Is Small Gods a book that can be appreciated fully without having read any of the other discworld books? If not, in your opinion which others should be read first?
I’ve read several, but not Small Gods, and it seems to me that some of them would be a good first introduction to the series, and others not so much.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Small Gods works great as a stand-alone. There aren't any major characters in common with other books in the Discworld. Of course, the whole thing still takes place on the Disc, so you've got that whole cosmology to contend with. But it's pretty self-explanatory.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Per Tom's suggestion, I've started with the Death books [Mort would be the first one there] and am thoroughly enjoying them.
If you haven't seen them already, you should check out the Discworld reading order guides. I've found them quite useful.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
small gods works fine as a stand alone.
and, people, DON'T START WITH MORT. it's hands down the best one. if you start with it, where can you go but down?
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Great. Thanks, celia. At least you could have left me with the illusion that there was another one out there as or even almost as good.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
I disagree about Mort. I read it relatively early on, and I'm sure I enjoyed it, but I really don't remember much of anything about it, and I've never had the urge to reread it.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I agree with celia on Mort. It was my first one, many moons ago, and it remains my favourite.
I read Small Gods for fun while in a philosophy-heavy program and enjoyed it hugely. It works well as a stand-alone.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I haven't seen the reading guides, I started with "The Color of Magic" and have largely read them as they come out."Small Gods does work well as a stand alone. Anyone else read "The Last Hero"?
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
The Last Hero was good, but mostly because of the illustrations. It wasn't one of the best stories, however. And it felt really unnatural to have so many of the recurring storylines come together momentarily -- I would rather Carrot, Rincewind and Leonard not spend so much time together.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I like "The Truth," but then I work at a newspaper. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I enjoyed The Last Hero enormously, but then again I'm weird. Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Don't get me wrong, the Last Hero was lots of fun. I didn't agree with some of the illustrations (they didn't match up well to my imagination), but most were really good. I loved the pictures of the Silver Horde. In fact, the parts that focussed on the barbarians were quite good. I even liked the spaceship, and enjoyed seeing the schematics of it.
One of my problems was seeing Pratchett try to allot the spotlight between some of his premium characters. Rincewind becomes the main character, aside from Cohen himself, but that just means that Carrot is shortchanged. Not only is he shortchanged, but his very nature is altered. He just doesn't seem the same guy that I grew to love from the Watch books.
The Last Hero did convince me of something that I had suspected anyways -- that Rincewind is in fact the central character of all of the Discworld books, even the ones he does not appear in.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
To appreciate Small Gods, you have to know two things. Neither is a spoiler:
1.) The world really does rest on the back of 4 elephants riding on the back of a giant turtle swimming through space. This isn't conjecture, myth, or theory. People have seen the turtle and the elephants.
2.) The character that talks in all capital letters is Death.
That's it. Small Gods does take on a pretty heavy topic and does have a more serious tone than the two others I've read.
Dagonee
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Hmm. I forgot about the all capital letters. That's going to be interesting for reading aloud.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
How about The Hogfather? Death takes a holiday role ... I love that one, too.
Let's face it - I love them all.
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
Mort's brilliant. And I finally bought a copy. But Night Watch will still be high on my favorites, along with Reaper Man.
I now have every Discworld novel except The Last Continent. Which was, frankly, nothing special.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: Hmm. I forgot about the all capital letters. That's going to be interesting for reading aloud.
You could stand up when you read those parts. Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Are these books particularly worth getting into? I may lug around the first with me during my very upcoming bike trip, but god help you if you leave me chauffering another Robin Hobb...
(I'm shaking my fist at the screen, if you can't tell.)
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
these are the kind of books you find yourself reading snippets of to other people whether they want to listen or not.
quote:There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
-- (Terry Pratchett, The Truth)
[ June 03, 2004, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: CaySedai ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:You could stand up when you read those parts.
I don't think that will help.
(reading over the phone) Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Lalo, I think it's fairly safe to say that you would like Small Gods very much. From there you can decide if the rest are worth getting into.
Dagonee
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Re: the evolution of Carrot's character. (*SPOILERS*)
I think it's possible that Pratchett is DELIBERATELY "maturing" Carrot's character. Beginning in Jingo, we definitely see Carrot embracing his role as the "secret" king, and he's clearly become more manipulative and self-confident in that role. He wears the role of rube, still, but I think Pratchett is steadily hinting that, more and more, it IS a role, and that Carrot -- while remaining firmly good -- is not nearly as naive as he used to be.
This makes Carrot a slightly less embraceable character, since we're conditioned as a society to think of manipulation as a poor character trait. But it makes him a slightly more interesting character, and I'd like to see Pratchett go somewhere with that (especially since Vimes' character arc is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much filled out -- to the point that he's had to start shoveling in backstory to keep it fresh.)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I loved reading Mort out loud to my wife. She said that I could pronounce capitols very well. Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
You guys know there's a play version of Mort? Rahl was in a production of it. He must read all caps very well.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I have the script. Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
I just finished Mort. I don't think its as good as, for example, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Night Watch, or Men at Arms. But it was good.
