I wonder what you people think about that. There are different opinions on this, so lets hear your thoughts.
I admit, it is also a personal issue. In 2 months I find myself in the intercultural marriage. Am very excited about that, can’t wait to marry lissande I’ve always thought that such a marriage is wonderful. Each person brings his/her unique cultural background into marriage and then you have a chance to pick what works for you from both cultures. And I think that’s exciting. What more – this is, in my opinion, a rather big advantage for children. They are raised speaking at least 2 languages, they are exposed to different cultures, customs (like we celebrate name day - just another opportunity to get presents), celebrating different holidays (or celebrating some twice – Christmas on the 24th and 25th), kids have 2 citizenships (in our case US and EU) etc. Yes, I think that intercultural relationships are blessing, in general.
So let us hear concurring or dissenting opinions.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
All for it.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I think it is good.
I also think it involves a lot of compromise. Both parties have to be willing to give-and-take a lot and never think of their culture as being "right" and the other as "wrong." So a mutual respect for the culture of the mate is essential to making it work, because there will be differences.
Farmgirl
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Well, considering I'll be having an interfaith marriage in a year or so (no date yet, don't ask! ), I think there are definite advantages/challenges, but I don't think, everything considered, that the challenges outweigh the advantages.
-Bok
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I only made my point because after this past year's experience with our European exchange student. He was much different than the first one we had.
He would often take opportunity to look down his nose at something American, or say something like "that's not how WE do it in Germany" with a kind of tone that implied they were better.
Understand that a fellow American here can bash our policy and I probably won't blink an eye -- yet someone from another country comes over and bashes us with the same words, and we get all offended.
So I think in a multi-cultural relationship, you just have to watch how you say things so it isn't taken as judgmental against the other culture. It would be much like saying "great pie, sweetie -- but not quite as good as my mom used to make.." It would bristle a few hairs...
Farmgirl
Posted by Tzadik (Member # 5825) on :
Farmgirl,
I agree, there are stupid people everywhere. I have friends who look down on nearly everything just because its American. On the other side, you have no idea how many times I met Americans in Europe who talk down things we have here. Sometimes I “get over” that, most of the time however I get rather irritated and tell them something (to both, Europeans and Americans).
Agree, you have to work much harder in intercultural marriage, but it’s worth it. There can be conflicts just because English isn’t my native language and I can’t quite grasp some of the fine nuances of the language. But it’s been a blessing for us and sure enough is promising to be a blessing in the future!
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
Marraiges should be between two individuals, not two cultures. Whatever the two involved decide is cool by me. Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
When my wifes grandparents married, she was from Northern Italy, he was from South/Sicilly. The bitter feelings and arguments about that marriage still erupt during family gatherings.
When my wifes mother married her father, she was Catholic, he was Protestant, and of mixed German/English parentage. There was some complaints and talk of mixed cultures, but no lasting bitterness.
When my wife married me, who am not even Christian (in an organized sense), with Jewish/Eastern European ancestry there was nothing but celebration and congradulations.
Things improve. Good luck with your cross-cultural marriage!
Posted by dangermom (Member # 1676) on :
I think it's fine and good, but you (generic you) have to be careful, and possibly be willing to work harder at the marriage than you might have to otherwise. There are so many cultural assumptions that we don't even think about, and it can be difficult to recognize and change them.
We have a bunch of intercultural marriages in my family, and we love having everybody around. But, for example, I know my BIL and his Japanese wife have had more conflict about finances than the DangerCouple has had, just because they were bringing completely different assumptions about money to the marriage.
A good friend of mine is very happy married to her Nepalese husband, but her SIL was more than a little taken aback to find her in-laws moving in with her a few months after the wedding. She wasn't prepared for those customs.
OTOH, you can have some great complimentary partnerships; my brother is the original absent-minded professor (he's had his head in the clouds since birth), and his hard-headed and practical Russian wife is great at taking care of him. Meanwhile, she is gratified by other aspects of his personality, so they get along well.
So I'm all for it--I just think it probably takes a bit more work. But think of all the fun you get as compensation!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
When my brother was dating a Japanese girl and was considering marriage, he asked me my opinion. I told him that all things being equal, I would recommend against it.
My wife and I both came from the same narrow sub-culture: white/mormon/american. Even so, our family cultures were *extremely* different. We had different basic assumptions about so many things. Things were very difficult for a long time. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been if we had come from different cultures.
