Hobbes posted today were what the riders were wearing today, not what they earned by the end of the stage. Lance will not be in yellow tomorrow because of the breakaway mentioned above.

What the standings were after the stage:
Yellow: Thomas VOECKLER
Green: Robbie MC EWEN
Polka Dot: Paolo BETTINI
White: Thomas VOECKLER but worn by Sandy CASAR the runner up, since Voeckler will be wearing Yellow

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
especially dropping out when it is your own stupid fault for planting trees in your yard and wrenching your back the week before...

AJ
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
How dare he have a life outside of racing...

[Razz]

[ July 08, 2004, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yeah but I know I'd blame myself even if it was a mostly normal harmless activity. This way he can prepare more adequately for the Olympics though.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Wow today is exciting, the breakaway nearly survived. Got caught in the last kilometer. Giant crash in the peloton at the 1km banner. They can't find Lance.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Hmm due to the chaos of the crash Lance has crossed the line 15 seconds behind Ulrich. Now they aren't yet sure how the times are going to be assigned because of the crash, since almost the entire peleton was held up. But it is possible that Ulrich will gain 15 seconds, although the anouncers suspect that due to the crash every one will be given the winners time.

AJ
 
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
This raises the following question for me -- it's probably a dumb question, but...

What keeps riders from using crashes strategically?

Obviously no rider wants to crash, but what keeps a team from having one of their lesser members (literally) take a dive in an attempt to knock out or slow down the favorite?
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
(pay no attention to the Annie behind the curtain. I am Hobbes, the great and terrible.)

Summary: Stage 6

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General Classification
Description:
This is what everyone expected from a flat stage. A few early attempted break-aways until finally one gets off the front a little after 10 kilometers into the race. Unfortunately, in that time, 4 USPS riders crash, including Armstrong, but they all got back up right away and everyone appears to be fine.

The break motored up to a 4.5 minute lead over the peleton, but the team of the yellow jersey was paying attention, and got some help from the sprinter's team's so it didn't get out of control. Then towards the end the yellow team had done their work, they'd controlled the break, and the highest person in it was 11 minutes away from taking yellow. The sprinter's teams began to take the front and work to bring back the break before the end.

The time came down just as normal, at the last mid-sprint the group broke up and 2 riders fell off. Now with only 4 riders left in the break the time was to come down rapidly, and then the sprinter's teams would reorganize to lead-out the sprinters themselves.

Except the time didn't come down as they'd planned. It was coming down of course, but very, very slowly. The peleton stepped up the pace and more riders got sent to the front to do the work. Less than 10 kilometers to the end and they were still off the front, though now they were very close to being reeled in. So with about 5 kilometers to go, and just a few seconds ahead of the peleton the Spanish rider Flecha sprinted ahead. He developed a lead on the break-away, which was then caught by the peleton, but his speed was holding off the close to 200 riders chasing behind him.

He worked up his break to 20 seconds, but then the pace caught up to him, and he was caught right at the 1 kilometer mark, just before the final sprint. The result of this was two fold, he didn't win the race (obviously) and the sprinter's teams didn't have time to reorganize and lead-out their guys, the sprint became a more tactical maneuver than usual, and with a hard kick up to the finish it was already going to be a technical finishing.

In the end Tom Boonen, a very successful, very young sprinter, had the legs to the line. A surprising O'Grady came in second, surprising because he was supposed to be wiped after his break-away yesterday.

Now something else that happened in the last kilometer there was a crash, a big crash. It actually happened right under the 1 kilometer mark, a rider in the bunch went down and took much of the peleton with him, and the rest couldn't pass by. McEwen fell as well, and as a result, the green jersey passed from him to O'Grady.

A rule was developed a for situations just like this. Because so many risks are taken in the last dash to the line, and since the road is fenced in and the riders can't get by, anyone who makes it to the 1 kilometer line with the bunch will get the same time as the finisher if there is a crash in that last kilometer. The race organizers ruled that this crash counted in that assessment, and so the time gaps between the riders disappeared and all the riders received the same time.

As a note, for some weird reason I previewed tomorrow's stage yesterday (stage 7), my brain hasn't been firing on all cylinders this week I think. Anyways, for the preview of tomorrow's stage, check yesterday. [Smile]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Thanks Hobbes, great recap!
 
Posted by Mintieman (Member # 4620) on :
 
Thanks for these recaps hobbbes, they're fantastic!
 
Posted by Willy Shmily Tiger (Member # 5647) on :
 
Summary: Stage 7

Besides a short bike ride and (obviously) watching the Tour, I’ve spent all day (and night) at a wedding, so I don’t really have the time or energy to do all of the grunt work like lists of standings and jerseys, I’m just giving descriptions. Sorry [Frown] .

Description:
We saw a very fast stage today, speeds averaged above 30 mph for much of the course, and as a result, the breaks at the beginning (the fast part) didn’t survive. A two man group broke off mid way into the race, they built up an advantage as the peleton slowed down, but when the wind hit them as the course turned it was wiped out fairly quickly.

Then a six man group made a jump off the front as the finishing line was approaching. They were caught without building up more than 30 seconds of a lead. Finally, with about 3 miles to go to the finish, another group made a huge effort and came off the front.

Normally you can’t do this because the sprinters teams are trying to set themselves up for the win and the pace is remarkably high. Well today the pace was high, but only T-Mobile (trying to get Zable the win) was doing work at the front, so the break went and that’s where the win came from by just a few seconds.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Willy Shmily Tiger (Member # 5647) on :
 
Notes about the stage:
This is a windy stage, up down and all around. There’s more climbing in here than is typical for a flat stage, but it’s still a flat stage, and certainly something that even the sprinters shouldn’t get dropped at.

What to Watch For:
Due to the winding road, this is an ideal stage for break-away. They’ll come fast and furious at the beginning, and they just might make it. The peleton can’t chase down as fast when the road is windy, and when the whole peleton breaks up during the climbs that litter the course.

If the breaks are caught, it’s a short finishing run in, and the more technical sprinters (the only ones left in the race really, with the departure of Petacchi and Cippolini) should be the ones to look for.

By the way, if you want to see stage leaders, go here and click around. [Smile]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 8

With Annie gone I guess it’s now up to me to post [Frown] . Anyways, today is a rest stage, which is why nothing got posted yesterday. Today I hope to post the summary, a look back at the first week, and, if I have time, a look forward (but don’t count on that one). Hope you’re all enjoying the Tour baby, yah! [Big Grin]

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:This was good, typical flat stage. A breakaway went, but was caught before the end (as all but one have been so far this tour). CSC took the opportunity of a change in wind direction (or rather change in road direction) to put the hammer down and break up the pack. But with no one CSC really cared about getting caught in the back-pack (pun intended) they let up the pressure and the second group managed to catch up.

Some very astute riding by the Tour favorites, never getting caught out, always up at the front, exactly what you have to do if you’re going to win the Tour, and they all seem to be doing it. This should be an exciting race.

It was a great finish for this stage. There was kick up before the line, and Paolo Bettini tried to make his move there. It would’ve worked too, except that McEwen, possibly the fastest, and certainly the canniest sprinter in the bunch read the move and managed to get on his tail; and you don’t win stages by dragging a sprinter like Robbie McEwen to the finishing line. So before the final turn to the finish (at just a few hundred meters) Bettini backed off and fell back to the pack, the thing is, this also killed McEwen’s chances, which isn’t going to make him happy.

Then a young rider bolted off the front just before the turn and took a big gap, seemingly an beatable one. He put 50 meters between himself and the group with 300 meters to go, and he was going to win. Except for Thor. Thor Hushovd broke for the line right in the middle of the turn and pushed hard and fast. Not only did he make up the 50 meters, but he had time to sit up and celebrate before the finishing line, an incredible sprint from the champion of Norway.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I would just like to say that I loathe the Al Trautwig announcer guy.

He reminds me of the funnily annoying announcer in Best in Show except he isn't funny. He keeps trying to make all of these stupid stupid analogies to other sports that fall flat and Bob Roll is left trying to cope.

All of the other commentators were originally cyclists. Phil, Paul and Bob pull trivia from obscure recesses of their brain at the drop of a hat. Al is clueless. At least if you know you are commentating the premier event for the sport read up on it first! Or if reading was to difficult he could have at least spent time watching the OLN archives from the the years Lance has been competeing!

