This is topic well, I finally caught her in the act. (she's come clean and I'm venting, sorry) in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
last night. drove to the guys appartment I've been suspecting her of seeing and I saw her through the window stradeling him and being all affectionate and playful and I saw them kiss. It was about 12:30 and he was only wearing boxer shorts. She was fully dressed. That was all I saw but it was enough. She admitted to only kissing him a few times but come on, I'm not a complete idiot. She has spent the night there at least three times and one time I went over there and knocked and she he answered after a few minutes. She was in her PJ's and the top was on inside out and her cigarettes were on his night stand. Hmmm... I believe 2+2=4. DAMN IT!!!!
[ June 08, 2004, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
That sucks, man. I wish I knew what to tell you. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It sucks, but neither is it surprising. Now that you no longer need to be suspicious of this, can you stop obsessing about this and just cut her out of your life already?
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Beat, Tom's right. You know the truth now and honestly there's nothing you can do to change it. If you keep going to find out what she's doing, well, it can only hurt you and possibly get you into legal trouble (anti-stalking laws, peeping tom, or it escalates into a fight with the guy).
Just cut her loose from your heart and go on about getting YOUR life together. She ain't coming back and why would you want her now? The best revenge is living well, so get on and start living for yourself.
You're a fine fellow and a dirty deed was done to you. But truthfully, there's no way to undo it or make it right again. Just turn around and walk away. Somewhere, in the opposite direction from her, is a much, much better day.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Actually Tom, I've been trying. She refuses to move out and I sure as hell ain't going anywhere. I've been trying to get ahold of my lawyer the last few days to find out what I can do legally to get her out now.
And yes, I am obsessing. but this is the woman whom I love more than words can desribe. This is the woman that despite being a disloyal POS, I miss more each day. This is the woman I share two beautiful children with and had hoped to spend my entire life with. Moving on is a lot easier said than done. At least for me. My feeling die hard.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You could probably kill two birds with one stone by hiring a detective. She's not making any effort to keep the affair a secret, after all, and proof would make it much easier in the divorce proceedings which will inevitably follow.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I just wanted to appologize for all the whinning I've done over the last few months. (thank you Tom for pointing out just how bad I've been) It's been a very unusual time for me and I've used this forum as a vent for my frustrations perhaps once too often. Sorry if I've annoyed anyone but sometimes just communicating your problems helps and Hatrack has helped. So thanks you as well.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
You have not been whining. You are most welcome and of course right to share this with us. Thank you for trusting us with it. Tom's in a grumpy mood about other things, I think. Don't worry about it.
It probably is healthier to start figuring out your next step, but your marriage is dissapearing. It's okay to whine. Heaven knows I do about just about everything that goes badly.
I am sorry. You knew this before, but it's no fun at all to have suspicions confirmed. I'm sorry, beatnix.
[ May 24, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
One thing you need to realize is that this woman probably isn't "the woman you love more than words can describe." It's very hard to believe this when the word you used to describe her is POS. If you can use that word, what you are feeling is anger, jealousy, frustration, hatred, or even embarassment. But it is not love.
Think hard about why you think you still love this woman. What is it about her that actually exists that you love. I think you'll find that what you love is the idea you had about her and have come to find out was a wrong idea. She clearly isn't the woman you thought she was, at least not anymore. You can regret the wasted investment of your time and energy with this person. You can mourn the death of whatever real you shared. You can even mourn the disillusionment of finding out she isn't what you thought she was. But to waste something as precious as love for someone for whom that love has no value is a tragedy indeed. But it's one you can end.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
And is this the environment you want your children to be in? Dad is heartbroken and Mom goes out everynight to see someone else?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
quote:Think hard about why you think you still love this woman.
Well isn't it obvious. I love the lies, hurtful actions and great way she crushes my heart each day.
Seriously, I keep asking myself that question and I have no idea. I think more than anything I am scared out of my mind about being alone. Not to mention what it will do to the kids.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Karl makes a very good point.
