Okay, for those who don't know, about two and half years ago, I was hit by a truck while backpacking through Germany. I spent a week in a hospital in Fussen, and I can say that without a doubt I love German doctors, German railway men, and nice German women of a certain age who read of an American girl traveling alone in the hospital and spend the next three days taking care of her.
I do not love German insurance companies.
The truck that hit me was a commercial vehicle driven by someone who, in the opinion of the policemen who filled out the report, was driving inappropriately. After I was released, we (and by we I mean my dad) paid the hospital bills and tried later to collect from the driver's company and insurance company. They laughed at us.
I had moved right after that event, and some other various life events (see the endless personal threads on Hatrack) captured my attention, so I only paid a little attention to this. I did ask my dad for a lawyer, who asked his sister-in-law, who asked her brother, who said that'd be fine. My uncle-in-law is this huge international attorney and litigates in Germany.
Apparently, he's busy.
Too busy to pay attention to me, and it's been a year. I've never talked to him in person, and I've never received any communication from him that didn't go "I forgot all about that, but I'll get right on it." So, last week, after being ignored completely for the fifth month in a row, I set out to find another one. Bob bless www.lawyers.com.
It's Germany, right? So I need a German lawyer. Fortunately, everyone and their three-year-old speak English over there, which was a bummer while traveling but quite jouyous while broken. Yesterday I sent an e-mail to about a dozen firms explaining my situation and asking for representation and terms. This morning I got two responses back.
I have considered waiting for other responses, but at this point, quick turn around time is a serious plus. Now I need to decide between the two, and this is where Hatrack comes in. What do you think?
(P.S. Do not worry about offering advice and being held responsible for it. I'm just looking for suggestions here - I'll make final blahblahblah... )
I
quote:Dear Madam,
We acknowledge receipt of your inquiry and confirm that we are able to represent you in this case.
Our fees are subject to German federal regulations and depend on the amount you are claiming for. Normally, the insurance will pay our fees, if they pay the amount itself.
We will give you an estimate of our fees, when we know the details of the case.
Please be aware that the case is of some urgency because the prescription period is 3 years, starting August 2001.
You can send me the documents by e-mail as a pdf-file.
Yours sincerely
Dr. Grayer Howell III
II
quote:Dear Mr. Pilkington,
Thank you for your e-mail of April 20, 2004.
We would like to inform you that insurance law is one of our areas of practice and we therefore could represent your legal interests.
The charges for our activities are based on the time spent in dealing with the case. Time spent will include: meetings with the client and others, any time spent travelling and waiting, considering, preparing and working on papers, correspondence, conferences among fee earners here, making and receiving telephone calls. The hourly fee amounts to EUR 200,00. We will also charge any out of pocket costs/expenses for outside services (courier, travelling expenses, hotel accommodation, etc.) at cost.
In case of mandating us we will send you a written agreement on legal fees. Furthermore we will need a retainer for our fees in the amount of EUR 2.500,00.
In addition to this you will to have to pay court costs, which we will have to pay simultaneously with bringing the claim to court.
Under German law your claims for damages respecting your accident are subject to a limitation of 3 years. As the accident has already happened in August 2001 we will have to file the claim by the end of July the latest. Please be aware that under German law the compensation for immaterial damages (pain and suffering) does not reach by far the compensation usually paid in USA. However, it depends on the damages you have suffered.
Please let us know if you would like to assign us to represent you legal interests.
Best regards,
Elizabeth Catherine Stuart Attorney at Law
[ April 21, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Um, why are you Mr. Pilkington? Is there something you aren't telling us?
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I'd go definately for the second firm. Their conversational english isn't so good, but their legal english is fine.
Plus, as a lawyer-to-be (we are a horrible bunch. Really. All the lawyer jokes are justified.) the more details as to fees, costs etc the better.
Either way - I hope it works out for you Kat!
[ April 21, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: imogen ]
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Kat, an elder from my mission is either in law school or just finished with law school in Germany. Do you want to try to contact him? I'm going to email him a link to this thread and see what he says. He's a great guy. Let me know.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I hate this whole thing. I was thinking along the lines of a threatening letter and my medical expenses. Is there is any way I can choose the Minimum Lawyer Package instead of the Deluxe Package?
--
aretee - Yes! That would be great!
[ April 21, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Hmm.. tough choice since you can't actually meet these people.
If you were having to go on the strength of their reply letter alone to make your decision, I would also favor the second one.
Farmgirl
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I guess I'm worried the whole legal fees and court costs and everything. I mean, all I want is them to pay the medical bills, but if it costs a ton to get that, then I'd need enough to pay the legal bills, too. That's makes it enough that my idea for the Minimum Lawyer Package probably isn't going to work. Seriously, this would be so much cheaper for the insurance company to simply not ignore me.