So I advised against it. He didn't take my advice: they got married and recently had their first child. Once he decided he was going to do it, he's received nothing but support from his family.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
As the product of an intercultural marriage, I can tell you that you need to innoculate your home against making your kids' upbringing too weird. Sure an emotionally healthy kid should be able to roll with it, but if your children are highly intelligent or sensitive or anxiety prone they might wind up like me.
You think you want to be a good parent, and I'm not saying you won't be. But everyone learns through experience. I don't wish I'd never been born, and surely the intercultural thing wasn't the worst thing about my childhood. But I largely saw it as a challenge. And when it came time for me to be married, I had no choice but to go intercultural because my culture doesn't much exist elsewhere.
Fortunately, a big part of the American culture is pluralism and tolerance.
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
I'm a huge fan of intercultural marriages, seeing that I wouldn't be here if they didn't happen...
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
I thought the best part of my intercultural marriage would be being able to introduce my significant other to Star Wars and Star Trek. H. had never seen either...actually, before we were married, H. had only ever seen one movie.
As it turns out, H. was not impressed with my introduction to good 'ol fashion American movies.
We look at finances differently, but that has more to do with me being reckless. I love the intercultural marriage I am in. I get bored easy and like stimulation. We share a lot of the same values, personality traits, love and laughter. The biggest problem we have faced is altho I can relate to H's religious convictions, political ideas, books, and entertainment, H does not get my appreciation for things like Twin Peaks, 6 feet under, and Simpsons.
Since I do not speak H.’s language (yet), I don’t know the in-laws. H. gets along with my in-laws wonderfully. I am planning in living in the other country for 1-2 years once our soon-to-be child is around 2 years old.
Since not getting an aspect of my humor has been our biggest issue, I count myself eternally lucky. H. and I share a love of historical Asian movies, some kung fu movies, some kid flicks, and we both hated Possesion with the same passion—so we do relate quite a bit in entertainment. H. is wonderful, as is our marriage.
Go interracial/cross-cultural marriage go!!!
Posted by Garick (Member # 6619) on :
I'm all for it if it's for the right reasons. Being Asian.. I know many of my counterparts don't like it when Caucasians date Asian females.
For me.. as long as it's not just an "asian fetish" but they actually like the girl as a person.. then I'm all for it.
As well.. I think their mixed children are absolutely GORGEOUS!!
*and besides.. I normally see white guys with UGLY asian girls.. rarely do I see asian guys with cute white girls. And I'm kinda like.. good riddance. Take our ugly girls away and produce wonderful daughters.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
There's always the advantages of being discussed as livestock. Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
It depends on the couple. If they are two people who can handle the differences...particularly differing views on how to raise children it will work fine. I think it does add an extra challenge to a marriage, but if the two people love each other and are willing to work though any differences it can be a great thing.
Personally, I would think an interfaith marriage would be tougher than an intercultural marriage. I suppose that is simply because my faith is more important to me than my culture. I find it unlikely that I would marry someone who was not a Christian...certainly not an atheist since to me that would be to big of a barrier. But, everyone has their own thresholds of what they could accept.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Come to think of it -- all the American/Asian couples I know are caucasian male/Asian female. (and not necessarily mail-order brides, either. These are some good marriages I know personally) I have never seen a match of Asian male, white female -- do you know of some? I wonder why that is...
Farmgirl
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
My spouse is Asian. But here is a question to you all. Why does it seem more American White Men marry out side of their culture/race then American White Females? Does that say something about American White Men, Other Countries Men, Other Countries Women, American White Women, or does it hold no significance?
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Lupus, I agree. Since Tzadik and I come from the same religious tradition, sharing the same uncommon worldview, we are more nearly of the same culture than not. By that I mean that I am not really part of greater American culture and he is not really part of greater Slovak culture. A normal Slovak girl would never understand what motivates Tzadik or why he is committed to the things he is committed to; he'd totally freak her out. Ditto a regular American guy with me. So we disagree sometimes on politics, interpretations of history, some points of etiquette, which hand you hold your fork in and where you should keep your shoes in the house (though I've adapted on those), but we share the same base. Our Christian subculture goes deeper, overall, than our outside cultures.
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
Depends on whether or not you're mail-ordering her from Bulgaria or something.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Or him, in this case. Tzadik, do you have more mail-order grooms available from those parts?