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Al Trautwig is a general sports announcer, years ago he used to do hockey. OLN decided they needed someone "proffesional" for this years tour, since they expect so many people to be tunning in. Every once in a while I do feel uncomfortably restricted by my moral and ethical desicion not to use profanity.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
quote:
Yes, the Pyrenese mountains are the last week of the tour.
No, The tour enters the Pyranese this week. The Alps are not until the final week of the tour.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
So they got a HOCKEY announcer??! Well maybe they were trying to appeal to the Canadian audience (no offense BtL et. al.) It was an awful idea. Phil, Paul and Bob should be allowed to make the race exciting, much like baseball announcers do with all of their random trivia. Not have some guy bemoaning about how boring the race is. Of course Hockey people don't have to worry about short attention spans. The Tour is an Endurance Race. They would have been better getting a distance speed skater like Bonnie Blair!

The whole thing where they were doing some sort of weird stuff with the "Cutters" who I thought were some sort of Beverly Hillbillies in France before realizing they might mean the film cutters. I'm still unclear if they really were the actually film cutting crew. But was totally bizzare either way.

And "The Cyclysm" is officialy the worst name ever. They should have stuck with Tour de Lance VI. The cyclysm commercial with the guy in the sweater talking would be cool, except for the whole "cyclysm" punchline at the end.

Argh. They were doing so well last year. Why didn't they stick to what worked, and not try to gimmick it up?

AJ

[ July 12, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
The Bob Roll ads last year were the best. Ever.

He's not really a hockey announcer, he's a proffesional sports announcer, only most American sports are similar, as opposed to cycling, which is very little like football, so this guy can't just drop in and be a good commentator.

They cyclism isn't the worst name, it's the funniest name ever! I mean the hack is "cyclism"? It's a joke, and I enjoy those sweater guy's commercials as a result, and have repeatedly asked my Mom as she leaves for a walk in the middle of the Tour where she's going to be durring the cyclism. [Cool]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Rabbit I'm not sure if I'm the one that said that. I blame it on Al Trautwig for bad information if I did [Wink]

Obviously the time trial up "L'Alpe D'Huez" is in the Alps [Big Grin]

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
I'm always at work durring the cutters, but I assumed it was a refrence to the movie Breaking Away.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
Announcing hockey is actually a very tricky thing to do and I'm still mourning the retirement of Bob Cole and Harry Neil -- The voices of hockey when I was growing up. The new CBC guys are Ok, TSN is still dreadful and I still watch hockey on American channels on mute because I can't stand the idiots.

So, if he's a professional "sports" announcer, my guess is that he's loud and articulate (as in, doesn't mumble) and probably likes sports. But those are probably his only qualifications.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Really I think a baseball announcer would have been the best choice. The announcing styles are the most similar. Golf or Tennis could have worked well too.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
So worse yet he's a DROPOUT Hockey announcer. [Roll Eyes]

I'm sorry for insulting the noble sport of Hockey.

The only thing the dude has going for him is a "sports announcer" sounding voice with the correct overtones based on genetic accident.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Yah, he's probably good at what he does in general, but you can't just be dropped into the Tour, it takes a long time to learn what it's even about, much less be able to explain it and add detail for the public. Phil and Paul are extrodinarly good at what they do (talk constantly for 2.5 hours about cycling everyday) and Bob Roll is great (though not as good a commentator, he's still got a lot of insight since he's ridden the Tour recently for an announcer) but Al, well basically he sits there and asks question of Bob the entire time, and then dramatizies the whole thing past bearing.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I just sent a feedback e-mail to OLN. Hopefully they actually do read them like they say.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
This is why I wake up at 6:30 and go into work late, live coverage is just Phill and Paul. [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 12, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Brief recap of each stage, one sentence each.

Stage 1: 23 year old, with no long-term GC threat take the prologue 2 seconds ahead of Armstrong who decimates his big opponents.

Stage 2: Break-away early on gets pulled back in with time for a final sprint, taken out by one of the oldest sprinters in the race.

Stage 3: A break-away goes but doesn’t make it, the yellow moves on and Mayo is caught out.

Stage 4: USPS dominates in the team-time trial, with Hamilton’s Phonak putting in a good time, though Armstrong takes yellow.

Stage 5: A break-away goes and gets big time gains, ends up finishing 10 minutes (about) in front of the pack and the yellow moves on.

Stage 6: The break-aways are controlled and the finishing sprint is won by another youngster.

Stage 7: A break –away makes a move but is controlled by the peleton, a very small break makes the finish after leaving with under 5 miles to go.

Stage 8: A long break-away tries to make it but the teams are too organized, a brilliant finishing sprint is put in and McEwen snags green.

The big contenders:

Armstrong: he’s riding brilliantly so far. Ahead of all of his rivals, he’s put time gaps in, not to mention what have to some significant psychological blows in the prologue and the team time-trial. He’s also orchestrated every event perfectly, from the passing of the yellow jersey on without loosing a second to anyone that counts, to staying at the front and alert at all times. You can’t really tell this early on in the Tour, but from the little we’ve seen, Armstrong looks dominate.

Hamilton: He’s been doing well, staying with Ulrich in the prologue, and despite the mechanical and other problems in the team-time trial he’s made up plenty of time there. Riding strong and attentive off the front, I see no reason now we he wont be a huge threat as the Tour goes on.

Ulrich: The non-story that is thus, a story. For someone who is touted as the biggest threat to Armstrong this year he’s done a remarkably good job staying off of everyone’s radar screens. He’s ridden well, and been staying very attentive at the front. T-Mobile feels the two, pre-tour losses but they’re still strong. No one knows how well he’s doing right not, could be hiding something awful, could be hiding incredible strength; we’ll find out in the mountains.

Mayo: The dark-horse rider, the big threat to come out of the early season, a serious challenger. Mayo has been called all these things, and perhaps he would’ve been, but the team-time trial loss added onto the almost 4 minute time deficit in stage 3 means he’s pretty much out of the running. Don’t be surprised by some big attacks he’ll no doubt put in when we reach the mountains, but it’s almost impossible to make up this kind of time on a guy like Armstrong, not to mention Ulrich and Hamilton.

Heras: Nothing spectacular, but then we didn’t except anything from him in the flat stages. He’s shown us a very strong team, who rode well in the TTT, and kept him always in the front of the group, never getting caught out. We’ll see what he can do in the mountains.

And now I’m completely exhausted, so even if I manage to stay up a little more, I don’t have the concentration to preview the next stage, much less the next week. I’ll just say tomorrow is a mostly flat stage in terms of climbing, but rolling hills and curves through-out the course means that a break-away could have a chance.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 13, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Steve's now singing "Hockey School Dropout" for Troutwig. I'm sure you can imagine the tune.

AJ
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I heard last night that Lance was over 9 min behind the leader of the overall now. Is that true, and if it is how important is it?

I know a lot of the climbs are still to come, but I have no idea how much a 9 min lead really is at this point.

Kwea
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
9 minutes behind Ulrich would be a death blow to any major competitor. If Hamilton had a 9 minute lead, that would wrap up the tour. The 5 men in front of Armstrong however, can not climb. The major leaders will wipe out far more than 9 minutes on these guys in one mountain stage alone, they are of no worry to win the Tour.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
That is what I thought, but as I only follow the TdF sporadically I wasn't sure.

Oddly enough, this year I am better informed than ever before....

[Big Grin]

Kwea
 
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
 
Not to de-rail the thread, and I hope this hasn't been discussed already, but I have a few questions: isn't the USPS disbanding its cycling team in the next year or so? How will this effect Armstrong's career? Is there any word on another, very American company that's going to take up the torch?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Absolutley, a few months ago USPS announced that their desire to court international buisness has decreased, and thus they feel that renewing their contract with the team (which expires at the end of this year) wouldn't be a wise idea. Everyone got worried about what they'd do, and it did look like it might cost Armtstrong some night laying awake, but they found someone. Discovery Communications (parent corporation of Discovery Channel) has signed on as the title sponser of the team. They also wrote in a little contract that Lance would do some narrating for some of their shows. [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
 
Is Lance well-spoken? Does he have any talent for that sort of thing?

If there's one thing I can't stand, it's when athletes open their mouths.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Actually, he is pretty good at public speaking. Of course most of what I've heard is interviews, which are exclusivley about cycling, so I don't know if he's not good at other types of discussions, but there you are.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
He seems to be VERY well spoken, but i am judgeing by interviews.