[ April 21, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
kat, I think the second firm sounds considerably stronger. However, the VERY hefty fees in advance -- all court costs PLUS a $2900 retainer -- have me worried.
Have you CALLED your uncle? Some people simply ignore E-mail.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes. In the last two months, I've called three times and left three messages. No response.
---
I'm worried about that, too. I mean, that's about half the medical bills. And she doesn't say anything about the insurance company paying that.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Write both back, ask for all of the information that the second one gave you that the first one didn't and vice versa. With the second ask about covering court costs from the settlement.
I suspect why the lawsuit actually needs to be filed is because, clearly nasty-grams aren't going to do the job if it has been three years. Both of them did give you the same time being of essence thing so it does look like time is critical.
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, good idea!
*goes to write*
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I can also see requiring fees in advance simply because it is an international thing and they only know you from one e-mail and don't want you to flake on them. However paying in advance also allows for more of a possible scam. So I don't know which one I'd go with.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I guess you will also need to give a few more details to the first people to get the fee estimate. But I would at the same time tell them that you are considering two firms and more full pricing information on their part will help with the choice. The amount you need to pay up front being a greatly deciding factor.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I also wonder if the Herr Doktor, is more established with his practice than the other woman, just from the tone of the letters and the assurance that they are good enough that they can get the insurance company to pay the legal costs.
Still don't know which one I'd choose though. I'm mulling.
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I figured out why I like the first one better, despite the lower amount of details in it.
1. It isn't addressed to Mr. Pilkington 2. He isn't specific about the fees, but he does say it will depend on the amount being sought. That makes sense. 3. I agree with Banna that the slightly casual attitude is either a sign of sloppiness or sheer confidence.
I looked up the firms. Here's how they compare.
I
quote:Statement of Practice: Maritime, Admiralty, Transport, Commercial, Company, Corporation, Tax, Unfair Competition, Insurance, Bank and Administration Law. General Practice, EEC Law, Real Estate. Notary's Office. Trademarks, Copyrights, Designs, IT Law. Litigation.
Year Established: 2001
Firm Profile: Boggle Quidditch and Squeak's Munich Office was established in 2001. It covers all areas of commercial law with special emphasis on transport, labour law, information and technology and competition law.
Firm Size: 26
Languages: German, English, French, Spanish and Portuguese.
Dr. Grayer Howell III (Member) born 1959; admitted, 1988. Education: Universities of Bochum, Geneva and Munich. Member: German-French Lawyers Association. Languages: English, French, Italian. Practice Areas: Labour Law; Company Law; Wills; Successions; Competition Law.
Statement of Practice: Copyright, Intellectual and Industrial Property, Media and Entertainment, Financing (Media, Construction and Real Estate), Banking, Unfair Competition and Antitrust, Corporate, Labour, Mergers and Acquisitions, Trademarks, Securities, Privatization and Restitution (East Germany), International Investment and Trade Matters, International Contracts, Arbitration and Litigation, Company Law, Commercial Law, Internet Law, Publishing Law, Real Estate, Construction Law, Building Law.
Firm Profile: Our activities are centered on corporate and commercial law. In the foreground: advising domestic and foreign companies active in the media field, more particularly as regards films, television and publishing, entertainment, broadcasting, internet and telecommunications, as well as in the building and real-estate, banking, insurance, aviation, mechanical engineering, plant engineering and furniture industries. We advise private clients on matters of inheritance and family law.
Firm Size: 58
Elizabeth Catherine Stuart (Associate) admitted, 1996, Germany. Practice Areas: Civil Law.
Hmm....the first looks like a newer firm but a more experienced lawyer.
[ April 21, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Boggle Quidditch and Squeak? Really? Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*nods solemnly*
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
I wouldn't go with either firm. They both state that their primary focus is in commercial and corporate law (which is what I have mostly done). Try to find one that has more expertise in personal injury, etc.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
How do I find one in Germany?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Sara!
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Go to martindale.com . You can search by both location and area of practice, as well as many other criteria. I've only ever used it for U.S. firms, but it has international listings. On a casual search for personal injury attorneys or firms in Germany I got twelve hits.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I like #1 even better now. Plus while they may specialize in corporate, they do have "insurance" listed as one of their specialties. He also seems more reasonable speaking to a private person, than the other one, which seems like it is discussing a corporate contract.
I know they may not be likely to do it but you could ask for a referral if it isn't in their general specialty areas.
AJ (And how could you dislike someone with the name Quidditch?)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
mack, your proposal is on my list of reading once I get off work. (I've been doing crazed shifts, and I haven't been able to focus on anything remotely serious before today.)