Ah, I think intercultural marriages are great! I think the kids gain a lot in breadth of worldview. Also it's just cool to speak two languages at home.
I agree, too, that many things matter more than culture. Almost any two hatrackers from opposite sides of the globe would be much closer in spirit than any one of us and the random person living next door, I'm sure.
And anyway, we are all God's children, for sure.
I would definitely get straight the childrearing approach beforehand. To me the hitting/no hitting difference is very important, for instance. And parents need to present a fairly unified front, or else the kids will take them to pieces. Kids have so many natural advantages like limitless energy and lack of compunctions. Parents have to cling to thier unity or else toss in the towel completely!
Posted by Azile (Member # 2312) on :
quote: Come to think of it -- all the American/Asian couples I know are caucasian male/Asian female. (and not necessarily mail-order brides, either. These are some good marriages I know personally) I have never seen a match of Asian male, white female -- do you know of some? I wonder why that is...
saxon75?
The odd thing is that at my school (nearly 50% asian) there are more asian male/caucasian female than the other way around.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: I would definitely get straight the childrearing approach beforehand. To me the hitting/no hitting difference is very important, for instance. And parents need to present a fairly unified front, or else the kids will take them to pieces.
That can be an issue in "same" culture marriages too. Although I agree it is an important consideration.
I think interculture marriages can be wonderful and expose the children to experiences they would not have otherwise. A much more inportant consideration than culture or color is, "Does this person value marriage they way I do?"
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
[ June 29, 2004, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: BYuCnslr ]
Posted by Azile (Member # 2312) on :
I was going to mention you too, BYuCnslr, but then I remembered that you aren't quite married yet.
Adorable picture, by the way. You two make a cute couple. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
There's also pod and jaiden. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"Why does it seem more American White Men marry out side of their culture/race then American White Females? "
Probably because there are a LOT more men in the USmilitary than women, as well as a LOT more USmilitary personnel having extended stays rather than short vacations/trips overseas than civilians.
Even amongst civilians -- if the economic&social factors of living in one nation vs the other are even vaguely similar -- wives tend to adopt their husband's homeland more often than husbands adopt their wives'. So American men with foreign wives are more often seen in the US, while American women with foreign husbands are more often not seen in the US because they are living elsewhere.
Inregards to Americans marrying Americans, the tendency I've noticed is that WASPish* women are more likely to marry outside that ethnicity than WASPish men.
* ie People who would be viewed as being of NorthernEuropean extraction upon first glance
[ June 30, 2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by BlueJacsFan (Member # 6590) on :
I agree with what Lupus and ak have said regarding an interfaith marriage being more difficult than an intercultural one. I think that ideological barriers are much more difficult to surmount than the cultural ones.
My faith in God and my religious beliefs are a very big part of who I am. To marry someone who doesn't share a similar belief structure would be quite difficult, and most likely a constant source of stress in the relationship. I would not be very open to compromise on such matters.
Cultural differences, on the other hand, I often find very interesting. I enjoyed my time living in the Czech Republic, and loved getting to know the people and their culture. Had I met someone over there who shared my beliefs, and we were attacted to each other, the last few years could have been quite different. I might not have come back home after my year was up.
In some cases the culture and faith differences will be very interwoven. I have several Asian friends with whom their culture is laced very much with a lot of Buddhist practices. I would find it much more difficult to adapt in that enviornment, I think. That's not to say that it couldn't be done, as I also know several of those same friends have embraced Christianity, and turned away from those aspects of thier culture.
In any relationship, there will be differences that need to be reconciled. I think it's best if the two take the time to really get to know each other before commiting to a marriage. The more you talk, and the more time you spend together, the more likely you are to identify any irreconcileable differences before it's too late.
Posted by AmkaProblemka (Member # 6495) on :
I have an intercultural marriage. My husband barely spoke english when I met him.
It has been wonderful. I would have to say, that bracing for the cultural differences made it much easier to deal with the familial differences. The idea isn't to be afraid of the differences, but to learn how to integrate them into one set of family traditions.