I think he will do fine, and he has a decent speaking voice, so voice-overs should be cake for him.

Kwea
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well IMO today had the most exciting finish of the Tour so far. I was actually out of my chair hollering at the TV even though I knew the results had already been decided.

You see the breakaway which had lasted for most of the day only got caught by the sprinters in the peleton in the last 150meters. I so wanted the breakaway to hang strong and win.

As it was one of the Aussies took the day in a photo finish.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Ohh go ahead AJ, steal my thunder. [Grumble]

[Wink] [Big Grin] Actually, I've been slacking, I should've had this up a couple of hours after the finish, as it is, I'm just about to start. [Embarrassed]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 9

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:An amazing stage finish, very exciting and incredibly fast. Before we get into it, let’s clear up the fact that all the big contenders finished in the main bunch, as did the Yellow jersey, no change at the top of the classification.

A few kilometers into the stage, 2 men left the peleton to pursue a break-away. The windy stage and constant up and downs made for a good break stage, as did the fact that it is the shortest road stage in this year’s tour. For a while the peleton tried to keep the break away in check, and succeeded, keeping them in at under 2 minutes for a long while.

Then they let up on the pace making and the break-away pushed out to 10 minutes right at their peak. It was as if all of a sudden the sprinters realized that they were in serious trouble, many men from different teams got sent to the front to turn the pace way up. It would be a hard to ride, and possibly and impossible one, to get back to the break.

The team in yellow didn’t need to worry, the closest rider to yellow in the break was 20 minutes away, no threat, even with that big, 10 minute gap. So the sprinter’s teams did all of the work, and the pace jumped many mph.

Time began coming down, very quickly, but there was 10 minutes to make up. At first it was assumed they couldn’t do it, but the teams kept the pace incredibly high and people began to realize that it was possible for them to overtake the break.

Minutes ticked by and the end began to approach, it was going to be desperately close. Finally they reached 2 kilometers to go, 20 second gap. 1 kilometer to go and about 15 second gap. The break was going to make it, it was incredible.

Then the two men at the front made a mistake, they thought they had it one, they hesitated, just a fraction of second, they slowed down just a bit. For someone not accustomed to bike racing you might not notice it, but they did it, and in so doing, they lost the whole race. The peleton exploded at them, the sprinters jumped out of the pack and started their huge run at the line. One of the two breakers got caught 50 meters from the finishing line after being out for over 100 kilometers, the other tried to sprint but was overtaken and finished tenth. It’s no exaggeration to say that these two will re-live in constant pain those few seconds were they tried to play tactical instead of just winning the stage.

McEwen showed us he’s still the best in the bunch by betting out Thor and O’Grady by a couple of microns, nothing seems to be able to stop this Aussie as he becomes the first man in this year’s Tour to win more than one stage.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 10
Climbs:Notes about the stage:This is the Tour’s longest stage at 237 kilometers, almost 150 miles. It’s also the first stage in the mountains, incredibly hard, incredibly long, lots of people will drop tomorrow, and the peleton will split up. It’s always fun to go into the mountains! [Smile]
What to Watch For:
It’s a mountainous stage, but with 30 kilometers of downhill/flat to finish it off, any time gained in the stage will be wiped out, or at least seriously decremented, in that final descent. So don’t expect the big men of the tour to go out and try to make up time, it’s very long so they’d loose lots of energy, and probably not gain a whole lot.

Do watch for climbers trying to make breaks, this is their time to shine, and since many don’t have to worry about overall finish, they can afford to loose lots of energy on one stage.

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 14, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 10

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:The longest stage in this year’s Tour, as well as the first stage in the mountains, is now over. It was 237 kilometers long with 9 mountain passes including one category one climb. The stage was finished in just a hair over 6 hours, and it was a regular barn-burner!

Attacks rolled off the peleton constantly during the first few kilometers, one right after the other. The pace kept very high, and then finally what was to be deciding the break established its self. Richard Virenque and Axel Merckx (son of the infamous Eddie Merckx) broke off from another break they were in, 35 kilometers into the stage.

We know now what they decided, Merckx promised to let Virenque win all of the mountains passes (he’s after a record breaking 7th KotM Jersey) and Virenque was to let him win the stage.

It was no surprise to see the Frenchman go (Virenque), this has been his style in the previous tours, go on a very long break early on to collect all the mountain points possible on the stage, and then defend the big leading margin that gives him. Not to mention that on Bastille day, all those French riders wanted some of the lime-light.

Well everything was going to plan, the peleton didn’t mind letting him go, so long as he didn’t get too far ahead, and he and Merckx became the only two men out of the field. And then, on the category 1 climb, Virenque dropped Merckx and finished the rest of the stage by himself. Merckx claimed Virenque broke their promise and accelerated, Virenque claims that he was just going his pace and Merckx was unable to keep up. Whoever was right, there’s a lot of bad blood now.

But that doesn’t change the fact that Virenque had a magnificent stage today, a break of over 200 kilometers and he’s now leading by a good margin, the KotM jersey competition.

The rest of the big riders stayed in the main field, finishing together. One thing to note, Armstrong and Ulrich gained 7 seconds on Hamilton (and Mayo I think) because the pack split up just a bit a few meters before the end, and so the judges gave a different time to those finishing just outside. 7 seconds shouldn’t matter, but you never know, Hamilton wont be too happy about loosing any time at all.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 11
Climbs:Notes about the stage:As a respite from the today’s incredibly long, and mountainous stage this is a shorter one, much shorter. 164 kilometers make up the entirety of the stage, and the climbs are less numerous as well as a bit easier (no cat 1 climbs for instance). However, it’s still full of significant ups and downs, no easy course to control on.

What to Watch For:
Breaks, breaks, breaks. This stage is short, and has a down-hill finish, the big time contenders will know that attacking here would be dangerous, waste a lot of energy, and at best get them only minimal time gains. So you wont be seeing any of the big boys out in front of the peleton, but these concerns wont stop the riders trying to get a bit of glory and maybe a stage win.

The rolling hills should give everyone who wants one a chance to jump of the peleton and attack, and the controlling team (Voeckler’s squad) will have their work cut out for them tomorrow trying to keep the race together, or at least keeping Yellow.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 11

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:It was an incredibly fast stage, faster than was predicted, and since it there was a lot of downhill involved, it was predicted to be very fast. It followed what one would expect from a half mountain, half flat stage.

Breakaways abounded in the first part of the course (part of the cause of the incredible pace), and finally three men got away. Now the reason a break-away can succeed is that the people in it are willing to work together, good riders for the current stage, and not overall threats. If they were capable of talking the yellow jersey today (they weren’t, the closest was 20 minutes behind) then Voeckler’s team would’ve kept the pace up until they were caught, if they were GC threats than USPS, Phonak and T-Mobile would’ve hunted them down, but they weren’t. So we saw these three men break off and stay off with no one interested in getting them back.

They survived right to the line, where, a couple miles to go, David Mancoutie (the one Frenchman in the break, the other two were Spaniards) broke off from the triumvirate of today’s stage and made a go. Flecha had just tried to attack and failed, and neither of the other two could do anything like match David’s speed. So he powered onto the finish a minute and change ahead of them, who were in turn, about 6 minutes ahead of the group, which all finished in a bunch today.

A good stage for the GC contenders, no one was dropped, no one had to work extra hard to keep up. Tomorrow we go into the first of the really big, really important stages and it was nice for them to not have to worry quite as much today.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 12
Climbs:Notes about the stage:The first big mountain stage, the first one to end on the uphill, and probably the most grueling stage so far. It’s a long, flat (slightly uphill, but no serious climbing) run into the mountains where the race will meet up with the climbs themselves. Two very difficult passes, and ones that will provide greater viewer excitement.

What to Watch For:
This is where the GC contenders start coming out of the pack and making their move. This is where we get to see what these men are made of. I grantee that one of the overall contenders will attack tomorrow, and not only will be treated to a spectacle of great racing, we’ll finally get to see how all the big guys are doing, how in shape they are.

