I know there are several agnostics on the forum, so thought I'd ask. My husband and I can both be described as agnostic; he's a total agnostic, I tend to sway between "I just don't know" and "Well, I think there's a God, but He's in everything in nature" kind of thing.
How do those with agnostics handle religion with their children? My kids are 9 and 6. We've always tended to say "some people believe in this, some in that, and you'll make up your mind some day." My oldest says he believes in God but isn't so sure about Jesus. My youngest is Jesus gung-ho due to the influence of a church-going grandmother. Anyway, I'd be very interested in hearing about the experience that other people have had on explaining spirituality to their children.
space opera
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Well, at this point, they probably still believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the whole lot. When they start to realize that those are fantasies conjured up by rumor and perpetuated by imagination, then start asking them about which gods and prophets they decide to believe in.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Honesty and sincerity are the best ingredients when teaching children about religion.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
For the record, my oldest doesn't believe in Santa Claus, etc. I was just wondering how other parents handled this issue. Most parents just raise their kids within their professed religion, however since we're agnostic, it's a bit more complicated.
space opera
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Hmmmm, interesting question. What you said you tell your children sounds very much like what I imagine telling my children as practicing LDS, except it would be more, "Some people believe this, some that. This is what we believe, here's why. You need to find out for yourself what is true and what isn't." Of course we would teach them what we believe as fact and truth, especially in the begining, and it would be done with the hope that they would believe also. But I imagine when they are old enough to think for themselves, we will encourage them to find their own source of faith rather than just relying on ours.
As agnostics, do you very much wish your children to be agnostic also? If you don't mind either way, then what you are doing sounds fine. If you do care, I imagine you will do very much like what we do, teaching them what you believe as fact and truth, that it is a fact that you cannot know there is a God and that is the "right" or "best" way to view the universe.
Oh, and by the way, we have never told our children that there is a Santa Claus, and Easter Bunny, or a Tooth Fairy. We do tell them that there is a Divine Savior though. We try to keep the line between fact and fiction clear, and to us, that is a fact.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
We've always gone with the "this is what some people believe" attitude. When they've had questions about specific faiths we try to represent those faiths with respect, and when they've had questions about specific scriptures or stories we try to respond with "here's what the Christian bible says" or "the story in the Koran says" and so forth.
My wife is sort of a lapsed Methodist -- she firmly believes everything in red in the New Testament -- and I'm an apathetic agnostic (apatheist), but we have no problem with either of our sons following up with religious beliefs that call to them.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Can you explain the 'in red' part of your comments, Chris?
All of my New Testament is in black ink . . .
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Once upon a time I had a copy of the Bible with all the words of Christ in red. I wonder what happened to that Bible. . . .
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
That's it. The copy I grew up with has all of Jesus' direct quotes in red ink.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
That is So interesting. I never knew there was such a thing!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I grew up Mormon, too, but I've seen hundreds of bibles that have the words of Jesus in red in the new testament. Then again, I grew up in the south in areas with very few Mormons. Many Gideon bibles (like those that used (?) to be in hotel rooms) use this convention. I think it's pretty common in bible printing, at least outside of the LDS church.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Extremely common. I've sometimes had a hard time finding a version I wanted without the red printing.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
SpaceOpera,
I struggle with this whole question. I was baptized Catholic on my mother's deathbed. I was raised Methodist by my grandmother, who had and has the most rock solid faith of anyone I have ever personally known. There was never a question in my mind. At the same time, I was always fascinated by other religions. I wondered how there could be so very many.
When I was thirteen, my dad remarried, and I went through with the Catholic rituals of Communion and Confirmation. I was very into being Catholic, as I cavorted with my Jewish atheist high school friends.
In college, I took religion classes when I could, and loved to find all the similarities. I came up with the idea that there was one god, who showed himself in different ways to different peoples. It made perfect sense to me.
I was married Catholic and both children are christened Catholic. We were all set. Then, the letters started.
We had just bought a house, and had two children. We were very strapped. They kept hounding us relentlessly for money until finally it was the last straw. I got a letter saying that if I did not give money by a certain date, I would no longer be a member of the parish. OK, then. See ya.
I went to a Congregational church with my friend's family. Their son and daughter are the same ages as my kids. They are each other's best friends. Their family has been in that church for ages. (75 years or so) I felt welcome, and I felt like I was home. I remember sitting there, tears rolling down, because of the familiar warmth of a Protestant service.