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*hug* okay. I'm just excited about the datasets arriving today. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
You are awesome.
I'll email you after dinner.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Kat, did your parents try contacting the uncle-in-law? (Just curious.)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My dad said he would, but that was a long time ago, and nothing's happened. He never said anything.
I did call my aunt (the guy's sister and my dad's brother-in-law), and my uncle-in-law told her the same thing he's told me (So embarassed, Get right on it), but still nothing happened.
*frustrated* I know I'm capable of taking care of myself, but it's a good thing, right?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Well I think you need to do something with the statue of limitations looming. Maybe you could call the uncle-in-law again and say that the statute of limitations is running out?
But I think you should look at U ofUs links and send out a couple more e-mails. You can't depend on other people, particularly family in a lot of cases to look out for your rear.
Woohoo! Okay, with that link and LawGuy's link, I'm sending out another dozen or so more e-mails. Hopefully will get an answer tomorrow.
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Bastards. Blood-sucking lawyers. Shame on them all. I hope I'm never hit with a truck.
[ April 21, 2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Altįriėl of Dorthonion ]
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
And, although I AM a lawyer, and sorely distressed, nay, wounded, by your comments about my profession, I also hope you are never hit with a truck. But if you are, I hope you have the good fortune to come across a very good lawyer to champion your cause. Because you can be darn sure the other side will have them.
[ April 21, 2004, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: UofUlawguy ]
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Sorry if I offended you by going with the stereotype, but hey, I wanted to be a lawyer when I was in 1st grade, and many people have told me I'd be great at it, I just can't seem to shut up until I clear my point. v.v But I grew up and now I want to be an animator in Japan..now THATS a paradox...
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Kat, I was sure you had replaced the law firm names with random words. I don't think either of those really exists. Reminds me of that spam someone posted this morning.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Okay, I got two responses from the round of e-mails sent yesterday. Once again, I like the first one better. Maybe because that's not the one that freaked me out by mentioning $300 an hour to even look at anything.
III
quote:Dear Mrs. Pilkington
thanking for your request I first have to point out that it is necessary for me to look at the police report and the refusing statement given by the drivers insurance at least to give a rough opinion on the results of possible actions.
According to our law there is a strict liability for the car driver and his insurer as long as the accident was not unavoidable for the driver. So it depends on the circumstances whether it is recommendable to go to court in case the insurer can not be brought to change his mind.
To check the police or the probably existing court file I do need a power of attorney with your signature in original which I can prepare for you of course. So it could accelerate the matter if you could give me the essantial papers mentioned in yuor e.mail by fax.
Thereafter i will tell you as soon as possible how the chances are and describe the cost risk.
Be advised that there is a time bar restriction of 3 years to be obeyed, starting with the accidend and interrupted /delayed during the diskussion with the insurer until his refusion at the latest.
Waiting for your answer I remain with best regards,
Albus Van Arcadia
IV
quote:Dear Mrs. Piklington,
Thank you for your inquiry. Of course we are able to help you in this matter. At first you should know that your claims will be time barred 3 years after the accident. After becoming time barred your claim will not be enforceable anymore. That means that we have to start our work immediately. My hourly rate is EURO 240 plus VAT. Further details you will find in the enclosed draft of the fee agreement.
If you agree please send us your address and all documents you mentioned in your mail. We fill in the details in our agreement and sent it back to you including an advance note of fees. After signing the agreement and paying the advance note of fees, we will start our work.
Yours sincerely
RA. Epexegetic
Both of them got the marital status wrong, but that could be a cultural thing so I'm ignoring it.
Here's how their backgrounds stack up:
III
quote:Albus Van Arcadia Practice Areas: Advertising and Marketing; Criminal Law; Labour and Employment; Medical Malpractice; Tenancy Law; Personal Injury; Property
Admitted: 1979, Hamburg
Education: University of Hamburg
Member: Hamburg Bar Association.
Biography: Author: "Vertraglicher Abschluß des Versorgungsausgleiches."
Languages: German and English
Anyone have any idea what that book he wrote is? Plus, good firm web site. Nice looking, but with an English version, and it was possible to skip the annoying intro.
IV
quote:RA Epexegetic Practice Areas: Personal Injury; Product Liability; Professional Liability; Transportation; Insurance Law
Admitted: 1993, Germany
Education: University of Bonn
Languages: German and English Note: I went to his web site. Beautiful. Lovely. Great colors, beautiful Flash opening sequence, and nice navigation. No search, no English version, and everything is in Flash and you can't highlight and copy anything. I'm irritated as a Usability tech. Somehow, I'm not surprised they are concerned about the money foremost.
I'm a bit concerned that there is doubt as to the veracity of the Firm names. It's a different country - there are some cultural differences, I'm sure. I'm chalking the names up to that. I promise not to giggle on the phone.