I would bet on Mayo attacking tomorrow, but it could be anyone (Heras is another likely). Most likely someone will try to go on the first climb, if not, the second climb will be sure to launch someone up there. I would guess Armstrong will wait a bit before he attacks and tries to get the big time gaps, but you never know. If he keeps the race under control on this stage there’s a good chance he’ll wind up in Yellow at the end, since he’s the highest placed contender. If not this stage, then he should certainly be in Yellow on the next or there’s a problem.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
I'm leaving at dawn for the Alpe de Huez. We will take the train from here to Basel and then cycle from there to Alpe de Huez. I will make a full report on my return.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
[Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

*Calms down*

Nope, that ain't gonna do it.

[Mad]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
To Scoop Hobbes
Lance made a move today and came in 2nd on the stage, and is now 2nd overall he put minutes between himself and the rest of the GC contenders!

AJ
(maybe now that loathesome Trautwig will stop talking about the "real" tour de france!)
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Yah, well if you scoop me, I'm going to keep reminding you that I sat home and watched the entire stage Live! And boy was it exciting! [Big Grin] *Goes off to change title*

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
Side Note--I caught a few minutes of a show on TechTV/G4Tv. It was a French programmer complaining. He had developed a cycling game, a real race sim. However, since this sport is so under-appreciated in English speaking countries, he doubts it will be a financial success.

It looked interesting, and I could follow some of the strategy thanks to this thread.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Nope I'm going to catch an earlier live reshowing today. cause I'm leaving work early because I've been working my butt off this week.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Not the same as watching it live. [Razz] Have fun and enjoy your well earned rest! [Big Grin]

<--*Super excited about the Tour*
*Even more than normal* [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well I predicted tomorrow would be the gc moves. Guess I was off by a stage. But stages are also about seizing opportunity which Lance did in the weather conditions.

Do you think the whole thing going on between Lance and Greg Lemond is basically sour grapes on Lemonds part?

AJ
 
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
Don't you ever start to feel like Lance winning the tour is like Titanic winning best Picture?

"I'm king of the world!"
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
nope I'm really surprised Hamilton cracked today.

AJ

Though it is possible he [Tyler] peaked too soon in his pre-Tour short stage races where he was riding very well. Lance did that last year and had to struggle more as a result. His [Lance's] dramatic crash last year was actually the blessing in disguise he needed to dig to his mental toughness rather than physical weakness. Tyler rode last year with a broken collar bone. I don't know what that did or didn't do to his mental toughness, the results weren't quite as obvious as the fire we suddenly saw in Lance's eye after Lance's crash.

AJ

[ July 16, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Yah, I was surprised too! He's typically a better climber than Ulrich, though it did make me feel better when Ulrich cracked too (Hamilton lost just under a minute Ulrich, and is now only a few seconds behind him in the GC). Everyone except Armstrong and Basso looked bad today.

Tomorrow will be a stage for GC moves as well, everyone's going to have to try something now, Armstrong has almost 4 minutes on Hamilton and Ulrich!

Ohh, and I was incredibly impressed with Voecler's preformance, what a champ!

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
what do you think of tyler's peak conditioning being slightly off?

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
I don't know, he looked pretty on form in the team time trial, and it's not all that unsual to have one bad stage in the mountains for a GC contedner, especially when it's one of the first stages. I think we'll see tomorrow if Hamilton and Ulrich just were off their game, or if they were really not up to it. [Dont Know]

I think more important than his early peaking may be the fact that due to those other races, he hasn't had a chance to train in the mountains like he should've.

If Ulrich and Hamilton don't get it back tommorow it's quite possible that the team leadership could pass off to another rider on the team, which would be a real blow to both of them. [Frown]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Everyone from Texas is going to win (apparently) [Laugh]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
 
Ugh. Why spoil such a great sport with slimy politicking?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 12

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:Before we began, I just want to say that I could sit you (the reader) down In front of the television for the entire last hour of this race, talk at you constantly, and still not hit on all the exciting things that happened. My summary would probably only take me a few minutes to read (I’m not sure exactly since I haven’t written it yet) so you wont get a full account from me.

This stage had a very interesting profile, it had a slight ramp up all the way to the first big climb, which was a category 1 climb, a monster. After this there was a descent and then another big climb and that was it. Very simply and straight forward, and like any mountain stage, pure hell to ride.

There was a break-away early on, a few men not overall threats to the GC nor really, that great of climbers. Their advantage never grew to that much, and when USPS started helping at the front of the peleton, they got wiped out before the first climb.

Now one thing you have to know about this climb is that the road on it is very narrow, not as much as the cobblestones, but narrow none the less. So all the favorites were worried about hitting the start of the climb late and not being in the front of the peleton. On a climb like this the peleton is guaranteed to split into many, many parts, and if you’re at the wrong end you can pretty much say good-bye to staying with the leaders.

So the teams were all jostling to get there first, and just like with the cobblestones, USPS won. The other big contenders were all there though, no one was going to get caught out. Well USPS started by setting a tremendous pace up the mountain, so much so that two of their strong climbers had to give up the ghost on the way up and let the team carry on.

Towards the top, one rider broke off the front and tried to make a full-blown break-away. He pushed his lead up to about 30 seconds by the top of the climb, which all the favorites (and the yellow jersey of Voeckler, who is having an absolutely fantastic Tour) arrived at together. Then there was the descent, it was narrow, it was windy, and it was raining. In other words, it was incredibly dangerous.

The leader out front is a good descender, and pushed hard, the rest of the pack were also going pretty fast down hill. Armstrong, who is considered an excellent bike handler, didn’t want to risk it and went slower than all the other big guys. At the bottom of the climb he was behind the main contenders. But his USPS team was there and they helped him catch back up.

Once again USPS set an incredibly hard pace, and the break was swallowed up. All of a sudden, on the climb that wasn’t supposed to be much (unless you asked me <insert predictive bragging here>) the favorites started to crack.

It began with Hamilton, he showed signs of weakness, and then fell off the back of the small group being lead by USPS. Then Ulrich, highly touted as Armstrong’s main competitor, fell off two. Only a few guys remained, technically they are GC threats, but not compared to the magnitude of Ulrich and Hamilton.

The last USPS man left was Azevedo, and he is putting in the hardest work he can. Armstrong wasn’t trying to attack, but his team set such a high tempo that now they’ve cracked all the big contenders, so they push on. Sastre attacks and Armstrong has to take up pace making as Azevedo cracks.

The Armstrong group splinters further, and Ulrich and Hamilton continue losing time. Finally Armstrong does a mini-attract to break everyone but Basso, and the two work catch Sastre out, and pass him.

Armstrong and Basso work all the way to the finish, were Basso leads them over the line. It was an attack that nobody, including Armstrong expected, but it’s one then put 2 and a half extra minutes on Ulrich, and 3 and a half on Hamilton (those two are now incredibly close in the GC, with Hamilton trailing by just a few seconds). An absolutely amazing stage, one for the ages.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Preview: Stage 13
Climbs:Notes about the stage:It’s the big one, 7 climbs including the end climb which is HC (impossible) and two category 1 climbs. Continual up and down, and not so much rolling hills as continuous mountains. Pure and unadulterated hell for all of the riders. It’s long, and it’s steep, and it’s going to be great fun for us!

What to Watch For:
This was billed as the big stage of attacks, decision, and revelation. With today’s stage now over and decided, I have to predict that this is more likely than ever. Except for Ivan Basso, everyone lost time, significant time, to Armstrong today, and they all know they’ll have to make it up. This was going to be the stage where everyone tried to attack and get that time back, they’ll be forced to now.

So I’m not predicting any particular attack, just more of a kind of ATTACK! going on, should be great fun! Who knows which climbs someone will try to launch themselves on, who will be up to the challenge and who will be to out of it. I’m looking forward to getting up at 6:00am tomorrow for one of the few times in my life. [Smile]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Hobbes, what do you mean the HC is impossible? What do they do, walk their bikes up it? [Wink]

[ July 17, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
By the way, I actually got up at 5:30... [Grumble]

HCs are, for the average mortal, almost impossible. Alp d'Huez, for instance, will probably take the winners this year about 30 minutes (a little more actually) to ascend. A good recreational cycler is more likely to come in at around 2 hours. It's 9 miles at about an 8% gradient on average.

My work is 9 miles away, it's a little bumpy but more downhill than uphill, and when I race it, I can get there in just under 30 minutes. So me racing on flat to downhill is almost the same as these guys going up 8%! [Eek!]

Great stage today, very, very similar to yesterday, and lots of people lost (Hamilton abondended, Mayo lost 37 minutes, Heras lost 27 minutes, Ulrich lost another 2:40, the only GC contender that was pretedicted correctly is Lance Armstrong).