One thing I've found though, is that I think the woman has more influence on the overall culture of the family. She speaks the language of the home, no matter what it is. She brings in the traditions of her family. Many times I asked my husband if they had a tradition or something they do surrounding certain shared holidays. He shrugged mostly and said, I don't know.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah, my mother said that EVERY marriage is an intercultural marriage, because no two families do things alike, and everyone tends to think their own family's way of doing things is the only real way to be. <laughs> So every marriage requires a lot of negotiation and compromise and divvying up of territory and tasks and decisionmaking, apparently.
But if core values are shared, I think this makes it much easier. Then the only discussion is over means.
Another thing my mother told me is that everyone gets unpleasant surprises about their spouse after they are married, even those with long engagements and so on. Apparently there is no way to really know another person, and even after 20, 30, 40 years they are still surprising you. (Sometimes pleasantly, I hope. )
Posted by Altril of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Its fine by me. A little twist in the mix.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah! And some people you'd just be delighted to spend eternity getting to know anyway! Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Asian men, especially those who come from traditional families, are spoiled rotten. Of course, most second generation Asian guys are just as liberal-minded as other Americans; i.e. they don't expect their wives to become homemakers.
However, many Asian guys were spoiled by their mothers. I know a lot of thirty-something Asian guys who don't even know how to fry an egg or wash their socks. They expect their girlfriends/wives to do that. This doesn't necessarily make them bad people, but it at least make them bad domestic partners.
I'm an Asian guy and generally I prefer dating non-Asian women. Asian women tend to be more passive. This does not mean they are less ambitious or anything, but due to their upbringing they are just less vocal and independent than other girls.
These are all generalizations and it obviously does not apply to anyone here, especially anyone who is bigger than me and can beat me up. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Larry King: What, Professor, puzzles you the most? What do you think about the most? Stephan Hawking: Women.
Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
Beren - It's funny that you say asian women tend to be more passive. Just like how 2nd generation asian men tend to be more liberal, 2nd generation asian women seem to be more aggresive. I would say about 50% of my friends are asian, and many of the girls in that group seem to be tough cookies. Also looking at the females on the Korean side of my family, it is not unusual to see the wives being dominant in many aspects. Have you seen an asian wife pissed at her asian husband before? *shudder* It can be quite terrifying. It's also funny how on my conservative white side of the family, the women generally seem tamer. I suppose it has more to do with appearing well-behaved.
Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
I'm totally against intercultural marriages btw. Mixed children are disgusting.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
There are several first-generation immigrant Filipina women at work. They are hands down the most outspoken women I have ever met in my life.
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
I guess my relationship with B is kinda odd... While I am very Scotch/Irish, I thoroughly enjoy learning about Asian cultures. My fiancee, on the other hand, loves Scotch/Irish cultures--so we're always trying to find out what each of us do for random holidays, at home, work, etc.
Both of us have talked a lot about raising kids, finanaces, and the other points brought up before we got engaged. What we didn't understand, we learned and have modified it to suit both of us.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
MayDay,
Can you tell me more? hmm... I'd like to hear/learn from anyone.
fallow
Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
Mayday - My experience as a half-asian, half-caucasian (mostly of scottish heritage) concerning celebrating holidays and carrying out traditions, is a pretty good one. Both of my parents strive to understand each others culture, and in the process, my family celebrates a lot. New Years is super fun. I party western-style with the rest of America, getting liquored up and setting off fireworks while I also get to dress up in the traditional Korean robe and have a feast with the family. Korean-Americans in my family celebrate thanksgiving with a feast of traditional seaweed soup with a lot of complimentary dishes that take all day to cook. My immediate family likes to draw thanksgiving day out over two nights. A traditional turkey feast one day, the seaweed soup the next.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
fallow
NdRa <- not cool.
fallow
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Quote: "Marraiges should be between two individuals, not two cultures." That's naive. Individuals are made by their cultures, combined with their personal experiences within the contexts of those cultures. My wife, from the Philippines, and I, from New Zealand, met at BYU Hawaii, a prime spot for intercultural relationships, in 1972, and married in 1975 (after my mission to Australia). We've had 29 years of the best life we could ever have hoped for since then. I think our attitude to our cultural differences was that they were no big deal. Any couple will have cultural differences, whether it's the culture found in their families or their nations. You work around them, make allowances for them. I think the fact that we started the first 4 years of our marriage in a 3rd cultural setting (American) helped us to be relatively neutral about our cultural differences. Also we had what we called "gospel culture" (LDS) in common, which we saw as much more important than either of our birth cultures. Our oldest son's wife is Japanese (he served his mission in Japan), and we have a beautiful Japanese/Filipino/Kiwi (New Zealander) granddaughter. Our daughter married an American, and while she's a Kiwi through and through, they both handle their cultural differences with a sense of humour, and so it's not an issue. They've given us two gorgeous American/Kiwi grandkids. Intercultural's part of our family culture!
