Exactly, just like the topic says, a teacher at my school showed the Al-Qaeda video of a man's head being SAWED off. It was all over the news on Friday, we even had a discussion of it in class. Apparently, the teacher ,who's name I dont know, had his students watch the video saying "This is why there should be no wars". I understand why the teacher did what he did, but I just don't agree with it. Some of his students I heard, were seriously traumatized at seeing such video content, and visits to the school psychologist are recomended. I beleive the teacher was fired, and they're banning anything having to do with the incident, or the video itself, from all the district schools. District officials are even installing more internet protection so that students cannot access anything reguarding the video on the internet, such as sites that offer it for download.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
There is a difference between censoring concocted obscenity like pornography and violence in videogames, and then censoring what is going on in a life-and-death struggle for democracy in the middle east. Everyone should have the option to see that video, especially at school which is probably the last bastion of hope against political and civic apathy.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
For the record, it was a bunch of Iraqi insurgents using an al-qaeda web site. I just hate seeing the two separate threats mixed into one.
But it's crazy that the teacher showed that without parental notification, or at least letting kids opt out of it.
-Bok
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
I agree with you, it should be made available for everyone, but I don't think a school is a place to show such things, at least unedited. The students had to see a man, suffering as he died. His head was SAWED off through the back of his neck. I think you suffer less, and you die quicker, if it's from the front. The actual thing wouldn't have been so bad, if it hadn't been real, you see people die in horrible ways at the movies ever freakin day, but to see such suffering, and know it isn't acting, that its really suffering, now thats a diffrent story.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Everyone should have the option to see that video,
The question is -- was this an option? Or just a forced audience? Did the kids not even realize he was going to show the whole thing in it's entirety? Did they have a chance to opt out? What aged kids -- are we talking high school? Parent should still have some input at that age regarding what their kids are exposed to in the classroom setting.
FG
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
I don't think showing the video was necessary in order to teach the kids about what happened. However, restricting internet access is not necessary either - why stop kids who WANT to find out more details?
quote:For the record, it was a bunch of Iraqi insurgents using an al-qaeda web site. I just hate seeing the two separate threats mixed into one.
Actually, the CIA said it thought it was Al-Zarqawi - Al Qaeda's most prominent figure in Iraq - who did the beheading.
Posted by PaladinVirtue (Member # 6144) on :
"...and know it isn't acting, that its really suffering, now thats a diffrent story."
Welcome to the real world. Makes the brutality of the situation and our opponents pretty clear dosn't it? I just watched he video myself for the first time literally five minutes ago. And it is not very fun. I felt that I had no right to discuss the topic without viewing it.
Having seen it I can now say that I have no problem with allowing students to view the video if they desire. And making it available to them in school setting is understandable and even encouraged as long as there is discussion about what it means. That video is going to create a lot of emotion and I think talking about it will help students cope with their feelings of disgust, sorrow, and anger. I would rather they watch in supervised setting and then discuss it.
That being said, I also think that to make them watch it as part of class curriculum would be a bit over the top. I think if the student feels they are mature enough to watch the video then let them do as they wish b/c if they don't at school they will later at home.
Pal
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Tres, that may be true, I only watched the initial reports, which claimed it was an insurgency group that used an al-qaeda site.
I apologize for that.
-Bok
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I have to admit that I'm curious about the teacher's motivation here. The fact that he accompanied it with the statement "This is why there should be no wars" makes me think he was more interested in promoting his own anti-war stance than beginning an open discussion of the situation as a whole.
space opera
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Teachers have to send forms home if they want to show an R-rated video in most public schools in this country.
Is it just me, or does this video qualify as R-rated?
Keep in mind there are plenty of 'true-to-life' movies that are R-rated -- i.e. Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan -- that are often shown in schools. Teachers STILL need parental permission.
Honestly, I know that my mom would've been outraged if my sister or I had been forced to watch this.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Alt, I'm assuming your in Tacoma, due to This New Story about what you describe.
..hm...a graphics arts class... it certainly was graphic.
but it wasn't even a history or government class..
FG
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Actually it wasn't there. This happened at my school, Grossmont High School in El Cajon, CA. San Diego County, the School district is also named Grossmont, and the teacher didn't just show a clip, he showed the entire beheading.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Ah... now I see this from the article I posted:
quote: The Parkland high school isn't the only campus where students and teachers have watched the video. Teachers at three Southern California high schools were removed from their classrooms for showing it. One of them, an English teacher in Santa Ana, invited students to gather around his desk and watch the footage on his laptop computer.
So apparently this has happened at several schools.
Farmgirl
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Yeah, so its actaully going on nationally...
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Did anyone else see "Highways are Dieways" in high school? One scene showed a man getting crushed under a heavy cement structure while working in construction. Then they sort of squeegee'd him out. It's terrible, but I've seen some pretty graphic stuff in school.
Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
I'm in my mid 30's and I know I'd be traumatised by this and so haven't watched it.
I don't agree with you PaladinVirtue - I don't need to see it happen to feel I can talk about the incident - I know this was wrong - it was evil and the description I saw on the news, in papers and here on hatrack is enough information that I need.
I choose not to watch fictional movies with extremely violent content as I don't find it entertaining at all and I know my own limits.
I can't believe anyone feels they have the right to force someone else to watch something so violent without giving them the option not to watch. I also agree with the comments that it was wrong that parents weren't given the option to disagree with their children watching. Surely if a child felt they wanted to watch it a parent would know best if they were emotionally stable enough to handle it.
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Well said cochick. I do feel that if i would've been in that teacher's class while viewng the video, I would've burst out crying because it would have simply been too much. However, I can watch extremely violent movies because I can deal with the fact that its not real. Its only food colouring or cranberry juice. Looking at something as real as that video was however, is a completely diffrent matter, then I wouldn't be able to even pray so that his death be quick, because looking at it right there, knowing that it happened in such a violent and painful way, I just wouldn't be able to take it.
EDIT: BTW,
quote:then let them do as they wish b/c if they don't at school they will later at home.
yeah, thats true, but it would be those that wanted to and they felt emotionally strong enough to handle it. What ever our parents don't let us do, we do it behind their backs.
[ May 17, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Altįriėl of Dorthonion ]
Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
As an adult, the audio of the incident was disturbing enough for me. As a father, I would be quite upset if such a thing were shown to my children of any age. A school has no place in showing such a disturbing incident and cannot adequately provide emotional support and guidance that would be needed before and after such a video.
In addition, schools should in no way provide un-filtered internet access to students. Such access should be limited to the scope of their curriculum.
Posted by PaladinVirtue (Member # 6144) on :
"...I don't need to see it happen to feel I can talk about the incident..."
I think you mistake me cochick. I don't mean to say that one can not talk about the incident without viewing it. I mean to say that one can't effectivly discuss specifically how "graphic" it is without watching it. For instance the images I saw were very fuzzy and I was relieved not to see better resolution. I do agree that it is not necessary for someone to watch it to discuss the fact that is deplorable.
It is very disturbing and there is no way someone should be forced to watch it. But if a young adult chooses to, then I think it is their choice.
My hope is that it will have a positive effect on those who choose to watch it. The next time they watch some gorry action flic they might take second to reflect that these things do happen in the real world and it is not at all entertaining. And that they will better understand fanatiscm of the people involved in this conflict.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
"This is why there should be no wars".
Sure. And why people should all be nice to each other and plant flowers. Don't use it as a demonstration of man's cruelty to man, or how such extremism pollutes the dignity of man while violently polarizing its audience, or how terrorists use such images to spread their message, or how dehumanizing your enemy leads you to abominable acts, or any of a number of other worthwhile messages. I'm bothered by this teacher showing the video without parental permission or the option to opt out, I'm annoyed that he used it for such a simplistic and unrealistic message. If you're going to throw aeway your career, choose your words a bit more carefully.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Ugh....
I don't think that video should be banned, I won't watch it but it's important that SOMEONE watches it, but that teacher should have either given the students the option of leaving the room, or asking the parents.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
having seen (in high school and college) two movies about the dangers of driving carelessly or drunk (in high school I got upset about the image of a semi tractor with steel pipes rammed through it from the load on the trailer because my dad was a truck driver at the time)
and
having chosen to view neither "The Passion of the Christ" or the video of Nick Berg's head being cut off because I don't need to have those images in my head
I would say that the beheading video does not belong in the schools - definitely not without parental consent, but I think it shouldn't be there at all. Parents should be able to monitor their kids - at least until age 18 - and make this decision.
Honestly, I think the news is graphic enough for a classroom discussion - there are news channels that showed part of the video but cut off just before the beheading.
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Yeah, that was a better way to go. I completely agree with that. What I believe the teacher meant with his comment, was that such awful acts are commited when theres a war, so we should do anything we can to prevent such things from happening as much as we can. Horrible things do happen every day, but not to such a magnitude and for diffrent reasons. I heard, and my mother agrees with this, that they did it in response to the way the U.S. treated its war prisoners. They were humiliated and tortured and the terrorist, or whoever did the beheading, wanted blood for such acts. I'm not saying its true, I'm just saying what I think is true from the newscasts, gossip from school and news websites.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Wikipedia had an interesting section in its article on Nick Berg.
quote: Al Jazeera, in an article entitled Bloggers doubt Berg execution video, and other websites, have alleged inconsistencies in the video, including:
cutting a person's artery in the neck while the heart is pumping results in the release of large amounts of blood. Lack of bleeding, and lack of movement from Berg during decapitation following a video jump, suggest that he was already dead before the decapitation occurred.