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
 
"Hamilton abondended..."

I've been trying to parse this sentence fragment, assuming horrible spelling, and I still can't do it. What is "abondended"?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
OK, so I’m an awful speller but I think I’m going to blame part of that on the whole waking up way too early thing…

Here’s an actual version of what I posted.

quote:
By the way, I actually got up at 5:30... [Grumble]

HCs are, for the average mortal, almost impossible. Alp d'Huez, for instance, will probably take the winners this year about 30 minutes (a little more actually) to ascend. A good recreational cycler is more likely to come in at around 2 hours. It's 9 miles at about an 8% gradient on average.

My work is 9 miles away, it's a little bumpy but more downhill than uphill, and when I race it, I can get there in just under 30 minutes. So me racing on flat to downhill is almost the same as these guys going up 8%! [Eek!]

Great stage today, very, very similar to yesterday, and lots of people lost (Hamilton abandoned, Mayo lost 37 minutes, Heras lost 27 minutes, Ulrich lost another 2:40, the only GC contender that was predicted correctly is Lance Armstrong).
Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Summary: Stage 13

Jerseys:
Stage Top Ten:
General ClassificationDescription:OK, I’m exhausted and this was incredible stage so there’s no way I can do it justice, so I’m going to just try and hit the highlights.

A great day in the saddle, Armstrong proves to be the only big competitor who actually lived up to his pre-race hype, Ivan Basso also looked very strong. It was a shame to see Hamilton abandon and to see the struggle for Mayo to work so hard just to get the line 30 minutes behind.
Voeckler is now a hero for all of France, and for me as well. He doesn’t have the training, the stamina, the body, the tactics or the team to what he’s doing, he’s pulling out these rides on pure courage and will-power, and he fully deserves to be in yellow today. Hats off to this great man-child of France. [Hat]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
quote:
Mayo cracks completely, and tries to abandon, but his team and the spectators convince him to get back on his bike; he finishes over 30 minutes behind the leaders
Hobbes -- what do you mean by this exactly? What happened to Mayo?

FG
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Mayo fell way behind Armstrong in the middle of the stage, he was beaten and emotionaly drained. He got off his bike and tried to leave the race in the team care, but his team, his coach, and the spectators surronding him convinced him to get back on his bike and finish the Tour.

This is a rest day btw, so that's why there haven't been any updates by me yet.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
Sink-o de Mayo?
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
btw the reason why Hamilton abandoned was not because of fitness issues but because of an extremely painful lower back bruise he got when he crashed on one of the earlier stages.

I'm guessing the lower back bruise hurt more with every turn of the pedals than the broken collarbone did last year, simply due to the location of the injury. They showed some footage of him getting in the vehicle when he left the race and his shirt was off and the amount of gauze bandages on his back was quite disturbing.

AJ

(I belive it was this more than the death of the dog, though I am the first to acknowledge how badly a beloved pet's death hurts)

AJ

[ July 19, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
That's how it's pronounced, Iban Mayo, the hope of the Basque fans, and the dark horse to win the Tour, he's almost an hour behind.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
When you watched Hamilton going uphill you could see that he barely moved his back at all, as he said "try climbing a hill without using your lower back". It's a real shame to see him go, but I fully expect him to be a huge force in next year's tour.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Do team members have like, little microphones in their helmets to communicate strategy with each other as they ride?

FG
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Basically the only communication between the riders is the team manager constantly shouting at them. [Smile] In Mayo's case, most of his team was surronding him physically when he tried to leave.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
All of the condolences on Tylers site on the loss of Tugboat are amazing.

http://advancedwebhosts.org/website.cfm?page=94&WebSiteID=1522&mode=publish&startrow=91
AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yes they do have ear peices to listen to the team manager. (You can see it clearly in pictures of Jan Ulrich when he has his helmet off because he actually tapes his in.) Lance has one too. I don't know how much they can communicate the other way back to the team manager. There are also small signals and code words, that the team members use to each other, if they don't want the other teams to notice, much like signal calling in baseball though they are generally extremely subtle.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
AJ's right, most of the teams do their shouting in wireless form. [Smile] Voeckler actually took his earpiece out on one of the climbs because he couldn't stand one more minute of his team manger shouting in his ear.

I don't think there are any ways to communicate with the team manager electronically because whenever the riders want to talk to the manager (most of the time around 30 kilometers out a rider in a break-away will do this) they actually drop back to the team car to have a chat. Even if they do have equipment though mostly the riders are too exhausted to try and talk much.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
the ear peices are valuable in giving information on time gaps etc and who is in the breakaway etc though.

And on the time trials when the team car follows every individual rider (though I'm not sure how they are going to do this on L'Alpe d'Hues) what cracks me up is there is always at least one manager leaning out of the car with a bullhorn yelling "Venga, venga, venga!" at the rider slaving away.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
My Dad said that at the Prologue most of the team mangers were pretty reserved through the whole thing, except for the Gerolsteiner manager who shouted at the top of his lungs literally constantly at each rider the whole time. You could see him doing this on stage 13 as well to the one Gerolsteiner who came in third. [Laugh]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Hamiltons's journal entry, and explenation of why he dropped out. [Frown]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Ulrichs attacking over 50 kilometers from the fnish. He had announced that he turned race leadership over to Kloden but now... it's so exciting! It's the Tour Baby!

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Reading the live reports aparently Kloden had a pretty bad crash at the beginning of this stage. This could have turned the leadership back to Jan.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
A wonderfuly exciting and fun stage, one which will be written up by at some point even though I'm a complete slacker. Tomorrow's time trial up 9 miles of 7.9% is going to be ever so exciting! [Big Grin]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
From here
quote:
Armstrong earned bonus seconds for winning the stage, extending his lead on second-place Basso to 1 minute, 25 seconds. If he can hold that advantage for two more days in the Alps and in a time trial on Saturday, Armstrong will pedal into the history books when the three-week cycling marathon ends on the crowd-packed Champs-Elysees in Paris on Sunday.

Armstrong said his team manager, Johan Bruyneel, was yelling into his radio-linked earpiece that he had to beat Basso.

"Johan was screaming in my ear that I had to win because of the time bonuses," Armstrong said. "Every second counts."

Speaking of earpieces!

AJ

[ July 20, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 
And Robin Williams was riding in Armstrong's support car today. [ROFL] Can you imagine the possibilities of that? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
It's too bad Mayo and Piil dropped out of the race. Another major contender gone. (Iban Mayo) [Frown]
 
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
So didja watch Hobbes draftin' on Armstrong?
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Robin Williams actually was great in the post race interview today.

And I have to hand it to Trautwig. He was right. For once. He predicted Armstrong and Basso would go one-two at the finish and Bob Roll scoffed.

Ultimately this stage was exremely satisfying. A fine wine to watch after a hard day at work.

AJ
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Know how I said I would summarize it? Well I will, but due to complete lack of sleep it'll be short.

A breakaway made it out early, no one in it was a threat to the GC to it was let go. However, two climbers put the hammer down and split the break into many pieces, while launching themselves forward. Still this was not a big issue, those climbers weren't threats either. But then, Jan Ulrichc launched off in front of Armstrong and started to put in big time. USPS took control of the pace and whipped it up at the front. A CSC rider who had been in the break in front was brough back, and CSC (Ivan Basso's team) kept the pace high. Ulrih eventually got caught after a long, tiring break-away, still with a good way to go to the finish. The last of the orginal break was reeled in and Armstrong, Basso, and several other riders were now leading the stage.

Azevedo and CSC kept the pace high and the race together. The group up front began to break up a bit as a couple riders really brought the tempo to bear, but the big rider (Ulrich included) stayed with them. Armstrong was feeling great (he says) and when the end came, he handidly won the sprint finish to the end with Basso coming second. Which means that between the 20 second first place bonus and the 12 second second place bonus Armstrong gained another 8 seconds on Basso heading into tomorrow's time-trial up the mountain.

One thing of interest, with an expected attendtance of over 1 million people tomorrow (one of which will be our Rabbit [Smile] ) the estimation is that for every 1 meter of road, there will be 30 people. Wow. [Eek!]

[EDIT: The current title refers to what Armstrong told his team director durring the race, he felt strong enough to garuntee a sprint win]

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 21, 2004, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
That video is wayyyyy too cute.