If I were you, the bigest problem is that you are still physically with her. You cannot/will not get away from here presence. How can you get over her when she is always there evoking the same emotional responses from you and re-opening the same wounds. You've gotta get away, man.
edit: for clarity
[ May 24, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Being alone... would probably be better than being with someone you cannot trust completely... Perhaps it is insolent and impertinent of me to say this, but you deserve better.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
As long as the two of you make a commitment to not fight in front of the kids, they'll be fine. Mommy and Daddy living in two different houses isn't that big a deal. Mom and Dad fighting is scary. Just spend as much time with them as you can, beatnix. Remind them that you always love them no matter what.
Unfortunetly, if you behave yourself, this will be far harder on you than on them. But I assume you're willing to make that kind of sacrifice for them. Hang in there. It'll suck for a long time, but I promise, it will get better.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:I think more than anything I am scared out of my mind about being alone.
I can totally understand that. Unfortunately, all I can tell you is that you need to be alone for a little while, at least in the romantic relationship sense, to avoid making even deeper mistakes. You should do all you can to ease the loneliness by filling your free time with your kids, first, then family and friends. Don't pine over the woman you lost as she is not the woman you really want, anyway. Certainly don't date until the divorce is final, and I'd probably say wait another 4-6 months after that. If you're craving affection during this time, well, "be your own best friend". When you do start dating, you want it to be with a clear head and with a clear idea of what you want in a date/mate.
I know what loneliness can be. I know what it's like to want someone to be with. I also know what it's like to be with someone who isn't what you thought he was. You have to be careful that you don't let yourself want someone so bad you end up taking anyone.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
First of all Beat, you are not alone. We are here.
Secondly, you have not been whining. You have been very brave in opening up to us.
Thirdly, you deserve the love you are giving, but this woman is unable to give it to you right now.
Lonliness and change are the two scariest things we face (death, that's easy compared to those two, if death wasn't the ultimate change). You are brave just thinking about facing them.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Ditto on the detective. You need to write everything down yourself, but having an semi-unbiased detective doing the observation will give you ammo when it comes to the custody battle.
You DON'T want this woman raising your children. Is this the kind of person you really want as a role model for them, regardless of genetic ties?
AJ
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
quote:be your own best friend
I've been "my own best friend" for so long that even "myself" is getting boring. Heck, even "myself's" bestfriend, lefty, isn't much fun anymore. Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Ok, here's a legal question. Can I make her leave? I know a big problem is that she is always there. SO when she leaves and goes out I can't help but get upset. I've asked and asked that she leave but she refuses to go. She keeps sayign taht I can't make her go because it's her house as much as mine. No this is the part i think works in my favor. The house actually belongs to my grandfather and we rent form him. He, obviously, is not real pleased with her and wants nothing to do with giving her any help. I come from a very strong roman catholic Italain family. SO, loyalty and all that is slightly important. SO, anyways we don't have a lease. There is no documentation that gives her, or I for that matter (but I could easily remedy that), the right to be there. SO... with this situation could I force her out?
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:You DON'T want this woman raising your children.
not to raise issue with this, because i'm not sure if you were referring to the adultery or the poor parenting beatnix has mentioned in the past -- but if you're saying that being adulterous means that a person would not be a good parent, i have to say that both my parents cheated on one another while they were married. so...i pretty much wouldn't have any parents right now, if adulterers were bad parents. Which, they're not...necessarily. They're just bad spouses.
But i agree that based on what beatnix mentioned in the past about his "wife" leaving the kids home alone while she went off (i am remembering this correctly, aren't i?) is just cause to not want to trust her with raising them.
edit: to add a "necessarily"
[ May 24, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonide ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I don't know about the legal aspects, but the old packing the bags and setting them on the doorstep would probably get the point across. If you do that and change the locks given that there is no signed lease she is on, I don't think there would be much she could do.
Dividing up the property will happen with the divorce settlement I think. If she gives you a written list of things she thinks she has paid for, then depending on reasonable or unreasonable, her requests are you could comply.
But I'm not a legal expert either. I'd definitely talk to your lawyer first.
AJ
Posted by Damien (Member # 5611) on :
I agree...
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Point taken Leonide. I was saying more due to the bad parenting, and that she is not exhibiting the moral conduct he would like to see in a role model for his children.
But bad spouses can still be good parents, just doesn't appear to be the case here.