Berg's wearing of a U.S.-issue prison jumpsuit
Western posture of the executioners
light-coloured skin of the executioners
the executioner claiming to be Al-Zarqawi (whose appearance is known) never removed his mask, and apparently lacked Al-Zarqawi's tattoos and prosthetic leg
the voice heard reading a statement, which the CIA identified as Al-Zarqawi, is alleged to use the wrong dialect to be Al-Zarqawi, and possibly not even a native speaker of Arabic. There have also been reports that al-Zarqawi died before the Berg murder.
the reader oddly keeps flipping pages back to the same page he had just been on instead of turning to the next page.
the room in which the decapitation takes place matches the appearance of Abu Ghraid prison
As a result, conspiracy theories are forming suggesting U.S. complicity in the death. As of 16th May 2004 no such theory is yet well established.
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Whatever it was, it was still not appropriate for highschool students. Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
Bulls**t! I think it's very appropriate. tell me WHY it's inappropriate to see the consequences of war. do you wish for kids to be more desensitized than they already are?
[ May 17, 2004, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Ben ]
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
It is not inappropriate to see the consequences or war, it is inappropriate to usurp parental discretion in a public institution involving minors. Bull**** yourself!
Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
This was not a consequence of war! People have choices and they choose to do this.
The situation in Iraq was used by these animals as an excuse to carry out an appalling inhuman act.
They will use anything as an excuse because they are murderers. If it hadn't been in Iraq it would have eventually happened somewhere else whether there was a conflict or not. They take advantage of any situation they can.
But 9/11 shows that they don't need provocation.
PaladinVirtue - I'd like to apologise - my statement did come across very judgementally and I'm sorry - I do understand you're viewpoint.
Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
That's why its inappropriate Ben.
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
quote: The situation in Iraq was used by these animals as an excuse to carry out an appalling inhuman act.
shit! you are right! i forgot that we have been hella civil through this entire thing. sorry, won't happen again.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
You would think some of the teachers would read about others getting canned for it, and choose not to do it in their district..
FG
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
ben, What is your point?
quote: shit! you are right! i forgot that we have been hella civil through this entire thing. sorry, won't happen again.
Us acting like "pigs" does not make a beheading on camera any less barbaric.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Everyone should see the video so we know who we're fighting.
Maybe we'd spend a little less time fretting about naked prisoners and a little more time rooting these people out.
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
you are right it does not. but us showing photos and videotapes of us abusing THEIR people is ok in schools. but we show one of "our own" being brutally murdered (yes it was a disgusting act), and it's out of line?
[ May 19, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Ben ]
Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
I haven't heard of the pictures of prisoners abused being shown in schools, either. We had just a discussion over the issue, over both the prison abuse and beheading. We knew what had happened, but didn't see the need to watch it.
RRR, how reliable is the site you got that off?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I would be at my school board headquarter's demanding the resignation and the apology of any teacher that showed such a thing to my child without my permission.
The teachers have overstepped their bounds - did no one read what Kasie said? Most schools require permission slips to show an R rated film, in what way can they possibly justify showing such a horrific event without parental notification and permission?
I didn't let my oldest child see Passion of the Christ, even though she asked me to. Why? Because it disturbed me greatly, the images of flesh being torn out and blood soaking into stones is not something I want in her head right now. When she's older and can make a more informed choice of her own, that's one thing. But while she's still a minor and under my care and protection, I expect the schools to honor my wishes and not show her anything that can haunt her and give her nightmares.
Anybody heard of PTSD? Just the viewing of something horrific like that can cause it. Especially in a young person who is unprepared for what they're going to see.
Is the school going to provide therapeutic counselling free of charge?
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote:but us showing photos and videotapes of us abusing THEIR people is ok in schools. but we show one of "our own" being brutally murdered (yes it was a disgusting act), and it's out of line?
Yes, but there is a qualitative difference between the types of abuse. Seeing a living human have his head sawed off is much different then naked guys stacked in a pyramid.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
there is also a difference between a still picture and a video with sound. If a picture is worth a thousand words ... how much is a video worth?
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Yeah, thats true. I agree with all of you. However, I still don't see why either side did what they did. You don't just saw off a man's head because some of your people were stacked naked and made fun of. And yet, you don't just stack people naked because they killed a man, right? Its just hypothetically speaking as if the events had varied in their order. Really, I just cannot see how the hell those people thought. Both sides. What was in their head??? All the more reason to question their : "Nation under God" thingy, or their " We do it for Allah" thingy. Neither God nor Allah would allow such atrosities to happen in their names. That is what I call HYPOCRISY.
NATION UNDER GOD....my ass it is.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote: Neither God nor Allah would allow such atrosities to happen in their names.
If God or Allah exist, apparently they DO let people commit atrocities in their name.
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)