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:I'm totally against intercultural marriages btw. Mixed children are disgusting.
I've been trying to tell you that for years. Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
Beren - A another reason mixed children suck. They don't listen. Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I have a question for people involved in or knowing of any intercultural marriage: how does such a couple choose the names for their children ?!
Posted by NdRa (Member # 2295) on :
Most Koreans I know have an American name along with a Korean name. So I supposed an intercultural couple could just choose two names for their children.
In my case, my parents decided not to give me a Korean name because....because...crap, I don't know why. I'll have to ask them when I see them tonight.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I say that inter-cultural marriages are more difficult, but I'm definitely "for". It livens up the gene pool. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I'm neither for nor against intercultural marriages. I don't think they're better or worse than single-culture marriages, but they do present a different set of problems for the couple.
That being said, I never considered marrying a Gentile and I will be devastated if any of my future children do so. I won't disown them and I'll try to keep my opinion to myself, but it will break my heart. To me, Jews have a duty to marry other Jews and produce Jewish children.
Andrew and I often joke that we have an intercultural marriage because I'm Southern and he's a New Yorker. Luckily, he's being won over to the Southern side more and more each year. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
As an alien stranded here on earth, (and as a someone who woke up one morning last week and finally realized she is a giant cockroach inside, so that explains perfectly why everyone who ever truly got to know her over the years ran away screaming in terror), there could not be any possible marriage for me that wasn't an interspecies intercultural one. Intergalactically intercultural, even.
But, by golly! My fiances and I just suit each other so perfectly! We are quite an intercultural family, one of us being an all american anglo sorta guy from Kentucky, the second one being a deist Sikh of Indian descent who grew up in small town Florida. The family of the latest (whom I've not announced to the board as a whole yet... still working on all the poetry required for that) is from Panama. He is also mad cool and you guys will love him. (His name is Jorge.)
Of course, though this whole polyandrous engagement thing is very new for me, my family has always been quite multicultural. Saudade, my daughter, is of Aztec and Spanish descent. Her husband Andrei is an African American from the Virgin Islands. Bernard, my big brother, of course, is Chinese American. Jaiden my other daughter is Canadian with lots of strong European things mixed in, English and French, mostly, I think. Sasha, my son, (Boshenka) is Russian speaking, born in Moldova. Noah, my newest little brother, you all know of course is Jewish, and of course he's from the planet of cuteness as well, being the sweetest most adorable little brother imaginable. (Not to detract from his badassness, I mean, though, sorry Noah! )
Richard Chiu, one of my best friends of my life, is half Chinese, half Anglo. Amira, another close friend of my life, is British of Indian descent, Islamic. Manuel, my extruelove, is half Mexican half Anglo. Anna, one of my very closest friends, is Irish Catholic from LA and Maine, and she's very Celtic. Human, as you all know, is an Anglo-something pequenino who's in his third life as a tree. Paul Jay (black fox) is German American, and Morgan (Pixie) of course is Irish.
I think of all these cultural differences as being enriching and never something to be sad or crossways about.
The only rule for our marriage is that we do nothing without the wholehearted consent of all spouses. The fact that we have different gifts just means there's more for us to give to each other. It just increases the love and joy, until it spirals out to infinity.
[ August 17, 2004, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Trying out new screenname. Just thought I ought to get this one. Will go back to posting as ak now so as not to be too confusing.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
Why do you think Jews have a duty to produce more Jews? I am Anglo-Saxon AFAIK, and I could care less if there were no more Anglo-Saxons or white people in general ever born. I do not understand the concept of duty to an ethnicity.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And if Jews were merely an ethnicity, I would agree with you, Danzig. However, Jews are far more than an ethnic group, so I agree with MrsM on this. To illustrate, I think the responsibility devolves upon converts (who surely are not ethnically Jewish) equally.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
More than an ethnic group? You mean the religious stuff? If Judaism is true, why would God need help preserving his followers?