AJ
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
AS much as I hate to admit it she is a fairly good mother. My concern wouldn't be with the cheating but with the neglect. And to be completely honest, which I'm trying to do and not let my emotions blind me to what is real, She does deserve to play a very active role in the kids lives. Right now I'm torn between fighting for full custody, which I fear I'll lose (due to the fact that most of this will come down to he said she said), or agreeing to some type of shared custody. I do believe that until she gets her crap together that the kids should stay with me. I don't know this is actually the hardest part of all this.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Talk to a lawyer before doing ANYTHING. If you pack her bags and change the locks, she can gain an advantage in the proceedings. Whether it's fair or not, denying her access to the marital abode will be a mark against you.
Again, talk to a lawyer. It's critical. Take no action until then.
If you arrange for a PI, do so through the lawyer. You want your conduct to be absolutely beyond reproach.
I know this is hard. Unfortunately, nothing that is emotionally satisfying is likely to help you legally.
Dagonee
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Beatnix,
Well, your Grandfather could force her out. Of course, you may still need to pay attention to Dagonee's last post--if that gives her an advantage in court, it might not be the best idea in the long run. In the short run, though, what's to keep your Grandfather from changing the locks on his own house...?
Oh, and BTW, you might want to edit your last post, legal maneuverings and all...
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I agree with Dagonee - talk to a lawyer before doing anything. I dated before my divorce was final, and was told by my lawyer that it was fine; it might be different where you're from. I'm just worried about the fact that you feel the need to follow her. It's time to cut her loose, and hopefully your lawyer will come up with a way to get her out of the house - which means she's more out of your life.
space opera
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
((((beatnix)))) Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Maybe I'm too trusting of Dagonee's legal background, but I'd go with his advice cause he's in Law School or something.
P.S. Even for the landlord to change the locks as a remedy is highly illegal, if there is any basis for her having an implied lease such as utilities for that address in you all's name.
[ May 24, 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Just so everyone knows my advice is merely to talk to a lawyer.
I'm not giving any legal advice until I pass the bar. They're picky about that.
Dagonee
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ouch, beatnix. (((((beatnix))))) Facing up to a painful truth -- even one you already were fairly sure of -- is always difficult and painful.
And I disagree with KarlEd's second post. I think it is quite possible to still love her, regardless of the reprehensible things she has done (and is doing). You saw enough good in this woman that you married her, and had kids with her. The fact that she has abused your love and trust tarnishes your love for her, but does not erase it.
Only time can do that, in my experience. So, as KarlEd said in his most recent post, make sure you GIVE yourself that time. Trying to be in a new relationship while still reeling from this one is a sure-fire recipe for disaster. Don't do that to yourself -- or your kids.
In general, I'm very much in favor of shared custody to as great a degree as practical. Kids really need to have a relationship with both parents -- or at least an opportunity for one.
I agree with Dagonee. Talk to a lawyer as soon as possible. If money is an issue, there are sliding-scale and/or free resources in most areas. I only know about CA, but someone else here may know more about what's available in Ohio.
Good luck.
Posted by ctm (Member # 6525) on :
Hi beatnix
I'm newly registered here so no one knows me, but I've been reading and lurking for a while. Just wanted to say I'm unfortunately going through the same thing-- my husband is cheating on me. Our marriage is pretty much over, he's taking a week with no contact with the other woman and a vow of silence about the relationship from me, but our chances of staying together are slim. And yes, I still love him, and I still wish things could be better or that this all never happened. But I'm beginning to accept that in many ways, he's been gone a long time-- we'll just be making it official.
Anyway, I know what you are feeling and it just plain sucks. Good luck to you!
ctm
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Let me piss a lot of people off. Am I completely stupid for forgiving her and still wanting to make things work? I mean it hurts like hell, I do want to move on if I have to, and I'll never really forgive her, But I'm quick to forget and move on. I try not to live in the past and I know that if she tried I'd still give her a chance. Not that this is going to happen. I don't think she is cappable of working on our marraige I just wanted to know how stupid I am for feeling this way. I mean, becaus I piss myself off by feeling like this. My brain tells me I just need to give up but my heart, or what ever stupid part of me overrides my mind, isn't ready to. Crap.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
No - you are not stupid, and it is not unreasonable to want to forgive someone you love and continue to make a life with her. If it's at all possible you should do it.