BTW, I went riding for the first time in months today. I think I got passed by a man walking backwards and 2 beached whales.....

Wait, one of those whales was me....nevermind....

Kwea

[ July 21, 2004, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
 
quote:
Robin Williams actually was great in the post race interview today.
Yeah, I saw that. Then again, IMO, Robin Williams is always great.
 
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
loved that video, aspectre.

FG
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
btw "Ace" in the "Tell Ace to keep it together and I'll win the stage" comment to Johan Bruniel refered to Jose Azevedo, Lance's teammate who led him out until near the end.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Lance wins the time trial! The only man under 40 minutes. And Ullrich clambered himself back into 4th place with the second fastest time.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
To make it easier on Hobbes here are today's standings.

The Top 10 In Stage 16
The Top 10 Overall After Stage 16
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Thanks to AJ for posting the current standings. [Smile]

Jerseys:
Description:
A time trial can often be boring to watch, there’s almost no tactics involved with the ride once the riders actually start off on the course. All you can see is one guy cycling, and every once in a while, passing someone who started in front of him. So if the results of the time trial don’t matter, you may find yourself losing interest quickly. Today, the results did matter, but the description of the stage can pretty much be summed up in the results, so I’m going to give a … more personal description. [Smile] (A semi-serious semi-parody kind of thing I guess…)
I’ve been waking up at 6:30 am every day now since July 3rd (including off days) and earlier on a few of the longer stages. Today’s coverage started a half hour earlier than normal, and I was utterly exhausted when I woke up. Normally that feeling disappears after a few minutes, but it just got worse for me.

I managed to keep my eyes open through the end of the pre-race show and into the summation of what had happened in the last few days, but just barely. I began curling up on the couch, and during commercials I would shut my eyes.

As the actual coverage began I was struggling. I saw one of the low-ranked guys come in with an astonishing time, but my brain was barley plodding along and hardly recognized it. Then there was a lot of riders who did not matter much in the overall classification, nor where they finishing high on the leader board, even at this early stage.

My eyes were now shutting during live coverage and I was considering taking a few minutes of sleep! [Eek!] I had to snap out of it, about 50 minutes into the coverage, still with none of the riders breaking out onto the road I made myself some breakfast (two pieces of cinnamon-raisin toast [Smile] ) and sat down with a tall glass of chilled, skim milk. Mmm, mmm.

With my metabolism now beginning to start up I was feeling more awake and alert. The riders starting off now were turning into climbers, and fast times began to be put in. Very fast times. The race was heating up and the favorites were still yet to take their place on the starting line.

Walking back and forth from the Television to my computer during commercial breaks to check on arrival times was helping and I could feel my form setting in. It was essential that I began to get my blood flowing and possibly break through one of the first walls before the big contenders started. I didn’t want to miss a minute of it!

Ulrich was the first big man to go, and I was getting revved up. His use of aero bars on the mountain time trial was not as surprising as how much climbing he seemed to be doing on them. The aero bars reduce your wind drag but they also make it harder to bring in air to your lungs, and you could see him suffering. He was using a huge gear but he was turning it over and absolutely blistering the mountain side.

I could feel my concentration coming back as Kloden launched his start. Then went Basso, and you could see Armstrong waiting behind him. I was ready to go, my mind was focused and my body was loose and awake. Should I need to sprint forward to watch the Television from centimeters away I was ready!

Armstrong’s off! The first kilometer or so of the course is semi-flat (1.5% gradient) and none of the big contenders except Ulrich took that hard. The big times were to be gained on the mountain. The first time check was right at the end of the flat section, and Ulrich was by far the best placed of the favorites there, but the climb was starting.

I was in good form, moving my position all over as was appropriate for the course. Whenever a fan got too close to the riders, or it looked like one was in undue suffering I was leaning forward out of my seat, but I was taking rest breaks when I needed leaning back. The stage was looking good.

There was only one time check before the finish (besides the very first one right on the flat) and that was 9 kilometers into the race. Ulrich hit first, and he hit it hard, beating out the next closest to go through there by almost a minute. His odd choice of bike, strange climbing style, and massive gear seemed to be paying off. Could anyone else match it? That’s what I though as my head inched ever closer to the glowing screen.

Kloden came through the check behind Ulrich, but close to him, he was looking to be in great form, just like me. Then comes Basso, he’s not known for being a time-trialest, and it was beginning to show. He came in behind both of those riders, but more important, here comes Armstrong!

I was completely out of my seat now, there’s Armstrong not too far Ivan Basso who started 2 minutes in front of him at the beginning. All sleep is erased from my mind which is now filled with “what’s the time check?” Armstrong came through and blew Ulrich out of the water, finishing many seconds ahead of him at the check with 6 kilometers of climbing left to go.

I’m ecstatic, he’s riding one of the greatest time trials ever, and at 12 kilometers in, he passed Basso. My face, once tired and drawn is a mask of delight, and Armstrong is still going strong.

By the end he had put a whopping 1 minute and 1 second on Ulrich who finished second to him. This is huge! Armstrong won the entire Tour last year by that exact margin, and now he’s done all of that in one time trial.

I’m feeling good and enjoying the aftermath of this decisive victory as I listen to the interview with Lance and watch the podium presentation. It was a good day, for Lance and me both.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
A little side human interest story about the man who talked the Tour into using L'Alpe D'Huez.
http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/news/articles/6365.0.html
AJ
 
Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
 
I saw that "6th now in sight" in the title and thought, but he was 1st in GC just yesterday! Of course you may have just jinxed him by saying that and if he loses, Hobbes, I'm blaming it all on YOU!
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Story of my life. [Grumble] [Wink]

This article has something about how negative the (mostly German) fans were. I'm very surprised, as I was when I saw it live, normally the Tour fans are incredibly supportive of everyone.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
here's a great article explaining Tyler's injury. With pictures which would be juicy to gaze upon if it weren't for the injuries they display...

http://www.roadcycling.com/news/article725.shtml
 
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
Hobbes, I have 2 questions for you.

1. Who's going to come in second, assuming Lance wins? I'm guessing Jan

2. If Lance wins #6 will he go for 7 in a row? When do you think Lance willl retire?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
1. I don't know. Obviously Ivan Basso is in there right now, but of course that proves nothing. He's not a very good time-trialest, and we have a whopper of one coming up. Kloden isn't the best in the world, but he's good, Ulrich very well might be the best in the world, if not, he's probably second to Lance Armstrong in that discipline. I think any of those three can finish second, it depends on if any of them try to make a move in the mountains (the problem is, USPS would cover it instantly, and the copmetitors would just grab onto the wheel of the USPS riders) and most importnatly, how everyone does in the time trial. I'm convinced that Ulrich is physically cpabale of pulling back the time on basso in that time trial, but it will be very tough. The fact that he's never before finished anything lower than second has to be a motivating factor for him

So like I said, I don't know, any of the top 4 right now could be two.

2. Once gain, don't know. The one thing Lance wants to avoid is coming back and finishing 23rd or something, he's going to want to go out on top of his game. The way he's looking this year he may well feel he can win gain in the Tour and come back, but he will not show up if he doesn't think he can get the win. That's just the way Armstrong is. We'll be hearing more about it as the end of the race approaches, but I doubt he'll make his final desicion then. Most likely he'l dissepear for a few months, as most cylcists do after the Tour, then when he start gearing up again he'll see how he feels and how well he reacts and then tell the world if he'll be going for lucky number 7.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
From what I've heard, he's definitely going to ride next year, for the Discovery team whether or not he rides Le Tour. I could see him doing a lot more US Tour of Georgia type things. OR attempting a win at the Vuelta or the Giro instead. And I believe we will see him at the olympics this year since that one of the few things he has never gotten is an olympic gold.

AJ
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
(double checking to see if he's on the olympic team and if not who is)
Guess he isn't going
http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=6634
AJ

[ July 21, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Nope, he's not on the olympic team, he declined the invitation (though I've heard rumor that he might reconsider after the Tour).

Absaoltuley, he's comitted to the team even if he doesn't race the Tour next year. he refuses to show up to race he doesn't think he can win though, so I've heard rumbling about trying to take the Giro.

[EDIT: Levi took his place, Bobby Julrich and Hamilton are on it, though it remains to be seen if Hamilton will be able to preform by then]

Hobbes [Smile]

[ July 21, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Hobbes ]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Today Postal hit hard. This was the worst day for the riders (on paper) and Postal was out front the whole way.