Besides, I thought you were Jewish if your mother was Jewish. Is it different for different sects? (Not sure if that is the right word; I am thinking of Reform, Orthodox, etc.) Why do female Jews need to marry male Jews? Edit: I realize this paragraph is a bit of a tangent.
[ August 16, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Danzig ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ah, the smell of disdain in the evening.
Every child is a three-way partnership between God and its parents.
While it is true that Judaism is determined by the mother, Jewish children deserve to be raised in a Jewish home. And that's difficult to do if one parent is not Jewish.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I hear you, rivka!
I remember something Gandhi said to someone Hindu who confessed he had murdered an Islamic person and felt terrible and asked how he could ever make amends. Gandhi told him to go and find Islamic children who had been orphaned by the fighting. And to adopt them and love them dearly and raise them, but to raise them as good Muslims. That was such a great thing, I think.
I would like to give my children EVERY religion, every viewpoint, every worldview they can possibly be exposed to, so that they might best choose their own paths.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Danzig, there is also the little factoid that the Jewish culture is disappearing due to assimilation.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
I guess. I doubt I would care if American culture was disappearing, but I suppose there is probably more worth saving in the Jewish culture. (Is there? 90% of everything is crap, but does that mean that American culture is part of the 90% and Jewish the 10%, or is it that 90% of both American and Jewish cultures is crap?)
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Danzig, I'm sure that you don't mean to be offensive, but you should be aware that your tone is somewhat discourteous.
quote:Why do you think Jews have a duty to produce more Jews? I am Anglo-Saxon AFAIK, and I could care less if there were no more Anglo-Saxons or white people in general ever born. I do not understand the concept of duty to an ethnicity.
First of all, I think you're painting too broad a picture of your own ethnicity. Are you a WASP (white Anglo-Saxon Protestant)? Are you a German-English Catholic? I'm Anglo-Saxon and I'm Jewish. You have to factor religion in when you discuss ethnicity.
Also, consider that Judaism is thousands of years older than many ethnicities. We survived for this long because we fulfill and honor our duty to produce and raise Jewish children.
quote:More than an ethnic group? You mean the religious stuff? If Judaism is true, why would God need help preserving his followers?
Well, we take the "religious stuff" pretty seriously. As I stated above, you cannot divorce ethnicity from religion. As to the second part of your question, I assume it is rhetorical. I will say that our tradition has lasted for thousands of years against overwhelming, seemingly insurmountable odds.
quote:Besides, I thought you were Jewish if your mother was Jewish. Is it different for different sects? (Not sure if that is the right word; I am thinking of Reform, Orthodox, etc.
Yes, if your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish according to our laws. For example, my father is a WASP and I am fully Jewish nonetheless. The Reform movement does consider the children of a Jewish father and Gentile mother Jewish if the child is raised Jewish. Orthodox and Conservative denominations do not.
quote:Why do female Jews need to marry male Jews?
In addition to the reason that rivka mentioned, there is a prohibition against intermarriage in the Torah:
quote:3 neither shalt thou make marriages with them: thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For he will turn away thy son from following Me, that they may serve other gods; so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and He will destroy thee quickly.
Deut. 7:3-4
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
I suppose I would be WASP... certainly I was. Still, it would have made no difference whether all Ps were WAS's or recent African converts, and I would shed no tears to learn that WAS or WASP culture in its current incarnation would be dead in two generations.
I know Judaism is old, but old is not necessarily better. (Not trying to imply it is worse.)
I totally understand wanting your children to marry someone of the same religion, but not ethnicity. I do believe religion can be divorced from ethnicity, or perhaps the other way around. I was a WASP; now I am probably not. Would you care if your children married a Jew of another Jewish denomination? Of another religion entirely? It is one thing to want your grandchildren raised in the Jewish religion by two religious Jews; it is another to want them raised outside the religion by two ethnic Jews.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: I have a question for people involved in or knowing of any intercultural marriage: how does such a couple choose the names for their children ?!
Porter's brother, who is married to a Japanese gal, just recently became a father. They named their little girl Karisa, a Japanese name that, quite conveniently, is awfully similar to the English name Karissa. Of course, you can't always do that sort of thing--find a name that exists in both cultures.
Oh, and Porter's and my marriage was *definitely* intercultural, ak. It's amazing our two families co-exist in the same country. Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
Jews don't really have denominations---instead they have sects. Some sects of the Hewbrew faith are more strict and adhere more directly to the Torah. Marriage outside the faith, particularly in the more strict sects, is forbidden. Should a marriage occur outside the faith, the child is treated as if he or she is dead to their family.