The hard part is determining if she's interested in making it work. From our limited view of the situation, it sounds like she's not.
If she shows commitment to making this work, then you should try it. This requires a concrete definition of what that commitment means. My recollection is you tried counseling once. I believe some counselors will also help in the process of making the final decision. Basically, they help each person clearly articulate what it is they want. If that's to end it, the process can help make it much clearer. If that's to try to make it work, they can help come up with a concrete plan both spouses can agree with.
Good luck with whatever happens.
Dagonee
Posted by ctm (Member # 6525) on :
Beatnix, I feel the same way about my husnband, I'm ready and willing to work on our marraige if he is ready and willing. I don't think there is anything wrong or weird with wanting to make things work with the person you love and pledged your life and love to. Marriage is supposed to be about working out your problems and helping each other, not bailing out! I guess what I'm saying is you are feeling the way you are supposed to feel. It's the way I feel, too, so it can't be totally abnormal, right?
ctm
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I've actually mentioned to her about going back to couselor. Even if only to have him involved in helping end things in a peaceful manner. Think I'll try to bring that up again when I go home for lunch this afternoon.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Beatnix, I think we always want to forgive the ones we love. I know that lots of couples have gotten past an affair. However, as Dagonee said, your wife must want to work it out too. It wouldn't hurt anything to have an honest conversation with her and tell her what you want.
space opera
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I was reading a blurb in the paper yesterda about a process that is called Colaborative Divorce. I don't know if they have it in Ohio, but basically it is an arbitration process between a lawyer a social worker and a couple of other experts to figure out what is best for the kids and do it without the muckraking through the courts. They emphasise communication through the whole thing, and say that about 10% of the marriages actually are restored somewhere in the communication process.
This might be something to look into. If she agreed it would open the channels of communication in a more non-confrontational way, but with a deadline of "this is serious" over the top. It is supposed to be cheaper on average than a regular divorce and shorter as well. (I think the numbers they gave was $9K vs $16K and 6 months as opposed to 9-12 months of arbitration.
[ May 25, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
quote:Let me piss a lot of people off. Am I completely stupid for forgiving her and still wanting to make things work? I mean it hurts like hell, I do want to move on if I have to, and I'll never really forgive her, But I'm quick to forget and move on. I try not to live in the past and I know that if she tried I'd still give her a chance. Not that this is going to happen. I don't think she is cappable of working on our marraige I just wanted to know how stupid I am for feeling this way. I mean, becaus I piss myself off by feeling like this. My brain tells me I just need to give up but my heart, or what ever stupid part of me overrides my mind, isn't ready to. Crap.
Nope. Not stupid. completely normal. I've been through the whole deal too. In my case I filed for divorce about 2 weeks ago. That doesn't mean that I don't love her and wouldn't drop the diivorce in a heartbet if I thought there was a chance of us working it out. But she's made it perfectly clear that she has no desire to do so. And so, I had to decide that love isn't enough. Marriage takes 2 to make, but only 1 to break. She broke, and I couldn't rebuild for 2, though I tried for quite a while.
Now it's time to focus on me instead. I'm a lot stronger than I was when this all started, and I have a way to go yet. It is and will be the same for you. It doesn't make it any easier, I know. Nor will it. Not now, not later. But I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that you are not alone and that it will get better.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Thanks for the info. Gonna check out web site right now.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: And so, I had to decide that love isn't enough. Marriage takes 2 to make, but only 1 to break. She broke, and I couldn't rebuild for 2, though I tried for quite a while.
Amen, brother.
beatnix, I think your feelings are completely normal -- even rational. If there IS a chance of putting your marriage back together, I would applaud your doing so. I agree with the advice to go to a counselor if she is willing; and the route AJ recommended otherwise.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
It's about 1:30 am here and I can't sleep. Need to vent so please bear with me.