A break started it off, gaining 5 to 7 minutes on the peleton. Surprisingly two Frenchman attacked the break and bridged the gap to it. The break went strong, but with the constant pressure from Postal the time began to come down. One climb away from the final clim of the day and much of the peleton had broken off, as well as most of the breakaway falling back and being ground away by Postal.

As the final climb started there were three men in front by just a few minutes. Floyd Landis began putting in a very high tempo rider and all but 5 guys (including him) were dropped, including passing up everyman in the break. Postal lead it to the top, with only a few breaks trying and failing to get off the front. T-Mobile stayed in the wings, the pace too high to try and put in time gains.

Amrstrong told Floyd, who had put in perhaps the best stage of his life, to take the win. Floyd rocket downhill, but Ulrich deicded he wanted to try for the time bonuses (Floyd is many tens of minutes behind in the GC, so that wasn't the issue) and ended up catching him before the end. All 5 men got back together for the run in to the finish. Floyd tried to attack again, but was immeaditly pulled back by Ulrich. Then Kloden went and gained almost 100 meters with under 1 kilometer to go. he had won the stage. Except Postal was mad that Floyd wassn't allowed the win he so richley deserved. So Landis kicked up the pace, giving it his all. Then, with only a couple hundred meters to go Armstrong exploded off of the group and passed Kloden right on the line, taking hiss third stage win this Tour. The rest finished behind him with no big gaps. A fascinating stage to watch. [Cool]

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
Going back to the when will Armstrong retire question. Anytime would be acceptable. winning 5 times in a row is never going to happen again, so hes already made his mark. He could go for more if he really wanted, but it wouldn't matter.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
He obviously love it, so it might not be all about the record though.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
LMAO http://live.cyclingnews.com/

I like Cycling News' live internet reports much better than the plain dry oln live updates. Today's reads like a soap opera.

There is a pending libel lawsuit between Fillipo Simeoni and Lance Armstrong. Simeoni claims that Lance libeled him by calling him a liar. Anyway Lance and he broke away from the peleton jumped across to the breakaway having words the entire time, and then dropped back to the peleton. Now everyone is talking to everyone else about who said what when.

These anouncers also have enjoyable puns.
quote:
16:34 CEST
We apologise again for the lack of animal references in today's ungulating stage. There's too many trees to get enough cows near the parcours. The organisers clearly need to adress this next year.


 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Hobbes, What are you doing???

Lance won!

Or isn't that a good enough reason to post now.... [Wink]

Go Lance Armstrong...that will teach the french to spit on you!

Kwea
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
Hobbes is a little out of computer range this weekend.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Hobbes when you get a chance I want a 200 word essay on Lance Armstron, El Patron, with regards to Ernesto Simeoni. The soap opera has been cracking me up.

[Big Grin] [Wink] [Razz] [Cool]

AJ
 
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
 
So how many of you guys have purchased any of the liveSTRONG stuff? I myself, wear the wristband all the time. I also have a yellow shirt and a back pack. It makes me feel a lot better aopbut myself seeing as how i haven't gotten to volunteer as much as I'd have liked to recently.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I don't care...enough slacking... [Taunt] [Evil]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Heras:
Heras entered into the tour with a strong team, not as strong as USPS, T-Mobile or Phonak, but it was strong enough to make sure Heras was properly protected, and kept his time safe in the flat stages.

Heras was under noted a bit early in the Tour, the climbing threat was much more notably personified through Mayo, and Heras was mostly forgotten. However, he managed to limit his losses on the flat, which Mayo didn’t, losing big time over one flat stage due to a crash.

When the Tour hit the Pyrenees it was Heras’s time to shine… only he didn’t. Perhaps it was the pressure of being leader for the first time, perhaps it was crashes, perhaps he just wasn’t ready. Whatever it was, Heras couldn’t keep up at the front, and lost enough time in two stages to put him out of the running. Then, on the same stage Mayo almost a banded, Heras lost just under 30 minutes and he was clearly out of the race. Next year perhaps…

Mayo
Mayo had a slight disadvantage entering the Tour. His team, because of it’s national sponsorship, could only take riders that lived in a specific region (the Basque region), which produced the best climbers in the world but wasn’t much on guys for the flat. Then one of his team was disqualified before the race started, and for some unfathomable reason, they opted not to replace him (which they could have done) and raced one rider short.

He spent the first week of the Tour trying to limit his losses on the flat, and failing. A crash right before the Tour went over the cobblestones meant the end for him. The strategy for riding the cobblestones is to go very, very fast, and USPS kept that up even after the cobblestones. Mayo’s team made a valiant effort to keep in contact with the leading group that split on the “pave”, but they just weren’t strong enough. In the team-time trial they rode strong, but they couldn’t compare with the big teams like USPS and Phonak.

The coffin was close, but the nails were shot in when Mayo couldn’t keep up in the mountains, supposedly his specialty. Later in the Tour, completely mentally crushed, and perhaps physically unprepared as he had peaked too early in the season, Mayo first tried to abandon, and then did on a coming stage. Next year perhaps…

Tyler Hamilton
Last year Hamilton came into the Tour for the first time as a leader. He proved his will to win, and his overall great physical shape by taking fourth after receiving a double fracture to the collarbone in stage one. This year looked good for him, he had sole command of his Phonak team, which was very strong, and he seemed on good condition.

I personally picked him as Lance’s biggest contender, and he might have been if it weren’t for Hamilton’s biggest weakness. He rides much stiffer than most riders, and as a result, he falls. A lot.

Hamilton was riding a very good race, one second behind Ulrich in the prologue, a good time for anyone. Then his team put in an amazing performance, after falls and an unbelievable number of flat tires they rolled across the finishing line with only five guys and the second fastest time in the team time trial. Hamilton was clearly here to stay and going to be a threat in the Tour. An accident he had been involved in was mostly overlooked.

Until we hit the mountains that is. The problem is that while Hamilton is perhaps the best at dealing with pain as anyone can remember, his injury had nothing to do with pain. He had sever bruising, and some of it was in his “core”, the muscles in his lower back. He could fight through the pain with no problem (note: he could, I’d probably be on the ground crying [Smile] ) but that didn’t matter. Much of a cyclist’s energy gets transferred through the core, and Hamilton’s was unusable. He was physically incapable of forcing himself to go faster, despite his determination.

The fact that he only lost a few minutes on the first big mountain day is amazing. The next day was more in the realms of reality, when he found that he couldn’t keep up on the mountains even though his hear rate was a mere 120 bpm, he simply couldn’t get his body to work harder. Sadly, Hamilton had to drop out, though his waving to every team car as went out was a true sign of class, something Hamilton has in spades. Next year perhaps…

Andreas Kloden
This was a man no one had picked as anything. The national champion of Germany was there to help Ulrich. Period. The thought of him having a Tour in his own right was simply not considered, but he was a good climber and a decent time trialest.

T-Mobile, even after it’s pre-race losses, was a strong team. Kloden kept his time losses down to a minimum early in the Tour, and racing for such a strong team helped. Then the Tour went to the mountains, and all of a sudden Ulrich wasn’t keeping up but Kloden was. Though he didn’t manage to stay with Armstrong in the climbs, he stayed ahead of almost everyone else. As a result he began sharing the team leadership with Ulrich, and stayed strong in the mountains. He never managed his own break-away, in fact, T-Mobile didn’t manage a single stage wine. But Kloden did stay strong though the whole Tour, and his very impressive time trialing performance on Stage 19 was good enough to shot him past Basso into second place. A very fine finish for this man no one had talked about. Next year perhaps…

Ivan Basso
Ivan Basso was one of the outside favorites. A man everyone knew could win it, but who was not expected to. He could climb very well, but he was young and didn’t have proper stamina, his time-trialing was his biggest weakness, and it was assumed he just couldn’t challenge on his one and only threat. Well of course they were partially right, since Basso didn’t win, but he sure did surprise a lot of people all the same.

Basso races for a very strong team in CSC, whose manager is perhaps the smarted man in the convoy. CSC had a podium finish and man in just about every break that went from Belgium to Paris, as well as having three big challengers. One of whom, obviously was Basso.