Speaking of which, I definetely enjoy the Watch books. I've read Gaurds Guards, Men of Clay, Night Watch, Men at Arms... what else should I read?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In that sequence, you're missing Jingo and The Fifth Elephant. Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The first couple books aren't really representative of the rest. The first were obvious parodies of classic fantasy works - and funny as hell - while the rest are more satirical of... well, pretty much everything.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
So, we started Small Gods last night, and came across an immediate problem -- no chapter breaks.
I guess we just read until either the reader or the listener falls asleep. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Pratchett doesn't GENERALLY use chapter breaks. But he DOES occasionally put in a line of asterisks or something. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Dana, that works for me wonderfully! Although, it is most often me, the listener, who falls asleep before Tom tires of reading. Pratchett is so fun read aloud, although I have read a few just myself and have enjoyed them.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Thanks, Tom.
And pre-congrats on the about-to-arrive lack-of-sleep in your home.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:You could stand up when you read those parts.
quote: I don't think that will help.
(reading over the phone)
That's what the volume control is for. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Never thought of the emboldened capitalization as loundness, m'self, but rather as a basso profundo -- carrying power that attracts attention, cuts through louder voices -- ala BarryWhite.
[ June 03, 2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Well, online THIS IS GENERALLY CONSIDERED SHOUTING (or at least very emphatic). So I figured it might apply in this instance as well.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Well, Death isn't heard in Pratchetts books. The voice is described as entering the brain without passing through the ears. And there aren't quotation marks around it.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I think I’ll use my most solemn funeral proclamation voice. That should be appropriate, neh?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I know, Paul. (I've read Mort, and a number of the others.) But I'm fairly certain dkw's cell phone does not have that particular feature.
dkw, quite. Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
My favorite Discworld book so far is Interesting Times. Rincewind is awesome.
~Jane~
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In the Discworld cartoon miniseries that ran on BBC4, Death is voiced by Christopher Lee. And as Terry Pratchett has ALWAYS said in interviews that he thinks of Christopher Lee whenever he's writing Death's voice, and as he absolutely refused to let the cartoons get filmed without first signing Christopher Lee, I think we can safely assume that, to Pterry, TALKING IN ALL CAPS JUST LIKE THIS sounds more than a little like Christopher Lee, except perhaps when Susan does it.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents is totally independent of all the other Discworld novels, and can be enjoyed entirely on its own.
It's also one of the best books Terry Pratchett has written in years. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Is there a list of the different "cycles" of Discworld books? For example, The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic are clearly related, and the second makes no sense without the first. But Small Gods is independent.
So I'm wondering which sets of books go together and in what order?
Dagonee
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Check out the third post in this thread, Dag.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Thanks! That's the problem with 16-day old threads with only one page - I think I can remember everything that's been posted...
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*bump*
My brother gave me Wyrd Sisters and Maskerade for my birthday and I just finished them. I must now go to the bookstore to find more.
*joins the herd*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
What is a science novel?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Most of his books can be read in jusa about any order. There are groups that go better together, but he has always felt that any book worth writing should be able to stand alone.
And unlike other authors, he has suceeded for the most point.
Kwea
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Amazing. Simply amazing.
I dwell among the heathen and pagan.
Have you people no shame?
Terry Pratchett's best book, bar none, is the book Feet of Clay. Honestly, you people.
Terry Pratchett's novels generally follow specific characters, enough to be categorized into particular groups:
Ankh-Morkph - The Patrician and his ever-loving Watch
Witches - the granny from Hell
Death - sometimes, he really is here for the cake
Rincewind - yeah, you try locking this luggage pal
I'm not a big fan of the witches or Rincewind, but Death is always a favorite and the Watch is always worth an evening of undivided attention.
Generally speaking, you don't need to read any of the previous books to enjoy whichever book is currently holding your imagination captive, but it can make the experience more rewarding.
-Trevor
Edit: For structure
[ September 14, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"What is a science novel?"
If you are still referring to Pratchett, there is The Science of Discworld which is a combination of a novella with some wizardly and scientific&mathematical commentary on how the Discworld and our own "Roundworld" works.
[ September 14, 2004, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
A good place to "hear" how Death "speaks" is on the audio books produced by ISIS books. We found them at the local library. The very first discworld book we listened to was Mort and the word Pratchett uses to describe Death's "voice" is intonation. The actor that reads this book (Nigel Planer) drops his tone and gives a sort of mortuary sort of sound to Death. Now,my kids and I intone at each other. GO DO YOUR HOMEWORK has a lot more force when intoned.