Tonight my wife came home and finally came clean. She's been seeing this guy since easter. They have been sleeping together for two months (never once using any protection) and she's in love with him. They had been talking about leaving together to go to Indiana, where he is being promoted to, and taking my children with them. He has been to my house numerous time and they have been intimate here. She has spent a weekend away with him, and two of her friends, who I thought I had good relationships with, knew about all this. She's has come clean because he has decided to go back to his fiancee. She is a complete wreck, crying and feeling like a fool for falling for his whole "I really love you and aren't just taking advantage of a vonerable woman" line. On top of all this she is suicidal. Talking about how everyone will be better off without her. While I take a little, and I mean very little, pleasure (however shallow) in the justice of his leaving her I am horribly worried about her. As angry as I am at her and hurt I can't imagine what I would begin to do if she really did take her own life. I worry most for my kids but i couldn't in good conciense stand by and not try to help her.
Awww... crap! I'm a freaking wreck, this is more than any person should have to deal with in one day. Anyways, thanks. Vent over.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
I can't imagine much worse than what you're going through Beatnix. I admire that you're not letting anger be the only side to your feelings here. You'll find your right way through this path, but for now you have my meagre admiration and support.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I don't know if this sucks more or less than before, man.
So far I think you've handled this really well and I'm amazed that you've been able to keep yourself together. I'm not sure that the worst is over but I suspect that you have the stength to get through whatever happens.
I'm in no position to give advice, I'm out of my depth, but I'll do you the only meaningful favour that I can: I'll bump this thread so that people qualified to give advice can do so.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
we should not feel obligated to stay with someone on the credit of who they used to be.
forgiveness does not always equal trust.
pain is addictive. stop it while you still can.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Wow. Suck.
Without knowing anything about your relationship before this all started, and without casting judgemental aspersions on your wife and her actions, I can say that she's obviously going through an extremely self-indulgent time period in her life which has not ended by being dumped.
Being suicidal, talking about how everyone would be better off without her - this is more emotional self-indulgence, and it helps blow everything so vastly out of proportion that she doesn't have to deal with her true sins at this time. Sure, you can be worried about her, etc... But if this was my mate, and I had any desire to repair the very extensive damage done so far, I would first address the fact that they needed to get the hell over themselves. Don't let her be a martyr.
After all, it was your heart that she tried to kill.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I don't know what to say to you that doesn't sound angry and vehement towards her for putting you through this... But she needs to get herself together though... But take care of yourself as well.... And be careful.. Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Oh, well I think I am over the whole "let's work things out stage" The whole doing him in my own house thing has pretty much sealed the deal for me. I actually saw my lawyer today about getting the paper work going to end it all. She then came home and dropped this bomb. I had been pretty sure of it all but it's much worse actually knowing. and don't get me wrong. I don't have that much sympathy. Although I believe I've been pretty understanding, even holding her as she cried about his sorry a$$, I still have been equally harsh in my opinions of her and letting her know those opinions. I haven't screamed and yelled but some of the things I have said have spoken volumes.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I totally agree with Ralphie.
And as for this:
quote: I haven't screamed and yelled
Wow. Seriously, wow! I've gotten much better at dealing with my ex, and almost never yell at him anymore -- but that took at least six months to a year after I got past the always-angry-at-him stage. And he never pulled much of the crap your soon-to-be-ex has!
I really respect your self-control, and inner strength.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
i strongly suggest counseling for yourself if you don't have a solid group of friends around to turn to. i think ending this relationship is not only good for you, but for her, too. to stay with her will only perpetuate the problem.
i hope you find strength and comfort when you least expect it.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
[This post has been deleted for reasons that should be obvious to anyone who has read it.]
[ June 08, 2004, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: KathrynHJanitor ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Lalo, I think you could have stopped after paragraph two or three, and your point would have been sufficiently made. I recommend that you edit the post before someone reads it whose opinion of you still has room to decline.
[ June 08, 2004, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: A Rat Named Dog ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Eddie, shut up.
The fact that beatnix wanted to make his marriage work, does NOT MAKE HIM WEAK. (Or any of the other nasty things you said.) It makes him a very STRONG person, to be willing to work so hard to save his marriage. Especially since there are kids involved!
IOW, what Dog said.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
By the way ... beatnix, I don't envy you what you're going through, but you're impulses are right. You want to leave her, but you want to try to help her at the same time. I think that shows you're a decent guy. So leave her, yes. Don't let her talk you into signing on for more pain and disappointment. But at the same time, you CAN be good to her in other, much smaller ways, and hopefully, she can learn a bit from your example.