In the end, I think I am a Methodist. I will probably end up back in the Methodist church. Whenever I say the Our Father, I say the whole thing, unlike the Catholics, and when the Congo minister says "debts" I have to stop myself from saying "trespasses."
So, what do I tell my kids?
I tell them I don't know for sure, but that I practice in a certain way, and I make sure I am nice to people outside the church.(The Catholics in our church in Phoenix would run you down in a heartbeat if you got in the way of them leaving the parking lot after mass.) But I feel so hypocritical. I want to be for them what my grandmother was to me, but I can't. I don't have her solid faith.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I think that is part of my dilemma as well - I want to be a spiritual leader for my children. But when I can't define my own spirituality, how can I help them define theirs?
Religion is such a slippery thing. I was raised in the Christian tradition, but what I really want is for everyone to be right. I know that might sound like a cop-out, but the God I picture doesn't care about the differences in religions. But that's where my Christian background snaps its teeth, b/c according to it, if you haven't accepted Jesus, then you're going to hell. Yikes.
space opera
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I was raised Catholic, but my dad was nonpracticing for a long time. I think he was a deist, maybe. Not really sure. Then he converted to Catholicism and got baptized when I was a kid. Then my parents stopped going to church altogether. He later referred to himself as an ex-convert (or ex-con). My mom studied religion when she went back to school when I was young. She had faith then, I think, but didn't pass it down. I think maybe she still does, but considers religion to be intensely private and not something you talk about to your kids or to anyone at all. Not sure about this either. I think she thinks God leaves the world to run on its own. Maybe she feels like he's abandoned the world. Honestly I would not dare to broach that topic with her. I am positive she would get very angry at me no matter how carefully I tried to ask.
We went to Methodist vacation bible school with some neighbors a few times as kids. It was fun. And I went to a Methodist camp in the summer. I think my earliest religious experiences were here, perhaps.
We had religious freedom in our house. That was the most important thing of all. We were allowed to think what we thought, and when we got to be teenagers and started discussing philosophy, religion, science, metaphysics, and so on, then when Daddy tried to overrule what we said, she stood up for us and insisted that we could think whatever we thought, and that it was okay to say what we thought out loud. I am profoundly grateful for that. When Daddy got angry one time at my atheism, Mama said, "a lot smarter people than you have believed that through the years". She pointed out that it was a valid belief, and not subject to being dismissed out of hand.
So my most important tenet of family faith is freedom of thought. I say the same thing to people of all religious beliefs. Let your children think what they think. It's hard sometimes, when you think you know the answers, not to get angry or upset at your kids if they find different answers. But they are themselves. You are allowed to discuss, persuade, cajole, and influence, but you can not dictate. All you can do by trying is drive a wedge between you.
A footnote: Mom was furious when I converted to LDS. <laughs> Contradictions. But her policy of freedom of thought had its effect, regardless. By that time it was way too late to change. I was too used to thinking for myself. I'm very grateful I have the mother I do. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Thank you, AK. That is the mother I guess I am now, even though I want to be the grandmother I will never be.
Edit: In other words, it is good to know that it is not necessary to have a strong, unshakable faith to jump off from, handed down from someone else, but that you can find it on your own.
[ May 23, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote: my dad was nonpracticing for a long time.
I've got our D&D campaign on the brain. I read, "my dad was necromantic for a long time."
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Elizabeth, some of us Congregationalists say "trespasses" as well. That's just that particular minister's preference. I like the "trespasses" version myself, and I think that you should say it YOUR way, even if the minister is saying it another way; I don't think that on this particular point the difference is meaningful.
-Bok
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I kind of let my kid make up her own religious beliefs. She gets Christianity from friends and family, so I consider it my duty to fill her in on other sorts of beliefs, such as reincarnation and scepticism. I answer her questions as honestly as possible. When she talks about religious ideas, I try to never mock her or degrade her ideas. When she said that God came from germs, I smiled and said, "I don't know; I wasn't there."
I just try to present as many points of view as possible and let her explore them. The ones that make sense to her will be the ones she incorporates into her own belief system.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Bok, The "trespasses" thing isn't something that bothers me, it just makes me realize how ingrained it is in my head. I don't mind saying "debts," I just honestly forget every time, so I do the mumble thing.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
We try to keep the line between fact and fiction clear, and to us, that is a fact.