[ April 22, 2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Albus seems like the best one so far. He speaks to the specifics of your case. It looks like he specializes in asserting individual rights -- it seemed like most of the lawyers that came up on the martindale search I did were corporate types who were offering their services to companies.
And I like that he's an established, local lawyer [went to Univ., practices and is part of the local bar association] -- seems like he has the right size of firm for your case.
How close is Hamburg to where your accident happened?
I can't translate the book title. The words are too technical for my limited German.
EDIT: It was just the final word that was giving me trouble. The book seems to be about divorce cases -- specifically how to get fair retirement benefits for one of the parties when a couple divorces.
[ April 22, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Zalmoxis ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm not sure where Hamburg is in Germany. The accident took place a couple hours from Munich, twenty minutes by bus from the Austrian border.
I like Albus, too. I just wrote back and sent him all the files I have. Bob bless copy machines that can scan, create PDF files from hard copies, and then e-mail them to me.
Albus does seem more established and somehow having less to prove, which I'm good with. It's an appeal to my own prejudices that his firm, Democritus Laudat Aquinus, has a good web site. Based on experiences with programmers, usable web sites means the creators are thinking about the customer. Pretty but useless web sites means the creators are thinking about themselves.
[ April 22, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I used to hate all lawyers. Today, I love at least one of them.
I can't give details, (pending case and all that) but the person who needed the lawyer is a witness, not a defendant or complainant, and yet the witness was being shall we say, intimidated by the defendant who is a very large, very rich, very powerful entity. The lawyer that I love is representing the interests of the witness and has already done much to help out and is doing it all for the fee of $1.00.
It was, however, payable in advance. So, he's still a bloodthirsty shark - just a cheap one.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Come on, Belle, you know you love me, too. I'm just as good a guy as that other attorney, and I'm much better looking.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
*pat pats LawGuy*
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I'm all about Albus. His last name isn't Dumbledore but he seems to be reasonable.
[ April 22, 2004, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I want to go back to Germany...
Too bad the exchange rate and flights are so sucky right now. Not that I could right now, anyway.
*saving pennies for Jerusalem - must remember to not get any more speeding tickets*
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
U of Law Guy you might be better looking - I wouldn't know I've never seen this lawyer - BUT, are you a former assistant state attorney general with enough political clout and experience to be able to make a phone call and say "STOP" and people do it?
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Where are you from law Guy? I guess I can only compensate for offending you by actually getting to know a lawyer...see what they're really lke.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
Belle, sorry, no clout at all. I'm what they call a "baby lawyer." Practically at the bottom of the totem pole.
A of D, you didn't offend me. Any attorney thin-skinned enough to get upset at every lawyer joke wouldn't last long. I was being facetious. And, to answer your question, I'm in Las Vegas.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
(((((((Kat)))))))
Hobbes Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I love lawyers in shining armor. Few and far between, but there's nobody better to have on your side when fighting the good fight.
to UoULG, Dagonee, Belle's friend, and the other Good Guys
(BTW, my money's on Kat. )
[ April 22, 2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Altįriėl of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
^.~ I'm in San Diego. 17, girl, straight, mexican. *extends hand* Nice to meet you.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I wrote to Albus and sent him a pdf copy of all the paperwork that I had. What I didn't have was a copy of the letter of refusal from the insurance company, but I gave the name of the woman in Germany who has that. It looks like something is happening. He's going to talk to her immediately and then give me a sizeup of the story.
I really like this guy. He wants to look at the case and files before telling me what my chances are and how much it will cost, which is much, much better than the "Give me a kajillion dollars to look at your file" people. Yay!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Good, katharina.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Sounds great! Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
yeay!!!!
AJ
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Update. Albus is talking to the lady in Germany who was helping me before, and she is looking for the letter from the insurance company refusing to pay. He'll get back to me when she gets that to him.
He's been very professional and not condescending. This is great.
I also have a confession. *hangs head in shame* It seemed like such a boring, unpleasant, yet necessary thread that I felt I had to do something to make it mildly amusing. I'm afraid all names contained herein are made up. I'm sticking with Albus, though. He's getting more Dumbledorian with every e-mail.
Sorry about that. *shuffles feet* You were right, Law Guy. I didn't really think anyone actually believed it until I was talking about Albus last night and someone was so delighted he and Dumbledore had the same name.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
That's it. Ban her!
Not for making up the names, but for telling us about it. Ruins my faith in the German legal system.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I hate this whole thing. I was thinking along the lines of a threatening letter and my medical expenses. Is there is any way I can choose the Minimum Lawyer Package instead of the Deluxe Package?![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
to UoULG, Dagonee, Belle's friend, and the other Good Guys