If I know people at all, then chances are, she won't learn a thing. But it's a good man that tries, even in the face of a miserable, exploitative person like her. I applaud you.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And again I agree with ARNP. Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
ARNP? Am I now a rat named Poo?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's not what I had in mind, but if you prefer . . . *shrug*
Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
[this post is no longer relevant]
[ June 08, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: Ayelar ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
hmmm... kind of wishing I had read eddies post. Seems to have been very um, interesting?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Being suicidal, talking about how everyone would be better off without her - this is more emotional self-indulgence, and it helps blow everything so vastly out of proportion that she doesn't have to deal with her true sins at this time.
Bingo.
Still doesn't mean she won't irrevocably hurt herself, but yes, it can be a very effective way of not dealing. Overreact, and who can agree with you? It's a way of controlling others' reactions.
The firecracker-in-a-powdercake nature of this is exactly why it's critical to have the help of a trained, objective third person -- counsellor, therapist, what have you. This is way too much to take on yourself, beatnix. (Although a word to the wise -- it can be tempting for you to do something similar, to take on an unrealistic role of putting yourself in the savior/martyr role all over again. Don't do it. Focus on the prosaic and practical, keep your kids safe, keep her as safe as it is possible, and stay the hell away from the dramatics, yourself.)
I'm sorry you have to go through this. Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
quote: stay the hell away from the dramatics, yourself
)
Smart! Doesn't help a bit. I know...I'm full of dramatics. Not one time have they been beneficial in anyway!
(((beatnix19)))
...this to shall pass.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
beatnix,
You're a good person. You are worth having the love of someone and have that love be a positive force in your life. And your children deserve the same. Your wife (soon to be ex-wife) is on a different path. You can't fix her and you certainly can't fix the influence she'll have on your children if you let her. You've proven that you are strong enough to put up with a lot. Now it's time to be strong for those kids and make sure that their lives aren't filled with the kind of instability they must certainly have been experiencing up to now.
And you deserve some stability as well. Home is not supposed to be about strife and walking on egg shells. It's not about trying to WIN the faithfulness of the other person. If the marriage doesn't start from the ASSUMPTION of fidelity, love and mutual respect, it probably shouldn't start at all. But once started, it's a mess.
Things will get better. And you really can't help her if she doesn't first help herself. In the meantime, you need to deal with the situation NOW.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
(((Beatnix))
I feel for you man. I really do. My wife had her boyfriend over to her home for another 2 nights this past weekend, so I know what you are going through.
I second what everyone else has said -- you are a good man, holding up incredibly well in a terrible situation.
If you ever need to, drop me a line -- e-mail's in the profile.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Awww geez. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this Beatnix. What Ralphie said was right on. First this woman cheats on you, and now she actually has the guts to come crying to you because she got burned. Tell her to seek help from someone other than yourself. If you're truly ready to end the marriage, then it's time to start changing the relationship. There needs to be distance between the two of you. Your relationship once you're divorced is going to become a business partnership that produces healthy, happy children. This partnership doesn't mean that you're responsible for your ex.
space opera
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
quote:I recommend that you edit the post before someone reads it whose opinion of you still has room to decline.
Heh. Wow. Classy, Geoff.
Beatnix, I'm not sure why my post was edited -- probably because I used curse words, as in, "I can't believe you're putting up with this kind of shit."
In any case, allow me to reiterate the point I made last night.
Divorce her immediately. She clearly has no respect for your intelligence, feelings, or family -- I mean, my god, when she answers his door and tells you she's not having a sexual relationship with him, I can't imagine you still harbor any delusions of love and respect for you.
If you're feeling the need to be a giver, stand by her, counsel her, help her -- it's a noble thing to do, and I commend you for considering it. But make sure she knows you're divorcing her. I'm cynical enough that I see her latest sob story as a desperate attempt to keep you from taking her for all she's worth -- divorce her now, before subjecting, for one, your children to any more of this chaos. Also, I presume you understand you can't have any more sexual contact with her -- you have the moral high ground right now, don't muddy the waters.