Less orthodox families belonging to more modern sects of Judaism don't hold to that belief so strongly. My own brother married into a Jewish family, so his daughter is Jewish, even if he is not. I'm wondering how her own ethnic/religious identity will be effected in the future (she's four now) by the split in her own family.
I think intercultural marriages can work, but there have to be clear understandings about each culture going in. American culture can be so different than other cultures in the way we view women and their rights as well as child rearing and other important parts of being married.
Of course, my now defunct marriage was to a fellow American and that didn't work either because our own personal cultures were so different...go figure... Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
I used sect at first, but Mrs.M used denomination so I switched to that.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: My spouse is Asian. But here is a question to you all. Why does it seem more American White Men marry out side of their culture/race then American White Females? Does that say something about American White Men, Other Countries Men, Other Countries Women, American White Women, or does it hold no significance?
This is a fascinating question and one I must ponder myself since I had the option of marrying someone of another culture/race. I was pretty hesitant to take him from his country when I felt he was needed there. And I knew my *very* close-knit family would have hated for me to live out of the country and on the other side of the planet.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the proposed sentiment in the scripture:
quote: Gen. 2: 24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
That idea is repeated several times in later scriptures. There is the idea here of a man leaving his family behind, as though when he gets married his ties to his parents are no longer strong. And yet no such statement is made about the ties between the woman and her parents.
But this does not explain why Asian women would be more likely to marry an American man than the other way around.
To be honest, I have always looked at it as the desire of American men to have more subserviant wives. The Asian cultures tend to be very male-dominated in general, and most American women would not be willing to submit to such authority as Asian men may be accustomed to having.
Now, I don't know if this is true, and it is not a very flattering idea for American men married to Asian women to accept. After all, my brother-in-law married a Japanese gal. While both of them insist that she is very bold and open for a Japanese, to us silly Americans, she seems awfully compliant and eager to please. (She is a gracious and beautiful person, but she is not very assertive--for an American, anyway.) I think that on a certain level, this is very pleasing to him, whether he realizes it or not.
These cultural/social/sexual differences may or may not apply to other cultures. But I think there is also the "exotic" concept that often appeals more to men that to women, methinks.
[ August 17, 2004, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I think it depends on what interculture marriages you're talking about. For instance, I've seen far, far, far more white girls marry black guys than vice versa, and far more white guys marry Asian girls than vice versa. *shrug*
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: To be honest, I have always looked at it as the desire of American men to have more subserviant wives. The Asian cultures tend to be very male-dominated in general, and most American women would not be willing to submit to such authority as Asian men may be accustomed to having.
It works the other way, too. I've spoken to women from other cultures who say that American men are more open to the idea of treating women as equals than men from other cultures, and they like this. Perhaps this was just said to please me, an American male. Dunno. But it was said.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Good point, Storm! I didn't think to look at it the other way, but that totally makes sense.
Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
Fallow:
It started out innocently, with me asking him what his family did for Christmas, and me in turn describing what we did. It expanded from there--I was curious about Chinese culture, he was curious about mine, like I said. We talked about children: Bernard said his family has Chinese names and English names, so he wants to have Irish names for our children.
Today, for example, we went to Chinatown in Chicago and Bernard was our "cultural tour guide", and we asked him many (probably annoying) questions about food and other things. He also taught me how to say "thank you" in Mandarin--I think I did pretty well, for an uneducated white chick. (although I got him to roll his eyes more than once )
And since religion came up... I'm Catholic, he's not. It's important for me to have my children baptized, and he's ok with it so far. When we have children, however, they will be brought up with a knowledge of other religions, and if they wish to convert we will support them.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I’ve always thought that such a marriage is wonderful. Each person brings his/her unique cultural background into marriage and then you have a chance to pick what works for you from both cultures. And I think that’s exciting. What more – this is, in my opinion, a rather big advantage for children. They are raised speaking at least 2 languages, they are exposed to different cultures, customs (like we celebrate name day - just another opportunity to get presents), celebrating different holidays (or celebrating some twice – Christmas on the 24th and 25th), kids have 2 citizenships (in our case US and EU) etc. Yes, I think that intercultural relationships are blessing, in general. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)