His team rode well in the team-time trial, and his prologue, well nothing spectacular, didn’t hurt him too much. He went into the first mountain stage with a one minute, 30 second difference between himself and Armstrong, and he was the only man this year who gained time on Armstrong in the mountains (not counting stage 10). He was the only one who managed to keep up with the Texan, and proved to be a rising star in the sport of cycling.

Every mountain stage Basso worked hard and stayed on Armstrong’s wheel all the way to the finish (though Armstrong routinely, and almost effortlessly sprinted past for all but the very first stage win). However his weakness did come back to haunt him. In the time trial up the Alpe d’Heuz Basso lost big time to Armstrong, and then even more in the next time trial. Enough time not just to put him (and everyone else) out of contention for Yellow, but to just drop him behind the German Andres Kloden. But a third place finish for this young Italian is something he’ll proud of, and something that will keep him working for yellow. Next year perhaps…

Jan Ulrich
Ulrich has always been touted as Armstrong’s main competitor, his weakness is the mountains, and him. He doesn’t keep in good enough shape during the winter, or train hard enough coming into the Tour. But he’s always strong, always fast, and he’s never finished the Tour anything lower than second coming into this year. A very impressive bike rider.

The flat stages should Ulrich losing small times to Armstrong, and even Hamilton both in the prologue and the team time trial. But they were small, small enough no one thought much about them, these time gains could be made up the mountains, which while they weren’t Ulrich’s forte, he could stage a break-away to match anyone else. So as we headed into the mountains, we waited. But Ulrich did not come through as the Germans wished. He fell behind Armstrong, unable to keep his wheel in both of the two Pyrenean stages. He didn’t loose huge time, but enough to put him pretty far out of contention unless he could put in a big break and beat Armstrong in the time trials. He tried the first and failed, and tried the second one twice, failing both times. His mountain climbing team-mate bested him the overall, and though Ulrich became strong later in the Tour, he was never strong enough to beat Lance, just strong enough to hold on. 4th place would be a great ride for most men, but Ulrich will walk away from this year disappointed. Next year perhaps…

Lance Armstrong
This was a domination of the Tour as was a sight to see. Armstrong put in a very big time-trial performance on the prologue, gaining time on his rivals that they would never gain back. His team was always there, whenever it was desirable to be in the front of the peleton (like over the narrow pave) they always were. They kept the tempo high, and blew the competition into the water and possibly, deep into the ocean floor in the team time trial. Then comes the mountains and USPS put son another show for us. They hit the mountains (leading of course) and start a blistering pace on. Team-members fall off as is necessary and new ones come to take their place. Working perfectly, and being perfectly times. The last team-mate peels off and by this time it’s just Lance and a few other guys, almost everyone else has fallen off the back. Lance keeps the pace up for a few kilometers to the top, and then most of the time, sprinted for the stage win. Each mountain stage played out this way, and each time it was a clear demonstration of USPS’s unrivaled power, and Armstrong’s consistency as well as strength in the mountains.

The first time trial up Alpe d’Huez came and Armstrong pounded his rivals into submission, finishing over a minute ahead of the second place Ulrich. In the second time-trial, there he is again, one minute and one second ahead of Ulrich. Armstrong rode a brilliant Tour, and was incredibly strong the whole way through. The team rode perfectly, everything happened according to place, which any commander will to tell you, is basically impossible. This was going to be a trying year, he had more competitors than ever before, and six was a curse no one before had been able to break. Instead he stamped down his authority over the race like someone talked about his mother. His training and dedication have paid off. This year, Armstrong became the first person in history to win 6 Tours.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Simeoni is not a beloved rider in the peleton. He has accused a prominent doctor of helping many riders “dope” (take illegal, performance enhancing drugs), and done various other things which are not widely covered, but all the riders seem to hate him for anyways. When he came out in accusation of this Doctor, Armstrong responded a short time later, since this doctor was once, Armstrong’s doctor. Lance called Simeoni a “liar” and said he had no evidence. Simeoni then filled a suit against Armstrong for slander, which is still going on.

On stage 18 a six man break developed early on, it looked strong and there were no big contenders. It was let go, and gained close to a minute on the peleton, and then Simeoni decided to try and bridge the gap to join it.

Sometimes the title of “patron” or “the boss of the peleton” is merely honorary for the man in yellow, but not today, not for Armstrong. None of the riders wanted Simeoni getting a break, and especially Armstrong, so he jumped on his tail and they rode to the break. Armstrong played it absolutely right, he helped out the break, which started gaining time on the peleton. But the break knew they were doomed. So many of the contender’s teams couldn’t let Armstrong develop this gap, they would chase him down.

So they asked Armstrong to leave, they told him that they couldn’t succeed if he was with them. He said fine, he’d leave, but only if Simeoni left too. So they told Simeoni to leave, which he did, and Armstrong stayed true to his word, sat up, and waited for the peleton.

When they re-integrated Armstrong got some smiles and friendly words, Simeoni got shunted and pushed to the back of the pack. I’m not entirely sure what it is that Simeoni has done, but the peleton’s hatred for him seems pretty convincing, he’s reportedly “bad for cycling”, trying to “bring it down from the inside”.

Hobbes [Smile]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
[Hail] Hobbes

Simeoni tried to break away during the last stage into Paris, and was promptly returned to the peleton with vengance by the Blue (and yellow) Train bearing down rapidly. It was also highly amusing.

AJ
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
My stars. That's a pretty convincing shunning. Is everyone signed up for therapy the day after the race is over?
 
Posted by Cowboy Poet (Member # 6724) on :
 
hmmmm...... I can't say as I know the whole story, but, and don't get me wrong, I enjoy punking the Frenchies at their own event and the fact that a Texas boy is doing it makers it sweeter. BUT..... Lance kicked cancer's ass, tkes alot of grief from his peers (Texan beating up on the Frenchies and all) But, and correct me if I am wrong, his wife stood by him when he was down, was by his side when cancer had him on the ropes, "in sickness and in health" ---> so he starts to become famous, ditches the wife in favor of the vapid, dimwitted celebrity chick (Sheryl Crow) and all anyone can say to that is "Isn't it great he found his soul mate? (what a news piece actually said that I saw) It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Nope that's not what actually happened with the wife. She left him "in health", though they met while he was sick. I don't think they married until after he was in remission.

I have a witness who will state on the record that as early as 1998 I disliked Lance's (now-ex) wife. The reason why I disliked her way back then was her own online journaling, which was rather vapid, which included her lollygagging around Europe while her husband was out suffering on the road day in and day out, trying to make history. And this was during his first Tour win!

Yes she's a hot blonde. But, she had no idea of the rigors a competitive athlete goes through in prep, and really didn't attempt to try all that hard either. It ticked me off was when she abandoned him several times during the first tour to run around sightseeing in other European countries, because she didn't want to be stuck there because it was boring, and complained about his training schedules. This in contrast to Greg Lemonds wife who was at the end of every stage sweating out every mile with him.

While I'm not a huge fan of hers, though I don't dislike her either, Sheryl Crow was at the end of more stages per Tour (though still not all) to see Lance than the ex-wife ever was. I also think Sheryl probably understands the single minded pursuit of a dream better than the ex-wife does. The consuming nature of art is in a way similar to the consuming nature of athletics.

On the whole though the divorce has been amicable. He still loves his kids and wants to be a good father. I don't think he will be any less of a father than a military father whose employment also takes them away from home for long stretches of time.

AJ

[ July 26, 2004, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
And if you think Sheryl Crow is vapid and dimwitted you've never listened to her lyrics, which are pretty intelligent.

AJ

My arguments are mostly with the melodies, but that is because I like consonance. The dissonance does fit her music however.

And she is an extremely astute businesswoman as co-owner of Lillith Fair.

[ July 26, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by Cowboy Poet (Member # 6724) on :
 
Okay, well, If I was wrong, I was corrected. I did not have the complete story, but as a disinterested observer, it looked fishy. I do not particularly care for Sheryl Crow because I saw an interview with her and Dan Rather in which she did not come off sounding remotely like a rocket surgeon. In a failed attempt to play devil's advocate, I revealed that when you say "until death do us part" really means something. So I suppose I am a foolish idealist in that regard.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
yes it would be nice for it to mean something and it does to more people than we realize. however as far as celebs go, it really wasn't that messy a divorce.

AJ
 
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
"Until love tears us apart" seems more appropriate... But don't mind me, I just had a Paul Young flashback.
 


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