Also, as I said in the last post (and what probably annoyed Rivka), grow a spine. You should have divorced her the instant you knew, for certain, that she was cheating on you and the relationship was unrepairable. That you haven't only contributes to her understanding of you as a weak man to be taken advantage of. End the furious complaining and take action -- otherwise, you'll never win her respect, nor anyone else's. I realize this is tough, man, and I'm more than understanding of your need for counsel and sympathy, but there's only so far you can stretch the sympathy period without taking any actual action.
That said, damn. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. You're in a hard place.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edit:
I should add, I realize you're already taking these actions, and I applaud you for it. I'm just repeating the general gist of my above, deleted post which put these ideas in terms of laudatory sympathy rather than suggestion.
[ June 08, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Lalo ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
This is the second time in 24 hours that someone makes an offensive post, the mods delete it, and the person feels that means it needs to be posted again.
[ June 08, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Oh? Kat, exactly what is offensive about that post?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Actually, that one is much, much better. Nothing, basically.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Hmm. Strange. Granted, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of last night, but as I recall, this is essentially a repeat of what I said in the post previous. Only, of course, sans the occasional curse word. I had no idea mild (and appropriate, given the gravity of the situation) cursing brought down the wrath of the moderator, Geoff, and Rivka.
But then, it may be possible that I phrased my sympathies differently last night and I'm forgetting how I did so.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think the phrasing is different - it wasn't the mild profanity that was offensive about the other one. I only read the other one once. I liked this post, mostly.
[ June 08, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Beatnix,
You need to party. My place, Saturday June 19, 1:00PM.
Let me know.
msquared
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Lalo,
I didn't read your previous post, so I have no idea what others found offensive. However the "grow a spine" comment in this one is a bit harsh. Have you ever been married? Have you ever created children with another person? Years of putting your all into another person who you plan to grow old with is difficult to walk away from, even when the other person has done terrible things. I don't think it would be wise for Beatnix to stay with this woman, and obviously you don't either. However, try to give your support in a more understanding way.
space opera
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote:I didn't read your previous post, so I have no idea what others found offensive. However the "grow a spine" comment in this one is a bit harsh. Have you ever been married? Have you ever created children with another person? Years of putting your all into another person who you plan to grow old with is difficult to walk away from, even when the other person has done terrible things. I don't think it would be wise for Beatnix to stay with this woman, and obviously you don't either. However, try to give your support in a more understanding way.
Well said, Space Opera.
beatnix, I hope everything works out for you for the best, even though it is so hard going through it right now.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
beatnix, I've got nothing to add in the way of advice that someone else hasn't already said, but I feel for you. Just keep hanging in there; things will get better.
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
Ow
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:You should have divorced her the instant you knew, for certain, that she was cheating on you and the relationship was unrepairable.
Beatnix has made his decisions with deference to the side of preserving his marriage, at great emotional cost to himself. It wasn't even a month ago that he wasn't sure the relationship was unrepairable. While unfaithfulness by someone I was dating would probably be a guaranteed deal-breaker, it wouldn't be an automatic marriage-ender for me. This doesn't mean it wouldn't suck, or be emotionally devastating. It means that getting married means being willing to work through horrendous problems that unmarried people can dispose of much more simply.
Beatnix has shown incredible patience and emotional maturity, and has never once lost sight of the fact that his children have a life-defining stake in his actions here. It sounds like he won't be able to save his marriage, and I don't fault him at all for that. I applaud him for the thought and consideration he's given this wrenching decision at great cost to himself.
This isn't about "growing a spine." It's about making a choice a lot more difficult than most people can imagine.
Dagonee Edit: And beatnix, I'm sorry for everything she's put you through. You're a rock.
[ June 08, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Dagonee ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
quote:ME: I recommend that you edit the post before someone reads it whose opinion of you still has room to decline.
quote:LALO: Heh. Wow. Classy, Geoff.
Given the post I was responding to, I find this response incredibly ironic Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
My God!
((((Beatnix))))
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Eddie,
Would you mind sending me an email? I don't have your address. I have some things I'd like to say, but I don't think this thread is really the place.