I loved Mort but so far, my favorite has been Reaper Man. I have a soft spot for the Death of the Discworld.
Right now we're listening to Thief of Timeand I really love his satire of modern education and how Susan has become a teacher. The thing that I appreciate about Pratchett is his ablity to make me see the world upside down.
[ September 15, 2004, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I am dissatisfied with the structure of The Colour of Magic, particularly the ending.
It was a very fun ride: it just didn't go anywhere.
Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
My favorite group of Discworld books is the Rincewind books (especially Interesting Times), but my favorite individual book is Hogfather.
quote: LITTLE MIRACLES ALL OVER THE PLACE, WITH MANY A MERY HO, HO, HO. TEACHING PEOPLE THE REAL MEANING OF HOGSWATCH, ALBERT.
"What, you mean that the pigs and cattle have all been slaughtred and with any luck everyone's got enough food for the winter?"
WELL, WHEN I SAY THE REAL MEANING--
"Some wretched devil's had his head chopped off in a wood somewhere 'coshe found a bean in his dinner and now the summer's going to come back?"
NOT EXACTLY THAT, BUT--
"Oh, you mean that they've chased down some poor beast and shot arrows up into their apple trees and now the shadows are going to go away?"
THAT IS DEFINITELY A MEANING, BUT I--
"Ah, then you're talking about the one where they light a bloody big bonfire to give the sun a hint and tell it to stop lurking under the horizon and do a proper day's work?"
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The new one is out - "Going Postal." A convicted (and executed) con man is assigned the task of reviving the years-dead Ankh-Morpork Postal Service. It gets a little tricky...
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
yay for new Terry Pratchett books!
at least he doesn't take as long as Robert Jordan ... (yeah, I know Jordan books are thicker, but I think Pratchett can write the same number of words and put out more books in a shorter period of time - and yes, I'll still a Jordan fan - just a frustrated one)
and back to yay for new Terry Pratchett books! Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Holy...new Terry Pratchett book out...my favorite subject...and my first paycheck hits tomorrow.
Oooh, can we say "Fate?"
I knew you could.
-Trevor
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I read it in a slush pile, a yeara ago.
just kidding....
BTW, I really loved Small Gods..
Kwea
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Here's a question... I'd like to get one of the Discworld books for my brother as a Xmas gift, I think he might like it. He's a minister, so I'd like to give him one that doesn't make fun of religion too much. (Or, rather, if it does, one that also has GOOD things to say about it.) I was thinking I'd try Small Gods, since I'd heard good things about it. But I just started reading it myself, and so far the emphasis is on religious hypocrisy. (Maybe that changes later on in the book, but that's how it's starting out.)
Sooo... any suggestions for a good Discworld book that serves as a good intro to the series, but that won't get perceived as being anti-religious and so get put down without getting finished?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Go with "The Color of Magic."
Small Gods' tone doesn't change much.
Dagonee
Posted by Choobak (Member # 7083) on :
Agree with Dagonee. The first is a good introduction !
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Most of the Discworld novels that address religion do so from the position of a skeptic observing Anglican history. There are a few -- like Carpe Jugulum and Small Gods -- which represent fairly deep and largely positive views of religion, but mostly the priests of the Disc are, like every other organization on the Disc, subjects of satire.
If you're looking for books that are going to treat religion seriously, you're probably not going to find them here. The Discworld books treat very, very few topics seriously.
That said, there are some books which deal with religion less than some others -- Guards, Guards! springs to mind -- or deal with religions that many Christians might not mind mocking nowadays (like Pyramids.)
The Color of Magic is one of the weakest books in the series, and doesn't work well (IMO) as a introduction except to people who are really determined to read things in chronological order. I'd go with Mort, myself.
[ December 20, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Y'all are fast! Thanks all, I'll check out some of these at the bookstore today. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Carpe Jugulum is the most religiously positive book of the series: a main protagonist is a man of the cloth.
Terry Pratchett himself considers The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic as lesser works, as mere parodies. According to interviews, the Discworld series -- as the chronicle of a World unto itself -- really begins with the third book, Equal Rites.
[ December 20, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
_Small Gods_ is fantastic. In fact, I'd love to teach a course on "Religious Satire That's Religious" that includes it along with Bulgakov's _The Master and Margarita_, Doestevesky's _The Idiot_, and a couple of other works TBD.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I love "The Truth." I work at a newspaper and some parts of it seemed especially funny to me. Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Hey! That's the Discworld novel I just finished -- last Thurs. or Fri. it was.
I work in public relations so I found it quite funny as well. It's amazing the kind of crazy people you get if they think you can put them in print.
Venitari's comments about 'old' news are too true.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
(yeah, I know Jordan books are thicker, but I think Pratchett can write the same number of words and put out more books in a shorter period of time - and yes, I'll still a Jordan fan - just a frustrated one)![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)