[ June 08, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: saxon75 ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Taking a quick break form the hospital right now. She took a few pills this afternoon and we've been dealing with that all day. Not enough to hurt herself but enough to scream out for help. Is this a good thing, nope, but she's getting the help she needs and that is important. Does it suck, yep. Am I dealing with it? the best I can. Just another chapter in the soap opera my life has become.
To Lalo - Your spine would have broken 10 times over with what I've dealt with. Mine is frail and weak but still solid. I appreciate you're input but it would be better served if you had any clue as to what you were talking about. Yes, our marriage is most likely beyond any repair and yes the sight of her disgusts me right now but five years ago I took a vow before my family, friends and God to love this woman no matter what. It takes a lot of sacrifice, dedication and sometimes pain to live up to that. Try it once and then we'll talk more.
[ June 08, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Beatnix, just remember to keep taking care of yourself, ok? I'm glad that your wife is now going to get the help she needs, which is hopefully going to take some worry and burdens off your shoulders.
Excellant response to Lalo as well. If that's not proof you have a spine, I don't know what is.
space opera
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
*applause in the beatnix's general direction*
Well said dearheart. You are a good and honorable man with so much strength and patience. Your children will be proud to have a dad like you.
I know I can't understand what you're going through, but please know that I feel for you just the same. (((beatnix)))
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
beatnix, I'm sorry she is making things so very difficult. I am very glad that she is getting the help she needs -- and that it is NOT coming from you.
Good luck.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Wow. There's no words, nor suitable advice, so prayers and good thoughts will have to be enough.
Take care of yourself. Take care of your children. You've done very well at both so far.
Dagonee
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
My error, then. I mistook your longstanding tolerance of her obvious disrespect as a sign of weakness, not strength -- I'm glad to hear I was wrong.
Good on you for standing by her through this.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Beatnix, this will sound horrible, but her taking those pills may be a huge blessing. Being hospitalized means she’s got a better chance of getting the help she needs, and the onus is off you to talk her into it.
I admire the way you’ve handled yourself through this. Keep taking care of yourself and your kids. You’re in my prayers.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
--|-- Take a wild guess who this is aimed at. Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Whoa, dude, I thought I was actually being fairly decent to you there, especially given I haven't yet heard any other side of the story and I've publically admitted error in judgement while submitting a compliment to your Christian forgiveness. How could I have possibly offended you?
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Unless, of course, you mean Dana.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I agree that this is a good thing in the fact that she will get the help she needs. It is much more than I am qualified to handle and I am not really the person she needs inher face about it all right now.
and for those of you who think I'm a fool. you may be right but just for your info. I have a lawyer currently drawing up divorce papers. I am also very, very disgusted with her behavior and doubt that I will ever forgive her for what she has done. But... I come from a family where commitment, loyalty and determination are as much a part of who we are as is the color of our hair. So, although I had suspicions about what was going on those suspicions were never completely verrified until this past week. So in that time that I had, oh what was it? "longstanding tolerance of her obvious disrespect" it wasn't about disrespect it was about hope, giving the benefit of the doubt, love, understanding, ect... In short it was about marraige.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I guess it just sounded a bit sarcastic. Where would I have gotten that idea from? Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
That sounds sarcastic to you?
Where, exactly, would you have gotten that idea from?
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Lalo, it's not like we've ever seen you seriously back down from an expressed opinion before
Believe it or not, there really are consequences to your actions. If you want to behave the way you usually do, fine, but don't be surprised when people don't fall down and kiss your feet when you finally deign to cede a point to them.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
So, if I want to get people to fall at my feet, I need to hold staunchly oppositional opinions and not back down, no matter what, for years? I'm not sure it's worth the payoff, but I'll have to think about it. People falling at my feet would be nice, but it's a lot of work. And you know that once at my feet, they'd just end up getting in the way. . .
Decisions, decisions.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
(((((Beatnix))))) You're strong and courageous, and you deserve happiness. I hope you'll get closer of it soon. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"it was about hope, giving the benefit of the doubt, love, understanding, ect... In short it was about marraige."
So true. Sometimes you can make it through the fire, and sometimes you can't. You tried your best, and you are a good friend to her,even after the pain she has caused you. I am so sorry to hear this whole story, but I hope you can move on and heal.
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